User talk:Akule

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Akule

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	OH NO YOU DINT
	Because of two arbitration verdicts, the user The Fifth Horseman and Max Grivas are totally not allowed to post on or edit this page under any circumstances and user Grim s cannot post on this page in a non-official manner.

Please post new topics at the bottom of the page. Thanks!

The Daily Spotlight

I've added you as a senior corespondent. Think you can come up with some sort of graphical template/interface like you got on Akule News?--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 20:25, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

You mean the tables or better versions of my title and my "seal"?--Akule ^{School's in session.} 15:26, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

looks good. you should hop on gmail--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 17:24, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I think a graphic instead of a text title would be better. Probably two spotlights to the right and left of the title, shining onto it. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 17:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah, ya beat me to it. Oh well, atleast the better layouteer won, my attempt was too feeble I didn't even save the coding. Oh, Anime, did you get the E-mail from my Kolumbus account? --Normal Phobic^C 17:25, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm a dirty code stealer and tweaker. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 17:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

If you're dirty, I'm absolutely filthy. I was doing some twisted hybrid of of user page like mine, but only Spotlight themed. It did not look good... The time of these responses is allmost like a laggy messenger chat.--Normal Phobic^C 17:29, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

We can make some nice graphics for user-pages. I'd just need some time in front of photoshop. As for the press page, I basically took Akule News's code and modified it for how Anime had the news page setup. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 17:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I changed the color scheme, close to your specifications. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 17:41, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

*Claps loudly* Hahahahaa heee! Me likey!--Normal Phobic^C 17:41, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Now all I have to do is talk with my "graphics consultant" and see if I can cobble together a graphical title instead of just the text. In the meantime, it will serve. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 17:44, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking something like this type of spotlight and positioned similar to this (but on the right and left) or we could try this. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 17:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I personally like the first one(Got a soft spot for black and white), but we should let AS have a say. --Normal Phobic^C 18:03, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

It fits in with the theme very nicely. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 18:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've changed the title colour to red, if you, AS, don't like it, we can go back to white

Copyright Tax

Discussion on Slashdot. Though you might like it. --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[cloned] [mod]} 03:12, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll read it over. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 16:03, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

a question

... for you here --~~~~ [talk] 17:27, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Another question

I was thinking about the wiki's policy proposals, and it's generally easy to forbid things that are clearly bad, and easy to allow things that are clearly good, but it's much harder to make rules for the grey areas in between. Now what I was wondering is how (in your experience) do real world laws deal with grey areas? Do they tend to pick an arbitrary line and say one side of the line is legal and one side is not? Or do they tend to do something else, like for example I've heard "I know it when I see it" when it comes to obscenity? Or maybe there is no consistent pattern at all? I'm not really looking for a 'right' answer, I'm just curious about how people more knowledgeable than me deal with this sort of stuff. --Toejam 15:14, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Usually what happens is a line is drawn. Everything on one side is legal and everything on the other is illegal. Then lawyers get paid to try and move the line one way or another. Usually various cases develop and other things that crop up might not have been considered during that time, and the line has to be re-drawn. So many factors can appear in various cases that lines are often redrawn all the time. The law is an interesting organic process; a living breathing thing that is subjective on each and every case. I love it. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 15:41, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

	A FREE COOKIE
	Toejam has given Akule a cookie for the cheapest legal information ever.

Zerg accusations

I think the gentleman from CDF means by two characters in the same area me rotating my characters which is wrong. I was accused of zerging because I have 5 characters, 1 of which I don't use...evar. So I have 4 which I use. I rotate which ones I use. One day I'll log in as Sonny in Ridleybank and Anthony in Penny Heights. The next day I'll log in as Canderous in Pitneybank and Fidel in Darvall Heights. I can only imagine that the gentleman from CDF took the term "rotate" as me moving my characters into a suburb each day and moving them out...which I don't do. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 03:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah. For something as big as he has made it on here, I would have expected some sort of tangible proof of zerging, rather than just an argument about how you use multiple characters and that is somehow zerging. He should read the FAQ entry on multiple characters. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 16:02, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Well then the...gentleman from DORIS/DEM/whichever groups his other alts joined should make that clearer on his wiki page. --TerminalFailure 21:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Sysop Promotion

