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Where's my "diagnosis" skill?

Call it a lame question, but my diagnosis skill doesn't work as described. It's meant to show HP values of survovors, but I see nothing like that: neither on the map nor in profiles. What's wrong with it? Pamejudd 18:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)pamejudd

Check it again after making sure you purchased it and refresh the page. If it still doesn't work, go to Bug Reports. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 18:53, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Also make sure you are not standing in a dark building. HP values inside unlit Banks, Cinemas, Clubs, and Fort Armouries will not be displayed. ~ 19:01, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Thx for your fast replies, guys. None of the above helped, though: I'm standing in a hospital and refreshed the page seral times. Bah! I even tried another browser to be sure... Pamejudd 19:21, 14 December 2010 (UTC)pamejudd

Questions

I'm not really sure where I should be asking the following questions so if I'm in the wrong spot, let me know. Thanks :)

Anyway, I have two questions about Malton and its suburbs.

1. What is the layout of Malton like? I know it's composed of suburbs and bordered to the north by the river Kevan and mountain ranges as well as a forest to the east. I'm mainly referring to the actual layout of the suburbs. Are they compact and tightly knit together like a city block or spread out and interwoven with rivers and fields? It's kind of an odd question, but I'm curious because I've seen pictures of England and it's styled differently than New York and I don't know if the city of Malton is merely a regional name containing suburbs like London, or if it's like New York with each city block being a suburb.

2. Are suburb names like Stanbury Village and Foulkes Village merely a play-on-words like New York's Greenwich Village, or are they actual small-town villages like the fictional village of Sandford in the movie, Hot Fuzz?

I'm sorry if there's any confusion. Typing logically with a headache don't go hand-in-hand together. --TheBardofAwesome 05:16, 4 September 2010 (BST)

I like to think of it as an old and 'naturally' evolving city like London or Dublin, where it's tightly packed but uneven, as opposed to the regulated and ordered layout of new cities like New York or Sydney. While it fits on a grid, it's only for convenience sake, and is probably pretty irregular in layout. As for the second point, I'd say it's a halfway point between the two - cities often grow to consume outlying towns, and it's quite concievable that Stanbury and Foulkes were border towns that are now blended right into the sprawl of greater Malton. 07:33, 4 September 2010 (BST)

I kind of agree, villages swallowed up by urban sprawl over time. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:14, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Haha, this is fucking hilarious. Because from a roleplaying point that is an amazing thought, though honestly, as if it isn't just completely random. -- LEMON #1 10:44, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Malton is real! Im actually watching one of its residents on television now. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:45, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Wait, what? Isn't malton randomly laid out? -- LEMON #1 12:19, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Sorry about the wait, I've been busy with class. I'm pretty sure Malton is randomly laid out as I've noticed that street patterns in suburbs don't match up as well as some malls and buildings being placed too close to each other. I just don't think that if Malton was planned out, there'd be such a great number of malls located some ten blocks from each other. --TheBardofAwesome 16:12, 28 September 2010 (BST)

It's randomly placed, but it's based on Malton in Yorkshire. Some building names or suburb designs may have been arbitrarily based on things, but it seems random to me.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:09, 28 September 2010 (BST)

Building status template, modified for revive points

Thoughts? -- LEMON #1 11:46, 14 September 2010 (BST)

Funny you should mention. I've been playing around with the source past few days. I'm trying to figure out a way to display number of days at current status. I like the idea of a revive point status except that a good chunk of RPs are not actually buildings.~ 14:59, 14 September 2010 (BST)

Supplement U:DR with a side project, User:RevivePoint or whatever, which functions pretty similarly only it has status images for indoor, outdoor and rot revive, and is generally updated with queue lengths. Can be added to outdoor pages to finally give some of them a bit of use. 15:03, 14 September 2010 (BST)

The templates used on the RP List can be used on those pages, and we also have a Template:RevivePointBox that a few pages use (almost never updated though) which auto categorizes into Category:Revive point. Just saying it exists, I'm not supporting it. Also bear in mind that the revive request tool currently relies on the RP List for its data so you can't futz around with it much.

