User talk:The Rooster/Archive/2008

2008 ARCHIVE

Oldest posts, at the time of original message, are at the top.

Subheadings have be added to some of the longer conversations, that did not always exist before archiving.

Welcome

Welcome aboard

Greetings to the wiki. Let us know if you need any help.

You want the whole Whats a wiki and how do i edit it thing or are you alright. anyway. If you need a hand im more than willing to help. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:01, 6 May 2008 (BST)

I'm reasonably informed enough that I should manage to not go deleting everything. Though if I do run into problems, I'll ask for help then. - The Rooster 18:20, 6 May 2008 (BST)

A rooster, thanks for that, you are a wiki legend, yet ironically didnt sign your post on my page. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:24, 24 May 2008 (BST)

My sheer awesomeness needs no introduction. Joking aside, I'll just fix that... --  RoosterDragon  18:26, 24 May 2008 (BST)

SIM bot

Here's the 81 pages that would need updating:

SIM:16,16, SIM:16,27, SIM:16,38, SIM:16,49, SIM:16,5, SIM:16,60, SIM:16,71, SIM:16,82, SIM:16,93, SIM:27,16, SIM:27,27, SIM:27,38, SIM:27,49, SIM:27,5, SIM:27,60, SIM:27,71, SIM:27,82, SIM:27,93, SIM:38,16, SIM:38,27, SIM:38,38, SIM:38,49, SIM:38,5, SIM:38,60, SIM:38,71, SIM:38,82, SIM:38,93, SIM:49,16, SIM:49,27, SIM:49,38, SIM:49,49, SIM:49,5, SIM:49,60, SIM:49,71, SIM:49,82, SIM:49,93, SIM:5,16, SIM:5,27, SIM:5,38, SIM:5,49, SIM:5,5, SIM:5,60, SIM:5,71, SIM:5,82, SIM:5,93, SIM:60,16, SIM:60,27, SIM:60,38, SIM:60,49, SIM:60,5, SIM:60,60, SIM:60,71, SIM:60,82, SIM:60,93, SIM:71,16, SIM:71,27, SIM:71,38, SIM:71,49, SIM:71,5, SIM:71,60, SIM:71,71, SIM:71,82, SIM:71,93, SIM:82,16, SIM:82,27, SIM:82,38, SIM:82,49, SIM:82,5, SIM:82,60, SIM:82,71, SIM:82,82, SIM:82,93, SIM:93,16, SIM:93,27, SIM:93,38, SIM:93,49, SIM:93,5, SIM:93,60, SIM:93,71, SIM:93,82, SIM:93,93

The pages all start (at the very top of the file) with code somewhat like this (sometimes with whitespace / line break variances) followed by information that never needs changing:

{{SIMpic
|image=Image:2008-5-6 scent map from 93-93.png
|page=SIM:93,93
|sig={{User:Swiers/Sig}} 06:13, 6 May 2008 (BST)
}}<noinclude>

Basically I need a bot to look at the |sig={{User:Swiers/Sig}} 06:13, 6 May 2008 (BST) bit (obviously there may be other sigs) and, if the timestamp is more than 7 days old, change the entire block above to as follows:

{{SIMpic
|image=Image:expired.png
|page={{subst:PAGENAME}}
|sig={{expired}}
}}<noinclude>

I've begun some work into recovering pages and altering them as nessessary. However, I've encountered several major problems with inconsistant formatting.

On 49,82 and 60,82 The user tag is signed as 'iPrep' but without the usual square bracket or curly brace. On 71,82 the user tag is 'iPrep', again without the usual code, then followed by your properly tagged signing. It's playing havoc with my code as it tries to identify where the timestamp actually starts.

I've worked around these specific cases for now, but if any other formatting variation occurs then the bot's not going to be able to perform updates on those pages. It won't update a page if it can't pull out the timestamp, but that is somewhat contradictory to its purpose.

It may be worthwhile to add some text on the example template that appears at the bottom of each page to reminds people that correct formatting is a must. The Rooster 21:47, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Hmm, the problem is, potentially anything COULD go in that sig area. I understand it SHOULD be a normal valid sig, but even those doesn't always have square brackets (mine don't). Why not just use a regular expression to pull out the timestamp? A match for

/(\d\d? [Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sep|Aug|Nov|Dec] 20\d\d)/ 

ought to cover it, right?  Swiers 22:37, 9 May 2008 (BST)

I could implement that, but I've actually managed to get around those instances anyway (You're right though, a regular expression would be the better method) and since it all appears to be working I won't bother going back and fixing the code unless the bot ever has trouble ripping out a timestamp in future. Besides, I hadn't ever bothered to look up the revelent C# code as I've not needed it. I am the master of procrastination. Anyway, I'm just checking a few last things out, probably try a proper test run sometime tommorow. The Rooster 23:11, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Cool! Looking forwards to that. And I suppose that even in cases where the bot misses the occasional oddly formated "sig" value, the worst that will happen is an image doesn't get expired, right? In which case, either a human being eventually notices and expires it manually, or it just gets updated in the normal course of events, hopefully fixing the "sig" value.  Swiers 23:19, 9 May 2008 (BST)

You're absolutely right in that analysis. And if I have anything to do with it, It'll probably be me fixing the sig, within a minute of finding somebody prevented my poor bot from working right. PS: Is the double signing intentional? The Rooster 23:40, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Nope. Probably an editing typo made when fixing my own post. Oh, and I'll be sure not to manually expire any more pages, so the bot actually has some test cases to work on!  Swiers 23:54, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Ran the script about 15 minutes ago. It saw two images as already expired, and went and expired 5 more for good measure. I quickly checked the pages it had updated and they all see to be fine, the map hasn't broken either, so that's good. One problem I did notice was that originally one page has an image that had expired, but the tag was user signed. I manually fixed this before I ran the edit, as if the bot is the only thing to expire images from now on, it won't ever encounter this problem in the future. I'll run it once a day like the other bot. I must say I was mighty impressed that 74 images were less than a week old, that's a pretty high tally. The Rooster 14:37, 10 May 2008 (BST)

Looks like its working well. Thanks, that saves me 15 minutes or so a day... hours each week. One small favor- could you try to NOT run the bot on Sundays? That's the day I do my archive image for the week, and I'd hate to have a SIM page get expired right before I do the archive image.  Swiers 00:49, 12 May 2008 (BST)

No problem --  RoosterDragon  14:08, 12 May 2008 (BST)

Phase 2?

OK, now that this is working so well, it seems that the tool-tip timestamps are pretty much pointless; either the image is less than a week old (and visible) or its GONE. Originally they were needed to make it easy to spot expired images, but now there simply aren't any!
Given this new situation, what would be much easier (for people updating the map) to do is to just have 1 image per SIM with a fixed name, and upload a new version of that image whenever updating the page. This would basically makes a SIM update a "1 click" operation!
HOWEVER, this hinges on the ability of you to adapt your bot to look at that image's history page or some such (I could provide a list of the image names that will be used), determine how long it has been since a new version has been uploaded, and either upload the "expired" version as a replacement, roll back to that version, or otherwise somehow change the image that gets shown when that image is included on a page to the "expired" version. Is that technically possible? Something you would be willing to tackle?  Swiers 06:11, 15 May 2008 (BST)

I'd contest that that timestamp is useless. It's actually rather useful. It provides a quick way for users of the map to check how recent the picture is, they might decide an old but not yet expired image is inaccurate if they think there's been a lot of changes in there area, at least, that's how I find it. If you think that the pro of easier updates is enough to outweigh the loss of timestamps, then I'd be willing to have a bash at it. I believe that it would be possible to look at an image history and check the timetamps, then revert to the first revision if nessessary. --  RoosterDragon  17:27, 15 May 2008 (BST)

That would work. I agree that the timestamps are potentially useful for what you said. However, the updates would take MUCH less time to do if updating was as simple as 1) clicking on an image on the map (which imdeiately lets you see how old it is anyhow; the file history is shown on the image page) and then 2) uploading a new version of that file. It also would be MUCH easier to explain how to do. I think the result would be more frequent updates, hence fresher images on average, which potentially would make the absence of timestamps less of an issue. Truth told, I suspect most folks look at SIMgrid anyhow, which already doesn't allow you to see the timestamps.  Swiers 23:17, 15 May 2008 (BST)

