Developing Suggestions

NOTICE

The Suggestions system has been closed indefinitely and Developing Suggestions is no longer functions as a part of the suggestions process. However, you are welcome to use this page for general discussion on suggestions.

Shortcut:
DS

Developing Suggestions

This section is for general discussion of suggestions for the game Urban Dead.

It also includes the capacity to pitch suggestions for conversation and feedback.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Resources

• The Frequently Suggested List
• Suggestions Dos and Do Nots

How To Make a Discussion

Adding a New Discussion

To add a general discussion topic, please add a Tier 3 Header (===Example===) below, with your idea or proposal.

Adding a New Suggestion

• To add a new suggestion proposal, copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.
• The process is illustrated in this image.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change.
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past month may be cycled without notice.

Please add new discussions and suggestions to the top of the list

---

Suggestions

Lower HP by 20

Timestamp: -- Spiderzed▋ 16:44, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Type: Value change

Scope: Everyone

Description: Let's go crazy and lower all hitpoints by 20. These would be the concrete effects: Starting humans and zombies have 30HP. Bodybuilding/Flesh Rot grants +10HP as usual, giving a total of 40HP. Revived humans have 15/20HP (depending on if they have Bodybuilding or not.) drag-eligibility still gets triggered at 12HP, putting freshly revived humans without FAKs at great risk damage from weapons and infection remains unaltered damage from failed Freerunning into ruins is halved to 2HP, rather than 5HP (17-20% of total possible health for stumbling over rubble would be a bit extreme, wouldn't it?) healing still heals 5/10/15HP depending on circumstances and skills, and digestion still grants 4HP per bite XP for healing and attacking remain the same Why go that crazy? Because of these beneficial effects: Zombies Lone ferals get a far better chance to break in and still have the AP to drag/kill someone, making even lone ferals dangerous. Cheap revive costs become far less of an issue in balance, as they are closer to kill costs, without the need to raise the AP costs for reviving to a ridiculous amount At the same time, combat revives remain a viable tactic, as they work reliably for exactly 10AP and just use up a single 2% item (unlike melee weapons, which probably use more than the 10AP, and unlike guns, which clog up more than 2% of encumbrance). Eating corpses becomes a viable tactic, as the AP costs to do so are close to that of receiving a headshot and rising again with full HP PKers PKers would need far less HP to kill, allowing further away bolt-holes and epic striketeam mass homicide PKers could actually make some impact, as the kill costs are so close to revive costs OTOH, the reduced HP would put also PKers at greater risk, as even dark places aren't darn safe protection from every lone wolf without a genny and fuel. A bodybuilding PKer with a flak jack could be killed with a pistol for 31AP on average (((40HP / 4 damage)/65% hit probability)/50% darkness penalty). Carrying genny+fuel for PKer hunting would still be a sensible option, as it allows a.) to "bank" AP in advance that later make it easier to hunt PKers and b.) it allows to collect multiple bounties in dark places swarming with PKers This would also give bounty-hunting/retribution kills some sense, as the costs for doing so aren't so much ridicoulously higher than the costs to revive the PKers (although it would still remain somewhat less AP-efficient than ignoring PKers and putting the APs rather into reviving the victims) Survivors Survivors get a far better chance to break a cade block, as they can kill and dump multiple zeds per individual AP cycle. A survivor loaded with pistols could repel a rotter for 10AP on average, allowing him to kill and dump 3 zeds at once and still cade a bit if he is fully rested. (((40HP / 4 damage)/65% hit probability = 15AP, +1AP for dumping = 16AP per pop) Survivors can fill up their inventory mostly with FAKs, syringes, a toolbox and maybe also a genny and/or fuel, and still put enough guns into their spare encumbrance for them to actually have an effect. A single revolver and two spare clips for a total of 8% would be sufficient to repel a single fully healthy rotter. Flavour 3-5 shotgun blasts or 6-8 revolver bullets would be all what it takes to send someone to the boot hill, rather than the ridiculous amount of abuse that folks can take right now before they die The beneficial effects would probably be slightly more in favour of zombies than survivors (as the imperative of zombies is to attack whenever possible, while survivors usually only fight when things have gone wrong), but it would offer something for both, and it would especially nerf the dreaded cade blocking without removing it entirely. I'm aware that it's crazy and extreme, but I see a lot of merit in this. Discuss.

Discussion (Lower HP by 20)

It's a slightly less extreme version of this. Main complaint has been the harshness on newbs, so I figured that I'd help them by granting +5HP compared to the original suggestion. The other thought that crossed my mind was handing out free healing items to new survivors, but +5HP are more permanent and help also retroactively. -- Spiderzed▋ 16:46, 11 October 2010 (BST)

I'd kill this only because I'm too used to the 50-60HP max. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:49, 11 October 2010 (BST)

I like this. I'd vote for it. I wouldn't trust it with my children, but I'd vote for it. 16:58, 11 October 2010 (BST)

As I said on the last version, I like it. See my comments there for more detail on why I like it. —Aichon— 17:58, 11 October 2010 (BST)

---

Something New to Gesture At

Timestamp: •▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 03:00, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Type: Addition on Gesture Drop-down list

Scope: Zombies with Flailing Gesture

Description: The short and simple version? Add "graffiti" to the list of things to gesture at in the gesture drop down list.

Discussion (Something New to Gesture At)

Nice and short. Anyone want the long version? Because I could prepare one... ;) --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 03:04, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Its a massive dupe and you know it. What happens if the spraypaint is changed between the gesture and the observer logging on? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:25, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Oh MAAAAN I can see how bad that would be. You gesture at it because it's a URL, then someone sprays something about their wang onto the wall. To someone later...you gestured to that. Not too good an impression. Shadok ^{T Balance is power} 13:11, 11 October 2010 (BST)

I want a gesture to the eyes. Like the zombie poked your eyes. And you can't see anything happening after that and until you log back on! Unless you equipped something over your face like safety goggles. --Aeon17x 11:31, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Perhaps, but I the problem pointed above makes it more of a 'Nah'. I'd rather have my suggestion just two below. Maybe if you post the long version? ~m ^T! 15:34, 11 October 2010 (BST)

I swear, I did not see your suggestion below. I only got this idea after this. It would have been funny if I gestured at that graffiti, then at me, and said "Hagz?". xD --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:19, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Its still a peer reviewed dupe. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:15, 11 October 2010 (BST)

---

How bout some mild form of XP Wastage?

