User talk:Nubis

• The Dead

The Rules

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You are inside Nubis' Talk Page. The page lies open, its contents either looted or transferred. The building has fallen into ruin, and with the lights out, you can hardly see anything. The doors to the street have been left wide open. Feel free to post your comments below this large ass box.

	Katthew For Sysop
	This user demands change and a return to common sense. Vote Katthew! We will stop at nothing to promote her.

me said:

Be nicer!

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 1 days.

Please do not vandalize pages on this wiki. Continuing this behaviour may lead to your editing privileges being revoked. This is a dumb thing to get a warning for. You are getting on my shit list with every time you click save page. --– Nubis 03:42, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Last one out turn off the lights. 

-- Nubis

*Click*

LEFT 4 WIKI

The wiki is very much a survival horror experience itself. I noticed the parallels to one of my favorite games and had to share.

Iscariot is the WITCH. Sits there on his talk page whining and crying, grunting and huffing when anyone comes near him. If you "startle" him he leaps on you viciously tearing at you with wiki lawyering claws. (He is probably doing most of this in his underwear, too.)

Katthew is the greatest Boomer that ever lived. She vomits obscenities and hordes of goons run to the scene trolling and ranting. Since she has gone inactive the baby Boomer would have to be J3D. Fail to knock him back and he spews nonsense and summons his clan which litter the area with gibberish and LOLS.

Karek is the Hunter. Lurking around making valid posts randomly (as his hunter shrieks) then leaping in with a vicious attack that is sharp and to the point often knocking down any opposition.

Hagnat is the Smoker. Dancing around getting tangled up in random problems. Instead of a hacking cough, you can recognize him by his "English" and poor spelling.

Nubis seems to be the Tank if you look at A/M. Going around doing whatever I want and throwing walls of text at those that oppose me. I can't let things drop and I often don't wear a shirt.

Boxy is Bill the grizzled vet. Probably does wear a beret.

Rosslessness is Louis. Just a normal guy trying to make it through the day and not get hurt by some idiot using a Molotov at close range.

Cyberbob is Francis. Rebel by nature and probably does dress like a member of the Village People in a little leather vest.

Conndraka is Zoey. Just because the DHPD were all little girls. :P

Sysop Shit

Joy

Damn it... I thought we had this choriographed where we'd be in the ring at the same time for a 40 count until the reff noticed...ahh well. A little S/M on the A/M again... besides I was starting to feel left out. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 21:41, 15 April 2009 (BST)

Hungry?

You ate the categories (disambiguation pages) :( --Janus ^talk 20:01, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

---

Yeah ... I took it off when I fixed all the links so that I could tell it was done. Then I sort of misplaced the ones I removed it from.... So, uh, yeah. I need a better way to indicate that all of the internal links were repaired. :/ --– Nubis ^NWO 21:15, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Is your WIZARDS group, still active.

I have no idea what this headline is about but feel free to comment under it. --– Nubis ^NWO 12:13, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Complaints

Not happy? If it is sysop related it goes above this, by the way. Hope you have a sense of humor.

Misconduct's Greatest Hits

Remember that you are under a microscope and wiki lawyers lurk. You are getting on the shit list with every time you click save page.

Just wondering..

..who are Cheese and the other sysops in L4D? (Just noticed that you have a comment below this large ass box :) )

I'm not sure... Those all just popped in my head. Actually, there are a few cool "wiki castings" I have seen and thought about expanding. I "liked" the Et Tu, Nubis? discussion. Mod Conspiracy or wiki monitors or something like that was really good at this. --– Nubis ^NWO 00:52, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Can I be on it if I give you a cookie? =) -- Cheese 01:03, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

In Memoriam De

I figured they didn't exist for some reason, apparently. I can't recall what. Also, there are some pages Mrh?ing in A/MR. _■^■ 06:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm leaving this because I love that last part.--– Nubis ^NWO 12:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Srs Question

When did I become the "golden boy of the sysop team"? That's quite the 180 from when I was "Grim Jr." or more recently when I was Marcus Karekius. Something is wrong here, something isn't quite right. Iscariot has stolen all of the hate, there's none left for the uppity, loud mouthed, egalitarians like me. It's just not fair.

And on that note, when did Boxy and me get classified as bestest buds? When did Conndraka start to be reasonable like again? I must know how these people that I've argued with more than anyone else got marked as my wiki fave five.--Karek^maps?! 06:33, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, it was after Monica got amnesia and Raul came back from being kidnapped by Canadians.

Seriously though, you became the "golden boy" because unlike Grim you can present your logical arguments without derision and spelling errors. You were only Grim Jr. because while he was often the most logical side he was also the least agreeable. You are consistently on the right side of most if not all cases. Actually, with the exception of banning Katthew I think you have always made good decisions or at least made decisions. (And that's why in hindsight I can totally understand the Katthew thing, but at the time that was the wrong move politically). And I know you can see that after the shit storm that was GoonMania.