People are lazy, they probably look at the grid because it's the one linked to on the main page. But you put a good case forward otherwise and I'm inclined to agree, faster contributions would indeed negate any real need for timestamps. My only request would be that the initial version of any page/image is the expired version, that way I can revert to the first version each time and save doing anything unnessessarily more complicated. So if you provide that list (or a link to the list) then I'll fiddle about with some sandbox testing when I get the chance. --  RoosterDragon  19:23, 16 May 2008 (BST)

Cool, I'll get to work on a new core SIM that has nothing but appropriately named "expired" images in it, and give you a list of the 81 image names used when I'm done. Then I can just move the images over (a one time pain in the ass) and adjust the map update instructions, etc.  Swiers 20:32, 16 May 2008 (BST)

Here's one of the image pages: Image:SIM-5-5.png. The rest are similarly named, and can be seen on Scenteral_Intelligence_Map/core_map_2. There is a fair bit of text in the image summary that really does need to stay there regardless of how the image changes, but its just a template, {{SIMimage}}. If at all possible, if would be ideal that, when the bot reverts the image, that template is put in the summary field. I'm not sure if you are allowed / required to enter a new summary (I suspect that is the case) or if the old one gets used. I used the summary on most (but not all) of them when I uploaded them the first time, so (if you can force it to be used) try and keep an eye out for cases where reverting to the first version causes it to vanish; I'll come up with an alternate solution (like deleting the entire image page, then re-making it).  Swiers 03:23, 17 May 2008 (BST)

I've just run a quick test on this image here. Image:TestImage.PNG I can have the bot upload and edit the description as it likes. My main problem will be testing the timestamps as the File history exsists outside normal page text. I'll have to mess about a bit with my streams and have it lift the pages source rather than the usual page text. At any rate, should be able to get it all working if I can recvoer those timestamps. --  RoosterDragon  19:00, 17 May 2008 (BST)

I've got code that now recovers the full page source. It's dead slow since there's so much text, but it gets all 81 pages nicly in about 2 minutes. The timestamps are recovered properly and all, so it's basically ready. I've got a copy of the expired image sitting in my HD ready to upload as nessessary. When do you want to have this thing start running exactly? --  RoosterDragon  22:11, 17 May 2008 (BST)

I just took the new "all image" version of the map code "live", so you can start it running now. Also, if you could use the old version to actually DELETE all the old pages 9the SIM: xx,yy ones) or maybe to just replace them with a brief text explaining the are obsolete and a link to Scenteral Intelligence Map/update info, that would be excellent; I've actually seen a few updates to those pages since I took the new version live.  Swiers 22:48, 19 May 2008 (BST)

I've just added a helpful comment to every page and then requested a speedy deletion on the lot. Feel a bit sorry for whoever has to process that. The new images, unsurprisingly, haven't had time to go out of date yet. The new bot may have to wait for a few days yet before it gets to make edits. --  RoosterDragon  00:27, 20 May 2008 (BST)

Looks good. I may just go ahead and SD them myself without formal processing. All the images currently showing are less than 5 days old; I didn;t "carry over" any that would go out of date super fast, so even if it takes 7 days for the bot to catch up, it won;t be too bad.  Swiers 02:48, 20 May 2008 (BST)

Botage

I've stuck the Bots User Pages into their own category for easy reference just in case you make any other ones. -- Cheese 19:50, 11 May 2008 (BST)

Thanks. Would you happen to know how I got the accounts marked as bots such that they are known to the wiki? I mean in the sense you could hit the 'show bots' on recent changes or your watchlist and actually that would affect if they showed up or not. I'm new to such things The Rooster 22:25, 11 May 2008 (BST)

I think that would need to have a specific User Rights setup for that to work. As a result, you'd need to talk to Kevan to get that sorted out as Sysops can't do that sort of thing. -- Cheese 22:29, 11 May 2008 (BST)

Well, since mine don't make updates that often, I won't worry about it since people hopefully won't mind (Heck, most probably haven't even noticed) --  RoosterDragon  22:41, 11 May 2008 (BST)

Danger Reports

we seem to be working towards the same goal of working on danger reports, care to team up somehow? --Scotw 18:31, 15 May 2008 (BST)

I'm re-running my bot to see what pages it still can't handle. (I've be fixing those it can't) Once it's done I'll post a list, they're likly pages needing templates or that need to be resigned to the dustbin over at SD, that should cut down in searching for broken pages. In the meantime, can you get your head around what's going on with User:DangerReport/The Flowar Building (Earletown) and User:DangerReport/The Flowar Building. It doesn't seem like a usual "Disambigious page with suburb suffix now overrules this ambigious page".

Looks like the search completed while I was typing this up, here's the failed pages. Template fixes are great. SD's are great when needed. If it's a disambig, just post the name here as the bot can't handle them, but they don't need deleting of course.
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Blakesley Grove Police Department
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Factory 35,85
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Factory 63,0
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Forshaw Towers
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Hodgkinson Row Fire Station
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Lucius General Hospital
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Lumber Mall
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Maney Lane Police Department
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Matraves Crescent Police Department
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Midelton Crescent Police Department
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Monck Auto Repair
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Nuttycombe Auto Repair
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Oswald General Hospital
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Pollet Street Railway Station
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Pople Place School
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Prickett Street Fire Station

We may not need to search for them , but we still have to edit those suckers. I'll work from the bottom of the pile, if you start up top, it should save us having edit conflicts.

Still working on the bot, so I might not get much done though.

--  RoosterDragon  19:28, 15 May 2008 (BST)

Edited the list, I fixed a bunch of them, they've been removed since it takes up so much pagespace. --  RoosterDragon  20:58, 15 May 2008 (BST)

now that you finished all the work, looks like we did a good job :) next time i will make sure i stay on longer than five minutes after offering to help, sorry --Scotw 23:57, 15 May 2008 (BST)

No worries. To be frank all this updating has made me consider if the whole system needs a overhaul and cleanup. I'll have to think about it, a totally standard template system where everything's in good order would be great, but maybe not worth the effort, it would be some 700 pages to go through after all. I dunno, any thoughts? --  RoosterDragon  19:37, 16 May 2008 (BST)

Sysop?

Are you a sysop? If you aren't, would you like to be nominated? You seem to be making some very useful contributions and are trustworthy. The extra powers (moving pages, deleting pages) may come in handy for you (it does me), although pressure to get involved in the "judicial" side can be annoying.  Swiers 20:27, 16 May 2008 (BST)

I'll pass for the moment thanks. I certainly have no wish to deal with petty disputes between users, and I'm getting by otherwise, A/SD has certainly seen my presense over the last few days. Besides, I've barly done that much, I can't imagine any vote would pass since I'm not known to much of the community. Nice of you to suggest though. --  RoosterDragon  20:41, 16 May 2008 (BST)

Hmm. When you showed up on ParserFunctions discussion, I could have sworn you were a venerable member of the wiki from way-back-when. It must be the aura of respectability that the simultaneous use of proper capitalization, punctuation, and sentence structure bring to any member of the wiki community. And Swiers, how do you manage to avoid the general pettiness and infighting that so typifies the life of a sysop? I really have to say I was shocked when I noticed that you were one, because I'd never associated you with the former. --Morgan Blair 19:15, 23 May 2008 (BST)

Its easy to avoid; you just don't stick your nose in peoples business, or take anything personally. However, it also "helps" that I do the bare minimum of adminstrative tasks, including NEVER having been involved in an arbitration ruling. Truth told, I work more as a "privlidged editor" than sysop, and stated as much when I took the post.  Swiers 21:01, 23 May 2008 (BST)

Thanks

I just want to say "Thank you" I may have thought (At the time) my edits to The MacMillan Hotel where cool however as you pointed out, they where not. Thanks for pointing out my misstake, as now I can learn from it. ----VincenT | Third Echelon | Umbrella Corporation --21:59, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Cool, maybe. Easy on the eyes. Not really. Still, you're welcome to add any valid info back in they might've been cut due to the revert. --  RoosterDragon  22:02, 25 May 2008 (BST)

New DangerReport format for mast buildings

Okay, check it out, here's an example of the new format for DangerReports at mast building locations: User:DangerReport/The Norvell Building. Tell me if you see the need for any changes. --Morgan Blair 05:43, 26 May 2008 (BST)

I've finished updating the templates. The only thing I'm not positive of, is that both the map and the sortable list can be displayed on the same page (might trigger the inclusion or size limit, after all), but that doesn't really worry me, because if that is the case, then I'd say keep the map on the Mobile Phone Mast page, and have a link to the sortable list on another page.

