User talk:Duke Garland

New messages at the bottom, please! do them by just clicking the "+" tab at the top instead of "edit"...

Some stuff from here is moved to the archieve (sic) and archive

Monroeville Many

Welcome aboard. You can stroll over to our forum or just coordinate through our wiki page. A couple of targets are always at the top of that page, and its updated a couple of times a week. What profile you using? --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 10:54, 5 July 2008 (BST)

Welcome aboard!--Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 12:17, 5 July 2008 (BST)

EMRs to Process

I've created EMRP: Reports to Process. A page for EMRs that need to be put into their correct pages on the wiki. A bot does the job so it saves people editing tons of pages on their own. I thought you might want to know since you have that page of IW links containing reports. If you can extract the recent ones that need adding and/or post future reports there, they can be dealt with much faster. -- Rooster Dragon 12:26, 5 July 2008 (BST)

Clueless Travellers!

Hey Duke, I know you had the absolute worst luck in the last manhunt... And we are still having them every now and then, at the moment Me and Nallan are in one with AHLG and Axe Hack. Maybe next time you would like to have another crack? Kind regards, DanceDanceRevolution 13:01, 24 July 2008 (BST)

Requesting the Help of the Duke RE Warehouses and fuel cans

Hello, I was directed here by another gent on the wiki because I had a question that no one seemed sure about.

If you click on http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Useful_Items#Fuel_Can, you'll notice that it claims that warehouses are the best source of fuel in the game. (10% search rate with lighting, compared to ~6% for auto repair shops) In my experience over several months of trying to get these warehouses to surrender their black gold to my combat engineer, I'm pretty sure I've never seen it happen once. One the other hand, I've found tons of fuel cans at auto-repair shops. Apparently you have a rep as a stat junkie, so I was wondering if you can shed any light on what's going on. Am I an extreme statistical outlier or has someone made a dodgy claim there?

Thanks in advance!

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Avenell (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Thanks for the help Duke. The only problem I have with Rupert's data is that lit warehouses are providing a worse search ratethan dark for fuel. Do you know of anyone else whose done research in this area? Is there a potential explanation for a darker building providing more of one item than a lit version? Thanks in advance for your time :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Avenell (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Respect from Revenant

I love that picture for clothing slots. :D ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 02:51, 10 September 2008 (BST)

URL questions

After posting my question here: Talk:Actions_via_"question_marks"#Movement_in_Monroeville, I realized from the dates that nobody's going to be reading up on that anytime soon. It also looks like you've got experience. care to give a bit? Thanks!--Kolechovski 20:07, 30 September 2008 (BST)

Thank god you're here!

Swing over to Northwest Borehamwood Weve got Iwitness of most the suburb. Im just trying to piece it all together. --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:00, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Cool Ignore the top wiki map on that page its proper wrong. --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:04, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

only through mibbit. what you need? --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:08, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks duke. The template for railway line is Template:Railway --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:38, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Here [[1]]--Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:53, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

and Central Borehamwood East Borehamwood as well. --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:54, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Duke Garland's automated map is here: User:Duke_Garland/BHW. Didn't see a link, so I thought I'd make a note. -- Maunder 03:36, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

More

North Borehamwood--Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 23:41, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Mapping

[2] [3] [4] [5] [6]

--Dr Cory Bjornson 04:21, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

all 5 done --~~~~ [talk ] 07:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

hide this building from your map... ... let others have the surprise of finding it --People's Commissar Hagnat ^talk 15:51, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Duke, don't hide the house. This wiki's supposed to be a resource, not an instrument of suspense. --

.

. <== DDR Approved Editor 16:26, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

the suspense!!! i has it!! (quick, a lolcat, someone) --~~~~ [talk ] 16:28, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Funny-pictures-cat-waits-for-bird-to-stop-holding-its-breath.jpg

--

.

