Suggestions/26th-Jul-2006

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Manholes and breaking up zombie hoardes

Timestamp: 12:30, 26 July (BST)
Type: world change
Scope: All streets and open locations
Description: Have you noticed how many times on the wiki people express the opinion that actually fighting zombies is useless for anything except gaining experience? Some people have even suggested that the best way to defeat a large group of zombies is to repeatedly rebarricade whatever building they are attacking and sit tight until they get bored and go away. Actually attackin them is sometimes seen as counterproductive because it makes seige more interesting for them.

I'm not about to say that these opinions are wrong - for a start I can see that they are based around sound tactics, given the way the game functions. However, when irritation and tedium becomes the survivors greatest weapons I begin to think something is wrong.

This suggestion gives the survivors a way to forceably break up zombie hordes without resorting to permadeath. It can be assumed that any outdoor location - streets and open blocks - have manhole covers that lead down to the sewer systems underneath Malton. As a 10 AP action a survivor can throw corpses lying in the street down into the sewer.

The corpse drifts around until the player sends the AP to stand up, at which point the zombie claws its way towards the nearest light source and re-emerges onto the streets. However, they are now standing at some randomly determined point in Malton, alive(ish), well, but probably a long way from the hoard they started off with. Getting out of the sewer doesn't cost anymore AP's than just standing up usually does - all the normal modifications such as head shot and ankle grab still apply.

There are probably quite a few zombie player who are about to scream "No way!", but think about it, this modification is designed to make combat more exciting for everyone. Surely the game would be better if a zombie group could be defeated by something other than SHEER BORDEM? It wouls also lead survivors to use fewer AP wasting tactics, like putting genoraters in EHB building and then running away.

P.S. Please refrain from jokes about 'flushing' zombies from an area...

