Suggestion:20070817 Vigor Mortis upgrade: 5 AP to stand

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20070817 Vigor Mortis upgrade: 5 AP to stand

SIM Core Map.png Swiers 18:12, 17 August 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type
change to existing skill

Suggestion scope
newbie zombies, survivors who buy Vigor Mortis

Suggestion description
As the title says, this suggestion would upgrade the Vigour Mortis skill to grant a bonus effect, namely reducing the cost to stand up from 10 AP to 5 AP. This would apply both when standing up as a zombie, and after being revived.

I believe this would benefit the game for the following reasons:

  • Because they typically need to spend 10 or 15 AP standing each day, starting zombies effectively only have 33-38 AP a day to play with, as opposed to the 48 AP that a starting survivor normally gets. This alone makes them less fun to play than starting survivors. On top of that, they can do very little with those limited APs, as their skills are week and they pay double AP to move. The proposed upgrade would give them 5 more AP a day to play with, and let them buy truely useful skills at a lower level, rather than having to rush to buy Ankle Grab.
  • Experienced zombies and survivors (those with enough XP to buy Ankle Grab) gain absolutely nothing.
  • Low level survivor characters would be able to purchase Vigour Mortis and gain the benefit. This is similar to how survivors benefit from Ankle Grab, but costs fewer XP's than aquiring Ankle Grab.
  • If survivors buy this skill, they might actually be able to earn XPs as a zombie when dead; without at least the attack boost of Vigour Mortis, that is a frustrating effort at best.

In short, this suggestion is intended to make the game slightly easier for newly created zombies, low level survivors, and players who wish to explore dual nature play, while providing no boost to more experienced characters.


Voting Section

Voting Rules
Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped.
# justification ~~~~

Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.


Keep Votes

  1. Keep Yep. Nice.--Seventythree 18:14, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  2. Keep - Need More AP! More! More! More! --Brainz 18:17, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  3. Keep author's vote. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 18:23, 17 August 2007 (BST)
    fort creedy has been informed of this attemt at unbalancing the game zhodani 5:13 pm (PST) 8/18/07 p.s. if im acting to crazy tell me and i'll mellow out Non author RE.--Karekmaps?! 03:54, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  4. Keep - Anything to help the newbie Zambah. --The Grimch Mod-U! 19:15, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  5. Keep Its good, it helps survivors and zombies, and produces a more enjoyable game without disrupting the balance.--Thekooks 19:52, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  6. Keep - love it!--'BPTmz 20:08, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  7. Keep - Eh.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 20:12, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  8. Keep - Ow --~~~~T''' 20:17, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  9. Keep - Sensible.--Insomniac By Choice 20:21, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  10. Keep Yup. --Secruss 20:22, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  11. Keep - Not like headshot does anything more than piss people off anyway.--Karekmaps?! 21:34, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  12. Keep - Good enough. --Midianian 21:35, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  13. Keep - Would've made being a starting zambah less irritation for me. --Animi 22:01, 17 August 2007 (BST)
  14. Keep - Nice and balanced --Ducis DuxSlothTalk 00:27, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  15. Keep - A suggestion which helps the newcomers and doesn't hurt the rest of us. -- Pavluk 02:31, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  16. Keep - To all the naysayers: This doesn't nerf headshot! The only time it would weaken headshot is when you are in active combat. If you headshot a zombie in active combat, and then just stand there while it gets back up (if it even has enough AP left to get up), you're just asking to get your brain eaten. --Steakfish 02:54, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  17. Keep - Helpin a /b/rother out is good. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 06:08, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  18. Keep - It helps the newcomers. Enough said. Sig Sauer.jpg P02 Samuel  Talk to me! Stop that asshole!PoleCatsSig Sauer.jpg 10:23, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  19. Keep - This would really help out new players, yet not unbalance the existing hordes. Nice! --Karloth Vois RR 12:14, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  20. Keep - As everyone else. --Vortexx 14:41, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  21. Keep - Everyone, think of the zambah children! --Aeon17x 16:10, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  22. Keep - Less pain for newbie zombies! -- John RubinT! ZG FER 20:17, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  23. Keep - This will definitely help low level zeds. Edit: So just to get this straight - Vigor Mortis would reduce standing up by 5 AP. And then Ankle Grab would reduce standing up by a further 5 AP. Am I right? -- Mordac the Refuser 23:19, 18 August 2007 (BST)
    Close. The written effect is that the cost is CHANGED to 5 AP by Vigor Mortis, and CHANGED to 1 AP by Ankle Grab. So if you buy Ankle Grab before Vigour Mortis, you get to stand for 1 AP as soon as you buy Ankle Grab, and Vigour Mortis would just give you the attack boosts. And if you buy V.M. first, it goes from 5 AP to 1 AP when you buy A.G., which is a reduction of 4 AP, not 5. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 01:49, 19 August 2007 (BST)
  24. Keep - a good balance, helping out the newbies (and we know how weak new zombies are), and not harming the survivors (the 5AP extra might equate in one more claw hit, but nothing that seriously changes the balance). Me like. Charon Xeno 19:43, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  25. Keep - Yes. Playing a lowbie zombie is pretty much the worst thing ever. --Druuuuu 19:02, 22 August 2007 (BST)
  26. Keepish Yeah, i got head shotted before I got vigor mortis... But rise it a bit... like mabey 7, not 5.
  27. Keeper - Helps noobs, doesn't nerf headshot. BoboTalkClown 20:25, 24 August 2007 (BST)


