Suggestions/5th-Jul-2006

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Closed Suggestions

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Scent Rot and Healing Decay

Timestamp: 03:50, 5 July 2006 (BST)
Type: Skills
Scope: Zombies
Description: The two previous versions of this suggestion suffered from a couple of flaws (removing zombie anonymity, and being next to useless by preserving zombie anonymity but not providing anything really useful). Instead of trying to slightly change the same idea, I've decided to competely rewrite the idea from the ground up, and make it more useful, at the risk of having people knee-jerk vote Spam or Kill on it.

Survivors have a way to determine the health of other survivors (Diagnosis). Zombies, however, have no way of determining the health of other zombies, to preserve zombie anonymity. This suggestion would implement two skills that touch on controversial ideas -- zombie anonymity and healing other zombies. Before you jump to the end and vote against it, please read through the entire suggestion, and read my prepared responses to the arguments against the suggestion that I expect to receive.

This suggestion would create two new 100 XP skills, Scent Rot and Healing Decay. They would be implemented in the Scent Fear skill tree as follows:

  • Scent Fear
    • Scent Blood
    • Scent Trail
    • Scent Death
    • Scent Rot
      • Healing Decay

To prevent abuse, survivors with Scent Rot or Healing Decay would not be able to use the skills.

Zombies with Scent Rot would see the HP values of nearby zombies. The HP would be displayed in such a way that zombie anonymity is preserved, however. If a square had a single zombie, its HP would be displayed. If there were more than one zombie in a square, the average HP of all zombies would be displayed.

However, more useful information would be displayed along with the location description. A zombie with Scent Rot might see, for example, You are standing outside a junkyard. There are 4 other zombies here (31 HP, 50 HP, 2 HP, 60 HP). You recognize SomeZombiePlayer amongst them. There would be no names associated with the HP values, however, and the name popup would still only contain "a zombie," so that individual zombies could not be selected.

Being able to tell what HP values other zombies have isn't very useful without being able to heal, however. Zombies with Healing Decay would be able to heal other zombies through the following process:

  • While at a cemetery, zombies with Healing Decay would have a new button, Exhume Corpse. Pressing this button would cause zombies to search the cemetery for fresh corpses to exhume, at the cost of 1 AP. Fresh corpses would be found at the same success rate as First Aid Kits, with status messages as follows: You search for freshly dug graves, but can't find any, or Searching the cemetery, you tear a limb from a freshly dug grave. Upon success, zombies would gain a new item in their inventories, corpse limb, which would take up the same amount of space as a First Aid Kit.
  • With a corpse limb in their inventories, zombies with Healing Decay would be able to consume the limb and gain 4 HP, at the cost of 1 AP. The corpse limb would be removed from the zombies inventories afterwords.
  • When around wounded zombies, zombies with Healing Decay would have a new button, Heal Zombies. Pressing this button would select the first wounded zombie from the stack and heal them for 4 HP at the cost of 1 AP. The corpse limb would be removed from the zombies inventories afterwords.

Prepared responses to criticism:

  • It removes zombie anonymity. This is not the case with Scent Rot, since there would be no way to connect HP values with zombies that you see, unless you're standing on the same square as a zombie that you have in your contact list, and they are the only zombie on the square (e.g., You are standing outside a junkyard. There is 1 other zombies here (31 HP). It is SomeZombiePlayer.). This is minor however. Furthermore, since Healing Decay only selects the first wounded zombie off the stack, there is no way of knowing what zombie you are healing (unless you are in the same situation outlined above). For both skills, the name popup would still only contain "a zombie."
  • Zombies can already heal themselves. This is true, but Healing Decay provides a different way for zombies to heal themselves when there are no survivors around, or heal other zombies if they need it.
  • Zombies shouldn't be able to be healed more easily, because death doesn't matter a lot to them. While dying as a zombie is easier than dying as a survivor, there is still no reason that zombies shouldn't be able to heal each other in some way. The costs involved in, and HP restored by, Healing Decay is balanced in such a way that it would allow more zombie coordination without unbalancing things.

If you like the suggestion but think it needs revision, please say what you would like changed in your vote and I will consider revising it again.

And remember: zombies are players too, and the game would have no point without them.