Boxy had a period (after Grim was promoted, but before Boxy was "demoted") where his judgment seemed very flaky or cloudy at best. I attribute it to slight burnout and annoyance at the goons actually succeeding in voting in the least suitable candidate with a sweeping majority (IIRC). That would piss me off, too. (And I won't apologize for the Goons. I love them).

I wouldn't say you and Boxy are "bestest buds" because I don't think you two "bond" that well. I just think you are both able (now) to make decisions that while they might seem "bad" in the short term actually are the best in the long run. I don't think it will last. But as long as you are both on the same sides of an issue I see him as a good ally and nice foil for you.

I found Conndraka was almost always a reasonable person deep down inside, but like myself he wants to win and be right and enjoyed the "politics" (back in the day). I think the DHPD/The Dead of Dunell Hills workaround was a masterstroke of cunning, but it pissed me off to no end. Once he stopped identifying himself as DHPD's sysop (in actions) he became a good guy that makes decisions and has a spine or balls (which ever organ is the greater compliment).

I would hope that I am on your fave five. Since I seem to be Misconduct's Poster Boy I can hardly be one of the good guys though. I'll try not to drag you down with me when I go :) I also know that while I mostly look out for myself (hey, gotta be honest) I will throw myself into whatever cause I feel is right. Which if I am on your "side" is a good thing and if I am not is a bad thing. So, be prepared for that should it come up.

I notice that Hag is missing from this inquiry. Here's what I will say about him. Things that he is "passionate" about he will try his damnedest on to get a resolution even if he doesn't know what he needs resolved. Things that he doesn't think really affect him he couldn't care less about. It's a self-centered approach, but I can't fault him on it. It is just frustrating trying to get him to "care" and act on something that he is, well, "meh" about. I don't think Cheese is really a moron, even though I have called him that. I just think he doesn't see the Big Picture. Not everyone can. You can't teach someone how to see it either. They have to find something that makes them stop and see what the chain reaction will be. He doesn't see the ripples. Again, it's frustrating like Hag, but in a different way.

I have no comment on The General or Thari because I haven't seen enough of them to form a half assed bias opinion. :)

Anyone else? --– Nubis ^NWO 14:00, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Everyone? :) -- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 21:04, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

*ehem*

Misconduct Review, you going to put up for a vote? --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 20:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

No way in Hell am I putting that up until we have a policy to get rid of problem reporters. But thank you for thinking of me. --– Nubis ^NWO 20:16, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Uranium

BOMBS--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 03:02, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Your newish user page.

The Karek quote made me sad, but the "Thank You for Your Imput" part made me laff!--SirArgo ^Talk 19:46, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

That quote is sad. It's a shame the forces of pettiness got to him and that the retarded wiki lawyers once again can roam free. --– Nubis ^NWO 22:31, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, hello! --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 22:34, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

AHLG, I've vaguely been following that. I like the link/response you put to my comment on there, but honestly, I don't think a civility policy is the answer. I think a moderation system is the way to go only because a policy can't force people to participate in conflict resolution. This place isn't that "wild west" but the sysops have no real way to deal with conflicts that don't include vandalism yet are still very disruptive. And if someone is being disruptive and the aggressor there is no way to "stop" them if they aren't trashing pages.

If possible, a workable definition of harassment needs to be added to the vandalism descriptions. However, any definition can't include a solid number and therefore will still be open to interpretation by..well..moderators.--– Nubis ^NWO 21:28, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. I think the idea was to change/create a new system where there would be a set of "moderators" (or whatever). Read through this part, where there would be evidence and discussion after which it would be ruled upon. In a way that the "accused" can't just decline and go on his way. I suppose it's like A/VB, except exchange vandalism with things like harassment and incivility.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 21:36, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

God help me, I have recently discovered the delicious crack called Recent Changes... Just to add a little to what Gnome said, harrassment is included in the draft civility policy, and yes, you're right that cases (those that aren't dealt with by some kind of prior mediation) are going to be arbitrated by fallible human beings. But surely some human beings on this wiki are capable of rational, unbiased judgement. The bottom line is that, without an enforced policy that checks harrassment and rampant incivility, then harassment and rampant incivility will continue unchecked. This is not behavior that falls (or should fall) under vandalism, IMO. Being a dick is not vandalism. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 21:58, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

But surely some human beings on this wiki are capable of rational, unbiased judgement. Good luck getting 2 people to agree on who that would be. Being an extreme dick is the very definition of vandalism "a not good faith edit that does not improve or contribute to the wiki". --– Nubis ^NWO 02:32, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, we'll never find out how the votes would come out unless there's actually a vote. You know about this shit, at least come tell us what you would do. Also, if "an edit not made in a good-faith attempt to improve this wiki" is vandalism, then half the posts on this wiki are vandalism, and punishment should be enforced across the board. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 16:53, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

