Developing Suggestions

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Developing Suggestions

This section is for general discussion of suggestions for the game Urban Dead.

It also includes the capacity to pitch suggestions for conversation and feedback.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Resources

• The Frequently Suggested List
• Suggestions Dos and Do Nots

How To Make a Discussion

Adding a New Discussion

To add a general discussion topic, please add a Tier 3 Header (===Example===) below, with your idea or proposal.

Adding a New Suggestion

• To add a new suggestion proposal, copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.
• The process is illustrated in this image.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change.
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past month may be cycled without notice.

Please add new discussions and suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Ankle Bite

Timestamp: --~ 05:24, 15 October 2010 (BST)

Type: New Skill

Scope: Zombies

Description: The ankles of another player are attacked, slowing their progress. Moving to adjacent squares costs twice as much AP until player is healed. This would be a new skill under the Lurching Gait skill tree, just below Ankle Grab (for obvious reasons) -or- it would be a skill under the Vigour Mortis skill tree since it is an attack. You're ankle is badly injured. Movement now costs an additional 1 AP. and You lose 1 AP to your injured ankle.

Discussion (Ankle Bite)

I probably could have thought of a better name but I kept picturing an ankle biting chiuahua and couldn't resist. I'm not terribly dedicated to that name. I think that there should be a 2AP cap, which is to say if you are a zombie without Lurching Gait, your movement will still only cost you 2AP. In fact, maybe death should be a temporary cure for a smitten ankle like infection, only to reoccur when revived.--~ 05:24, 15 October 2010 (BST)

You know I was considering putting this exact same mechanic up over the weekend, only flavoured as heavy bleeding (with the caveat that entering a building would raise its bloodstains too). So yeah, I like it. I'd have it as a Vigor tree skill and let it create a new attack with the same to-hit rate and damage as bite, to mirror the 'attack with effects' thing. 05:27, 15 October 2010 (BST)

That's an interesting spin on AP damage as well. If the concept of ankle biting zombies is too silly then maybe it could be developed with different flavor. --~ 05:40, 15 October 2010 (BST)

Don't put it into bite, it's already feature-packed as is. Perhaps a claw skill under tangling grasp, which for the purpose of making incredibly bad puns I shall call Ankle Grip.

Also the slowly losing points mechanic is getting old, especially if it can be fixed just the same as infection. How about something like a one-time 5 AP cost to break free from a zombie who has ankle gripped a survivor? This could be distressing if you wake up with zombies in your safehouse and you can't get out since one of them really held onto you, you have to either kill them, revive them or spend 5AP in one turn to break free. --Aeon17x 05:52, 15 October 2010 (BST)

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Move Rules

Timestamp: Sargent Havok 10:54, 14 October 2010 (BST)

Type:

Scope:

Description: Survivors can enter/leave buildings with Barricades higher than VSB but now it costs more AP to do so: HB: 2 AP to enter/leave VHB: 3 AP to enter/leave EHB: 4 AP to enter/leave This counts ANY time a survivor leaves or enters, even if they don’t use the door. Walking out of a building to an empty square would also cost the extra AP. Zombies would also pay this cost for leaving a building without using the door. They can’t use the door on a barricaded building anyway, but they would still have to pay the extra for “escaping” a barricaded building higher than VSB. Free-Running would now cost the same extra AP shown above to use, based on the building you are leaving. So if you try to Free-Run into another building from an EHB building, it would cost 4 AP to do so. The Barricade level/Ruin status of the building you are entering does not matter. Survivors with the Scout Safehouse skill would pay 1 less AP for entering/leaving any building they had scouted. That is: HB or less: 1 AP VHB: 2 AP EHB: 3 AP

Discussion (Move Rules)

• looks at suggestor's profile* So I guess you died when you got locked out of your safehouse? Learn to plan your escape in advance. --Aeon17x 11:19, 14 October 2010 (BST)

• Yeah, sorry, this will never pass. The main form of griefing for revived zombies is being able to overbarricade buildings. Taking that away will do a few things: 1. Remove Piñata strategy for zombies. 2. Reduce the number of survivors on the streets (slowing Bahbah zombie growth) and 3. Will take away half the reason of being a Death Cultist. You're only a level one, it gets easier once you have Free Running. Otherwise, always remember to save 10AP to find a building to hide in. Shadok ^{T Balance is power} 11:36, 14 October 2010 (BST)

You know this just shits all over non-survivors right? 15:06, 14 October 2010 (BST)