Timestamp: ~m T! 00:36, 9 October 2010 (BST)

Type: New Skills

Scope: Maxed character

Description: I know this is on the frequently suggested list, and having been a wiki regular way back, I've seen my share of stupid ideas. But they all involved some skill which would be bought (by the regular ammount of 100XP), sometimes more than once, stacking effects, be used for limited time/actions/whatever, and usually be really overpowered while active. How about a completely different approach? Say, a skill bought for regular price (100XP), you can buy it only one time and it lasts forever, just like a regular skill would. The XP wastage would come when using it: it would spend the usual 1AP, plus something around 5XP, and be slightly more powerful than a regular skill. Note that I'm not (as yet) discussing which skill that would be, I just wanna know what your opinion would be on this general mechanic.

Discussion (How bout some mild form of XP Wastage?)

Think of it as writing a scroll on DnD. You don't need to be a maxed-out wizard to do so, you don't spend a huge ammount of XP, and the effect is just as strong as your spells. It does, however, serve as a psychological relieve to us who are constantly staring at a gargantuan ammount of unspent XP. ~m ^T! 00:37, 9 October 2010 (BST)

Not a dupe, but I just like my Peer Reviewed version better. =P --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:53, 9 October 2010 (BST)

"You claw at a survivor for 4HP! The attack was strengthened by your excess energy!" It actually sounds pretty cool :P Shadok ^{T Balance is power} 02:02, 9 October 2010 (BST)

Yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of. 1AP, 5XP, 1 extra damage. Not too powerful, not too useless. For humans it could improve accuracy, since improving bullet damage just because you're awesome sounds kind of stupid. Also, now that I come to think of it, it's probably a good idea to make it 15XP instead of 5, but that's up for discussion. ~m ^T! 19:38, 9 October 2010 (BST)

I think adding accuracy or damage through this mechanism might be a bit much, however, I am all for a way to spend excess xp. Rather than directly influence combat a more utilitarian bonus might be better. For example zombies get to reduce the stand up cost while survivors get to reduce the repair/manufacture cost? --Honestmistake 08:13, 11 October 2010 (BST)

So you're suggesting zero AP standup costs, Honest? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:33, 11 October 2010 (BST)

---

Improve zombie gestures

Timestamp: ~m T! 23:47, 7 October 2010 (BST)

Type: Skill improvement

Scope: Zombies with flailing gesture

Description: The other day I felt a need to be able to point at more stuff. Some things are really hard to express in zombese, and being able to point at, for example, the NecroTech logo, or an open door, could come in handy. So I suggest there are more options to zombie players to point at. Usually, a single one at most per building, something that marks it as unique. For example: The NT logo, inside NT buildings The cross, inside churchs Billboards, in street blocks featuring one Phone mast, outside a building featuring one The bar, inside pubs and clubs (or maybe a pool table on some pub or another?) so on Also, open doors. As it is, you can point at barragahz, but once they're down you can't gesture "IN!". And maybe "All other zombies" in addition to "A zombie"? It crossed my mind to point at items in one's inventory, too, but that will clutter the dropdown menu too much. As the suggestion stands, you could have tons of different pointable things, but only one in each place. (plus All other zombies and open door). Maybe, the items could go in, say, after the survivors; the dropdown could, then, be separated into sections, by use of useless (ha!) " - " items (like the first item on the "Drop item" dropdown menu. Places first, survivors next, zombies (including ones on your contacts) next, then stationary pointable things, and lastly your own items? Still seems too much, but it could come in handy. What say you?

Discussion (Improve zombie gestures)

Personally, I think the unique stationary stuff is really useful, simple, and unproblematic to implement. The items in one's inventory, on the other hand, was a later idea, but I think it could go. Either way, now that I think of it, separating the flailing gesture dropdown menu into sections is a good idea, even without the extra item clutter... --~m ^T! 23:50, 7 October 2010 (BST)

I like the general idea. Definitely need more gestures. I don't like the idea of cross/bar, but the location's unique mechanical feature are good. Doors as well, since it allows zombies proof than the barricades had broken down earlier even if they weren't online to see it, something they currently lack. No opinion on items except that the amount of bullets in a gun should be irrelevant. --VVV ^RPMBG 23:58, 7 October 2010 (BST)

Do you think bars and churches should have other features or none at all? I mentioned them because I couldn't think of too many features right away. The NT logo was the one that made me feel the need. And I don't really think why shells in a shotgun should be relevant! ~m ^T! 00:03, 8 October 2010 (BST)

I dislike the idea of pointing at the cross or bar, but the other suggestions I like. I'd also suggest to add "the window" in tall buildings. 00:07, 8 October 2010 (BST)

Yes. --VVV ^RPMBG 00:58, 8 October 2010 (BST)

So, any more ideas on unique/stationary objects to be pointed at in specific buildings?

---

Reduced AP cost to Scout Safehouse

Timestamp: --~ 21:14, 3 October 2010 (BST)

Type: Skill buff/tweak

Scope: Survivors

Description: Nearly everyone agrees the Scout Safehouse Skill costs too much AP to be effective. It could use a buff/tweak. I think halfing it to 15 AP makes sense. Discuss.

