User talk:Odd Starter/Inbox Archive

	User talk archive
	This page is an archive page of User talk:Odd Starter. It would be much appreciated if you could start new discussion there, instead of here.

Question Re:Categories

I have no idea what is the guideline for buildings. Eventually, I would like to put up all the Yagoton blocks as pages. If the buildings aren't exceptional enough to fit in the Locations category, perhaps they should just be removed and left in the Yagoton category? --Nov 14:13, 4 Dec 2005 (GMT)

It's more the issue that most buildings aren't particularly interesting, and if they aren't particularly interesting, why put them in the wiki? We should attempt to try and make wiki stuff at least relevant to most people - most blocks simply don't need a page unto themselves, they're not nearly interesting enough to warrant an entire page about them. -- Odd Starter 14:21, 4 Dec 2005 (GMT)

How relevant are the survivor or zombie groups to most people? How relevant are the journals to most people? Not very I'd guess, but nevertheless, they are still relevant to a select group of people. How relevant are the buildings in Yagoton to most people? Not very as well, I'm sure. However the bonus is that the page is available for any event that happens in the block. How relevant are the mansions to most people? Or how interesting are the mansions? By your reasoning, mansions shouldn't have their own pages as well. Yet there are specific pages dedicated to mansions. I'm not trying to be an ass about it, I'm just saying that what may or may not be relevant or interesting to "some people" is a subjective matter (or POV as opposed to NPOV). I feel that each block should have its own page, not just for Yagoton but for the whole of Malton as well so that if someone would want to search for the suburb with the most monuments, they will be able to do so with the wiki. Perhaps there should be a talk on this somewhere on the wiki? --Nov 15:39, 4 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Nov, again, Do we really need a page for every single block in Malton? Unless something interesting happens there, I'm not sure we need an entire page for, say, streets or wastelands, or factories... -- Odd Starter 00:06, 5 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Sooner or later something interesting will happen somewhere in Malton. I'm not suggesting an entire page for every street, wasteland or cemetry at the moment though although that "would be nice". Ultimately though, every block should have a page, IMO. At the moment all I'm doing is to make sure every named building in Yagoton has a page, if only to track their barricading status as per the UBP. Perhaps some might think it's not needed, I'll grant you that... but there is no policy at the moment as to what should have a page and what shouldn't, and as such, I think having about 50 extra pages for Yagoton isn't too much of a big deal. I know you disagree to some extent and I understand that the more pages there are, the more work the admins have tracking those pages and ensuring that they are "up to scratch". I'll promise to keep the "block" pages up to a certain standard if you let me keep them and to make sure they are "up to scratch" if that's your main concern. --Nov 01:01, 5 Dec 2005 (GMT)

The question then becomes, why not put up the page when something interesting happens? -- Odd Starter 01:12, 5 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Or conversely what's wrong with having a page in preparation for something interesting happening? --Nov 01:17, 5 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Urgh, this is slow... do you have any messenger programs we can use to talk instead of me filling up your talk page and you doing the reverse? --Nov 01:47, 5 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Help Needed!

Erm... I think I messed up some of the Yagoton pages... if you have 5 minutes or so, could we IRC so that I can find out what I'm doing wrong? Thanks. --Nov 04:06, 6 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Sorry about that.

I'm still not sure how wikis work- especially this "user talk" thing. Hope this is the right place for it. :)

-Ron Burgundy

Wasn't really a "snipe". More of a speculation. He had made about three posts like he was responding to something. Got a little confusing. --ALIENwolve 01:21, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

MORE!

Right-o and thanks for the advice! In the future, I'll try to refrain from editing the wiki while drunk... but I make no promises!

Vandal

Thanks for the help with that guy. Kinda weird - I see we weren't the only ones targetted by that vandal. Oh and since you're the first one outside of our group that I know to have seen the edit history - sorry about all the edits. It was from back when I was still learning the wiki. Riktar 05:53, 17 Dec 2005 (GMT)

I was reporting ludwigs reverting past a moderator edit, did I do something wrong?--Axe-man 02:20, 28 Nov 2005 (GMT)

No, not really. You should know that edits by moderators generally don't carry any special weight, though. --LibrarianBrent 02:26, 28 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Katthew's reponse via email is on Saumu's page.--Axe-man 03:09, 28 Nov 2005 (GMT)

About archiving old talk, is there anything special involved or is it just another page? It hasn't come up yet in my experience which is why I ask. I didn't mean to be rude by erasing the posts but they were cluttering the Talk page and were increasingly unpleasant, also the idea of archiving the discussion hadn't occurred to me. (I had assumed that since it was recorded in the 'history' that should be enough to retrieve the information should it be needed.) Thank you for your time and I apologize for my breach of Wiki etiquette. --Matthew-Stewart 22:50, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Simply create a link like [[/Archive]] (ie, a page with a backslash in front to establish that it's an archive page), and then move the discussion there. In theory you're correct, the history does record everything, but wiping talk pages does tend to look like "removing evidence", at least from casual inspection (I for one don't like having to trawl through diff pages to find old comments). This doesn't apply to User talk pages (you can wipe them whenever you feel like it), but on any other page, Archiving is the best alternative. -- Odd Starter 22:53, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Thank you. I have archived that discussion and noted what is stored next to the archive list for quick referencing. I see what you mean, it is more considerate to provide easy referencing for those who might be interested in reading it.--Matthew-Stewart 23:31, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Responding to what you left on my discussion page:

Excuse me, but when a group is posting my groups member list on thier wikis kill list when we have done NOTHING to them, i am more than justified in removing it, especially when the person in question cannot justify his hypocracy in maintaining a grief list when he claims to be against griefers.

I tried to be nice about it, but he has refused to even meet the compromise terms i offered, specifically him providing me with a complete list of his groups members, since he is so adamant that we are a threat when we are humans, which we are not (Either comitting suicide immediately by leaping out of a building or by standing up and letting the horde have a good meal, or by playing good little survivors.).

He is deliberately and unfairly hampering our play (griefing us) with that list, and i will not stand it, and i will continue to delete it until he either admits to the fact that his group openly griefs others (Rather than pretending its nothing at all) or he takes the bloody list down and keeps it down.

If you look at the history of the page, you will see that he has also LIED about our group, accusing of of spying on humans when alive in a pathetic attempt to justify his position when we have a strict no spying policy posted on our wiki (That of the Drunken Dead) You might want to check out the history of the discussion page on the wiki in question too.

Why should i allow another to slander and grief my group? Explain to me why i should tolerate it and allow it to happen when i have the power to stop it.

I will continue to delete the list, as it IS griefing, and it IS hypocracy of the highest order, and i WILL NOT stand for it. --Grim s 12:28, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

(Copied from my discussion page)

Your continued editing of their page can be considered vandalism, and I hereby grant you warning of such. If you continue to edit the Dulston Defense Death Squad page in this manner you may be banned. -- Odd Starter 12:44, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I now see that the mods are not here to protect people from malicious users who try and wreck the game for others. A pity... i thought you might be impartial. What a joke. The content posted in that wiki is undeniably offensive. It is slander and it is openly griefing. And yet, you do nothing but threaten me with potential banning if i continue to defend myself. --Grim s 12:57, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

(Copied from my discussion page)

I understand that your reputation, and the reputation of your group, is important to you, but may I note that it would perhaps be more productive to dispel such rumours on your own pages? At the very least, this strategy does not involve the malicious editing of other group's pages. -- Odd Starter 13:06, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

You mean it cant have anything to do with the fact that... i dont know... maybe: WE DONT WANT TO BE GRIEFED? What i am doing is not a malicious edit.

A malicious edit would not be me taking down his death list, but leaving it there and renaming it the "grief" list and putting in a comment saying "Hurrr! We dont like being griefed, but we are perfectly willing to do it to others! It isnt hypocricy because we are retarded!!!". The allegations he makes there about my group reflect directly back on me. If i cant protect my members from griefing, what kind of a leader am i?

The Drunken Dead Wiki page deals with the Drunken Dead only, and i will not post any slander or comments against another group, or refute thier comments there. It is meant to be a mostly light hearted page, and i dont want to fill it up with doom and gloom seriousness.

If Matthew Stewart wishes to post such a list he should do it on his own website where only his group will look, not the Wiki. People who look at that list dont get the full story, and will grief us without ever knowing why, thinking we are exactly what we are not. As such, i reserve the right to defend myself and the members of my organisation. I have tried talking, and that got me approximately nowhere. I have now taken matters into my own hands. --Grim s 13:25, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

(Copied from my discussion page)

I'll agree that Matthew-Stewart is not exactly innocent in this manner (wiping talk pages is not conducive to conflict resolution), but don't claim perfect innocence yourself. Yes, you've talked, however, the failure of said talking does not give you license to remove segments of another group's page (and yes, that is malicious, regardless of your intentions). Wrong actions for right reasons, in this case, are still wrong. A group is perfectly within it's rights to have a kill list on it's page (and I'll note that you don't seem to be worried about kill lists on other group's pages that don't have your name on them, so it's purely about your reputation), and it is perfectly within it's rights to use faulty evidence to place others on their list. Continue editing the page and you may be banned. -- Odd Starter 13:45, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I was not aware that other groups had kill lists on them. I only knew about this one because they have thier wiki link sprayed all over Dulston. I have seen a great many wiki entries, and this is, as far as i know, the only one with a kill list.

You are asking me to bend over and take it up the arse like a good little chior boy, and i will not do so. I will not let him knowingly post false and misleading information about me or any others i am honour bound to protect. The only way to resolve this (Without banning me, and i assure you i would get back on a proxy) would be for you to tell him to keep his list on a seperate web page, and not on the wiki. Thats a simple solution, as it keeps passers by in the wiki from being misled and griefing those who i am responsible for. --Grim s 13:58, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

(Copied from my discussion page)

Very well. I have made my statements, you have made yours. Any attempts to subvert bans will result in those proxies also being banned, for as long as the ban remains in place, as well as possible permanent banning. I have made you aware of the consequences of your course of action, I choose to allow events to occur as they will. -- Odd Starter 14:09, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Or you could, y'know, tell him to post it on his website or forum. He has both. Thats a win/win situation. All i want is it off the wiki. --Grim s 14:17, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Urgent bad linage. Unofficial UD Chats has nothing. a mistake?--Spellbinder 02:10, 5 Dec 2005 (GMT)

OddStarter, I'm just trying to clamp down on the more controvertial elements of the wiki. I think that the Ludwig/DARIS war has done on too long, makes us look like a bunch of children. Honestly, other then that, I don't see any need for standards. But those 2 entries are just so over the top, it's not funny.--AnimeGuy 05:03, 21 Nov 2005 (GMT)

It occurs to me that it's going to be much easier to let them play, rather than force a rather restricting system that they're just going to abuse to keep fighting anyway. Ludwig and the SA users are going to fight no matter what, all that standards are going to do is change how they fight. And, you know, considering how they haven't been fighting much for the past few weeks, I'd thought that it had mostly quietened down... -- Odd Starter 05:07, 21 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Yeah, you're right, kids will be kids. ugh I suspect it's quieted down on here because they took it to the forums. I wished they'd just let it go, but it seems that Katthew and Ludwig don't want to let it go. It's spamming the crap out of the forums. --AnimeGuy 05:13, 21 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Sometimes the fight is more important than the reasons. Pushing NPOV, unfortunately, doesn't help if they care more about the fight than the right... -- Odd Starter 05:29, 21 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Just curious, does it give you the "new messages" thing when someone edits the talk on one of your sub-pages? --Raelin 21:13, 3 Nov 2005 (GMT)

No, I don't think you do. Try it if you like, but I'm fairly certain that I don't get the message. -- Odd Starter 01:34, 4 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Okay, I can now officially claim... No. The new message indicator only shows up regarding edits to this page. -- Odd Starter 03:31, 5 Nov 2005 (GMT)

heh, took me forever to figure out how that new message thingy worked. hey, sorry about overstepen myself. your right in that in two weeks it will still be a good idea. so should it be pointed out that you'll be the one to do the editing?--Spellbinder 05:57, 8 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Absolutely not - Once a suggestions passes the two-week mark, anyone can move it to the appropriate page. The point isn't who follows procedure, but that the procedure is followed. On a related vein, anyone can (and should) correct someone that isn't following procedure. The page is built to be self-moderating - or, more correctly, that any user can moderate the page. If you find something wrong, fix it - as long as you're following procedure.

