Talk:Ban In-Game Rape
The "I Don't Want To Edit The Whole Page" Heading
Hello, I saw your petition and I'm wondering what you all expect Kevan to do? If he removes the characters then they'll (the "text-rapists") just make a new one, if he puts on a text filter then they will find ways around it, if he bans their IP's they'll just use proxies. There is no viable way of preventing it and any action taken against the accounts by Kevan would only lead to the person making more accounts. I'm not saying it's right, but I don't see any viable solutions to prevent it. - Dark PhantomTalk 06:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
The best way would be to get a simple Terms of service to keep this from destroying the game. Ozzel
- Ok, I can see where you are getting at, but that means that someone would have to enforce it. That (presumably people speak once a day) would mean that someone would have to look through roughly 40,000 lines of text just to see if people are saying inappropriate things, and I doubt Kevan would want to give up his time just for that. I just cannot see a practical way of actually stopping people from saying inappropriate things unless you had a large team to sort through all of that text, and I doubt thats going to happen because people can use that privilege to gather information for their own benefit. - Dark PhantomTalk 06:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Typically TOS agreements aren't enforced by complete and total monitoring. Do you think there's someone at InvisionFree who reads every post on every board ever just to ensure that nobody is violating the TOS? Do you think that someone for EVERY OTHER ONLINE GAME, FORUM, OR OTHER MASS-SERVICE EVER MADE is monitoring EVERYTHING on it to enforce the TOS? No! The TOS comes into play when people REPORT PROBLEMS. For example, say that this had been in place before this whole ordeal. Someone performs one of these 'in-game rapes.' Someone e-mails Kevan. Kevan is then able to take LEGAL ACTION against the offender in the form of a lawsuit or other such act. (Probably through IP-tracing and also tracking the player's metagame activity.) The TOS agreement here would only come into play once people report it, and don't actually require Kevan or anyone to monitor the entire game.--Craer 07:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- There are some sites which monitor everything, but thats besides the point. As soon as you allow people to report he'll get a flood of E-mails saying that someone called them an idiot and other such things. Also I doubt Kevan would want to spend the time or money suing someone on the other side of the world just because they said something sexually themed. I feel that it's just going to be a waste of time for everyone involved and that you should just ignore it. PK the person a few times if you must, but for a small game like this nothing is going to happen because there is no feasible way of stopping it, even with a legal avenue. - Dark PhantomTalk 07:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- ?!Lets enforce our argument by typing certain words in CAPITAL LETTERS! Or he could just put up a disclaimer stating that this is in fact an adult game based on an adult genre. This is a roleplaying game, and it's not at the same time. Yes, rape is a bad thing, but you can't expect a game creator to keep logs on 513,519 characters. Because thats what he would have to do in order to be able to track people and what they are doing at any given moment. It's not efficient, and proof can be faked. Tracking the players' metagaming activity? Are you serious? I'm sorry, I want my internet free of Big Brother. I don't need no pencil necked geek, forging fake screen shots of something to which a self-enforced internet Nazi with a badge can see what I'm doing elsewhere. As Cyberbob would say.. "No"... I'm sure there is something Stroth would say to... but ... It's slipping my mind at the moment.--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS
LOE ZHU | Яezzens 07:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Seeing as the average age in this game is mid-teens and up, the possibility of these text attacks being directed to someone is underage does makes the matter a legal issue inside the United States, Great Britain, and other countries with similar laws that are designed to protect minors from the lewd acts of adults, even if those acts is merely a text description of rape. The TOS would help protect Kevan from overzealous lawyers and parents -- think about it, if Kevan is sued, he'd be probably be forced to shut down Urban Dead "for the sake of The Children" which I doubt is something any one of us would like at at all. And if my simply clicking a little check box for a TOS helps keep Kevan from being threatened with legal actions for something some attention-seeking idiot has done, then I'm all for it. If you don't believe me, if you're familiar with the site Fanfiction.Net, then you'll recall that it was sued by a group of parents because of their little "darlings" getting around the age screener to keep them out of the Mature-rated fiction and was caught; the result was that all Mature fiction was to be removed or edited down to something "more acceptable". Karen Howard 07:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Okay, miss, let's set this straight, here. This is a game. not real life. Do not compare the two. The difference is monumental and your example is once against subjective. Anyone who sues Kevan for this crap is a bona fide moron. But, you are alas correct. A terms of service may actually not be a bad idea on second thought. If only to protect him from further idiocy. I'm familiar with fanfiction.net Familiar enough not to visit because of all of the smut and such that was on there because some people like to dementedly play with anime and cartoon characters in perverted ways never meant by the creators... It's enough to burn someone's eye out. However, seeing this petition has pretty much brought up the idea of possibly suing Kevan for anything that goes on in this game. I wish people would learn not to be retarded. I'm moving to the motion he or someone else should draw up a terms of service, because I don't want to see Urban Dead shut down by some idiot. That doesn't mean I support your cause in hunting down this retard who's text-raping or whatever you're calling it. I still think it's silly for you to make such a huge deal out of it.