What I would do would be exactly what I said: Go to an all moderation format. If this wiki was just the basic information (Skills do this, buildings have this, here's some math on hitting things etc.) then the system we have would be perfect. But we also have groups, buildings, a generated history, and users posting as their character. This means more "rivalry", egos, and potential flaming. You can't just Admin to all that. If you could, you wouldn't need arbitration because everything would be black and white. Moderation doesn't have to be as "involved" and controlling as people would make it seem. It would be less wiki lawyering and more accepting personal responsibility if your actions proved disruptive. --– Nubis ^NWO 13:04, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

And if you wanted to come up with a fairish way to pick the mods instead of instantly porting over all the sysops then post another Do you trust this sysop? page and let the sysops give a brief statement (like a promotions bid) and any Againsts that are purely "personality conflict" can be counted as a half vote since it isn't about whether you like the person, but rather that you think they could be fair. Being fair is completely different from following policy. As annoying as it is sometimes the policy is wrong and to follow it would be unfair and those are the situations that test a person. --– Nubis ^NWO 22:09, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

So in this moderation format, there would be no more arbitration? Or arbitration would stand as it is now but it would rule only on edit disputes? And how many moderators would your system need? Would they all be sysops? And if these moderators did exist, wouldn't they need some guidelines (a policy, say) by which to moderate? Or they would would just go around making personal calls on what is disruptive/abusive behavior and what isn't? I'm trying to get an idea of what a new system would look like (could you tell?), as that seems to be the direction most people are going... --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 02:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Arbitration would be content only and decided by a jury. One person should not have complete control over disputes on creative content. Personal disputes wouldn't belong there. The number depends on activity levels and coverage. Not tons but then more than 3.

I don't think you understand what I mean by moderation. I mean less red tape. Restructure VB so that the punishment ladder isn't so rigid. Change the term "ban" to "probation" unless it is a perma-ban. Let the sysops/mods (whatever they are called) actually exercise powers without pointless red tape because you trust their judgment.

As far as a policy goes just adapt this. It keeps the goons in check. It should work otherplaces.

Countdown to this paragraph being linked/quoted as evidence I clearly want to rule this wiki. --– Nubis ^NWO 07:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Indeed.--– Nubis ^NWO 20:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Interesting new signature! Look, thanks much for all the input on this. I think you're right about arbitration and have argued as much, but naturally everyone has different opinions. It seems like people do want a new system for personal disputes, and I did totally use the SA link to come up with a user conduct draft, which I think is less hardcore than the previous civil conduct draft. Maybe it will be useful, maybe not. Ciao. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 19:15, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

lawl

j2d is completely off the rails it's glorious --Cyberbob 11:35, 1 April 2009 (BST)

watch this.--– Nubis ^NWO 11:36, 1 April 2009 (BST)

with bated breath --Cyberbob 11:39, 1 April 2009 (BST)

it's... beautiful ;_; --Cyberbob 11:42, 1 April 2009 (BST)

thx ^_^--– Nubis ^NWO 11:45, 1 April 2009 (BST)

say... you wouldn't happen to know how to make an image link to a page other than its own, would you? -- Cyberbob 11:57, 1 April 2009 (BST)

sry. katthew and i tried to get her image to link and it wouldn't work for us. --– Nubis ^NWO 09:58, 2 April 2009 (BST)

Your sig...

...is illegal. Fix it. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:59, 1 April 2009 (BST)

And yours hurts my eyes. What's not to like?--Thadeous Oakley 20:20, 1 April 2009 (BST)

Scratch that. Both of your sigs are giving me a headache now.--Thadeous Oakley 20:44, 1 April 2009 (BST)

Gone

I've left the Wiki for now. I'm sick and tired of the drama and the people. Keep fighting the good fight, alright?--SirArgo ^Talk 01:26, 8 April 2009 (BST)

I'm sorry you are gone, but I completely understand. I'll keep the A/M archive up to date for you so you can catch up when you return. :) -Trusted Users Nubis

yay Cyberbob 10:09, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Naming yourself the Tank

How modest of you. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:50, 8 April 2009 (BST)

yes, the joke is so very subtle in that comment. It has also been on my page for months. You aren't on the cutting edge here with your quips. --– Nubis ^NWO 03:26, 8 April 2009 (BST)

I guess I don't venture round your neck of the woods often. If you'd like, I'll change my walking route to allow for some Nubis time :) D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:36, 8 April 2009 (BST)

And when I originally saw the Tank call on your talk page before I had my holiday, I hadn't played L4D. Now I have, I finally understand it all. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:38, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Current Projects

I would really like to help you on your quest to destroy location disambiguations... If you could give me a small description of all the exact actions it entails (besides just making a locations page) I'll start help right away. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 13:07, 26 April 2009 (BST)

This is what I do. 1.Category:Disambiguation list in Tab 1. 2.Click on location to open in tab 2. 3 Click on what links here. (if things other than location list is showing then hit back button.) 4. Open each location listed on Disam page in own tab (3 and 4 etc) . (if it is a grouped/merged page fix that first) 5. go to each disamb listed on the what links here page. 6. Use Ctrl + f to find the name you are fixing. (read the text to make sure you have the right location) 7. C&P to fix the links to the correct location 8. Refresh what links here list until it is gone. 9. Repeat.

