Developing Suggestions

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Developing Suggestions

This section is for general discussion of suggestions for the game Urban Dead.

It also includes the capacity to pitch suggestions for conversation and feedback.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Resources

• The Frequently Suggested List
• Suggestions Dos and Do Nots

How To Make a Discussion

Adding a New Discussion

To add a general discussion topic, please add a Tier 3 Header (===Example===) below, with your idea or proposal.

Adding a New Suggestion

• To add a new suggestion proposal, copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.
• The process is illustrated in this image.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change.
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past month may be cycled without notice.

Please add new discussions and suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Hardened Equipment (Generators and Radio transmitters)

Timestamp: scubamatt 02:14, 31 July 2010 (BST)

Type: Balance Change

Scope: Affects humans who try to sabotage Generators/Radio Transmitters

Description: I'm still pretty new to the game, but I was in Ft. Creedy for the last Big Bang attack. One thing that seemed to tip the balance hopelessly against the defenders was the way a death cultist/PKer (whatever you want to call them) could enter the base, then shoot up the generator/radio. They did this constantly, preventing the defenders from searching for supplies and coordinating their defenses. There appears to be no defense against this tactic. Likewise, there seems to be no similar tactic available for the humans to use against zombie hordes. That seems to be an overpowering advantage for zombie groups who use human spies/saboteurs. If generators and radios were immune to damage from humans, this would eliminate GK/RK by spies. You could still destroy them as a zombie, just not as a human spy. PKers could still kill other players individually, but they couldn't instantly affect dozens or even hundreds of human defenders with a handful of shots. I haven't seen any other tactic in the game that allows one player to radically affect hundreds of other players at the same time - but allowing humans to kill generators and radios certainly has a negative impact on every human defender in the area. Anyway, that's my suggestion and I hope I put it in the right area (I'm still new to the wiki, too LOL).

Discussion (Hardened Equipment (Generators and Radio transmitters))

I haven't seen any other tactic in the game that allows one player to radically affect hundreds of other players at the same time I have. It's called "hooking up and fueling a genny", and GKing is just the counter against it. That being said, completely removing GKing would remove a lot of death-culting, would take away one of the very few ways zombies can go ahead in the AP race, would hurt PKers and desperate survivors who can't put out those lights in dark buildings... It's just A Bad Idea(TM), plain and simply. -- Spiderzed▋ 02:55, 31 July 2010 (BST)

Spiderzed speaks the truth. This is a horrible idea, even from a pro-survivor perspective. I have personally GK'd in dark building just to make it harder to be killed by the Death Cultists you speak of. No Way. -Austin Hunt 05:14, 31 July 2010 (BST)

Perhaps I should have said I haven't seen any other tactic in the game that so easily allows one player to radically affect hundreds of other players at the same time. Hooking up and fueling a generator also means AP spent searching for a generator and AP spent searching for fuel. GKing takes a few stabs with a knife. That's a huge disparity in AP spent for results. The fuel and generator are destroyed, but the GKer still has a knife.

Spiderzed, you said that removing GKing will hurt desperate survivors who can't put out lights in a dark building (?), presumably to protect themselves from the Death Cultists that Austin refers to - but in the same sentence you say that removing GKing will eliminate a lot of those same Death Cultists. That seems to negate Austin's argument - he won't need to kill the generator to delay his death at the hands of Death Cultists, if there are a lot less Death Cultists there in the first place. From reading Kevin's FAQ, the game was originally intended to be a 2 sided fight. Humans versus zombies. He is OK with humans killing humans (PK) since that fits the apocalyptic flavor of society disintegrating. But what you have now is Survivors on one side, versus the other side which has Zombies, Death Cultists (humans who use human abilities to disrupt survivor activity, specifically to help zombies), and PKers (humans who kill other humans to disrupt survivor activity, which indirectly helps zombies). There is little a zombie can do to help a survivor group (ZK), compared to what a human can do to help a zombie group (GK, RK, PK, use transmitters to broadcast false information, etc). By eliminating human-sourced GK/RK, you reduce the number of spy/saboteurs (Death Cultists) and bring a little more balance to the original 'survivor vs zombie' game. There will still be PK and Death Cultists, but they won't be able to affect things on a large scale for a handful of AP.--scubamatt 08:56, 31 July 2010 (BST)

