Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This section is for presenting and reviewing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. You can read about many ideas that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe: a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles.
• Users should be aware that page is discussion oriented. Other users are free to express their own point of view and are not required to be neutral.
• If you decide not to take your suggestion to voting, please remove it from this page to avoid clutter.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• After new game updates, users are requested to allow time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Adding a New Suggestion

• Copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change, etc. Basically: What is it? and Is it new, or a change?
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past two days should be given a warning notice. This can be done by adding {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section, where date is the day the suggestion will be removed.
• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past week may be removed.
• If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the warning template please remove the {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section to show that there is still ongoing discussion.

This page is prone to breaking when the page gets too long, so sometimes suggestions still under discussion will be moved to the Overflow page, so the discussion can continue.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Compound Bow, Quiver/Arrow Bundle

Timestamp: Lucifer210 07:11, 5 April 2010 (BST)

Type: Weapon

Scope: Survivors

Description: A new ranged weapon for survivors a bow found in schools and mall sport shops. Base 5% accuracy, with damage 4 per hit. 15 arrows a pack, 3% encumberance per bow, 2% per pack. Due to bows and arrows being quiet projectiles, people hit by arrows will not be informed who shot them, due to the lack of gun smoke and lower sound output. PS. I'm open to disregarding the added effects of fired arrows EDIT: Also thought to include skill to improve accuracy. Basic Firearms Training (Prerequisit Only) Archery Training (+10% Accuracy) Advanced Archery Training (+25% Accuracy)

Discussion (Compound Bow, Quiver/Arrow Bundle)

Base 5% accuracy...does it ever improve? What does the math look like for damage/AP? —Aichon— 09:11, 5 April 2010 (BST)

I was under the impression that weapons and new skills had to be made under seperate suggestions --Lucifer210 04:29, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Ok, time for some quick math here. Let's assume that you have one Pistol and I have one Compound Bow, and that we each are loaded up with ammo. You'll be able to make 43 Pistol shots and would have to reload 7 times with your 50 AP for the day, yielding an average of 139.75dmg against a not Rotted/Jacketed target. I, on the other hand, would be able to take 47 arrow shots and would have to reload 3 times with my 50 AP for the day, yielding an average of 183.3dmg against the same type of target. Given those numbers, you would be doing 2.795dmg/AP on average, while I would be doing 3.66dmg/AP on average.

If we were to consider searches as well, the Pistol is currently the most AP-efficient weapon in the game since it has multiple shots per clip and clips are decently easy to find, and this thing absolutely blows it away, since you need less searches, yet hit for harder and have to reload less often. But to quickly show the math, it takes an average of 8 searches right now to find one clip, so we'll assume it would have taken you 64 searches to find the clips you used earlier (there was one loaded in the gun already). Likewise, if we assume 8 searches per clip of arrows/bolts, I'd need just 32 searches. So, if we add the AP we spent before onto the AP for searches, that means that you'd actually need 114 AP on average to deal 139.75dmg, for an efficiency of 1.226dmg/AP, whereas I would need just 82 AP to reach my 183.3dmg for an efficiency of 2.234dmg/AP. Basically, the Compound Bow would be the new best weapon in the game BY FAR. I could average about two kills every day with the thing, even with searches and misses taken into account. —Aichon— 21:29, 6 April 2010 (BST)

In regards of search rates, you have to consider the places where the bow and the arrows pops up. In Mall Sports Stores one would need to go through a lot of fencing foils and other bummer weapons if the bow has an equal chance to pop up, while schools generally have low finding rates. (Not that this minor point helps the suggestion much as it is now.) --Spiderzed 13:19, 7 April 2010 (BST)

That's why I just made some generic assumptions regarding the search rates for ease of highlighting the disparity between the weapons. There are also other issues at play, such as finding pre-loaded weapons and the like. In truth, he probably needs to provide them himself in order to make the suggestion complete anyway, but for now, I just supplied some stand-in numbers of my own. —Aichon— 15:27, 7 April 2010 (BST)

(Zerging) griefers dream. Create a scout alt, get him a bow plus hundreds of arrows, find your victim and let the "fun" begin. Sure, it will prolly take some time/ap due to low accuracy but who cares? The victim has no chance of actively finding out who's targetting him so the griefer has all the time in the world.--Trevor Wrist 12:14, 5 April 2010 (BST)

It can actually be done quicker. Use a pistol to weaken the target rapidly to its last HPs, and then finish the job with the bow. My bounty-sensitive death-cultist would totally do that to ensure that he doesn't get reported. And then report the victim if it dares to retaliate without covering its tracks like me. It's similar to para-chuting and even simpler to use as it doesn't rely on being infected, so expect to see a lot of that if a ninja bow gets implemented. --Spiderzed 12:23, 5 April 2010 (BST)

"(Zerging) griefers dream." Hardly. Zergers don't care about their characters' safety: they just create more, and so have no need for the stealth the bow offers. Firefighter + axe would still be vastly more effective than scout + bow. As it currently stands it would take years with a starting character to get lucky enough to kill someone with a bow at 50AP/day (remember those things called FAKs that people grab when they get injured?), and if you are zerging for more AP then firefighters would work much better! And Spiderzed, most PKers enjoy taunting their victims and bystanders. Removing the risk removes the fun! I imagine this would mostly be used by Bounty Hunters and do-gooders who don't want to damage their good name. --Anotherpongo 14:37, 5 April 2010 (BST)

PKers might, and PKers might also want the bragging rights of having a bounty. My death-cultist won't. He's more interested into keeping a low profile RG-wise, to a.) keep being CRed and eating syringes on RPs and b.) be able to put dumbass trenchies on the RG who are stupid enough to shoot someone for GKing, para-chuting and other lesser crimes. --Spiderzed 14:49, 5 April 2010 (BST)

Is that really a problem? I think alternative playstyles should be encouraged to keep the game interesting. --Anotherpongo 15:52, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Oh, don't get me wrong, as a passionate death-cultist I'd _totally_ dig a weapon that allows me to kill anonymously and taunt the victim to lure it on the RG. It's just that I can imagine enough haters who'd outcry at the prospect of that. --Spiderzed 16:28, 6 April 2010 (BST)

I've done a bit of archery, and yes, bows are quiet. But even the compact compound bows make a noise when you let go, if not as loud as a gun, and it's easy to tell when someone is shooting at you, or anyone else. --Enigma^talk 14:17, 5 April 2010 (BST)

A bow is however certainly more stealthy than a gun, which the suggestor is trying to reflect. --Anotherpongo 14:37, 5 April 2010 (BST)

I also said I would be open to dropping the 'silent kill' part --Lucifer210 04:29, 6 April 2010 (BST)

The author hasn't mentioned whether the kill message will appear, only the hit message. I suggest adding what skills would affect it. Possibly +10% from Body Building, in addition to a new line of Archery skills? I like the idea of exchanging accuracy for stealth, but you might want to add some limitations. --Anotherpongo 14:37, 5 April 2010 (BST)

Originally, neither the hit or kill messages would show up, except for "you were shot for 4 damage" & "You are dead". Now I would disregard anything related to stealth. --Lucifer210 10:30, 7 April 2010 (BST)

I support this idea also the sond you may hear from a bow is the string so txt could be

• You hear the thump of a bowsting nearby* but instead you shoud make it with 2 damage and injure the person until a FAK or remove the arrow for -3 health (the arrow will act like an infection to the zed) this would be logical and coming back from where zeds can infect you-scvideoking 17:59, 5 April 2010 (BST)