--Eremes 11:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- There was talk concerning the legal matters of this situation a long time before there was ever a petition here on the Brainstock forums to drive home how serious the issue is for Kevan; I'd never sue Kevan and I doubt anyone who loves Urban Dead would, but the sue-happy parents out there who are too lax to put preventative filters on the child's computer likely would sue. And just because it's taking place in a game does not make these text-attacks alright, especially not when minors are playing; when those text-attacks are leveled against a minor, it becomes a crime called "Lewd acts against a minor". I wouldn't mind seeing the player behind the attacks banned but what is more important is the creation of a disclaimer and TOS to protect Kevan from the sue-happy idiots out there who look for the slightest thing to take offense for. Karen Howard 12:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Okay, miss, let's set this straight, here. This is a game. not real life. Do not compare the two. The difference is monumental and your example is once against subjective. Anyone who sues Kevan for this crap is a bona fide moron. But, you are alas correct. A terms of service may actually not be a bad idea on second thought. If only to protect him from further idiocy. I'm familiar with fanfiction.net Familiar enough not to visit because of all of the smut and such that was on there because some people like to dementedly play with anime and cartoon characters in perverted ways never meant by the creators... It's enough to burn someone's eye out. However, seeing this petition has pretty much brought up the idea of possibly suing Kevan for anything that goes on in this game. I wish people would learn not to be retarded. I'm moving to the motion he or someone else should draw up a terms of service, because I don't want to see Urban Dead shut down by some idiot. That doesn't mean I support your cause in hunting down this retard who's text-raping or whatever you're calling it. I still think it's silly for you to make such a huge deal out of it.--Eremes 11:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Seeing as the average age in this game is mid-teens and up, the possibility of these text attacks being directed to someone is underage does makes the matter a legal issue inside the United States, Great Britain, and other countries with similar laws that are designed to protect minors from the lewd acts of adults, even if those acts is merely a text description of rape. The TOS would help protect Kevan from overzealous lawyers and parents -- think about it, if Kevan is sued, he'd be probably be forced to shut down Urban Dead "for the sake of The Children" which I doubt is something any one of us would like at at all. And if my simply clicking a little check box for a TOS helps keep Kevan from being threatened with legal actions for something some attention-seeking idiot has done, then I'm all for it. If you don't believe me, if you're familiar with the site Fanfiction.Net, then you'll recall that it was sued by a group of parents because of their little "darlings" getting around the age screener to keep them out of the Mature-rated fiction and was caught; the result was that all Mature fiction was to be removed or edited down to something "more acceptable". Karen Howard 07:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Typically TOS agreements aren't enforced by complete and total monitoring. Do you think there's someone at InvisionFree who reads every post on every board ever just to ensure that nobody is violating the TOS? Do you think that someone for EVERY OTHER ONLINE GAME, FORUM, OR OTHER MASS-SERVICE EVER MADE is monitoring EVERYTHING on it to enforce the TOS? No! The TOS comes into play when people REPORT PROBLEMS. For example, say that this had been in place before this whole ordeal. Someone performs one of these 'in-game rapes.' Someone e-mails Kevan. Kevan is then able to take LEGAL ACTION against the offender in the form of a lawsuit or other such act. (Probably through IP-tracing and also tracking the player's metagame activity.) The TOS agreement here would only come into play once people report it, and don't actually require Kevan or anyone to monitor the entire game.--Craer 07:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Or Keven might be required by some pencil pusher somewhere to install an AVS requiring the players to prove age of consent when creating a char.... Not agreeing, just saying. Conndrakamod TDHPD CFT 12:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Call me a dick, call me insensitive, or a pervert, or whatever, but I think this whole affair is downright hilarious. I'm glad something was done (ie, an ignore option added for those people who are repulsed by what is, admittedly, repulsive RP), but to be quite honest, I think this is fantastic. I'd have been sad if these people had been banned, with the exception of perhaps Cuit, who is doing it with an out-of-game motive to upset someone. What they're doing, intentionally or otherwise, is, to my understanding, perfectly in character. The city of Malton has fallen apart. People are free to do, largely, whatever they damn well please. Looting is rampant, as are murders, people are picking up whatever skills they can to get by, enforcing their own beliefs and perceived rights through force, and generally doing whatever they feel they can get away with or is worth the risk. You have to figure that, in such a situation, there -would- be people who are going to take advantage of the situation in a sexual manner. Be they rape fetishists, sickos who think the whole zombie outbreak is some sort of aphrodasiac, or just guys who are really friggin' strong, but can't talk to women and haven't been laid in months or years, etc. The idea of RPing the rape of someone in game had never occurred to me, but I, personally, give my wholehearted support to the idea of it being possible, if not exactly to the rapists itself (that crap is never "ok"). - RosutoEnzeru
Suggestions
First, change the Front page of this to a tilde signature...it will have a little more influence.
Second, to those who don't think much will come of this...
The Antics are a violation of the TOS, and if Kevan doesn't do "something" then he "could" be considered negelegent on the issue. Here in the States we have had a major commupance on issues related to child endangerment on the internet (and guess what? the parents are not the ones found responsible) And here in my home state, our Govenor elect is a former Attourney General who made his bones by going after bank fraud and international predators. It would only take 1 holier than thou, inatentive parent to see the wrong thing leading to somebody in authority calling (i.e. threatening) the Host which in turn would roll back down hill onto the game...