Kill Votes

  1. Kill-No!The whole point of headshoot is to keep swarms of little annoying low level Zeds off you! How about Instead , you give them regular XP for killing other zombies, instead of halved., Or reduce the ap for moving to 3 AP per 2 blocks> Stevejobsfan--
  2. Hmmm... I'm sort of ambivalent about this one. On the one hand, I'm all for assisting new players, and I'm grateful that you considered us dual nature people. On the other, not only are you boosting the already nigh-required Vigour Mortis, you're reducing Ankle Grab's power. What of those more economically minded zombies who went for Ankle Grab first? I'd recommend changing it so that Lurching Gait received the AP cost lowering instead. Good idea though, and if you changed it thus, I'd vote Keep. Kalir FTW! Z/S UD Potato Words 21:16, 17 August 2007 (BST)
    Lurching gait is already the single best AP saving skill there is. One AP saved per block moved can easily average out to 10 or even 15 AP saved per day- . Most folks who buy lurching gait as their first zombie skill are Mrh cows looking to save AP on the way to the revive point- exactly the behavior this aims to provide an alternative to. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 21:56, 17 August 2007 (BST)
    You have a point. Still, it doesn't seem quite right to me. Ankle Grab has a pre-requisite to it, but is less effective than a tier 1 skill that has five child skills linked to it. Maybe there's some other place one could find that balancing point, but I just don't know where right now. Kalir FTW! Z/S UD Potato Words 01:07, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  3. Kill-You do know this would completely negate the effects of headshot, right? This would considerably overpower it. That would mean at max, a zombie would stand up for the regular 10 AP. This would be annoying to survivors and any zombie hunters out there. If you want to stand up for less, buy ankle grab. I this would not really benefit people being revived, because if your a survivor, wouldn't you just buy ankle grab and lurching gait instead of a zombie combat skill? --ToastrlordT TSA 22:31, 17 August 2007 (BST)
    Just to be clear, you are asserting that a brand new player who's character lacks the skills to do any substantial damage (they can't even kill a full health survivor in one day) and can barely move (2 AP per move) should loose 30% of their AP almost daily to normal standup cost plus headshot? Yes? And you do realize that the REAL threats (those level 20+ brain crunchers who have been playing for over a year and work as a group) hardly suffer at all from head shots, and won't get any gain from this, right? SIM Core Map.png Swiers 03:23, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  4. Kill I realize Im in the minority on this one, but I must make my voice heard. While I respect the authors attempt to assist new players, this suggesstion is just too overpowered. It completely elimintates the effectiveness of headshot. While I agree that low level zombies dont stand much of a chance of killing a full-health survivor, one of the most powerful things zombies can do is occupy buildings, rendering them unable to be barricaded. This skill simply makes it too easy for a killed and dumped zombie to simply stand up, and walk back inside a building. They would suffer hardly any penalty for death, which is what headshot was designed to do-give zombies some sort of penalty for dying. This completely throws off that balance.--Dr Doom86 07:01, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  5. Kill - Basically diffuses the effect of Headshot. The level 1's should earn their resistance to that. Would also make Zombie Zergers more effective by removing the need to spend any XP in order to completely ignore Headshot right out of the gate. Yay, every zombie zerger who starts a new character as a corpse gets automatic immunity to Headshot and an additional 5 AP to cheat with each. No. --Sara M 09:21, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  6. Kill - Just like I say with most newbie survivor boosts... leveling up for a start is supposed to be a challenge The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 10:22 18 August 2007 (BST)