Also if anybody supports that "User:RevivePoint" is a good way to name these pages I will murder them. --  RoosterDragon  17:20, 14 September 2010 (BST)

I was giving a lot of thought to this recently for an unrelated/nonexistent reason, and while I did throw around quite a few different ideas, the only one I could definitively settle on was that I wanted to name these pages with "User:RevivePoint". Thoughts? Concerns? —Aichon— 21:12, 14 September 2010 (BST)

Why would we continue to use the User namespace? The only reason it was initially implemented like that was because no one on the wiki knew about templates at the time. -- LEMON #1 06:15, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Though I would support it just for consistency's sake. I'll get to work on an example code sometime. -- LEMON #1 06:20, 15 September 2010 (BST)

It was a sarcastic comment made to poke fun at Rooster. See my edit comment. Yes, my humor is stupid, but it's mine, dangit! —Aichon— 07:38, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Ha ha, I'd still prefer you making the jokes than no-joke-aichon, even if no one gets them :D -- LEMON #1 08:02, 15 September 2010 (BST)

I'd like thoughts on the variables now. What do we think should appear on the template? Rather than an imagerised-status like "safe" or "under siege" one used for the Mall/Building status, I think numbers should do instead, regarding how many zombies are there?

|Number=

|Comment=

|User=

Thoughts? -- LEMON #1 06:20, 15 September 2010 (BST)

I'm rather fond of the style used on List of Revivification Points (such as User:RevivePointUpdate/Rhodenbank). We could alter this template style to the BIC style, and have the variables as

|Status= (Active, Slow, Dangerous, Unknown)
|Comment= Comment, numbers
|User= Sig

I'd support the use of a status image/light over simply stating as the number is liable to rapidly change while the overall status will remain relatively constant in the short run. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 06:40, 15 September 2010 (BST)

The best thing about updating building statuses is that you can update them from looking once and just buggering off. To see whether a revvie point is slow or dangerous you'd have to spend at least 24 hours there. Leave that for the comments IMO, and have a numbers bar for the quantitative stuff that "Safe/Under Siege/In Zombie Hands" used to deal with IMO -- LEMON #1 06:45, 15 September 2010 (BST)

|ReviveRequestLink=

|Status=

Pretty much a hybrid of RP List and Building Status is what you're thinking, right? ~ 06:44, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Please tell me nobody's actually considering putting a DEM tool, which largely doesn't work in most areas of Malton, on 1000s of wiki pages?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:50, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Doesn't work? That's new to me, the tool's features are working just fine. If you were referring to requests that aren't served due to a lack of revivers, then putting a link on more pages would actually solve this ;-) I think we can all agree that a city-wide tool for managing revives can indeed be useful (as long as it works and is maintained), regardless of whether it's coming from the DEM or any other organization, right? G F J 13:47, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I've tried it numerous times (I have at least one request up now) and I've never encountered anyone reviving from it. We should have links to local revive requests, not some stupid autonomous group claiming their active everywhere and that their revive tool is more important than the local ones which will actually get you revived.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:54, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I'm sorry if so far you were unlucky using the tool to get revives for your own characters. Others have made different experiences, though, and I seem to be unable to find a request from you that's still on the tool? Regarding that stupid autonomous group, well, that does sound a bit like the usual anti-DEM stuff, with "evil DEM oppressors" and all those unbacked claims. And no, we are not claiming to be everywhere, by the way. Anyway, discussing the DEM is not what this page should be about I believe, so if you'd like to continue that, let's meet elsewhere :-) In the meantime, allow me to ask you to perhaps judge the features of the revive tool itself (the way you would judge it if it came from a different group than the DEM) instead of judging the group it created. Thank you, G F J 16:51, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I am judging the features of the revive tool. It doesn't work. If I see links to your revive request tool on the dulston pages, I'll remove them because they have no right being there. Your group do4esn't operate in the area, and your revive tool shouldn't be linked there. it fucks with newbies who could actually get a revive if they went to the right people.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:20, 16 September 2010 (BST)