It's the tradeoff for Devolving Power to everyone - If anyone can moderate the page, everyone should be watching everyone else, and correcting things when they go wrong. Don't complain - do! If you do wrong, someone else will correct you. That's the power of wikis! -- Odd Starter 06:09, 8 Nov 2005 (GMT)

heh, ya sound like a preacher man, lol. thanks for the clairifaction. however, you and i disagree on one thing. You don't seem to like the spam vote, yet, you also said that it really dosen't matter what the vote tallys were when it came down to the final resting place. An idea that nobody wants to see anymore, like that Layith the smacketh downith sugestion, was so horrable that we WANT a way to simply take such ideas off. they arn't being deleated, but moved in the inevitable direction that was going to take place anyways. the removal of clutter, and isen't that why this new suggestion page was created anyways?--Spellbinder 06:43, 8 Nov 2005 (GMT)

See, we already have a procedure for moving things off the Suggestions queue - when their two weeks are up, we throw them onto the appropriate page. In reality, that's all we actually need. These god-awful ideas will never get onto the Peer Reviewed page (since they're that horrible), and once they've passed their two weeks, they'll never be allowed onto the queue again. We don't need to kick them off any sooner, not really - surely you can't be afraid that a little bit of extra time will garner them enough Keep votes to get them Peer Reviewed status?

Have trust in your fellow user - if it's crap, they'll know it. You don't need to isolate the crap any more than the system does currently. -- Odd Starter 06:48, 8 Nov 2005 (GMT)

well, need i point out that it is my fellow user that put it up there in the first place? *smiles* in either case, i was hoping that you would reword what i put on the bottom of the suggestion page and put your own user stamp on it. i think your word carrys just a little more water then the rest of ours, and it would help keep the flow running smoothly again. --Spellbinder 01:37, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Thanks sorry for giving you more coding to do on the site I was trying to lend a hand. I thought that 3 spam votes automatically made it spam?

perhaps we should mention that on the main page, does spam equal a kill keep or neither vote this type of clarification helps other players. Time to make spam less vague if its not spam it should count as a kill vote. Also what about ties? GodofGames 02:19, 14 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Actually, it should be on every page now, including the main Suggestions. The guidelines automatically update if you edit them on a given page, specifically for this sort of issue (ie changes need to be made, best to make them to all the pages at once. -- Odd Starter 02:28, 14 Nov 2005 (GMT)

RE: Yeah...I was about to openly apologize for screwing it up or something. I thought it was Firefox freaking up. --Fixen 04:46, 16 Nov 2005 (GMT)

RE: Bah...do you have an automatic script for archiving suggestions? If you do, it might be that. I won't be surprised if this is screwing up...I bet the traffic load in this site doubled since the new suggestions format. --Fixen 04:52, 16 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Ya, thanks for the suggestion. I'm new to this whole wiki deal. I'll do it from now on. Preacher Tom

yo cheers for the jounel thing im dont realy no how to use wiki and i hope i didnt delete anything by posting here,

Nope. But don't worry about it, even if you did - It wouldn't've taken me long to fix it back up again. It's the power of wiki! So don't worry about making mistakes, since anyone on the wiki can fix them up, even you when you get better at the whole wiki thing. -- Odd Starter 15:15, 28 Oct 2005 (BST)

did u like my jounel? :P --Redemptionx8 16:11, 28 Oct 2005 (BST)

Actually, I never read it. No offense intended at all, but I just don't read Journals, nor do I keep one. That said, the very brief skim I took of it indicates that you could probably use some formatting at least, as it's mostly one big block of text. Try going to Help:Editing to get some help on what the formatting codes are around here. -- Odd Starter 15:15, 28 Oct 2005 (BST)

ok :P as i said i just started useing wiki and i dont use internet code in my daily life -Redemptionx8 15:55, 28 Oct 2005 (BST)

Thus why I pointed out a place where you can learn these things :)

Good luck on finding your way on the wiki! -- Odd Starter 15:23, 28 Oct 2005 (BST)

yea i added break lines and bullet points etc etc :P thanks for the help page am i doing this right by editing ur inbox or am i supposed to ssumbit something lmao -Redemptionx8 15:55, 28 Oct 2005 (BST)

Nope, you're doing it right! See? This wiki-editing stuff isn't nearly as hard as people think :) -- Odd Starter 15:57, 28 Oct 2005 (BST)

hmm, how do i put stuff in boxes? like the box around the table of contents etc ect --Redemptionx8 16:11, 28 Oct 2005 (BST)

Sure... I'll try.

Hi, sorry for foolish trailing | on the FP stats link. Quick fix, thanks! --Jim Bubba 01:03, 3 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Heh, both our characters are currently on the same square in Giddings. Didn't notice til I read the talk on the Search Odds page. --Raelin 08:49, 3 Oct 2005 (BST)

Hmm! How about that. I hadn't noticed either! Well, I'll be stuck here collecting data for all the shops that noone else'll collect, so if you're staying for a while, well, howdy! -- Odd Starter 10:22, 3 Oct 2005 (BST)

You use your scout to look at malls you're going to next? whats the action in santerville like right now? --Radoteur 09:15, 5 Oct 2005 (BST)

Actually no - My Scout is purely for research purposes (although, while it's there, I might as well let it pick up the vibe of the community there). I don't usually have it scout Malls out for me before Odd Starter comes down there.

As for the question though, Dowdney Mall seems a smallish community - this may be due to the fact that the entire mall is Heavily+ Barricaded. Odd Tester has only been there for a few hours, so the action in the rest of the suburb hasn't really filtered through yet. -- Odd Starter 12:58, 5 Oct 2005 (BST)

Yeah, the whole "Mall Survey Project" seems rather unfeasible nowadays the way the zombie hordes and going through them. Of course if you're looking for communities, "dead/empty" is pretty easy to fill out on them, I suppose.--Insomniac By Choice 05:02, 2 Nov 2005 (GMT)

It's more feasible than it was when I started - then there were a number of communities that were under very dangerous conditions, irrespective of the Zombies (I started when DARIS still held Shearbank, f'rex). It could probably still be done, but I don't know how useful the information would be now that conditions are changing so quickly. -- Odd Starter 05:59, 2 Nov 2005 (GMT)

If your zombie-looking-for-revive Odd Tester is anywhere near, say, Ruddlebank, I might be in a position to help in that department. --Natalya Zveda 06:35, 18 Oct 2005 (BST)

'tis OK - Some kind soul saw him out on the street and revived him about 2-3 hours after I moved him. Impressive actually - normally it take 2-3 kills before a revivifier comes along...

Is it OK if I protect the Suggestions page so that voting can occur before anything new is added? We're getting so much crap here that there's no way to filter it in time. Reply on my talk page if you can. --LibrarianBrent 03:05, 29 Oct 2005 (BST)

dude what exacly do you do? i dont get it, collect data? what data :P --Redemptionx8 17:15, 28 Oct 2005 (BST)

Try looking through the Search Odds Pages - that's what I collect data for :) -- Odd Starter 01:38, 29 Oct 2005 (BST)

Request for deletion...

Hi it's me Oberon.. i saw your msg about my Userpage ( User_talk:Oberon ) but instead of moving the vhunter page to my user page i started a new one for User:Oberon yeah i'm still pretty new to the wiki world.. so can you pls delete the Vhunter page? i have no more use for it, now that i have my own user page. Thx..

bye

Random Inbox Entries

I've been looking at the search results data for Necrotech buildings - there seems to be a definite bias in favor of more revivication syringes in unpowered buildings. But I wonder if the situation has changed since Necronet? I'm new to wikis, and don't dare try something as big as editing a data table to split it into pre- and post- Jan. 19; but I think splitting it would encourage some new contributions. And can you recommend a tool for making the pie graphs? --Bilge Monkey 07:22, 17 Feb 2006 (GMT)
- Wow, nice job on the stats explanation. Question: wouldn't the necrotech search have 4 degrees of freedom? Okay, maybe there isn't a powered/unpowered difference. Even if they are slightly different, it looks like it would take a heck of lot of searches to show it. Never mind with official search page, but I will put an alt to investigating and build a table on my user page. --Bilge Monkey 10:10, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

Main page discussion a long time ago, you mentioned that you didn't know how to force a table of contents to appear. Two underscores, TOC and two more underscores, as per Wikipedia How-to, forces TOC to appear at that location. Edit: Oh, also, as for "Protaganist Bias", in games such as Black & White, for example, there's a much, much larger amount of "evil" players than "good" ones. And I think that many adolescents would rather play the mean badass. Internet+Anonymity you know. --Nirovan Vorschtatz 02:37, 3 Feb 2006 (GMT)

i'm very sorry for being a git i'm just pissed with a group of DDDS survivors undoing my reviving work and when i ask them to leave they get hostile adn then i end up dead and looking for revive point. i only posted that hate message on the main page cuz i didn't know how to do it on this page and also wanted to let everyone who was horrid to me adn pking me know that i am not letting it go unpunished. thankyou adn sorry timelordross

I was reverting it... I checked the group page and saw the group box wasn't working like it used to, so after checking the history to make sure it wasn't specific to that page I checked the group box template and saw it was recently changed, so i changed it back, was I wrong? If so I apologize. --Matthew Stewart 00:05, 24 Jan 2006 (GMT)

After checking several group pages my revert has fixxed what someone else broke as the group pages now work. --Matthew Stewart 00:07, 24 Jan 2006 (GMT)

I was wondering if you had noticed any change in the search odds for syringes in NT buildings since the "on strike" and if so, how this was tied to the increasing % of zombies. Cheers --Celt Mac �ireann 10:02, 28 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Nah, it was just that MCV personnel had reported a dearth of syringes. Could just be search odds, desperation on their part, or possibly Kevan's way to even up the odds. Anyway, I'll draw up some sort of spredsheet and ask them to record finds on it. One last question, where should I post the results?--Celt Mac �ireann 15:48, 28 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Ay man, I am having trouble... how in hell do I create a group page without altering other peoples? or to that matter do anything around here with the slightest ease... any help would be apreciated on the matter. Thank you Drathe Blue.
Message for you! *grin* I just noticed you reverted a bit of spam ... be on notice: a couple of wikis where I'm regular have gotten pounded with that kind of spam ... it's time to get ready to block IPs, really. cheers --Rohstun 06:46, 7 Dec 2005 (GMT)
You are welcome. That is what the Wiki is all about; people working together to make something the best it can be through collaboration. It's every responsible person's individual duty to do what they can for the community. --Matthew-Stewart 00:15, 12 Dec 2005 (GMT)
thanks for telling me. I was just seeing if it could work had the intent to delete it after finding out. --Deathnut 06:57, 21 Dec 2005 (GMT)

the Recent Changes page tells you were made Moderator on 28 Oct. but there is this entry just below from something that occured on 14th November. Could you take a look in that page ? --hagnat 23:19, 29 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- of course you wouldn't unterstand. The page in question isCurrent Events not Recent Changes. My bad. --hagnat 00:29, 30 Dec 2005 (GMT)
How does one generate the pie chart images found at the end of most search pages? I would like to update the chart for Fire Departments and possibly others. Thanks, Shades of Grey 07:48, 1 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Hi, there. I don't know if you follow the UD Forums, but quite a few folk have shown up complaining about a decrease in syringe find rate inside NecroTechs some time around the New Year. I'm very skeptical, myself, but am investigating the matter more thoroughly. Given your connection with the Search Odds project, I thought I might solicit your input on this matter. Have you noticed any change in distribution between data sets collected before and after the New Year? I'm currently running my own investigation, so perhaps we could pool our data if you haven't collected enough recently to draw any conclusion. Regards, furtim 06:54, 15 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Thanks for the prompt reply! The Malton Science Group's investigation is ongoing, but it's so far drawn similar conclusions. We show the current syringe find rate to be around 5%. Looking at the confidence intervals complicates matters, of course, but the reasonable conclusion is that the syringe find rate hasn't dropped since books were added to the NT search list.