Votes

Keep - My idea and I'm voting for it. -- The Mad Axeman Sign your vote, properly. –Xoid 15:03, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  1. Keep On Wheels - Liquid-Plumbr for Zombie Hordes! Breaks up those clogs of dead flesh outside your safehouse in no time at all! --John Taggart 13:42, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill - So you would like to send all those nice little zombies to sewer ride? I really don't know what to say.. --Niilomaan 13:46, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  3. Kill - No, it'll ruin my idea to make a game called Sub-Urban Dead where the fight has been taken down into the sewers and it's the Zombies verses the mutants. To find items you have to search through the sewerage under the building that they normaly would be found in. - Jedaz 14:03, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill - But I'd play Jedaz's game in a heartbeat --Gene Splicer 14:12, 26 July 2006 Edit: Actually, if you made it cost 1ap per zombie, and implemented Xoid's other suggestions, I'd go for it --Gene Splicer 14:18, 26 July 2006 (BST)(BST)
    • Re - 1 AP per corpse sounds fine to me. The Mad Axeman 21:32, 26 July 2006 (BST) EDIT: On second thoughts, I think I should explain why I said 10 AP's for all corpses. I wanted to dicourage the use of this ability against lone zombies, so stray ferals didn't end up being repeatedly killed and flushed. 10 AP's against a single corpse would make it uneconomical. Like I said, though, I'm not totally opposed to it being 1 AP per corpse. The Mad Axeman 21:57, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  5. Kill - So I can get killed in New Arkham, and end up in Dulston? Ha ha. No. Make the AP cost to get out 1, and the relocation to be within a 1–3 squares away at most. Remember: since headshot would still apply, anything more than the changes I'm suggesting would be massively overpowered. –Xoid 14:14, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Reading Xoids suggestions makes me think something has been misunderstood. There is no AP cost to climb out of the sewer. You just pay to stand up as usually and get out of the sewer for free. The Mad Axeman 21:32, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  6. Spam - Don't move my character for me. --Mookiemookie 14:36, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  7. Spam - You're not supposed to be fighting zombies anyway. You're supposed to clear them of a building, barricades it up, search a little, and then run and do the same thing over somewhere else. It's called a nomadic lifestyle. It works. PKers do it all the time. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 14:39, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Oddly, that is what I do, for the very reason that fighting zombies is pointless. The Mad Axeman 18:16, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - Laughs abound - wander to a revive point and throw all the bodies down the sewer..... --BBM 14:44, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  9. Kill - if you'll notice, it won't effect building sieges all that much, because it says in the suggestion streets and open blocks - have manhole covers that lead down to the sewer systems underneath Malton. Although, change it to where revivifying bodies can't be dumped, and you have a solid suggestion --DJSMITHCDF 14:47, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    • Re - My idea was that you would have to kill the zombies already inside the building and then throw them out. If you could flush zombies from inside buildings it would be too easy. The Mad Axeman 18:19, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  10. Spam - I'm sure there's something about not moving other peoples characters for them? At least not anything more than moving them between the interior and exterior of a building. Anyway. I can't see a way for this suggestion to be fixed. With this suggestion a zombie could be thrown into the sewer and end up in a suburb where they don't want to be and the same would also apply to a reviving corpse - I don't particually want to wake up and find I've floated into the middle of Riddleybank or something. Also, is it possible for the zombies to buy the skill 'floater' which means no matter how much you flush them they just won't go down? --Tethran 14:48, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  11. Spam You already have headshot. Don't grief the living fuck out of Zombies, especially new zombies without Shambling Gait that would take fucking forever to get out of these sewers. – Nubis 14:51, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  12. SPAM - Pied Piper. Seiges are a fact of life. -- 343 U! 14:53, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  13. Spam Another consideration is just how badly this would fuck over survivors trying to get revives, when they're constantly getting flushed from one end of the city to another. Hmm... then again, I kinda like that. But I would. Petrosjko 14:54, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    • Re - I don't think it would effect revived corpses that much. With every few random revives, most revived zombies are going to be at cemetaries and marked revive points. Only zombie spies and griefers are going to want to flush someone who wants to come back to the living. However, if the flushing message said who did it, then such people would end up with the same problems as Pker's. The Mad Axeman 18:28, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - I might keep on a suggestion involving a smaller, random chance every half of moving one square in any random direction, with a probability such that the average displacement after the fact was 10 squares. --Burgan 14:59, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  15. Spam - spammity spammity spam spam --Gage 15:56, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  16. Spam - Newbie griefing pied piper taken to a whole new level. --Nob666 16:22, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  17. Keep - Despite what everyone else has said, this still sounds like a very good idea to me. Finally, it will be possible for human groups to clear a suburb of zombies. Achieveable goals such as these for survivors would, IMO, improve the game. It's interesting to see how this suggestion avoids the common criticisms of pied piper skills.