Take the discussion elsewhere much? It's a tangential issue that can be handled on talk pages. Adding RP templates to the actual location pages and suburb pages will be a big help to everyone, which is what we're getting at here. Any other benefits that groups may derive are a separate discussion. —Aichon— 19:29, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I have no issues with a template, but giving a group's tool a link on 1000s of pages is BS.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 19:52, 16 September 2010 (BST)

hurdles

I didn't know the RP List page was up and a status system already in place, so this is somewhat redundant. Although, the only reason I wanted one was that I felt having one at the top of the page for a revive point would help people a lot more. Like, dude, I've been on this wiki every day for 2 years and I didn't even know about the RP list :/

So I have a quick Q about the RP list system and how it could be implemented into a top of the page, Dangerreport-like template: When you update an RP list entry, does that carry over to say, User:RevivePointUpdate/Rhodenbank? If so, I assume we could manipulate a smaller template to be used at the top of each RP's page? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DanceDanceRevolution (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Actually, you have it backwards. In your Rhodenbank example, you have to change it in order to have the main list update. As Maverick has been encouraging use of the district system, and as the district pages have been coming online over the last few weeks and months, folks setting up those pages have been moving the individual revive points off of the main list page and into templates for each suburb. Unfortunately, that doesn't give you the level of granularity you're looking for, since you want templates for individual revive points, which we really don't have, and I'm not entirely sure we should have it either, since revive points come and go, depending on groups in the area and whatnot, unlike TRPs or other locations that are defined by the game itself. —Aichon— 08:11, 15 September 2010 (BST)

That's also one of the issues with this recent system though- no one updates or keeps track of a system they don't even know exists- for most of the revive point pages there is nothing to indicate that they feature on an update-able list of revive points at all, and that they have status updates... People need to know such a thing exists and that it's there to be used. Some of it hasn't been updated in a year and a half... I didn't even know it existed... Wouldn't the better method be to have a system similar to the Danger report where the status lies on a template on the individual pages, and the reports on there are called onto portal pages which have all the categorised revive points? That way they are findable and updateable via where they actually are on the UDWiki map, rather than searching through "revive points" on the wiki. -- LEMON #1 08:29, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Possibly (I'm too tired to form an opinion at the moment). Two problems however: the current formatting of the RP list (specifically the yellow and white rows that alternate) will break if you put it on individual pages unless you want to be changing a lot of pages with updates for purely stylistic reasons, and it'll mean putting things that are not actually a formal aspect of those locations on those pages, as I mentioned previously. Personally, I don't consider the first an issue, since we can redesign the RP list so that it looks more like a BIC and isn't an issue. The second one is a philosophical issue, and, as I said, I don't have the energy to make an opinion right now. —Aichon— 08:49, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Yeah I'm finding this hard too - this involves coding and template knowledge beyond my abilities and and even then I still don't know the basics of how it works atm cause I haven't looked deeply yet. When I do I might be able ot help out more. -- LEMON #1 08:59, 15 September 2010 (BST)

I've had musings about how to deal with RPs for a while because I was annoyed at how they show up in so many places but aren't linked so nothing matches up. (such as: RP List, Suburb TRP List, Suburb Maps, Cade Plans, Individual Pages, RP Category...) Basically you're kinda boned because they're liable to change a whole bunch. So at the end of the day I say you keep the RP List since it's all in one place, it works and the DEM tool relies on it, and instead you try and remove some redundancy and get more links pointing to the list. For example the worthless template and category can go, and if you do have a list per suburb, you can get that to appear on suburb pages in some fashion. Chuck a link in the "Information Pages" section (see this musing on suburb pages in my sandbox) of each suburb page and you're getting somewhere.