If Thumping Bowstings is not already a band, it should be. 22:28, 5 April 2010 (BST)

This sucks. I'm tired. That is all. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:13, 5 April 2010 (BST)

so you're saying that (in theory) you can hold 15 arrows to attack? at 4 damage per succesful hit at 5%, a little general math tells me that it is a bit overpowered damagewise. possibly getting rid of the advanced skill for this could balance it out a bit, and possiblt lowering the quiver size too. but still, this is a great idea, and i like it. --Jack Kolt ^Talk|Chars 04:53, 6 April 2010 (BST)

How would firearms training affect bows? While it doesn't matter to me it might matter the the more anally retentive among us. And 6 damage at 65% accuracy makes this better than the pistol if searching for ammo is ignored, but 15 arrows per quiver is excessive. --Anotherpongo 15:59, 6 April 2010 (BST)

With the invisibility, this is terribly overpowered (as stated above). Without it, you've got a 5% to hit, 4 damage weapon with 15 ammo. Assuming maxed hit% of 65%, it has more ammo than a pistol, but less damage. Not enough less damage, in my opinion.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 16:56, 6 April 2010 (BST)

It actually does more damage. Notice the +2 damage for Advanced Archery Training. It'll do 6 to the Pistol's 5. —Aichon— 21:11, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Extremely stupid. Didn't notice that. It should be about 2.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:52, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Okay, so if I were to use the bow as my primary weapon and I had all skills I would now wield a weapon with an average damage per AP of 3.6 per shot, a clip size of 15, and 65% accuracy? Even without that damning overpower its encumbrance to ammunition ratio is way too low. Example: I carry a standard emergency supply kit that is roughly 10% of my total encumbrance, if I devote the remaining 90 percent to pistols and I do it for combat I will carry 4 pistols and 37 clips. That totals to about 246 shots. If I replace the pistols with one bow (with a clip size of 15 and a damage of six reloading isn't going to be a worry) and the clips with quivers I can now carry 44 quivers. 44*15=660 shots before I have to restock. Do you see the problem? -Devorac 23:07, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Taking this in to extended maths, this would be easier to search for as well, because you get 15 shots from one successful search.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:11, 6 April 2010 (BST)

See the math I added to my initial comment on this suggestion. This weapon is almost twice as good as the Pistol. —Aichon— 23:40, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Right, since you people apparently can't let this die I suppose I'll have to deal with it. Now, form what I can see the following jumps out at me:

• Stealth weaponry? Why don't you just call it the death cultist special and have done with it?
• Maths. Aichon has made with the numbers and it's just overpowered. It's going to fail voting for this reason.
• Location. Where do you find these things and the ammo? I feel my response to this answer is going to begin with the letters 'D', 'S' and 'R'.
• Why? What's the flavour? How common are these in genre? What is the reason to spend time programming them into the game? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:55, 7 April 2010 (BST)

Regarding location, the suggestion description says Mall Sports Stores and Schools, so diluted search rates won't be as bad as they typically are for these new weapons. It's one of the considerations I actually like about this suggestion. —Aichon— 05:13, 7 April 2010 (BST)

OK, after reading generally negative responses for my suggestion I have decided that 'Basic Firearms Training' would not affect the bow, and only be a prerequisit skill, and 10 arrows a quiver. Would someone kindly do the new math due to these changes. --Lucifer210 10:30, 7 April 2010 (BST)

Might want to change the suggestion to say 10 arrows per quiver. Anyway, I'll be nice and do the math for you one last time, but you have to do it from here on. Given that it only has 10 arrows per quiver and now does 4 damage per shot, you'd be able to get in 46 shots with 4 reloads, for 73.6dmg, or 1.472dmg/AP before searches are considered. With searches considered, you would need 40AP to find the quivers, for a total of 90AP, yielding 0.817dmg/AP, making it, in my opinion, a virtually worthless weapon. It doesn't have burst damage (like the Shotgun), AP efficiency (like the Pistol), or a nice balance in between. —Aichon— 11:04, 7 April 2010 (BST)

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Manufacturing Syringes? (this is a discussion)

Timestamp: --         13:29, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Type: PRE-DISCUSSION TO SUGGESTION

Scope: Experts on Balance

Description: I'll be forthright- this isn't a suggestion per se. I have an idea which needs a fair bit of balance speculation, explaining and background, and it revolves the Syringe and its manufacturing capabilities. You can manufacture a syringe for 20ap, I know this. I have a few questions. Do any of you actually do this? If so, how come? I can easily find 5 syringes in that amount of AP. Why do you think this option was added to the game, even though it is so AP impractical? (in my opinion, which may be totally wrong) And as such, does this serve any strategic worth? I'd just like a good old discussion into the usefulness of this mechanism for a future suggestion. Please, be as abusive and honest as you want. --         13:29, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Discussion (Manufacturing Syringes? (this is a discussion))

It's a pro-survivor dead alt option. If you're working up to the IP limit instead of playing the odds and taking the time to play the RNG (such a cruel mistress, reminds me of Fiffy ;) ) it's quicker to hit a single button to guarantee a syringe for future play. My pro-survivor characters regularly use this mechanism to slowly stock up on needles when I'm not using them. This use is why this action alone counts for multiple IP hits in the game when other multiple AP actions don't. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:46, 4 April 2010 (BST)

But instead of pay the 20IP hits for one syringe, wouldn't it be more efficient to spend 20AP getting 4 or 5, and then not have to access that account for 2 days and have more IP hits for your other alts? --

 

 

 

 

13:58, 4 April 2010 (BST)

It would (and is) on a numbers basis, but not on an effort basis. Say I 'run' four alts on 160IP hits everyday. I've played my pro-survivor, my death cultist and my feral for a few months, now I'm tired of them and decide to have a change. So I switch to death cultist, feral and PKer, but I still want to restock on my pro-survivor, according to this game I just play him last. I take 50 IP hits for each of the character I actually use, giving me 10 or less hits with my pro-survivor that needs needles (the most important resource a survivor can have). I sit him in a green suburb out of the way in an NT building and use 9 of those IP hits to search for needles, the last one uses 20AP (which is worthless to me because I can't spend his AP while running my other characters due to the IP limit) to guarantee a needle. I can quite happily play all my other characters while my pro-survivor slowly recharges. Even with 1 IP hit per day, in the powered building he can guarantee a 100% rate on getting a syringe, which you can't on a character just searching. In less than two months of playing other characters he can be full of syringes by manufacturing one a day. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 14:10, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Fair enough. I'm trying to magically conjure up a game implementation in my head, which somehow makes a newish syringe similar to the one of old which gave newb zombies a free lunch (but unlike old one it still requires 10AP or so and would only offer a temporary free lunch before the survivor dropped as a reviving body), and needs to be deliberately made as opposed to the modern-day syringe which would just be randomly searched as standard). It needs a lot of thought and tweaking so I'm just going for some background info etc. --

 

 

 

 

14:16, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Make the MK I open to manufacture, still at 1AP per revive and only usable outside. It might make the survivors communicate for once. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 14:25, 4 April 2010 (BST)

More or less. (i lold when the words "solar powered syringes" entered my mind for flavour) It might end up being buttered down for both sides, ie. more AP to use, but the user is only out on the street in metamorphosis (but of which he is for all gameplay purposes a survivor) before dropping as a body, to give zombies the random opportunity for some XP. Might be 10 minutes to 30 minutes, maybe an hour, in which the human is free to stand up at any time in that period and just walk off. Still thinking it through. --