Discussion (Reduced AP cost to Scout Safehouse)

That's more of a 75%, but it would be a benefit to survivors. However, the question is this: Will it change anything? It's still 15AP spent to regain it only after 3 days. I still don't see SS being used with this change. Shadok ^{T Balance is power} 22:31, 3 October 2010 (BST)

Not sure about your math, Shadok. Looks to me like you'd be able to recoup costs after 3 days instead of 6 days, as it is now. That sounds like a good thing to me, and 10-15 is what I've been bouncing around in my own head as the ideal number for how much it should cost to make it something that's useful. —Aichon— 22:57, 3 October 2010 (BST)

You know, I've been re-thinking "scout safehouse". Its not a good skill for stocking up. What is IS a good skill for is kicking your defensive capacity into overdrive once you already have 50 AP and a full stock and full cades. It might never earn you those 30 AP back, but that doesn't matter if it saves you 5 AP in the middle of an active conflict. Yeah, that means its not often useful, but I think its worth keeping in mind that maybe its utility SHOULD be very limited. Instead of thinking of it as scouting, think of it as spending a bunch of AP to power up before a fight.  Swiers 23:25, 3 October 2010 (BST)

scout safehouse is a self gathered idiot tax. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:34, 3 October 2010 (BST)

This. I used it once, probably never doing it again. Even 15 AP is too much. --Thadeous Oakley 23:36, 3 October 2010 (BST)

I don't really understand how the Scout Safehouse mechanic works. It says I gain 5 extra AP to use on my safehouse. That means what, that I can go up to 55 there? That I regen 5 AP faster in 24h? That I can do 5 free actions per day? ~m ^T! 23:54, 7 October 2010 (BST)

---

Poetry books don't cost AP

Timestamp: --Scout talk!!!! 18:25, 3 October 2010 (BST)

Type: Game mechanic change

Scope: Survivors

Description: Poetry books don't attack anybody, heal, give Experience points, or even give advice, and yet they cost an AP to read. In real life, it doesn't take much energy to read a poetry book. All they do is provide entertainment, maybe you could read them without loosing an AP?

Discussion (Poetry books don't cost SP)

Besides drop, are there any other 0 AP actions? Just wondering. RinKou 18:46, 3 October 2010 (BST)

No. If you need UD to get your poetry fix then you don't need a poetry fix. 19:16, 3 October 2010 (BST)

Anyone who thinks reading poetry requires zero energy, and is merely for entertainment, hasn't read nearly enough poetry...--Mallrat ^{TSI TKS CTD} 13:53, 6 October 2010 (BST)

Actually I am a avid reader, and love poetry. I also love classics, Ivanhoe and the Anne of Green Gables series being my favorites. I could live without the internet, but I would pine away if I had nothing to read. As for poetry being for more than entertainment, that may be true when you are not in a zombie apocalypse, but it would be for entertainment when you are in Malton. ---Scout talk!!!! 18:51, 6 October 2010 (BST)

---

Manhandle

Timestamp: RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 11:40, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Zombie Skill

Scope: Sub Skill of Feeding Drag.

Description: Simply put, if you're feeding dragged out of a ruined building it causes you damage, as you get scratched and ripped by the broken glass and rubble. The amount of damage is directly affected by the Decay level. So if you're dragged from a recent ruin, it causes you 1 damage, if its been ruined for more than 70 days, 10 damage. if you are killed by the drag, you die outside. XP wise, zombies gain no xp for the drag damage but do get the xp bonus if you are killed as a result.

Discussion (Manhandle)

First manhandle Joke goes to.... --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:41, 30 September 2010 (BST)

This is severely underpowered. 70 days should do 70 damage! --Aeon17x 11:55, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Minus HP.... Now how would that work?--Thadeous Oakley 11:57, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Well, repairing ruins could bring you into minus AP so I thought it was kinda fitting if it was possible to die while inhabiting one on minus HP. Maybe it could be expressed through significantly more clothing damage? Or the body becomes ineligible for feeding because of all the embedded shrapnel? --Aeon17x 12:59, 30 September 2010 (BST)

You're dead, you're dead . Simple as that. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:43, 30 September 2010 (BST)

There's no such thing as negative HP anyway. Killing damage doesn't roll over >_> RinKou 07:31, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Good enough. Hiding in ruines has an additional risk. Makes sense. Keep. --Thadeous Oakley 11:57, 30 September 2010 (BST)

I like it, but you'd need to specify how the damage scales with the decay level. 14:38, 30 September 2010 (BST)

I guess he's thinking something along the lines of:

• Level 1 (1 day) = 1 HP
• Level 2 (2 to 5 days) = 2 HP
• Level 3 (6 to 10 days) = 3 HP
• Level 4 (11 to 20 days) = 4 HP
• Level 5 (21 to 30 days) = 5 HP
• Level 6 (31 to 40 days) = 6 HP
• Level 7 (41 to 50 days) = 7 HP
• Level 8 (51 to 60 days) = 8 HP
• Level 9 (61 to 70 days) = 9 HP
• Level 10 (71+ days) = 10 HP

Seems about right to me. Keeping this in line with the existing decay levels would make this easier to implement. Chief Seagull squawk 15:03, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Exactly as that. I'd also make it a Malton exclusive as its a one shot kill in the perma death cities. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:44, 30 September 2010 (BST)

I like it. It's kind of a dupe from erm...Duped Stuff but more to the point. --~ 15:35, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Hey nobody think this could be a little overpowered? This is more than twice the damages a Zed could do normally. --DiSm ~ T 21:30, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Alternative Suggestion on damage levels? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:06, 30 September 2010 (BST)

The most obvious alternate would be:

• Level 1/2 (1 to 5 days) = 1 HP
• Level 3/4 (6 to 20 days) = 2 HP
• Level 5/6 (21 to 40 days) = 3 HP
• Level 7/8 (41 to 60 days) = 4 HP
• Level 9/10 (61+ days) = 5 HP

But frankly, I like it as it is. I've just taken part in the first time I have ever dragged a survivor from a ruined building, so I don't think it would occur enough to be a major OP. I like the 10-stage instead of a 5-stage.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:22, 30 September 2010 (BST)