The RP List has been there forever and worked fine. Just get some links going. --  RoosterDragon  18:12, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Help ddr make a template that shows individual locations RP status from the RP list on the top of individual pages??? pleeeeaseee? -- LEMON #1 05:05, 16 September 2010 (BST)

For what you're suggesting, I could see posting the suburb listing on top of the page working. So you could, say, post User:RevivePointUpdate/Rhodenbank on the top of The Upshall Monument, Orome Avenue, and the one graveyard no one ever uses. It would save quite a bit of template work (other than making sure each suburb had a listing), and could even be recycled on the suburb BIC pages, the main RP List, and other related pages. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 05:15, 16 September 2010 (BST)

You could include it wholesale. Alternatively, maybe use display:none to hide anything that doesn't match the page title (so only that page's RP info was shown). Would need some reworking, sure, but I think it's crazy enough to work. However, the following condition must be met. NO USER PAGES. Instead, they would all be moved to another set of pages. I guess maybe the same scheme as suburb BICs? --  RoosterDragon  05:44, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I like RHO's idea actually, sounds good man! -- LEMON #1 05:46, 16 September 2010 (BST)

The problem I have with it is that it makes no sense to include a template on a page simply because someone has decided to give it an arbitrarily designation (i.e. why does this block get it, but not that other one?). And who would actually maintain those templates as RPs come and go? That said, Rooster's idea (coupled with RHO's) would do the trick beautifully (and would give all of you location demerge folks a new job to keep busy with :P). We could add the RP list for each suburb to every block in the suburb, then configure it to only show a listing if the block the page is for actually shows up in the template (as per Rooster's genius idea). Should be quite doable, would maintain consistency across pages, would have a one-time setup cost, and wouldn't involve the maintenance nightmare of having to add and remove a template from location blocks as RPs come and go. In fact, it would add no additional maintenance at all once it was set up. Heck, we may even be able to include it in one of the existing templates that goes on location pages. Dunno, since I don't work with them much. —Aichon— 06:27, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I'm up for anything, I'm only apprehensive about going forward with things that are beyond my knowledge because it limits the input and help I can give to progress the project. I like all these current ideas. I just think a revive point status ON the location pages is a good idea is all. I've come to the pages from suburb a LOT and hoped there would be some sort of indication of whether the revive point is used or not. -- LEMON #1 06:40, 16 September 2010 (BST)

Sorry, the last two sentences were poorly explained, I was responding to your decision of the arbitrary nature of it all. Well, IMO the RP List and all the work done around that has done a good work at unifying all designated revive points under an informative and generally accepted banner. I've yet to go to a suburb page, attend an RP in-game as listed by the wiki and NOT find it an RP, in the last few months at least, with any alts. -- LEMON #1 06:43, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I think it's a good idea too, but my qualms were always about the implementation of it, which have now been figured out. Implemented as specified, it should be a simple matter of including the suburb RP list templates on each block for every suburb. Rooster or myself will have to work some magic with {{If equal}} (unless someone else feels up to it), but I already have similar stuff in use on BB3 and some more advanced stuff like that on the SoC pages (visiting certain pages will result in some changes to the header, but the same template is used for them all), so this shouldn't be too hard at all. We really should redesign the look of the main RP List before we do any of this other stuff, however, since we can't keep the yellow/white striping if we want this to work. —Aichon— 06:54, 16 September 2010 (BST)

Plus you'll have to test it to make sure whatever HTML gets churned out can still be worked by the revive tool. Also, what design are people expecting for the location pages? Just putting up the template as it is? Pretty much anything is possible here. We could just add a sentence to the locationblock saying "This is a revive point. It is active." if people wanted minimalist. Go think crazy things, it can probably be done. --  RoosterDragon  07:07, 16 September 2010 (BST)

This is a nice discussion. One question about the if equal code, though: The way you're intending to use it, would it go into a page such as User:RevivePointUpdate/Hollomstown (i. e. be on the RP list as well since the RPs are included with {{User:RevivePointUpdate/Hollomstown}}) or would it go into the location pages, like Cemetery 66,97, not affecting the RP list at all? If it's the first case, I would appreciate it if prior to changing everything we could create a temporary copy of how the "new" RP list would be like, enabling us to carry out some tests with the Revivification Request Manager and see if there are any problems. Since the tool is indeed used by a notable number of players (often, the number of active requests is kept small not because there simply is no one using it but because served requests are quickly removed; they are checked every two hours), I believe that it's also in the interest of the community to ensure that the tool will continue to fetch data about revive points, their status, maintainers, and so on. Regarding the redesign, by the way, in the worst case we could simply strip the current two-color-scheme and revert to a single color for all entries; while of course it's a lot better with more than one color, it's not the end of the world and it shouldn't decrease the usefulness of a central RP list too strongly. G F J 13:47, 16 September 2010 (BST)