 

 

 

 

14:31, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Actually no, your idea is much simpler and potentially better, but I think for people to actually use that type of syringe, they'd have to be cheaper to manufacture so they aren't just used by one niche type of player. --

 

 

 

 

14:36, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Give them an option to manufacture the obsolete syringe, charge 5AP a revive and stand them for 6 hours. That's fair. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 14:40, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Yeah. I know it's overly complicated, but I like the "drop down after standing for X amount of time" because it helps newbies of both sides: it gives newb zeds a free lunch, but if a newb survivor manages to log in before the (lets say for now) 6 hours is up, they are free to just walk away? On the flipside, that's also why it's probably better to make it a smaller time than 6 hours, they spend less time as a target but there is a larger chance they will have to pay by standing back up, potentially crappy without ankle grab. Either ways, you've given me a lot of good shit to think about for now. Thanks. --

 

 

 

 

14:46, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Actually (and I know you're surprised by this) my idea is superior. At 20AP per manufacture and 5AP per revive it's more than half a day's AP to ensure an easy and effortless revive, it allows idiot survivors to keep a suburb green easily. On the other hand, a quarter of a day standing makes this useless in contested suburb and gives zombies an actual reason to enter green suburbs as ferals and stand a chance of doing something other than chip away at impossibly high barricades. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 14:53, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Even more interesting... I emphatically agree with everything except I still think the cost is too high to be accessible to anything except the "demographic" you cited in the original response above... Your opinions on 10AP? Also, what do you think: revived with 30HP, no matter how much damage a survivor takes, if he's still alive after the 6 hours, he falls to the ground and stands back up with 30HP again? not really a "free heal" imo, plus the zeds still got the XP for the original slashing... hmmm. --

 

 

 

 

15:04, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Assuming you're sticking to the 5AP to stick in my previous reply it still puts it at 15AP per revive plus travel time, too cheap in my opinion. This should be be part of the survivor method of banking AP, i.e. there's a time to spend the AP to make these and potentially a different time to use this. Making it on a par with regular revives in cost and removing the fickle nature of the RNG makes 'green times' and green suburbs significantly easier, the point of this is to ease the immediate cost of pushing the revive button by combining the current expense of the manufacture with the stand mechanic. I have no issue with the stand with 30, drop and rise again with 30 that you propose, I'd defend it with the continuous effect of revivification in flavour. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 15:58, 4 April 2010 (BST)

I'm going on holiday tomorrow. I use the last ap of my characters to Manufacture a syringe, or Repair a massively ruined building. I'm not going to be around whilst Im in Negative ap, so its the best use of my alts. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:01, 4 April 2010 (BST)

I never use the manufacturing option and I don't think most players do. Everyone probably used it a couple of times as a newb and it seemed more guaranteed than searching, or in rare instances as mentioned above. It's pretty useless imo.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 13:03, 7 April 2010 (BST)

I use it when I don't have time to play, am going away or have used most of my IP on other characters... pretty much what has already been said really. I do think manufactured syringes need to be different from found ones in some way though.... maybe curing infection or something, its been shot down in the past tho. --Honestmistake 16:47, 8 April 2010 (BST)

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Lets smash the place up!

Timestamp: RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 12:11, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Type: Ruin Alteration

Scope: Zombies and stuff.

Description: Ruining a building automatically destroys all improvements to the building. This means not only decorations, but gennies, transmitters and internal graffiti as well. This does not alter the ability to place such items in already ruined structures, which would be foolish, and in the case of Dark Buildings make them unrepairable. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 12:11, 3 April 2010 (BST) Note Such a ruin action would not gain you the xp you would otherwise gain by smashing a generator separately. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 15:35, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Discussion (Lets smash the place up!)

Why no additional xp gain for the generator? This would be depriving zombs of a little bit of xp right? Other than that I like the idea though.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 17:08, 3 April 2010 (BST)

I think it's because you're already doing X amount of achieved damage with 1AP (the cost to ruin), so stacking all that XP gain shouldn't be possible unless you do it manually. Honestly, I wouldn't vote kill on this if it had stacked AP, but it is more balanced that way. --

 

 

 

 

17:31, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Its a trade. If I get into a Hospital or an NT its a good bet I want to wipe out the genny ASAP. Especially if I'm a rotter. What this suggestion was intended to do (Doesn't mean that's what will happen) Was skew Ruin effecieny slighlty towards zombies. At the minute what I can do with ransack for 6ap takes a survivor less to repair (unless 5 days have passed.) Taking out a genny shifts the balance the other way (especially if you factor in search costs). Plus it might encourage people to not just dump gennies in empty buildings, or maybe defend darks differently. I'm sure Iscariot can come up with a malevolent use for it. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:16, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Not off the top of my head. It doesn't really impact pinatas, given the high cades and ruin block all entry negating any benefit from the generator, so it doesn't give an immediate malevolent effect to death cultists. It doesn't harm newbies and their experience track as you need Ransack in order to gain XP from smashing decorations. It's a limited ability, meaning that you'd still need to purchase Ransack to gain the effect or else you'd have to break the generator and other fixtures the old fashioned way. It's not even going to affect the ability of survivors to retake a building as even if they drop a generator in a zombie occupied building there's no way for the zombies to 're-ruin' the building so they're forced to hit it to remove it. The thing I find most preferable is the removal of all the crap in one button press, currently a building that has ten skulls requires ten AP to smash them all, even though it only takes six AP to do the same thing to the entire building. I always hated that bias in favour of survivor interior designers. I shall have a think if there's a potential evil use for this, if I don't find it amusing I'll tell you if I think of one. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 18:27, 3 April 2010 (BST)

<Cyrus>I can dig it</Cyrus> 20:22, 3 April 2010 (BST)

As Iscariot points out, it would take 11 AP to destroy those 10 skulls and ruin the building. Throw in another 5 (minimum) for a generator and 5 (minimum) for a transmitter. That is 21 AP worth of attacks/damage all for 1 AP. One offset is that the zombie is getting only 1 the 1 XP for it (for the ruin) instead of the full 21 for destroying everything. But I don't think that is much of an offset considering that a lot of zombies don't care about XP (for whatever reasons). I don't have a problem with ruin destroying all the decorations. That makes sense. But generators and/or transmitters? That is overpowered. Maybe instead, ruin does significant damage to them. There are 6 "stages" (undamaged, dented, bettered, damaged, badly damaged, destroyed). So maybe ransack does, say 2 levels of damage to them. Thus is if the generator was 'damaged' it would be desroyed. But if it was only 'dented', it would become 'badly damaged'.--Pesatyel 22:38, 4 April 2010 (BST)

That's a pretty bizarre way of looking at it. It takes me 6ap to ruin a building. 5 ransacks and 1 ruin. For those 6ap I get 1 xp, as you only get 1xp for the first ransack. A survivor can repair said damage for 1ap and gets 1xp. As for the 21ap example listed above how often would that happen? From my experience the only buildings with large collections of useless decorations are survivor strongholds and well manned TRP's - I.e. the very buildings that are hardly ever ruined. In the vast majority of cases (Powered, non radio, no decorations), those 6ap would result in ruination and generator destruction for 1xp, as opposed to the current situation of (Minimum) 13ap for 6xp gain. You save 5ap, you lose 5xp--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 00:58, 5 April 2010 (BST)

Well my example (10 skulls) was built off Iscariot's point and sort of worst case. When it said ruin, I applied ONLY the AP to ruin, not ransack also, so change my example to 26 to destroy everthing. How often would it happen is irrelevant. The fact is it CAN happen. The more stuff in there, the more AP you save. Discounting decorations as irrelevant (I already said I agree that ransack/ruin should destroy them all), it would require, normally, 16 AP to destroy both the radio and generator and ruin the building. Here you are saving a minimum of TEN AP. There are 3 things your forgetting:

1) It is a minimum of 5 AP to destroy each generator and radio. More likely 7 or even 8 for each. In fact, there is the potential to waste 50 AP trying to destroy a generator and NOT destroying it. This way, your guaranteed to do it with only 6 AP. Less in a coordinated effort. You could conceivably do it it all for 1 AP.