As I said before, this should cause non-fatal damage, like falling from a ruin does. The only reason the zombie is dragging in the first place is because he wants the survivor to survive until a babah comes along. Zombies may not want to buy a skill that forces them to kill the almost dead. That said, I don't think it needs to be a skill at all. It should just be a part of feeding drag, since it's such a trivial thing. --VVV ^RPMBG 23:19, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Now thats not true at all. The only reasons I drag survivors is either A) Its Dark and I want to claw them properly, or B) I want the place ruined ASAP. I'm not helping others, just myself. Im so selfish. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:17, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Then you are not a true zombie, you are merely a survivor who isn't breathing. Eating people does not immediately mean you have seen the divine light of barhah. --VVV ^RPMBG 00:43, 2 October 2010 (BST)

Not needed, potential for screwing over those who have no other choice. - User:Whitehouse 23:30, 30 September 2010 (BST)

I like it, but Triple U has a point. Perhaps it cannot take a survivor below 1 HP? --Gat 00:11, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Trips nailed it. It needs to cause non-fatal damage, otherwise it's useless except in dark buildings. Also, the damage it causes shouldn't be too high anyway (Yonn's numbers are reasonable), since it's a 100% chance to hit and only costs 1-2AP (1AP to drag, 1AP to re-enter). That said, I'd have it do a base damage for the drag, and then add on extra damage for ruined buildings. Maybe 2HP base damage for Feeding Drag, even from unruined buildings, followed by some extra amount based on Decay (e.g. +0 for decay levels 1-4, then use Yonn's numbers as a guide for levels 5+). —Aichon— 00:13, 1 October 2010 (BST)

I'm still wavering towards a ruin only effect. But I'm never conceding on the "Non Fatal Damage" in a world where I can be killed with a tennis racket. How about 3 for ruined, 5 for a ruin cost over 30, and 7 for a ruin cost over 70? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:25, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Honestly, the fatal damage aspect is a killer for me. Don't get me wrong, the point you make about dying from practically anything is valid, but so many of us do drag to help others, and it's the core purpose of the skill, so neglecting it in that manner is unacceptable. As for the other damage you mention, I'd be okay with it. Were I picking numbers, they'd be just a smidgen lower, again because of the 100% chance to hit, but those ones are acceptable to me. I wouldn't vote kill on them alone. —Aichon— 12:08, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Hmm. Well as zombies only have 3 attacks, why not make this a fourth? Base accuracy, and tangling also affecting it? Then you have a choice of a non damaging drag at 100%, or a damaging one at about 50. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:27, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Often, I leave my dragee at the lowest health practical. Even if it's a choice between feeding drag or fatal drag, I'm still going to be clawing them post-drag. Nothing will have changed if I can't knock off some heath and still leave them on a silver platter. --VVV ^RPMBG 01:30, 2 October 2010 (BST)

I don't think we should be making it harder to retake ruined areas - anything that is going to nerf survivors should focus on those survivors that hang out in the green zones Sanpedro 06:53, 1 October 2010 (BST)

I don't see how it makes retaking ruins harder. You're only hiding in ruins if you're running. If you were planning to retake the ruin, you would've suicide repaired, right? So no damage from feeding drag. Besides, an additional 10 HP off isn't going to make much difference. If you got dragged outside, you're dead anyway. Almost 100% guaranteed. RinKou 07:31, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Yep. Plus its an added encouragement to, you know, repair them before they get too ruined. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:22, 1 October 2010 (BST)

I don't really think this hurts babah zambahz too much. If it were damage from drag from ANY building then yes but from ruins only, the impact is much less substantial to those without Memory of Life. And if the damage is nerfed down a bit, it effects them even less. They'll still likely be alive but with less HP then they might have if without drag damage (unless you wait until they're below 7HP to drag them out). --~ 14:10, 1 October 2010 (BST)

I would prefer to see it as a base damage but with a 10% chance per ruin level (10-100%) of doubling this damage, not actually fussed what the base damage is but would say between 3 and 5! Either way I would want the possibility of causing fatal damage. 1 thing to bear in mind is that most drags are done by the zombie causing the damage so even at 10 damage they will almost always have the option of not taking them to zero HP... --Honestmistake 18:30, 5 October 2010 (BST)

---

Hide in the Dark

Timestamp: -Dezonus- (talk) 05:17, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Skill

Scope: Survivor skill, can be used by Zombies too

Description: A dark building currently doesn't really serve any great purpose. Search rates are next to none, Attack rates halved, and Zombie grip is twice as effective (Or at least thats what I read). What if, for 5AP, you could find yourself a hiding place inside that dark building? You don't show up on the map unless another survivor or Zombie finds you... When a player enters a building, they have a 10% chance of finding you. Survivors Searching the area have a 50% chance of finding you Players performing an action will always have a 10% chance of finding you until found. Players with this skill can Think of places to hide, and so have an extra 10% chance to find you on top of that Zombies can hide too, if they really want to If the lights come on They will see you "The lights come on and you see that <name/a zombie> was hiding in the dark" Because its dark, you have a 5% chance of failing due to tripping/crashing into something, this wastes 1AP only.

Discussion (Hide in the Dark)

Nope, hiding is bad. Also as far as Kevan is concerned you've only hidden successfully if you manage to stay perfectly still for five days. --Aeon17x 05:33, 30 September 2010 (BST)

No. —Aichon— 06:18, 30 September 2010 (BST)

---

Urban DnD

Timestamp: Gat 03:55, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Type: random

Scope: Everyone!

Description: We should totally have either... A. A tabletop version of Urban Dead following DnD 3.0 core rules, but using THACO instead of AB B. Have an online DnD version of Urban Dead. Or C. Replace the RNG with a D20 Agreed, Dissagreed?