. <== DDR Approved Editor 17:19, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

awesome! =) --~~~~ [talk ] 19:06, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Automated Mapping

Although your map is a great resource, I couldn't help myself for thinking of how it could be better, and so I dove into the same pool. Over the last few days I wrote some perl scripts to collect data, process it, and generate html maps similar to yours. I also merged my existing map data from csv, so the result currently covers 54% of the city. The stream of public iwitness reports seems to have slowed somewhat, but incorporating the new ones is now relatively painless. Check out the results: [7]

I'll publish the tools after they get a slightly more reliable and I write some instructions for using them. They will always be hacks, though! -- Maunder 16:50, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

rapidshare? wtf? the stupidest place to host anything. Anyway, i already have automapping set up and running, Lexi did it, instructions are at the top of map's talk page. --~~~~ [talk ] 20:06, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Damn, you are so right! I thought people would want to download a copy but of course they can save it from the web directly. Dumb. I found a place to host web page for free. I saw Lexi's xpi but haven't seen any documentation about it (how it works?). mmap.html [8] 5996 blocks (62%) 355K -- Maunder 17:00, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

excellent! i'll import your info to my map once i'll get to a more powerful computer. Lexi's xpi is a plugin for firefox, once you "install" itz it's going to automatically send info to Lexi's server, where it is parsed and buffered for me in handy format. about once a day (can do more often) i empty this buffer and import it to my database. --~~~~ [talk ] 18:56, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I merged your published data with my own [9] and wanted to let you know about the discrepancies to be resolved. Here's the list, from my merge script:

WARN style: class="b c33" <> class="b c4" at 534-25 (Sparkes Street)
WARN name mismatch at 537-20: 'Busker Alley' over 'Bucke Alley'
WARN name mismatch at 538-19: 'the Stolley Hotel' over 'the Studley Hotel'
WARN name mismatch at 544-31: 'the Spring Hotel' over 'The Spring Hotel'
WARN name mismatch at 568-82: 'Stavely Street' over 'Staveley Street'
WARN name mismatch at 584-96: 'Cavendish Road' over 'The Black Swan'
WARN style: class="b c85" <> class="b c76" at 587-92 (a river)
WARN style: class="b c85" <> class="b c76" at 587-93 (a river)
WARN style: class="b c85" <> class="b c76" at 587-94 (a river)
WARN name mismatch at 592-7: 'a river' over 'Record Place'

I can confirm that your 592-7 record name is incorrect. It was a forged Iwitness record (it's possible and even not too hard to do this.) It appears your 584-96 record is incorrect. You have an identical block next door (585-96) which is also in my database. The river styles I think are c85s. Check your data sources? The other 3 name mismatches are probably wrong on my end. I've an Iwitness record that gives me c33 for the 534-25 style. Irrelevant, I know... -- Maunder 20:20, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

thanks for posting. i know from the man himself that Kevan changed some of the locations on the live map, in particular "Record Place" - it indeed was called like that and had class c767, so got to me through real old iwitness and now has different style (Kevan didn't mention that fixed name too). 537-20 538-19 544-31 and 568-82 are your errors - that's why i don't use user-typed data from wiki, it has errata like this. 534-25 is my mistake indeed, Sparkes Street, haha. i'll have a look at rivers and 584-96 later --~~~~ [talk ] 20:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

ok, fixed 584-96, not sure how it got in wrongly. rivers come from Lexi's from 13th of November and i'm sure that they are c85-s (show up several times) --~~~~ [talk ] 21:08, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The reason I say that iwitness record is forged is that some lines ended with line-feed only, while others had carriage-return+line-feed. To me it looked like someone copied the text out, edited (on a Windows box), and pasted back in. Then, viewing the edited text as a web page, submitted it to Iwitness. I don't think Kevan had anything to do with it. I never saw a style entry c767 in any css sheet (and it doesn't follow Kevan's pattern), so I think the submitter just made that up as well. I have another case of suspected "Iwitness fraud" as well.