Right now, only two locations have updated templates. If you take a look at User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox5, you'll see the sortable list, only a bit messed up. In the rightmost column, all of the locations that do NOT have DangerReport pages are showing red links. All the ones that DO, but haven't been updated to use the new template format, are showing the BuildingInformation template. I'll work more on them tomorrow, but if you want to as well, there they are. Oh, by the way, when creating new DangerReport pages, before you save, do a preview, and click on the link to the DangerReport's location page. If it doesn't take you there, it's because I've either made a typo, or if you get a disambiguation page, it's because the specific link wasn't in the template properly when I started working on it. If either of those two things happens, don't save the page, but let me know about it, so I can fix my template, and make sure everything else is correct. --Morgan Blair 08:27, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Awesome work, I'll certainly work on some of those templates, I'll feel like I've taken a total backseat otherwise. And I'll certainly make sure I don't create any bad templates, I didn't just spend the better part of 2 days finding and fixing up all those darned reports only to add some useless ones myself.

Two minor points then: A) On your list, could you not dump the building link and the co-ords? All the danger reports will have those anyway. (I'll make sure of that!) B) I think the original request was hoping for an obvious status on the danger reports, maybe a small image could be inserted under the status one (About half the height of the status ones) just so it's there but not taking up undue space.

Oh, and once the sandbox is working fine, I'd like to recode the Bot before anything goes live.

Again, my thanks! --  RoosterDragon  13:31, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Duh, Maybe I should take a little more time to understand the template before making comments. Struck my own stupidity. --  RoosterDragon  13:50, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Not my day this, since the danger reports won't be present, prehaps a new column is needed with a link to each report, each link would be 'Update the suburb mast status' or whatever. People will need a quick reference. --  RoosterDragon  15:55, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Heh. Blame me for splitting our conversation into two streams. Ah-me! Anyway, I'm not sure about your "Duh," comment. Everything you said seems to be reasonable. I just want to make sure this really basic change works first (and as you know, we're already having a bit of a glitch). Actually, I want to build a new version of the Template:BuildingStatus that includes the mast status in the regular Danger Report at the top of the page. Then, build an Information Center (MBIC: Mast Building Information Center, or MTIC: Malton Telephone Information Center?). Certainly, it should be no problem to make a list that includes the building status as well (as long as it doesn't cause an inclusion overload). But now, I've got to try to worry out the reason not everything is showing up...

Another thing, on DangerReport standardization... I'm 100% in favor of their being standardized, however... The old, "People, blah blah, don't delete the user line", well... I have only seen about 1 deleted user line in months (and I update a lot of Danger Reports at NTs all over the place), so I don't really think that's an issue anymore. What I'm more likely to see is the x,y line being deleted (and still not that often). Basicly, I really don't think there needs to be an admonishment at all. HOWEVER, I really am in favor of the "DO NOT EDIT ABOVE/BELOW THIS LINE" bit, because (especially for new editors), it makes it really clear where you ARE supposed to make changes, and because it's cordoning off everything else, it makes the wikicode look a lot less confusing. But this is just my opinion. Also, on categorization... Certainly, everything should should be in Category:Building Danger Levels, but I don't really think that, for example, the DangerReport pages for NecroTech buildings need to be in Category:Necrotech Buildings. Some are. Many aren't. It's the same for many other building types, like hospitals (a portion have their DangerReport pages in the category, but most don't). I don't think they should be there; it really just clutters the category's list of articles. It would be far better to make a new category, say Category:NecroTech Building Danger Reports, make it a subcategory of Category:Necrotech Buildings, and then on the DangerReport pages, use a sort key, like this: [[:Category:NecroTech Building Danger Reports|{{subst:SUBPAGENAME}}]]. It might be a good idea to talk to [[User:Rosslessness|Rosslessness]] about the topic. He updates a lot of NT Danger Reports '''''and''''' does a lot of categorization.. Hmm. It looks like I need to learn how to communicate more concisely... --Morgan Blair 20:22, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Mostly, I just wanted a de facto line to put when I did the bot-assisted edit. The user line comment appeared, like, everywhere so it stayed, not having been here so long I didn't really know the score. And, personally, I think comments for 'Don't edit above/below the line' are horribly messy and make the template look more confusing. With the pipes fixed, the lines to edit are so nicly presented that I think only a drunkard would get it wrong. As another part of the edit, I categorised EVERYTHING. Everything got dumped in Building Danger Reports. Before the edit, a large proportion of buildings included their type in the category, but only a small proportion included their suburb, as such I standardised, everything got a type category and all the suburb categories were removed. I'll certainly talk to Ross about it, although I'd rather not run the bot again, it takes forever because it's an edit-assist bot and I have to double check each one of the 650-ish pages. Now closer to 750 with the new ones for the Masts (Which I've given up on for today). Then again, I don't want to appear like some sort of anal rententive standards dictator whose word goes. So on the provisio an accepted look can be come up with and I won't ever have to run the bot again apart from new pages that crop up, I'd be all for it. *Darts off to Rosslessness's talk page* --  RoosterDragon  20:33, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Heh. It's interesting how much we can all differ in our response to appearances (re:comment lines). Well, might as well leave it the way it's always (mostly) been. As for categories, I'm not really too big of a category freak. I wouldn't worry about it too much. They're bad for server load, too (so I hear). However, a question. Is there as specific reason that you've been including the new mast building Danger Reports on their location pages in a different way then standard? In almost every case that I've seen, they always go on the very top (above the location block. It's not that where you put them looks bad, or anything, just "different". And since you've put such a lot of effort into standardization, it seemed odd that you'd deviate from the standard page layout, in this case... As for our problem with statuses not coming through, I'm still working on that one. I'm really dreading the possibility of having to completely rework the entire template system. --Morgan Blair 21:30, 26 May 2008 (BST)

I like it that way, above the location template and everything gets shifted down needlessly, below it and the two work together, both at put at the same height and the report centers itself based on whatever room it has left. It just looks better in my view. There's no reason to be consistant if it's a bad thing after all. But such decisions about appearance are arbitary (as you indeed mentioned), and I'm incredibly arbitary. So much so I would in fact make a poor arbitor. ("You're BOTH doing it wrong!" Here's how you should do it...") Anyway I rather hope you can solve the problem without a major rework, because that means I have to change all the templates all over again. (Though I'll probably bot it if that happens, probably take less time to code it up and run it anyway.) --  RoosterDragon  21:45, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Errant Span Tag

So, check this out. I'm analyzing the code, trying to find the problem, and I notice that in the two rows I was comparing, the one that didn't work was missing the crucial space (id="suburb"style="{{User... vs. id="suburb" style="{{User...). Added it back in wherever it was missing (no idea how it got that way), and it fixed... Most, but not all of the problems. Take a look. I've tried to find some similar error in the code for the remaining suborn ones, but no luck thus far. --Morgan Blair 22:30, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Check this out. The output on the page is from a working and a not working link. I enclosed each part in text so it clearly (I say clearly...) showed up where each call started and ended. It looks that same on face value, but when you delve into the page source code...