That's the survivor shtick. They can't trust each other for beans (not only because they could be DCs, but also because they generally don't get along as reliably as zombies), but when things don't go wrong, they mow down their foes. This is no different. It's easy for the genny to die, but if the survivors are lucky enough to keep it, they can find all the supplies they need extremely quickly. The survivors have the real advantage when it comes to gennies. They invest ~30AP to set it up, knowing that, one day, someone will spend ~10AP to take it down. But before it is taken down, any amount of AP could be saved on searching. It's up to the survivor to guess how much that will be. If they think they'd save survivors more than 20AP, then they set it up and profit. If not, they keep it until later, then set it up, and profit. If gennies were balanced in favor of DCs, no one would be setting them up. --VVV ^RPMBG 09:13, 31 July 2010 (BST)

I see the logic here ... in a roomful of people, a PK'er may get away with attacking another player as survivors may just think they had a private argument and would let them resolve it. But for a roomful of people just to let some guy shoot/stab a genny is just mad. Maybe some skill/skill tree could be included that allowed for a survivor to be alerted to genny damage and defend it ... even if afk, as long as they had some AP spare. Genny killing may be a tactic here and there, but in a highly barricaded mall with lots of people safe and looking for goods, if someone was to GK there, they should be questioned or attacked for it. --Axemaniac johnson 13:39, 31 July 2010 (BST)

Dark places aren't just protection from death-cultists - they are also protection from PKers and zombies, making them also dang useful for survivors in the right circumstances, such as when you need a at least semi-safe sleeping place in a ghost town or during a MOB slaughter-fest, or when you happen to have made yourself such a high-profile PKer target as Kittithaj. That aside, like others already said, death-cultists have become an important part of the game, having their own groups as RDD or Batshit Insane and also being important parts of major zombie hordes as RRF or Feral Undead. Any suggestion aimed at effectively removing them would get spaminated within hours. -- Spiderzed▋ 15:48, 31 July 2010 (BST)

As spiderzed above--just no. PKing and Death Culting are legitimate ways of playing the game, and if Kevan didn't approve of them he could have don't something about it years ago. In fact, for such a large group of survivors, I would ask why more of you weren't carrying spare gennies and fuel. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 14:17, 31 July 2010 (BST)

That's spurious logic, Maverick. If nothing is ever changed because the developer 'could have' changed it before now, there would be no need for a suggestion page. If you have a legitimate reason why this can't or shouldn't work, then explain it. I'm pretty sure that you don't speak for Kevan in any case. As for everyone carrying generators and fuel, you neatly ignored the issue of AP cost I gave above. It takes a lot more time (AP) to scavenge a generator and fuel, and it takes up significant room in your inventory until used. Using TripleU's example above, one cultist with a knife can kill 3 generators (and their fuel, since it's wasted when the generator is destroyed) for the same AP cost it took you to find and set up one (1) generator. There is no current method in the game to prevent a GK. All you can do is tie up lots of people (by loading up with extras of fuel and generators, then having them stay logged in and refreshing the screen). When a cultist or zerger destroys your generator, you can set up another one and then try to kill him before he does it again, and again. The advantage goes to him, because once he kills the generator, your chance to hit him is halved. As soon as you set one up, his chance to hit the generator goes back up. With two or more cultists (one GKer, the others healing him with FAKs) this could continue for a very long time, even in the face of an angry mob. Eliminating human-source damage to generators and transmitters wouldn't affect PKers much at all - only those cultists and spies who call themselves PKers while they sabotage defenses from inside.--scubamatt 19:40, 31 July 2010 (BST)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scubamatt (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

I don't think Spiderzed meant that Death Culting would stop, just that there would be less for death cultists to do. Now, on to something more important. "There is no current method in the game to prevent a GK." Yes. Yes there is. Its called repairing a generator. Also, sign your comments. -Austin Hunt 15:26, 31 July 2010 (BST)

