Suggestion:20071024 Rename Crucifix Holy Symbol

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	This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Peer Rejected.

20071024 Rename Crucifix Holy Symbol

The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 09:38, 24 October 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type
Item change
Suggestion scope
Those infernal crucifixes!
Suggestion description
Crucifixes should be renamed. I propose that, following other media, they should simply be renamed "Holy Symbol". Having them as Crucifixes simply discriminates against approximately 70-80% of the worlds population who are not, in fact, Christian. With them as holy Symbol, everyone can roleplay their own religious fanatics with them, without being limited to the crucifix, which is undeniably Christian.

Credit goes to Funt Solo, who made the comment in a vote on a previous suggestion.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep/Change - only makes sense. However, 'Faith Symbol' or 'Religious Symbol' would be less of a loaded term than 'Holy'. --Pavluk ^{A! E!} 09:58, 24 October 2007 (BST)
2. Keep - Makes sense. --Seventythree^Talk 10:57, 24 October 2007 (BST)
3. change - make em religious sybols and save argument from the athiests ;) --Honestmistake 11:30, 24 October 2007 (BST)
4. Keep - I only meant it as a passing comment in a vote, but you know, the response of the kill voters is pretty amazing - such vitriol over such a little suggestion. If I didn't know better... (Voting Keep because I agree with HonestMistake.) --Funt Solo 19:56, 24 October 2007 (BST)
5. Keepish - Delete it or call it religious symbol. I don't really care either way.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 22:35, 24 October 2007 (BST)
6. Keep Good Idea, and I agree with above that it should be Religious Symbol. I hate the fact that most thing sonly try to appeal only to a certain, usually small and/or biased audience and leave out the rest. --Prof. Latirus 01:28, 25 October 2007 (BST)
7. keep most definitely, I agree with grim 100% The man 19:42, 25 October 2007 (BST)
8. Keep - If it has to exist at all, it may as well be compatible with any religion... Captain Winters 06:00, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - Get rid of the damn things altogether. Useless little bit of religious flavor, and we all see where religion gets us. :P.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 11:29, 24 October 2007 (BST)
2. What about the fact there are no "non-Christian" BUILDINGS? I suppose that might be "linking" but I think they could go together.--Pesatyel 12:21, 24 October 2007 (BST)
3. - Who actually cares that much? Jonny12 ^talk 12:43, 24 October 2007 (BST)
4. Kill - As suicidal angel.Studoku 12:57, 24 October 2007 (BST)
5. Kill - This reeks of design by committee. Instead of having one flavor item some people don't like, we can have an utterly generic flavor item that everybody can hate equally. Then we can rename pubs "alcohol distributories", Malton can be "Large Metropolitan City", and churches will be changed to "nondenominational faith enclosures". --Zaruthustra^Mod 13:08, 24 October 2007 (BST)
6. Kill - Death by committee. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 13:25, 24 October 2007 (BST)
7. Kill - No.--  Savant  Chit-Chat  13:28, 24 October 2007 (BST)
8. Kill - How come nobody ever gets offended by vampire movies when somebody carries around a crucifix? I vote no, for the same reasons as Zaruthustra. --Uncle Bill 14:24, 24 October 2007 (BST)
9. Kill - Lets replace them with images of Muhammad, wouldnt that be FUN?!? But seriously, who the fark cares? Anyone who gets offended by crucifixes, on either side of the fence, has a bit of a problem, IMO... Sides, if we took away crucifixes, we would lose one the UD wiki's most important "cultural" activities (just after trenchcoating; insulting trenchcoaters; and debating byzantine wiki policies, of course): i.e., shooting down crucifix suggestions. --WanYao 14:31, 24 October 2007 (BST)
10. Kill- what the fuck, find it 'offensive', i not a Christian and i don't find it offensive. stop being overly sensitive about two pieces of wood being stuck together to make a cross.--Skyvia 14:34, 24 October 2007 (BST)
11. Kill - Zaruthustra makes a good point, and I'd rather get rid of the thing. --Zombieslay3r 14:36, 24 October 2007 (BST)
12. Kill because I don't want to vote down idiotic HOLY/RELIGIOUS SYMBOL suggestions. The name changes nothing beyond making suggestions to give them magical powers longer to read. Antitribu 15:23, 24 October 2007 (BST)
13. Kill - As above. Glenstone 15:54, 24 October 2007 (BST)
14. Kill - Christianity/Catholicism is the religion primarily used to fight evil supernatural creatures, so if the silly things have to be in the game, they should be crucifixes/crosses. But honestly, as they have no genuine function, I'd rather be voting on taking them out of Urban Dead altogether.--Actingupagain 17:28, 24 October 2007 (BST)
15. Weak Kill - I like the idea of de-politicizing the issue, however, I would rather vote to have it right out removed from the game --Ryiis 18:16, 24 October 2007 (BST)