WSTARTactive WENDRSTARTactive REND

Where'd that extra come from? That must be what's breaking the template because it appears only in the broken call. --  RoosterDragon  23:39, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Where is that? I've never seen "WENDRSTART" anywhere. Frankly, I haven't a clue... However, I'm at the stage where I think it might be best to rebuild everything from the ground up. ERNesbitt was using "div id" to assign all the status colors, and I think that there's probably a way simpler method, since we're calling the status codes from the DangerReport pages, now. At the moment, I'm rebuilding the map, using Template:DangerMap as a model (I'll include more then just the suburb names, though]]. But tell me more about what you found. Remember, I'm not a programer-type (just a semi-proficient end-user). --Morgan Blair 23:51, 26 May 2008 (BST)

And I'm not a web-coder type. WENDRSTART is text that I entered because I'm mad, ignore it entirly. Here's a version where I've used 1's and 2's.

1active 12active 2

Between the 2's is what happens when you call a working report that should display active. Between the 1's is what happens when you call a report that isn't working. (This is from the page's source code, btw) Basically, what I'm saying is that there's a in the malfunctioning one that seems to be causing the problem, the wiki tries to handle it and thus it doesn't show on previews etc, but it fails miserably and the template doesn't return the proper style code for an active suburb. I'm just wondering where the closing span every came from, therein lies the source of the problem.

Sorry for the confusion there, it made sense in my head--  RoosterDragon  00:18, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Um, maybe I'm being painfully dense, but I went over all the templates, and I can't find a "span" tag in use at all. What page are you talking about? Give me a link... --Morgan Blair 00:46, 27 May 2008 (BST)

If you call this template --> {{User:DangerReport/Yeatman Library|template=MalTelMastStatus}} it returns active</span> which is why the code breaks. The wiki tries to close a span where there isn't one and just gives up.

Where the span comes from, is a good question. It's not on the DangerReport in question as far as I can see, but if one could work out where it came from, one could fix the problem for this case at least. --  RoosterDragon  00:52, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Ah-ha! Rooster, what you needed to tell me was that I needed to look at the html source code for the page, or the "html output", or something like that. I'm not a web coder either (and I've only recently started mucking about in wiki code). I was just about to write back once again, saying that you were making utterly no sense to me. But now that I've figured out what you mean... Yeah. No clue why it's doing that. As I said: from the ground up. It really shouldn't be all that hard. I'll get the map finished, first... --Morgan Blair 01:11, 27 May 2008 (BST)

but when you delve into the page source code... or This is from the page's source code But since you're working from ground up, it doesn't matter. I'll stop badgering you now. --  RoosterDragon  01:15, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Heh. I just read that as This is from the page's wiki code. Yes, yes, what you said was technically correct, but I wasn't parsing it. Anyway, since I have no clue what's causing it, or how to fix it, from the ground up it shall have to be! --Morgan Blair 01:27, 27 May 2008 (BST)

I figured out where the errant "span" tag is coming from! Do this: go to where I'm building the table from the ground up, in User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox 3, click on the sort toggle in the "Suburb" column so that it's pointing up. All the locations that we have the special Danger Report set up will go to the top (except for Yagoton, at the very bottom). Next will come inclusions of the Danger Report BuildingStatus template from all the mast buildings that have DangerReport pages, but haven't been converted yet. After that are three locations that HAVE our special DangerReport pages, but are not showing up properly (The Halliday Building in Dunningwood, the Yeatman Library in Gibsonton, and the Amos Building in Huntley Heights), followed by all the locations without Danger Reports. What's different about those three locations? All three have the same signature in the Update column, and that signature doesn't appear at any other locations. Here it is:

[[User:Pele_Rose|<span style="cursor:help;font-weight:bold"><span style="font-weight:bold; color:red">Pele</span><span style="font-weight:bold; color:pink"> Rose</span>]][[MalTel|<span style="cursor:help; font-size:70%; vertical-align:30%" title="MalTel Wiki">MalTel</span>]][[User talk:Pele_Rose|<span style="cursor:help; font-size:70%; vertical-align:30%" title="Talk">Talk</span>]]

Somewhere in there is what's causing the problem... --Morgan Blair 04:33, 27 May 2008 (BST)

And found! The problem is that the signature has three opening "span" tags, but only closes two of them. I edited the signature on one of the Danger Reports, adding a third at the end of it, and checked back on Sandbox 3, and it made that location work. Now, to go talk to Pele Rose, and get him to fix it... --Morgan Blair 04:41, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Report Redesign

Okay, while we wait for Pele's replay... I've been working on the new table, and it was coming along well, but... First, take a look at User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox9. This is the new table format, but with just one row. First, you have the "District" column, as normal, Next, the "Suburb" column, normal as well (but without the multiple layers of templates). After then, the new "Status" column. This shows the mast building's Danger Level graphic (I'm going to make a new set of scaled-down images with transparent corners, because...) with the suburb's danger level in the background. Next, in the "Building" column, the name of the mast building links to its DangerReport page. In the "Coordinates" column, the link is to the building location's page itself. And then, of course, the "Last Update column", as usual. So where's the "but" in all this? Well, because of using the template-as-variable trick, it's impossible (as far as I know how) to set any specific variables for the template you're using to make the call with, so the "District" and "Suburb" information needs to go into the DangerReport page as well. If you take a look at that one report I've switched over so far, the line with the additional information looks like this:

|building=Olivey Library|xy=(45,44)|district=NW5|suburb=Barrville

So, it's part of the permanent-variables line. So, if you make any new Danger Report for mast buildings, go ahead and add that info into the template. Oh, and the added benefit to all this? Reduction of the number of transclusion, and the size of the transcluded information. Before, I was making two separate calls to to each Danger Report, to get the mast status, and the user sig. Now, I'm making one call to get all the info, and one more to get the suburb danger level (and that transclusion only has a single, short line of text). So the whole system's a bit simpler, now. Hmm. I need to figure out how the Mall Status Map works... --Morgan Blair 16:27, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Screw manual updates, I'll code up something to do this for me before I die of sheer tedium from changing everything back and forth. Anyway, do we actually need the suburb danger level on the map? I think the current mast-only style system works well as is, and the mast status has only the most limited of links to the danger level and doesn't tie in as well as the NT of EMRP ones do. NT's and EMRP's matter a lot more than a mast being active or not, and once again from a personal point of view, I think the extra colours would just be confusing. Originally I thought that the suburb Barrville was moderate danger, but the mast was active in a ransacked building! but no, the colours are the other way round! The confusion! As far as setting the district and suburb, can't you just set them manually on the line and then call the template for the stuff that actually changes? It's seems unessesary, that's all. If it's a true technical limitation, ignore my ignorance, but I swear that's what the current system does anyway in some form or another. Finally, those pictures are too small to really be of use, I'd say some text would do the job better. I'm a picky chap but better now than before you have to change 100 lines of code as opposed to one. --  RoosterDragon  16:48, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Hmm. Since each report's going to get a different suburb, won't the coding be at least as tedious as doing it manually? And I didn't say that you needed to do it! :::Grins::: As for the suburb danger level being on the map, I was only planning on having it on the list (unless that's what you meant). Since you had said you wanted to see the building's status on the table as well (at least, I thought you said that, somewhere in our very long, two-part conversation), it seemed like it was an unobtrusive place to put it. If you think it's better without, I won't argue the point (actually, I think I agree with you). Actually, I was going to ask if we should switch the positions of the mast-status and danger-level colors, but that would be even more confusing. Okay, Suburb Danger Level will be dropped. Building Status pictures will be swapped out for text (since it's lowercase, maybe I'll tack it on to the end of the building's name, in the same column, like: "Olivey Library is ransacked"). Re:setting the district and suburb: why don't you put a hold on changing (or making any new) danger report pages, while I do some more testing. I might be able to replicate what EBNesbit did, but since I've never seen it done before, I can't be sure. Of course, now that we've tracked down that problem (with Pele Rose's signature), we could go back to modifying the original system, but done that way, I'd probably have to make two separate template calls (and things start to get increasingly unwieldy). Also, I just realized that when you sort the list by "Last Update", it's actually not sorting them by date (it's by SIGNATURE, then date). I think I can solve that one, by adding another permanent variable (a magic word that gives an ISO timestamp), putting that in an additional column, but making it unseen (so that it looks like you're sorting by the "Last Update" column, but you're actually sorting by the invisible "Timestamp" column. Now, if I can figure out those ID classes... --Morgan Blair 18:33, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Yes, I guess it would be tedious, and since it is working I guess it would be stupid to change that in the name of a simpler danger report (We're using a different method on these reports anyway, what could a few extra varibles on a single line hurt) Now, Suburb danger level on the list, it is still horribly confusing. (Indeed, whatever way you swap the colours to be) I still think it's unrequired. It's removal will also rid us of any confusing colour schemes. So I'm in agreement that it should go. I won't make any more Danger Reports until the system ready and we can be sure it won't have to be again. I also wouldn't worry too much about the updates thing, I don't think anybody actually ever sorts that list anyway and the bot grabs all the out of date stuff these days, but if you can fix it, all the better. --  RoosterDragon  19:04, 27 May 2008 (BST)