2) The zombies most likely to use this won't care about XP. Losing 10 XP for not manually destroying the radio and generator is nothing to someone who doesn't NEED XP. That isn't, of course, to say that still leveling zombies wouldn't use it but frequently you gotta get the XP where you can.

3) Just because the "majority of cases" are generator only (no radio) doesn't mean you can ignore those case that DO have radios.

So, simply put, ignore any XP points of the idea and see what you have. I can see the point of this offsetting the fact that a badly damaged generator (and radio) can be fully repaired with 3 AP (1 for the radio, 1 for generator, 1 to refuel). That is overpowered in itself too, but not really the subject of this suggestion. But what about the other affects of ruin relative to the affects of the generator?--Pesatyel 07:35, 5 April 2010 (BST)

You mean like degradation? For example ruin destroys decoration and internal graffiti, and then for every day ruined as well as the ap cost going up by one, the damage level of gennies and transmitters also increases by one? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:32, 5 April 2010 (BST)

Well I never had a problem with generators being damaged. I just though "destroy" was overpowered. It DOES make sense that the generator (and radio) would be damaged in a ransack. Degradation applied to the generator after a ruin isn't a bad idea.--Pesatyel 05:13, 6 April 2010 (BST)

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New Weapons

Timestamp: Attila the Hunny 21:12, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Type: machete and cast iron skillet

Scope: survivors

Description: Can a machete and a cast iron skillet be added to our weapons, please?

Discussion (New Weapons)

No. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:44, 2 April 2010 (BST)

And, to add to why "no", the game already has 10 weapons nobody uses, except for flavor purposes. Do we really need a full dozen?--Pesatyel 22:07, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Thats not really how developing suggestions work. You tell us the idea and then we tell you how its flawed. Whats the damage, accuracy, and weight of these weapons? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:16, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Yes, they can be added to the game just as soon as you describe how they work in detail (as per Ross' comment), you put it up for voting as a suggestion, it gets approved by wiki users, it gets noticed by Kevan, Kevan is feeling like adding new flavor, and he does so. Otherwise, see what Iscariot said. —Aichon— 05:33, 3 April 2010 (BST)

NONONO ahem, what I meant to say was, a machete is like a katana. trenchies like those things waay to much, and (machetes) seem to feel a bit to over-the top for a survival game. Also, is this the same skillet that you can use as a melee weapon in L4D2? --Jack Kolt ^Talk|Chars 02:55, 4 April 2010 (BST)

I never understood the whining about "trenchies". If a katana WERE to be added...who cares? Unless, of course, the weapon were overpowered, but THAT goes without saying. As for the machete, it is VERY common in zombie genre, L4D2 being irrelevant in this circumstance. Ever read the Zombie Survival Guide?--Pesatyel 22:07, 4 April 2010 (BST)

How many Englishmen do you know with machetes on hand? 22:10, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Actually, I once encountered a nifty lil' thing called a garden knife in my local Canadian Tire (I know, I'm not English)... and I know they called it that, but it was obviously a machete. Don't see why something like that couldn't be in Britain. But from a pragmatic point of view, this suggestion as it is right now is worthless. There are no details, and these are two weapons which would probably not serve a purpose even if they were put in.--Enigma^talk 14:09, 5 April 2010 (BST)

to answer pesatyel's question, i did read the zombie survival guide. Rule #1: Blades don't need reloading! touché, pesatyel. --Jack Kolt ^Talk|Chars 04:58, 6 April 2010 (BST)

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Machine Gun turrets

Timestamp: Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 20:42, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Type: Overpowered

Scope: Newbs

Description: I've seen this idea before, and I'm sure it's unbalanced! But wait! Done a preliminary search, and couldn't find this exact thing. And I've taken a crack at balancing this. The Idea There are now Machine Gun turrets outside the gatehouses of forts. Obviously, you can only operate them if the gatehouse is powered and unruined. Now, for the crazy balancing part. Crazy Balancing Part? My Machine Gun Turret always has a 65% chance to hit, even for newbs. No skills effect this whatsoever. It deals 10 damage, or eight with a flak or flesh rot. Hence, this is as good as a fully powered shotgun. Except it's stuck in one place, outside, and needs to be powered. So, Yonnua, you're telling us this suggestion is useless? No! It just doesn't effect fully levelled survivors. Since it's only usable outside, it doesn't really effect the zombies. Who does that leave? The Newbie survivors, of course! Now, they have a very easy way to level up, if they go to a specific place and stuff. Zombies need a boost first! Well, that really has nothing to do with this, as this doesn't effect zombies. If you really care, I'm working on something similar for zombies. Perhaps a balanced rehash of Boxy's old rocket launcher suggestion? Input Now it's YOUR turn!

Discussion (Machine Gun turrets)

Yes, I would vote for it--^TCAPD(╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ 20:45, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Have you ever participated in a fort siege as a zambah? I have, and one gets already headshot enough by the various Lvl41 trenchies (who wouldn't need the experience, so there's not even that excuse). To bolster that by handing them a free, permanent shotgun without any need for searching, reloading or encumbrance would make matters even worse. Therefore, I'd immediately spaminate this without further adieu. --Spiderzed 21:00, 2 April 2010 (BST)

^That. 21:58, 2 April 2010 (BST)

And shooting zombies outside suddenly makes a difference because...?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:10, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Oh, and while I'm at it, I'd be open to making this require ammo. It would just be a matter of clips v shells, and how many it can take.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:15, 2 April 2010 (BST)

It plainly annoys the hell out of zombie players, as it forces them to spend 5 extra AP to spring again into action, and is made even more annoying by the fact that is tactically pointless (AP to shoot a zombie vs AP for the zombie to stand up again etc.), and thus grieving for grieving's sake. If you want to adress that practice, make the machine gun unattractive for experienced trenchies by providing a.) a lower accuracy than with a maxed out marksman, and b.) making it ineligible for headshots. That would yet help new survivors, while at the same time not encourage trenchies to pointlessly headshot zombies outside. --Spiderzed 23:18, 2 April 2010 (BST)

This makes sense, since aiming for a precise headshot with a large-calibre automatic weapon would be pretty damn difficult. 23:57, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Sorry, I forgot about headshot. Naturally, that would be stupid, so this shouldn't effect headshot. How about 50% accuracy?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 16:00, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Dupe. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:04, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Link me.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:10, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Terrifyingly, I kind of remember it. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:20, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Im not really trying, but 2006, See Funt's comment and 2007, See Grim's Comment and 2008, see Funt's comment again.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:31, 2 April 2010 (BST)

