Talk:Melee Weapons

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Fencing Foils

Schoolfencingfoil.png

Is this a new addition, or has it been like this from the start? --DTPraise KnowledgePK 03:37, 8 August 2009 (BST)

Fuel Can Emptyage

Like I did with pool cues earlier, I'm going to start researching what's the chance of emptying a fuel can. I'm also going to record the ratio of "sloshing" hits to "splashing" hits. If anyone feels they have too many fuel cans, start beating others with them and post your findings here. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 21:31, 5 June 2008 (BST)

Here's my data so far, along with (preliminary) odds. I might dedicate an alt to getting fuel and splashing people for a while. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 05:37, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
AP Spent Hits Splashes Empties Date User
13 3 1 1 05:37, 6 November 2008 (UTC) Revenant
50 12 7 2 05:37, 6 November 2008 (UTC) Revenant
40 7 2 1 07:24, 7 November 2008 (UTC) Revenant
49 14 4 1 07:24, 7 November 2008 (UTC) Revenant
Total AP Hit % Splash % Empty % (Preliminary odds only)
152 ~23.7% ~38.8% ~11.1%
Just to make it clear, hits are a percentage of AP, soaks and empties are a percentage of hits. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 07:24, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Well, I didn't record the total AP used, or the dates. Anyway, here's my data so far: 18 cans emptied, 45 sloshing hits, 15 splashes and 14 soaks (74 hits total). This would put the odds from my data at: ~24.3% to empty and ~39.2% to get the target fueled. I haven't done this in a while but I think I'll start again. --Midianian Big Brother Diary Room: [522,21] 22:15, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Bit of a Rewrite

In the interest of keeping this a neutral article, I rewrote many of the statements about "best" and "useless" to be more objective. I do agree with many of those statements, but I felt this article should be more descriptive rather than prescriptive. One of the other changes was in removing some of the statements under fencing foil. To the uninitiated, these statements implied there is a way to sharpen fencing foils in game. --FrozenFlame 21:16, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Opinion on Knife

Note: Too lazy to check if this has been mentioned before. (At least I'm honest.)

I carry a knife with me for one use & one use alone.

FAK Duty in the mall.

If I need to use my time effectively, and I run out of wounded, I cut someone I just healed, then slap another bandaid on them. They don't care. (Unrealistic, but effective, and more accurate than a punch.)

Shank! Here. Have a Band-aid and a Lollypop. (Heh heh!)

Bubacxo 11:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

That's only useful if goal is XP --~~~~ [talk] 13:43, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I call it "taking a blood sample". Its actually altruistic if you do it to the zombies at a revive point, because you might cure an infection before they get revived, which helps the person who you cut- or prevents them from parachuting! SIM Core Map.png Swiers 16:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I call it stabbing >:D. Stabbity stab! --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 17:50, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Seb, infection is cured with applying the FAK even if the specimen (zombie in this case) is on full health. Knife stab isn't needed --~~~~ [talk] 17:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Then obviously you're doing it wrong Duke. Everything needs to be stabbed at least twice. Stabby stabby stabstabstab.--Karekmaps?! 18:41, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Duke- that may be, but you waste an Ap if you apply a FAK to somebody who is both unwounded and has no infection. There;s no way to tell if a zombie is wounded, so you might as well stab them first to be sure you don;t waste an AP and do get XP. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 19:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Stabbing with the knife WILL be an AP waste, and XP isn't the goal for a player anymore --~~~~ [talk] 21:14, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Knives are also occasionally useful to conserve ammo. A zombie with a flak jacket but no bodybuilding has 2 hp left after 12 pistol shots, at which point a knife stab kills as well as a bullet (with slightly worse accuracy, but no ammo cost)-Mike the Shoe 02:59, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

"At a Glance"

What do all the Nrrhs and Rah!s mean? I'd think that Rah means it's good and Nrrh means bad, but the Axe got a Nrrh while the Baseball bat got a Rah. I'm confused. Ponda Baba 02:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Nrrh means "No" in zombish. Rah means yes / good. Zombies have the option to use certain weapons (blunt ones) - for example, they can use a baseball bat, but not an axe. Its not really useful information though, as a zombies is always better off with claws or bits, as they get no skill bonus when using weapons. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 04:19, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
And it is confusing. --BoboTalkClown 19:02, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Pool Cue Breakage