Votes

  1. Author Keep - I like my idea. –Bob Hammero T•W!•P! 03:50, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill - I liked this suggestion a lot more. I don't mind zombies being able to heal themselves but I think a member of the undead trying to heal one of his buddies is going a bit too far. --Sig.PNGtalk 03:56, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  3. Kill It's really out of genre for a zombie to graverob, save pieces of bodies for later, and go around serving them to other zombies like some sort of medical waiter. --Jon Pyre 04:36, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill I just don't think Diagnosis-for-Zombies is a useful tool for zombies - there's not really a point, as zombies don't care much for HP. Adding zombie healing to justify it? Nah. Not a zombie, but I imagine there's a lot that's higher up on their wishlist. Rheingold 04:51, 5 July 2006 (BST).
    • Re Try playing a zombie sometime, and you'll see that you're wrong. Zombies do care about HP, just not as much as survivors. If you don't have experience on the other side, please don't talk about it like you know it. –Bob Hammero T•W!•P! 05:22, 5 July 2006 (BST)
      • Re Fair enough! The point I was trying to get across is that without healing, zombiegnosis is useless (as zombies can't distinguish individuals, and even if they spot wounded, they can't do anything about it.) Healing was added in this revision to try and give a use to the skill (as you admit) yet the other voters don't like it. I've voted consistently for zombie buffs. I just think this one is out of genre. Rheingold 06:30, 5 July 2006 (BST).
  5. Kill - The idea of using the limbs of a corpse to heal another zombie doesn't really work. The current style of the game is that a non-active character is "asleep" (including zombies). FAK can be used on a sleeping character because all the work is being done by the healer. In the case of this suggestion, the target zombie would be required to eat the limb, thus the work is actually being done by the target zombie and not the healing zombie. What if, instead, the healer zombie uses pieces of the corpse to "fill in" the damaged areas on the target zombie? And, on a side note, the whole notion that zombies "don't care about HP" is kinda stupid (no offense to anyone), after all why bother with Digestion then? I think the basic problem, to which that phrase is often used, is that there have been no GOOD zombie HP suggestions.--Pesatyel 04:57, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  6. Kill - Certainly the best of the Sense Rot revisions, but I kinda think this might be flogging a dead horse. The idea of zombies healing each other, while it does add that dimension to gameplay, doesn't fit with the whole concept. Zombies tend to be less organized, and not so generous. Just my thought. --Rgon 05:02, 5 July 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Perhaps, but how many people do you know who could carry a generator, ten shotguns, ten pistols, a radio transmitter, a first aid kit, a fire axe, and ammunition all at once? If the game were realistic, it wouldn't be any fun. Edit: and anyway, we're talking about a zombie game. Realism? Already gone. :) –Bob Hammero T•W!•P! 06:10, 5 July 2006 (BST)
      • Re - Fair point, but realism isn't really what I'm addressing. It's the spirit or the game, moreover. The zombie, as presented, is an anonymous, mostly brainless, and primarily self-serving creature, rather than a thinking, strategizing fellow seeking to create an effective society, where all zombies are of equal importance and have representation in the continuing development of their environs. No, more like: survivor bad, must eat survivor. I think it's enough of a violation of the spirit of the game to shoot down the added dimension of gameplay (which would probably be nice for zombie gameplay, really). Kind of unfortunate, how that works out. --Rgon 07:20, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - Zombies carrying X number of limbs to share with their brethren doesn't fit the genre of the game. It does fit the spirit of BARHAH tough, kudos for that Bob =). --Matthew Fahrenheit Talk 05:49, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - Zombies shouldn't be able to be healed more easily, because death doesn't matter a lot to them. Also, I dislike zombies using any form of item. What happens if they're carrying two arms, a leg, and a head, and get revived? --Burgan 05:51, 5 July 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Nothing special happens. And can't zombies use crowbars currently? –Bob Hammero T•W!•P! 06:10, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  9. Spam - I share Pesatyel's view about healing - How can a zombie heal another without the target zombie eating the limb?? That would require that the target zombie be active, which will make this a whole lot more difficult. Besides, as others said, it just doesn't sound right to have limb-suppliers running around. With just one AP, a zombie can just stand up, without loosing anything (in the absence of a Headshot) - so it doesn't matter if a zombie is hurt (I have played as a zombie for months, never caring about HP) - after getting the Ankle Grab skill. --W3c 07:00, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - I like this idea. Only change I'd like to see is the healing other zombie part. Apart from that it's a great idea. -- Krazy Monkey W! 09:01, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  11. Spam - Oh so you want to use cemetaries rather than "real" dead bodies? That makes a real difference. You are not Doc Butcher. - David Malfisto 12:15, 5 July 2006 (BST)
    • Re - If you actually bothered to read the page you linked to, you would see that it says "First-Aid kits must be searched for but you can't take a step without walking on a corpse." This is a first aid kit type of idea, not a player corpse type of idea. –Bob Hammero T•W!•P! 18:11, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  12. Kill - Sounds good except fot the healing part. --Nob666 12:27, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  13. Kill - Like Krazy Monkey said, I like this idea. All you have to do is change the whole idea, and it would be brilliant. Zombies healing other zombies is bad, therefore zombie diagnosis is bad, therefore this suggestion is bad. - HerrStefantheGreat 12:45, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - lol zombie medics --Mookiemookie 16:12, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill - Bob while I respect your opinion, zeds don't need a healer.. They can jump out a window for cripes sake. Through Meta-gaming they can have their "buddy" kill them for a full life. While I like the anonymity that you have proposed for the sake of zeds to be able to see if someone is overly injured etc.. Like Mookie said... ??? Zed Medics ??? --Steel Hammer 02:11, 6 July 2006 (BST)
  16. Kill - I'm not happy with the idea of zombie inventories -- nevermind the logistics of having it carry/not carry over to the survivor side, but the idea of zombie items itself. I'm also unsure about how the HP is displayed, for you say in one place that an average HP is dislayed, but then that individual amounts will be shown elsewhere in the suggestion. --Kenny Matthews 03:32, 6 July 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - Even if you use the best odds for searching for FAK's to find limbs it would be 40 or so AP to get fully healed with this. Need I say more? - Jedaz 05:30, 6 July 2006 (BST)
  18. Kill - Zombies are dead, so there's not much use healing them is there? --Paradox244 20:16, 7 July 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill - too complex and not in genre. Zombies already have a magic stand up button that heals them completely for around 6 AP. -- Mettaur 13:14, 10 July 2006 (BST)
  20. Kill - I like the ideia just don´t agree with it. The fact is ... if you are a Zombie you don´t need a "medic kit" because you know when you die your HP ´ll be restored. --Danilo r 03:58, 14 July 2006 (BST)