2006: The Gun was in the armoury, which is inside the fort. Mine is a massive difference in that it's outside the boundaries of the fort, and is outside the gatehouse. 2007: Portable turrets. This is a fixed turret. 2008: Portable. Most of the comments on the 2008 one actually illustrate my point that shooting outside is useless, and so this would really only help newbies. I feel I've distinguished this enough from the dupes; do you have any ideas about balancing this further (I did what I could in five minutes before lost), or are we gonna call this dead in the water?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:41, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Personally I think its Chrissie Watkins, but go ahead and tweak it if you feel you can make it work. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:47, 2 April 2010 (BST)

My general idea at the moment is suggesting things which are totally insane in an attempt to use DS as an actual medium for balancing suggestions, because most suggestions here either stay exactly as they are or don't go to vote at all. I deliberately started with something unworkable. :P --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:50, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Before Iscariot burns me at the stake, I actually do intend to take this to vote if it becomes balanced.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:51, 2 April 2010 (BST)

It would be harder afterwards. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:52, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Are you quite sure you want to put yourself through this kind of abuse? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 15:52, 3 April 2010 (BST)

The likely net result would simply be that zombies wouldn't log out in the square outside the gatehouse. Which is actually kind of cool, because then the zombies (and anybody who comes outside to use the gun) would know how many zombies were actively attacking at any moment. I can see a few ways to help make this balanced enough that I;d support it. First, to attack with the MG, you have to go to the armory and construct a link belt for 10 AP; the armory needs to be powered for you to do this, since you can't work in the dark (Armories are one of the dark building types). This grants 1 xp. That makes it slightly useful, but not much so. The link belt takes up 20% encumbrance, and has a 20% chance of being used up each time you make an attack with the MG. Second, hit or miss, no matter the target, you don't get any XP for using the MG. That might slightly discourage trenchies, assuming XP stacking is their motive. Third, it can be used to attack the barricades with the same effect as a melee weapon (so net 25% to do damage). That makes it fun for death cultists, even if there aren't any silly trenchies around to shoot with the MG.  :)  Swiers 01:49, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Let's give the survivors yet another way to gain XP without ever having to see a zombie(!) What a brilliant idea(!) Next up I'm suggesting knitting for XP. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 15:54, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Good point. OK, no XP at all. Really, I can live with the Headshotting and the trenchie factor, because the only folks getting headshotted by MGs would be those who AP out while standing in front of the gatehouse; any player with half a (rotted) brain would just step to another square before they run out of AP. Which makes perfect sense- the PURPOSE of a MG is to keep an area clear!
BTW, flamethrowers powered by fuel cans could work equally well, with no need for a new "ammo belt" object. Searching for fuel doesn't net any XP, so.... Swiers 01:29, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Of course you can live with the headshotting, you've been playing for a gazillion years and every character you own has Ankle Grab and every character you level has it earmarked as its fifth skill at the most. Go level a character by attacking at a fort gatehouse and tell me how tedious headshots get. Now add in a free weapon with increased accuracy and no encumbrance and see how long you'd stick around as a newbie zombie. Zombies should not be getting massive penalties for the basic default of actually attacking important survivor buildings. Even one square away from a fort a zombie is still likely to get headshot while he recharges AP, if he follows your ridiculous suggestion of stepping one square away he loses 15AP for the head shot and 4AP for moving (2 forward to attack and 2 to step away) as you suggest. Meaning that they're at a deficit of 19AP each and every day that they are attacking a fort full of trenchies. From 48AP a day to 29. At level one they need a fuckload of AP to take down even VSB cades at 17.5% success rate, sticking a free gun to damage zombies for precisely no benefit, this won't affect zombies inside so won't actually stop the metagaming horde is retarded. If you want to pass out a free upgrade to survivors in a fort, make transmitters like buildings in forts, subject to ruin and not destruction, meaning any survivor with a toolbox can restore communications in a fort. That is reasonable, big fucking guns for Matrix re-enactment purposes is not. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:06, 4 April 2010 (BST)

How would you feel about some kind of mechanism limiting the usage of this gun to when cades were below a certain point? E.g. Not at all. So, there are no doors to the gatehouse, but survivor A doesn't have any ammo. So, he goes outside, uses the gun, and wastes the AP of some of the zombies outside instead of attacking the ones inside the fort. It weakens them before they enter, but doesn't effect the overall attack power of the horde. It would need a flavour explanation, but would this be more satisfying in terms of balance?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:00, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Hmmmmm, no. Survivors already have a massive advantage in the walls of the damned forts, that were put in because they couldn't fucking hold them. Why should they get yet another boost when there are only four hordes in the entire game that can actually crack a fort? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 15:07, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Ok, I thought you were kidding, Yonnua, so I was ready to come in here and strongly approve with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek, but now it seems like you're actually halfway serious. As you already said, this suggestion is unworkable, and I'm inclined to agree. It may help survivors burn AP on a wasted proposition, but I don't believe in giving people more ways to undermine their own side's chances of victory, especially when it makes the game less fun for the other side. And that's exactly what this would do, since it is incredibly frustrating to find out that you've been headshot again by an idiot trenchie when you're sieging a fort. Sure, it was a waste of their AP, but that doesn't make it fun for you. That makes it annoying, and annoying is bad. —Aichon— 05:31, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Assuming you are serious I would (at the very least) want to see survivors making belts for the machine gun... 1AP and 10 pistol clips. Accuracy fixed at 50% and only getting 20 shots. Absolutely no chance of headshots is also a must. Oh and the turret should be ransackable as a separate entity.--Honestmistake 11:03, 3 April 2010 (BST)

You can't be serious with this. I'm reluctantly assuming you are, but am too tired to actually list the problems I have with your suggestion, so when I find myself back here tomorrow I'll give it a go. --

 

 

 

 

17:35, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Good, it'll save me doing it. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 18:13, 3 April 2010 (BST)

I'm more hoping to see DS used as it was actually intended, rather than have this particular idea implemented, so yes, please list as many faults as possible, preferrably with possible solutions. :) --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:25, 3 April 2010 (BST)

You do actually realise that Talk:Suggestions was never actually meant to be used in this way? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:45, 4 April 2010 (BST)

For developing suggestions? Thanks for clearing that up. ;) --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:00, 4 April 2010 (BST)

The name was changed without consultation by an incompetent sysop, if there had been any consultation we wouldn't have the shockingly bad grammar in the page name that we do now. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 15:04, 4 April 2010 (BST)

The best machine gun suggestion I've ever seen, but it's fundamentally flawed. If it helps survivors do anything (like get EXP, headshot zombies for less AP..etc), it will be an unwanted OP survivor buff. If it somehow helps zombies, it'll wind up being a fort nerf and zombie buff (which people probably won't be thrilled with). If it doesn't do much or anything well, then it basically becomes useless and will probably be shot down for having no impact. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:57, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Lelouch, hit me with one of your templates and I think we can bring this suggestion to a close. ;) --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:31, 4 April 2010 (BST)

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The Winter of our Discontent

Timestamp: Verance 18:38, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Type: Weather

