Suggestion:20071029 Observation V2

	Closed
	This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Peer Rejected.

20071029 Observation V2

I apoligize to those who already voted on the previous version. I thought the edit was minor enough, but others thought otherwise. Differences to the first version: the edit above (though most of the votes were given after the edit), reorganization of the main text and incorporation of the clarifications into the main text.

Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 19:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion type
New skill

Suggestion scope
Survivors

Suggestion description
A new scientist skill called Observation. It's in the science-skills tree and costs the same as all science skills.

This skill would allow you to observe one of three different event-groups that you can't normally see. Only the observer would be able to see them, so there would be absolutely no spam for those who don't want it. All of the groups would require a skill in addition to Observation. There would be a button "Observe" with a dropdown-list containing the following choices (provided you have the correct skills). None of these would give you the names or profiles of zombies.

• Barricades (requires Construction)

You get notifications when the level of barricades changes, like from loosely to lightly barricaded, very strongly to quite strongly and so on. If both you and the (de-)barricader are on the same side of barricades, you see who did it.

• Equipment (requires Radio Operation)

You see every attack and fix on generators and radios, and who did it. You also see if someone changes the channel of the radio.

• Graffiti (requires Tagging)

You'd see anyone who sprayed graffitis, and what they wrote.

The other skills (Construction, Radio Operation and Tagging) aren't required for buying the skill, but are required for observing the events of that group (the skill description in the Buy Skills screen would include this information). Example: If you have Observation and Construction (no Radio Operation or Tagging), then you can only observe the barricades.

There would be an initial cost of 4 AP to find a place where you can see everything you need. The observer's AP regeneration rate would be halved (to 1 AP per hour) during observation, because of the attention required to notice any and all changes. One "activation" of the skill would last 8 hours. The block description message would show (to those with this skill) how many people are currently observing the block.

During observation, the "Observe" button would change to "Stop observing". If anyone attacked the observer, their concentration would be broken. Any action taken by the observer would also break it. Once the concentration is broken, the AP regen rate would go back to normal.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Weak Keep - my justification didn't change --~~~~ [talk] 19:42, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
2. Keep - Author vote. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 19:50, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
3. Weak Keep - Whatever. BoboTalkClown 20:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
4. Keep - You watered it down too much, but still a good idea. Nothing done in public is confidential. --Pgunn 20:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
5. Keep/original- I prefered the original suggestion but this is still good. Still should be a civilian skill in my opinion.Studoku 20:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

   Original? Do you mean the one that was on Talk:Suggestions? I removed some of the less useful and more server-heavy event-groups. They can always be suggested later if this gets implemented. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 10:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

6. Keep - good idea. I would prefer the skill to be named "Forensics" than "Observation," but either way is fine. Spam does not = "strong kill," according to the Voting Rules, but no one seems to read that. The arguments against are mostly bullshit, but since this isn't the place for discussion I won't go into why. --Clay5x 04:06, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - As Karek (in Spam section), I just don't see how this is practical. Also, my PKer does not approve. --Druuuuu 19:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
2. Kill - Sorry, but some things should be confidential.--Seventythree^Talk 19:43, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
3. Kill - As 73 --------WOOT 01:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
4. Kill - As above. -- John Rubin^{T! ZG} 20:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
5. Kill - I don't want an army of trenchers after me whenever I bring a building back down to VSB like it is on the plan or change the channel on the radio. Plus, my PKer doesn't like it, either. --Howard Bentley 22:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
6. Changish -This is DRASTICALLY underpowered. Try it with 3 individual suggestions just as an option whether or not to pay attention to this. --AlexanderRM 23:19, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

   Those have been suggested (by others) and they were all spammed for generating too much spam. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 10:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

7. Kill - I don't know why any non-zerger would use this. I'd rather have all my AP than a small chance of catching a GKer or overbarricader. --Steakfish 00:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

   The point is that you wouldn't be using this all the time, or even very often. Only when there have been repeated occurrences by (probably) the same person. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 10:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