Do you mind if I quote your message on the UD Forums? It may help decrease your time spent answering that question. ;) furtim 05:21, 17 Jan 2006 (GMT)

G'day, I was curious if we could do a front page update. I don't have a problem with the clutter, but I do have a problem with the first two paragraphs, as they repeat one another. Also, if there was a way to make the current 'news' more frequent and informative. Like maybe add a 'add news' link onto there, which would lead to a daily news page? I wanted to run some of this by you first before I had all my changes reverted. Thanks! --GoNINzo 17:24, 18 Jan 2006 (GMT)

About those /Archive and /Guidelines pages... I think I accidentally re-created them by placing {speedydelete} on them. So, they actually do exist now. But if the pages can't be really removed anyway, I don't know if it matters.

As a side note, did you know that the wiki has a hiccup if you try to edit a page, but it is destoyed while doing so? Happened with ?.

Also, don't you think Project Welcome could use some, um, advertisement?

--Brizth 10:10, 12 Feb 2006 (GMT)

I was just describing the status of the page and its history. Its something i do to save people time. --Grim s 11:06, 12 Feb 2006 (GMT)

Responding to your 'Modbot?' query on my talk page. Future updates will go there, watchlist the page if you want to see them. Vasi 14:08, 12 Feb 2006 (GMT)

I moved the Wiki Groups category into the Groups category page and off the main page. The change was done out of fairness to all group types, and as a way to just kill an argument before it got worse. --Grim s 16:40, 14 Feb 2006 (GMT)

I've been wondering, what's current policy on pages descibing one character, like for example Cherrilee. Page created and character owned by User:Sylanya (She seems to two other pages as well, River_Tamm and Kediya). Should pages like these be subpages of User page or..? --Brizth ^W! 00:34, 17 Feb 2006 (GMT)

Oh sorry about the mess, I just saw another guy who did the same, and thought it was smart. My bad :-D

Regards, Chris Dk

As a bureaucrat, can you de-mod some people who aren't active any longer, just for neatness's sake? Daranz and LeakyBocks still edit, albeit very rarely, and Spiro a fair bit; I don't know if they really ought to lose privileges just because they don't use them much. However, Morlock at least is verifiably inactive.--'STER-Talk-Mod 21:45, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

Check out Moderation/Vandal Banning. What are we going to do about this? Do you have any powers to find user IPs to block them directly rather than by username? They seem to have stopped for now, but...--'STER-Talk-Mod 15:50, 19 February 2006 (GMT)\

I don't know if you answer questions about moderation policy, but I was wondering what the UD wiki's policy on talk pages was? I remember a while back the policy was that user talk pages were managed solely by their "owner" (or whoever's talk page it is), but it has been suggested to me by another user that moderation decisions do not support this idea. I don't see any reference to ownership of user talk pages on the policy page (though there is an ongoing discussion on the policy discussion page, but I don't believe that's official policy). Any clarifications? --Lucero Capell 03:32, 23 February 2006 (GMT)

Yup, that helps a ton. Thanks for the clarification, Odd Starter =) --Lucero Capell 07:21, 23 February 2006 (GMT)

Specific building names

You have already made a suggestion for generic building names a long time ago... all of those are supposed to be grouped together under one page, so in this case, it should simply be Roftwood Factories. However,

1. I didn't create that factory page. 2. there's only one factory location page done, and there's a few other factories in Roftwood

So for the time being, I leave it as it is until it can be merged into the Roftwood Factories page (which is yet to be created). If you want to talk further, I'm at the IRC wiki channel. --Nov 12:35, 19 Jan 2006 (GMT)

TY

Thanks for the message. Peterblue 21:55, 21 February 2006 (GMT).

Policy Decision

The deletion request of Iron Cross Bros. forces us to make a policy decision, as there doesn't seem to be any precedent. Do we delete something simply because people don't like it, or require that it has actually broken rules. I tend to lean towards the latter, seeing as how the former will probably just result in delete wars by different groups. --Zaruthustra-Mod 01:36, 24 February 2006 (GMT)

Yep

Hey man, if you want to discourage someone from calling upon moderators to solve problems with vandalism, that's your call. You really shouldn't balk at having to do something you volunteered for, however.

If you don't want to follow past rulings that's fine too -- But don't you dare come to me and tell me I'm wrong for bringing a case to the Mods based on those past rulings. That's the silliest thing I've seen from any moderator here.

Mods: "Deleting conversation is not allowed."
Me: "Mods, This person deleted my conversation!!"
You: "Sorry but deleting conversatons is now okay. You're wrong, go away."

That's - for lack of a better term - complete baloney. Do you see where I'm coming from on this? This person, MaulMachine, has been a thorn in my site on the GAME, on the WIKI, and on MY OWN FORUMS in the past. I go to his team's site and say: "Dudes, this isn't right, get him to knock this shit off."

Everything's subsiquently deleted in an effort to silence me, and then you, as a Mod, say it's okay.

You may not want to follow the letter of the rules -- But you are also ignoring the spirit of the Wiki.

Do you honestly believe that Deleting entire convos WITHOUT MOD ACTION when you are NOT THE PAGE OWNER, no matter HOW much they degrade, is a widely used/accepted practice on this Wiki?

No. You don't believe that.

Saying otherwise would be a very obvious lie, because you're smart enough to know I'm right about that one fact, no matter what you may think of me.

As for your personal bias - I'm not saying you OMG HATE ME or anything. I'm saying you see my name and probably groan. That's because I've had to come to the Moderators (AS I AM SUPPOSED TO DO! Jesus..) because of altercations with a handful of people who, instead of "walking away" actually SHOW UP and flame/troll me, or take it WAY too far.

You want me to walk away? How about you tell them that THEY should have walked away, too? Oh right, because I'm the one that should ignore when people do me wrong. You certainly can't ask anyone else to "walk away" now can you? That'd be downright crazy! -- Amazing 00:03, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

I also find it sad that you call "reporting people for wrongding" as "catching people with traps". Sad sad sad. -- Amazing 00:07, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

Again you're stating mistruths. I am not the only one on my side, as you would see if you looked at the conversation that was first deleted. Did you? It seems you did not since you are making erronious claims.

I would like you to tell the other parties to "walk away", yes. Why? Because that's fair. You, as a moderator, should really try to treat users equally, don't you think?

You have a lot of answers that make Vandalism acceptable. "You could have put it on a new page.", "You are the only one on your side.", "That rule isn't a firm rule" and similar statements.

How about you stop trying to excuse Vandalism?

If I blank all terse messages from talk page for the Suggestion area, would you tell every one of the pissed off patrons "You could simply post your messages on your user page."?

No, you wouldn't. Therein lies the inequality of your actions.

A lot of your stance seems to be 'not following rules to the detail', and that, frankly, is simple a lame excuse to not enforce them. All you had to do was give a warning to someone who deleted other people's comments from a page she/he didn't own. Instead you decided to not follow the guidelines because it's "not solid". Well guess what? Nothing's "Solid" on here when you get down to it, so what guidelines do you have to follow?

You're pulling the old: "You're only one person." routine. That's not how it works. Numbers, you see, have nothing to do with the right and wrong of the situation, and unfortunately you're wrong.

You're also asking me to point you to a flame war where I walked away. I could look -- but really -- screw that. You're just playing a little game, and to be honest, I've only had drawn-out, wordy disagreements with LCD members, Daxx, and I guess a couple WCDZ people. Go ahead and play that little game, but the fact of the matter is that I simply haven't been in many "flame wars" unless "many" counts as the amount you can tally with one hand. -- Amazing 00:42, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

All you've done is turn the other cheek to vandalism using the twisting of facts that you accuse me of. I don't beleive I was the one who said Talk pages weren't owned. Seems to me that was a Mod. Really, the problem here is a direct mis-match of past rulings, current rulings, and probably future rulings. If the rules change daily, that's fine - but it'd be nice if you'd cop to it.

But yeah, all you've done is ignore vandalism. Bad Mod. Bad.

End of discussion. This is me, walking away from an errant Moderator. I'll keep an eye out for your comments to the other users about not furthering arguments in the future. -- Amazing 01:09, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

How dare yo-- wait, what? ... Heh kidding. :) It's no problem, man. I know I can be a pill, so I can understand it from a removed standpoint. Now I feel bad for being snotty. :( lol -- Amazing 02:11, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

Vandalizing?

I don't really see how that is vandalizing. I simply stated my opinion, since i was dragged in the argument by a third party.--Denzel Washington 22:28, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

there's only one thing on their site from now on that I'll "vandalize". One statement says that a friend of mine is an alt character/zerger, and he's only one person. These guys take themselves way too seriously. --Sup34dog 23:55, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

I was wondering if you could clarify something for me, where can I find the official policy on who can edit group pages, I won't touch BME's article of course. I just was trying to clear up the misunderstanding that one of my characters was being run as an alt/zerg of some TimDrake, and didn't think it was an issue. Thanks for your time Mr. Starter.

Yours truly -Banana Bear4 00:11, 28 February 2006 (GMT)

Thank you for clarifying that Mr. Starter. You are a king among men. -Banana Bear4 03:37, 28 February 2006 (GMT)

Stuff

You have to realize, man, I used to make a LOT of suggestions on the Suggestion page which I defended to the very limits of my ability - and you know how dirty that place can get - plus I co-run a Survivor group that kills Spies and people affiliated with Zombie groups even if they aren't dead. These two things draw a lot of bad feelings from the trolls and the miffed. Any and all trouble I have with ANYONE on the Wiki can all be traced back to the Suggestion Page arguments and people who dislike the group I run. It's just that simple. When someone who's gotten into arguments with me in the past or has been PKing members of my group on UD wants to make a change to the group page that supports the rhetoric they spew or pops in to make a comment on something unrelated to them -- it's because they're antagonizing their 'enemy' and it's not in good faith at all. I co-run a group of nearly 40 players. I have trouble with what.. 5 or 6 people on the Wiki who keep.. showing.. up.. everywhere I go.