--Toejam 17:08, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  18. Kill - I like it because it gives survivors a reason to favor combat over re-cading, and zombies can almost always find food wherever they turn up. It will hurt the meta-gaming zeds who like to focus on a particular target at a time, but for me the real problem is the effect on feeding groan. If the zombie drifts out of the groaning range of the rest of his horde, he'll be lost. If there were some limit to how far away the sewers could carry you (perhaps six blocks max), I think I could keep this. --Ember MBR 17:23, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  19. Spam - As already stated, don't move other people's characters --Adrian 18:06, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  20. keep - if zombies can move living players, survivors can move dead zombies! (and they already can by dumping bodies so theres no poblem with moving the other people part) - John Teabags 18:08, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    • Re - They already do, sparky. It's called dumping bodies. --Mookiemookie 18:17, 26 July 2006 (BST) Non author Re struck. See how ridiculous the "strike out" rule is? Everyone can still read what someone wrote. Someone should change that policy --Mookiemookie 18:17, 26 July 2006 (BST)
      • Re - But I think it's funny... Should we take this to discussion page? --Niilomaan 18:24, 26 July 2006 (BST) Non author Re struck. --Niilomaan 18:24, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  21. Spam - This suggestion is so pathetically broken. Trenchcoating, pied piper skills, expensive does not equal balanced, etc. No way in hell. –Bob Hammero Mod•T•A•C 18:21, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  22. Spam - Gross overpowered. With this centaurish power, survivor forces would even take ridleybank in a matter of days.--Thari 18:45, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  23. kill - but only because it goes too far; limit it to either the same suburb or better a 6 block radius and thats a keep from me. one thought though it should involve a delay (possibly from having to click 10 seperate times) if you are trying to stuff a body in the sewer while surrounded you are going to be horribly vulnerable, esp if the bugger has enough ap to get up!--Honestmistake 18:56, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  24. Spam - This isn't Nexus War. Agent Heroic 19:20, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  25. Spam - What Agent Heroic said. --Max Grivas JG,T,P! 21:50, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  26. Kill -I like Xoid's additions. Something the suggestor is forgetting though is that, are people having FUN. Are survivors having fun waiting until the zombies get bored and go away? Or are they having fun going out and trying to kill some? Running away? This suggestion doesn't really make it fun for zombies and I can't see how it makes it fun for survivors either, now that I think about it. Basically, as I read it, I have to leave my safe house, go to a non-building square with a zombie in it and spend 10 AP to knock him down into the sewer? I just checked the NecroNet where I'm at and there isn't a SINGLE zombie on a non-building square. So how/when would this ever be used? While I like that it makes use of useless squares, it seems more like a griefer skill than something intended to "break a horde."--Pesatyel 21:58, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    • Re - As I understand it all buildings have streets outside them - that where you go when you press the leave building button. Throw corpses out of building then step out yourself and dump them. The Mad Axeman 09:52, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  27. Spam-Thari is right.--ShadowScope 22:02, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  28. Kill-This suggestion has some good ideas, but frankly the way they're being implemented is just too powerful. Tone it down, tweak it a bit, then maybe I'd consider a keep for it. It'd throw the balance way too much towards humans, even though they could use it a bit right now what with the whole map going red.--Experiment C 00:17, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  29. Spam - WTFCentaurs? This is.... wow... Too powerful. -- BeefSteak WTF 03:30, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  30. Spam - 10 AP action to push a zombie anywhere on the map? Limit to "within suburb" or "within (some modicum of limitation)" such as within 10 or 15 blocks and then I'll still vote kill but at least its not a spam. --Karlsbad 04:43, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  31. bacon - i like corn!! woot!! cooorn!! yay!! gimme some corn!!!! --Poopman9
    • Invalid vote. --Brizth M T 19:16, 28 July 2006 (BST)
  32. Kill - Leave my body alone! David Malfisto 18:21, 29 July 2006 (BST)