A toolbox is a good friend of a survivor. In real-time combat, a GKer (who needs 5 hits with 50% chance) can _never_ outstrip a repairer (who just needs to repair once with 100% chance). Especially in crowded places as malls and NTs, this has more than once spoiled my GKing sprees. And if you can't catch them in real-time, then remember the other way: Always keep a spare genny and/or fuel can. If you spend all day long gathering moar shotguns and then are left to dry out once a couple of death-cultists darkens the mall and the factory, survivors have only to blame themselves for their short-sightedness. -- Spiderzed▋ 15:48, 31 July 2010 (BST)

The BB3 isn't doing as well as all the other zombie groups before it IMO. Why? The BB3 can't maintain higher population ratio for more than a week, while the others before them maintained the population ratio in their favor for more than a month. It is this very reason that I think you shouldn't be weakening the zombie side, but rather the survivor side ATM. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:57, 31 July 2010 (BST)

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Quick Load

Timestamp: Axemaniac johnson 23:32, 29 July 2010 (BST)

Type: New Military Skill

Scope: Affects pistol wielding Survivors

Description: It costs 1AP to reload a pistol if the player has a clip in his inventory, and my suggestion if for a Military Skill at the end of the Pistol Training tree where the player may learn Quick Load. This means that they can now reload their pistol without using 1AP. I see this as balanced as it comes at the end of the pistol tree so would not be usable straight away making the game too easy. It would cost 75xp for Military players, 100 for civ and 150 for Scientists. I feel that it would not work so well with the shotgun as most of those guns in reality are not so quick to reload as a small handgun. I mainly suggest this as I do not think it would hard for kevan to implement, nor do I feel it is gamebreaking as it would only be available to a player who had already spent a few hundred Xp getting the required prior skills to use it.

Discussion (Quick Load)

Currently, in terms of efficiency, the pistol is no-holds-barred the most efficient weapon in the game. I think it does 1.73 damage per action point. Now, I haven't run the sums, but removing one action point from the reload and searching side of things would be pretty bad. It would make it even more powerful (if I'm correct, somewhere arounf the 1.9 mark?) Zombies would need a boost like this first, and if survivors got it, the pistol is already the best weapon in the game.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:46, 29 July 2010 (BST)

This idea sucks. If you've read the Dos and Do Nots, you'll have tried multiplying this by a billion, and you'll know that you're saving millions of collective survivor AP for no reason other than because you thought this was a "cool" idea. This makes it less expensive to kill zombies with a pistol while providing no benefit to zombies, and as such is 100% one-sided. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 23:47, 29 July 2010 (BST) Conflict me again Younna and I attack.

Spell my name wrong and I may just fight back. :P --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:50, 29 July 2010 (BST)

I have mentally rewritten your name for the past two years; this calls everything I know to be true into question. My world has been shattered and I am left a broken shell. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:01, 30 July 2010 (BST)

Being new to Urban Dead and the whole Wiki scene, I can see how my suggestion would be unfair, and I relish constructive criticism, I really do. It helps me see where I went wrong. But for people to type "it sucks" and "you thought this was a "cool" idea .." is FAR from constructive or well written. Where did I say I thought it was a cool idea? I made a suggestion. I am well beyond the age where I think things are "cool." If you are going to leave comments, try to make them reasonable and show intelligence. No wonder these long term wikis and games are so intimidating to newbs when they just get attacked for suggestions and ideas. --Axemaniac johnson 17:23, 30 July 2010 (BST)

Yeah, most of the people on this page have had the courtesy beaten out of them by all the crap that flows through here. I know I sure have. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 23:35, 30 July 2010 (BST)

When that happens, bud, it is time to stop posting and take a break. Suggestions and ideas should be dealt with constructively or else you run the risk of "scaring off" newbs to the game and wiki with your insulting posting style. If a suggestion bothers you, just post "NO" and move one. --Axemaniac johnson 18:26, 31 July 2010 (BST)