At some point one needs to be open to the possibility that perhaps people carry grudges and look for ways to get back at someone they dislike. Especially someone as "outspoken" as myself. If they can't "beat" me in an argument, they report me to PK lists or edit my group's page, or chime in on Moderation matters in a negative voice in hopes they can detract from my "case".

It's standard internet drama bullshit. -- Amazing 06:13, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

Yeah man, I totally get what you're saying. The sad fact is I do care how my group is percieved (because there are many more than I who will rise or fall based on that perception) and any attacks on the Group or me personally (as it's co-leader) - if left unanswered - simply sit as a detraction against me and/or everyone under me. I do believe that I have a very small, minute iota of a "duty" to these faceless internet avatars who belong to an imaginary group.. but moreso than that I believe I have a real duty to myself to not simply let "Amazing is a crack whore who fucks goats" sit unanswered as if it were some untouchable bastion of truth.

Well, something THAT extreme is a bad example, but it's never so obviously fraudulent. It's always something believable with these trolls, and it's always something that will cause damage. - That is, after all, their end goal.

Lucero chimed in on the most recent clash between MaulMachine and myself.. then low and behold a day or two later he's making a 'completely unbiased, good faith NPOV' edit to the top of the CDF page. It's bullshit and I call bullshit when I see it. That is to my own detriment in most cases, but I really have no interest in letting people get by with their idiotic baloney when I can so easily type: "Lies, here's why and here's proof."

Call me crazy. I don't think anyone would go to the trouble of creating a character on a game, rebuilding a group on a game, setting up websites for that group, and levelling up their character - if they really didn't care if those things were defamed and torn down in a matter of seconds by unchecked trolls. -- Amazing 06:26, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

No problem, I'm off to sleep as it is. Not that I'm saying I'm right and you're wrong (heh, that sounds incredibly lame, doesn't it? I mean it though.) but to me if you let "Amazing hacks the game to get five thousand AP" go unanswered, it simply means that some day soon another convo will include "Don't listen everyone, Amazing hacks the game to get five thousand AP. He never denied it!"

It's a stupid game, this Troll/Flamebait thing, but it's their game, and they're good at it. This bites me on the ass all the friggin' time'. Even with Lucero, to be current! I walked away from something, and he started demanding I link him evidence of my innocence to what he was accusing me of. (Guilty until proven innocent!) So I had to begrudgingly segue out of it AGAIN, which pretty much left Lucero to claim his little pissant victory and do a little Touchdown dance. You can of course see where that all ended up - A report for vandalism for something someone else did to me, in essense. But since he dishonestly claimed it to be "NPOV", working the system paid off and nothing was done about it. I bet now I even get banned for Archiving something. A new "Moderation/Archivalism" page will have to be created. lol. If I were a much lesser man, I'd hit all the major Group pages with an NPOV "Some people think that this group is not very good and there are Zergers in its ranks" because that's every group in existence. Luckily I'm not THAT small-minded... plus I'm positive that would get me banned as well. Heh. Eh, whatever. I guess I was due to be brought up for Vandalism charges again anyway. Maybe after this there will be a lull in the controversy.

Lucero started this "THERE IS A ZERGER IN CDF!!" thing on the CDF Discussion page with a mysterious, thinly-veiled loaded question. I didn't escelate it. I told him in a very basic manner to drop it. He didn't. I didn't give him anything to work with, he kept on, so I archived it. Walking away works, right? Well.. you can see where that led. -- Amazing 06:42, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

Denzel Washington's abuse/lies/vandalism/annoyance of BME wiki

I am the founder and president of BME. We kill people who PK, Zerg, and have multiple alts inside Bale Mall. Denzel Washington is one such person and now he is continuously (like 10 times a day) reverting our WIKI to a really old page and adding on the top of our page, under our missions statement, that WE are zergers,pkers, alts, etc which TOTALYY 100% goes against our whole concept and makes it VERY confusing to prospective members. I have asked him to stop lying and bring all discussion to the talk/discussion page but not to use alt/zerg/multiple/pk etc in his description of us as that is illegal under wiki rules without proof. I know he is an alt/zerger but even I don't say that about him.

You have already warned him once but he never stopped. Can you PLEASE ban him for 1 day or an hour or something? he is such a jerk and it has caused one of our leaders to quit the game as all he did was correct Denzel's vandalism. i don't mind him saying he hates us but he shouldn't be able to alter edit what we are about or our mission statement.

Recent rulings have shown that group wiki pages belong to that particular group and that they have the right to erase negative and false info posted on their site. I want to keep my page a homebase for our 35+ members and not have to be innundated with immature jerks who want to ruin our page.

PLEASE HELP

-- Legend X --

I apologize for reverting the BME page to an old version, since i didn't realize significant changes had been made. I've already sorted this out with Banana Bear4, and it's pretty much solved. Said this, i have proof of BME members zerging, and even if Legend X doesn't like it, he will have to recognize that the BME uses zerg accounts. Furthermore, i'd appreciate if he stopped saying i have zerg accounts, since i've only played a zombie and a survivor for some weeks now. Lastly, Legend X, i'd like a proof that i'm a "jerk". If you can't prove it, well... shut the fuck up. Thanks for your time, Oddstarter.--Denzel Washington 17:29, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

I await your proof that BME has ZERG accts. If you prove it I will kick all of those members out of BME. Please submit screenshots to me at my discussion page and STOP changing our mission statement. Also the one person you mention as a ZEGER is named Wayne Smith. Wayne Smith was attacked and killed by suspected ALF members using the names WayneSmith (no space) and Wayne Smith1 as a waytoassociate with Wayne Smith and get people to hate him. They killed him several times and the last was probably in mid-December. That is NOT prooof that Wayne Smith is a zerger just as if i created a character named DenzelWashington1, and used him to kill you, wouldn't prove that you are a zerger. I have taken ALL mentions of alt/zerg/alioas off our enemies list -as well as your description. i didn't know these terms were WIKI illegal. Furthermore as has been stated to you at least 25 times -STOP VANDALIZING OUR FRONT PAGE - if you have something to say then use the TALK page -- Legend X

Purdueohol's Complaint

--I may be new at this, but I still don't see your organization on this page
Anyway, I didn't vandalize anything on anyone. All I did was added a commentary to anyone who vandalized me, I never deleted or removed any information without approval. Anyone being an Ass that vandalized information on our group page that I and a few others maintain in order to keep our group members organized and informed about events in Urban Dead. Certain Members of your Wiki and not of my group have edited our group page and Vandalized it by deleting all/most Information on the page multiple times already. I only added commentary to these users on their actions when I loose sleep and time that I could use studying for finals and the like.

Although I am relatively new to the site, I did not know anything of moderators and other similar things on the site. I don't know anything about how you work, but I plan on reading. If such problems continue to occur to our group page, it will only frustrate me and my other users more. I had issued a disclaimer at the bottom of the page concerning such matters and the users editing such page should have known what they were walking into. If there is any confusion, I plan on editing this disclaimer to be more informative to detour such vandals.

Briefly, I did not know of Mods, My group page has been vandalized multiple times without retaliation by said Mods; I added comments on such users as a form of retaliation to the vandalism that occurred. At the time it was the most reasonable form of retaliation. I understand that Vandalism is frowned upon, I hate it as well, but with the current structure of the Wiki, other forms of retaliation or reporting were not obvious.

--Purdueohol 20:02, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

Wiki Policy

We desperately need to get everybody together, create some solid policy and behavior rules, and start enforcing them. I just finished another moderation involving Amazing, and if I have to do another like that I'm going to kill myself. I love the wiki philosophy as much as you do, but this is driving me insane. If we're too vague and permissive people get into huge edit wars and complain that we aren't doing our jobs, if we try to make a judgement call on policy people scream bloody murder and say we're abusing our power. And while we're hopping from one foot to the next, their inane bickering and faction disputes are tearing this place down. I started a new topic in policy discussions and I'll be posing policy ideas to see if people can live with them. Hopefully we can get them into place soon. --Zaruthustra-Mod 06:10, 2 March 2006 (GMT)

Zath what about some faggots like Grim, Denzel, Mover, ec altering the tiop of our home page saying we are zergers and such? It is not only 100% false but it is against our doctrine and mission statement. This false info has caused several prospective members to be come confised. We asked them to take discussion to the discussion page but they refuse. the vandalism WIKI clearly states that GROUP pages belong to the GROUP and guests should post flase or derrogatory claims in the NPOV section. I keep correcting it but it is getting old. --Legend X Legend X 14:04, 2 March 2006 (GMT)

Question: Has there been any discussion about adding to the policy that alt accounts, especially those used to evade a ban, are forbidden? In an e-mail, Kevan said, "There aren't actually any wiki rules against having multiple accounts, though, are there?", and it made me wonder. --Mia K ^(sotss) 01:18, 13 April 2006 (BST)

Also, I was chatting with Kevan, and he told me this interesting bit via e-mail. He gave me permission to post it here for you to see.

There is a wiki configuration option to allow moderators to ban ranges 
rather than single IPs, yes. I'm not sure how you're supposed to find 
out  the ranges in advance, though, I couldn't see any other config options 
for  displaying user IPs (normally a moderator just bans a user by name, and 
that user's IP gets blocked).
I'll dig through MediaWiki documentation when I've got some time to.

--Mia K ^(sotss) 12:19, 13 April 2006 (BST)

Thingy

Last i checked, information can go on the NPOV section so long as its true. I have proof of the claims, i posted it, and they keep removing it (Despite the fact that the NPOV section does not belong to them). If thats not vandalism then i dont know what is. The fact is that they are completely unwilling to compromise on this issue, im more than willing to let them colour it up, so long as they do not deny the basic fact that they tolerate zerging among their number (By colour it up i mean they can abandon the policy and change it to formerly tolerated). Now, here is the bottom line: Any group worth its salt would have detected such blatant zergs long ago and put a kill order out against them on their groups kill list IF THE ZERGS WERE MADE TO FRAME A MEMBER OR TWO. They did not, they have not, and i sincerely doubt they ever will. --Grim s 01:47, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

If they were one use only characters, why did several have exactly the same HP as expected from a recent revivee? --Grim s 02:35, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

The screenshot is not only NOT PROOF but it incomplete and cropped. That being said, even if it WERE a real screenshot it STILL wouldn't prove that Wanye or Donnie zerced. What part don't you understand idiot. I've explained it to you on my discussion page and on the vandalism page. You were all WARNED by admins but you don't stop! You CANNOT say that I am the same player as Logan X because there are over 2,000 players (out of around 250,000) that have the surname X AND we are in two toally different states. I am NOT him and you cannot say that I am on our WIKI. It's bullshit and you know it. OUR GROUP WIKI is used to give out news and show prospects who we are. We don't need losers coming on there and LYING about us just because they have an inferiority complex. Go start your owndamn page anbd call us fags and zergers and child molestors - I don't care. But don't ruin our page that we have all worked hard to create. You're a dishonest and immature person. --Legend X

Mr. Starter I just wanted to say, I saw your edit to the BME NPOV section and it was beautiful. It was actually from a neutral point of view. Can I start a revert war if I just revert it back to that?(I'm only half kidding) Anyway, keen job moderating. -Banana Bear4 02:29, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