Are you sure about 544-31? I would be shocked to find the capitalization different on just one single hotel!

If you're a stickler for accuracy, there are some minor spacing errors I ran across in your data, as well: double-spacings and missing spaces. [10] -- Maunder 03:22, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

You may not think if you prefer so, but Kevan did had to do with it, as he told me that c767 was a design accident when i asked him directly why is it not in css. 544-31 is not a hotel, it's a bar and bars start with capitalised The. Thanks for spacings, i'm aware of them, but list is nice anyway --~~~~ [talk ] 05:37, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry if I offended you in some way, you seem annoyed. Thanks for checking and getting back to me about the bar called Hotel and others. And of course I'll take your word about the "Record Place" if you talked to Kevan directly. In any case I've got Iwitness of that square 592-7 and it's a c76 river as of about 5 days ago. -- Maunder 02:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Another update of merged data for you:

$ ./dukedata.pl BHW1.html BHW2.html | sort > duke.db
LOG Church spacing fix at 537,41 'St Odo's Church'
$ ./mergem.pl iwmap.db duke.db > merged.db
WARN style: class="b c50" <> class="b c67" at 517-58 (a field)
WARN style: class="b c66" <> class="b c67" at 518-58 (a field)
WARN style: class="b c50" <> class="b c67" at 518-59 (a field)
WARN style: class="b c50" <> class="b c67" at 519-59 (a field)
WARN name mismatch at 550-20: 'Highmore Grove Garage' over 'Higmore Grove Garage'
WARN style: class="b c28" <> class="b c4" at 562-14 (the Sparks Monument)

Only about 22 blocks to go! Good work! -- Maunder 04:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Church spacing - fixed. 550-20 is indeed Highmore Grove Garage, but the funny fact is that i got the wrong spelling from your map. I'm now doubting that i should have imported your wiki-entries-parsed data at all :( It could have more errata like this hidden. Sparks hits again - fixed. and also note 360-58 (Sparks Boulevard): it was park in my data too. Fields - fixed, once again errata'd data was from your map. I'm going to run through Lexi's data again to check for other inconsistencies with previously imported --~~~~ [talk ] 20:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note! I picked up those fixes automatically from your published map earlier. It's possible there are other misspellings out there from the early hand-collection, and also that there are more fields which are not actually c67s (I assigned all those fields from early hand-collection c67 as a default value, but they are marked uncertain in my database). I am sure you are using your Lexi data as definitive when merging with earlier data. If you want to take just the Iwitness data to merge you can import my iwmap.html [11] (or I'll send you the data if you like). Or you can put up a Lexi-only data map and I'll merge with the Iwitness and return it. Let me know!

Only 3 blocks remain to be discovered! And a week left to play?! -- Maunder 05:20, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Howdy. I've got a few more corrections for you. These were in my google spreadsheet, the early hand-collected data. Iwitness has now corrected them.

WARN name mismatch at 579-86: 'Hansford Alley School' over 'Hansford Alley'
WARN name mismatch at 579-87: 'The Crescent' over 'the Crescent'
WARN name mismatch at 582-94: 'Bowdage Bank' over 'Bowdage Alley'
WARN name mismatch at 583-93: 'the Templer Museum' over 'the Templer Building'

Note that The Crescent is a pub, just like The Spring Hotel. I had suspected it had been renamed, so I went to check. It's still there. -- Maunder 03:07, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Open the doors

could you do me a favor and open the doors to the big brother building ? i am a lonely zed who wants to get inside and express my feeling in the diary room. --People's Commissar Hagnat ^talk 00:37, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

can you let me in please?? i'll be good i promise :) zombies and humans hand in hand, hoorah! --x o x o 12:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

There's no "Open Door" button, unfortunately. I couldn't help hagnat either --~~~~ [talk ] 12:30, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

can't you just walk outside and they open? Hmmm i guess not...where's hag at? You could come outside and let me nibble on your for xp? :D --x o x o 12:34, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