There's also the issue of encumbrance. Why carry surplus pistols if you can reload for free? My PKer has always 6 pistols on her to be able to kill in one go without reloading. If I'd cut that down to a single pistol (which I should if surplus loaded pistols aren't needed anymore to save reload costs), I could suddenly carry 5 full clips more. Those would be enough to kill another target before restocking. Survivors in a siege would see a similar boost for dispatching intruding zombies. -- Spiderzed▋ 23:57, 29 July 2010 (BST)

Sure, Kevan could do this with ease, it wouldn't make the game implode, and you even managed to KISS. But it won't help anything. All it wold serve to do is boost the winning side and shift focus from planning to combat. Which is bad. I suggest a different version: It now takes 2AP to reload a pistol, unless you have the new skill, which would make it cost 1AP. Thus, it would be like lurching gait; Almost everyone has it, but the few newbs who lack it fumble with these weird bulletey things. --VVV ^RPMBG 00:02, 30 July 2010 (BST)

I like this one. Expand it to shotguns too. 00:12, 30 July 2010 (BST)

I like it but it, but it is pointless because we all can afford it. Too late in the game for both of these suggestions.--Raddox MurTangle 00:22, 30 July 2010 (BST)

As above, that would only cripple newbs. All of the experienced players would immediately have it, and it would just increase the gap between the proletariat and the bourgouise.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:19, 30 July 2010 (BST)

Yes, it definitely needs working on, my idea. But there are two reasons I mentioned it. As with a lot of browser games, the end game/high level aspect of them can become stale - The West, for example - and ends up having players leave as they struggle to find things to do and keep them occupied. I always look at games and try to see ways to keep those players in the game - in The West, we have been trying to get them to add loads of high level equipment and very high level quests, or even remove the level cap. The second reason is I used to fire a lot of pistols in the forces, especially at night in the indoor range, and like anyone there, I could reload one of those things in no time at all as they are designed that way. Even the bigger SMGs and LMGs are designed to make reloading as quick as possible, but they can never compete with the short time of a pistol reload. That is why I made it not a viable idea for shotguns, as some of those things are cumbersome to reload. Maybe make it for Soldiers only - or possibly make it a % chance of working for 0AP, and reduce that % if there are any zombies in the same square. Hell, my idea is just that, an idea. --Axemaniac johnson 17:31, 30 July 2010 (BST)

1.) Realism is never a good argument in and of itself here on DS (Aim for Believability, Not Realism). 2.) Even disregarding that, APs are highly abstract. Running down a full city block takes as much APs as making a single gunshot, which takes again as much AP as speaking three short sentences. 3.) Even disregarding both points, it is pretty likely that UD's pistols are rather revolvers than semi-autos, looking at their clip size of exactly 6. Even with a speedloader, they take a good bit longer to reload than a semi-auto. -- Spiderzed▋ 17:57, 30 July 2010 (BST)

No AP savers for pistol loading. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 02:34, 30 July 2010 (BST)

I actully quiet like this idea. It would get rid of my Extra pistols I carry all the time. And we're just talking about ONE skill here people. And It's not like reloading a pistol takes all that long in real life either, if it was a zombie apocalypse,I'd learn to reload faster too. But don't expand it to shotguns, That just unrealistic. I think this is a great idea.-- Jerrel tlk _{(82nd!) (Project Unwelcome!)}. 19:01, 30 July 2010 (BST)

I'd like both sides to have small combat improvements atm, this would work well if coupled with a zombie scratching buff. If you changed it to that, would I vote yes? Probs. Would it reach peer reviewed? Doubt it. Would it be implemented in any way? Noooooo. --

 

 

 

 

04:22, 31 July 2010 (BST)

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Rescue pull

Timestamp: Shadok 11:32, 21 July 2010 (BST)