I have put your name up for promotion to sysop if you haven't already seen it. You are doing better than I thought you would. You should head over to accept or deny the promotion.--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 21:10, 1 April 2008 (BST)

Oh? I didn't see anything in the news. I guess I'll head over to the promotions page and check it out. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 21:17, 1 April 2008 (BST)

Strange as it may seem , I think you'll make a good sysop. Good luck with it!--Seventythree^Talk 16:10, 4 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am pleased that the biggest complaint that people have against me is that I am not active enough on the wiki. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 20:12, 6 April 2008 (BST)

Please weigh in on this

The goons harassment of me on the wiki has gone far enough... please weigh in on this... I would greatly appreciate it... http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/User_talk:Boxy

--Marty Banks (aka. Mundane) <DHPD> 00:24, 15 April 2008 (BST)

PS: I actually hold ownership those images on the SeaHouse Realty website... Not legally, but being my father's son... for all intensive purposes that makes me an owner... that and I'm part owner *shrugs* --Marty Banks (aka. Mundane) <DHPD> 05:09, 16 April 2008 (BST)

Are you implying that the content of SeaHouse Realty's website is your property simply because your dad is an employee of that company? Also, could you please elaborate on your stake in the company since you don't appear on their Staff page? Kid sinister 20:35, 16 April 2008 (BST)

If you have permission to use the picture in your image, then you have a far better case. Regardless, I would post it on the A/VB and mention the precedent and the request to have it stop. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 01:29, 22 April 2008 (BST)

Group creation

hi its grahame3 could you create my group page plz and call it the undead 300 plz? --Grahame3 14:22, 8 May 2008 (BST)

Sure. Undead 300. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 23:58, 8 May 2008 (BST)

GROUP HELP

thanks akule, but my group does not show up in the groups page, am i just being stupid? --Grahame3 00:47, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Oh, it just needs a category tag. I'll put it in. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 04:01, 10 May 2008 (BST)

thanks again akule, i think i got the hang of it, however one more question, cnt seem to get picture on my group box, i know you need to put the code or something in but im a bit stuck, oh nice profile by the way! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Grahame3 (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Oh, that's pretty easy. Let me see if you have uploaded it. If you have, I can put it in. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 22:06, 13 May 2008 (BST)

would i be able to send you the image by email then could you put it in for me please, everytime i put the image name in the group box it just comes up with the image name but no pic--Grahame3 01:44, 14 May 2008 (BST)

no hang on, i think im getting it, however i got rid of the white space around the picture but now wen i re edited it into the group box, the image doesnt show anymore, just as red writing( the file name)--Grahame3 01:53, 14 May 2008 (BST)

You uploaded it, but when you linked you linked to a wiki page that had the same name as your image name. You have to type image:(imagename) in the brackets [[]] in order for it to show up. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 01:55, 14 May 2008 (BST)

Like this Image:Oxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo.jpg, but without the first colon. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 01:56, 14 May 2008 (BST)

bloody fantastic!! thanks alot!! should i just copy the group box to put it on my group page aswell?--Grahame3 02:03, 14 May 2008 (BST)

Exactly. Then you can develop the rest of the page to have group goals and such. Just remember to keep it after the group box. It's been formatted to know to keep the group box to the side and doesn't have to be moved in order to have text on the left. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 02:06, 14 May 2008 (BST)

My user page

Akule, I put something up on my user page - is this a good way of putting them on notice? Thanks in advance --Tselita 14:33, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Looks pretty good. You've let them know that you aren't going to take anymore crap and are just deleting their comments like you are allowed to do on your talk page. If they continue, you can use that precedent that I showed you to take them to vandal banning. Just don't take any bait they offer and you should be fine. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 21:28, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Cute, but useless, there's plenty of precedence that says not wanting to hear from people is means to assume any comments they make are bad faith. Quite a bit of it thanks to Finis.--Karek^maps?! 06:53, 28 May 2008 (BST)