I find that news archives are the worst for random links to disamb pages, but luckily you can tell which one they want. Group or character pages suck, because you have to figure out which one they mean. I leave user talk pages and group pages where I'm not sure which one they mean alone. The big part is getting the pages unmerged. It can be tedious at best. That's why I am making sure I keep track of what I have done so I don't double back on myself. If you jump in, just let me know which ones you do or where you leave off on here. I will add them to my list (with credit of course).

Any other questions, feel free to ask.--– Nubis ^NWO 13:41, 26 April 2009 (BST)

Ah, I wasn't aware the job was to change all 'what links here' links to the actual locations... Either way, I've done R, and gotten up to (but not including Sparrow Row on S. I'll be sure to help you more ASAP, when it isn't midnight. Oh, and don't worry about the credit. I just enjoy being able to help out. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:14, 26 April 2009 (BST)

Alright, I am now up to, but not including, St. Emelia's Church. Tougher work than I've done before, I have to admit. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 13:23, 27 April 2009 (BST)

Good job! Yeah, it is very tedious at best. I hate repeating myself like that Then when we get done we get to start all over making sure no new ones pop up.--– Nubis ^NWO 00:47, 30 April 2009 (BST)

Lame. Well, it took 6 hours but S has been done. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:37, 30 April 2009 (BST)

I helped a bit with T (it's so daunting). I finished at The Wagland Building. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 14:31, 11 May 2009 (BST)

Good work trudging through T. Just finished the rest for you. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 04:50, 12 May 2009 (BST)

...And, it's done, I just finished the rest. Good job Nubis! D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 08:06, 12 May 2009 (BST)

Thanks for the help. This earned you a vouch. Use it well. --– Nubis ^NWO 10:33, 13 May 2009 (BST)

Merged pages.

Thanks for the feedback; sorry for my incorrect undo. I tried searching for the correct Catherine General Hospital when I couldn't find it, and the search engine told me it was still supposed to be in a combined page. I.e., http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Stanbury_Village_Hospitals#Catherine_General_Hospital. Probably a caching issue, or maybe I got caught in the middle of the process. Should have made the method synchronized. --Lariat2301 13:39, 7 May 2009 (BST)

It's a very slow process to update all the links. When worse comes to worse you might try looking for a building next to the one you want or just typing in the name (in that format). No harm no foul either way !--– Nubis ^NWO 13:40, 7 May 2009 (BST)

Hola

Hey, I edited a small problem to your Iscariot page. Also, a few of the links are no longer working/invalid for some reason or another. Are you okay with me hunting them down to fix them?--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 17:27, 9 May 2009 (BST)

Sure ! Go right ahead. --– Nubis ^NWO 23:25, 9 May 2009 (BST)

You should also have an email available or send me an email from an email you use so I can email you things and make more really long run on sentences, but in private.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 01:56, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Email is enabled now. I thought I had it on. Sorry. But if it is about the A/VB I support you 100%. --– Nubis ^NWO 01:47, 3 June 2009 (BST)

You have been warned for misconduct. Your second case of course, the first one was cleared.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 19:06, 10 June 2009 (BST)

So what is the de-escalation policy on misconduct cases? Oh, there isn't one. That's fair.--– Nubis ^NWO 19:58, 10 June 2009 (BST)

Shouldn't the warning also be put into it's own section on the page? Looks bad here.--SirArgo ^Talk 20:03, 10 June 2009 (BST)

It doesn't have to be. He knows, it's recorded. Done and done. And actually, many of Hagnat's misconduct warnings have been struck. They act like any old warning, so wait a bit and edit you'll be fine.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:09, 10 June 2009 (BST)

I really do think there should be an ability to refuse de-escalations if the user in question is obviously just spamming their way to however many they need. This doesn't apply to Nubis obviously but a comment J3D made on his talk page reminded me of it. --Cyberbob 20:14, 10 June 2009 (BST)

I think the precedent set by Iscariot's Misconduct case against me is grounds enough for a sysop to refuse to de-escalate. If the sysop that is being asked doesn't feel that they can justify the reduction and are concerned about a misconduct case in the event that the de-escalation is incorrect they should have every right to protect themselves. Maybe I was wrong about Izzy. That might almost be something useful! --– Nubis ^NWO 13:02, 11 June 2009 (BST)

