UDWiki talk:Administration/Arbitration/Spiderzed vs Doc Ryleigh

Cobra

I joined Cobra in March. At that time there were about 7 or 8 active members who were on the boards amg regularly PKing. Unfortunately the trophy lounge has now been moved to a private forum but if someone grants you access I'm sure you will see that borne out. Sally A Summers behaved as leader of the group and was accepted as such by the active members. I use the term leader loosely, Cobra's leader is largely ceremonial and is closer to a wiki sysop than a traditional group leader, i.e. instead of giving orders the leader is more likely to be doing wiki gnome work. Most things were decided democratically with members deciding whether or not they participated. In fact, this operation http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Talk:The_Fortress#Cobra_extends_its_gratitude was suggested by me, whilst I was still a recruit.

During this time Annabell Leigh had diplomatic status granting access to the private areas of the forum but at no point did she login or, if she did, she did not post. If you look at her recent post history on Proboards you will see that, other than her posts since the "coup" her last post was in October 2010. Likewise the user Gorbius last posted on December 2nd 2009 before resuming posting post "coup." Last month http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/User:Urgggggggh (group alt Doc Mindbender,) returned to the Cobra boards after a similarly long absence. He posted a few times but did not return to the groups core activities, namely gunning down innocent survivors for giggles.

At this time there were 10 full members who were actively participating in the group and 1 recruit who was fairly inactive. It should be noted that the users mentioned above had full access to the groups board and could have engaged in a dialogue about any issues they had with the groups leadership at any time.

A few weeks ago Spidey decided that, as a fairly democratic bunch of PKing sociopaths, we should have re-evaluations for the group's leader, board administrators and moderators. The election for leader was carried out first. Sally A Summers (Spiderzed,) was re-elected unopposed. Again, I reiterate, the members cited in this arbitration had full access to the board during this process and could have put up an alternate candidate or opposed the process at any time. There was a sneak PK attack in game around this time. I don't actually care about this, it's a game, we're PKers, we can take it. It's not a big deal. What I do have an issue with is what happened next.

Annabell has apparently had access to the founder account for the board since she was leader, before she left/went long term absent. Rather than engage in dialogue she chose to abuse that to "take back" control of the group. Unfortunately the group is made up of it's members and not defined by a forum. The members recognised Spiderzed as our elected leader, not someone who had been long term absent and had not contributed to the group in over a year, so we promptly all left for new boards which we had quickly set up.

In under 24 hours the active members of Cobra had all created new accounts on the new forum and, as we are the established group, we updated our wiki page with the new URL. I believe that common sense would dictate that the people who had been playing under a particular tag, who played together, who participated on joint operations and who had voted for their choice of leader should be recognised as the group. As such I believe that Spiderzed retains the authority to edit the wiki page. Domino Harvey 23:57, 22 June 2011 (BST)

I would like address some things. First, I support Spiderzed as the recognized leader of group. Second, since Goribus misquoted me, this is what I actually said about Sage's return or a new leader, http://cobrakills.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=cc&thread=423&page=1#9022. No mention of a former leader returning. (Additionally I screenshot'd this post in case something should happen to it.) But to clarify that statement, I would think it rather obvious I would recognize Sage's return; I would not have recognized a petty attempt to steal the group by him. The members who support Spider (other than the neutral Yog)have been the ones keeping the group active. Goribus's members have either just joined or just returned. Skoll actually had the quickest time from recruit to member. We made Yog, a well established PKer spend more time as a recruit, since that has been the policy since Annabell's time or before. So, it seems obvious these new member and returning members are just to boost apparent group numbers. It comes down to a simple problem. Annabell/Goribus were not members of the group anymore, were never accepted as members, but rather just claimed ownership. We do not recognize their claim to the group. They have a forum, a forum of that only had one Cobra member, Yog. We have been and are still the face of Cobra in the game. I personally, can claim over 1 year of membership, I was the second to last member before Annabell left. By the time, Sage went AWOL, Cobra was basically me, Spiderzed and Blah. So, it's not like the old guard left under Spider, they were leaving under Annabell and Sage and were gone by that point. A final note, the one member of the old guard who stayed active during Spiderzed's leadership chose to come with us rather than with Annabell. Also, other than Yog, I don't think Sally knew a single member before they joined. I know I didn't, but as with any good group, I do now consider them my friends. --Kirsty Cotton 12:07, 23 June 2011 (BST)