So, I've changed the layout. Take a look at the new one and tell me what you think. Also, I spent several hours attempting to find a way to pass the specify "district" and "suburb" when making the call for info from the Danger Report, and I don't think it can be done. With the previous system, the two variables were being defined at the top level, which just got swapped out for other bits of code by the various templates. Here, three of our variables are being defined on another page, and unless that page is set to pass other variables down from a higher level (like, if the DangerReport page had district={{{district}}} on it), there's no way to get it where you want it to go (i.e., the template with the formatting and the spots for all the variables to sit in). While there are other ways the final product could be achieved, I think the one that used the least number of transclusions and the least amount of replicated wiki code is probably the best. However, since the part of the code the will be under the most scrutiny by the public eye will be that which is on the DangerReport pages, rather then put the variable definitions for the district and suburb there, I could simply put a generic variable pass-through there instead (and make them really short). Basically, something like:

{{{{{template|BuildingStatus}}}|d={{{d}}}|s={{{s}}}
|building=Olivey Library|xy=(45,44)

That way, the extra code's on a line that's already altered from the norm. I'm 99.98% sure that will do the trick, but it will have to wait until tomorrow (at least), along with tinkering with a time stamp. Anyway, take a look at Sandbox 9 and tell me if it meets approval. --Morgan Blair 01:38, 28 May 2008 (BST)

No need to change it, it's working, it's fine, and there's no real advantage to be gained. When I run the bot, I can chuck the odd code on the top line anyway, it'll still read district and suburb. Besides, nice naming of varibles will hopefully make it easier for future maintenance. My final request is one I mentioned earlier but it probably got buried. Is it possible to have a small picture or line of text showing the mast status on the modified Danger Reports? Text would be fine but in order to spice it up you might need more templates which is obviously something you're trying to avoid, so a quick reference to an image would probably have the least impact. I defer to your judgement on this one. --  RoosterDragon  12:08, 28 May 2008 (BST)

Okay. "suburb" and "district" the variables shall thus be named. On the subject of the time code, I really am going to give that a go, because it would be useful in other contexts, too, and the ability to quickly sort the list to see what's the oldest would make it far easier to go through and update (like finding the 10-day point, and updating everything after that point to "unknown", or finding the 5-day point, and switching the appropriate locations to "statusold". So, I might as well learn how to do it here, where what we're mucking about isn't really being used (especially since we're having to create most of the required DangerReport pages from scratch). But, I'll start working on the new Danger Report template, first. That doesn't really require any more templates (as far as how many are used at once), and doesn't impact the list or map. I was thinking just using the MalTel tower image, with the status color in the background, and interpret the status code something better formatted (capitalization, "Active (old)" instead of "activeold", etc. Let me know if you have anything specific in mind, though. --Morgan Blair 17:41, 28 May 2008 (BST)

The bot can perform updates for old and unknown statuses, that's what it currently does anyway, shouldn't be impossible to modify it accordingly. As far as displaying the status went, I was thinking the Mast tower on the left. Then text next to it 'Mast Status: Active' With the actual varible in all caps and the revelant colour (EG: Active in bright green, No Fuel in yellow etc) where applicable old would be brackted just like you've done it (Maybe a capital 'O') and the whole colour of that bit of text would be a more washed out version (Pale green, plae yellow etc etc) all on a white background, this was partially to match the style some pages used anyway, but it's not vital, whatever works. I'll try knocking up a quick example image. --  RoosterDragon  18:03, 28 May 2008 (BST)

No example, yet? Anyway, I've given up on the timestamp issue, for now. Short of making people substitute a new magic word every time they update, I haven't figured out a way to make it work. Anyway, I solved another small problem, and since you're the DangerReport bot-person, you should go take a look at Template talk:BuildingStatusDisambig. Essentially, it's a modified BuildingStatus template, and an additional parameter value added to DangerReport pages for locations that have been disambiguated by appending their suburb names. Since Danger Reports nearly always appear on pages that are already specifying the suburb, it's redundant (and ugly), but in the case of the new mast building table, it would have been particularly so. Anyway, since you've not got an example for me yet, I'll work on finishing up the pass-through code to add to the DR pages, so we can get back to those. --Morgan Blair 21:06, 29 May 2008 (BST)

Okay, that was quick work, for once. Here's the format for the first four lines:

{{{{{template|BuildingStatus}}}
|building=Olivey Library|xy=(45,44)
|district={{{district}}}|suburb={{{suburb}}}
|mast_status=destroyed

In the case of ambiguously named location, the format is:

{{{{{template|BuildingStatusDisambig}}}
|disambig=The Buttle Building|building=The Buttle Building (Dakerstown)|xy=(4,5)
|district={{{district}}}|suburb={{{suburb}}}
|mast_status=unknown

I decided to put the two new parameter values on a separate line, because the code looked less messy that way. --Morgan Blair 21:37, 29 May 2008 (BST)

I'll feed that into the danger report bot. I might put the suburb and district above the building an XY, to futhur disassociate them with the new and editable mast status, but I'll be using comments like the ones you use to boot anyway. By the way, I knocked up a test image here (incomplete of course). I used the coloured background you suggested, it needed it. If you think it needs changing to be more in line with the current status image (rounded corners and the like) just say so, alternatively just make some better versions yourself. Once some images are ready, the report template code can be changed to display the correct image names. I can then code the new MPM bot and danger report bot and feel like I'm actually doing something more than badgering you. Woo. --  RoosterDragon  23:22, 29 May 2008 (BST)

Hmm... I'll have to talk to Hagnat and see what he thinks (since he's the one who created the mall status graphics). Also, I queried Kerak on the Ackland Mall issue. I'm certain that our parameter values won't affect any of the existing usage, but I'd rather get it vetted. Also, stop by Sandbox 9 again, to see the present state. I've broken the page up into separate tables, for the moment, so that the missing/unmodified pages won't upset the formatting of all the rest. Tell me if you have any issues with the current manifestation of the formating. Mostly, all that remains now is making the rest of the pages, but at the moment, I'm going to give it a rest, because my brain is becoming wiki-fried... --Morgan Blair 01:53, 30 May 2008 (BST)

My only quibble is that Eastonwood gets a bit stretched because the building is in zombie hands, and this takes up two lines. More room for status methinks, you could easily reduce the co-ords room if you need to keep the overwall width no larger than it is. Also, if Hagnat doesn't take to it, we could always just create a new template solely for displayed the status of a decent size and chuck it on the page. TBH I think that would actually be better (It could be bigger, shiner and with a nice link to the MPM page etc etc). Try manuipulating a few images and chucking the image underneath the current graphics, it doesn't go all that well really. --  RoosterDragon  01:59, 30 May 2008 (BST)

You must be using a bigger font-size them I am. Check Sandbox 9 again. I've made two demos of a trial alteration. It works on my browser even if I increase the font-size a step. How does it look on yours? --Morgan Blair 02:38, 30 May 2008 (BST)

Hmmm, medium size says my browser, oh well. Your alterations work fine, with maybe room for 2-3px to be shaved off if you really wanted. --  RoosterDragon  02:42, 30 May 2008 (BST)

Useless Danger Reports

If you don't know the status, don't make danger reports to bolster your edit count! Ioncannon11 15:02, 26 May 2008 (BST)

They're part of an update to include the status of phone masts, although it does appear that I am creating useless reports, I assure you that they will be used once they're all in place. --  RoosterDragon  15:07, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Let someone who is inside those buildings make them or it looks like spam. Thanks for fixing my templates, though ;). Ioncannon11 15:17, 26 May 2008 (BST)

I'll live with it, my edit count can't be taken as accurate anyway, I've run a few bot-assisted edits through this account. If you take a gander at my contributions you'll notice I've edited almost every single danger report. Indeed over 600 edits within a few hours. My edit count = worthless. --  RoosterDragon  15:21, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Danger report standards.