Grim/Denzel/Mover/Banana Bear/etc. Odd has approved our NPOV section as of 9:30pm Thursday night 3/2/06/ PLEASE leave it as it is and go about your business. Thank you ODD for the help.--Legend X

Legend X, not only was i not warned (As there are absolutely no grounds to do so, since all i have done is restore the correct NPOV section, and history has shown i cant get beaten down for that by a moderator. I refer Odd Starter to the case of CthulhuFhtagn and Grim s Versus Skeletor, Zombie Squad Wiki page, which had a similiar case to this, though far more evidence was provided in the form of screenshots of posts from their forum before they closed it.), the fact is that i have made a claim, provided the proof, and now the burden of proof is on you to disprove my claims, a task you shall find phenominally difficult, i assure you. The reason the screenshot is incomplete is because large screenshots take up lots of space, and some of us dont like to drain our photobucket or imageshacks bandwidth limit quite so quickly as you do. The fact it is cropped does not indicate it is faked. Indeed, there is absolutely no way you can prove it is faked (And i assure you the screenie is completely legit) For an example of a faked screenshot, i refer you to this peice of work i made as a part of some RRF forum comedy. The fact of the matter is that i got the image from a friend who has a character in the area, and does not posess the knowhow to do such a screenshot. Also, as you can see, i am using a different firefox extension to him, so my screenies look different (Especially since i save mine in MS Paint). Next up is the fact that despite what you claim, and what you may believe, the NPOV section is not yours. You cannot do with it what you want. You can, however, add notices, such as "This is strongly denied", or remove things with no proof, such as claims of "Legend X picks his nose". What you cannot do is remove information that is posted whith sufficient proof, such as is provided with screenshots, regardless of their croppage. Also, the Legend X/Logan X connection is highly suspicious due to name similiarity, in game proximity, similiar orientation, and proximity of join date, with Logan X being created the day before Legend X. The only thing od is the fact that they dont share a real name (That field being left blank on Logan X), but that essentially proves nothing as you could have felt insecure the day before about handing out that info. --Grim s 02:33, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

As a note to all viewers, Legend X's claim that I have "approved" his version is not particularly meaningful. It is said in my role as a user. If you feel that you can improve his version further, I recommend to you that you do so. I also recommend that, if you do so, you consult with Legend X, and attempt to identify the best ways of improving the page. Teamwork and consensus, this is the way we should be improving our wiki. -- Odd Starter ^{talk | Mod | W!} 02:36, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

Odd, honestly i don't like the piece. Basically the BME washed their hands with mentioning it once, claiming there was no proof, and instead focused more on accusing their enemies of zerging. The proof was posted more than once, and it got deleted. I am going to change it, and with both the screenshots posted. I will add that i won't accept a ban for this, like moderator 'STER threatened, since there is no reason whatsoever to do so. Hopefully my version will be from NPOV enough. --Denzel Washington 13:16, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

Wikipedia's access to truth compared to ours

Well, I agree with you up to a point--there's more "truth" out there for Wikipedia than UD--but it's quite impressive how hard it can be to deal with the nutcases on Wikipedia. They can cite like mad (well, they are mad, so there you go), because nutcases can get published (self-published, sometimes). So in fact you can find sources to cite to "prove" that our weights and measures are part of a gigantic Celtic-Roman-Egyptian conspiracy. Not only that, but I have limited resources to cite to "disprove" the nutcase theory, because strangely enough the editors of Pauly-Wissowa didn't include an article "Conspiracy Nutcases, Refutation of" in their otherwise quite complete work.

So sadly I think that Wikipedia, bless it, is actually closer to the UD wiki than one might like. Most of the time both wikis are fair and reasonably factual--hooray for us.--Fred Dullard 04:45, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

Learn when it's vandalism and when it's a joke, or ban me, or whatever

I edited the Caiger Mall wiki as a joke, no harm was done. I continue to change it based on my own personal enjoyment and rivarly with Ron Burgundy, but I have not been disruptive (I guess that doesn't matter to beardos though). He can keep crying to the moderators about it I guess, that's probably why I've focused on killing him so much in the game. Hell, Burgundy himself changed my entry to read something he'd like it to say. Shave your beard man, it's a joke, and I didn't change anything that did any harm.

Search Odds

I noticed a discrepancy in one your Dec. 1 entry for Power Stations -- the total of items found and 'nothing' doesn't add to the total searches. Also, the pie graph numbers don't match the data that existed at the time of its creation. Bilge Monkey 22:18, 6 March 2006 (GMT)

Thanks for the Vouch

So what's next? --Nov ^{W!, Talk} 05:28, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

Location Style Guides

Quick question - should I get approval from the community in general for the Location Style Guides? They aren't exactly ready yet though. --Nov ^{W!, Talk} 13:47, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

Have a look at that style guide, and if you have no objections, please link it up to the Style guide section. I'll continue working on the rest of the location style guide next week, but at the moment, I'm trying to cut down the spam posted by Condraka. --Nov ^{W!, Talk} 14:14, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

Amazing

I know this is an odd question but I'm wondering if and when Amazing really became an aribitrator? --Tethran 10:30, 11 March 2006 (GMT)

Thanks for the answer. --Tethran 21:20, 13 March 2006 (GMT)

Proposal

As per the conversation on the talk page of the petition to ban the user Amazing, said user has agreed to cease and desist all trolling, baiting and flaming actions provided that the exact same standards be applied to but not limited those he has taken arbitration cases against concerning his person. I have agreed to examine and report all such incidents that would apply to the above and submit them to two unbiased mods for their approval on the pain of banishment if any involved party find me flagrantly abusing such a position towards a bias of any concerned party. The abuse would be determined by aformentioned mods or a predominance of the evidence. I ask for the approval and the enforcement of the agreement should all concerned parties agree to the terms. --Prosperina 05:55 23 April 2006 (BST)

I've made a page for a proposal that concerns the arbitration of Amazing's current cases here. --Prosperina 08:55 23 April 2006 (BST)

Your sig

I noticed that you are using | on your sig. I also noticed that it breaks templates (e.g. suggestion template) if signed inside them. Someone else had similar and it hid all votes after his. Fortunately you don't seem to be that active on succestions page :-) But it might be a good idea to change it to something different. --Brizth ^W! 19:59, 12 March 2006 (GMT)

Link Problem

Cheers

Hello,

I'm not sure if this is your area but anyway, I was following a link about the Xmas attacks in Molebank by the Minions and I got the following error message:

http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Molebank_Christmas_Attacks&diff=74730&oldid=74691

 Error
 From The Urban Dead Wiki
 The database did not find the text of a page that it should have found, named "Molebank Christmas
Attacks (Diff: 74691, 74730)". This is usually caused by following an outdated diff or
history link to a page that has been deleted. If this is not the case, you may have found 
a bug in the software. Please report this to an administrator, making note of the URL.

Was this caused by the link being to a difference in postings from December last year? Do histories get wiped permanently every year, or is there some other reason?--Celt Mac ɩreann 15:08, 13 March 2006 (GMT)

Hmm. QUITE A QUANDRY

Since I can't use the Vandal Report page, what should I do about this? I need an actual suggestion here. I got tired of his vandalism and started removing his posts and posting spoof lines with a highly obvious variation of his name (so as to avoid actual impersonation) but this is getting a bit silly now. Group's talk page is the group's "property" and all that.

My options are:

Let it go and completely void Group control over my Group's talk page.
Violate the arbitration ruling and report it anyway.
Keep reverting or deleting the spam for 30 days, then report it.
Jump into a wood chipper.

I think #4 would be most peoples' preference. -- Amazing 03:13, 15 March 2006 (GMT)

Wow.. Wrong again. I deleted his comments and posted my own comments under a name that was not his. It's not vandalism in any way, especially because it's a group page and the talk page is the domain of the group leadership.

I still cannot understand the Moderation team.. I mean, one day a Group leader can deleted everything I say on their Talk page becuase it's their domain. The next day I can't deleted posts from "Scinfaxi" and post a joke under the name "Buyataxi" or what have you. Again, I fail to understand this chaotic mish-mash of contradicting decisions. -- Amazing 07:08, 15 March 2006 (GMT)

Nnnno. Sorry, but I still do not believe that entirely deleting a paragraph and replacing it with a spoof sentence or paragraph is vandalism on the talk page for my group.

Basically you're acting as if saying "LOL I SUK - Kraven Darvis" is a bad faith impersonation of Kevan Davis instead of a satirical post.

I'll refrain from it from now on, but really your claim that it's vandalism is entirely baseless. First of all it's the talk page for the group I' co-run, secondly there was no confusing the post for Scinfaxi's actual words. EVER. Thirdly this amounts to deleting and replacing the post. The deletion is entirely within my rights. Replacing it with my own text, however, seems to be what you are Warning me for.

That's a pretty huge slab of baloney. Check out the page for McZeds and ban me for all those "Testimonials" I wrote. Those names are totally made up! -- Amazing 07:26, 15 March 2006 (GMT)

Ok Odd, I won't bait on the wiki

I didn't find the policy that says I can't communicate with him, but I'll stay out of your hair simply because Amazing is a dick and apparently gives you people far more grief than me. However, if Amazing wanys to keep posting shit about me, and then not expect a response, you can bet I'll have something to say about it on the talk page. Otherwise, I'm content to leave him alone on the wiki and just bother him in-game. Not sure what the policy is for truthfulness, there probably isn't one if Amazing is still here. Scinfaxi 07:22, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

Baiting in a promise not to bait. More baloney from one of many immature PKer kids who was mad he got listed for what he does. *shrug* Oh well. -- Amazing 04:54, 24 March 2006 (GMT)

Legend X

Um. I wasn't sure where to put this, and I've been keeping quiet for some time now since this really isn't my business, but...it seems as though Legend X is changing around what you and STER have said on his user talk page. It isn't really drastic, so I think I'll just link to those instances here.

[1]

[2] He seemed to mostly be 'trimming' his page here, but it does include an edit of your original message.

There was another case where he edited (removed) parts of someone's message, but it was on another talk page and was unrelated to the drama on his user talk. I thought I'd just mention this to you since mods were involved, and I didn't want to add it to vandal banning in case I was jumping the gun. So, um, yeah. --Blig 19:03, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

Lexicon

I started a project me and STER had been talking about called lexicon. Any help or feedback you could give would be appreciated. Check it out at Category:Lexicon.

Forgive and Forget

No. Not when i have evidence that strongly suggests that they still are cheating. If no one stands up to cheaters and exposes them for what they are then the entire conflict loses its meaning. The in game countermeasures have been shown time and time again to be ineffective against any cheater with even trace amounts of grey matter residing inside their skulls. The only solution is to raise awareness of these people and their crimes, and from there encourage people to not associate with these people, and to kill these people on sight in the game. --Grim s 11:00, 22 March 2006 (GMT)

You know what? I had a really long rant here about this, but I'm not going to be bothered. Put bluntly, I strongly, strongly desire a rule that states that zerging claims cannot be made in NPOV sections. They can't be proven, and they're the major issue in 90% of group page conflicts. Frankly, I despise your goddamn crusade, not because I'm a zerger, but because you stir up shit for no good reason. As a fellow user to a fellow user, I wish you would drop this goddamn crusade and realise that the harm and ill-will your crusade creates on this wiki more than outweighs any possible good it's doing (which isn't much, so far as I can tell). -- Odd Starter ^{talk • Mod • W!} 11:18, 22 March 2006 (GMT)

Not only have i proven it, but we have dragged out a fucking confession from one of them, and something that could pass for a confession from skeletor himself. This is completely proven. --Grim s 11:26, 22 March 2006 (GMT)

Out of how many cases? -- Odd Starter ^{talk • Mod • W!} 11:30, 22 March 2006 (GMT)

Both the leader and one of his lackeys in this particular case, which is why i am fighting so damned hard for it.