Any redesign would likely go through some draft phases where we'd mock things up, though, since the wiki is independent of DEM and operates on its own timeline (which isn't determined by us or any policy, but rather merely by anyone who is actively contributing when they are able to do so), the wiki may not wait if DEM's tools need to be redesigned before moving forward with a new design here. I don't say that to be rude or dismissive, but rather just honest and forward about the way things work. And yes, my take is that the code would go on pages like User:RevivePointUpdate/Hollomstown (though we may finally make a point of moving it out of the user namespace?), that way it would have an "update once, appear everywhere" functionality to it. If people have to update the same information in multiple locations for it to work, then it simply won't work. —Aichon— 17:33, 16 September 2010 (BST)

… Please, no more pointless faux-userspace stuff. Danger reports should always have been under plain Danger Report. IF we're going to make a new set of pages for Revive Point status, for fuck's sake do it the right way from the beginning this time! ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 17:15, 20 September 2010 (BST)

I haven't read everything here yet, but I am going with Revenant on this one. No new faux userspace. More thoughts as I read things. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 08:38, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Style Ideas

In the interest of actually getting some feedback from everybody, rather than sitting here arguing technical details, I've knocked up some horrible horrible code to show off a few examples. Example location page the BuildingStatus-esque header is currently using the display:none trick to only show the RP for that page. I've also hardcoded a couple of other ideas onto the locationblock section. They're just rough scribbles, and we can easily add remove bits from them or adjust stuff. Think of them as "we could have something sort of ish here". The RP being displayed because it matches the title is being taken from the suburb list of RPs, and being formatted with the building-status-esque template, which again need look nothing like that.

So we can add the RP list for each suburb to any page we want, and get it to display however we want. But first

• Do we need to actually change the system at all? (different variables or new statuses or something)
• How do you want it to look on locations pages? (any ideas welcome)
• How do you want the RP list to look? (that's different from right now)

Ideas, people. Gogogo. --  RoosterDragon  13:51, 22 September 2010 (BST)

Not big on the revive request link.

I like the addition to the location basic info, but it should be called location, not building, since most RPs are outside anyway.

I think dangerous is not applicable to RPs, and should be removed. --VVV ^RPMBG 02:59, 23 September 2010 (BST)

I like it all, but as TripleU, remove the revive request link. I assumed that dangerous was for rotters in the revive queue though. If not, what is it? And on that note, is there some kind of special notice for rot revives?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 08:49, 27 September 2010 (BST)

Dead tired right now since I didn't get much sleep last night, but I will look into whatever you've put together and will get back to you at some point. My head has been spinning with various ideas for entire architectural redesigns of the suburb map, suburb, and location page systems and templates for the last few days as a result of this general conversation. Seems to me that if we want to redo any of them, this is the perfect opportunity to do so, since we're already talking about editing every single suburb page and location page. I've been trying to come up with some comprehensive and robust ideas that would future-proof things as well, but haven't had time to get much into it yet. And I'm sure we'll be bouncing around a lot of designs over the coming days and weeks here... —Aichon— 05:05, 23 September 2010 (BST)

Grave Diggers?

Rumbling around the southern region of Malton, I've noticed many buildings with external and internal graffiti claiming them in the name of a group or gang called the Grave Diggers. Searching around the wiki, it turns out that the Grave Diggers played a part in several events, but other than that, I got nothing. My question is, is the Grave Diggers group still active or are these buildings just silent reminders of the past?

Also, is it particularly frowned upon or discouraged to take ownership of buildings that have been designated, in the past, the headquarters of groups such as The Umbrella Corporation?