I have to say I lean towards morgan. 90% of errors made on danger reports are to do with the }} after user=.

Keeping that as far away from what people have to edit is always preferable.

The other errors people make are as so.

Under status, adding a fullstop, capital letters on/not on all words. can't do a lot about that unless you add new templates but hey. there both v. good templates to follow as a guide.

As for categories. id add the suburb the building is in and also a category if its a TRP, fire stations included.

The problem i have with danger reports (especially on towers, clubs and banks) is few people bother updating them because you have to click through a lot of pages to get a good picture (even in suburbs with building information screens). All trp's may be held but it can still be a wasteland.

Now ideally, if the danger reports for a suburb could be shrunk and automatically placed on one page, like Mall Status Map. That would be much better. But hey, one project at a time. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:45, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Tactical Resource Points and Fire departments are the most commonly reported areas, as are mobile phone masts. I just feel that a category on say banks is extra work for little real gain.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:00, 27 May 2008 (BST)

New Danger Report template, and the MPM-IC!

Er, so I've gone ahead and made the new images, and the template. You can check them out at the MPM-IC. I think it would be best to leave the DangerReport pages themselves to use the standard BuildingStatus template, and simply specify the alternate template to be used where it is desired. On that note, all of the location pages for the mast buildings will need to have the "{{User:DangerReport/ThisLocation}}" call changed to "{{User:DangerReport/ThisLocation|template=BuildingStatusMalTel}}". All except Ackland Mall, of course. It's already using a custom call to a special layer, prior to calling the new template. However, it wouldn't be suitable for replacement on the Ackland Mall page, so I made a custom "mast mini-report" template, for use on that page. I've added it to the page—hopefully nobody objects. Hmm, I think that's it for now... --Morgan Blair 19:45, 1 June 2008 (BST)

Awesome template. Seriously. I redirected MPM-IC as needed. It may be worth redirecting Mobile Phone Mast Information Center and MPMIC too. As far as the renaming goes, I can run the MPM bot and have it overwrite everything first go even if no statuses changed. I'll work on the code today, I decided that I'd recover all the pages and then update, relised this was idiotic as edit conflicts could easily occur and so I'm reorganising it to recover, check and update each page one by one (More akin to the new SIM bot) to reduce this risk. Need to do less late night programming, can't think properly. Anyway, thanks again for all the hard work! --  RoosterDragon  13:26, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Thinking about it, Mobile-Phone Mast Information Center should be A/SD'ed and all the content moved to Mobile Phone Mast Information Center with MPM-IC and MPMIC redirecting to that. The hypen is out of place given the fact that the exsisting page, Mobile Phone Mast, does not have one. Would you agree with that plan of action? In other news, the bot is almost done, woo. --  RoosterDragon  15:55, 2 June 2008 (BST)

In response to your first post: I created redirects for Mpm-ic and Mpmic (it always auto-caps the pages). Apparently it will find "MPMIC" if you type "mpmic" in the search field (but not as a link), but won't find "MPM-IC" from "mpm-ic". As for the hyphen, I was just matching the in-game syntax, but if you think the page should be redirected to a hyphenates one, go ahead and do it. Those are the kinds of issues that really don't matter to me. But it can't be speedy-deleted, because somebody's already made an edit. --Morgan Blair 16:03, 2 June 2008 (BST)

It could be SD'ed for dupe content after it was moved. It could always just be moved normally of course! That would be easier. I'm not pedantic enough to move it, redirects will do just fine. --  RoosterDragon  16:16, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Your images are pretty damn good, but can you actually see the text for the no fuel old and destroyed old versions? The bright yellow barely stands out, and the orange is better but not great. Might be worth a small revision. --  RoosterDragon  18:34, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Hmm... What's the condition of your comp's display? I was about to agree with you, in the case of nofuelold, but then I realized that I had the LCD on my laptop turned town to it's very lowest level (I'd been listening to podcasts, and didn't have it plugged in, so I'd turned the screen down to save on the battery). Once I turned it back up to normal brightness, I had no problem reading it. Not that the image has the most readable level of contrast ever, though. If there are any other complaints, I suppose I could darken the background grey from the standard for inactive backgrounds, but considering that it is an "old" image, the fact that the former status isn't the most legible ever doesn't seem to be a major issue, to me... --Morgan Blair 00:40, 3 June 2008 (BST)

My monitor is heavy on the brightness and the contrast, my suggestion would've been to just tone down the text's brightness slightly so it stood out more against the background. That said, nofuelold is indeed quiet a rare status to hold, and it's no major worry. --  RoosterDragon  13:32, 3 June 2008 (BST)

Hmm. Is it a CRT? Stuff probably look totally different on one of those. Anyway, let me know if anyone else mentions it, and then the easier fix will be to darken the background a bit. --Morgan Blair 15:29, 3 June 2008 (BST)

SIM update discussion

Have any comments / ideas relating to this?  Swiers 21:40, 5 June 2008 (BST)

Omnimap

Thanks very much, nice to be appreciated. All the clever stuff for the map was stolen borrowed from Sweirs and Karek, I just fiddled about with their code. I am planning to move it to mainspace, but I haven't been able to do one last thing - I'd like each suburb gif to act as a link to the appropriate suburb page, and I can't do it. The best I've been able to do is to get the name to come up as a tooltip. Any ideas? (More on the problem here).

Part of the reason for the new map was to drum up support for the scentmap, because at the moment poor old Sweirs is doing most of it himself, and more mappers would be very useful.

cheers, Garum 12:14, 13 June 2008 (BST)

I've now moved it to Omnimap and put category tags on. I still haven't got the suburbs linked. Garum 15:15, 13 June 2008 (BST)

I did take the SIMgrid suburb names and scaled it for my map, and it worked fine, but I thought in the end it obscured too much of the scent data. That's why I changed the suburb borders and un-bolded the mall names, so more scent data would be visible.

You're right, what I'd ideally like is that there would be no labels (the tooltip is fine) but that the suburbs link to their articles. Clicking on them at the moment takes you to the burb-border gifs. It might be possible to put a layer of transparent images over the scent data and burbs, but under the mall names, but I don't know how to make an image link to anything other than the image page. The page is also pretty large and calls an awful lot of templates. I'm concerned that I'll hit inclusion limits or something (I did in the first version, using the {{c|colour|text}}). Any ideas? Garum 16:35, 13 June 2008 (BST)

Oh well, thanks for trying. I've put a sidebar of suburb names on the page, which isn't ideal but at least makes a link to each burb available on the page. Garum 10:18, 14 June 2008 (BST)

New Map

So, after pulling all the map data last Thursday, isolating the NTs, and converting the spreadsheet data into 100 CSV snippets, I was over-wikified, and let the whole thing rest until now. Today, I converted the CSVs into wiki-table code, changed the formatting (actually, a pipe+space combo does take more data space then a single carriage return, but it amounts to less then 10 kilobytes, so unless the margin is that tight...), assembled the complete table, added all the roll-over code, etc... Still a mock-up (no live-links to NT statuses), but take a look here, and tell me what you think at this point. Also, a gridded version is here, although I don't really like how it looks. I'm trying to find a table class that will let me make all the grid-lines the same color, but no luck so far. --Morgan Blair 22:25, 18 June 2008 (BST)

Tis nice, I've got a working NT mock up at User:The Rooster/Sandbox2 although when I informed Swiers he found it to be less than perfect in his browser, and I haven't been able to fix the problem with the suburb danger report table that refuses to be the size I told it to be, works for me but not him apparently. So nothing's been implemented. Your table version is probably the better bet unless I can work out what's going on. Anyway, the live links work for the most part, I had a bot run all the templates to include the code to allow your to define the template you want to use. The template I use is stored in User:The Rooster/Sandbox. However, a problem I have noticed is that the user line doesn't get parsed so you still get stuff like [[User:Dude|Dude]] in the tooltip. An error I can live with at any rate, but attempts to include a user line that utilises a templated signature causes the entire thing to collaspe in on itself. It preserves the styling and only the tooltip is lost (which is better than crashing at any rate) but I can't think of any way to fix the problem other than changing the report to have 3 and 5 tilde signatures so the user name and timestamp are seperate and that's not a good option. Oh, how did you get those gridlines, they're pretty neat even if you can't change the colour.