Discussion (Urban DnD)

Umm...is this actually a serious suggestion? -Dezonus- ^(talk) 05:26, 30 September 2010 (BST)

No. —Aichon— 06:18, 30 September 2010 (BST)

THAC0? DnD 3.0? *pain* By the way, it's a zero, not a letter 'O'. --~m ^T! 03:19, 5 October 2010 (BST)

---

Riot Shield

Timestamp: Mattiator 02:56, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Item

Scope: Survivors and Zombies

Description: Some of you might remember my infamous suggestions of olde (Dropping and Flare Six-Shot, anyone?), and I haven't suggested much in quite some time. So here we go with something I know I'd like to see. The item is known as a Riot Shield, found in Police Departments. The Riot Shield acts, in essence, as a secondary Flak Jacket when equipped, reducing damage from ALL attacks over 1 damage by 1 damage (so in essence, it doesn't make punches more worthless than they already are). To equip the Riot Shield, click on it, and for 3AP it will become equipped until you die. When you die it will remain in your inventory. Both survivors and zombies can utilize the Riot Shield. However, while the Riot Shield provides several advantages, it also has several huge disadvantages, which apply to both humans and zombies. 1. You cannot use Free Running while having a Riot Shield equipped, due to the awkwardness of holding it out while leaping between buildings. 2. All movement costs are increased by 1 AP (essentially making you as slow as a zombie without Lurching Gait) 3. Accuracy with all weapons (including claws, punch, and bite) is decreased by 10% while the Riot Shield is equipped. (This only applies to the person USING the shield) 4. Zombies cannot attack barricades when the riot shield is equipped 5. Zombies cannot use Tangling Grasp or Feeding Drag with a riot shield equipped 6. Survivors cannot use Syringes when a Riot Shield equipped. 7. When either a zombie or a survivor dies, the Riot Shield is automatically unequipped. Essentially, the Riot Shield is used for defending a position. Survivors can use it for increasing the effectiveness of meatshielding, while zombies would be able to utilize it to reinforce barricade breaches, especially when coupled with a well-timed ?rise. TWEAK #1: Encumbance would be 10%, because it's a large object. TWEAK #2: Now only affects attacks that do ABOVE 2 damage, to reduce newbie nerfing.

Discussion (Riot Shield)

Dupe. Trupe. Quadrupe. Add it to the spam stack too, since this item effectively halves claw attacks from newbie zeds. --Aeon17x 03:08, 30 September 2010 (BST)

RE: Just read through the dupes. Don't exactly see how my suggestion is the same aside from the name. I do agree with the comment on newbie zed nerfing. You think I should perhaps make the item break, or perhaps only work on damage above 2, so as not to nerf newbies. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but the disadvantage affects the person utilizing the shield, not the person attacking the person holding it. Any other ideas for improvement? Mattiator 04:23, 30 September 2010 (BST)

If you make the item break, then that makes it even more of a dupe of the first one. And if you set it to only work on damage above 2, then claw attacks from even veteran zombies with Rend Flesh would only be as effective as that of newbie zombies. Even knives would have higher damage per AP output. --Aeon17x 04:35, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Hmm, Feeling like MW2 and/or hippy days much? --Gat 03:50, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Zombies using items makes no sense. Since meatshielding isn't nearly as important to survivors as forming a beachhead is to zombies, and this doesn't affect the latter at all once you disallow its use for zombies, it effectively becomes useless in practice, and more of a nuisance than an enhancement to the game. —Aichon— 06:20, 30 September 2010 (BST)

RE: But zombies CAN use items, it's just generally useless because their standard attacks are waaaay better. Honestly, I think a zombie would be smart enough to think "Hmmm. I don't want to get shot, so I'll hold this big board-thing in front of me." Also, perhaps have a skill for zombies under the Brain/FleshRot tree so that they aren't screwed over if they didn't get one while alive? Perhaps Memories of Life should be required to use one? And one of the primary reasons for survivors to use it is, say, when they run out of AP in their chosen safehouse, they use a bit of AP to equip their riot shield (like, say, putting over them while they sleep) so that they have more protection, however to do that effectively (unequip in the morning to do things, and put it on at night) would require the survivor to use 6AP, a little more than 1/10th of their full AP capacity. So it's in essence a trade-off, primarily for survivors who are simply camping out in one spot, as opposed to moving around. I'm just trying to continuously improve this suggestion, because I think with a lot of tweaking it could actually work really well. Mattiator 19:05, 30 September 2010 (BST)

3 AP is a little low. Eventually, basically everybody would have a riot shield, and your last AP will always be used to equip it. Killing people just got a lot harder for no reason. Unless it's unequipable after it's equipped, but that doesn't really make any sense. RinKou 07:18, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Do you mean by "Unequipabble after it's equpped", do you mean by someone else or by the user? It can be unequipped by the user, it just is a waste of 3 of their AP when they start and another 3 AP when they end, for a reduced chance to die. Mattiator 17:42, 6 October 2010 (BST)

---

Martial Arts

Timestamp: -Dezonus- (talk) 10:31, 27 September 2010 (BST)

Type: New Skill

Scope: Survivors, Maybe Zombies too

Description: An extension of the Hand to Hand combat skill, survivors can buy a Martial Arts skill. This raises punch strikes to 50% accuracy, gives kick strikes: 2 dam, 30% accuracy, and like a special "Finisher" 3 dam, 25% accuracy, 2 additional AP to stand up (on top of headshot) Maybe the finisher can be another skill, don't know. Also, Zombie Fu! Maybe? Like just as a joke though, I dunno. Sorry if this gets suggested a lot, I just thought it would be cool.