16. Kill - this entire discussion is dumb-- Liam Degen 18:51, 24 October 2007 (BST)
17. Kill - "something witty"--'BP^Tmz 20:00, 24 October 2007 (BST)
18. Kill As Zaruthustra. I'd find it kind of funny if two or three synagogues and a mosque were added to Malton, but the risk of hate speech graffiti is probably too high. --Jon Pyre 20:52, 24 October 2007 (BST)
19. Kill - then church is not a correct word either. how about "holy building"? quite lame. but without it there's no much need to rename the crucifix either --~~~~ [talk] 21:24, 24 October 2007 (BST)
20. Kill - As Pesatyel, but this isn't spam. BoboTalkClown 22:02, 24 October 2007 (BST)
21. Kill - Zaruthustra pretty much summed it up. You can't kill Christmas, Grimch Grinch! --Kikashie ^ELT 22:53, 24 October 2007 (BST)
22. Kill - I'm an agnostic and I don't care if somebody wants to run around Malton with a cross necklace. Perhaps they should add an Invisible Pink Unicorn necklace, though... --Howard Bentley 23:43, 24 October 2007 (BST)
23. Kill Doesn't make sense, Malton only has churches, the crucifixes are only found in churches, why would you call it a "holy symbol"?--Roger Thirnell 23:58, 24 October 2007 (BST)
24. Kill - No. That is quite retarded. --Shatterspike1 00:51, 25 October 2007 (BST)
25. Kill- As Duke Garland. --Vkkhamul^{T! A! FU! U} 04:08, 25 October 2007 (BST)
26. Kill - Crucifixes should just be taken out. However, crucifix necklaces should be left ingame. and, by the way, the crucifix is a catholic, not christian, symbol. The cross is a christian symbol. --Sonofagun18 06:17, 25 October 2007 (BST)
27. Kill - This would make sense if Malton wasn't in the English speaking part of the world, but as it is, it's just another stupid suggestion to make the game more politically correct. Should I vote spam if it's just stupid? --8 Bucks 16:36, 25 October 2007 (BST)
28. Kill - You all know how I feel about anything politically correct.--Sarah Silverman 21:32, 25 October 2007 (BST)
29. Kill – N to the big O. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 22:36, 25 October 2007 (BST)
30. Kill - 70-80%? And may I ask what hat you're pulling that percentage out of? Or are you basing off of the internet community itself? Biased statistics aside, why the hell do "crucifixes" perturb you, or anyone else so much? I suppose that we should disband all religious figures/churches/etc in real life as well, because the very sight of them is insulting to all other "non-Christians" living in the same neighborhood. My point is, it isn't that big of a deal, and it seems to me that the general populace has no real problem with the fact that there are churches residing around Malton. In fact, it's realistic, seeing as Malton is a European/American-based city, and such places are plentiful around such neighborhoods. Hell, as said above, why don't we sanitize everything that could potentially damage and/or insult someone as being "prejudice" or religious in nature? Let's destroy the bars! The Stadium! AHEM: My final point is, in an attempt to steer this post away from being too flamey and/or dramatic, that Crucifixes aren't much of a problem. At least, so far, all I've seen them do to the community is create useless suggestions. MINI-EDIT:Searching through the internet, I have found that Christianity holds about 30 percent of the world's population in terms of religion, which makes your statement somewhat factual. However, my statement on the fact that Malton is a European/American City still stands.--Private Mark 03:19, 26 October 2007 (BST)
31. Kill - It serves no purpose whatsoever.--Etherdrifter 23:17, 27 October 2007 (BST)
32. Kill - What I've read indicates that 65-67% of the world are non-Christian, not 70-80%. And the world doesn't play UD, english speakers do, since it's a text-based game in english. That would put potential or actual UD Christians at a much higher percentage. I've read that 67-88% of the UK population identify as Christian, Australia at 71%, and the US at 80-88%. Oh, and Christian references play a massive part in the zombie genre - Revelations, "no more room in Hell," etc. By the way, Sonofagun18, Catholics are Christians, and the crucifix is a Christian symbol. There are also Protestant Christians who prefer plain crosses, but obviously both are direct references to Jesus Christ - thus - Christian. But if you want to get rid of religion in Malton, while we're at it, let's eliminate all the Malls, because they offend the anti-capitalists (the majority of the world's population are poor and exploited), the Police Stations (most people in the world don't like cops), etc. Maybe we'll still have Fire Stations at the end of it all. But no Arms or Pubs or whatever you want to call them - the temperance societies will throw a fit. Clay5x 12:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

    Hold up Clay5x, I'm on your side. I'm a Christian and the last thing I want to do is remove religion from UD. I just think it would make more sense to just have crucifixes in necklace form. Also I see your point about catholics/crucifixes being Christian. The thing is when I said Christians I was referring to protestant Christians. --Sonofagun18 05:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