Did you know that if we ignore the breakage, the pool cue is better than the knife until you get knife combat? It's largely underappreciated currently and this could be because of "The Pool Cue splinters and breaks after a few uses". That seems to be highly inaccurate. I've started collecting data on how often a pool cue breaks. Currently I've hit 23 times and I've broken only three cues. It looks like around 13% chance for breaking, but this is from a very small pool of data. I'm going to continue collecting data on this to at least a couple of hundred tries and also collect data for find chances in Arms. If anyone is interested in helping, go grab a cue from your nearest Arms or Sports Store and go bash some zombie heads! ...or survivor heads, I don't care. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 10:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'm through with pool cues. 800 lit searches in a pub yielded 23 cues (a bit below 3%) and 123 hits resulted in 27 breakages (~20%). Not all that accurate figures, but better than "?%" and "after a few uses". --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 18:01, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Why the hell i don't see any of those 800 searches where they are due to?! --~~~~ [talk] 20:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Because I was about halfway through when I realized that maybe I should put them somewhere on the wiki, the table doesn't have a "pool cue" column, I was lazy and not interested in counting any of the other items. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 20:56, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Because of reasons like these the project is so slow. i cannot search all places and keep all pages updated all by myself... --~~~~ [talk] 21:08, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
You didn't really lose anything. If I would've had to count the other items I probably wouldn't have bothered with the search rate at all. I would've just concentrated on the breakage percentage as that was the point of my research. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 21:21, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Hit Rates

The hit rates in this game suck...ok, I understand fear and all that, but really, if im close enough to stab a zombie with a knife, I wouldnt miss 80% of the time. The gun hit rates for non-training also suck, im sure even a civilian with no training would be able to hit more than 5% of his shots. Maybe we could up the rates? Because my Consumer cant even hit enough to get 100 EXP for training. --CamDemon 8:20 PM, September 17 2007.

Don't complain. First of all, with the knife. A knife is an EXTREMELY short range weapon. You have to get up close and personal with that zombie. Don't forget that the zombie is probably trying to eat your brain. Wouldn't you miss "80% of the time?" Second, have you ever shot a pistol or a shotgun? It's very different from using a rifle. A pistol has decent weight, and a short barrel. You don't have a stock to rest against your shoulder, which, along with the weight, makes the gun rather unsteady. Also, a survivor might try to fire one-handed, or from the hip. That person isn't going to hit that often. With a shotgun, you have to deal with the kick. It's surprisingly powerful to someone who hasn't fired a shotgun before. If the survivor expects the kick, they might suffer from "Magnum-flinch," which is caused by the reputation of a gun making the user flinch in expectation. So there you have it, why "the hit rates in this game suck." Ponda Baba 02:47, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
And every "hit" doesn't nessecearaly damage the zombie. --BoboTalkClown 19:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

New Unarmed Attacks Page

I think that ' Headbutting' and 'Fist' should be moved to a new page for Unarmed attacks, which could also have the other Zombie attacks (bite and claws) on it. These aren't Melée weapons and so shouldn't be put here, plus they are kinda the exceptions to the Items category linking to this page for Melée weapons. Unless there are any objections then I'll do this in about a week or so... --xensyriaT 11:28, 25 August 2007 (BST)

I've now made the Unarmed Attacks article. Please leave any feedback on that talk page. Thanks! --xensyriaT 14:10, 15 September 2007 (BST)

Searching, percentages/odds and item locations?

Someone really needs to finish these items pages and fill in the locations and search odds for different locations. Even estimates are fine... This is pretty critical information, you know... And see all kinds of question marks or empty headings is very frustrating, and it's very sloppy and unprofessional... So, maybe instead of all the politicking, and the wiki-lawyering over minor NPOV infractions, maybe people could be working on that? I'm serious, it's VERY BAD for it to be like it is... --WanYao 18:19, 8 August 2007 (BST)

Well...you could always do it you know. All you have to do is search for a item a few hundred times and calculate the percentages from the number of times an item is found. But even then, the number would be a simple estimate, seeing as how the RNG is more fickle than Lady Luck herself!-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 18:25, 8 August 2007 (BST)