I don't know about you but I kinda like this game. It's ridiculous the measures thats having to be taken by some gaming sites(even free ones, ask RPOL.Net's sysop) but it is a real issue. Conndrakamod TDHPD CFT 12:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Stupid
The guy who carries out these attacks is an attention whore. By throwing a fit like this you are validating his activities. If he had been ignored from the beginning he would have gotten bored with this. Congratulations on literally encouraging him to do this. This is a game for heavens sake, you should take what this probable 13 year old says with a grain of salt. This is a self fulfilling prophecy.--Gage 07:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- So, if I were to start blanking user pages, replacing them with 'Goatse' type pictures, just to gain attention, then warning and threatening to ban me would be 'egging me on' to continue to do so? It's a wiki for heaven's sake, you should take what I edit into places with a grain of salt.--Craer 07:20, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- That sir is a hyperbole. And yes, taunting vandal does encourage them. We have seen that repeatedly.--Gage 07:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I know the address of more than a few IP scramblers, I can create as many Hotmail accounts as I want, and the internet is laden with heavy and disgusting payloads of porn. Do not tempt me, sir, to redefine the word "Hyperbole" in your mental lexicon. Once again: Ignoring an issue does not make it go away, nor does it make it 'all better.' Furthermore, I would have to suggest that your own comment is purely a guess. Unless you are one of the ones perpetrating these crimes, I don't think you can say what these players would have done should they have been ignored, or that they did not find the act itself somehow enjoyable in some twisted perverted fashion. Furthermore: Hindsight is 20/20. Don't tell me that if someone in-game rapes you in the ass four times within 24 hours, your first thought will be "I should ignore him, so that he'll go away."--Craer 07:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I would laugh at him man, because I don't take things that are said in character that seriously. I would probably just emote that my ass hurts or something XD--Gage 07:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- What the hell, you guys think you fucking control the game? Seriously, grow a pair and deal with it. If you are offended by some stupid fucking "RAPE RAPE RAPE" messages, you don't belong on the internet. The internet is full of satire, jokes, and a whole crock of shit that is just for shits and giggles, and you guys are getting your panties in a bunch because you take the internet seriously. The internet is not meant to be taken seriously, and as stated, if you take this crap to offense, you DON'T. BELONG. ON. THE. INTERNET. --Absolution 09:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'm with these guys, it's text and if you get offended by that on a game the don't play it. You're sitting on the internet complaining about people typing a few messages about rape when you can access all kinds of illegal things on the internet. Get your priorities right, these people are sick, don't get me wrong, but you can't do and damn thing. Pillsy FT 09:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- When such a message, which is very graphic in nature and is directed against someone who is underage in certain counties -- such as the United States and Great Britain, which is where Kevan resides -- it is considered a crime and Kevan can be held accountable for the actions of such an attention-seeking simpleton. That means he can be sued for every penny to his name and being forced to shut down Urban Dead; it is for his protection as well as the protection of those who are under the age of consent that these players would like this idiot and those like him to be banned. Karen Howard 09:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Sounds to me like this whole page was made from an attention-seeking simpleton. See, what would happen if Kevan had to check on people is he would be WAY TOO BUSY keeping the game's content under control (Which ain't happening, probably), and therefore, there will be hardly any updates if any at all. If I were Kevan, I'd rather shut down UD than start censoring people and thus pissing off my community. Now, a solution I would suggest is a disclaimer, saying that content can change at any time, but as far as making it a bannable offense for just saying stupid shit? No. Just. No. The way you come off, it sounds like you came from the ESRB. Well guess what, there ain't no ESRB here, my friend. --Absolution 09:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I think a lot of the Urban Dead community would be glad not to put up with the antics of these idiots who get their jollies harassing players with female characters. And I'm not ESRB -- I just happened to have taken some legal classes that are required for my Bachelor's Degree. I know how much trouble the actions of the player who has Nekro Tex and those like him can put an innocent man like Kevan in. Its not just the forcible shut down of Urban Dead or even being sued at stake -- Kevan can possibly be if there is enough of an uproar from the sue-happy parents of whatever minor(s) are attacked; Judges here in the States -- I am uncertain about the Judges in Great Britain -- are elected and most are conscious about their public image and taking the case to extremes for the sake of good publicity wouldn't be beyond several of them, even if that includes making an innocent, good man like Kevan penniless and putting him in prison or on probation, which will have a negative impact on his chances for getting employment, loans, ect. I agree with a