8. Kill Waaaaaay to high of a cost for such a little benefit... Hell, I'd only buy the skill so I'm still the highest level a Survivor/Dual-Player could be (Cur. lv41, this would make it lv42) ~A`Blue`Jelly^TME*V*I*L*_? 00:52, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
9. Kill - As above. --Sonofagun18 04:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
10. Kill - Dedicated observers? Na -- boxy • talk • 10:06 30 October 2007 (BST)
11. Kill - High potential for abuse. --Zombieslay3r 13:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
12. Kill - Ruins anonymous tagging, and encourages abuse. --Anotherpongo 16:13, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
13. Kill - As many above --Ryiis 18:13, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
14. Kill - Where is the ability to see who is observing? - Pardus 02:02, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Encourages zerging, encourages ruining fun, and has much potential abuse, especially for the radio/generator and the barricades. --Karek^maps?! 19:35, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
2. Spam - for the same reasons I already detailed before the first version was pulled. Or, if need be, as per karek who echoes my objections. --WanYao 20:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
3. Spam - anything that's so powerful it requires a cost of 4-12AP, is probably overpowered. You place great store in the limits (you must have all these skills!), but many, many players now have 1000s of XP, so they're not going to care. Plus, it doesn't make any roleplay sense at all. Why would anyone need any skill just to observe stuff. Clearly, the reason that we can't all currently choose to see that stuff must be gameplay (like, avoiding the promotion of trench-coat stylee PKing reprisals). So, this breaks that. And it encourages zerging. I can't think of anything good about this. And any edit, after voting starts, is bloody cheeky. --Funt Solo 20:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

   So on that basis, are syringes overpowered ;)? It costs so much because it's a long term action. As I said, I thought the edit was minor enough, especially as only two people had voted and one of them was asking for the change. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 20:57, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

   I count 7 or so voters before your final edits, not 2, but that's by the by. As for syringes - there are always exceptions. My limited "move other player" suggestion got implemented, for example, and that's usually a strict no-no. As it is, you've only sort-of answered one complaint out of the several I have. Sorry - I love good suggestions - but this isn't one. --Funt Solo 22:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

   Extended discussion on the talk page. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 07:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

4. Spam - Death to my cultist. Can we give these observation suggestions a rest? Also too high of a cost. I want more time actually playing then doing nothing.--  AHLGTG THE END IS ACTUALLY NIGH! 22:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

   PKers have no problem doing what they do, even while everyone in the block can see what they do. How would Death Cultists have it any harder? Also, you're not supposed to be using this all the time. For example only if there have been repeated occurrences of undesirable behaviour. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 07:53, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

5. Spam - Utterly ridiculous.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 22:44, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
6. Spam - As Karek. Sockem 23:10, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
7. Spam - For hideous amounts of spam, and for providing something that would allow trenchies like the DEM to force their way of "life" on everyone else at the end of a gun. Oh, and by adding a deactivate button you provided an apparently AP free way to turn off the ability, instead of deactivating by actions, which costs at least one ap, and at most 20 (Syringe manufacture). That was a major edit, and why your suggestion was removed from voting last time. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 00:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

   Yes, seems to be generating lots of spam. 7 already ;D. From my perspective the button was just an explicit way to do a thing that could already be done implicitly, but I understand your perspective. Case closed. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 10:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

8. Spam - would encourage zergers, especially in Creedy (where there's plenty of zergers already) --Pavluk ^{A! E!} 18:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
9. Spam Isn't this perfect for free action zerging? But what's to stop someone from having "permanent viewing" of everything everyone does? It promotes PKing, which is bad. As for the spam, the technical information acquired by this would be somewhat useless by all the action going on in the room in the first place. I mean ESPECIALLY after, were this to get added, you'd see 17 people change the radio, 50 people do stuff to the generator/radio, 100 people tagging...just to screw with the observers. People are jerks like that. Also, given the limitations, wouldn't people SEE you observing?--Pesatyel 00:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

   Promotes PKing?! How? And yeah 17 people usually change the station, 50 people attack and fix the genny and a hundred dudes spraypaint all within eight hours. And people do see you observing. Read the damn suggestion. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 06:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

10. Spam- Makes absolutely no sense. How can Miscellaneous skills be prerequisites of Science skills?! --Darth Lumis^{T! A! E! FU! U} 01:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

    You're thinking about the system too rigidly. In order to recognize the action, you need to know how it's done. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 06:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

11. Spam - Hide the children, uncle observation is being abusive. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 22:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)