Crowbars

Crowbars already have double-chance to hit against barricades (and have since day one of barricading), if people hadn't realised this. --Kevan 14:07, 10 Nov 2005 (GMT) - quoted from [Pry Barricades] - Relevant quote and page will be removed eventually. --Squashua 04:26, 19 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Has Kevan ever actually tried breaking barricades with a crowbar as a zombie? Because this is absolutely hilarious for him to say. I dare anyone to go stand in front of a lightly barricaded building with full AP and try to break down a barricade with just a crow bar. It's like a five percent hit chance, I swear to you.--Insomniac By Choice 10:39, 21 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Report it as a bug, don't be sarcastic about it here. Also, dissing Kevan is not a good idea, as he designed this game, and as such, is a really cool guy who knows what he's doing. And read the Barricades page to find out that the usual chance to damage barricades is 20% no matter what weapon or skills you have. --LouisB3 02:55, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)
From the bugs page: "It's survivor-only, was unintentionally misleading that the zombies also get the "try to loosen" message. They don't any more. --Kevan" --Dickie Fux 21:38, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Does anyone know whether reliable statistics have been collected on barricade destruction? My impression from what I've read is that crowbars actually are useless: The most popular opinion seems to be that all attacks except crowbars, bites, and firearms have half their normal chance to hit; bites and firearms are completely ineffective on barricades, and crowbars have their full normal chance to hit. But crowbars have half the normal to-hit percentage of axes, so if popular opinion is correct they would be equal. --Dan 19:33, 13 May 2006 (BST)

Just from personal experience, I've found axes to be more effective than crowbars when it comes to dismantling barricades. Of course, that might be just the RNG, but I've been doing it for a couple week nows and the axe definitely seems superior. SmartyMart 19:40, 7 June 2006 (BST)

I've tried using the crowbar lots and lots of times, and it really does not seem better at all... in fact worse than a fireaxe. Either i have REALLY bad luck or this isn't working right. I must've spent over 300 AP on my characters trying to see the crowbar's alleged usefulness. TheJooJ 23:37, 27 June 2006 (PST)

I've reported the bug as best i know how, any additional discussion should probably be done there to give the issue more weight. [Crowbars: They Don't Work.] TheJooJ 13:13, 15 July 2006 (PST)

Real damage

What is "real damage", and why is it different than any other damage stat? It might be a good idea to cut down on the number of stats on this page; they seem excessive to me. --LouisB3 02:11, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Edit: Removed real damage, since apparently no one knows. --LouisB3 14:58, 13 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Real damage is the actual chance you have, rather then the statistical one. Just because you should statistically hit something 40% of the time doesn't mean that you actually hit it 40% of the time. Next time try the forums before you edit. --Velkrin 16:30, 17 Nov 2005 (EST)

Many of us Wikizens aren't forumites. Tell us what your stats mean, don't tell us to find out. It's not like the wiki has space issues. Also, preferrably, tell us how "real damage" is computed... -- Odd Starter 00:43, 18 Nov 2005 (GMT)
I agree entirely with Odd on this one. And we still don't know what "real damage" actually is. --LouisB3 01:11, 18 Nov 2005 (GMT)
As I said, the 'real damage' is how much damage you're actually likely to do. Say you have a 50% chance to hit and you attack 10 times. Statistically you should hit at least 5 of those times, in reality you'd probably hit about 3 times. They arn't my stats so I could be wrong. --Velkin
Okay - how do we compute these? -- Odd Starter 05:44, 18 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Sorry, but a 50% chance is a 50% chance is a 50% chance. About half the time one hits more than 50% of the time; the other about-half, below 50%. They average. (I don't know how else to explain it; these things seem to me like they're fundamentally how statistics function!) --LouisB3 01:23, 18 Nov 2005 (GMT)
This whole "real damage" thing is surreal. Like some sort of voodoo statistics. Until you can explain it please dont put it back in.--Zaruthustra 03:23, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Haha, voodoo statistics. - KingRaptor 15:30, 23 Nov 2005 (GMT)
This is Statistics 101 stuff, percentages are actually decimals. 50% = .5 so you multiply .5 by the number of tries, in this case 10, and you get 5. That means you will probably hit 5 times. The probability follows a bell curve since we're working with a random number generator, with the center being at 5 hits. The information is useful for deciding which weapons are going to do the most damage on average, but having the average damage per 5 attacks as well is redundant. --Wfjeff 18:02, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Not sure if this the correct place but... I just spent 34 AP attacking a zombie with an ax @ 40% probability and did not hit the zed once. Not even once. What gives with that? I know that there is a bit of deviation in the percentages however 34 swings and not one hit is a bit hard to swallow. - Snobtaper 11/27/06