  7. Kill - A bit too powerful for me.I would be more interested in a weaker upgrade. Completely negate Headshot is too strong.You should make the buff weaker(2 or 3 extra AP is good enough for me).--Perne 10:54, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  8. Kill - Survivors have paid for headshot to keep down zombies, keep it like that. --MarieThe Grove on Tour 13:03, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  9. Kill - Heashot is here to slow down zombies. Do you really want to "oil" the zombie advance?--  Savant  Chit-Chat  13:19, 18 August 2007 (BST)
    At low levels, yes, I really do. But I could probably get behind something that slows advancement for higher level zombies. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 16:36, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  10. Kill - No. --The Hierophant 23:23, 18 August 2007 (BST)
  11. Kill - i could just see a army of zombie zergs right now. there would be one way to have this work though have all survivors star with head shot and then have a more advanced one avalable at lvl 5 keep them down for 15 ap make that change and all survivors would vote yes all the zombies seams to be voting in unison with no regard for game balance u guys make me sick >=P zhodani 4:40 pm (PST) 8/18/07
  12. Kill - Like they asid it would totally negate the effects of headshot. I might have voted differently if Vigour Mortis lowered the stand up AP to 8 that way Headshot would still be as effective.User:LostKamper 11:36 am (PST) 8/19/07
  13. Kill - It's SUPPOSED to be hard playing a new zombie. Being a new zombie, you level up faster than pretty much any survivor, never need to waste time getting revived, so to balance that out: Massive start-up AP penalties. If you work it out mathematically, it comes out to a balance as is. Nalikill 15:41, 19 August 2007 (BST)
    Care to test that theory as to who levels faster? You spawn a new zombie and post the profile; I'll spawn a new private, fireman, or NT lab assistant (that covers all three civilian skill sets, you can choose which I play) and post the profile. We shall see how long it takes us each to earn 500 XPs.
    In a group, MAYBE the zombie would, but this suggestion in fact makes things easier for ferlas and a bit LESS easy for new zombies in groups. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 18:12, 19 August 2007 (BST)
  14. Kill - New zombies are faced with a choice: speed or power? Don't mess with that. --WanYao 01:29, 25 August 2007 (BST)
  15. Kill - As with Dr Doom, above. --Private Mark 17:17, 25 August 2007 (BST)
    Kill - No. Unsigned Vote--Karekmaps?! 03:54, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  16. Kill - I don't see a need for this. --8 Bucks 20:39, 27 August 2007 (BST)
  17. Kill - Same as above. --Abi79 AB 16:59, 31 August 2007 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

  1. Spam -Well, with ankle grab, this is just to weird. Plus, why not just reduce the stand-up cost to 5AP? Becuase that would buff dead/revived survivors? If you think dying as a zombie is hard try dying as a mrh? cow. No n00b survivor will ever keep playing if they die on their first day. (well, actually, I kept playing the second time, but that's probably pretty rare.) --AlexanderRM 23:36, 19 August 2007 (BST)
  2. Spam - Already in game. Hellooooo000, ankle grab?! Vkkhamul 01:35, 25 August 2007 (BST)
  3. Spam What do you call "Ankle Grab", then? And with this, what is headshot? A way to make zeddies pay the NORMAL stand-up cost? --Driaquer 04:47, 29 August 2007 (BST)
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