Scope: Survivours and Zombies

Description: Malton has weather. It isn't updated by the day, but we know it snows sometime every winter. I would like to suggest that this winter, the month of January, be a particually nasty winter. I am proposing these changes for January. My idea revolves around a bad cold snap in the area of Malton, plunging the temperature into the negatives. The changes would be as such. The first part will focus on suggested survivor changes, the second on suggested zombie changes. Powered buildings: No changes so long as the generator keeps running. No changes in search rates or anything else. Unpowered buildings: Day 1: You are standing inside (building name). Frost is starting to form on the window. (follow with normal description, survivors, and so on. No change to searches or any other mechanics. Day 2: You are standing inside (building name). Frost has covered the window, and the room has gotten cold. (normal description). There would be a 5% reduction to searches in the building. Day 3:You are standing inside (building name). You are shivering in the cold. (normal description) 15% reduced search, and 5% reduced accuracy. Day 4 and beyond: You are standing inside (building name). Frost has covered the room, and you are shivering violently in the cold. (normal description). 30% reduced search, and 1 hp lost every half hour due to the temperature. Accuracy is decreased by 10% more. Ruins: A couple of assumptions. For the most part, ruins have the doors wide open and have been "damaged". This would exacerbate the cold in the building. Day 1: You are inside (building). Cold air is seeping in, and snow has blown in through the door. It is cold inside. No changes beyond a normal ruin Day 2: You are inside (building). You are shivering in the cold. Snow has piled in the room, and a layer of frost covers everything. +1 ap/day to to repair from this point per day. There is a 1 HP loss per half hour. -5% accuracy Day 4 (yes, 4) and beyond: You are inside (building). You are shivering violently from the cold. +1 additonal ap/day to repair from here on out. - 10% accuracy. The difference in ruins would be additional AP to repair and a HP loss from sleeping in the building. Outdoors: You are in (location) It is bitterly cold, with wind blowing snow everywhere. You shouldn't stay out for too long. The effects from the cold would be as follows: -15% accuracy outdoors. It is snowy and windy, and that would hinder attacks. There would also be a decreased search in the outdoors due to the weather (not that people search the streets for much, right?). Revives: Here is where I thought for a bit. People will still want to revive and be revived. I do not think a jog out into the weather and stabbing 3 or 4 or 5 people would make a big difference. Aside from the flavor of the weather, I don't propose a change. What I suggest is that for every day you are a body, it takes one more AP to stand up. If you stand up within 24 hours, it is still only 1 or 10 AP. January is 31 days days long, so if you are stabbed on January 1st and stand up on January 31st, it would be 31/41 ap to stand up. EDIT: The bodies freezing would apply to people becoming zombies as well. Indoor combat: I am working this from the following assumption: It is cold, the zombies are breaking at your door, and they have smashed in. You get to fight them. Have fun. You are standing inside (building). The cold air is seeping in through the open door. If the door is open more than it is closed for a day, the room becomes cold, and the survivour attack accuracy decreases. In multi-block rooms, a cold "corner" would tell you that cold is seeping from another corner of the building. If both corners are cold, there is no "seeping cold" message. Okay... fairly involved and became bigger than I thought it would. Now for zombie changes. Outdoors: Zombies can still follow footprints, but the wind carries moans 1.5 times as far. You would hear "The wind carries a (moan description) from (location). EDIT: ADDED AFTER DISCUSSION BEGAN - Blood: Blood on the cold ground, instead of drying, would freeze. This would create "Smears of frozen blood on the wall" and "trails of blood frozen on the floor" Attacks: I will admit I was thinking about the cold affecting zombies negatively, but I decided against that idea. I think it would be more challenging if the cold makes the arms "more solid" giving +2(1) damage to maul attacks. Once the zombies "warm up" by being in a warm building for 24 hours, their damage goes back to normal. That would mean the initial siege hits harder, but if survivors hold the inside warm, the zombies go back to normal damage. If the zombies break the defense and ruin the place, the zombies are guaranteed to win. Discussion point: I am thinking the gatehouse in Creedy could be an "outdoor" gatehouse, and Perryn would be an "indoor" gatehouse. This would cause a more challenging fort to hold for survivours, and a classic fort for survivours. I would like to discuss that before I place this suggestion for voting. Other ideas: If you have any other ideas relevant to the game and the cold you would like to see suggested, I would like to see it. This is a big suggestion, I admit, and a bit game-breaking in the differences it would cause. The January I propose to the community would favor zombies, and I think this should not be permanent, thus why I suggested it only affecting January. If the community so wishes, I would like to see this additional challenge to survivours on month every winter. Community... prime your pepper spray... *puts on anti-flame goggles*

Discussion (The Winter of our Discontent)

Mentally Huge. Scanning through, I'd say lose the HP loss. Lets not punish casual players, I like the frosting ideas and the reductions without power, likewise the ruin increase. If its freezing both damage and effort needed to repair would be increased. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:42, 1 April 2010 (BST)

As for zombie bonuses, I think being immune to all the other effects is good in itself. Perhaps a bonus for attacking survivors outside, as they are less able to defend themselves? Plus it teaches survivors to stay inside. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:44, 1 April 2010 (BST)

I agree with Ross. I also think that it would be interesting if lightning would flash during stormy weather and possibly damage the radio antennas. --TheBardofAwesome 19:29, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Well, thunderstorms are not a part of this suggestion. Anyway, Ross, regarding the weather and HP loss. If the genny runs out of fuel, it takes three days before the cold starts taking HP from the victim. I do agree that casual players might take a dent, but feel that three days before the HP loss would not be a big issue. Verance 21:58, 1 April 2010 (BST)

One massive, OP, survivor nerf. I was actually looking at this suggestion seriously until I realized how massively you were both hampering survivors and boosting zombies. One sided buffs=fail. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:14, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Looking at the fact I suggested boosting zombie damage, I do agree more with Ross saying I should just not affect zombies. It is true that the suggestion would more heavily affect survivors, but the important thing is that it would do so for a month only (it doesn't stay cold forever). I agree that this would be too much of a survivor nerf to stay for the rest of the game, but I would like to ask exactly what you perceive as being a too-large nerf. This is developing suggestions, after all. Verance 02:18, 2 April 2010 (BST)

The only way to counter it is with a generator?--Pesatyel 02:25, 2 April 2010 (BST)

My suggestion is that a running generator holds off the cold, yes. Verance 02:50, 2 April 2010 (BST)

What about clothing? A person's usual reaction to being cold is to cover up if they can.--Pesatyel 21:51, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Weather suggestions aplenty have been made. I know I personally made one that had effects for cold, hot, and stormy weather. Sure, none were just like this, but they all had the general theme that weather would affect game action percents, etc. Approved or not, none have been implemented. So... yeah.  Swiers 01:31, 3 April 2010 (BST)

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Revive Corpses

Timestamp: V darkstar 17:10, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Type: Gameplay Change

Scope: All

Description: I have waited a few days hoping that my team members would stand up so I could revive them so I thought that it would make since for a human revive a dead body since a zombie is just a walking dead guy. so for only 5 AP you can revive a dead body (because then aren't moving or trying to eat your brains it takes less effort.) Any help building up this is appreciated.

