Suggestion:20080416 Different Types of Shotgun Ammo

	Revised
	This suggestion has been withdrawn for revision, the new version is in the works at Talk:Suggestions.

I think I can make this suggestion more acceptable and workable, so I'm pulling it and going back to Talk:Discussion with it to figure ways to make it less complicated, based on some suggestions here in the votes --Tselita 00:02, 17 April 2008 (BST)

20080416 Different Types of Shotgun Ammo

Tselita 17:41, 16 April 2008 (BST)

Suggestion type
Shotgun Ammunition Improvement/Addition
Suggestion scope
Humans
Suggestion description
I propose that, instead of having different types of shotguns (as happens in most weapon suggestions), we concentrate on the idea of having different types of shotgun shells and slugs. Before I get into the different rounds, it's important to state that you can't have two different types of rounds in one shotgun.

That being said, here's an overview of the different rounds I propose. (All of these rounds are real)

Shotgun Ammo Types:

1) Buckshot
Damage: Without Flak: 10, With Flak: 8
Accuracy: 5%, 30%, 55%, 65%
Burden: 2%
Special Notes: None - standard shotgun shell on Urban Dead - most widely found.
Found: Police Departments (5%), Armories (5%), Gun Shops(6%/9%), Junkyards (1%?)
Summary About Shell: This is the only type that is currently used in the game, currently called Shotgun Shell. This is the one we're all already used to. The original use for these shells is supposed to be for hunting medium to large game. Zombies and survivors also, apparently, count as medium to large game.

2) Bolo Shell
Damage: Without Flak: 10 or 15 (10 + 50% chance of additional 5), With Flak: 8 or 12 (8 + 50% chance of additional 4)
Accuracy: 2.5%, 15%, 40%, 50%
Burden: 3%
Special Notes: 50% chance that the damage will be 15 (or 12 with Flak), 50% chance damage will be 10 (or 8 with Flak)
Found: Armories Only (3%)
Summary About Shell: A Bolo shell usually refers to a type of shotgun shell load. The round is made of two or more slugs molded onto steel wire or chain. When fired, the slugs separate, pulling the wire taut creating a flying blade behind one shell, connected to another shell, which effectively increases the damage potential if the target is moving in such a way that the shot does not go straight in them. Bolo shell rounds are banned in many locations (including some states in the United States of America) due to their potential lethality.

3) Dragonsbreath Round
Damage: Without Flak: 5 damage, then 1 each additional turn for 10 turns (unless healed first), With Flak: 4 damage, then 1 each additional turn for 10 turns (unless healed first)
Accuracy: 5%, 30%, 55%, 65%
Burden: 2%
Special Notes: Sort of like a weakened version of infection. Low initial damage (5), but does 1 additional for each turn afterwards for 10 turns, unless healed with an FAK (for Survivors) or Digestion (for Zombies). The 'smouldering' additional damage does not work on barracades.
Found: Armories Only (2%)
Summary About Shell: Dragonsbreath rounds are very showy, low-powered rounds, which do little -initial- damage. They are a zirconium-based pyrotechnic shotgun round, with an effective distance of about 20 feet, thus severely limiting the initial damage it can do. When fired, they cause a flareup of sparks and flame for about 20 feet (though this flame doesn't have much tactical use in and of itself, it's basically like a flare) - but a side effect is that the round gets greatly heated up. After striking the target, the white-hot round smoulders until it cools down. The result is that it continues to cause 1 damage for each turn afterward, for a maximum total of 10 turns. This 'smouldering' can be stopped if the victim is healed with an FAK (or, in the case of zombies, if they use Digestion to heal themselves once). The rounds are extremely expensive and, in most cases, illegal for non-military use. They would not be found outside of armories.
Additional Note: (In the event that Kevan ever approves an automatic shotgun, the following must be noted - Dragonsbreath rounds cannot be used in an automatic OR semi-automatic shotgun, because it is a very low-power round: it does not produce enough recoil energy to cycle the next shot, and would cause the weapon to jam. An additional reason for use only in a manually-operated weapon is the fact that the round shoots flame for 3-5 seconds: this would cause a hazard if a shell still emitting flame were to be ejected from an automatic shotgun.)
Dragon's Breath round being fired.