disclaimer. I agree with a TOS. And I say that Nekro Tex and those like him should be made an example of and banned so people get the idea that such antics are not a good idea. PKing, GKing, RKing wouldn't be bannable offenses because that's part of the game since there are no non-playable characters and such a thing done on-line aren't crimes; what Nekro Tex has done, if done against someone underage, is a crime and should be punished -- but Kevan shouldn't have to be held accountable for it and by banning Nekro tex and those like him along with putting up a disclaimer and enacting a TOS to play will make a statement that he won't tolerate it happening in his creation. Karen Howard 10:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- You can scream crime all you want here. It really means nothing, actually. I'm sorry, but in a world where telling age difference is pretty much impossible, to try and demand that Kevan actively seek and attempt to ban these individuals is just plain useless, ignorant, and downright whiny. I have many reasons for saying this, the most-prominent of them being that the best he would be able to accomplish is a simple IP ban or character deletion. As mentioned previously, it's not difficult to use a proxy or IP scrambler and it's certainly not difficult to create a new character. your demands are pretty fruitless here. It would slow them down for maybe ten or fifteen minutes. You say you want to punish them, but I doubt they care. If they're doing this, then chances are they don't care about the game anymore, have a very lonely life and have never seen any action outside of the friction produced by their own hand, or are just one of those immature people you can meet any day of the week in the real world. You can pray they don't know their way around banning, but that's about it. To desire to sue Kevan over your own selfish goals and crap is downright moronic and totally disrespectful. You want to ruin the game for everyone else just because you're either too stubborn or too slow to move to another suburb many times further away and making sure that this person won't find you. Yes, it will probably be a continued problem, but with the resources available on the internet, there is nothing Kevan can do. It is quite probable that this person is just an underage jerk trying to get kicks on an internet game. You taking it so seriously has brought you to the same level. You've given this person the attention they were looking for. As for a disclaimer. Nobody reads those. It would be a total waste of time, a lot of which Kevan doesn't seem to have to type up such a ridiculous thing. As for banning and character deletion, it won't do anything to deter this person's actions any. I'm sorry, but this whole petition you got going is pointless. Not only that, but nobody takes an internet petition seriously... Just move from the suburb in which this person is harassing you, somewhere random, and be done with it. you can't police the world and you certainly can't police the internet. It may be illegal in some cases, but sometimes it's just beyond anyone's control. --Eremes 10:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not the one out to sue him but there are people who will, people who will do it just for the publicity to make themselves look good and to get as much money as possible. Just take a good look at sites around the Internet and you will see plenty of evidence that this is true -- people will sue over the slightest thing, especially if concerns minors, sex, or even believed discrimination against religion and ethnicity. I advise a disclaimer and TOS because it'll help keep Kevan safe from those sort of people while banning Nekro Tex and his ilk are examples of his authority and intolerance for someone messing with his creation in such a manner. And if you think they cannot trace the person who plays Nekro Tex, then you're mistaken -- there are divisions in the FBI and other organizations that only go after people who use the Internet for child porn and to commit lewd acts against minors. And they can and do track those individuals and put them in jail; with a great deal of people who play this game in their mid-teens, don't think they won't get involved if enough parents and lawyers make a loud enough uproar. And I hate to tell you but what you happen to be suggesting, just leaving a suburb -- an action called appeasement -- doesn't work, it never works; would you suggest people move out of a city because there's a serial rapist loose or let people who know how to stop him and arrest him do their jobs? Karen Howard 11:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Here's a helpful educational video made specially for people like you, Karen. Enjoy, and learn! Cyberbob Talk 11:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Karen, please do not get me wrong when I state my opinion. I have had many victims of sexual assault come to talk to me about their experiences for help. Indeed, I myself was the victim of sexual harassment by peers and attempted molestation by my own father when I was young. So believe me when I can say that I could understand where you and everyone else are coming from. I would agree that Kevan should have some sort of Terms of Service. If nothing more it should notify a would-be user of the contents within the website are. This is how so many pornographic websites are allowed to function with rather few law suits. After all, if 90% of children between the ages of 8-16 have viewed porn, largely while doing homework, (http://www.familysafemedia.com/pornography_statistics.html) we would expect online pornographic sites to have gone under a while ago if they had any sort of legal liability. What they have on their front pages could be deemed far worse then what is in this game here depending on what sites you have seen.