Discussion (Revive Corpses)

Lowering revive costs isn't going to be a good idea. Also, this kills anti-headshot measures. Zombies before sieges or strikes often maul each other to avoid the headshots, standing up to strike with 49 AP and not 46. For the low low cost of 5 AP a pop, survivors can avoid the zombies entirely, forcing unrotted zeds to choose between being AP ineffecient or being cheaply CRed at any time. It's unbalancing. 17:20, 1 April 2010 (BST)

How about if it was still 10AP?--V darkstar 17:21, 1 April 2010 (BST)

There's still the threat of combat revives at any time, though. It's generally not a balanced idea. It forces zombies to take brain rot, and cripples death cults, which I'm personally against since I run one. Also, flavour-wise, a corpse isn't a zombie. 99% of the genre would reflect this - even in Romero's "every death creates a zombie" world, there's the transitional period before they reanimate. 17:27, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Also you can't do anything to a corpse as such. Even feeding on one causes no effect to the player lying down. Why could you revive a body, and not heal it, or shoot it again? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:17, 1 April 2010 (BST)

As has been said this kinda screws up the whole "Shock and Graggh" tactic. Most of the danger in sieges (even at the small scale) comes in waves when dead zombies hit 50 AP and stand up again. Being able to spend five AP each to convert a downed zombie is way too easy, even ten would tip the balance to the humans. -Devorac 21:47, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Also, I'm pretty sure I came across something similar in rejected whilst I looked for dupes. And damaging corpses (or reviving them or whatever) just isn't a good idea; when you die, you die knowing that you have downtime, a period where you'll be safe from guns, axes, claws and bananas. --Enigma^talk 00:23, 2 April 2010 (BST)

NOTHING makes you safe from bananas!--Honestmistake 18:25, 2 April 2010 (BST)

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ganster 2.0

Timestamp: Richerd joshepson 01:49, 1 April 2010 (BST)user richerd joshepson 18:30, 31 March 2010

Type: new class

Scope: new players

Description: I tihk improve my last suggestion, my first laguage is spanish, asi que no se fijen en la escritura sino en la idea, maybe the class is overpowered, then, the new suggestion, shotgun, 2 shells and the shotgun training skill, the knife, pay 75 exp for militar skills, 75 exp for civlians skills. and 200 exp points for science skills, looks more balanced, or not? the convict class and punk class are not criminals,but the ganster class is a criminal class, this game is based in the imagination, anyone needs tell his part of the history, even the criminals.

Discussion (ganster 2.0)

Step 1: Make a survivor

Step 2: Edit his description

Step 3: ?

Step 4: Profit! Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:25, 1 April 2010 (BST)

How is a convict NOT a criminal? Even if you only consider "organized crime" as "real" criminals? Maybe I'm nitpicking. But there is NO logical reason to alter the experience points costs. What makes this class so special that the cost of skills wouldn't be the same as the other classes?--Pesatyel 05:15, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Why wouldn't you just be a cop? You start inside a police station and could get a shotgun very easily. Plus in the long run, the xp costs are much lower to level. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:31, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Alright. You know those nifty things called skill categories? And the three types of classes? Those are what you're going to have to base it off of. Your earlier logic stated that they know how to shoot, so they are good with guns, and they can act like civilians, so they get 75 xp for civilian skills. Logic flaw: You know who else is good at being a civilian? Civilians! They don't pay 75 xp for civilian skills. Just make it a civilian class that starts with a shotgun, at least. Then we can talk. --Enigma^talk 15:52, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Flavour-wise, Malton is quite English (also the game is from England). Traditional 'mafia' representations of gangsters don't really hold sway there. Look at films like Eastern Promises, The Krays, Get Carter or The Long Good Friday. To better represent the English 'gangster' you'd be looking at a cross between the Scout and Consumer classes, probably. Starts with a knife and a mobile phone, and the free running skill. Pays 100 XP for any skill, like civilians. Even that, that's going to be pretty damn strong, but at least a lot more flavoursome. 15:59, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Yeah I think there are enough classes already, and more classes won't add much to the game since class only affects lower level characters. If you want to play as a gangster just pick Civilian and edit your description. Also I think it would increase PKing.--V darkstar 17:16, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Why would that be a bad thing? -Devorac 06:58, 2 April 2010 (BST)

I was going to ask that earlier, but I was feeling lazy and cba. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 15:16, 2 April 2010 (BST)

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Deface (skill)

Timestamp: 14:57, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Type: New zombie skill

Scope: Zombies/Ruins

Description: Took a search, couldn't find anything matching this, but I'm still sure it's probably a dupe. But, I've been thinking about decay. It's a zombie's friend. It's also the friend of everyone who isn't pro-survivor, in various ways. But it's a very passive mechanic. This suggestion is a for a new zombie skill, a sub-skill of Ransack, named 'Deface' This skill will allow zombies to further tick up the decay count as follows - every 24 hours, when the decay count adds 1 AP to the repair cost of a ruin, it also resets an unseen 'deface flag'. If this flag is present, the building functions as a current ruin does. If it is absent, the building can be further ransacked - again, four 'ransacks' but with a 'deface' option replacing ruin, with everything involved functioning exactly as ruin does now, including the 1 XP granted for the initial ransack. Successfully defacing a building will add a further 1 AP to the building's repair cost and trip the 'deface flag', meaning the building cannot be further defaced until the decay tick occurs again. Essentially, the buidling can be decayed twice as fast, only it will require an active zombie presence and will involve more AP spent than it would cost to repair the building. However, this is still a bonus for those who can hold a ruin for a few days, further enhancing their grasp on territory. The flavour text of this will reflect the zombie causing the building to seem more charnel and well-trodden, as opposed to actually destroying things. The overall flavour is that of the 'smarter' zombies (ie, those with Memories and Ransack) coming to realise that property and shelter are important to the harmanz, and instinctively seeking to deny them access to these. Possible flavour text for the actions involved could include: You smear gore and filth across the walls, further defacing the building. You daub blood in familiar patterns across the floor, further defacing the building. You gouge and tear at what little fixtures remain, further defacing the building. Thoughts?

Discussion (Deface (skill))

There's something similar in the archives in regards to increasing repair costs from before the decay update.

The whole notion is pointless. You put AP in for a year, the repair cost is over 9000, it still doesn't cost me any more to reset that clock with a suicide repair. Anything over 50Ap to repair is pretty much pointless to the zombie side. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 17:47, 31 March 2010 (BST)

A 9K AP expenditure though would put that character out of action for more than half a year, how many players are willing to bite that bullet? -Devorac 18:44, 31 March 2010 (BST)

For the glory of leading the big ruin repair board forever? You'll find some. Also there's nothing to stop people asking friends who like to go for glory to create a character and join their group for that one event. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 18:52, 31 March 2010 (BST)

After a year it would only be 730, not 9000. 18:53, 31 March 2010 (BST)

The point is that over a number that allows them to cade or run back to cover, the total is pointless as the survivor accepts death to reset the clock and make it easy to retake the building. A better skill would be one that forces the survivors to do it in 50AP blocks, making them die lots of time knock the total down. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 18:57, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Numbers that high are liable to lead to characters being abandoned to this purpose, though - 700 AP is a full two weeks of being unable to do anything, and that'd only be for one building. 19:09, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Just so you know, my Knight is currently in the SW looking for anything over 130 to repair, if you can make me a 700 AP one I'll be your bestest friend ever. Two weeks of downtime is over in two weeks, glory is forever. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 19:12, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Suicide Repairs are rubbish at the minute. The 404 remnants spent ages looking through the ghost towns, but their all safe, stupid wiki. North Blythville Wasn't Bad, but its just darks at the minute. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:12, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Yeah, I know. It sucks. Perhaps we should set up a reporting facility where trenchie and other survivor groups that don't like being down for a week can tell us about the juicy high repair values. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:22, 1 April 2010 (BST)

I've been toying with the idea for a while, some kind of central page for idiots. I can name at least 6 suburbs with no organised survivors, which stay ruined long after the mob passes through. I did go through a period of like a month with 404 where we tried to get several survivor groups to alter their "Area of Operations" So they meshed and overlapped. Likewise suggesting new survivor groups tried to set up in areas of high trp/medium zombie numbers. You can imagine how that went. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:52, 1 April 2010 (BST)