Confession 1: Lukehughs confessing. (If you can get into their forum you will most likely find that post, but they closed their forum to hide all the information from us (There is a massive pile more). Fortunately we took screenies of most of it, and if i ever dig through my photobucket again ill post it for you at your request.

Confession 2: Link. He doesnt seem overly concerned with the zerging. Here are two of his characters together in a building in Dulston. Here is him admitting that he places his characters in the same building (Providing each character with a meatsheild defense. If kevan wanted to allow people to occupy the same building with multiple accounts he would not have penalised peoples search rates in that circumstance. Also, this proves that the screenshot i took of his characters together is not faked). Here is him admitting that the characters in the screenshot above are his. --Grim s 11:52, 22 March 2006 (GMT)

Wrong question, actually, perhaps I was unclear. Of all the cases of zerging that you have pursued, how many of them resulted in a confession? How many times have you stirred the hornet's nest and actually managed to "win"? -- Odd Starter ^{talk • Mod • W!} 11:57, 22 March 2006 (GMT)

Several times, including a couple of cases at Caiger MK 1 where the zergers apologised and split up their characters. In any case, i fail to see the relevance of the question. Even if someone managed it only one time, it is still important that the truth be told. --Grim s 12:05, 22 March 2006 (GMT)

It's quite relevant. If you've attacked 100 people of zerging, and only 5 people have seen the error of their ways or admitted openly, then the tactics you use have antagonised 95 other people with no appreciable gain. If, of those 100, another 5 were false alarms, then you've caused considerable bad blood with 5 groups that should never have occured.

Witchhunts do more damage than good, in every case. Regardless of the truth (because frankly, I'm not a believer in the idea that the truth should be set free in every case), the damaging effects of your crusade wear down on each and every moderator that gets involved. In every case, you throw around these accusations, and in every case, there's denials, a massive edit war, moderator intervention, and for what? The truth? It's not worth it. It really isn't.

You're destroying what may have previously been good, productive relationships with potentially excellent wiki users over what effectively amounts to a transient game. A game that, when it shuts down, will mean that all that effort you have put in will literally amount to nought. The people you have antagonised and poisoned, however, will long remain. The amount of good you do, in the long run, will be zero, while the amount of harm you're doing will always be greater. -- Odd Starter ^{talk • Mod • W!} 12:29, 22 March 2006 (GMT)

In the case of me being wrong (Which has not happened as of yet), i will gladly back down and apologise. What you fail to realise is that i have a very thorough methodology, and i dont go ahead and lay down an accusation until i have done the following:

Identified all the possible zergs i can find.
Given them a chance to explain themselves (After which, if one dissapears and isnt found nearby, i report to the zerg liste on the Desensitised forums). An apology and the dissapearance of one or more of the characters is enough for me to not take it to the next step, or one or both explaining that they are not zergs.
The majority of zergs i report and accuse are numbered, like zuzi2, zuzu3, and zuzi4 (Actual zombie zergs i spotted in Darvall heights (They rattled at people in Crossman)), and TheRodeo, TheRodeo1, TheRodeo2, TheRodeo3, etc until TheRodeo8 (Confessed on Desensitised after i picked off two of his four zergs at and around Tynte Mall)
If i catch a confession, like for instance CDF Twinked saying in Tynte Mall that he would bring in Twinked, his revive alt, into the suburb to revivge the fallen and dispose of the zombies, i will screenie ity and report it. (I was not the person who caught that one).

After this, if it is clear that the group appears to sanction zerging activities i will call them on it. If not, i inform others of the zerger so that they may be terminated. You may not be interested in playing a clean game, but many other people are, and they fight to keep the game clean (Killing zergs by the dozens, there are literally hundreds of zergers out there, and the majority of them are human zergs, and in this game where zombies are outnumbered and outgunned, this is a serious problem). I did not start the BME edit war, and i dropped out of it quickly, simply because i created a page where the accusations could be aired in full, specifically to stop edit wars of this nature. This page is the Anti Cheater Alliance page. --Grim s 12:57, 22 March 2006 (GMT)

Modship

Thanks for the chance. I appreciate it no matter the outcome. (Though I do not intend to give any reason for a negative one. There may be a massive Moderator revolt, however!) lol :)

Thanks again. -- Amazing 05:26, 7 April 2006 (BST)

I want to go on record to state that I think this is a poor decision. I'm going to expand this to say that you are rewarding someone for extremely poor behavior. You have now set a precedent to say that any crybaby on the planet can make a huge stink about anything and eventually be rewarded with moderator powers. Should I start drama with someone now? Amazing has shown nothing but contempt and disgrard for the rest of the moderation staff, and somehow you think this makes him suitable? --Jorm 05:30, 7 April 2006 (BST)

If you'd like to chew my ear as per your concerns, feel free to contact me any time. I'd appreciate it, actually. -- Amazing 05:33, 7 April 2006 (BST)

My concerns are very simple. I think you are a childish, temper-tantrum throwing crybaby who does not comport himself with the maturity required to do this job. I think you're ill-suited in every respect and I do not trust your judgement one whit. Ta-da! --Jorm 05:38, 7 April 2006 (BST)

Alright! If you want to voice anything else, please feel free. (but perhaps use my talk page and not Odd's? It'll keep things neat for him.) -- Amazing 05:59, 7 April 2006 (BST)

Since I'm here I'll just ask one more question - Let's say someone I've delt with as a regular User blanks my user page 400 times. What do I do given my special circumstances?

Passing it off to another Mod means I'm not doing my job to the fullest.

Warning them might be seen as wrong since it's someone I've had trouble in the past.

Right now I'm thinking this: In this fake scenerio - where the deed is VERY obvious to everyone - what if I issue warnings but never Bans to people I have dealt with? This may result in 5 or 10 warnings, but then another Mod could jump in on the Ban if they indeed think it is warrented.

I don't plan on warning anyone unless it's obviously warrented, and I hope I don't have to.. I guess it's inevitable though. -- Amazing 05:33, 7 April 2006 (BST)

Come on man. I'm sure Amazing can behave himself for a week, especially since he can't moderate his own arguments, which is the whole root of his problem here. And even if he is a good mod, its in rather poor taste. I remember somebody saying our job was to enforce the will of the community, not fuck around for our own amusement. This wont prove anything, and it will just piss a lot of people off. --Zaruthustra-Mod 06:01, 7 April 2006 (BST)

I agree, it's in extremely poor taste. But frankly, I'm tired of Amazing saying how we should moderate this wiki, and there's not a lot of other options open to resolve this here.

The best case scenario is that Amazing shows, in his seven days, that he's a brilliant moderator. I take him off the Mod list, he goes through Promotions like everyone else, and while everyone may still hate him, he'll at least have good grounds to state that he's a good Moderator. We also get the Inverse Katthew effect in action, in which Amazing will (hopefully) moderate his own behaviour because he knows he's in a position which requires it.

The Worst case scenario is that Amazing goes absolutely apeshit on the wiki doing everything he can to fuck it up. In that case, Someone bans him (perhaps permanently), I de-mod him, we fix up the mess, Amazing is now no longer trusted by anyone, and while a great deal of drama ensues and I happily de-mod myself in shame, handing the Bureaucrat task to another Mod, in reality nothing's changed much and really, we've proved that Amazing has no right to take us to task.

Yes, I'll stake my Modship on Amazing. It's a stupid decision, in horribly poor taste, and quite likely entirely pointless. But of all the possible ways of dealing with this, this seems to be the one with the least repercussions. I cannot think of a single other option that deals with this as simply and as peacefully. I do realise that I've probably used up a great deal of the good-will I've saved up around here, from both the Mods and the regular User base. But I'm really at the end of my tether here. I'm this close to leaving the wiki, I'm not sure how much more I can take of this place. I'm certain that this isn't going to cause any lasting harm to anyone except myself. -- Odd Starter ^{talk • Mod • W!} 06:17, 7 April 2006 (BST)

Aww.. You said you might let me keep it. Well, that's okay. I mean, we both know I won't get through a Mod bid - no matter how I conduct myself - because my detractors will vote "No!" no matter what. But I'll enjoy my time, (civilly) I guess. Shame there's no more option to keep it. :( -- Amazing 06:19, 7 April 2006 (BST)

If you were at the end of your rope, you should have just banned him and be done with it instead of putting the wiki at risk like this. No one would have blamed you; in fact, you'd have been supported by nearly everyone here. This is horribly irresponsible.--Jorm 06:21, 7 April 2006 (BST)

Might I suggest voicing your disagreement, then waiting to see if anything adverse happens before further messaging Odd Starter or organizing those close at hand? At the moment, the only damage being done is keeping Moderators away from what they should be doing in order to keep track of the commentary. I think everyone here's opinion is known at the moment. -- Amazing _{Mod SGP UDPD McZed's™} 06:28, 7 April 2006 (BST)

I'm not talking to you. You can shut the fuck up. --Jorm 06:30, 7 April 2006 (BST)

In theory I could, Yes. Something to ponder! (seriously, though - I have no intention of dragging this out.) -- Amazing _{Mod SGP UDPD McZed's™} 06:45, 7 April 2006 (BST)

If I'd've banned him, without reason, that would've been worse. That sets off some horrible, horrible precedents. Amazing's annoying, but he's not a vandal. And I disagree that I've put the wiki at risk - Amazing is disliked, opinionated, ass-headed, and as annoying as fuck - but he's not stupid. He knows how many people are watching him. And I know, for a fact, that he's not likely to do anything that I can't fix up. Nothing he can do cannot be undone. Nothing. If he goes apeshit, I just fix everything up, ban him, and quietly de-mod him and myself, and the problem is resolved.

I'm at the end of my rope, but trust that I'm not stupid. I've done this for very good reasons. Yes, I've broken my own rules, and I know that a lot of people are going to be very angry at me for this. But I've not put the wiki at risk, and I hope that people here think at least enough of me to realise that I'm not taking a stupid risk here, and that I wouldn't put the bomb in the hands of someone who I thought would use it. -- Odd Starter ^{talk • Mod • W!} 06:47, 7 April 2006 (BST)

Amazing isn't a vandal? Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't want to put up with retards like myself on the wiki--we try to get at Amazing at the expense of your sanity, but he does vandalize under the guise of fixing "non factual" or "POV" or "slanderous" content. Look at the Crossman Defense Force page, it claims that our player group is run by one guy that zergs, while this is incorrect, if we tried to fix it(I think Rasher did in the past) it would spark yet another revert war which can only be won by persistence, not by truth. GANKBUS gave in and removed all potentially contentious information from our page because Amazing kept editing/reverting it to fit his ego. Not a vandal indeed. --Rueful 18:27, 7 April 2006 (BST)

To clarify, you lost an Arbitration case as per your page's content. I don't believe any mention of the CDF page has ever been made in a manner which is intended to beget any end result or compromise. Feel free to ask info be removed, or even demand it be removed. No one has yet. All that was done is a miniscule handful of edits that included putting pictures of cats on the CDF page. -- Amazing 23:20, 7 April 2006 (BST)

For real man, lets look how this ends.