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Hibernation

Timestamp: Aeon17x 12:58, 13 October 2010 (BST)

Type: New zombie skill, crossover (survivors can also use it)

Scope: Dead bodies with this skill

Description: Hibernation is a new zombie skill which takes effect when the player is dead. It costs 100XP, and requires Ankle Grab as a prerequisite. It works like this: Hibernation - Player spends an extra 4AP to stand up, in exchange for an increased AP recovery rate while dead. With the Hibernation skill, the dead body would gain 1AP every 24 minutes instead of 1AP every 30 minutes. It applies to dead bodies from killed survivors and zombies as well as revivifying bodies. When they stand up they have to spend an extra 4AP for a 5AP stand up cost (10AP if headshot), the increased AP recovery stops and they return to the usual 1AP every 30 minutes rate. Who is this skill for? Basically speaking, nearly everyone. Literally every player in this game is dead at one point or another, and would benefit from a little AP boost while dead so that they could actually do more when they stand up. There is a caveat though: because of the 4AP extra stand up cost, you have to sleep for at least eight hours to break even. Otherwise you'll end up with *less* AP than if you only have Ankle Grab. For this reason ?rise zombies might want to skip the skill altogether, since when they stand up they do it for 5/10 AP instead of 1/6 AP. How is this balanced? Well I did some very rough math, and while it won't convince anyone who believes tweaking with the AP recovery rate shouldn't be done at all, here it is. The maximum AP count is still 50AP. This is important as it means you can only do up to 50AP worth of actions in a single turn. What's different is that you get to that amount faster when dead. w/out Hibernation: 50 AP in 25 hours with Hibernation: 50 AP in 20 hours However you have to take into account you have to stand up first before you could do, well, anything. stand up - w/out Hibernation: 49 AP in 25 hours (50 AP in 25.5 hours) with Hibernation: 45 AP in 20 hours (49 AP in 22 hours, 50 AP in 22.5 hours) stand up with Headshot - w/out Hibernation - 44 AP in 25 hours (50 AP in 28 hours) with Hibernation: 40 AP in 20 hours (44 AP in 22 hours, 50 AP in 25 hours) All in all, Hibernation allows you to gain the same amount of AP as without Hibernation by three hours less, or a 6 AP advantage. But only if you actually stay dead for nearly a full day, and wait a couple of hours from standing up before spending the rest of your AP. Also of note is that 6AP is the maximum amount you can save with this skill. The shorter you stay dead, the less AP you get from the increased AP recovery rate from Hibernation. stand up immediately instead of staying dead - behind by 4 AP 2 hours - behind by 3 AP 4 hours - behind by 2 AP 6 hours - behind by 1 AP 8 hours - break even 10 hours - ahead by 1 AP 12 hours - ahead by 2 AP 14 hours - ahead by 3 AP 16 hours - ahead by 4 AP 18 hours - ahead by 5 AP 20 hours - ahead by 6 AP Now to answer the question of how this is balanced: just from the skill alone, it's not. (Then again, if it's perfectly balanced, why add it to the game at all? :-P) But from the corresponding gameplay changes the players would have to assume if ever they pick up the skill, it could be. Imagine sieges. This skill is favorable to the survivors to a certain extent: zombies with Hibernation would be in a disadvantage if they stand up in less than eight hours as that would mean a net AP loss than if they only had Ankle Grab. They now have to stay dead longer, meaning less zombies would be standing up at any given time and presenting more opportunities for survivors to hold their ground against the horde and defend territory. Revivifying bodies would also benefit from the skill a lot due to the increased AP recovery rate, leading to quicker (or at least stronger) reinforcements for survivors. For zombies, it serves as a counter to Headshot if they nap in the dirt long enough and stand up just as you reach 50 AP. Even more so if you are into negative AP, perhaps from a previous headshot or bellowing too hard; from -15 AP you can get back to 50 AP in about 26 hours. That's about it. This suggestion got a bit longer than I would like, but I think it's an interesting mechanic to say the least.

Discussion (Hibernation)

This breaks one of the golden rules mentioned on the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots - leave your own AP alone. ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ ^talk 15:31, 13 October 2010 (BST)

I always thought of Ankle Grab as a +9 AP boost to dying. --Aeon17x 15:49, 13 October 2010 (BST)

Ah, but Kevan's allowed to do that cos he's the Lord and Creator of Malton ☺ ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ ^talk 16:20, 13 October 2010 (BST)

The difference there (and with Gait) is that it changes the cost of something, rather than changing the recharge rate, which is bad territory. 16:30, 13 October 2010 (BST)

Don't Ankle Grab and Scout Safehouse do so, too? Anyway, I like this. I'd even risk saying I'd like it better if it were my previously undefined XP-spending skill. 5 XP instead of 4 extra AP, anyone? Or in addition? ~m ^T! 23:30, 13 October 2010 (BST)

The problem with any XP burning skill is that some players just have too much of them. To provide them any sort of gameplay-altering capability might as well lead to a virtually permanent buff to those players.