Your table doesn't appear in correct proportions to me. From the code I see that you're uisng 6x6 on each cell (from what I can tell, you've defined a diagonal line of cells like this so the others naturally follow suit) but it doesn't seem to work out. The top line of cells in a suburb looks 6x6, but all the others look more like 6x5. There's definatly a size difference at any rate. Maybe defining the suburb dimensions as well might help? I don't know. I'll screen it if you need my monitors POV. --  RoosterDragon  22:55, 18 June 2008 (BST)

I used "border="1"" to give the tables borders for each cell (seems to work independently of "style="border:2px, etc.""), and then used the "border-collapse" attribute and zero cellspacing to keep them from expanding the size of the table.

I share your frustrations with tables not being the size you tell them to be. There's something wonky in the wikicode, that doesn't handle things correctly. For example, if you make a 10x10 grid, and tell each row and each column to be 10%, and even adjust the size of the total table to account for the dimensions of borders and such, will all the cells be the exact same size? No, they most certainly will not be. In my browser, setting the size of the cells themselves in pixel dimension made it all measure out correctly, but if it's not on your end... Take a screenshot of it, and email it to me (morgan_blair@mac.com), if you will... --Morgan Blair 23:30, 18 June 2008 (BST)

If you want to see what it looks like with the grid-lines all one color, look here, but it's a bit hard on the eyes... You can experiment with different grid colors by calling the page and specifying a color, like "{{User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox5|gray}}", but nothing really looks any better. Having the gridlines in the suburb's danger-level border color seems to work the best, although I prefer the non-grid version, overall.

Anyway, I'll be taking a break on the project, for today... --Morgan Blair 00:33, 19 June 2008 (BST)

I won't bother with an e-mail, my initial thoughts were correct. Adding an overall table width and height causes the boxes to appear correctly.

{|cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="{{User:DangerReport/Dakerstown}}; width:75px; height:75px"
|-
|
{|title="Dakerstown" border="1px" cellpadding="0" style="border:hidden {{{1|black}}}; border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing:0px; background-color:transparent; width:71px; height:71px"

I found the above code to correct the display for Dakerstown (On the gridded version), and two quick find & replace's should allow that code to be added. I'm thinking maybe the cell borders threw off either the wiki, or html, or my browser in some fashion since they get applied outside the thing they are applied to. If the above code doesn't somehow muck up your view, then all is good. Different numbers might be needed for the gridless one, I haven't checked. --  RoosterDragon  18:56, 19 June 2008 (BST)

Note.

No. Its alright. Its a now abandoned attempt to see if i can transfer danger reports into a map size diagram for the suburb. Thanks though. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:21, 19 June 2008 (BST)

StatusMap Legend

Well, I personally think the tall one looks better. At least the previous version of the NT Status Map (which has been deleted by now) used it. I prefer keeping the format the same so it won't confuse people who used to read/edit the article. Your change to the updating system is a big one, and I think we should keep some similaities between the old and new version. That's why I put the link to Necrotech Information Center back in the templates, to keep the links at the same place so people who get used to it can check it out.

I understand why you think seperating the table is a good idea. Still, the result doesn't look very pretty if you put two separate tables side by side. Both tables were squeezed together and their proportions were distorted. At least that's what happened on my wide-screen laptop monitor, and it should be worse on desktop ones. The tall table wasn't that tall until more detailed descriptions were put into the Building Danger Level Colors section.

I've increased the table width to reduce the height. What do you think? Better? Worse? -- Kittithaj 22:04, 27 June 2008 (BST)

The separation line is fine by me. I also increase the box width to match that of the map as you like. Ironically, I also found the way to split two tables and arrange it neatly (by removing all "width=220px" line and letting the browser draws the table by itself) by the time you were done with your version. It probably looks worse on smaller screen, though, with all the columns squeezed together. -- Kittithaj 23:30, 27 June 2008 (BST)

Suburb Danger Level Colors Safe Break-ins rare, no zombie groups. Dangerous Zombies inside many resource buildings; OR hostile mobs of 50+ Moderate Active zombies and break-ins, but no 50+ hostile hordes Very Dangerous Most buildings wide open or zombie-infested; OR hostile zombie mobs of 150+ Ghost Town At least 2/3rds of the suburb's buildings either Empty of Survivors or Ransacked/Ruined AND having no zombie mobs of over 10 and no total zombies over 60

Building Danger Level Colors Safe Less than 15 zombies outside. In Zombie Hands More zombies than survivors inside or all blocks ruined or ransacked. Under Attack 15-50 zombies outside. Rebuilding Survivors recently recaptured the building. Under Siege More than 50 zombies outside. Rot Revive (NT's Only) NecroTech buildings that revive zombies with Brain Rot. Ransacked Less than 10 zombies inside, and any blocks ruined or ransacked. Unknown The building's status is unknown.

I also see your tables stretching problem in my laptop monitor. The reason why I prefer letting web browser taking care of things to using fixed width is the difference in people's monitor sizes. When I resized my monitor to 1024x768, the fixed-width, split tables stretched up the page, while the tall one we are currently using fitted in well. So, I think it's better to leave it at that. -- Kittithaj 17:27, 29 June 2008 (BST)

NT Status Map NT-Metatac-Transparent.png

Hi Rooster. Would it be possible to edit the background image to the NT Status Map so that it's lighter, maybe #efefef? I use the map a lot and the new version's grid is cool but just a bit dyslexic for me. If we could fade it back a bit it might read easier on the eye. --Zeug 05:43, 28 June 2008 (BST)

I had a similar problem as I originally didn't have any opacity, the lines do tend to burn eyes out. Can I just confirm you are seeing transparent lines rather than solid black ones. The lines are already toned down to 25% opacity (#BFBFBF on a white background). If that is what you're seeing and it's still cuasing problems then it could go down a few more notches. Maybe not the equivalent of #EFEFEF as that's 6% opacity and that's a touch low. Prehaps 15% (which shows #D9D9D9 when on a white background) If however you are seeing solid black lines then you probably need to update your browser. --  RoosterDragon  10:49, 28 June 2008 (BST)

No solid black lines, and #EFEFEF might be nicely visible but any which way you like really. As it is the grid does distract from reading the burb names and is kind of heavy graphically speaking.--Zeug 20:10, 28 June 2008 (BST)

Revised to 10% opacity. A bit light for my tastes, but preferable than having some people lose their eyesight. Is this passable? --  RoosterDragon  20:22, 28 June 2008 (BST)

Looks lovely to these undead eyes! Cheers. --Zeug 06:42, 30 June 2008 (BST)

http://sim.urbandead.info

The above site has finally gone "live". There's a few tweaks I still need to make, but it is fully functional in terms of accepting / displaying submissions.

This leaves the question, what to do with the wiki versions? My inclination is to either get rid of them (I already moved the images over to the website) and offer links to the website, or to figure out some way to pull images from the website to use on the wiki. The website will handle all the tasks your bot currently does (IE, expiring images) as chronjobs, but maybe you could get the bot to grab http:///sim.urbandead.info/images/SIM_core_image.png and stick in on the wiki as updates to a specific image? It would be very easy to re-build the current wiki maps around that image; its just a 100x100 px image that has all the scent colors in the proper places to serve as a scent map of Malton. (In fact, the initial image on the site was created by taking a screenshot of SIM and doing a bit of image editing to create that.) All I'd have to do is scale it up for display purposes.  Swiers 19:08, 29 June 2008 (BST)

Now that is pretty awesome. Kinda wish my characters weren't so newbie-ish and could actually submit some updates. Ah well.