- I'm not the one out to sue him but there are people who will, people who will do it just for the publicity to make themselves look good and to get as much money as possible. Just take a good look at sites around the Internet and you will see plenty of evidence that this is true -- people will sue over the slightest thing, especially if concerns minors, sex, or even believed discrimination against religion and ethnicity. I advise a disclaimer and TOS because it'll help keep Kevan safe from those sort of people while banning Nekro Tex and his ilk are examples of his authority and intolerance for someone messing with his creation in such a manner. And if you think they cannot trace the person who plays Nekro Tex, then you're mistaken -- there are divisions in the FBI and other organizations that only go after people who use the Internet for child porn and to commit lewd acts against minors. And they can and do track those individuals and put them in jail; with a great deal of people who play this game in their mid-teens, don't think they won't get involved if enough parents and lawyers make a loud enough uproar. And I hate to tell you but what you happen to be suggesting, just leaving a suburb -- an action called appeasement -- doesn't work, it never works; would you suggest people move out of a city because there's a serial rapist loose or let people who know how to stop him and arrest him do their jobs? Karen Howard 11:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- You can scream crime all you want here. It really means nothing, actually. I'm sorry, but in a world where telling age difference is pretty much impossible, to try and demand that Kevan actively seek and attempt to ban these individuals is just plain useless, ignorant, and downright whiny. I have many reasons for saying this, the most-prominent of them being that the best he would be able to accomplish is a simple IP ban or character deletion. As mentioned previously, it's not difficult to use a proxy or IP scrambler and it's certainly not difficult to create a new character. your demands are pretty fruitless here. It would slow them down for maybe ten or fifteen minutes. You say you want to punish them, but I doubt they care. If they're doing this, then chances are they don't care about the game anymore, have a very lonely life and have never seen any action outside of the friction produced by their own hand, or are just one of those immature people you can meet any day of the week in the real world. You can pray they don't know their way around banning, but that's about it. To desire to sue Kevan over your own selfish goals and crap is downright moronic and totally disrespectful. You want to ruin the game for everyone else just because you're either too stubborn or too slow to move to another suburb many times further away and making sure that this person won't find you. Yes, it will probably be a continued problem, but with the resources available on the internet, there is nothing Kevan can do. It is quite probable that this person is just an underage jerk trying to get kicks on an internet game. You taking it so seriously has brought you to the same level. You've given this person the attention they were looking for. As for a disclaimer. Nobody reads those. It would be a total waste of time, a lot of which Kevan doesn't seem to have to type up such a ridiculous thing. As for banning and character deletion, it won't do anything to deter this person's actions any. I'm sorry, but this whole petition you got going is pointless. Not only that, but nobody takes an internet petition seriously... Just move from the suburb in which this person is harassing you, somewhere random, and be done with it. you can't police the world and you certainly can't police the internet. It may be illegal in some cases, but sometimes it's just beyond anyone's control. --Eremes 10:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I think a lot of the Urban Dead community would be glad not to put up with the antics of these idiots who get their jollies harassing players with female characters. And I'm not ESRB -- I just happened to have taken some legal classes that are required for my Bachelor's Degree. I know how much trouble the actions of the player who has Nekro Tex and those like him can put an innocent man like Kevan in. Its not just the forcible shut down of Urban Dead or even being sued at stake -- Kevan can possibly be if there is enough of an uproar from the sue-happy parents of whatever minor(s) are attacked; Judges here in the States -- I am uncertain about the Judges in Great Britain -- are elected and most are conscious about their public image and taking the case to extremes for the sake of good publicity wouldn't be beyond several of them, even if that includes making an innocent, good man like Kevan penniless and putting him in prison or on probation, which will have a negative impact on his chances for getting employment, loans, ect. I agree with a disclaimer. I agree with a TOS. And I say that Nekro Tex and those like him should be made an example of and banned so people get the idea that such antics are not a good idea. PKing, GKing, RKing wouldn't be bannable offenses because that's part of the game since there are no non-playable characters and such a thing done on-line aren't crimes; what Nekro Tex has done, if done against someone underage, is a crime and should be punished -- but Kevan shouldn't have to be held accountable for it and by banning Nekro tex and those like him along with putting up a disclaimer and enacting a TOS to play will make a statement that he won't tolerate it happening in his creation. Karen Howard 10:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Sounds to me like this whole page was made from an attention-seeking simpleton. See, what would happen if Kevan had to check on people is he would be WAY TOO BUSY keeping the game's content under control (Which ain't happening, probably), and therefore, there will be hardly any updates if any at all. If I were Kevan, I'd rather shut down UD than start censoring people and thus pissing off my community. Now, a solution I would suggest is a disclaimer, saying that content can change at any time, but as far as making it a bannable offense for just saying stupid shit? No. Just. No. The way you come off, it sounds like you came from the ESRB. Well guess what, there ain't no ESRB here, my friend. --Absolution 09:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- When such a message, which is very graphic in nature and is directed against someone who is underage in certain counties -- such as the United States and Great Britain, which is where Kevan resides -- it is considered a crime and Kevan can be held accountable for the actions of such an attention-seeking simpleton. That means he can be sued for every penny to his name and being forced to shut down Urban Dead; it is for his protection as well as the protection of those who are under the age of consent that these players would like this idiot and those like him to be banned. Karen Howard 09:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'm with these guys, it's text and if you get offended by that on a game the don't play it. You're sitting on the internet complaining about people typing a few messages about rape when you can access all kinds of illegal things on the internet. Get your priorities right, these people are sick, don't get me wrong, but you can't do and damn thing. Pillsy FT 09:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I know the address of more than a few IP scramblers, I can create as many Hotmail accounts as I want, and the internet is laden with heavy and disgusting payloads of porn. Do not tempt me, sir, to redefine the word "Hyperbole" in your mental lexicon. Once again: Ignoring an issue does not make it go away, nor does it make it 'all better.' Furthermore, I would have to suggest that your own comment is purely a guess. Unless you are one of the ones perpetrating these crimes, I don't think you can say what these players would have done should they have been ignored, or that they did not find the act itself somehow enjoyable in some twisted perverted fashion. Furthermore: Hindsight is 20/20. Don't tell me that if someone in-game rapes you in the ass four times within 24 hours, your first thought will be "I should ignore him, so that he'll go away."--Craer 07:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- That sir is a hyperbole. And yes, taunting vandal does encourage them. We have seen that repeatedly.--Gage 07:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Alright, maybe take it one step further and have some sort of age safeguard. The question though would be what kind. Kids can take credit cards and fine bank account numbers. I recall a news story recently about online gambling where a kid took his parents credit cards to get on a gambling website and spent several hundred bucks. I knew someone who once put in a random credit card number for a phone sex thing and got through, though they hung up before anyone had the chance to pick up the phone for the actual talk. With parental neglect one could always blame the websites or the phone services. The real issue however is not them but the parents themselves. Sadly our society is so full of ignoramuses that people don’t see it this way. A website could have all of the security in the world yet kids still get in. Perhaps Kevan could try and arrange for the owner of internet service accounts to receive e-mails regarding his game so that they are aware someone registered for it? Indeed, the second part of the IP number has their name, location and service provider should I recall correctly. Notifying the owner of the account with a grace period where the registered account can not do anything yet should allow them ample time to respond and determine if it is acceptable. I don’t think this is practical for a few reasons but perhaps it will get people to think more in other ways.