For example, if Hibernation only requires 5 XP and no extra AP loss, those players can stand up with full AP in 20 hours. They can very easily recover the 5 XP with the AP boost from dying. Now if you put both a 5 XP and a 4 extra AP loss for Hibernation, then low-level players would find the skill has a very high penalty to use and still only high-level players will bother to learn it. See what I'm getting at? --Aeon17x 09:02, 14 October 2010 (BST)

Yes, I see what you mean. The way I think, tho, these skills are designed for high-level players, tho maybe not as much as headshot, which requires level 10. These skills, on the other hand, would certainly disencourage lower level characters, but not barr them. I'd rather see both the 5 XP and 4 AP cost, tho. ~m ^T! 19:24, 14 October 2010 (BST)

You can't have skills designed just for high level players. Headshot is an anomaly as to why it's there in the first place, but don't use it to justify breaking the game even more. --Aeon17x 01:25, 15 October 2010 (BST)

Aside from the issues already raised, there is one other problem: you should always give the players a choice if they're going to be doing something potentially detrimental to themselves. Since this is a passive skill (i.e. you always hibernate once you buy the skill), they have no way to "turn it off" if they want to later, meaning that they are stuck with less AP permanently if they play the game as most people do by logging on once a day at the same time (previously, they'd start with 47 each day, now they start with 45 each day). And it's even worse for the casual players that don't log on once a day (previously they'd start with 49, now they start with 45). Without the ability to revoke the option somehow, a complicated and very situational mechanic like this is not a good idea. —Aichon— 04:56, 14 October 2010 (BST)

I just considered a time-based mechanic like this where you have to log back in and check on your character in a specific timeframe otherwise you would be in a disadvantageous situation would work for a browser game like UD; with this skill, you have to stand up between eight to twenty hours to get the additional AP or else you end up with less AP. Apparently it's something the players appreciate and frequently come back for, getting rewards with associated risk. And it's something exploited in other browser games too like Farmville (you have to farm your crop by this hour or it dies, etc). --Aeon17x 08:24, 14 October 2010 (BST)

Facebook is a different beast entirely, since people log on there for other reasons and then play Farmville while they're there (or else they go into Farmville knowing full well what to expect in terms of things like this). UD, however, does not revolve around mechanics like this, so adding one now that cannot be revoked later is a bad idea. I don't think players would appreciate the choice being forced on them permanently once they purchase the skill, since most of them wouldn't understand what they were getting into (for instance, my initial thought when reading the first parts of the suggestion was that it would somehow be optional with each death to deal with exactly what I'm talking about, but, obviously, that's not exactly feasible either). —Aichon— 20:27, 14 October 2010 (BST)

Didn't we have Facebook Dead a couple of years ago? :-) But yeah, I guess this does have a big downside to it that the skill description alone is not enough for the players to realize its full ramifications. Maybe it should have a warning before purchase like Brain Rot... though that might make the zombie skill tree more intimidating to navigate if there are warnings all over the place. --Aeon17x 01:25, 15 October 2010 (BST)

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A few ideas

Timestamp: 00:08, 12 October 2010 (BST)

Type: Skills

Scope: Zombies

Description: Just a few ideas I might flesh out if they seem workable, that have come to me whilst scanning my movie collection for article images. Some might be dupes, I've not checked: Vomit - child skill of digestion (with bite, not under). For a cost of 4 HP and 1 AP, the zombie can make a vomit attack. 95% accuracy, 2 damage, infection. Idea being that by violently regurgitating, they create a spray wide enough that it's very difficult to avoid (high accuracy), caustic (damage) and infectious. Inspired by 28 Days Later and Paura Nella Citta dei Morti Viventi. Numbers could be tweaked. Smear - child skill of memories. Zombies can replace grafitti with a range of options from a drop down menu including things like "bloody handprints", "vaguely meaningful smears", "gouges and scratches", "bile and filth", etc. This would replace the grafitti line with The walls are covered with <choice>, which can be sprayed over to revert back to grafitti messages or smeared over with something different. All the buildings that give xp for tagging give xp for smearing. Relentless - child skill of brain rot. Gives zombie 50% chance of ignoring the effects of headshot when killed. Gouge - child skill of vigor mortis. Zombies are able to directly attack the eyes/face with a gouge attack - same damage/accuracy as maxed bite attacks. Gouged survivors are at -10% accuracy for all attacks until they're healed with a first aid kit. Totally based on Zombi 2's finest moment. Barrage - stand-alone skill. All zombies, with or without the skill, get +5% accuracy, to a maximum of +25%, when attacking barricades, for each zombie with Barrage on the same block. Attacking from outside only counts those outside, and those inside only count for attacking from inside. Frenzy - stand-alone skill. A zombie with frenzy who kills a survivor when there are other survivors present gains +10% accuracy to every attack they have until they are killed or there are no survivors present at the same location as them.