Realistically, since she asked you and others to not post on her page, the question becomes do you really have to speak with her in an unofficial manner? If the answer is no, and yet those persist, wouldn't that considered harassment, and thus bad faith? --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 21:03, 28 May 2008 (BST)

No, not heeding her desire to ignore me isn't bad faith, harassment would be if I were purposely trying to piss her off, and even then we don't have anti-harassment policies, it's to the point where the harassment starts to involve bad faith actions that Vandal Banning can step in, until that point it's just attempting to use Administration pages to back up your side in a dispute.--Karek^maps?! 22:33, 28 May 2008 (BST)

The precedent I am citing is here. Specifically:

Jedaz said:

Harassment of this kind *is* covered by M/VB because it *is* a bad faith edit like you said, and as we all should know bad faith edits (equals) vandalism because of this policy. Common, you know that harassment is vandalism because you haven't been able to come back with any reasoning on why it's not covered by M/VB.

If someone asks another user to stop posting on their page, and that user continues to do so and continues to belittle them, then how could that be considered a good faith action? --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 22:47, 28 May 2008 (BST)

Not the same thing, that's what I mentioned where it starts to cross the line into actual bad faith, the whole Faerie Queen drama was very close to that. If she were to bring a case against me for commenting on her page it would be closer to this and this than the Faerie Queen cases. You have a few problems here that differentiate; 1) You have to prove I'm doing it to harass here and she's not just taking it as such because she dislikes me. 2) you have to prove that harassment is done in bad faith, if I'm trying to make a point about something it's not harassment even if it seems harassing, being unpleasent isn't vandalism. 3) Saying you want something to be bad faith does not, in fact, make it bad faith, it just makes it an inadvisable action that will probably lead to a fit from that user, not my fault if that user can't behave like an adult in an adult environment, it's also not my fault that that user doesn't have the common sense or emotional/mental fortitude to simply remove the comment from the user they don't like instead of causing a row over it.

If you can show that she's not throwing a fit through the whole thing and that my intent is to drive her up the wall then you have a harassment case, to prove my intent is to harass you need a bad faith basis, something like what was done in the Faerie Queen case where the user followed Matthew around purposely imitating him and generally causing problems, the intent was bad faith and borderline impersonation, it was personal satire taken to an extreme that started to cross the line into bad faith when that warning was given. --Karek^maps?! 02:35, 29 May 2008 (BST)

To make the point simpler This where she removes my comments replacing them with insults and not removing the replies, makes a harassment case from her all but impossible and actually is grounds for an extremely feasible impersonation case if I wanted to bring one up against her, because she's attributing commentary to me that didn't come from me by removing my context. That's harassment.--Karek^maps?! 03:12, 29 May 2008 (BST)

I've seen some of that. I didn't say that she should replace your text, but rather to just delete any posts from you if she didn't want you on her page anymore. It's really becoming a case for A/A at this point. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 21:05, 29 May 2008 (BST)

Oops.

Sorry that was a question for Kevan, he then immediately updated the login page and i deleted again. Sorry for the confusion. Me and my silly indenting. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:21, 28 May 2008 (BST)

I figured, but just in case I left that comment. :D --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 23:22, 28 May 2008 (BST)

The Truth

I invite you to learn the Truth. The Truth continues daily. Terra^{I know the truth.} 23:54, 3 June 2008 (BST)

I'll have to listen to it when I get back to a computer with speakers. :D --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 23:56, 3 June 2008 (BST)

I want to know there is corn in my poop when I havent had corn in days.--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 00:01, 4 June 2008 (BST)