Discussion (Martial Arts)

Alright, so the first major thing to look at is this: This allows survivors to piss on newbie zombies even more? No thanks. 16AP is not a reasonable amount when the newbies need AP the most. Shadok ^{T Balance is power} 10:54, 27 September 2010 (BST)

As above, hell no to taking more AP away from zombies. User:Whitehouse 13:00, 27 September 2010 (BST)

What the fuck is this shit 17:58, 27 September 2010 (BST)

Martial arts is a huge dupe. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:37, 27 September 2010 (BST)

Someone's been playing Street Fighter a little too much. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:58, 27 September 2010 (BST)

You had me until the miniature headshot -_- I personally think it would be awsome for harmanz to use their natural weapons instead of conventional weapons! --Gat 00:14, 28 September 2010 (BST)

I've crossed out the AP, thoughts now? -Dezonus- ^(talk) 00:17, 28 September 2010 (BST)

One word... Yes. --Gat 07:48, 28 September 2010 (BST)

Too trenchie. This game is supposed to be about the struggle to survive, not the quest to kill scores of zombies with your bare hands. Also, I'm against any unarmed survivor attack. --VVV ^RPMBG 02:56, 28 September 2010 (BST)

Only if attacking infects you, in which case this crosses from completely useless survivor skill to completely overpowered DC buff.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:54, 28 September 2010 (BST)

No, When in zombie movies have you ever saw someone going toe to toe with zombies? Nowhere, because that would be suicide. Going up to a zombie is just asking to get eaten. I mean at least with baseball bats and stuff you have some distance away from the zombie, and these weapons will hit harder then you ever will. I dont care if you took 20 years of karate, If I bash you in the head with a baseball bat, or hack at you with a fire axe, or hell even stab you with a knife, you are dead/greiviously injured. Also, theres a reason punches only do one damage. THEY CANT HIT HARD ENOUGH TO PENETRATE THE ZOMBIES SKIN.--TheWritingWriter 01:15, 30 September 2010 (BST)

If you want to pull a DnD thing there... Well then baseball bats, fire axes, and similar blunt and or slashing/blunt weapons should only do half damage :P --Gat 03:52, 30 September 2010 (BST)

---

Duct Tape

Timestamp: --~ 09:00, 25 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Item