I wasn't around for that one, didn't he refuse to have the descalation? And speaking of Izzy, his ban as been up for almost 24 hours and hasn't come back for an edit. Word around IRC channels say he may have quit for good...? D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 13:13, 11 June 2009 (BST)

No, I was de-escalating people while cleaning the VD page and gave him a de-escalation 7 edits shy of 250 and he made a misconduct case against me (after several snide comments here and on other Admin pages). --– Nubis ^NWO 13:17, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Alright. I thought you mean the one where you banned him and missed a vandal escalation or something odd like that. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 13:25, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Well, I missed a step in the banning ladder, but there was a huge debate about whether or not he should have gotten a reduction. (I went to a week instead of 48 hours. That was my mistake) But the argument was about whether or not de-escalations are automatic or have to be requested.--– Nubis ^NWO 13:33, 11 June 2009 (BST)

I'll still treat this as automatic, and I'm willing to accept punishment if I screw it up. So w/e.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 15:44, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Misconduct cases should not be listed on VD. There is no set procedure for "de-escalation" and if they are weighed the same as VB then what's the point of A/M? --– Nubis ^NWO 20:49, 11 June 2009 (BST)

There is no point because our entire admin system needs an overhaul. I'm working on it. Give me a couple more days and I'll post it somewhere on the wiki.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:53, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Steal from here if you want. --– Nubis ^NWO 14:35, 12 June 2009 (BST)

And here.--– Nubis ^NWO 14:42, 12 June 2009 (BST)

I already have that up. :P Thanks though. --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 15:02, 12 June 2009 (BST)

You mean like Conn and his families project?--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:22, 10 June 2009 (BST)

Conn doesn't have any warnings as far as I know? I'm talking about people that do jack to help the wiki yet because none of their edits were actually "bad faith" they're de-escalated, giving them free rein to do whatever they please until they rack up their next One Warning (and so on and so forth). It's abuse of the system. Ideally there should be a common-sense requirement that not only do your edits have to not be "bad faith" but also should actively be "good faith" and genuinely be trying to work at doing work to help out around the place if they want their de-escalation. --Cyberbob 20:31, 10 June 2009 (BST)

I struck it yesterday when he asked. Thoguh it was after he started up the families thing, which enabled him to get the 250 he needed.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:34, 10 June 2009 (BST)

So, what is up with the italicised i's on your misconduct portal thingerjig?--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 21:19, 21 June 2009 (BST)

Dropping By

I'm back for a little. Till at least the newest Iscariot vandal case ends.--SirArgo ^Talk 01:01, 3 June 2009 (BST)

And he once again proves he is no better than said user because his only existence on the wiki is that of 100% antagonistic behaviour. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 01:42, 3 June 2009 (BST)

???? There is a huge difference between Argo and Iscariot. Actually, Iscariot is the reason Argo left. He was tired of Izzy calling him a puppet account and insulting him. I'm so glad that you dropped by my talk page to insult my friend and make an ass of yourself. --– Nubis ^NWO 01:50, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I'm so glad that people think we should wait until Izzy snaps and breaks teh wiki. :( Also, yeah, that's what the email thing was about this time. There have been about a half dozen other times I went to send you one and it wasn't enabled, I just didn't think we were frayands enough for me to asks that.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 01:56, 3 June 2009 (BST)

We will always be BFFs in my heart even if we disagree on policy. --– Nubis ^NWO 01:59, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Sweet. I weas beginning to think I didn't really have many friends around here. :/ --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 02:02, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I'm still around here and your friend. It's just that TF2 has my soul in a vise and I can't break free for long to post here. :) Now, let's just see if these newbie ops you promoted are really how you thought they would be. --– Nubis ^NWO 02:08, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Sadly enough, I'm still too broke to actually by the game. Or a decent video card for my desktop since my lappy was stolen. But for the most part, the ops have acted as predicted. They will play into my hands perfectly! Mwahahahaha!--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 02:13, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Thanks Nubis, but since DDR refuses to check my past edits and my lack of true rude, in the confines of not breaking the rules, behavior to anyone besides "Izzy", and maybe Grim as his case was winding down, I fear things said won't matter. If he wishes to believe I am a worthless troll, then he will keep believing it. I've tried to find out what set him off specifically, but I haven't been able to.