Discussion (A few ideas)

A mixed bag that will need seperating if they get to "suggestions" but...

   * Vomit - No chance.... at best it should be 75% to hit and cause only infection. Even that is pushing it!
   * Smear - I love this one but it is almost certainly a dupe.
   * Relentless - I like this.... I like it a lot!
   * Gouge - No thank you.
   * Barrage - Numbers seem a bit high and i am pretty sure the concept is a dupe. Still, it does have some merit.
   * Frenzy - I like the idea but not sure i like your implementation. A more reasonable version might be to increase the bonus but make it last only until the zombies next miss/none attack action?

All said I think these are worth discussion.... I just don't see any of them making it in game. --Honestmistake 00:26, 12 October 2010 (BST)

• Vomit - Eww. But I disagree with this. Maybe the walls can get covered with half-digested human flesh, under smear?
• Smear - It may be a dupe, but yes. Zombies should be able to smear blood all over the wall, gouge deep scratches, and deface the buildings they have taken.
• Relentless - Zombies have 44 AP. Headshot is an unfortunate necessity of being a zombie. It takes a survivor far more than 6 ap to knock you out anyway. No
• Gouge - Don't screw with other peoples attacks. No
• Barrage - Barricades are meant to be an AP sponge. If you want to get to meat, join an organised horde. No
• Frenzy - ake you more accurate after already killing someone? I sure like this idea. Yes.

John Ibans 02:01, 12 October 2010 (BST)

Your assertion that meat is only found by hordes is the very thing that needs changing - barrage is meant to help ferals and new zombies as they can leech off of the effect of older zombies for their own benefits. Ferals need to have a chance too, though perhaps the numbers involved in barrage could be lowered. 02:05, 12 October 2010 (BST)

Discussing some of this stuff with Gor, thinking that Gouge could be replaced with a "bleeding" mechanic - functionally identical to infection, but both can be present at once - so the attack would be a child skill of Rend Flesh, would give a gouge attack at 40%, 4 damage, and causes bleeding, so biting and gouging together doubles the HP drain, but no one is more effective than the other. Perhaps each HP lost to bleeding indoors adds one to the level of bloodstains at the location too. 02:45, 12 October 2010 (BST)

Hmm. Although the others are a non starter, I quite like relentless and Frenzy, I'm assuming that Frenzy works like the safehouse mechanic? Where as long as you remain in the building and no one kills you it remains? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:30, 12 October 2010 (BST)

Sort of - if at any point you're at a location with no survivors (say you leave the building and there's none outside, or you kill the last one there or they all leave), or you die, then it wears off. 20:26, 12 October 2010 (BST)

There is no more flesh to gorge on. Your frenzy subsides--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:56, 12 October 2010 (BST)

Badda bing. 21:01, 12 October 2010 (BST)

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Lower HP by 20

Timestamp: -- Spiderzed▋ 16:44, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Type: Value change