Armoury Change

withdraw by author--Sig.PNGtalk 07:10, 5 July 2006 (BST)

Observe Spraypainting

Timestamp: 10:39, 05 July 2006 (BST)
Type: Improvement
Scope: All
Description: The game posts a message when someone (and tells you who they are) broadcasts in the same location as you, however, it does not tell you who has spraypainted a message in the same location as you. So basically, what this suggestion is, is that when you are sitting inside a building and someone spraypaints something you get a message e.g.:

Since your last turn: Spraypainter spraypainted a message on the wall.

This would allow people to see when others have spraypainted over 'official' graffiti and who is guilty. Although this may seem a little harsh on those who wish to disrupt the running of certain organisations, I feel that in realistic terms, this should be implimented as you would be able to see people spraypainting in real life

Votes

  1. Keep - I like it. Would be handy for identifying members of opposing groups that inhabit the same territory. --A Bothan Spy Mod WTF U! 10:55, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  2. Keep - I like it. Even though I am one of those people who spraypaint to disrupt certain organizations, I want others to know it was me. DarkStar2374383 11:06, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  3. Keep Me like - HerrStefantheGreat 11:31, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill - Yikes! A graffiti artists anonymity is just as sacred as a zombies. This is a direct nerf of spraycans. Give me break. Almost Spam. –Spraycan Willy MalTel·T 11:55, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  5. Keep - On the one hand, message spam sucks. On the other, so does "STREETS IS WATCHIN'" - David Malfisto 12:17, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  6. Keep - As HerrStefantheGreat. --Swmono talk - W! - P! - SGP 12:30, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  7. Keep - Handy. STREETS IS WATCHIN'. --Nob666 12:32, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  8. Keep - I wish saying that was a bannable offense. I really do. –Xoid 13:02, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep - I like it. It allows those who want the notoriety to get it. Those who want anonymity will be forced to time things better... every building is empty sometime. 'The coast is clear, I tag it!' Jenny D'ArcT 13:30, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  10. Keep - Beware Disciples of Zeko, for you will soon be hunted by your prey! I really like this idea. --Abi79 AB 13:43, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep In Soviet Russia, YOU is watchin' STREETS! Rheingold 13:46, 5 July 2006 (BST). Additionally, in Soviet Russia, dead horse flogs YOU! Rheingold 13:48, 5 July 2006 (BST).
  12. Kill - Your average real life tagger is anonymous. So it should be in UD. EDIT thank you, Nubis, for pointing out how funny the phrase "official graffitti" is. People take themselves way too seriously, and for that....I laugh. --Mookiemookie 13:59, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  13. Spam - Because implementing a skill because you don't like people tagging over 'official' (lol) group tags and want to kill them is just retarded. Please go die in a fire, kthx. – Nubis 14:35, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - taggers should be anonymous to keep the entertainmentvalue of tags. Realism is not an issue here or we would be able to identify some zombies based on their description, or not be able to identify vast swathes of survivors - Mortificant 14:58, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill - STREETS IS NO MORE WATCHIN' --EnForcer32 15:05, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  16. SPAM - This is getting silly. What next? Mr X Reloaded his gun? Mr X Searched and found nothing? Mr X Picked his nose? This is a spam vote because 1: this will lead to lotys and lots of spam, and 2: This is fucking stupid. --Grim s-Mod U! 16:12, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  17. Spam - this would create in-game spam, so I spam this idea here--Sig.PNGtalk 16:20, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  18. Kill - I agree that taggers should be anonymous. It's supposed to be a surreptitious activity, after all, right? And revive points and the like that need specific tags willo just have to keep them up like always. I like it as is. --Rgon 16:23, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill - Agree with Grim, too much spam. With the 4th of July Fireworks and massed feeding groans included