Here's my rebuttal to both of you: Even if you toss out the fact that Annabell has a claim to the group, anyone that's run a PKer group with votes to determine staff for longer than five minutes knows to mass email all members so that even absentee members might return. It's pretty standard. See, that way if you can legitimately say that you contacted the group and the entire group had a chance to vote. Unless, of course, you feel that you could just sway things into your favor by calling for a vote and not notifying all members. What you did, even if you didn't intend for it to seem this way, is akin to a mutiny. Which would pretty much justify our way of thinking that the group needed to be taken back with force. So it looks like you being amateurs has come back to haunt you yet again. It kind of sucks for you, but please do keep giving me ammunition to strengthen my case. :D -- Goribus 12:51, 23 June 2011 (BST)

As for voting, the entire group is not active. Why should you get to pop up out of nowhere and have a say in a group you aren't active in? Even the wiki limits who can vote for sysop for just that reason. --Kirsty Cotton 12:57, 23 June 2011 (BST)

While there was a policy created to that effect, it was never passed. And there is no vote when it comes to promoting sysops: It's a community discussion that the 'crats evaluate at the end of the two weeks. Just saying. -- Cheese 18:52, 23 June 2011 (BST)

That's simple Kirsty: Because they're in the group. And a vote for said group effects ALL members and not just the active. See, I'm from a group that's been doing this whole election deal for years. And we kind of thought of every possible scenario including this one. So to eliminate anything negative it's become protocol to mass email our members. You'll sometimes get people you haven't seen in ages popping by, sometimes you'll get people asking for their accounts to be deleted because they don't want to be in the group, but you always get responses from the people that check their email but haven't been on in awhile. It's needed for staff votes, you'd know that if you had thought far enough ahead. But that's not you lot because what you've just told me is this: "We didn't let anyone know because fuck you if you're not active, you don't have a say." Like I said kiddies, please keep giving me ammunition to strengthen my case. -- Goribus 22:39, 23 June 2011 (BST)

Page Move

Shouldn't this arbies be moved to a subpage?--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 00:33, 23 June 2011 (BST)

It does. Domino Harvey's comment above should probably be moved as well. ~ _{01:26, 23 June 2011 (UTC)}

i moved dat shit -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 05:35, 23 June 2011 (BST)

you forgot domino's shit. move it to the talk page --User:Sexualharrison05:50, 23 June 2011 (bst)

Guys, forget this. I'm the real leader of Cobra now, you can end this arbitration.--Yonnua Koponen ^{T G P} ^^^ 22:51, 23 June 2011 (BST)

Comment

I just recently joined and then left Cobra. Mostly I left because the majority of the members RP themes didn't match the group theme. I wanted to join Cobra, not Prepubescent Anime Girls (who love Pwonies and bouncing their boobs around). Not that there is anything wrong with that, per say. Spiderzed and company were nice enough people. It's just that maybe a new group with a new theme for them would work out better for all concerned. Perhaps both factions here could agree to roll back Cobra's kill counter and Spiderzed and company could take their kills with them to their new group if that's a concern. Anyway, just my two cents.--The Baroness 22:27, 23 June 2011 (BST)

I'll talk to Annabell about it, I think that would be pretty reasonable. Also, since the real Cobra is back if you'd like to rejoin our side previous members can get back in just by requesting permission. We're a ruthless terrorist organization again, and not animu girls that love My Little Pony. We'd be happy to have you aboard, especially since you're obviously a fan of the show and of Cobra. -- Goribus 22:35, 23 June 2011 (BST)

Mistitled

This case is mistitled: should be “Spiderzed vs Doc Ryleigh”, as these are the principals involved. (Cobra is the disputed page.) Shall I fix it, or would one of you gents care to? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 23:11, 23 June 2011 (BST)