I like it. It's a zombie counterpart to barricades that doesn't upset AP balance for survivors. My zombie character would love the chance to have a whole new level of destruction to unleash on buildings now that he's maxed out; my survivor character enjoys having more challenge and prestige from the lowly repair-work he does. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:10, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Survivors should only be able to repair in blocks of upto 50AP, anything more to fix should only be "tidied" up (reduce the decay status) If that gets implemented then this would be a fine addition.... as is its pretty much a pointless zombie AP sink! --Honestmistake 23:11, 31 March 2010 (BST)

You might want to include a limit of some kind.--Pesatyel 05:16, 1 April 2010 (BST)

*raises hand to volunteer for a 9000ap repair* --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:33, 1 April 2010 (BST)

See? I told you there'd be volunteers. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 11:58, 1 April 2010 (BST)

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New class: Ganster

Timestamp: User:Richerd joshepson/Sig 06:34, 30 March 2010 (BST)

Type: New class

Scope:New players and old players who needs more variarity

Description:In this incredible game, you can decide be a survivor or a zombie, if you choose be a survivor, you can be a militar, a scientist or a civil, the civils are Doctors, Police officers, Firefighters and Consumers, everyone fighting for they own life, but, how do the criminals to survive the outbreak, or theres no crime in the city of malton? As a ganster, you starts with shotgun training skill, a shotgun an spare ammo(4 or 6 shells) and a knife or a melee weapon and the hand to hand combat skill(a real ganster should be better equiped) and you pay 75 exp points for civilians skill and military skills(the gansters knows who attack like soldiers and act like normal people) and 150 exp points for scientist skills, obviously, they are not the smarter guys of the town, and the startup message could be You are in a job, there is a dead body near you,the job is not very nice, but it gives some money, then, there are a lot of activity, shots, screams, cops and soldiers everywhere, you think, maybe a gang war, but,the body in the room rises, he tries to attack you, you run out of the building, and you dicover a ten thousands worser scene, zombies, with blood in their mouths and your patners are dead in a crash car, you take a weapon from the car, you leave the block, running for the city, at least, you find a safe place,then you think, if the hell exists, it moves to malton. or a shorter version of that. Notes If someday includes machine-guns in the game, this class can starts with that weapon. the shotgun training skill can be swapped for tha basic firearm training skill.

Discussion (New Class: Gangster)

Emm... use the proper format first off, and gangsters are way overpowered, if they start with 4 shells, a shotgun, 2 skills, and only pay 75 xp for all but 7 of the skills in this game. --Enigma^talk 04:51, 31 March 2010 (BST)

I fixed it.-Pesatyel 05:39, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Actually you got the discussion header wrong, but it's all good now. -Devorac 06:56, 31 March 2010 (BST)

D'oh!--Pesatyel 04:56, 1 April 2010 (BST)

We already have Convict in Peer Review. Similarly, we have Punk. The problem with "new" classes is that they aren't really necessary since, by level 6ish, every class is essentially the same. Everyone takes Body Building, Construction, Diagnosis, Free Running and NecroTech Employment. Healers will take Lab Experience and combat types will take Hand to Hand (or another gun skill). Everything else is "personal preference" and, yes, I know so is the list above, but those skills are the ones everyone takes pretty quick. As for the suggestion itself, as pointed out, it is overpowered. NO class starts with 2 skills, so why should this one? Secondly, which "category" would this be in? THAT would dicatate the cost of the skill purchases.--Pesatyel 05:39, 31 March 2010 (BST)

First question, is your first language English? Next question, how do you justify a class that will out level every other current class (No class yet has two 25% cost deductions to their skill tracks), comes out hotter (two start skills), and starts out with a decent weapon on top of that (Giving gun skills and hand to hand to a newly created character is a zerger's dream). Obey the Midnight's rules. -Devorac 06:56, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Luckily for you this has already been taken apart by nice people. There is one starting class that needs two starting skills, but good luck getting that through Peer Reviewed. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 10:43, 31 March 2010 (BST)

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Suicide

Timestamp: Jack Kolt Talk|Chars 06:26, 29 March 2010 (BST)

Type: New twist for anyone who is suicidal.

Scope: survivors, CR'd zombies

Description: Malton is a dangerous place. people are scared to death about getting eaten. so what do you do? well, if you've seen any zombie movie worth it's salt, you know there's always the person who goes and kills themself. now, there is the old standby of jumping of a building, but what if you have something that can do the job for you? this is where suicide comes in. basically, kill yourself with stuff on hand. Now, only a few items would make the cut. and they are: knife pistol shotgun When you click on an these items (when they are in your inventory) you get this message: this item has little effect besides combat (or some such) . would you like to use it on yourself? this will kill you yes/no clicking on yes will give you this text (if you use a gun, and will use one bullet/shell) placing the barrel of the gun to your mouth, you exhale sharply, then pull the trigger. there is a loud gunshot, and you collapse to the ground, dead. clicking on yes will give you this text (if you use knife) placing the cold blade of the knife to your throat, you clench your teeth and cut your neck open. blood drips over your chest, and you collapse to the ground, dead. --notes-- you do not take headshot for this regardless if you are a zombie hunter. anyone in the vicinity would see "Soandso killed themselves with a (insert weapon here)" any other weapons are far to unwieldy to warrant enough damage to kill yourself. your clothes get bloodied as usual.

Discussion (Suicide)

• Been suggested a buncha times before, but I'll let Izzy toss the list up, since he's got everything on tab. Main reason it's never been implemented was balance/abuse. Makes parachuting way too easy. A bunch of death cultists could hop into a mall and kill themselves with 48 or so AP left to kill and pinata the place. Etc RinKou 06:39, 29 March 2010 (BST)

RE Looking back on this, I'm sure didn't think this one through enough, as the amount of abuse this would get would be catastrophic. Well, good thing this isn't the real suggestions page. --Jack Kolt ^Talk|Chars 02:51, 30 March 2010 (BST)

Might as well just cut out the middleman and give zombies free-running... Hmmm :) --Honestmistake 08:55, 29 March 2010 (BST)

Suggestion:20071210 Suicide By Firearm is a good example of a dupe. And please explain how you can put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, without causing a headshot. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:03, 29 March 2010 (BST)

You know better than to use logic on a member of the DEM. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 10:33, 29 March 2010 (BST)

RE oh god, not these stereotypes again. but yes, It makes more sense to have a headshot. --Jack Kolt ^Talk|Chars 02:51, 30 March 2010 (BST)

Ross stole one of the better dupes from my files. The main reason that this is always shot down is due to barricade negation concerns, barricades are the core mechanic of this game, removing their effect in such a blatant and clumsy way is just stupid. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 10:33, 29 March 2010 (BST)

I, for one, support the idea of a 100+ zombie paratroopers freerunning over the barricades and becoming a lethal swarm of insta-death with the simple application of a knife. It just makes so much sense in terms of a zombie apocalypse, it's glorious. --OnlyKillingZombiesIsRacist 14:03, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Just a thought but, if only those survivors with infections could suicide (ie give up all hope and end the suffering asap) then it would at least be thematically pleasing. Of course there should still be a mechanism to make it a poor parachute... perhaps a 50% chance of a headshot and a 50% chance of setting current AP to -1. --Honestmistake 23:18, 31 March 2010 (BST)

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Suggestions up for voting

Binocular/Ruin nerf

Has gone to voting here. --

 

 

 

 

07:33, 4 April 2010 (BST)