BTW on an unrelated matter, I also sold my soul to TF2 recently. It's more enjoyable than crack I must say. --SirArgo ^Talk 02:11, 3 June 2009 (BST)

How about that. Nubis, I never said Argo was anything like iscariot, I said he was no better than him as a contributor to the community. I know Argo left because of Iscariot, that is proving exactly what I mean: Argo has no reason to edit this wiki simply because he can't handle the way one user behaves? Poor form, especially for him to come in every now and then (ie. Crat Elections) and spout on about how this place is a shithole and it's all up to you, Nubis, to fix it. And Argo, I did check your contributions many weeks ago in anticipation I would eventually talk to you about this: Your entire existence up until you left was being a reactionary retard to users like Bob, Iscariot and Woot (ie. anyone with bite). And why is it that whenever someone insults you, you have to pull out the "You think I'm a troll!" card. I never said anything about you being a troll, I never use the word troll, and you are not a troll. You are the opposite. A whiney, thin-skinned user who blames your shortcomings and lack of progress on the wiki on other users who just like the attention they get from you. How long do you think it will take for you to pull your head out of your arse and actually contribute based on the merit of actually helping the wiki, and choosing to ignore users like Iscariot? It took me 3 months, I believe. Have you surpassed 3 months already? I'm not sure... D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:49, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Ow, the flaming here burns.

I forgot I am not allowed to return to the wiki after leaving for the fact that I didn't want to violate the rules in a massive flame fest. Silly old me. And for me to then voice my opinions, because obviously if I'm not editing I'm not reading anything that's going on right, I should be burned at the stake. I like the words you put in my mouth as well, it's great icing on the cake. WHERE did I pull out the "you think I'm a troll card"? You basically called me a troll, to quote "his only existence on the wiki is that of 100% antagonistic behaviour", a.k.a. TROLLING. I then essentially said "Ok, go ahead it's not that big of a deal". Now you flame me because you don't like me. Ok, don't like me, I don't care. But now you insult me. I have never directly insulted you, so you throw the first rock. You want to start something, and I shall not feed it. Believe what you wish, go ahead and flame me. I don't have time for your weird ass anger issues. Remember, YOU came on here and started this. You could have said NOTHING, like you now tell me I should do, but you chose not to.--SirArgo ^Talk 03:05, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Amazing. Simply amazing. Do you classify everything that isn't productive as trolling? You are not a troll, I never said you were, nor did I imply it. However, you are still banging on about it. Who is putting words in other user's mouths now? You are merely proving exactly what I mean; for example, the long response that ends with "I will not feed you at all, DDR. However, if you reply to this in an offensive way, I will reply, merely stating that I will not feed you further, and so on and so forth". This is the behavior that I have seen from you and Honestmistake oh so many times before. I expect a glorious reply that still states you won't be interested in pursuing this argument. Oh, look at me, I don't even like arguing with petty users, but see how easy it is to get caught up with someone so easy to antagonise! In fact, I'm surprised you haven't pulled the 'why do you think you're an overlord/god' card. And just so you know, I don't flame you because I don't like you. I flame you because I try my hardest to clean up this wiki and make it a useable resource, and I take it to heart when a user who makes 3 contributions a month comes in and claims it is crap, just because of his one series of altercations with one user, who everyone hates already (and therefore making it all the more easy to ignore him, despite your persistence not to).

I will be leaving this, however, not because I consider myself beat, simply because even with the best argument I can throw at you, it could never get you to wise up and realise that you are actually less useful to this wiki than Iscariot himself. As I said, it took me 3 months, I bid you good luck in however long it takes you. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:35, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away. It makes it worse. Did you read the links on my 001 page? Did you know that all of the stuff collected on there was only a sampling of his behavior? He's been given many chances, ignored, and even defended many times by Karek, (irony) and yet he persists. --– Nubis ^NWO 03:39, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Sorry about all this on here Nubis. I just wanted to say hi like I told you I would!--SirArgo ^Talk 03:43, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I couldn't read all the links because at the time, a few were broken. Yes, I understand fully that he is the bane of the wiki, but I will not agree to a sysop vote to immediately ban him. All evidence will similarly undermine my priorities in what I believe to be the wrong process. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:51, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Going to unconditionally agree with DDR here with regards to SirArgo. Nubis, I don't think you quite"get what is meant by ignoring Iscariot. It does not mean ignoring for one case and then immediately returning to the way things were when it becomes a little tough. It means consistently ignoring him for who-knows-how-long until it really does become clear to him he's not going to have an effect. "bawww its too hard ;(" only tells him his efforts are working. Believe me when I say that banning him in this manner is more or less giving him exactly what he wants and apart from that I think it sets up a really really bad precedent. But I guess from your comments on the talk page you don't think the precedent would be all that bad? --Cyberbob 05:35, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Bob, if he just pissed off sysops I would almost say Fight the Power RAWR RAWR, but he attacks new users. You can't allow that and hope to have the community grow.

True, I don't think any precedent that it sets will be a bad one. Mainly because this "one" incident has taken place over a year at least. I don't see any benefit in allowing him to remain. I don't see any problem with "giving him what he wants" as many of you think it will do. I do see a problem with turning a blind eye on a problem that can be solved.