I apologize for posting at the top of your page, I will keep this in mind next time I need to speak with you. Anime the reason corn is in your poop is because you have not properly denied access to foreign objects in your anus. Next time you see an ear of corn coming at you, you should promptly put your pants back on.Terra^{I know the truth.} 00:05, 4 June 2008 (BST)

It's no problem. I should put something at the top stating how I prefer posts to be laid out. :D --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 00:15, 4 June 2008 (BST)

Response to your Subpoena

First, in response to your subpoena I am informing you that I did in fact leave Urban Dead for reasons having nothing to do with the war and for the following reasons:

1.) I got sick of the stupid drama, bullshit, and penis replacement that is the norm in Urban Dead by my experience. I've seen less dick-waving in High School locker rooms than on here and I didn't like it with people who at least would say it to someone's face and in person.

2.) The blatant hypocrisy on the part of MANY individuals in this game would make George Bush blush. I have no desire to associate with such individuals in any fashion. The base betrayal by individuals that were felt to be loyal persons, specifically the case of User:Max890 betraying and leaving the Imperium was a nail in the coffin for me.

3.) This game has been a source of stress in my life and I don't have any desire to add to said stress with the other stresses of preparing for the GREs, looking for work, and getting ready to move to a different city full-time and be living on my own shortly. Compared to dealing with the whining of a pathetic honorless troll like Sonny Corleone said concerns greatly outweigh the desire to remain. I don't play a free game to put up with that kind of shit, I was more looking for something fun but I guess that's hard to find in Urban Dead.

4.) My leaving had nothing to do with the Invasion of Gibsonton and before the announcement went out I was already getting somewhat bored with UD as is. I decided to remain until the end as I refuse to back down in the face of a loud-mouthed thug like Sonny. Furthermore, I left of my own volition for the aforementioned reasons and was NOT asked to quit by the Imperium as Sonny demanded.

Second, that is the only testimony I wish to give in the arbitration case. I have no desire to be dragged back into this fever swamp for any reason especially considering how easy it is for Sonny and his pets to lie through their teeth and for it to be taken at face value.

Third, as a final statement on the matter, I find that so many people have no problem with acting in such a reprehensible fashion shows the true content of their character and that so many people have no problem with acting in such a fashion shows how truly vile so many people involved in this game are. The anonymity of the Internet gives people the freedom to act as they please online, I feel that said anonymity is the strongest argument in favor of acting in an aboveboard, honorable, and decent manner as the only person who genuinely knows the actions of yourself are you, and if someone can live with being a dick for no better reason than they can to someone they will never meet it truly shows what a sad, pathetic, honorless sack of shit they truly are. That so many people openly and willingly engage in such actions and there is no effort by the Urban Dead community to redress this rot shows that not only are the perpetrators truly vile people but that those who refuse to step in and act are just as bad. As Dante once said, "There is a special place in Hell for those who remain neutral in times of great moral crisis." While I do not believe in Hell, I can say with certainty many users involved in Urban Dead will be getting a nice trip after they shuffle off the mortal coil to that lovely part of Helheim where they will be nothing more than ragged ghosts living in a frozen wasteland of darkness, misery, and suffering to be gnawed upon by Niddhog for all time. There are those few who are in fact decent, honest, upright people but they are grains of rice weighed against a ton of steel considering how many of the more reprehensible breed prowl this place.

May those of you who act in such a fashion fear the day you go to meet your Maker, for I do not forsee for many of you a good end. As for me, at least my heart is clear and my honor satisfied.--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}23:08, 8 June 2008 (BST)

Thanks for letting me know. I don't have any idea of what was going on with the Imperium, so to get a little bit more information about the whole thing does help me out. Mainly, I'd like to have the whole record be straight and have an accurate description of the battle. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 23:12, 8 June 2008 (BST)

RE: Arby's

No questions for the Philosophe Knights? Aww...And we had all these Bootiful Links and this great, big, juicy compilation of things designed to blow Kikashie's opening statement so far out of the water it would sink Kikashie's boat. --DT^PK 01:22, 19 June 2008 (BST)