No --~~~~ [talk ] 12:34, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Big Brother House

This wiki is a resource of factual information. Your removal of sourced information without sufficient reason is something I consider to be bad faith editing. The new information is accurately sourced. Please desist in your removal or I shall be forced to take the case to A/VB. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:28, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh, i'm so scared of this! This was so good faith edit of yours to go against the oral agreement among players! you're linke the messaih of the ignorance, bring "F" to "INFORMATION" --~~~~ [talk ] 13:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

What oral agreement?

No seriously, oral, as in spoken, over a wiki?

And between which players, I see Hagnat trying to put a blanket ban on its location and you supporting it. That's it boyo. --

.

. <== DDR Approved Editor 13:48, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

And I think you ruined the game for many people by publishing it all over the wiki. If people wanted to know the location, thats one thing.. they could goto a page and find it, but you have it in your siggy which for those who wanted to actually look for the house themselves following clues... well.. that is now ruined for them--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 16:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Anime, if you want to talk to Iscariot, use User_talk:Iscariot --~~~~ [talk ] 20:04, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

mission accepted

I'll have a look! --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 23:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Duke, heres some evidence of borders.

User:Rosslessness/Random Rambling/Sandbox11

I also know that The north West is not a rectangle. --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 20:39, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Added some more. I'm pretty sure radlett is a regular shape, that just takes a chunk out of NW borehamwood, but theres also a thin strip of countryside down the middle.--Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:02, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Borehamwood Statistics (I suppose..)

After the mapping is complete, would you be interested in gathering data on new locations? _■^■ 04:36, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

sure. --~~~~ [talk ] 07:30, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Borehamwood suburb boundaries

My internet access has been iffy lately, but I'll see what I can pull together when I have a bit more time to spare. I know I had a good east-northeast-countryside border - it's recorded in iwits, but I've not put it into a PNG image yet. --Jen 19:52, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Template:Cathedral

Did you want this deleted? You removed the content. I am only asking because it was made so recently. It is a crit 10 (unused template) and can just easily be deleted if that's what you want. If not, better add something to it and post it. Thanks--– Nubis ^NWO 14:15, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

we use {{church}} right now for cathedrals. i need to check malton to be sure wether there should be a different template or not and then i'll post to a/sd if not. --~~~~ [talk ] 14:45, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

St elisabeths.

I'm pretty sure ones a St Elizabeths and the others a St Elisabeths. --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:40, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Ow... ok... So i shouldn't worry that they are named correctly, right? =) --~~~~ [talk ] 21:43, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Heres Iwitness of one. http://iwrecords.urbandead.info/11-04-08_1900hrs_PUBLIC/OUT_525-30__531-70a-fe7.html --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:51, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually i'm certain in this one and was worried about the other one, as it's the only block that i had to take from Northwest Borehamwood page (others showed up in Lexi's data channel recently) --~~~~ [talk ] 21:54, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure as well. I spotted 2 st elisabeths, and only when i went back i realised it should be with a z. --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:55, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

A couple Borehamwood map questions

I was wondering if your Borehamwood map data included any info on mobile phone masts or billboards, as these are the last couple bits of info not yet included on Borehamwood's suburb pages. Also, I was curious if you were going to do a location types statistics page for Borehamwood like you did for Monroeville. I have to say I rather enjoy the statistics. Plus, I had wanted to update the fields article with the Borehamwood percentage. --Zarneverfike 04:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

No, i don't have info on mobile phones and billboards at all, unfortunately. As for statistics, Maunder did some, so i was too lazy to make another one. Though if it's needed - i'll have a look --~~~~ [talk ] 12:08, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

