Suggestion:20100519 Increase variety of useful melee weapons

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20100519 Increase variety of useful melee weapons

Corndoghero^T-S-Z 07:07, 19 May 2010 (BST)

Suggestion type
New Skills in order to adjust weapon balance

Suggestion scope
Anyone who might use, or come in contact with, a melee weapon; roleplayers

Suggestion description
As we all know, out of the many melee weapons available for player use, only two really have any usefulness: The Fire Axe primarily, and the Knife having a much more situational, and therefore less common usefulness. But really, it just doesn't seem right that in a zombie apocalypse, everyone is using the exact same weapon; however, no one but the most hardcore of roleplayers is going to sacrifice their AP efficiency in order to create a more believable setting.

Therefore, I propose that upon the acquisition of every survivor skill, a survivor gains the ability to purchase the zombie hunter skill "Improvised Weapon Mastery"; and that upon the acquisition of all zombie skills sans brain rot and such subskills, a zombie gains access to the skill "Fiendish Grip". These skills would be slightly different numbers-wise, but would serve identical purposes.

First, Improvised weapon mastery. In short, what this skill would do would be to buff the accuracy and damage of any melee weapon that has no secondary purpose (i.e. the cricket bat would be buffed, but not the toolbox) to the accuracy and damage levels of either the Fire Axe or the Knife.

The list:

Fire Axe stats:

• Crowbar (Its secondary purpose is obsolete by the time the requirements for this skill have been fulfilled. However, its hit rate against barricades is not buffed)
• Baseball Bat
• Length of Pipe (see crowbar)
• Cricket Bat
• Hockey Stick
• Beer/Wine bottles

Knife stats:

• Fencing Foil
• Ski pole
• Golf Club
• Tennis Racket
• Pool Cue (would also lose its chance of breaking)

And for the Zombies' Fiendish Grip, the effect would be similar: Zombies would gain access to every melee weapon, and each of these would be buffed to the accuracy and damage levels of a maxed out zombie claw; this includes those with other uses such as toolboxes, as zombies cannot access those functions.

Some have raised concerns on the Developing Suggestions page about survivors having full combat ability with certain weapons, among other aspects of this suggestion. I'll address those concerns briefly:

Note that a survivor must have all survivor skills in order to have Improvised Weapon Mastery; therefore, functions which are only helpful to newbies do not count as a secondary function.

• Crowbars: When a survivor has full axe skill, their barricade hit rate is the same whether they use an axe or a crowbar.

• Pipes: A maxed-out survivor has the construction skill already

• Bottles: The purpose of excluding weapons with other functions is so as not to provide a survivor buff by removing the need to carry a weapon in addition to useful items. Bottles, however, break when used in combat, and so one must still use a conventional weapon most of the time.

• Zombie Use of melee items: Some may argue that it is not in flavor for zombies to use melee weapons. I would disagree with this assertion; many forms of zombie entertainment depict zombies fighting with whatever blunt instrument they were holding at the time of their death. In addition, it's not like every zombie would use this; just High-Level zombies who want to take the trouble to get a melee weapon. Most would use claws, but some would use weapons and lend a little variety.

• Tangling Grasp: Fiendish Grip would indeed be compatible with tangling grasp (hold in one hand and bash with the other). After all, this suggestion is to increase flavor/RP options without changing combat.

Hopefully this suggestion would increase the variety of weapons and roleplaying seen throughout Malton.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep Author Keep--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 07:08, 19 May 2010 (BST)
2. Keep though change the names of the skills, probably. 'Improvisation' and 'Muscle Memory' perhaps? 16:10, 19 May 2010 (BST)
3. Keep I have no idea why I like this. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:14, 19 May 2010 (BST)
4. Keep Has some minor issues (like the hard-to-implement Fiendish Grip at 19 zombie skills), but is overall a good idea to increase variety. -- Spiderzed▋ 18:18, 19 May 2010 (BST)
5. Keep - My inability to efficiently pretend I am Shawn of the Dead irks me. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:37, 19 May 2010 (BST)
6. Keep - I have a character for whom a baseball bat would make much more sense than his current knife.--Pinata 08:21, 29 May 2010 (BST)
7. Keep - I like it.--Truezombieboy 04:54, 6 June 2010 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - Simply not a fan of the idea. —Aichon— 08:57, 19 May 2010 (BST)
2. Kill - Melee is fine atm. And while I'm here, Improved Weapon Mastery is practically a name from from Diablo. Fiends Grip is something from Dota. Less fantasy RPG influence pls --
    