the sever will explode. --John Z. Delorean 16:42, 5 July 2006 (BST) 16:44, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  20. Kill - Let us lay off with the Observing Spam that doesn't matter anyway. --Karlsbad 17:39, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  21. Keep Screw Spraypainter Anonymity. HamsterNinja 17:41, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  22. Keep - I like this idea, and Spraypainting doesn't occur nearly as often as broadcasting or people speaking anyways, so the spam wuold be minimal. --Matthew Fahrenheit Talk 17:46, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  23. Spam - It's too bad that someone apparently spraypainted over your precious "official graffiti," but don't suggest things that would spam the screen just so that you can make sure that no one removes your "official graffiti." –Bob Hammero T•W!•P! 18:41, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  24. Keep - but only if the only message you can see is the current one (i.e. if you were logged out for 12 hours, and since you left there was a spraypainting 5 hours ago and 1 hour ago, you should only be able to see the last spraypainting message) Ybbor 19:22, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  25. Keep - Surprised this didn't already happen. --Otware 20:24, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  26. Keep -If somebody spraypainted your house while you were right next to them, Cheances are you would see them at it.--Labine50 MHG|MalTel 21:04, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  27. Keep - Although this would be detremental to me, I can't deny that it should be done. --Rozozag 21:05, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  28. Kill - I like the current feel of graffiti. It's sort of done hidden from the masse's eyes. A bit like in RL. --McArrowni 23:45, 5 July 2006 (BST)
  29. Keep Whoever thinks this is spam is a total hater... It would help to identify spies who you think are in your group, but you see them spraypaint propaganda for another group on the wall... --Sgt. 20m813 (MPD) 01:10, 6 July 2006 (BST)
  30. Spam - Are you sure your not related to President Bush??? I evoke my right to privacy. and lol "Official Tags", who made you God? I don't care if you are some "group" working in "some suburb". If you guys didn't have the Free Runners, you'd never hold what you have. --Steel Hammer 02:15, 6 July 2006 (BST)
  31. Spam - I could understand if tagging was like the radio. But it isn't.--Pesatyel 03:15, 6 July 2006 (BST)
  32. Keep You can see people talk on the radio. Why not this? --Jon Pyre 03:25, 6 July 2006 (BST)
  33. Keep A vote of "keep" doesn't automatically mean that we're all for the Protection of Official Graffiti, people. It just means we want to know when people are spraypainting. --Kenny Matthews 03:37, 6 July 2006 (BST)
  34. Keep - This suggestion makes sense, even if some of the author's reasoning does not. --Jimbo Bob ASS•U! 05:43, 6 July 2006 (BST)
  35. Kill - Because you should have linked to Spraypainter instead (and for reasons above). - Jedaz 06:59, 6 July 2006 (BST)
  36. Spam - Get the heck out of here, you nerd!! - November7 13:23, 7 July 2006 (BST)
  37. Keep - If only because it will let me viciously kill anyone who paints one of those stupid streets is watching things. --Paradox244 20:18, 7 July 2006 (BST)
  38. Kill - annonymity is an intuitively "natural" quality for grafitti, certainly more than the idea of sacrosanct so called officiall grafitti. And unlike attacks, it directly harms no-one. Unlike using the radio, it does not primarily depend on being heard (I can do things out of your line of sight). I think it is very believable within context of game to assume to assume those spraying tags are doing so sneakily/after making sure not directly observed --Ora Henry 08:58, 10 July 2006 (CST)
  39. Keep - should help deter graffiti spam --Kiltric 20:54, 14 July 2006 (BST)

Spraypaint attack

Removed by Author for suggestion being totally spammable. --Canuhearmenow 18:29, 5 July 2006 (BST)

  • Prepare for total rule Nazi-ism in 5, 4, 3, 2....Rule 12 at the top of the page states that: "Frequent removal of suggestions to avoid having them spaminated is considered abuse of the system." Please start running these things through the discussion page first, instead of testing them out on the actual voting page. It makes for less clutter. --Mookiemookie 19:16, 5 July 2006 (BST)
    • Good point Mookie. Canuhearmenow, I'll be watching. Cyberbob  Talk  19:17, 5 July 2006 (BST)
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