I just don't want to be treading on the toes and turf of a group that is still in action. --TheBardofAwesome 01:28, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Easy. Inactive since 2008. See here, here, and here. Contact this guy for more info. --VVV ^RPMBG 01:38, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Alright, but from the looks of the Urban Sombrero discussion page, is he even still around? There's a lot of anger and words being sent in those comments. --TheBardofAwesome 01:47, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Looks like he ragequit, but I'm sure he wouldn't care about the group either way. --VVV ^RPMBG 01:52, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Alrighty, then. Thanks for clarifying. --TheBardofAwesome 01:58, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Regarding the taking over of buildings, there is no set procedure, it all depends on your group and the group who 'owns' or maintains the building and how they typically like to communicate. They may shoot you, they may bluff and try and coerce you to leave with threats, or they may just discuss it with you. Once when I made the ATO, we had friendly competitions with TZH over who could keep Kersley Mansion the safest so we could claim we owned it. The DA also gave us a building once to maintain under their roster, but we folded after zeds took it for a week (our group was hilariously inept cause we were all just irl mates having a laugh). I've just waltzed in and taken over buildings before while the group who 'owns' it is still operating, they take it none too kindly but everything can usually be solved with words. I guess the point of those little stories were to demonstrate that I've done a lot of building stealing/adopting and they are always a dynamic experience with different results. Just see how it goes. -- LEMON #1 02:58, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Alrighty, thanks for the reply. Yeah, there's a building I have my eye on, but before I make myself at home, I gotta repair it. <3 zombies but they really are a nuisance sometimes. --TheBardofAwesome 04:48, 4 October 2010 (BST)

They feel the same way about you. ;) —Aichon— 05:32, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Of course, but probably more so head shots :P --TheBardofAwesome 06:46, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Archiving of Historical Group Nominations

Currently the archives for Cat:HG are done simply on two page, a successful archive and a failed archive. I want them done by group, similar to how promotions archives are handled. That would lead to archive pages looking like Category talk:Historical Groups/VoteArchive/Flowers of Disease or Category talk:Historical Groups/VoteArchive/(To The) Four Winds, etc. The root page Category talk:Historical Groups/VoteArchive would be a simple index page listing passed and failed nominations under two headers, chronologically (or perhaps in a sortable table so name, date, etc could be sorted). I will do all the grunt work needed for this myself so don't worry about it being a chore. Oppposed? Against? 04:46, 18 October 2010 (BST)

Definitely for. The A/PM approach scales better and is cleaner to look through afterwards. The current Passed and Failed archives are a real bear to use and, increasingly, to maintain. —Aichon— 04:49, 18 October 2010 (BST)

Plus large pages full of years worth of sigs is a recipe for disaster. 04:50, 18 October 2010 (BST)

I disagree just on the grounds that it isn't anywhere near as easy to maintain as the current Failed and Passed system at all- with what we have now, you just copy and paste. With the proposed system, you'd have to make a new page- ensuring that it's spelled correctly or changed accordingly if an existing archive has already been made for the same group, then copy it, then categorise it and then link it from what I assume will be a category page. Not to mention make sure it's protected (might as well, it won't be tampered with again). Doesn't sound easier to me at all.

As for the signatures, it isn't supposed to look pretty so I don't see what the big problem is tbh (although you are right, but all that means is that when the sigs break you make a new Passed or Failed archive and start afresh). As long as you fix the links accordingly (internal links will need to be redirected to the specific archive they mention) I guess you could do it, though there really is no problem with doing it the way it is now... BTW you might as well fix up the Battle of Blackmore/Historical Event Voting and stuff like those while you're at it ;) . -- LEMON #1 05:53, 18 October 2010 (BST)

Any other thoughts on this from anyone? 03:45, 25 October 2010 (BST)

Dick butt? 03:04, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Possible change to DangerMap?