Second Server

Spaminated with 7 Spams, 1 Kill, and 1 Keep. Most voters did not like the idea aside from having a "newbie area." –Bob Hammero Mod•B'crat•T•A 18:36, 26 July 2006 (BST)

Limitation to how many suburbs can be under zombie or survivor control

Spaminated. Using moderator privilege to remove this. –Xoid S•T•FU! 14:45, 26 July 2006 (BST)

Tutorial

Removed By Author, improved version below. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Canuhearmenow (talk • contribs) .

Tutorial V2.0

Timestamp: 17:27, 26 July 2006 (BST)
Type: Change.
Scope: Newbies.
Description: Do you agree that the opening page is not enough for newbs? My idea is in the mainpage you can click a button called "Start Tutorial" This tutorial would make a random character in a practice suburb about 3 blocks into the border squares, so a veteran can't enter it. In this tutorial (Easy to write because people could volunteer to write coding) It would tell newbs with an invisible instructor about where to go, what AP is, how to attack, how to search, death is not everything, and XP managment. There would be different tutorials depending on starting class. The practice suburb can be exited by pressing a button called "exit tutorial" The suburb called be called "Sandboxville" and the tutorial automatically ends upon Completing the Tutorial. If you have any advice on how to improve please say so in your vote.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author Vote, I remember when I thought you can only press search once.--Canuhearmenow 17:27, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  2. Keep - Oooooooooo. Newb helping suggestions like this one get my vote. If new players get given some sort of guide on how the game works, the number of players may increase because newbs wont get so frustrated by not knowing what to do. -- Krazy Monkey W! 17:35, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Is it Ok If I changed the timestamp? (I put 4 ~ instead of 5)--Canuhearmenow 17:36, 26 July 2006 (BST)
      • Re - Mods: I've changed the timestamp on his suggestion to the same time as his vote so that it doesn't look odd. -- Krazy Monkey W! 17:53, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  3. Keep - Newbie helping is good. --Paradox244 18:04, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill - No. I liked being the newb with no idea where to go and what to do. It was exciting. Also don't we have wiki and FAQ to tell them what to do? --Niilomaan 18:08, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  5. Kill - I know it seems hard for n00bs, but really; thats the fun part about starting to play, trying to find somewhere new, how to deal with things... otherwise the novelty will wear off... --Adrian 18:09, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  6. keep if people don't want the tutorial they dont have to read it :D -- John Teabags 18:15, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - More help for new players is good, but I find the idea of a sandbox suburb problematic. For example, who will you be fighting with? Other newbie players? What if there aren't enough using the sandbox at the time? What if they're all survivors? --Ember MBR 18:31, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - Totally unnecessary. There a FAQs and the wiki, and also like Niilomaan, I loved the newb panic running around crazy zombie city where do we go oh no!?! Not worth the time, and I'm not a fan of having other people volunteer to code unless Kevan solicits it. Also, a lot of the depth of the game is the social dynamic, which you can't really write an intro for. The players have built the game, you can't be told how to play in that regard.--Burgan 18:37, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  9. Kill - Maybe I'm just a grouchy old-timer bastard, but I think that newbies today should have to learn the same way that I did: by trying things, screwing up, learning from their mistakes, and getting involved in the greater community. This game was built by the players. Let's keep it that way. –Bob Hammero Mod•T•A•C 18:43, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - Newbies should learn by trail and error.And plus,if they need help,they have the wiki to go to.--Axe Hack 18:47, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  11. Kill - Axe Hacks speaks for me.--Thari 18:50, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  12. kill - was voting kill as its harmless but then i read Bob's vote and i guess i am a mean old bastard too cos i am voting kill!--Honestmistake 19:00, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  13. Keep - Axe Hack proves his theory wrong. Trial and Error? Didn't we go through that this morning? You final learned when The General force fed it down your throat. Tiral and Error would you be keep doing it, not someone telling you what to do. A tutorial is needed. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 19:08, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  14. Keep -We really do need a tutorial. I like that you can choose to use it or not as well. --Grigori 19:31, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  15. Spam-Don't you see? The turotial end when one gets to Level 3. What does that mean? It means it will be an XP Farm! Zergers will be able to make their characters in peace, and then head off to start zerging! No.Kill-Didn't see you changed that part. Sorry. Still, see above. Trial by Fire is better.--ShadowScope 19:36, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  16. Kill - I agree with the above. Take out the element of the unknown when you've entered the game, and you remove half the fun of it. --Rgon 20:11, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - Exlporing the universe is part of the fun. --Max Grivas JG,T,P! 21:53, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  18. Kill -I see some potential, but the suggestion is not nearly thought out enough. The main problem is as ShadowScope says, the potential for zergers. Or like John Ember pointed out, whom would these people be fighting? In addition, how long would it last? Would this be the players ACTUAL character (ShadowScope's comment about zergers)?--Pesatyel 22:05, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill - The revolution will not get rid of the nubs. --Ron Burgundy 22:17, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  20. Kill - The Tutorial is the Wiki. Give a message telling the link and 'Read this now to avoid mistakes'. -- BeefSteak 03:15, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  21. Kill - The idea has potential, but for me to vote a keep you would have to clarify some things. Such as: Who will the "newbies" be fighting?, would enemies fight back?, and how does the tutorial end of the "newbie" is playing it"? Clean the suggestion up, and we'll see. Though I think a video of someone playing UD with a speaker explaining the game with captions at the bottom would be better. --49ers 07:02, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  22. keep - Although I think perhaps we would need two suburbs - one for surviovors and one for zombies. I think this might be the only place were NPC characters might have a place in Malton. They would just stand there and get attacked, healed, or even revived. I also think that everyone should see their own 'ghost' suburb, rather then putting all the new players in the same one. It wouldn't really need to be more then a 3x3 square - one screen. One building should be heavily barricade, to illustrate that most 1st level characters, and the rest open (which should have zombies in them to make thepoint) or strongly barricaded I'd suggest that the tutorial be different for different classes. I do, however, understand that this could take time to program. The Mad Axeman 10:07, 27 July 2006 (BST)EDIt: No experience should be gained in the tutorial. The Mad Axeman 10:09, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  23. Keep - To the Trial and Error people I say... As the game progresses, the likelyhood of Error being the result of Trial gets larger with evey update. Sandbox areas are damned useful --Gene Splicer 11:11, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  24. spammity spammity spamtard- i h8 this idea. heer are reasons: xp pignata, takes away the fun of the unknown, and no more newbs! =-*( this stinks.---Poopman9
    • Invalid vote + no timestamp. --Brizth M T 19:16, 28 July 2006 (BST)
  25. Kill - I love newbs. But really, what's the worst that can happen to a newb? David Malfisto 18:23, 29 July 2006 (BST)

Hp for Kills

spaminated with 8/8 Spam votes--Gage 20:22, 26 July 2006 (BST)

I was just starting to move this, you know! - HerrStefantheGreat 20:23, 26 July 2006 (BST)
*blows smoke off gun*... sure you were--Gage 20:24, 26 July 2006 (BST)

Surgery Alteration

Removed by author. Painfully obvious that my keep would end up being the only one, and making ya'll hate me even more serves no purpose. --Paradox244 01:29, 27 July 2006 (BST)

Dismemberment V.2

Spamminated with 6 spams out of 9 votes (no keeps). Most votes ran around the "don't grief/nerf skill-set" variety with loads of "unsavable idea" on top. --Karlsbad 04:39, 27 July 2006 (BST)

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