As far as updating the wiki goes, it does sound pretty simple to update the current map system. The various maps using the system can suffer for a few days anyway. If you can scale the image up to something large (Say 990px x 990px) I should be able to do a bit of research on how to nick the image off the server in some fashion. The wiki can deal with resizing downwards as needed. --  RoosterDragon  21:44, 29 June 2008 (BST)

EMRP

i've already got a script that parses out the info in the format that i've used in EM archives. i don't really care about the toopic anymore, but i've made that page with IW links because people tend to panic "ohmygod, we lost reports" and i kind of might have them. feel free to put them up on processing for your bot or whatever else you think is usefull --~~~~ [talk] 12:29, 5 July 2008 (BST)

Thanks

I was fooling around with something to do a similar job in a scripting language. So, What's the scope of this bot? Does it add Reports to The External Military page? (The one I don't always have time to process the reports for) Or just Swiers Map?
_■^■ 19:40, 5 July 2008 (BST)

To clarify the above, I mean parse the reports, into a wiki friendly format. I mean, Does the bot add reports to the actual External Military page? We used to add some reports there. And Swier's EMRM/EMRP? An idea I've been toying with, Is having a body or zombie in some forgotten Ghost town suburb, with a radio, and a cron job, Some script, PHP, And one of your bots (Or something like that) Pulling the reports, And sticking the on the wiki.) _■^■ 20:12, 8 July 2008 (BST)

Safe House - Dark issue

Edit collision so I will rephrase and post here... A similar report Wrong Attack Percentages below. The information is not visible enough, I did a search before posting the report, and it seems I'm not alone finding it confusing (and a very bad idea in general), top attack of zeds will be 25%, zeds only have hand to hand skills but will lose to a living human with a shotgun in the Dark, somehow it doesn't seem fair or even realistic... Are there any actions were I can add my support, asking for the alteration of this Dark effect? --Panic2k8 17:19, 8 July 2008 (BST)

The effect of dark is intended, so it's not a bug that the percentages are halved. The similar report below just hasn't been moved yet. Tangling grasp improves the percentages if you use that during your attack. If you're after changes to the dark effect, your best bet is to go to Talk:Suggestions and detail the changes you want to make. The suggestions process is complicated and full of red tape but a handful of good suggestions have been implemented. You can suggest something simple like more informative text in dark buildings or maybe something more significant like changes to how the effect works. Alternatively, just avoid buildings that suffer from the dark effect. Only a few building types are affected and they're all unimportant to survivors, all the important ones (Malls, NTs, PDs, Hospitals etc) will still contain survivors and your attack won't be affected. --  RoosterDragon  19:28, 8 July 2008 (BST)

Promotion

I've nominated you for promotion to sysop. :P Just coz I'm nice like that. If you want to accept the nomination, head for the Promotions page and say so. If you don't want to accept it, then head for the promotions page and say that as well. :P Enjoy. -- Cheese 20:19, 9 July 2008 (BST)

I must say I would've enjoyed some notice before nomination. I was thinking I might apply some time in the future, but what the heck, nought to lose! --  RoosterDragon  20:02, 10 July 2008 (BST)

Um. maybe I'm dumb. but what's a Bot?

Eactly what the headline says, what's a bot? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Firetwig (talk • contribs) 19:16, 10 July 2008 (BST).

It's an automated program that performs actions specified by its coding. They edit pages on the wiki. Basically I create them to do certain things that I can't be bothered to do myself because they're repetitive. --  RoosterDragon  20:02, 10 July 2008 (BST)

Thoughts?

on this draft? The Great Suburb Group Massacre --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:47, 11 July 2008 (BST)

Suburb/History

Hi, I was wondering if it would be possible for you to write a bot to do the Suburb/History task, for the sake of consistency in the records.--Karek^maps?! 06:12, 14 July 2008 (BST)

Special:Disambiguations

Your bot did some great work on the disambiguated locations blocks. That was taking forever by hand/was too boring to do very often. What other sort of pages in that list can be done by bots, and which ones will need to be done manually? (i.e. What can I do to help that can't be done by a bot?) --Pdeq^Talk* 00:17, 15 July 2008 (BST)

Most everything. The bot can only work if it 'knows' where the link should actually point by extracting the suburb it needs from something on the page. That limits it to locations blocks, some EMR records, maybe a few suburb pages where building links crop up in the news on occasion. Though I've not planned it to tackle anything beyond the location blocks for now, and it hasn't finished those yet, I've not run it in a while. --  RoosterDragon  17:34, 15 July 2008 (BST)

IRC

You should join us (Me, Revenant, Interloper (Grim), And occasionally Karek).

There's also #beerhah with some others (Wan, Animesucks, Etc)

nice little rooster...

• squeak* Regarding the little black rooster in your sig, just redirect the imagepage to your userpage and it'll work as a link in itself. Just watch our rat -> *squeal* -- - ^TRF 15:05, 18 July 2008 (BST)

Promotions

I regret to inform you your promotions bid has been unsuccessful. --The Grimch ^{U! E!} 20:36, 23 July 2008 (BST)

Adding Suburb pages to Mobile Phone Mast bot?

Hi Rooster,

I was looking into ways to add the current status of a suburb's Phone Mast to that suburb's information box. I started work on a template to provide a nice text description of the current status after the mast listing, but then ran up against the difficulty of extracting the current status from your list of masts by just having the suburb name, without availability of the parser functions.

What I'm wondering is if you might be willing to add functionality to your bot to update the suburb pages in the same way your Necrotech building bot does. The result could either be a human-friendly text status (my original idea) eg:

Phone Mast: Smith Towers [55, 16] Unpowered

My existing templates of Template:MalTelMastStatusText_active, Template:MalTelMastStatusText_inactive etc. could help with that.

However, coloring it in the same way you do the Necrotech buildings might work too.

For suburbs where the building name isn't linked, perhaps it could be added. All of this would just use the existing mast_coordinates line in the infobox.

What do you think? :) --Zhani 19:18, 29 August 2008 (BST)

I must re-learn wiki markup. Will attempt to consider awesomeness of your idea in the future, where I will almost certainly ask somebody with more skill to have a go at it anyway. --  RoosterDragon  21:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

External Military Report Bot working?

Is the external military report bot being ran? If so it could make it a lot easier for me to update the reports page, but it says that it hasen't been ran in over a month. Kevyn Wu 06:45, 2 September 2008 (BST)

Will resurrect bot soon, providing it will still run without destroying anything. --  RoosterDragon  21:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Ackland Mall in the MIC

From what I can tell, someone tried to combine a phone mast template with the MallStatus template (because Ackland has Havercroft's phone mast). Whatever they tried didn't work, but I don't know enough about templates to fix it. Can you provide assistance? The page in question is here. --Pedentic 21:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not even going to look at the page, it's probably been fixed/worked around. If for some bizarre it hasn't, maybe then I'll have a peek. --  RoosterDragon  21:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

It seems to have been fixed/worked around, like you've assumed. Cheers! --Pedentic 17:58, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Ninja Mode?

Still alive in your box? If you're done with Urbandead and the bots, I wouldn't mind running them.. _■^■ 22:15, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Am back from a webcomic binge to instead do some wiki-binging. Will attempt to fix/update and distribute the bots to some extent. --  RoosterDragon  21:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I take it I'd need to create separate accounts for them, If I were to run them? Also, what about having bots edit a page when run to let other instances of the same bot know not to interfere? _■^■ 04:46, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

My initial thoughts were keeping the current bots accounts, and logging the related wiki-user's account somewhere. (EG: The Update Record page that I currently used would also contain the signature of whoever ran it last) I was also thinking of a page that dealt with 'interference' by having a variable along the lines of 'InstanceRunning=True/False' and probably another page for the version of the bot (so older versions don't destroy things), whether it's allowed to run at all (for when I find the wiki-destroying error) and the last time of it's running (no need to run most of these more than once a day, really) --  RoosterDragon  12:29, 24 January 2009 (UTC)