4) Flechette Round
Damage: With or Without Flak: 9 Damage
Accuracy: 1%, 25%, 50%, 60%
Burden: 1%
Special Notes: Ignores Flak Jackets, very light. Slightly harder to fire if skilled at firearms, much harder to fire if unskilled at firearms. Does not work on barracades.
Found: Armories Only (2%)
Summary About Shell: Flechette rounds are essentially shells with which look like nails with a jagged seraded edge. They are extremely light, long, and have a small surface point where it impacts its target. They were designed by the army as a means to get past flak jackets. They are rather effective if you know how to use them with decent accuracy, but rather difficult for a novice to fire properly. The length, as well as the seraded edge and the speed with which the round is propelled makes them an effective round and while their small surface point lessens their damage somewhat, their ability to go through flak jackets unimpeded makes up for it. They are a military round, and as such would only be found in armories. Because they are 'essentially' very long projectile nails, they are useless against a barracade.

5) Tumbler Slug
Damage: Without Flak: 15, With Flak: 12
Accuracy: 2.5%, 15%, 23%, 33%
Burden: 2%
Special Notes: Does 50% more damage, but is 50% less accurate.
Found: Armories (4%), Gun Shops (3%), Police Departments (3%)
Summary About Shell: Tumbler slugs are slugs for shotguns with a groove and weighted so that, when fired, they 'tumble' front over back until they hit their target. Because the projectile is a solid slug, the force with which it is propelled is faster, in order to make up for the tumbling which will slow it down. The 'tumbling' causes the slug to be much harder to fire accurately, but when/if it hits its target, the tumbling effect also causes the bullet to ricochet around in the target's body (rather than just getting lodged in one area), causing the damage to be more severe.

Question : Which Shots Can Be Found in Junkyards?:
Bolo Shots, Dragonsbreath Rounds, and Flechette Rounds would -not- be found in junkyards. Armories would not casually dump them.
Tumbler Slugs and Buckshots (aka Shotgun Shells) would still be able to be found in Junkyards at the same rate that Shotgun shells are currently found.

Flavored Poses for Hits:
I'd also propose that for each type of shell, a different flavored pose can be made.

Buckshot - You pepper XYZ with a spray of shotgun pellets for 10 damage.

Bolo Shot - The shot rips into XYZ for 10 damage.

Dragonsbreath Round - With a flash of fire, you shoot XYZ with a round for 5 damage. It begins smoldering in the target. and each additional damage would be The round burns for 1 damage.

Flechette - You nail XYZ with a flechette round for 9 damage.

Tumbler Slug - After tumbling through the air, the slug hits XYZ for 15 damage.

Why Didn't I Suggest This For Pistols?:
There are 3 reasons that I have not suggested something similar for Pistols.

1) Many of these shells simply do not exist in bullet form

Buckshot bullets - Do not exist and, if they did, they would be utterly useless.
Flechette bullets - Do not exist - closest example are armor piercing bullets
Dragonsbreath bullets - Do not exist and could not exist unless you want to burn off your hand firing one.
Bolo Shot bullets - Do not exist - pistols don't have a long enough barrel for this
Tumbler Slug - Pistol slugs in the manner presented here stopped being made in 1879. Newer bullets are superior in a small firearm like a pistol

2) Shotguns can use more of a variety of shells for a similar sized gauge (in this case, 12 gauge) than pistols, without having to introduce 10 additional types of pistols for different bullet types.

3) I'm trying to make ONE suggestion (albeit with several types of shells) - I'm not trying to make 2 suggestions rolled into one. If I was to propose different pistol bullet types, I'd do that in a separate suggestion. This suggestion is for shotgun shells and shotgun shells alone. If I was to make a pistol ammo suggestion, it would need to have different mechanics to it because pistols are different than shotguns. Plus pistols, I need to reiterate, are much harder to make a wide variety of bullets for than shells (which are larger and easier to vary).

I'd just like to mention I did a -lot- of research on this, and on MANY different types of shotgun shells (far more than the ones I put in this suggestion) but these ones are the only ones that seem to work well within the game (which is why you don't see suggestions for poison gas shells, flexible baton rounds (rubber rounds), RIP cartridges (not Rest in Peace - Resistant Irritant Projectiles), SCIMTR rounds (think flechette, but multiple ones being fired at once), or Foster slugs (I decided against this because 65% is high enough for accuracy already). These shell types would not be workable in game, unlike the ones mentioned in the above suggestion. Also, several additional shell types were removed during Talk:Discussion - the breaching round and the birdshot shell (it was merged with buckshot).