1. Amazings great yaaay. Everything goes back to normal except now amazing really tells us how to do our job since he's hypothetically qualified (a logical fallacy but we'll ignore that). Happy day. Lots of people are mad at us now and theres more drama.

2. Amazing goes apeshit, gets banned. You resign and pass supermod to me or STER because we're the only ones here. We have even less moderation and possibly nobody running this place depending on whether I'm on consistantly or if STER ever comes on again. Lots of people are mad at us now and theres more drama.

Awsome. --Zaruthustra-Mod 06:32, 7 April 2006 (BST)

3. Amazing is great yaay. Things go back to normal. Amazing recieves more credit than the 0.00% he recieved before. :) (Note: I mistakenly placed this above Zar's sig, I think. Corrected.) -- Amazing _{Mod SGP UDPD McZed's™} 06:45, 7 April 2006 (BST)

Maybe. I'll grant that your scenario is just as likely. But god, this is a fucking nightmare situation, and I have to do something. If you and any other mod who's watching really want me to reverse this, fine. Let it not be said that I'm not going to listen to others. I made the deal with Amazing, but I'll freely admit that maybe it wasn't a deal I was allowed to make. I'll take the blows, right here, right now. I'm not a megalomaniac. If another Mod yells at me, I'll stop this right now. -- Odd Starter ^{talk • Mod • W!} 06:47, 7 April 2006 (BST)

Odd Starter. You have been reported for misconduct. You may defend yourself there, but you are clearly in violation of the rules you yourself put forward. --Grim s 06:42, 7 April 2006 (BST)

I doubt it'll 'break the wiki' or that amazing will make a particularly large mess if any and I won't call for your resignation on this, and if you get stripped of modship, I'd happily vouch for you to get it back. But to be honest you could dealt with this better by communicating it with the community before hand.--Vista ^W! 18:58, 7 April 2006 (BST)

Amazing has been reported for breaking the wiki rules... already. --TheTeeHeeMonster 00:48, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Not saying much since it's a false report based on the letter of the rules themselves. -- Amazing 00:49, 8 April 2006 (BST)

I haven't been around so I'll just say it flat: What the FUCK were you thinking? --Slicer 00:48, 8 April 2006 (BST)

People - Please stop bothering Odd. If you want to complain about me please don't simply annoy the snot out of Odd. Feel free to annoy the snot out of me. Bothering Odd isn't likely to do much of anything. -- Amazing 00:51, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Misconduct

Yes, that much is pretty obvious. What to do about the "copyrighted" image derivatives is less clear. I think we should delete them just to get the whole thing done with. Amazing was the one who opened up the pandora's box of copyright law, and now everybody is screaming fair use. Never mind that accomplished legal scholars can't agree on this, nobody here knows their ass from a hole in the ground on the subject. --Zaruthustra-Mod 02:06, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Well, if you toss him for misconduct, then the image isn't necessary anymore, is it? Well played, Odd; Amazing fried his own ass almost instantly. --Slicer 02:08, 8 April 2006 (BST)

I don't think deleting one image in a way that violates no rules is frying anything. *shrug* -- Amazing 02:16, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Congratulations

You managed to save your ass without me violating any rules. Win-win.

You said you Modded me so that I could "show you how to do it" - in other words, you wanted to give me a chance to do my peice and then you could see if I was wrong or right about the Mods.

My mod actions included Wiki service and deleting an image that violated the rules of this Wiki.

At no time did I break any rules. The deletions page text more than supports me on this.

Instead, you've proven my point that you Mods are useless. You got rid of the one person that was enforcing the Wiki rules strictly, and did not violate any rules.

You wanted to prove me wrong - but you've validated my statements beyond even my own expectations. -- Amazing 02:22, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Congrats, Odd! You managed to make us all love you again by ruling that Amazing did indeed violate the rules. Have a cookie!--TheTeeHeeMonster 02:24, 8 April 2006 (BST)
P.S. - Amazing, what happened to "don't annoy the snot out of Odd?" Does that only apply when he does something you like?

Actually, that applies in a growing war of words. You know that. Don't skew things. ;) No rule was violated, and no one can or has cited anything I violated. No one has cited the text I violated, because there is none. -- Amazing 02:27, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Amazing, stop complaining. There was a sizable section of the community that didn't think you deserved to be a Mod anyway. Furthermore, you failed to be as "fluffy bunny nice" as when you thought you were untouchable while you were a temp-Mod. Therefore, you've proven that you will not change your attitude on the wiki- you still put your drama and snarkiness on here, therefore proving you will never become a Moderator through the proper process anyway. Goodnight, stew well! --Karlsbad 05:45, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Actually I simply did a Mod action. Inaction is required to be a Mod, so I was removed. Barharharhar. As for stewing - You stewed when I was a Mod - now that I'm not, I can go back to setting up the Wiki for my online game, as I was right before I got Modded. -- Amazing 06:02, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Well, its a good thing you don't care about the UD wiki; it just provides more proof that you are neither responsible nor mature enough to manage it. However, I am sure that your game and your wiki will be taken and crafted to the point that is far more your type. --Karlsbad 06:05, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Hmm. I don't think I said I don't care about the UD wiki. Nor did I allude to it. It really seems like you have a comprehension problem. I'm not being silly or mean. I actually see you replying with things I've never said, and it happens a lot. -- Amazing 06:12, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Oh, pardon me, I see you were not informed. We (the acceptable wiki community) are now operating on the "New Criticism" style, remember? As in it doesn't matter what the author intended, it only matters that the popular and interesting concensus considers it correct. Therefore, when you said "as for stewing- now that I'm not, I can go back to setting up the wiki for my online game, as I was right before I got modded", it is interpreted as someone attempting to proove that they are above such acts as stewing, and are therefore too haughty, stuck up, and inflicted with an inflated sense of entitlement. Your personal defense is far to biased to have any meaning. Therefore, your best bet would be to stop attempting to add anything to the wiki, as has been proven over and over again, you can do nothing without inflicting your painfully personal opinion on the subject, which is neither agreed upon or considered interesting to the popular consencous. --Karlsbad 08:00, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Actually, I've created two of the most supported things on this Wiki. And yeah, you don't get to put your own meaning behind my words. That's your own know-it-all egomania showing through. -- Amazing 18:18, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Warning Template

sup Odd.

i was looking at the template:Warning thing, and found out that if you use the subst: command you will add the entire content of that page to the one you are using this template at. EVEN those lines in the <noinclude> tag. I think that this template should be tweaked a little before being placed to use, because as it is right now it will tag everyone as a template when you use it. Well, we can always remove teh noinclude thing to the talk page... but thats a cheap sollution --hagnat ^{talk • wcdz} 05:30, 8 April 2006 (BST)

i was just thinking now. Have you tried it with the includeonly tag ? Perhaps this way it will work. --hagnat ^{t • w} 04:49, 11 April 2006 (BST)

Curiousity

You're probably aware that I recently withdrew my run for mod. Since I know the thing's not completely reliant on what the community thinks (Page says it's not a vote), I'm just curious as to whether or not I had a chance. You know, something to keep in mind. And if I didn't, could you let me know what I should improve on? Oh, and reply here, please. I'll be watching. --Mia Kristos 07:52, 8 April 2006 (BST)

New Stuff On the Moderation/Promotions page, I saw you bold some of the times. I was just wondering why. --Sirens^{T RR} 12:19, 27 April 2006 (BST)

I thought it might be something like that. Thanks for satisfying my curiousity. ^^ --Sirens^{T RR} 15:41, 27 April 2006 (BST)

Bureaucracy

Just to mention that I've removed your bureaucrat flag, at least for the time being. --Kevan 08:41, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Surprise meter not registering. --Slicer 13:55, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Better late than never. Most of these Mods are the worst bunch I've ever seen. It's a shame I had to be dragged into the process of proving at least one of them inept. -- Amazing 18:20, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Modship

I look forward to the withdrawl of your decision, and your petitioning for my Moderator status to be re-enacted as per your vow on the Misconduct page.

Thank you. -- Amazing 20:04, 8 April 2006 (BST)

K. I wanted to know if you'd honor it - and I'll take your word that you would have. -- Amazing 18:20, 9 April 2006 (BST)

Template

I got bored of listening to people bicker so I made another template. Check it out! --Zaruthustra-Mod 23:29, 8 April 2006 (BST)

	Bureaucrat
	This user is a Bureaucrat.

That image your property or public domain? -- Amazing 23:37, 8 April 2006 (BST)

Hmm, although given the circumstances I guess it won't see much use. And yes amazing, its from wikimedia commons I believe. --Zaruthustra-Mod 23:46, 8 April 2006 (BST)

K if you "believe" it rather than "know" it, I guess it's true. -- Amazing 00:43, 9 April 2006 (BST)

Well I'd think believing is like assuming [3] --TheTeeHeeMonster 00:54, 9 April 2006 (BST)

Figure of speech. You people are the worst "gotcha!" trolls ever. Pick something that isn't obviously wrong and then run with THAT. -- Amazing 01:01, 9 April 2006 (BST)

Obviously something you would never dream of. It was on my hard drive from an old old project, and I'm almost sure it was from wikimedia commons. If anybody shows that its copyright I'll gladly remove it. --Zaruthustra-Mod 01:05, 9 April 2006 (BST)

Sorry, all I heard was "Mod mod mod, Mod mod mod!! Mod mod." Stupid Mod-Face. -- Amazing 19:06, 11 April 2006 (BST)

Barnstars

You'll have to be quicker than that! It did give me an idea though. We should start UD themed barnstars. --Zaruthustra-Mod 02:26, 11 April 2006 (BST)

Thanks

Odd Starter, just a note to say Thanks. I'm sure there is a great deal we probibly disagree about structually and re: game play, but In an atempt to redirect some of the tone that is currently percolating through the Wiki community I would like to say thank you for volunteering to help make this Wiki beter, despite any differnce in opinion we may or may not have. Conndraka 17:29, 12 April 2006 (BST)

Magic Words

mornin' Odd.

i was trying to call a template inside a template, only to fail miserably in something i should already know that was supposed to be imposible. You see, i am working in this map template, that is really generic and people could fancy burbs as they wish. So... here is the thing, for the Suburb page, there would be 4 types of colors (like in the talk page of the template). But in order to make things easier, i was thinking here about creating Magic Words for that. Can mods create them ? If they could, this template and some few magic words would make things really really easy to maintain in the suburb page.

--hagnat ^{t • w} 05:24, 16 April 2006 (BST)

n00bness!

I managed to navigate to the welcome-group page by sheer accident, though I've been reading through lots of Urban Dead Wiki content for the past couple of months. The problem is that I've never really /edited/ a wiki before, and I was hoping someone could point me towards info on that. XD It's one thing to read all kinds of great info about what the game is about, and to remember all of the coding tricks and such to make a half-decent page!

I'm not even really sure to go to talk with people, though I'm guessing that here is a good bet? How do new people like me get in to contact with experienced users like you? The Project Welcome page seems aimed at poking old-timers in to helping others out, but I didn't find any info on how new users can initiate their own pleas for help.