As some of you may have seen, a few of us assembled together a map of Malton's suburbs, naming them in Zamgrh rather than in English. We also discussed the idea of changing the DangerMap template on {{DangerMap}} to display the suburb's Zamgrh name instead of its English name if its danger report status is red or orange. This could easily be achieved using the same code as {{Mall Logo}}, and is intended to serve the same purpose. Of course, these names are unofficial, but at the same time, so is the entire functionality of the DanderMap itself. Basically this would add a degree of flavour to the template, and also somewhat balance out the template's clear survivor-oriented tilt by a smidgen. Thoughts? 03:04, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Afraid I'm against it. The danger map is to serve as a reference, and many newbies use it as well. Having the actual names of the suburbs, as given in-game, clearly displayed on the map is of the utmost importance. I also wouldn't call it survivor bias if the names are merely what's reflected in-game, since it's just fact then. The idea fascinates me, to be sure, but the way it undermines usability makes it something we shouldn't do. —Aichon— 03:09, 27 October 2010 (BST)

It's more the functionality of it that's slanted - "moderately/very dangerous", etc are only applicable to one side - the DangerReport statuses are much better, with "in zombie hands" or "under siege", etc. Of course there's always ways to display it so that the English name still stays - striked through or within a span title, for instance. 03:11, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Take a cue from Sears and add a link? "Switch to Zamgrh". Maybe even change the danger level colors up for the Zamgrh Map. ~ 05:28, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Sounds like something that would never be edited, and become outdated rather fast. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:50, 27 October 2010 (BST)

It could be configured to provide different colors for the zombie map (e.g. reverse all of them). It wouldn't need to be updated separately at all. I've already done similarish things with other maps, such as for BB3 or my PKer's suburbs that he's killed in. This isn't a technical issue at all, though I imagine I'd be the one that would have to rig it up. It's strictly an aesthetic and usability issue, as far as I can see. —Aichon— 07:40, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Actually, looking at it some more, I think it might take an entire rewrite of the DangerMap in order to implement a change of this sort. While I have done things of this sort, it'd mean working from the ground up on a new system, rather than reusing what we already have. —Aichon— 23:19, 27 October 2010 (BST)

I assume it's possible based on what we have. I tried putting it together here and here, but made a hames of it. I asked Rooster what was wrong, but I think the set-up will work once the switch is sorted out. I figured that the alternate map could sit underneath the DangerMap on the Suburbs page, not overshadowing it but there for people to see and use. 23:22, 27 October 2010 (BST)

If it were to be on the suburb page, I would support it being linked here, and nothing else. What purpose does the zamgrh map serve that give it the special privlege to appear on the suburb page instead of maps like Template:SuburbInformationCenterMap or External Military Report Map, both of which have genuinly useful purposes?

As I've said, the map would be great on Barhah or linked to (as all the other special-interest maps are); it doesn't deserve special treatment. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 00:08, 28 October 2010 (BST)

I like the idea of a stricken English name. Shows what the place usually is, but also that it isn't that at the time. Imagine, Welcome to Barrville Barhahb!rrh! I'm not sure if it should apply to orange suburbs too. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:50, 27 October 2010 (BST)

I'm afraid I'd have to agree with Aichon. The Dangermap's purpose is to be a reference for all users, and quite frankly, the only additional function the zamgrh map adds is a clever in-joke for more involved players (while simultaneously causing potential confusion for the less metagame minded users). Such a map would be great on the Barhah page, or even listed under the "other maps" section of the main suburb page, but really shouldn't be messing with the main map. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 05:52, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Although TripleU's italic text gives me an Idea for a possible Mall logo-esque header for the individual suburb pages.~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 05:59, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Very against this. -- LEMON #1 07:42, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Although the discussion that came afterwards is pretty interesting- a zombie themed map as an alternative is pretty cool, though if all it does is change the names and reverse the colours it's really just a pointless flavour change. -- LEMON #1 07:46, 27 October 2010 (BST)

As Aichon, DDR, and particularly Red hawk. The map's primary function (whether it does it well or not is a completely separate matter) is to help newbies and other users in a useful manner. This would undermine that not only for survivors, but also for zombies trying to find out where they are. An alternative map is definitely plausible, but I wouldn't know where it should go.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 10:26, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Question on Meaning of Suburb Danger Level Description

It has been a long running dispute between myself and another on the meaning of the Safe Suburb level. It state that : Break-ins rare, max 50+ zombies in suburb and no zombie groups above 10. Now about the last part does "zombie groups" mean if there are more than 10 zombies in one spot, OR if there is actual Zombie Group with more than 10 members?