Odds are that you won't even read this, but others may have the same doubt. It's probably a zombie that one of your alts wounded before. See Multi abuse#Implemented_Anti-Abuse_Countermeasures. Lomd 17:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Other weapons?

How about other weapons? Swords? Spears? Stuff like that? You know, lots of people in the US have swords and such. And they should be much better zombie killers.

But the weapons are VERY weak. I mean, I can understand the difficulty of killing a zombie with a blunt instrument or a simple knife, but mate, a large blade such as a sword or axe should cleave right through- and against slow moving zombies, a headshot would be easy. I mean, even in the movies they killed zombies much easier, and they were just civilians! I suggest you double, at least, the damage done by bladed weapons (or even better, triple it and double the damage done by blunt weapons- they're not THAT useless...). It's really unfair for the survivors.

And handguns are actually not as good zombiekillers unless it's a headshot! And it's much easier to swing something and hit the head than hit the head (at least if not in point blank) with a gun...

And of course apart from that, either way the skill ratings are LOW... I mean... 25%? 40%? The higher is 50%? I'm practicing swordsmanship and I'm just a beginner, but I can easily hit my opponent when he's unarmed! And he's got to be fast and lucky to avoid even a few hits! Try it, mates... Sometimes realism doesn't hurt!

P.S: Don't just put a katana as the sole representative for swords... there's also lots of stuff from the West... longswords, bastard swords etc.

P.S.2: Not even machetes guys?

P.S.3: This is not mean to diss anyone, just a suggestion to make the game better and more balanced.

How do we know the "survivors" are even human? Plus, you should see some of the "realism" ideas on the humorous suggestions page. That, and the encumbrance nerf, prove that a little realism CAN hurt. --AlexanderRM 9:55 PM, 17 March 2007 (EST)


Medieval-style weapons would be nice, but in a respectable town like Malton represents, they'd be hard to come by in most areas. Honest-to-God swords are rarely sold in anything other than generic blade shops, and a few shops in malls. Now, machetes and hand axes would be a little easier to find due to them being sold in sporting goods stores.

Also, think about how many people actively practice swordsmanship any more; why build on an "archaic" and "useless" skill when you could learn how to handle a firearm? To the general population, swordplay is little more than a novelty. They won't know how to use a longsword effectively when they pick it up, much less a bastard sword, two-hander or a spear. --Andromai 06:16, 8 May 2007 (BST)

Swords, spears, maces and other medieval weapons should be found inside museums. Since they are artifacts they should have a prefix "Rusty" or "Ancient" in the names. That means they can crumble easily after a number of attacks since its very old but can still infict massive damage.--Loosermass 05:02, 21 October 2007 (BST)

An old discussion, but I would like to put in my two cents. The human skull is one of the tougher surfaces in nature, and therefore so would a zeds. Exceeding force would be needed to dent, let alone fracture, it. And let's not forget the head moves. It is agressivly trying to sup on your flesh, after all. Furthermore, who says they have the same vulnerable areas as a human? Slugging a guy in the chest with a corwbar could crack a rib, and put him down. A zed probably woulden't even feel it. Or take the fireaxe. Its large and unwieldy, and a miss would put you off balance, leaving you open to the joy of barhah. Furthermore, a stroke could glance off the skull instead of smashing their skull in. Your best bet would be a moderated swing into the temple from the side, which requires space to do. There are simply far too many factors to make clean lethal hits most of the time, especially in such stressful circumstances. Corpulent Meatsack 23:34, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Fire Axes

I know that fire axes are allready the greatest melee in the game, but crowbars are designed to open crates, not barricades! A fire axe is designed to hack through doors and things, fire axes should really be the ones to have the attacking-barricades bounus.