So... um... help?

Hello! I'll let Odd Starter get with you on the details, but I can point you here: Help:Contents. We've been working on fleshing that section out over the last few days. Welcome to the Wiki and such! --Mia K ^(sotss) 02:04, 17 April 2006 (BST)

And Might I suggest (from personel experience) that you look over the Location Style Guide that Nov came up with, before editing or adding any new pages. Welcome and don't let the Drama scare you. Conndraka 07:55, 17 April 2006 (BST)

Moderation

just a heads up but I'm trying for modship (all the cool kids are doing it)--Vista ^W! 13:44, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Arbiter

If you could arbitrate on Amazings billion cases it would help. Theres so many plaintiffs that nobody will agree on a nuetral party. --Zaruthustra-Mod 03:01, 20 April 2006 (BST)

It was ONE case concerning the ONE problem of ongoing harassment by many users. It was SPLIT into a 'billion cases' without my being asked, much less approving of it. -- Amazing 03:32, 20 April 2006 (BST)

moderator moving suggestions

Sorry to bother you, but I've got a question, You know something about this?

It's point two of the closed suggestion intro template

Suggestions with a rational Vote tally of 2/3 Keeps over total of Keeps, Kills, and .5 x Spams will be moved to the Peer Reviewed Suggestions page by a moderator, unless the original author has re-suggested the Suggestion. -emphasis mine-

A user on the suggestions page came across it and asked for a mod to move a peer reviewed suggestion from the previous to peer reviewed, I find it strange because why whould it need to be a mod moving those suggestions? It's not like it's sensitive material that needs somebody extra trustworthy to handle, it's just normal maintance, and the mods time is better used elsewhere. Is it that I'm horribly out of touch, or is it just the template? anyway I'd welcome your imput on this because back in the day Squashua used to do it and he wasn't a mod and I seem to have missed the rule change.--Vista ^W! 19:25, 20 April 2006 (BST)

Arbitration

I had one case covering the general "Stop trolling me" subject. I am only one person, and despite what people think, I don't spend all day on here. I will respond to cases when I can do so with full dedication to that specific case, and no sooner. This is an effort to splinter my case and issue mass decisions in favor of the trolls I'm reporting when I can't possibly keep up on all of the different cases that have been created with the same attention I would have been able to give one blanket "keep these people away from me, please" case. -- Amazing 02:39, 22 April 2006 (BST)

Well, as has been said, the rules of the page don't actually mention an Arbitrator should be chosen first. That came to light (to me, and I'm sure others) AFTER and during this case I've posted. In the past, it was a matter of "as long as one person doesn't dismiss the arbitrator", as you well know. Now it's "changed" in terms of the understanding of folks who didn't realize arbitrators had to be chosen first. -- Amazing 02:49, 22 April 2006 (BST)

Hey Odd, I need you to settle my problems, because I'm obviously not capable of doing this like a sane and normal human being. I live in my parents basement. Anyways, I don't consent to any arbitration concerning Amazing, I'm not going to wait until he gets off his period to get my case settled. How do I go about having my name removed from the arbitration page? Also, if anything goes to moderation, I'll still get to present a defense to the moderator right? Scinfaxi 06:16, 22 April 2006 (BST)

You're on the page for as long as it takes for me to get to it, because my case was splintered and broken apart without my permission and I must now deal with each one of you seperately. I need my full attention on each case now as I get to it. Also, my period is none of your concern. Just because you missed yours doesn't give you the right to criticize. Congrats on the bundle of joy to you and Rasher, btw. -- Amazing 06:21, 22 April 2006 (BST)

No, I don't agree to any arbitration at all under any conditions, so I'm off the page (you can't arbitrate a dispute when one party doesn't agree to anything). That's like rape, minus the sexual contact. Therefore, you and me aren't arbitrating anything (maybe in the future, if you bribe me with the material goods I crave). Also, I'm not Rasher's baby's daddy, because we're both men. Scinfaxi 06:29, 22 April 2006 (BST)

If you decide to actually thwart arbitration, it just shows you as the wrong party of the two of us. So would you like to hand me that victory? And I was alledging you were Rasher's Baby-Momma, not Daddy. -- Amazing 06:38, 22 April 2006 (BST)

More Stuff

Would you mind contacting me via IM? My screennames are listed on my user page. --Sirens^{T RR} 06:40, 22 April 2006 (BST)

Attempt to find resolution and common ground

Because of the near perfect split on the discussion of Language an Offensive Users I created a page where maybe we can find an acceptable solution. If not, well at least I tried. Page can be found Moderation/Locational Language/Interaction I took on the mantle of responsible party so that even the MODs can state thier ideas and opinions. Conndraka 19:09, 22 April 2006 (BST)

Misconduct

Amazing has reported me for misconduct, and i would appreciate you rendering a verdict on the case. --Grim s-^Mod 08:28, 23 April 2006 (BST)

Harassment Policy

Hey Odd. Check out the finished draft of a Harassment policy Wyndallin and I have put together here. Leave your feedback on either his talk page or mine. --Cyberbob240^{CDF - Arb - W!} 13:38, 23 April 2006 (BST)

Well? Are you going to or not? --Cyberbob240^{CDF - Arb - W!} 15:49, 23 April 2006 (BST)

You:

Honestly, we moderators have very few duties, and I'd like to keep it that way, because the more duties we have, the less duties regular users are willing to perform. I see constantly that, should a responsibility of a particular user be born by external forces, the less likely that user will work towards shouldering that responsibility.

The Petition:

Three members of the community, on an entirely voluntary basis, will be promoted to Moderator status on the condition that the only abilities they have are to rule on Cases, and ban when appropriate. Use of any other Moderator ability would be Misconduct, and would result in de-modding and a three day tempban.

This policy could potentially work in tandem with the Arbitration system, with harassment having to move through the Arbitration system first.

Me:

Um?

Wyndal ^{(talk)-(W!)-(SGP)} 02:33, 25 April 2006 (BST)

I'm ambivalent on your analysis of the problem, Odd. I completely disagree that users are mature enough to solve their own issues. Look at the Arbitration page. Scinfaxi won't even agree to arbitration, Arbitration results are being violated... And then there's the pages that are basically warzones. This isn't a wiki about Malton, this is a wiki in Malton. Users cannot be trusted to solve their own problems, or when solved, stick to the solutions. It's a relatively small percentage of users that suffer from this sort of juvenilism, but how much attention does it get when compared to actual wiki issues? -Wyndal ^{(talk)-(W!)-(SGP)} 03:04, 25 April 2006 (BST)

Absolutely. I apologize for distracting you. -Wyndal ^{(talk)-(W!)-(SGP)} 03:36, 25 April 2006 (BST)

HTML vs. XHTML

Wikimarkup: Essentially shorthand for XHTML.
XHTML: Raw, and unwieldy, but immensely powerful.
HTML: Deprecated, and heavily discouraged by the W3C.

I'm sure you're wondering; "Yeah… what's your point?" The point that I'm trying to raise is that there is a lot of HTML on this wiki which really should be converted to XHTML. There are flaws within the HTML specification that allow ambuguity for some user agents. Not a good thing, I'm sure you'll agree.

Apart from asking people politely to use XHTML instead of HTML, is there anything else that can be done? –Xoid ^S•T•FU!

Arbitration

Take a look at it Odd. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scinfaxi (talk • contribs) 23:26, 23 April 2006 (BST).

Moderation/Promotions

Done and done. – Nubis ^NWO 06:00, 27 April 2006 (BST)

Streets Template

Yeah, I tried all that stuff too. I've kinda given up for now, until we can figure out how to do it some other way --Sirens^{T RR} 03:42, 28 April 2006 (BST)

Category redirects

Hey there! I did a quick test, and no. Making a a redirect of a category only redirects the viewer to a different page, but pages put into that category are still listed under it and don't get carried over. It's your call though. Misza ^(talk) 17:02, 1 May 2006 (BST)

Too many choices! where do I put this?

The Urban Dead Wiki:Outbreak Lexicon

What is this? What is it about? Please shorten the premise. --Celt Mac Éireann • ^{talk • W!} 20:28, 3 May 2006 (BST)

Missing signature

You forgot to sign your vouch for cyberbob on promotions page... --Brizth ^{mod T W!} 00:53, 11 May 2006 (BST)

Please don't shoot me over this...

Odd Starter's Talk Page

Three things:

I finally got around to looking inside an intersting template that Uncyclopedia uses. I've raided the raw code, and used it here. (Customisation of the template is necessary for it to work under MediaWiki 1.5x, but these alterations are very easy.) You've probably already noticed what it does. Do you think it would get any legitimate use here? (This is what the choice of the heading's name is about.)
You'll have to point me to this template, since I can't really find it. -- Odd Starter ^{talk • Mod • W!} 12:59, 14 May 2006 (BST)
Check the top of the page. "User talk:Odd Starter" isn't there. It says "Odd Starter's Talk Page". It works for Firefox, and works for IE. That's what the div under this heading does. (You'll need to wait until the page loads this heading for it to change, which is why the <div> should always be at the top in practice. But I left it under this heading so you'd see it easily if you wanted to delete it, move it, etc. Note: while editing the page it looks wonky, AFAIK it looks fine otherwise.) –Xoid ^S•T•FU! 13:09, 14 May 2006 (BST)
Ah... I missed that completely. I can see a certain amount of use in Userspace, but I'm uncertain as to whether it's at all useful anywhere else. I'm certainly not going to do much about it for the moment myself... -- Odd Starter ^{talk • Mod • W!} 13:34, 14 May 2006 (BST)
I noticed your vote. It's entirely valid criticism. Frankly, everything Grim said about his choice to stand up for selection applies to me. It's understandable about your faux pas with promoting Amazing — being a moderator/sysop/admin/etc. is a burden, one that I would prefer not to shoulder if others can step up to the mark, but there simply aren't enough you guys at the moment.
And I'm happy for you to step up. As I said, I think you have most of the qualities that I consider make a good sysop. Just I'd probably be more comfortable if the process had been postponed another couple of weeks, and your personality better... integrated with the community. -- Odd Starter ^{talk • Mod • W!} 12:59, 14 May 2006 (BST)
I got nominated. There ain't much I can do about that except withdraw it. Keeping it up there, if it gets shot down, gives me the opportunity to see what I've got to work on other than what has already been mentioned. –Xoid ^S•T•FU! 13:09, 14 May 2006 (BST)
And I've already forgotten the third thing while I was writing those two. Must not have been important then. –Xoid ^S•T•FU! 11:17, 14 May 2006 (BST)

User talk:Odd Starter/Inbox Archive

Question Re:Categories

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Specific building names

TY

Policy Decision

Yep

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Purdueohol's Complaint

Wiki Policy

Thingy

Wikipedia's access to truth compared to ours

Learn when it's vandalism and when it's a joke, or ban me, or whatever

Search Odds

Thanks for the Vouch

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Amazing

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Link Problem

Hmm. QUITE A QUANDRY

Ok Odd, I won't bait on the wiki

Legend X

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Magic Words

n00bness!

Moderation

Arbiter

moderator moving suggestions

Arbitration

More Stuff

Attempt to find resolution and common ground

Misconduct

Harassment Policy

HTML vs. XHTML

Arbitration

Moderation/Promotions

Streets Template

Category redirects

Too many choices! where do I put this?

Missing signature

Please don't shoot me over this...

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