Scope: Survivors/Zombies

Description: I was going to put this in humorous but thought it might warrant some legitimate additional development. Duct tape of course has a million uses. I will spare everyone include all of the more ridiculous uses we discussed in IRC tonight and then some. Duct Tape can be found inside factories and mall hardware stores. A roll of duct tape has 6 uses (like pitol clip). Once used six times, it disappears from your inventory. Once you find a roll of duct tape, all other inventory items are instantly dropped. The reason for this is that your character has found a single replacement for all other items; they no longer feel the need to encumber themselves with them. Possible (somewhat serious) uses for duct tape Can be used on players to slow their progress (all movement takes 2 AP as if zombie without Lurching Gait) until removed (costs some AP to remove). Hold corpses to the ground. It takes extra AP to stand up. Can be used like metal pipes, able to cade buildings up to loosely barricaded. When used on ruined buildings, decreases the rate of ruin. More humorous uses for duct tape Mend broken pool cues Tape player's mouths shut. They cannot speak, broadcast groan or bellow until duct tape is removed. Blind players by taping over their eyes. (can't see map or inventory) only action available is remove tape) Create a blunt weapon of it by wrapping it around the end of a newspaper. Can be used as clothing. Zombies can make duct tape helmets, negating the effects of Headshot. Create a life sized mannequin that can be placed at the top of a stack of dead bodies. Revive attempts fail. Carparks can be converted to duct tape forts. It is a loosely barricade building. Christmas trees can be decorated with it. Apply duct tape to the end of a crucifix to make a hammer. Replaces toolbox. Can be used at parks to construct a hammock. Allows you to sleep outside without concern of attack. Zombies can duct tape a human to themselves, giving tangling grasp an 80% boost in probability. Again, most of this is humorous. Some of it warrants a bit of disucussion perhaps. Discussion (Duct Tape) Negates headshot on kiddie zambahs. Look ma, no more holes! --Aeon17x 11:08, 25 September 2010 (BST) Blind players by taping over their eyes. (can't see map or inventory) only action available is remove tape) Only when Ravenous Bugblatter Beasts of Traal get added to UD. -- Spiderzed▋ 11:22, 25 September 2010 (BST) Only if Duct Tape is a universal weapon of choice that can do basically everything any other weapon can, from duct tape catapults, to turning a car park into a duct-tape fort! ... ... ... Cause, you know, Duct Tape is epic! Also duct tape dresses/suits >.> --Gat 15:19, 25 September 2010 (BST) Heh this is probably going to end up being a humorous suggestion. I'm going to keep adding to the possible uses to see how many I can get. Feel free to add a bullet if you think of something to add. --~ 17:11, 25 September 2010 (BST) If there's no duct tape on future-Mars, I don't know if I should support duct tape in Malton. 20:01, 25 September 2010 (BST) The more this becomes humorous, the more I want to post this link Humorous_Suggestions --Gat 06:12, 26 September 2010 (BST) A wild Fun Police appeared! Fun Police stole your carpenter's chainsaw polearm! You cried like a little girl! Fun Police laughed at your misery! You unrolled a yard of duct tape, grabbed the loose end, and used the roll as a morning-star! But it missed, tapping your two hands together! Fun Police attacked you with carpenter's chainsaw polearm for 3 damage! You club Fun Police with your taped-together arms! But it missed! The duct tape roll, following the momentum from your attempted attack, wrapped from the top of Fun Police's head to his crotch, and circled around a few more times, taping your arms to his face! Fun Police attacked you with carpenter's chainsaw polearm! But it missed! Using the tape as support, you climb up Fun Police's body until your feet meet your hands upon his head, and you strangle him with your feet for 10 damage. Fun Police attacked you with carpenter's chainsaw polearm for 3 damage! You jump off Fun Police's head, and use the tape to slam your feet into his head! But it missed, and you flopped onto the ground for 10 damage! Fun Police attacked you with carpenter's chainsaw polearm! Critical hit! 6 damage! From your horizontal position, you throw Fun Police over your head and down the stairs for 50 damage! They die! You fall down as well for 20 damage! You say "TF! I forgot I was taped to his face!" You say "How am I supposed to dump the body!?!" Fun Police rose from the dead as a zombie! You say "O.o" You drag the zombie into the bathroom! The zombie mauled you for 3 damage! You search and find nothing! You search and find nothing! The zombie mauled you for 3 damage! You search and find nothing! Searching the area, you find hairspray! The zombie mauled you for 3 damage! You search and find nothing! The zombie mauled you for 3 damage! You search and find nothing! You search and find nothing! The zombie mauled you for 3 damage! Searching the area, you find a lighter! You attack the zombie with flamethrower for 5 damage! The zombie is now aflame! The zombie mauled you for 3 damage! You are now aflame! You will take 5 damage for every action, except screaming! You panic! You burn for 5 damage. You toast. VVV RPMBG said ":P" (20:21, 26 September 2010 (BST)) Wait a second... Why does the survivor get 65 HP >.> --Gat 01:46, 27 September 2010 (BST) Simply having duct tape in your inventory grants an extra 5HP ~ 03:36, 27 September 2010 (BST) Uhm, ok so I've moved this over to Humorous Suggestions. What's next? Do I delete it from DS? --~ 14:50, 28 September 2010 (BST) If you want to, it'll get cleared out within a week or so anyways though. --Gat 23:00, 28 September 2010 (BST) Unlimited AP Timestamp: TheWritingWriter 02:56, 24 September 2010 (BST) Type: Game Change Scope: Everyone Description: Ok, I know this has no chance of ever happening, but it's still fun to discuss the possibilities. What if Urban Dead had Unlimited AP? You could play it like a normal MMORPG.And like a normal MMORPG, once you log out, your character dissapears and wont reappear untill you log back in. I think this idea would be fun, I know it doesnt have a chance in hell of ever happeneing, and would require ALOT of work and possibly an entirely different server, but what do you guys think? Discussion (Unlimited AP) ...Get out. Now. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 03:06, 24 September 2010 (BST) Your wish is granted, but as expected the current server won't take the load. Kevan sets it up in a new city on another server, this time it's pay to play. Only $15 a month! --Aeon17x 03:22, 24 September 2010 (BST) With unlimited AP I wouldn't get off, and that would be a problem... Still, it could be an interesting concept. 15$ a month though is outrageous though, minecraft only charges 10$ once >.> --Gat 04:36, 24 September 2010 (BST) Oh, you play Minecraft? I heard a lot about that, it's very popular on the LUE forums at present. Hopefully our creator gets some ideas from his playthrough of it. --Aeon17x 07:54, 24 September 2010 (BST) There'd be some lovely seiges, but, as mentioned above, the vast majority of the wiki regulars and a massive number of others in game would never log off. This suggestion would ruin too many lives.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 08:26, 24 September 2010 (BST) How do you decide when someone logs off? By the actual log out action, or something else? How would zombies find anyone to eat? How would buildings remain intact with no one there to meatshield? How would zombies hold ruins with no one there to block repairs? A change like this essentially makes the game much more boring and much less meaningful, since you'd see far less people and would interact with those that you did see in a much MUCH more volatile environment, which is bad for everyone. —Aichon— 08:40, 24 September 2010 (BST) Also, barricades would become meaningless, since they would serve no purpose, but survivors would still have to wait on others before they could be revived, so while zombies could go on rampages and kill every survivor in the game with essentially no way for the survivors to defend, survivors couldn't even get revives going without some level of advanced coordination. —Aichon— 08:43, 24 September 2010 (BST) Ah! But then we could introduce NPCs to do those things for us! And to sort out the flavour issues of having no zombies or survivors at any given time, we could reset it in a fantasy theme. That would also get rid of the need for revives; everyone would be a living human! We wouldn't have buildings or barricades, we'd just have a big map with a couple of towns and loads of creatures! So yeah, basically Runescape.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 08:46, 24 September 2010 (BST) Sounds more like scroll wars with the monsters and everyone being human, well assuming it remains with the similar system to right now. (played that game once, it was ok...)