    
    
    
   09:39, 19 May 2010 (BST)

   Re:I've honestly never played either of those, I just went with the first decent names that popped into my head. Anyway, they are not the important part of the suggestion; it is the adjustment of weapon stats--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 12:43, 19 May 2010 (BST)

   Right you are, however, that was just extraneous joking on the right of my actual reason, melee balance is fine, others are for the [god forsaken and ever-hated by me] "developer-endorsed roleplaying value". And even by RP value, this isn't particularly good. Tennis Racquets, Pool Sticks, etc shouldn't be able to kill as efficiently as a fire axe, but I'll leave it to the RP whingers to elaborate on those reasons. --

    

    

    

    

   13:30, 19 May 2010 (BST)

3. Kill - while I agree with the sentiment of getting more use out of melee weapons ( my PKer likes a bit of variety), and the way these have been organised into "fire axe" and "knife" groups is good, I don't think an extra skill is the way to go here. As cool as whacking zombies with a cricket bat is, it's just not as deadly as an axe to the head. And the idea of zombies using weapons is a big no-no in my book - they have enough trouble just standing up. Chief Seagull squawk ^{grown-ups agree with Nick} 10:00, 19 May 2010 (BST)

   Re: If a zombie player has trouble just standing up, they are under no obligation to use anything but their innate attacks--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 12:43, 19 May 2010 (BST)

4. Kill - Because DDR mentioned Diablo in his vote.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:18, 19 May 2010 (BST)
5. Kill - First, why would, say, a cricket bat do as much damage as an axe? And second, you should at least let the toolbox kill something easily. It's awesome! --^A_O^R_D^M_O^P_R^I _! ^T 21:51, 19 May 2010 (BST)
6. Kill - As VVV, but since there seemed to be some actual intelligence behind this suggestion I'm not going to Spam it. Better luck next time. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 08:15, 20 May 2010 (BST)
7. Kill - It's unrealistic, and I can't find a good use for it for RPing purposes... --Colette Hart 01:31, 23 May 2010 (BST)
8. Kill - In all honesty, this suggestion sounds like it would lower RP purposes and realism, as weapons which would would not normally be as deadly as a fireaxe (such as a pool cue) suddenly have the same stopping power as a bladed, meant-to-break-things tool. For that reason, I cannot stand behind this. --Private Mark 02:41, 23 May 2010 (BST)
9. Kill - While I see your point, I just don't think it's necessary. I've coped fine for my seventeen months of playing with an axe and knife as my melee weapons. Better luck another time. William Roy 12:53, 23 May 2010 (BST)
10. Kill - Boosting the stats up to a fire axe level is crazy. How is a cricket bat going to hurt the same as an axe to the face? --Johnny Yossarian 23:25, 23 May 2010 (BST)
11. These weapons are simply not as good, just like in real life. And I'm fine with that. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 22:00, 31 May 2010 (BST)
12. As DDR. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} (status:‎Mudkip!) 22:40, 10 June 2010 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - So you're going to multiply the find-rates for knives and axes (or things that are axes or knives but happen to have different flavour text) by a factor of about a gajillion? And this is balanced how? Also, two silly new skills? No thanks. --WanYao 08:30, 19 May 2010 (BST)

   Re:By the time they can buy one of these skills, doubtless they already have their melee weapon--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 12:43, 19 May 2010 (BST)

2. Spam - I was originally going to vote kill on the grounds that adding skills is ridiculous, but Wan is right about the search boost. This is a massive, unnecessary change which would only serve to make the game less realistic. You may as well rename all melee weapons 'Fireaxe' for people with the skill. And no, the knife is far from useless. It's the one weapon I use the most. Furthermore, you are a terrible KISSer. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:37, 20 May 2010 (BST)

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