He has been given many chances and never reforms. This is very much a big picture problem. He's well beyond 3 strikes. Sysops have tried to reason with him on his page, A/VB, and A/A and there is never a change in his behavior. He's been given a "time out" ban and yet he persists. There is such a thing as an incorrigible troll and that is Iscariot. --– Nubis ^NWO 13:33, 3 June 2009 (BST)

IPAT. Really only applicable when you can't do anything about it, or too pointless or petty to do something. Course, it only helps for the odd few, not when the attacks are being thrown at multiple people. Not everyone wants or can IPAT it.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 16:46, 4 June 2009 (BST)

There's a difference between a few personal attacks and going out of your way to grief people. --– Nubis ^NWO 16:52, 4 June 2009 (BST)

I have no interest in reading all the whining walls of text... But you're right on the money about Iscariot -- and in your arguments re: banning him. Personally, I think a perma is going too far... by a tad... But that's just me. Good on you for standing up! --WanYao 06:54, 7 June 2009 (BST)

You know, you're actually right.

Ive had a look back through the archives, and I only ruled on 4 of the 10 misconduct cases that happened last time I was a 'sop. Well noticed. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:25, 4 June 2009 (BST)

Hypocrisy.

Innit it grand?--SirArgo ^Talk 08:04, 7 June 2009 (BST)

I hear pathetic attempts at wit are going at a premium too --Cyberbob 08:27, 7 June 2009 (BST)

and punctuation —The preceding unsigned comment was added by J3D (talk • contribs) 07:37, 7 June 2009.

and signatures --Cyberbob 08:48, 7 June 2009 (BST)

I use no wit. I'm telling the truth. Some are only once hypocritical, and it is never forgotten. Yet others can use it often and no one cares. No Bob, you look into insulting me so much that you aren't able to truly read what I write.--SirArgo ^Talk 08:57, 7 June 2009 (BST)

u shuld writ a book or smething ur prety smart --Cyberbob 09:00, 7 June 2009 (BST)

And ur just pretty. lets maek babbies and rule the wiki K? (seriously, wtf is this all about?) --– Nubis ^NWO 13:24, 7 June 2009 (BST)

how is babby formed? (dunno, I guess SirArgo figures you've been a hypocrite at some point and thought he could get in a hilarious dig) --Cyberbob 13:34, 7 June 2009 (BST)

I need enlightenment on both issues. TIA--– Nubis ^NWO 13:43, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Fuck you, Nubis.-- #99 ^DCC 19:57, 7 June 2009 (BST)

double lol --Cyberbob 21:23, 21 June 2009 (BST)

oh come on

Francis? Really? --Cyberbob 21:23, 21 June 2009 (BST)

Francis is badass, you should be proud. I always play Zoey, cause I'm that androgynous sexbeast that you all hate. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 00:08, 22 June 2009 (BST)

I play francis, because hearing him speak is horrible compared to everyone else.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 03:36, 22 June 2009 (BST)

I don't really care who I play as as long as it isn't Francis though I do take Bill if I can get him. --Cyberbob 03:56, 22 June 2009 (BST)

Zoe is cute. I like to think I can be cute. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 04:06, 22 June 2009 (BST)

Yeah....Anywho. I only play Francis because he talks less if you're playing him. Go dI wish I had a mute button for whoever played Francis. >< --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 13:55, 22 June 2009 (BST)

Well, that was when you were a raging troll. Now that you are a respectable member of the UD society I should change it to a powerful character that reflects more of your true inner beauty and strengths. Or I can just go yeah, Francis LOLZ.

Francis, LOLZ.--– Nubis ^NWO 02:39, 25 June 2009 (BST)

hate u --Cyberbob 03:02, 25 June 2009 (BST)

Your resistance only makes me harder. --– Nubis ^NWO 03:03, 25 June 2009 (BST)

User Subpage

Because your page User:Nubis/001 has Cheese's Iscariot-O-Meter code attached directly, it has the custom header instead of the title. I would have changed it myself but I wanted to check to see if you actually knew about this and maybe kept it there? D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:32, 26 June 2009 (BST)

Also, could you please explain your works on your misconduct portal page (The 'I's), I think you have an obligation to explain, as it obviously isn't supposed to be there. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 16:42, 26 June 2009 (BST)

WAH! What policy and/or guideline says shit about what can be bold or not? You must be one dumb fuck if you don't see what it means anyway. -- #99 ^DCC 16:20, 27 June 2009 (BST)

PS Shove that obligation up your ass and spin it. -- #99 ^DCC 16:20, 27 June 2009 (BST)

I 'm still pissed about this. How fucking stupid are you that you don't get it? -- #99 ^DCC 16:22, 27 June 2009 (BST)

What's it to you? I'm not the only one curious, you know. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 16:24, 27 June 2009 (BST)

And he has an obligation to explain because if he doesn't, I'll be sending him to arbitration. Why? Because I'm a compulsive prick, and the wiki is full of them. So deal with it or fuck off right back to sa. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 16:25, 27 June 2009 (BST)

Nubis is semi inactive it seems. I don't think the question is being avoided, so just wait.--SirArgo ^Talk 17:50, 27 June 2009 (BST)

Good luck with AA. --– Nubis ^NWO 20:49, 27 June 2009 (BST)

FLASHBACK!!! I started a trend I see. A/NPAH right?--SirArgo ^Talk 20:55, 27 June 2009 (BST)

Yes. SA, Conn, and Hag were all part of that conversation and none of them have any problems with it. I don't see what crawled up DDR's ass. --– Nubis ^NWO 21:01, 27 June 2009 (BST)

sigh. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 01:42, 28 June 2009 (BST)

REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	Anti-Bureaucracy
	This user hates bureaucracy and encourages wiki-revolution!