- The question of killing or “sexually assaulting” them in the game are two very different issues. One can talk about killing someone in the most brutal of ways then do it in the game but one can’t actually sexually assault them. Indeed it very well may be a crime to do so to a minor but the question is if reality moves into fantasy land as remember, this game isn’t necessarily real world like. We don’t have zombies in existence let alone their over running a moderate sized city with an endless supply of resources and no need to eat or drink anything. We do however require the exact phrasing of the laws concerned, which you brought up, in order to determine just what is illegal and what is necessary in order to avoid Kevan being held responsible for it. Provide us with bill names and numbers with sources and I’ll look up judgments. I wouldn’t find it so hard to believe that such bills exist but I do find it hard to believe that websites are liable to such an extreme degree as you seem to indicate or one could say every website, every game needs a ToS and guards to prevent children from entering them. For what’s stopping people from messaging kids on myspace, AIM, Yahoo, ICQ, and elsewhere doing the same thing to them there. After all, kids do have accounts for those sites and services. Every site would be liable from what you say regardless of the steps taken as people would still get through the system and no matter the action taken against the users lawsuits could still erupt over it. I find this wholly unbelievable and will not accept it without some kind of support behind you.
- Kevan doesn’t need a statement that he won’t accept it but that it happens and he is staying out of how people role-play so if you register you do so at your own risk. Just be ever more careful with what information you give out.
- As for those saying that Kevan can’t actually do anything beyond a ban where someone could get around and create a new character, ever heard of reporting someone to their ISP in order to remove their internet access? Such things could be achieved if one wished. The only question is of if it’s worth it or not.
- Moving on rape is assumed to be a part of the game. It’s a part of the human group conflict resulting from a catastrophe which tears apart a city and there is no government. It’s merely taking on another aspect of it beyond the death to the more personal issues – subjugation. There are more ways to subjugate people then just killing them, driving fear into their hearts by wounding them to such degrees. Likewise it can also be a motivator for resistance. Look at the uprising in Britain during the Roman occupation. The daughters both being raped leading the mother to lead a spectacular revolt.
- I had much more typed out but in the middle of typing this I had a system dump. So excuse any statements lacking clarifications, expansions on ideas or untouched ideas. I can’t remember what else I was saying so I’m posting it as is. --- MetGreDKo 23:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm just going to quote a true event. There was two lawsuits against the Desensitized UD forum (NOT Resensitized), one because they were advocating rape, and one because a group of people were tagged as neo-nazis and gay people. Guess what? Both never made it out the door, and both were taken to multiple lawyers. If those never made it, what makes you think it's going to happen now? --Absolution 11:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Because now minors are either involved or alleged to be involved as the victims of lewd acts and that will make a difference. I've never met Kevan but from what I've heard about him, I respect him. I know he's a great guy and smart as hell to come up with such a wonderful creation as Urban Dead and that's why I'm begging him to put up a Disclaimer and a TOS because that'll help protect him from legal repercussions if this attention-seeking moron is stupid enough to do these text-attacks against a minor. Banning this idiot would be great too but if nothing else, just putting up disclaimers and a TOS would help so much to keep Kevan safe from sue-happy parents and lawyers wanting to get some publicity. Karen Howard 11:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
If you feel that strongly then you need to take this directly to Kevan. You can't just drum up a petition straight away as you are implying the he knows this is going on when it is very likley he does not. I suggest you email him first and express your concerns. Petitions are meant when something is known about but ignored. Pillsy FT 11:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I brought it to Kevan's attention.
And to quote Kevan himself on a similar issue...