33. Smite Props to Suicidal Angel, Etherdrifter, and Clay5x. You did my ranting for me. Down with PC!!! ~A`Blue`Jelly^TME*V*I*L*_? 04:22, 29 October 2007 (UTC) PS: Oh, I forgot, Zaruthustra, I think you're thinking UUism for those "Faith Enclosures"...
34. Kill While I'm always for having more diversity in Malton, the reality is that there are no Mosques, Synagogues or Temples in Malton. If you really want to see religious diversity, lobby for one of each of those to be added; changing "crucifix" to "holy symbol" won't really do anything. Besides, you can always have a "holy symbol" in your user description. Sheana ^{T / TMZ} 06:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
35. Kill - This suggestion is completely absurd. Offended by a text cruxifix in a GAME? That's just sad... --Hhal 01:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
36. Kill - Although the Star of David would make an awesome ninja star, I vote No on any suggestion with "xxxxx Crucifix..." in it's name. -J. A. 23:32, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
37. Kill - I'm a christian and I am not offended by a star of David, or Muslim symbol. Who is offended by a different object than what they are used to? RMinRED 16:55, 4 November 2007 (EST)
38. Kill - I shan't accept this any more than I would proffer my hand or forehead to have the Mark implanted. The only thing, really, that is keeping this world away from the apocalypse is the separation of religion. Any whisper of syncretic religion will meet with bitter protests from me. Adding in mosques? Fine. Synagogues? Mazel tov! Qurans and prayer mats? Okay. Yamulkes, Tzit-Tzits, and prayer-scrolls? Sure. But 'Holy Symbol' is an generic, inhuman term with no passion, no humanity in it.  Nalikill  ^{TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI}  21:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
39. Kill - Political correctness is the refuge of the fearful, it is the shield against principles and the armor against conviction. All things have names and a time. When it is time to use that name, do not become fearful or insulted, instead seek and embrace, understand or ignore but do close your eyes, lest you sleep forever ~ Ethan Chance. --John Blast 15:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam The Grimch posting a useless suggestion ? Ow my. Anyway, no no no no. Crucifixes never had a use ingame beyond saying that Malton is a good-ole white-english-speaking-christian city, not like those infidels from the east and middle-east. Bleargh. It's Merry Christmas, not Happy Holidays. (and before anyone accuse me of anything, i would like to remind you all that i am a south-american taoist :P) --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[cloned] [mod]} 18:09, 24 October 2007 (BST)

   You must have been hiding under a rock when i got good and angry and posted a Rocket launcher suggestion for zombies :P . Anyway, im not understanding the reasons for many of the kill votes. "Id rather them removed" has nothing to do with the suggestion at all. Id like em gone too. So? They can be a RP focus for any form of wacked up crazy religion if you just rename them something generic. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 01:39, 25 October 2007 (BST)

   All hail the conspiracy ? Anyway, no. I'd rather have my useless crucifixes than have something belief-neutral such as a religious symbol. You could suggest religious symbol to be added to the game, so people can have them both. --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[cloned] [mod]} 13:36, 25 October 2007 (BST)

2. As Actingupagain and Hagnat.--ShadowScope 18:55, 24 October 2007 (BST)
3. Spam - Pointless, nonsensical, etc. Remove it or keep it, but don't rename it so it's more obnoxious.--Karek^maps?! 19:07, 24 October 2007 (BST)

   Agreed... --WOOT 02:24, 25 October 2007 (BST)

4. Spam - Yeah, right! We need mosques, synagogues and shintoist temples. -- John Rubin^{T! ZG} 09:31, 25 October 2007 (BST)
5. What?! Replace my Penne all'arrabbiata and lasagna with rice cakes and fucking tofu because someone somewhere supposedly doesn't like Italian food? Fuck off. Suggest something worthwhile like maybe star & crescent decorations/pendants, or most any other religious symbol likely to exist, to be added instead of bland bullshit PC revisionism that isn't even funny. BTW, hagnat is right; when has there been ANY indication that Malton was in some exotic tropical locale or some other far corner of the world? Never. And a predominantly Hindi/Muslim/Other non-Christian populous? No. --Slightly Lions 12:20, 25 October 2007 (BST)
6. Dumb - This suggestion makes total sense, granted that there are Mosques, Mandirs, Synagogues, Ziggarauts, and Aztec Sacrificial altars scattered across Malton. Wait a second, there are only Churches and Cathedrals?!?!? Shit. I guess now we'll have to change their names to 'St. John's Multidenominational Center of Worship'. --O'Sheehy 18:11, 27 October 2007 (BST)
7. Dumb - Everyone who cares about this is dumb. I'm more entertained by the fact that it does nothing. Just like in real life. --Druuuuu 18:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)