Type: Balance

Scope: Newbie Survivors

Description: I know it isn't recommended to suggest something which alters another player's position, but I've thought about this one. We all know the zombie skill feeding drag. Drags out an injured survivor for the "Bahbahz". But what about the "Bahbah" Survivors? I've played both sides, and I notice that until you join a metagame and a survivor group, you're alone. As a newbie zombie, I just wondered around until I found a large horde, then grew at a MASSIVE rate. Now, the major problem I faced as a newbie survivor was EHBitching. To counter the problem of newbie survivors sitting outside helplessly, I propose a skill. "Rescue pull" (Draft name), which allows a survivor who has it to "rescue" another survivor who is sitting outside of a building. Rescue pull: 100xp cost (Civilian skill) This skill allows you to work with another survivor to enter a building which is normally too inaccessible to either of you alone. (Both characters involved enter the building). Cost: 2AP for the puller. The puller cannot pull another player into a ruin. Now, this skill won't kill those who Deathcult using EHBitching. It allows a higher level survivor to pull another into a building EVEN IF THE BUILDING IS HB. The exception is this: If a survivor is below level 5 or has less than 500 exp stored (to stop abuse) they can be pulled into a EHB building. (Be reasonable those of you who deathcult a lot. Would you like a game where your first day consisted of being beaten by the enemy?) This skill would increase the survival of newbies who only JUST joined the game and encourage teamwork between survivors, a team which normally works solo and distrusts each other because of the PKer risk. Those of you who PK, this also is a fun way to mess with someone. You rescue them from the horde. Then you shoot them dead. :P Okay, time for the scary part, listening to the older players tearing down my suggestion XD

Discussion (Rescue pull)

First of all, have a cookie for using DS. Secondly. How does the experienced survivor get inside the HB building anyway? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:14, 21 July 2010 (BST)

*Eats cookie* Obviously I didn't make it clear, but the experienced survivor and the newbie are both outside the building. The experienced survivor could obviously use freerunning to access the building via another route, but the newbie would be left outside to die otherwise. This version is actually my second version. The first one worked with one inside the building (via Freerun) and they could drag newbies from outside, but I realised that would create X-ray vision, so I scrapped it before even putting it on the wiki. Shadok 13:32, 21 July 2010 (BST)

I like the general idea (and have often enough seen the troubles of stranded low-level survivors). However, it could be easily abused by zergers to counter overcading: Create a new survivor alt, move it to the building, and use it as a bridge for the main alt. To get around that, Rescue Pull should trigger zerg flags between the involved alts if they use the same IP, and automatically fail if it detects them. -- Spiderzed▋ 13:55, 21 July 2010 (BST)

Didn't think of that, but I like that idea. It certainly solves the problem. Shadok 14:03, 21 July 2010 (BST)

This is actually cheaper than using free running. Even assuming the building next door is vs or lower it costs 3AP to get in (1 move + 1 enter + 1 freerun) this seems like a shortcut rather than an altruistic rescue skill. Mind you introduced with a "pyramid scheme" skill to allow zombie acrobatics to circumvent 'cades and i might say yes ;) --Honestmistake 16:37, 21 July 2010 (BST)

These are survivors. They already go around barricades. Zombies have always had to break them down. Introducing a way for zeds to go past them would completely change the rules of how zombies work. As a zed player, I know I would love to get past those pesky 'cades, but as a survivor it would ruin the game. Also, you seem to have miscalculated. With this skill, you need to spend 1 to walk, 2 to enter, as opposed to the 1 needed to freerun to that same building. (Yes, it's the same amount if you haven't already entered, but if it's a HB building, you would not be in it anyway). Shadok 22:59, 21 July 2010 (BST)

His math was sound. He was suggesting that you want to get into a building you are currently standing in front of. Presently, if the building were HB, you would need to travel a minimum of one block away (1AP), enter that building if it is VSB or lower (2AP total), and then travel back to the building where you wanted to be originally (3AP total). Contrast that with your method, where someone outside merely does a Rescue Pull and gets in with just 1AP. —Aichon— 00:23, 22 July 2010 (BST)

2AP. The cost for the person pulling is TWO AP. But I see, I was thinking that the person was a block away from the "goal" building. Yes, this method would allow one less AP use. But honestly, 1 AP isn't going to make much of a dent on the zombie side and it means one more AP for the survivors to use. If it's preferred by the community, perhaps I could increase the cost to enter using rescue to 3AP; that way it costs the same?Shadok 08:13, 22 July 2010 (BST)