How about one of these for Borehamwood? _■^■ 18:18, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The stats aren't absolutely necessary. I was just curious. I'll see if Maunder's stats are definitive stats as well as if he has any info on phone masts or billboards. I was actually thinking of starting a page for Borehamwood's unique locations before Dr Cory's post. I might start working on it. The locations are easy to add, but items found stats will be hard to come by now, as most survivors are busy surviving. --Zarneverfike 05:05, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

yeah, i'll have a look when i have time today or tomorrow --~~~~ [talk ] 07:28, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Living in Bwood

Found buildings N BW, Nestle, Pontian. No lights, but then some survivors have been moving away from lights. Some fellow z's here. Will try to move SW and/or keep you updated on tasty brain quotient. Thanks for the info tip! Informant 21:59, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

UPDATE - Confirmed, barricades went back up after damage. Harmanz! Informant 02:03, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

UPDATE - Thanks for new tip, patrolling in the area but always seem to be late to the party. Ruining anything I can find, think they're hiding out in ruins now. At least cockroaches have character. There's a few active zombies knocking around, so we'll likely see/hear something sooner or later. Cheers! Informant 20:44, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

UPDATE - At the moment there's about a dozen randoms chomping through Central, they'll attack each other as well as buildings so it's a bit of a bust. Will rest up and make my way westward, see if we can get some better results. I don't think any of the ferals will join the exodus tho.. Informant 13:36, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

UPDATE - 530,27 and surrounds, EHB and some breathers. Few other zeds knocking around, too busy munching each other to work together on the cades. Still, roll into the vicinity and we'll see what happens. Informant 00:03, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

UPDATE - Two or three active that I can see, I'm forced to hide indoors when sleeping because of those unhelpful zeds that spend their points killing other zeds rather than smashing cades. Living are probably going to flee the area knowing our luck... Informant 02:00, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm bored of writing UPDATE haha - Fabian is back to EHB and now Juan is ruined. I'm hoping whoever sees the first breather sees enough of them to get a good feeding groan going. Informant 23:48, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Breathers in Swanborough Cinema [501,3] Informant 23:41, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Life in St Onuphrius's Hospital [523,81] and surrounds. Informant 17:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh I'm still in Borehamwood, munching on the odd survivor. Anyone who ventures away from the main group, haha. Informant 20:25, 15 September 2009 (BST)

Ok, cool! Thanks for the tip Informant 00:17, 17 September 2009 (BST)

Hi from Cortie :)

Hey Duke,

I know you are probably busy, but if you have spare time would you please help me out? I am trying to make a template for my new group Soldiers of Crossman (can you feel a bit of LCD-ish influence ;p) but so far my experimentation bears no fruits. I would really appreciate if you could maybe make something up for me, when it comes to colours variation of black/grey/white would be awesome (if it's possible re-use the LCD one, just with different picture). If you don't have time, I understand.

Also, are you any near by chance to north-west? Feel like smoking a cigarette/drinking a beer with me and talking about the good ol' times or just talking about the present? :) I am sure Rico and Sev would also be very happy to see you again.

Sencerely yours, Cortonna.

DarthRevan 09:08, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Duke, I appreciate it a lot :) Hug ya :)

I would defenitely like to meet you at some point, when you are free. Drop a line, when you can. We could set up a meeting place if you want. :) DarthRevan 06:39, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to wait for another update

to see you again.

Stay for real this time?

Love D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 12:12, 4 July 2009 (BST)

Sorry, but no. --~~~~ [talk ] 08:02, 27 July 2009 (BST)

:'( I tried. --ϑϑℜ 09:18, 27 July 2009 (BST)

Tall Monuments

Thank you!--Bonghit420 12:19, 4 July 2009 (BST)

Wait, did you mean to tell me that your monument is not tall even though it is on a tall pillar?--Bonghit420 12:23, 4 July 2009 (BST)

I could use a hand in Borehamwood

I've got your zombie, Let him kill you, listed as one of my contacts. I'm trying to organize some of the ferals. There are harmanz in the South and in Elstree. I'd like to coordinate an attack with you and any zombies you can gather. ASAP, since the harmanz are being discovered right now. Are you interested?--Necrofeelinya 04:55, 27 July 2009 (BST)

Do you have a Barhah.com account so I can PM you with info?--Necrofeelinya 11:26, 27 July 2009 (BST)

Factory's down. Ven Cinema about 2 squares to the southeast sound good next?--Necrofeelinya 01:57, 28 July 2009 (BST)

Got a report the factory's back up. No matter. Got a plan. Can you PM me here?