I just got to a point where I had read so much testimony and evidence that put my decision in the favor of the PKers, that I didn't see how it would end up being otherwise. Please feel free to post them under the discussion section though. Extra evidence is always useful. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 01:27, 19 June 2008 (BST)

Oh, if it becomes necessary, I'm sure we will. Basically, it would have just put Kikashie's foot in his mouth concerning the DA achieving it's objectives, but otherwise, I don't think we'll have the time to spare, with all of our good works, and whatnot. I'm sure you know how it is. Praise Knowledge. --DT^PK 01:54, 19 June 2008 (BST)

A Template in the Hand is Worth Two in the Bush

	Play on Names
	This user received a template with his likeness. Get it? A Kool Aid. Because you help people. Aid them. A-Kule Aid! Look, I wasn't going to put a picture of a hawaiian fish in a template, okay? It doesn't even make sense as a 'play on names' then. OH YEAH!

As you well know, I'm making a ton of play on name templates. My boss doesn't keep me busy enough, apparently. Enjoy! --Tselita 22:21, 25 June 2008 (BST)

I'll admit, I was expecting the fish. It's also native american, but that fish is everywhere. I like this version. :D --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 00:09, 26 June 2008 (BST)

Please go to http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Deletions and vote Keep so that the Grimch doesn't try to delete the template I made for you (and others). Thank you. --Tselita 13:16, 27 June 2008 (BST)

Hidden Tower

Sorry to correct you but Cyberbob was Hubrid Nox. I forgot to add him I guess a long time ago. He used to go by that name here on the wiki for a while. That and "a bothan spy"...but that's totally different. --Sonny Corleone ^{DORIS MSD pr0n} 00:48, 11 July 2008 (BST)

Ah, my mistake. I have corrected the entry. Anyone else you want to add? --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 00:59, 11 July 2008 (BST)

Nope. It's pretty much a dead group now since Matthew is gone. Time to create a new wiki group to troll. --Sonny Corleone ^{DORIS MSD pr0n} 01:06, 11 July 2008 (BST)

A/D

Regarding your vote on several user redirect pages i have separated the case into individual cases, if you feel so inclined please recast your vote on each page relevant to how you feel about that particular redirect being kept on the wiki. Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.--xoxo 07:50, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

That's fine with me. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 23:40, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Re:Template help

im trying to make it about the size of a reguler template, why--Forensic hoffman 22:49, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I've made a lot of them before, so I can help, if you like. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 22:51, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

wow, thanks btw how do you know about me?--Forensic hoffman 22:52, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I saw it in the recent changes off to the left of the screen. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 22:54, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

	Hero
	This user is considered a hero.

That work? Just make sure that you look at the template in the edit window, so you can see how it is put together. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 22:56, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I Love You

Will you have my babies? And then abort them. --Sonny Corleone ^{DORIS MSD pr0n} 02:01, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

We can now! Then put fire them at people with some sort of catapult, or fetapult, as it were. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 02:03, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

k --Sonny Corleone ^{DORIS MSD pr0n} 02:22, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I just figured you'd like to meet Blackboard, since he just blew up on the deletions page. ;) --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 02:28, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey! What happened to the classic of spreading them on crackers, and enjoying them with some good sharp cheese? Come on dude... Cannibal Corps!--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 02:26, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say what the people who we shot at did with them. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 02:28, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Wai?

Wai do you cum back only wen AS is in truble? :( --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 04:13, 17 June 2009 (BST)

I have him on retainer--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 06:07, 17 June 2009 (BST)

I was summoned for hunting down a zerger, and eventually that meant I would look at the wiki. So, how have you been? :D --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 00:24, 18 June 2009 (BST)

Tired and bored. On the positive note, I'm in the slow process of writing up a massive overhaul of the wiki's systems.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 02:33, 19 June 2009 (BST)