DOWN WITH THE CRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --Imthatguy 18:53, 3 July 2009 (BST)

God you are retarded. Now I remember why I have you on my KOS list.--SirArgo ^Talk 20:09, 3 July 2009 (BST)

Newbiz..

You reformed and broke my heart.--SirArgo ^Talk 20:34, 7 July 2009 (BST)

Argo, I've always had a problem with the schizophrenic nature of this wiki. A wiki should be informational, but there is a lot of leeway given to groups to be creative. However, there should be a line otherwise it isn't a wiki anymore, but a bad fanfic site. --– Nubis ^NWO 01:30, 8 July 2009 (BST)

Wait, this isn't a fanfic site? What the hell am I doing here then?!?--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 01:34, 8 July 2009 (BST)

Edit conflictAnd I've always seen it as the fan site, due mainly to the fact that my first days here saw Grim drama totally irrelevant to the game. I guess if I had been here longer and seen any kind of "golden era" here I would want things more strict as well.--SirArgo ^Talk 01:36, 8 July 2009 (BST)

Some parts have been good, some bad. It's the way it will always be.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 01:40, 8 July 2009 (BST)

The wiki now is considerably worse than it was two years ago. --Cyberbob 01:41, 8 July 2009 (BST)

There was never a Golden Era (late 2006-early 2007 was as close as it got) and Grim's brand of admin did nothing good. --Cyberbob 01:41, 8 July 2009 (BST)

Newb, I'll support what ever reform push you want to make. I tried back in 06 to push the idea of making this wiki a viable resource as opposed to what it is... And by Viable resource I mean a wiki that could theoretically be published as a manual for an actual marketed game. My thought...Separate the Game mechanics (suggestions et al) and Groups side of the wiki from the Wiki articles based on locations and in game technical information (i.e Hit and search ratios). Host it on the same server but under a different namespace. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 12:07, 8 July 2009 (BST)

This cuts most of the drama issues off and puts them into a separate area that actual gaming communities won't have to wade through to get to information if they don't want to deal with the drama-llamas.Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 12:09, 8 July 2009 (BST)

Fuck that. Suggestions etc is shit, if you were making a useful informational wiki that would (in my mind) be the first bit to go.--xoxo 12:45, 8 July 2009 (BST)

Suggestions should just go. --Cyberbob 13:04, 8 July 2009 (BST)

I agree with you. Suggestions is shit. There should be no false hope that anything on here will affect the playability of the game. That whole Suggestion system causes nothing but trouble.

I've always thought that the groups and the RP aspect should be completely separate from the informational side. While I enjoy reading the creative histories ALIM* like on location pages I don't like the dogs marking their territory writing that litters most places. I've always hated the flash in the pan groups, too. It's frustrating that a group that like 3 people were in for a week at best is preserved the same as something that was carefully crafted and designed and had interaction with other groups. Slap a group box on a page and it gets hard to justify deleting it under current policy.

I've always thought that suggestions should be re-worked into more of a comedy suggestions option (rather than the pathetic MOAR WEAPONS ones we see). There should be amusement and a reason to come back other than drama.

*Fake plug --– Nubis ^NWO 13:13, 8 July 2009 (BST)

btw You can blame me and Oddstarter for all the group shit on locations pages. (yea I'm finally going to explain myself...)Back in the day ANY page got deleted if it didn't have "significant" (A nebulous definition as deemed fit by oddstarter and the other OLD school sysops.)content. Since It was My dream to eventually have a page for each of the 10k locations (hence the later Locations Project I oversaw and ran)Soooo to 1. Piss off oddstarter (Author of the original locations guide) And to ensure that locations pages didn't get deleted I spammed them with group tags and propaganda. Not really stylish but it kept them from getting deleted. The groups locations categories (Like /DMZ/ etc) were set so that I could watch to see if they were ever put up for deletion so I could make the necessary edits to keep the tabs. Once we completed the Locations project and Wiki sentiment had turned they weren't really needed anymore, so when the Dead et al showed up and started deleting all the DHPD tags and propaganda I didn't really give a shit (except the DMZ ones which I still see as a RP tag)Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 03:36, 10 July 2009 (BST)