--Gat 23:13, 24 September 2010 (BST) Eh, it was just an idea I thought it would be fun. I wish Urban Dead was like runescape though, that would be interesting.--TheWritingWriter 20:34, 24 September 2010 (BST) I wish Runescape was like urban dead.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 20:51, 24 September 2010 (BST) I wish Urban Dead was like Pokemon. =P --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 20:35, 26 September 2010 (BST) Zombie piñatas will be easier than ever to make! ~m T! 03:26, 5 October 2010 (BST) Stockpiles Timestamp: Tabbitha Duo 12:20, 23 September 2010 (BST) Type: building add-on Scope: all, mainly aimed at siege warfare Description: Right, this was inspired by economics.. so uhm... I sorta have to go into the theory behind it a bit, I promise not to bore you too much. Currently, in UD, if a survivor wants something, they must provide it themselves, they physically, must go to the TRP and search for that object, then go back, this is somewhat of a.... waste of AP, in terms of how effecient it could be really. So instead of trying to be a subsistence economy, where survivors work purely for themselves (heals cades and gennies excluded) what about having a 'stock pile' item, maybe call it a storage locker, and make it show up in factories, malls and auto-repair locations with a percentage chance equivelent (roughly anyway) to the generator search percentage at this location. And here's how it works: Upon using a storage locker in a location without one the message will be displayed: 'you clunk down the locker to help keep supplies fresh and off of the floor' and on a tangent you can have errors for dark and ruined buildings: 'you can't find anywhere stable to put the locker down' (ruined) 'in spite of trying to put it down, no one can actually see supplies in the locker' (dark) Then, when set up, it essentially acts like a public inventory. It costs 1AP to deposit one item, and one AP to withdraw (and anyone can withdraw, it's a public service) Now, before you go off saying that doesn't make sense, imagine if you had a hospital under seige. So, you have a group ready with ammo to repel any break throughs, but off course, after every break through, they have to go back to the PD, spending AP, search, spending AP and then return, spending AP that they may well need to just do their job and fight. So you set up a supply locker instead, and can get someone without a real job as it stands (ie, lower level players)to go fetch the ammo, saving AP for the actual matter at hand. It even works in the same location, say a hospital, if you have one surgeon taking FAK's out of the locker while another two helpers just hunt down the FAK's the surgeon has spent less AP. So basicly, it's a suggestion aimed at making it so survivors working together, are more effecient. The final part I would put is that if anyone takes out an item you put in (IE something useful and needed) you gain a single XP, this is to positively enforce placing useful goods inside rather than trash that wastes space (without say, forcing people who REALLY want to have a newspaper collection locker, to give up their bizzare dreams) Thank you, first suggestion so I hope I filled in the form okay. Discussion (Stockpiles) Is there anything that stops a jerk taking all the supplies? Is there anything that will stop multi abuse (I create two level 1 characters and supply them with my level 40+ character)? User:Whitehouse 13:53, 23 September 2010 (BST) While this might be the sort of thing that would happen in a real-life zombie apocalypse, having stockpiles in this game would lead to multi-abuse, as Whitehouse has already pointed out. You could specify that only members of your group could store/take items form a particular pile, but even then that could still be abused as the zerger could add his little pets to the group (see User:Rosslessness/Hmm). If there was a way this could be prevented, this may be worth looking into. ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ talk 14:25, 23 September 2010 (BST) Can I burn the stockpile and kill everyone in the room from asphyxiation? --Aeon17x 14:34, 23 September 2010 (BST) Try playing Shintolin. It has stockpiles. They are broken. It's not so much of an issue with zergers, as much as it is an issue with them promoting raiders and bandits. Shintolin doesn't punish bandits for what they do, so they absolutely flourish in the game, since they can roam from village to village, raiding and pillaging as they go along. I'd expect the same to happen here. —Aichon— 17:34, 23 September 2010 (BST) Good Idea, however it has to much potential for abuse.--TheWritingWriter 20:22, 23 September 2010 (BST) This idea is getting a lot better feedback then went I suggested it! (it got turned down by about 5 people in the first couple hours) --Gat 04:38, 24 September 2010 (BST) Right... to stop abuse, part of that is the 1AP cost, which means that aggressive survivors still have to pay some cost to pick items up (while it doesn't prevent multi, to be honest, if I have to argue how a suggestion in UD can't be abused by multi, I'm gonna loose XD). As for locking it... hmm, I dunno, only if you could have multiple (say 3) supply lockers in an area, and make it so they disappear if empty and uninteracted with for a certain period. Yes, PKers could destroy stock piles as well, but as for burning htem... naaah :P --Tabbitha Duo 15:45, 24 September 2010 (BST) (and apologies Kakashi, I wasn't aware it had being suggested) I like the idea in theory but as stated above, it has potential for abuse. I can't really think of a way around that. The 1AP cost wouldn't be too much of a deterrent, I'm afraid. If you develop a way around potential abuse, I think it would be a decent suggestion. --~ 16:58, 24 September 2010 (BST) Oh uhm... pass word the locker? Or... sigh... UD's groups aren't exclusive (in game terms) to use them to lock stuff away really. But, in the same way gennies are a public service to keep going, so would lockers be, these aren't lockers for just you, it's for everone involved in that building. In other words, I have no idea of a method that would eliminate abuse without simultaneously prevent them being used for what they should be. Which I suppose would (in the case of implementation) be just something you'd have to deal with, you needn't put down things in a stockpile unless you feel the need and if your co-ordinating with group members there's nothing to stop you from either both being on at the same time to essentially 'trade' items or to designate an out of the way building as an emergency supply and politely graffiti the consequences of people stealing from your stock pile (you could, as unfluffy as it would be, make it so the stockpiles setter can always see who used it). On the note of zergers providing for their mini zergers, I'll say (and stress) that zerging is a pretty big factor in UD, and it's difficult for me to really well... fix my suggestion against that flaw. One way I suppose you could do it is count the players locker as that player for IP detection and anti-zerg measure purposes. --Tabbitha Duo 20:28, 24 September 2010 (BST) Alright, on a brighter note... It's a community chest basically, like featured in some nwn servers. It would be filled with complete junk players wanted to get rid of, and would have the occasional valuable item... Could be interesting, and those types of things have been useful in the past games I've played. --Gat 23:17, 24 September 2010 (BST) Couldnt you put some sort of limit on it? Like the locker can only be acessed X amount of times from the same IP address?--TheWritingWriter 23:58, 24 September 2010 (BST) The IP address is a good idea, but uhm... it'd have to be at least 50 times a day so a guy with just 1 char could use it however much he wanted. As a point to junk being there, that's one of the reasons it gives XP when someone removes your items to encourage more useful items while still not preventing people having odd collections of things (because to me an integral part of UD is how much random the community inspires when presented with the mechanics)--Tabbitha Duo 10:34, 25 September 2010 (BST) Too abusable - This game would need anti-zerging countermeasures of Nexus War's calibre before anything like this can be implemented. (Hint, hint, Kevan. Talk to Jorm!) ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 07:32, 28 September 2010 (BST) i could be talking something no sense but i heard that if a zed with a "zerg flag" try to destroy a barrier it becomes a lot harder to him do it...so if there is an zerg flag something like that it could make impossible to use the stockpile-omada {17:35 ,29 september 2012 (est)} Yeah, but most zergs use proxies, so they're unaffected.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 22:39, 29 September 2010 (BST) Suggestions up for voting Spreading Infection Moved to Suggestion talk:20101011 Spreading Infection --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 18:07, 11 October 2010 (BST) Darts Moved to Suggestion talk:20101003 Darts --~~ Chief Seagull ~~ talk 08:37, 3 October 2010 (BST) Moaning Zombies Moved to Suggestion talk:20101002 Zombie Moan  Swiers 06:25, 2 October 2010 (BST)