The Thing About Reevaluation

Is that we all already know what the views on the sysops are, all they do is allow for crats to have a reason to deny certain sysops the position for petty reasons. That being said the occasional cleaning of the house isn't a bad thing but when you have stuff like the open discussion vote that is so drastically different from the reality of the user's opinion as little as a month or two later then you've got your real issue with bringing the repromotion thing up at all. Basically these are things that should come after some real, qualitative, hard discussion on the parts of users in a neutral position to make that decision, sort of an arb com on sysops except there's no one in a chain that would be able to do that right now without being kevan, it's all to interconnected. 'Crats are basically sysops in control of promotions but they're far from neutral and have long had a tendency to behave in an agenda driven manner, sysops tend to have their own personal disputes with each other for personal or not so personal reasons almost always arising from opposing rulings, and the general users is far from discriminatory enough to have the required level of quality on the issue. If you really want to do it like that you'll probably want to set up a group of users specifically to that purpose, throw in ban review as one of their privs and just develop a whole chain, possibly make it so they have the final say on requests for starting a sysop reevaluation, a ban evaluation, and an arbitration ruling evaluation but have not power to start these, just basically the ability to say "Yeah, looks like there's enough reason to reopen this to discussion". --Karek^maps?! 01:19, 30 July 2009 (BST)

That's an interesting idea. Honestly, I wouldn't mind setting something like that up. We should set up an open discussion about the idea and see what people think of it. As for the reason for creating the re-evaluations, I noticed that it seems like it is something that the community wanted (and had wanted in the past, just not in the form of my previous policy). Oh, and it's not a vote. I set it up like the promotions bid where the community gets a chance to say something. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 19:45, 31 July 2009 (BST)

That's kinda the problem, the promotions system as of current is a vote unless you have someone that knows what is meant by that in the position, that's why Boxy basically had the position for life as 'crat. The current promotions system really isn't good for discovery of consensus, it tends to either being treated like a vote and the 'crats promoting based on that or like a personal battle ground and the 'crats deciding by personal opinion before the community weighs in, there's rarely any real discussion on a non-personal level. --Karek^maps?! 23:13, 31 July 2009 (BST)

You obviously don't know Link is all I'm going to say. Cyberbob  Talk  03:54, 1 August 2009 (BST)

I know link very well. --Karek^maps?! 04:24, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Please explain how you got the impression that he does anything other than what the promotions system was intended to be. It seems to me that you're setting up something of a catch-22; if a crat promotes someone and they just happen to have a majority of vouches it's OMG VOTING, if they do the same when they don't have a majority it's OMG PERSONAL OPINION NO TAKING ANYTHING ELSE INTO ACCOUNT. Cyberbob  Talk  04:30, 1 August 2009 (BST)

The thing you're missing here is that it's irrelevant so much as the proposed system is completely dependent on the good will of a basically randomly elected person to allow for real discussion on the validity of a reassessment and then it's only tied to promotions. There have been incidents of it in the past but even that isn't that relevant beyond that it's setting up a system that would both tempt and encourage misuse regardless of the character of the 'crat that is given that opportunity. I'm looking at a more full and real solution, one that allows uninvolved assessment of admin actions in a committee like structure so as to make it possible to have a true and universal wiki process review system. --Karek^maps?! 05:24, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Good luck but you're literally never going to make it work. Not because you're dumb or anything but it just won't happen due to physical impossibility. Cyberbob  Talk  05:30, 1 August 2009 (BST)

What users would you even suggest for something like this karek? I mean you say it's not the sysops and the vast majority of regular users who hang around and actually know whats going on are seen by the sysops as biased and establishment hating etc. I challenge you to come up with 3 potential users you think could actually fill this sort of position. --xoxo 01:36, 1 August 2009 (BST)

You, me, and Iscariot. :P --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 04:07, 1 August 2009 (BST)

You're posting on the page of at least one of them. --Karek^maps?! 04:24, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Which means me and jed aren't them. :(((-- High Overlord and Lead Conspirator of the Administrative Rebellion. Want help? 05:28, 1 August 2009 (BST)