"I've had one or two emails about this sort of thing; the game's mechanics make it fairly self-regulating, that anyone being offensive to other players will get turned into a mute, anonymous zombie before too long, and will probably have greater difficulty getting a revive. I don't really think it's useful to open the floodgate of deleting accounts if anyone claims to be offended by them - the most recent email asked for the deletion of an account because its user had said the single zero-context sentence of "[player name] is gay". --Kevan 14:14, 20 August 2006 (BST)"
--Absolution 11:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
This has to be one of the stupidest things I've seen crop up on the UDWiki. And that's saying something.--Jorm 11:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- No arguments here, Jorm. Please don't hold it against us - it's the work of a single person. >_< Cyberbob Talk 11:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
It's not often I agree with Absolution, but when he's right he's right. Seriously, it's a game about eating the living or blowing the heads off of zombies. It's an adult game. It has adult content. So use a little adult maturity and realize words on the internet aren't real. If kids play the game, so be it, but it's the parents job to monitor what their child is exposed to. And it's the parents job to instal a language filter. At most, Kevan should have a disclaimer. - David Malfisto 11:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- It's the parent's responsibility, like David said. Placing it on the game's creator is Thompson-grade crap. --Absolution 11:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, there are parents and lawyers who will, no matter how stupid it is -- something similar happened to a very popular website called Fanfiction.Net and it was forced to remove all it's mature-rated fiction or have edited to something more "acceptable" under fear of lawsuit and forced shutdown of their site because some uptight parents found out their kid was smart enough to get around their filters and the site's own preventive managers and was able to read about a fictional characters having sex. And that's a sad truth that there are parents out there who are too lazy to protect their kids and when something like that happens, they go overboard to supposedly "protect" their kids in order to make up for their own laxness. Karen Howard 11:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- It's the parent's responsibility, like David said. Placing it on the game's creator is Thompson-grade crap. --Absolution 11:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Well if the whole purpose of this thing is to protect kevan's assets, then let it go. UD has survived this long with no lawsuits, I doubt it'll get any more lawsuits. And if they do arise, Kevan will deal with them accordingly. As for what he said, he gave you sensitive people the okay to kick these people's asses as a way to get rid of them. Use that. --Absolution 12:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Seriously. Not only would it be a huge waste of server to try and filter every would-be insult, but it's a waste of Kevan's time as well. People are going to do this, it happens. If you really have a problem with it, then you can take your shotgun, put it to your shoulder, and blow the offending user's head off. It's more than a little hard to sexually harass people in death rattle by any means other than "Banana gangbang!"--Grigori 22:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
The "Look at me, my view is so important" heading
Krevan has responded to this. He's not going to do anything. This page (and the counter page: Don't Ban In Game Rape) are up for deletion.
Seeing as nothing useful can be added to this page, but that Krevan wants to keep this page to demonstrate what the offical response is, I suggest that the "Don't Ban Rape" page is merged into this one, and that this page is then locked against further edits. - David Malfisto 14:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps we can reappropriate it to be somewhere where people express their distaste of such acts? To me, that would be effective in the sense that it would allow the community at large to say, "Hey, we don't agree with this." That's essentially why I signed the petition--I knew that it was extremely unlikely that anything would happen, but I wanted to chime in and say that I didn't agree. Does that make sense? ~
u t STARS
- Perhaps we can reappropriate it to be somewhere where people express their distaste of such acts? To me, that would be effective in the sense that it would allow the community at large to say, "Hey, we don't agree with this." That's essentially why I signed the petition--I knew that it was extremely unlikely that anything would happen, but I wanted to chime in and say that I didn't agree. Does that make sense? ~
Are you guys serious?
Let me sum up my opinion of this entire discussion.
- Someone is way too high-strung. Lay off the coffee, or switch to decaf.
- I think you all need a serious dose of reality. This is a game. Nothing more.
- Text rape is nowhere near the problem that real rape is.
- No one will ever be sued for typing descriptions of rape into a game with over 500,000 registered users.
 |
You Gonna Get Raped |
| This user or group is gonna get raped. |
- how could soo much stupidity be in one place....
--Blue Command Vic DvB 18:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Not bad, Blue Command Vic.
- let me contribute something
 |
Rape Me |
| What??? It's the title of a song. |
--Trenchcoat 22:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Self-Contradictory
On one hand, I want this idiot banned, On the other hand, I agree with others that this is stupid and banning him will egg him on. I really want to see him banned though...But that might make the problem worse. I don't know what to do at this point. Yes, I did just waste your time.--Labine50 MH|ME|P 14:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Great Move Forward
Kevan,
By adding ignore capabilities with today's new game features you have taken a great stride in helping folks to alleviate some of the stress associated with this problem. You have provided a simple solution that transcends this particular issue while adding a convenience to everyone. I just wanted to say Thank You. --Max Grivas JG / M.F.T. 16:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
- Well said... but I'm fairly sure he'd be more likely to see it if it was on his talk page. Cyberbob Talk 16:44, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
- No, I've been following this talk page. Thanks for comment, I hope the functionality does some good. --Kevan 17:58, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