I don't know who these "many" people are who prefer fire axes. It may be a good weapon in theory, but in practice, I can't even remember the last time somebody attacked any of my characters with an ax. And I tend to get my guys killed a lot, some of them twice a day. --S.Wiers X:00 20:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

What are all these weapons?

The mele weapons page seems to have been filled with useless mele weapons that I have never heard of, along with pictures of some of the weapons. do those even exist? Plus, I really don't think you should have those pictures on there- I consider it an "imagination nerf", and think people should be allowed to think the weapons look like whatever they want. --AlexanderRM 10:00 PM, 17 March 2007 (EST)

Yes, they do exist. I have found those weapons in the mall. --Cap'n Silly T/W/P/CAussieflag.JPG 02:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Well if they do... why haven't they been mentioned on the updates page, and what's the point of them anyway? --AlexanderRM 10:05 PM, 17 March 2007 (EST)

The points flavor, and Keven doens't mention every update. People don't need to know if he's changed one peice of text each time, also it provides people incentive to search more, and thus theres more interest in the game. - JedazΣT MC ΞD CT SR 06:21, 8 May 2007 (GMT)
I agree with Jedaz. He doesn't need to hold our hands and tell us everytime something changes. What I hope he ends up doing is giving each of the new weapons their own differences. Yes they do vary in damage, and the pool stick does break after a few hits, but if you haven't noticed yet, they all have pretty much the same accuracy. It kinda defeats the point of going for the new weapons, other than RP purposes. Maybe make some new skills that modify the existing stats for them? I don't know, I guess I'm just complaining at the speed Kevan works. He's probably already working on sorting this small issue out anyway. But seriously, the new weapons definately are a great new thing, especially(spelled right?) the fencing foil.Suicidalangel T 3:12 May 11, 2007(GMT -05:00)

My ZU alts have actually been attacked (but not killed) with most of those weapons. The cricket bat's user was actually pretty high level, and was evidently (from his description and clothing) quite into the whole "soccer holigan" role play thing. 21:08, 18 June 2007 (BST)

Images for Hockey Stick and Golf Club

Okay, that is quite possibly the worst picture of a hockey stick ever. It should be changed. Also, there isn't a picture at all for the golf club. I would fix these myself, but I am lazy and my pictures wouldn't file under GNU copyrights. --Michaelbogardus 02:34, 14 May 2007 (BST)

Headbutt

I'm wearing a gas mask and headbutt gives me 30% accuracy at 3 damage. I've got all zombie skills except brain rot. Anybody else tried this? What's your stats? --Toejam 15:08, 15 June 2007 (BST)

To be honest, when I first saw the new entry of headbutt under zombie attacks I thought some vandal had been messing around! I've not had chance to try this, although it sounds like good fun. Having Brainrot will make finding a gas mask rather difficult... The Mad Axeman 15:21, 15 June 2007 (BST)
Same here, I had no idea what was happening. I thought: "WTF? Kevan got rid of Bite? That's the last straw!!!". Turned out OK in the end. --Secruss 00:58, 29 June 2007 (BST)

On an unrelated note, the picture was taken from the Wikipedia entry on headbutt. I'll ask Kevan to supply the revelant data on hit rates. --User:Axe27/Sig 20:43, 17 June 2007 (BST)

wtf...

...is with the mrh? column in the table at the bottom of the page?--xoxo 06:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

much better.--xoxo 07:18, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

It's a tree!

oh, man.... you can attack with your plastic tree. I am not gonna actually try it, because I'm out of AP, but it says I can. should this be added?--Destor 17:25, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You swing the tree into the zombie for 2 damage. They drop to 42 HP.
That was a dead fir tree. Same hit-chance and damage as toolbox. Not sure if it should be added to the page, though. I mean, it's only temporary. --Midianian|T|DS|C:RCS| 18:06, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Schools again

[1] -> my alt finding golf club [2] -> ski pole

Police Baton

where are the police batons? all of these PDs in Malton and no batons? no handcuffs? no stun guns? i understand no rifles, but it would be realistic to shoot zombies from tall buildings with rifles. but there should've been police batons in the game from the start. and stun guns should be used (1 AP) to stun survivors...make them fall, lose 1 HP & stand for 1 AP (still as a survivor). i had more ideas but forgot 'em. Son of Sin 02:44, 23 October 2011 (BST)

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