If it is the former, for better clarification could it be changed to "groups of zombies"? Is this the right spot, and do we post at the bottom? If not please move to the appropriate spot.

Can I have opinion of an admin/syops whoever is responsible for an official decision of this kind? -- JD 20:40, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

It's zombie group as in "horde cluttering up the map", not as in "cluttering up the stats page". The latter would be hard to prove anyway, as opposed to just spotting a double-digit crowd in the streets. -- Spiderzed▋ 20:50, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I hate the danger levels for suburbs. They'd be much easier to grok if they mirrored the building reports. 21:07, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah, the Kempsterbank Question. Frankly its impossible to be absolutely clear. Say last week with St Ferreols Reclaimed by the fortress, the whole suburb was repaired but there was a horde of 20+ zombies on one square, this week, with the immediate area reruined, there are no groups of 10 zombies, but theres 20+ zombies in a 3x3 square. Not even getting started on the "break ins rare" aspect. Remember EMRP don't count zombies inside buildings. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I swear you must be watching my every move, or you spend wayy too much time on here Ross. But again, during the quiet times, when its just the dozen or so SFNAS guys working to hold the nine blocks of St Ferreol's, the fact that a dozen or so zombies wearing the same group tag should be enough to forever keep a suburb from attaining green seems inane. Also as far as scoping the all important numbers, two simple necronet sweep should be enough. I won't even look at the land mine issue that "frequency of break-ins" is. So can we end this issue once and for all, and perhaps change the wording to "group of zombies" to prevent future errors? JD" 02:40, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I am one of the two Crats here. So yeah, I am here too much. We should just have a custom template, where Kempster can be listed as safe but with a tiny red square in the top right of the display :). BTW. What happened with Stan the chopper? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:37, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, and this thread shows how often I check up on the wiki, but THERE is a great idea, and it would give a much more accurate picture due to the special circumstances! How can we start getting that idea set up as my wiki'ing skills have atrophied long ago. As for Stan, there was a mess when one of your guys brought up a weak accusation of Zerging. After some debate, he choose to resign from KT in order not to drag the rest of KT down and bring disgrace to the group as a whole. As we always have said on our page, we take an extremely dim view on zerging, and that extends to the highest leadership, but he will be missed dearly. -- JDI 17:47, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Not that weak a case, but I suspected as much. Cheers. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:54, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Questions (2)

I have a few questions regarding templates.

1. Is there a single official page that lists all templates?

2. It's a work in progress, but does the template I made here: Sandbox make any sense?

--TheBardofAwesome 07:39, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

For #1, nope, though if you're looking for a particular type of template, there are a few categories for them that might help you track down what you're looking for. Start here. For #2, which template? You seem to have a few on that page. None of them look too hard to understand, from what I see, though I didn't look too hard. —Aichon— 07:45, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello Aichon, how've you been? Haven't seen or for the most part, talked to you in a while. How's A&M going for you? I'm just looking for templates for characters like one for a drinker that isn't an alcoholic, philosophies regarding revives and buildings, etc. Also, I was referring to the Social Drinker template. I just organized the page so that should help in the future.

Finally have some time to relax after many long weeks of studying and working. Yay /sarcasm --TheBardofAwesome 07:49, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Pretty well. Trudging along as usual with my research. Anyway, see Yonn's response below. In addition, there's Category:Flagboxes, which is probably specifically what you're looking for. —Aichon— 23:07, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Full list of all templates on the wiki--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 14:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh. Yeah. There is that. Can't believe I forgot about it. >_< —Aichon— 23:07, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, it took me three goes to write out the link, so I'm in no position to brag. :P --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)