- I agree best solution for all involved BubbaBuoy 17:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Yet people are still signing and whining EVEN THOUGH KEVAN GAVE AN OFFICIAL RESPONSE AND ADDRESSED THE PROBLEM. --Absolution 10:15, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- Since there is no "Sundown" provision on the page, and the Deletions vote is firmly in the "keep" I would expect this to be a semi-permanant page with people signing as they see fit, with more and more people stating their support of the issue. Conndrakamod TDHPD CFT 10:23, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- Since it was "to alert Kevan to our deep concern", I assume they feel it's done it's job now, but I'll leave it to one of the original posters to update things. --Kevan 11:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'll update and reformat the page this (EST) evening. And Kevan - thank you, thank you, thank you. -- Raharu 17:07 24 November 2006 (GMT)
- Thanks, but "all subsequent signatures below will be understood as expressing a concern about in-game rape and support for measures against it" is a bit flimsy - I imagine 99.9% of the game's players abstractly disapprove of in-game rape and would support measures against it, so long as they didn't cause a problem for innocent players. Discussion and suggestion on this talk page might lead to further changes (I'm currently working on some terms of usage), but a list of a few dozen extra characters who agree that rape is a bad thing really isn't very insightful or helpful. --Kevan 19:33, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- Indeed; changed it to a solicitation for constructive suggestions. Thanks. -- Raharu 23:24 24 November 2006 (GMT)
- Thanks, but "all subsequent signatures below will be understood as expressing a concern about in-game rape and support for measures against it" is a bit flimsy - I imagine 99.9% of the game's players abstractly disapprove of in-game rape and would support measures against it, so long as they didn't cause a problem for innocent players. Discussion and suggestion on this talk page might lead to further changes (I'm currently working on some terms of usage), but a list of a few dozen extra characters who agree that rape is a bad thing really isn't very insightful or helpful. --Kevan 19:33, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'll update and reformat the page this (EST) evening. And Kevan - thank you, thank you, thank you. -- Raharu 17:07 24 November 2006 (GMT)
- Since it was "to alert Kevan to our deep concern", I assume they feel it's done it's job now, but I'll leave it to one of the original posters to update things. --Kevan 11:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Totally defeated, I think
I think UD may be covered by this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/21/he_said_she_said_ok_online/
If so, Kevan is no longer responsible. --Absolution 21:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
- I sincerely hope so, Absolution, because the thought of an innocent party getting into trouble because of some attention-seeking idiot really bothers me. Still, a Disclaimer and TOS will be on the safe side, I think. Better paranoid then sued... Karen Howard 01:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, if Kevan DID put up a TOS, he may be LESS protected. See, if you filter the kind of content that goes on your web site, in the US, you're actually less protected than if you do no filtering at all. This is the most recent news story I've found for it, but, as a Canadian law student, I have some USA internet law experience, and a vested interest in the precedents set thereon. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/16/roommates_discrimination_suit/ So, just a thought. Lookit the link. Jerith 13:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Safe Space Pledge
I think it's a shame that someone's honorable efforts are shot down by so many without much thought of organizing alternative means to the same end. As far as I'm concerned, in-game rape and other more egregious acts of sexism and racism should be universally condemned as equal to the worst kinds of zerging or other cheating, or griefing. There are also efforts like the Safe Space Pledge, which was largely stalled thanks to the lack of a template (which is beyond my skills). --Luigi Galleani M(A)C | M(A)F 22:09, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- That "safe-space pledge" looks like a fancy way to say "We hate racism." You know what I hate about so-called "Anti-racists"? They're complete hypocrites. Don't get me wrong. Racism is a bad thing. But let me pose a hypothetical. Let's say a man (who happens to be African-American) says "I'm proud to be black." You wouldn't have any problem with it, would you? Now, let's pretend this same hypothetical man is an Anglo-American, and the phrase he utters is "I'm proud to be white." Oh no, here come the lawsuits. The accusations fly. Racist! Nazi! Klan member! It's a complete clusterfuck when a white man proclaims pride in his race, but when a person of color does so, he's revered. I quote from Wikipedia: "As a militant leader, Malcolm X advocated black pride, economic self-reliance, and identity politics. He ultimately rose to become a world-renowned African American/Pan-Africanist and human rights activist." Racial pride, self-reliance, and identity politics (which is the belief that a people should have a nation of their own, with it's own government, in layman's terms.) Now, Adolf Hitler believed in much the same things, albeit a different race. The perception of the two in today's culture is vastly different, however. It's all a matter of your viewpoint. I was raised in a town of less than 10,000 people, in northeastern Ohio. Now, this town was approximately 99% white. As a matter of fact, in the whole time I lived there (from 4th grade through high school), I knew of only one black family in the entire area. Some of the houses near downtown still had clauses in their leases that restricted "colored" families from living there. It's safe to say that I was exposed to racism. I played football with the son of that one black family, and he was a great linebacker. The only problem? The coach put him at running back without ever consulting with him. He had become so ingrained with his "black people are fast" mentality, that he automatically assumed Rashaad would be great at tailback. The kid finally got to play defense, but it took the JV coaches to convince the head coach that he could play. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that while racism is a horrible thing, it's not the worst thing that could happen in this world, and if you're going to crack down on it, make sure you crack down on all forms, not just bigotry by whites. But hey, that's just my two cents.--_Vic D'Amato__Dead vs Blue_ 06:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
- You and I come from different analyses of the way the world works. I have been exposed to racism against me as a person of colour. But more to the point, I see racism as structural and power-based. Racism isn't about pre-existing races being prejudiced against each other. It is about a system of races created by white scientists and clerics during colonialism to justify chattel slavery and genocide and systemic discrimination and exploitation that continues today. And while I respect your comments as thoughtful and respectful, I get really sick of the "anti-racists are hypocrites" claim. Finally, I should note that the Safe Space Pledge is not in the least an exclusively anti-racist effort. It was constructed around all of the issues mentioned. --Luigi Galleani M(A)C | M(A)F 16:44, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