Ruined Abbey

I've been sitting on this info for a while, but I visited the ruined abbey in Borehamwood, and found that it can be barricaded normally. I did not test if it could be loosely caded with a pipe. The barricading flavour messages even match the location description (ie. a heavy stone, a dead tree, etc. rather than generic cading material), so I assume its not a bug. It seems like the bug was that it could be loosely caded with a pipe, despite lacking doors. I updated a ruined abbey (Borehamwood) as well as Borehamwood/Location Types Unique to Borehamwood with this info. If you think this is wrong let me know. --Zarneverfike 21:05, 6 August 2009 (BST)

Zombie interference %s research

No problem about missing my message. I understand.

Regarding the interference research, I've been using multiple alts to collect data, and have been compiling it here. The problem is, its quite seldom that I encounter a building with 2 or more zombies inside that has yet to be ruined, so its fairly slow-going with collecting the data. If you wanted to collect data independently that would help immensely. Or, if there were multiple people involved, and we found an isolated section of the city, we could artificially create the situation of multiple zombies inside an un-ruined building. But I would worry about the automatic anti-zerging features kicking in and throwing numbers off, if it weren't one player per alt. Short of that, if you can think of good locations to collect data, I'd like to know. Currently, I just search building reports for buildings under siege, but I don't always get there in time. Also, I've been hanging out near forts, as the gatehouses usually have frequent break-ins, but they a both ruined now, I believe. Anyway, I'm hoping to get the most precise numbers possible for the effect, so anyway you can get data, or coerce others into collecting data would certainly help. --Zarneverfike 23:47, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Darvall Heights is a good place then - it's often here that zombies are inside buildings attacking. i'll be somewhere around there in next few weeks anyway and will try to gather data. --~~~~ [talk ] 12:23, 29 August 2009 (BST)

Minimaps

Yeah, they're fucking weird. I knocked up a version that IE and FF both seem to respect that renders at the intended 81px a side. Template:SuburbMinimap. It relies on only ever being rendered at that size though. Interestingly you specify 8px per row, but only 7px per column, maybe something about the collapsed borders model?

Anyway, both IE and FF seem entirely disrespectful of the wanted height/width of the normal minimap on the suburb pages. FF is currently spouting 83x84 despite the intended 82px size. Enjoy mulling over that one. -- Rooster Dragon 22:06, 12 October 2009 (BST)

percentage-based height is just an argh generally. dunno why width doesn't work like that. there's a known "feature" of Opera that you won't have a "height:100%" content inside a table behave like stretching fully from top to bottom in it's td when there's no height specified for the table itself because according to the html standards if the containing element doesn't have height (i.e. height:auto), then percentage-based is the same, height is "height:auto" too. and this means that you need to specify "height=1" for the outer table and let the insides stretch themself out in their real height for the thing to behave like you want it in Opera. Darn the standards-respecting Opera!

yeah, i saw the SuburbMinimap and it works awesome. i wondered for a moment, why is not MiniMap made like that. Then i copied margin from SuburbMinimap and it didn't help. Then i throwed around in Dragonfly and didn't understand why Opera does 10 px instead of 8px and i'm using Opeara 10, which passes acid3. grrr.). Then i noticed it works after fiddling with 2 pixels in original height. yay... --~~~~ [talk ] 22:33, 12 October 2009 (BST)