1AP might not be all that much in the grand scheme of things but if the burb you are in is at siege then the chances are very good that you will waste a good 10AP just looking for an entry point. Not only that but you may not find one with a viable freerun route to your target building. When you consider that, your 2AP rescue to put 2 survivors into one desirable building is a good deal. add in the fact that those cades are currently impassable and you are getting a great deal. Now a skill that cost (say) 10AP to give a survivor a 50% chance to ignore heavy cades might be balanced, but this is simply unfixable. --Honestmistake 16:29, 22 July 2010 (BST)

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, if a survivor who has accrued less than 500XP or 5 levels is outside a building with any level of barricades, and another one with Rescue Pull comes up to them, the one with Rescue Pull can pull them both into the building? Honestly, I see this being primarily used for self-interest and abuse, rather than as intended, despite the fact that you actually did manage to head off the most grievous forms of abuse that might have occurred.

Off the top of my head, one big issue is that this allows people to access "islands" without having to break down the barricades first. There's also the fact that if you can pair up with someone, this allows you both to take straight paths between buildings, rather than having to twist and wind through a Free Running lane system that might be broken anyway, and then get two people into your destination building for the price of one. Also, if the so-called "vet" doesn't have Free Running, this allows them access to buildings they shouldn't otherwise have access to yet, though that's not a major issue. —Aichon— 19:35, 21 July 2010 (BST)

People are selfish. I expect that the older player would be selfish, but they also help the newbie in the process. Shadok 02:36, 22 July 2010 (BST)

I could change it so that Freerunning is a prerequisite, although I personally don't think that science classes need to have any more misery than they already have in terms of expensive skills. and pairing isn't as easy as it sounds, I've tried working with my friends to survive and we frequently ended up having to split up. Shadok 22:59, 21 July 2010 (BST)

There's still the issue of accessing islands that needs to be discussed. —Aichon— 00:23, 22 July 2010 (BST)

Yeah, I'm open to suggestion on how to fix that. Shadok 02:36, 22 July 2010 (BST)

I just really don't like the idea of a way to lessen the already-small number of street treats out there, especially since they're vital to raising a bahbah with any kind of pace. 23:07, 21 July 2010 (BST)

That's just it. I play both sides. My zombie reached level 20 at the same time as my human. The zombie was "born" a month and a half after the harman. My main source of food wasn't street treats. It was following groans and entering open buildings. This suggetion is aimed to help the bahbah HARMANZ. Most true newbies join the survivors. They get eaten. They quit. No new players to the game. Zeds need Bahhah to work efficiently and thus work as a team by reflex. The harmanz are alone from creation and often will work solo, even when in a team. Shadok 02:36, 22 July 2010 (BST)

There are some differences, but I feel that you should know about this Reviewed Suggestion. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 10:13, 22 July 2010 (BST)

*Headdesk* There's always something which your work looks like a dupe of, isn't there? XD But like you said, it's not identical and the purpose of it is different. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shadok (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

But I kinda like the Fireman's Carry version a bit better, since it pulls in injured survivors instead of what could be fully healed survivors. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 12:23, 22 July 2010 (BST)

I suppose. But this is a developing suggestion. Perhaps I could put a HP limit on it. The only problem is that it becomes very dupish if I do that. Or I can ditch this one completely and it rots. However, I do think that fireman's carry seemed to require specific circumstances to use it for the carrier. If anyone remembers why it got four kill votes, I'd be interested to know why. Shadok 12:40, 22 July 2010 (BST)

Original voting here. Also, I found this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this, all of which can be used against your suggestions if you do not make any noticable differences. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 13:30, 22 July 2010 (BST)

tl;dr ... I'm definitely not a fan of bypassing the HB+ status of the building, but if it were set up to pull the survivor inside when the building is VSB or lower I would be all for it. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 14:23, 31 July 2010 (BST)

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Suggestions up for voting

Subway Tunnels - Discussion moved to Suggestion talk:20100714 Subway Tunnels.