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep - Author Keep --Tselita 17:42, 16 April 2008 (BST)
2. Keep --Hhal 18:11, 16 April 2008 (BST)
3. Keep - Long winded as hell, but sure. Why not? -- Cheese 18:14, 16 April 2008 (BST)

   • I tend to be wordy.--Tselita 18:17, 16 April 2008 (BST)

4. Keep - Nice to add a degree of strategy and variety to shotgun combat. The search rates seem to be nicely balanced and nothing seems too overpowered. Charlie Jackpot 18:50, 16 April 2008 (BST)
5. Keep- We need something to make the game more exciting. -- BKM 19:03, 16 April 2008 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - Interesting, and definitely better written than other similar suggestions, but honestly, this will just overcomplicate the whole simple thing we have going. I do like the anti-flak one though. Delicious for my PKer. --Druuuuu ^OcTRR 19:07, 16 April 2008 (BST)
2. Well...You ditched the breaching round one like I said you should...But now you should dump the anti-flak one as well. Almost every survivor, regardless if pro-survivors, trenchcoaters, or PKers, will be using this, not caring about much of the other shells. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:49, 16 April 2008 (BST)

   • I'll try to make this my last Re. :) The usefulness of flechette is actually only 1 damage point. I've never seen flak jackets as particularly useful in the game to begin with, personally. But you'll notice that I did take what you said into account, which is why it's only 2% and in armories (I figured that if a person is able to hold a fort long enough to get a good supply of these, they've earned it. Forts are hard to hold for long)--Tselita 20:22, 16 April 2008 (BST)

   Actually, the Flak Jacket is very useful. If your a zombie, survivors have to use more ammo to kill you, meaning they'll need to use more AP. The same goes for a survivor being attacked by a PKer. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:27, 16 April 2008 (BST)

   • To Discussion? --Tselita 20:38, 16 April 2008 (BST)

3. Kill - Wow.... You sure know about guns, fair enougth, but to be honest for those of us out there who can just about, if pushed tell the difference between a shogun and pistol to start with it's probably best to keep it simple, say two diferent kinds of bullets, buckshot and "normal" say, with one having less accuracy but more damage or something.--Seventythree^Talk 19:52, 16 April 2008 (BST)

   • Well, I know about shotguns ... but it's nothingthat can't be learned from reading websites like these Though to be honest, originally buckshot and birdshot were the two initial proposals, but some people semi-convinced me that buckshot -is- what's currently used, and birdshot isn't used at all. If buckshot is already the standard, birdshot has no purpose for the game. I just felt that shotguns needed some sort of variety and a boost. Originally I was going for a sawed-off shotgun idea, but several people convinced me of the impracticality of that so I went to the 'Tumbler slug' idea instead, which worked better. Then I thought that it can probably be implemented for other shells as well - and the result is what you see above. --Tselita 20:15, 16 April 2008 (BST)

4. Kill - I like this suggestion, I really do...but it would be too complicated to keep track of. I like UD because of the LACK of complexity.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  20:11, 16 April 2008 (BST)

   • A good point, but that's why I thought of different shells, instead of different shotguns. But I appreciate the cordial nature of the kill :) I wasn't sure if I should have made the suggestion with less types of shells - originally in Talk:Discussion, I started with 7 and reduced it to 5 after listening to the input. --Tselita 20:18, 16 April 2008 (BST)

5. Kill - I don't want but I have to... I really like it. It's one of the best shotgun suggestions... but unfortunately it's a bit overcomplicated.-- 
   •  Nevin McAvoy 
   •  (talk) 
   22:41, 16 April 2008 (BST)

   • When you say overcomplicated, do you mean too many different types of shells? --Tselita 23:02, 16 April 2008 (BST)

6. Kill - Quite interesting, but a bit too much. That dragonbreath picture is pretty damn cool, though. ;) --ZsL 22:46, 16 April 2008 (BST)

   • Isn't it? --Tselita 23:02, 16 April 2008 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Not even remotely necessary. --The Hierophant 19:41, 16 April 2008 (BST)
2. Spam - we don't need no education, we don't need no complicated heirarchy of shotgun rounds - hey! PKer! Leave those flaks alone! --Funt Solo ^QT 20:25, 16 April 2008 (BST)
3. Spam - TL;DR. Also, this will over-complicate things for newbs.--Sgt. Napalm 23:41, 16 April 2008 (BST)