Scope: Everyone

Description: Let's go crazy and lower all hitpoints by 20. These would be the concrete effects: Starting humans and zombies have 30HP. Bodybuilding/Flesh Rot grants +10HP as usual, giving a total of 40HP. Revived humans have 15/20HP (depending on if they have Bodybuilding or not.) drag-eligibility still gets triggered at 12HP, putting freshly revived humans without FAKs at great risk damage from weapons and infection remains unaltered damage from failed Freerunning into ruins is halved to 2HP, rather than 5HP (17-20% of total possible health for stumbling over rubble would be a bit extreme, wouldn't it?) healing still heals 5/10/15HP depending on circumstances and skills, and digestion still grants 4HP per bite XP for healing and attacking remain the same Why go that crazy? Because of these beneficial effects: Zombies Lone ferals get a far better chance to break in and still have the AP to drag/kill someone, making even lone ferals dangerous. Cheap revive costs become far less of an issue in balance, as they are closer to kill costs, without the need to raise the AP costs for reviving to a ridiculous amount At the same time, combat revives remain a viable tactic, as they work reliably for exactly 10AP and just use up a single 2% item (unlike melee weapons, which probably use more than the 10AP, and unlike guns, which clog up more than 2% of encumbrance). Eating corpses becomes a viable tactic, as the AP costs to do so are close to that of receiving a headshot and rising again with full HP PKers PKers would need far less HP to kill, allowing further away bolt-holes and epic striketeam mass homicide PKers could actually make some impact, as the kill costs are so close to revive costs OTOH, the reduced HP would put also PKers at greater risk, as even dark places aren't darn safe protection from every lone wolf without a genny and fuel. A bodybuilding PKer with a flak jack could be killed with a pistol for 31AP on average (((40HP / 4 damage)/65% hit probability)/50% darkness penalty). Carrying genny+fuel for PKer hunting would still be a sensible option, as it allows a.) to "bank" AP in advance that later make it easier to hunt PKers and b.) it allows to collect multiple bounties in dark places swarming with PKers This would also give bounty-hunting/retribution kills some sense, as the costs for doing so aren't so much ridicoulously higher than the costs to revive the PKers (although it would still remain somewhat less AP-efficient than ignoring PKers and putting the APs rather into reviving the victims) Survivors Survivors get a far better chance to break a cade block, as they can kill and dump multiple zeds per individual AP cycle. A survivor loaded with pistols could repel a rotter for 15AP on average, allowing him to kill and dump 3 zeds at once and still cade a bit if he is fully rested. (((40HP / 4 damage)/65% hit probability = 15AP, +1AP for dumping = 16AP per pop) Survivors can fill up their inventory mostly with FAKs, syringes, a toolbox and maybe also a genny and/or fuel, and still put enough guns into their spare encumbrance for them to actually have an effect. A single revolver and two spare clips for a total of 8% would be sufficient to repel a single fully healthy rotter. Flavour 3-5 shotgun blasts or 6-8 revolver bullets would be all what it takes to send someone to the boot hill, rather than the ridiculous amount of abuse that folks can take right now before they die The beneficial effects would probably be slightly more in favour of zombies than survivors (as the imperative of zombies is to attack whenever possible, while survivors usually only fight when things have gone wrong), but it would offer something for both, and it would especially nerf the dreaded cade blocking without removing it entirely. I'm aware that it's crazy and extreme, but I see a lot of merit in this. Discuss.

Discussion (Lower HP by 20)

It's a slightly less extreme version of this. Main complaint has been the harshness on newbs, so I figured that I'd help them by granting +5HP compared to the original suggestion. The other thought that crossed my mind was handing out free healing items to new survivors, but +5HP are more permanent and help also retroactively. -- Spiderzed▋ 16:46, 11 October 2010 (BST)

I'd kill this only because I'm too used to the 50-60HP max. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:49, 11 October 2010 (BST)

I like this. I'd vote for it. I wouldn't trust it with my children, but I'd vote for it. 16:58, 11 October 2010 (BST)

As I said on the last version, I like it. See my comments there for more detail on why I like it. —Aichon— 17:58, 11 October 2010 (BST)

No, zombies dont care for HP as it is. This would just make survivors, (Who are underpowered as is) even more so.--TheWritingWriter 00:34, 12 October 2010 (BST)

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Something New to Gesture At

Timestamp: •▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 03:00, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Type: Addition on Gesture Drop-down list

Scope: Zombies with Flailing Gesture

Description: The short and simple version? Add "graffiti" to the list of things to gesture at in the gesture drop down list.

Discussion (Something New to Gesture At)

Nice and short. Anyone want the long version? Because I could prepare one... ;) --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 03:04, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Its a massive dupe and you know it. What happens if the spraypaint is changed between the gesture and the observer logging on? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:25, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Oh MAAAAN I can see how bad that would be. You gesture at it because it's a URL, then someone sprays something about their wang onto the wall. To someone later...you gestured to that. Not too good an impression. Shadok ^{T Balance is power} 13:11, 11 October 2010 (BST)

I want a gesture to the eyes. Like the zombie poked your eyes. And you can't see anything happening after that and until you log back on! Unless you equipped something over your face like safety goggles. --Aeon17x 11:31, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Perhaps, but I the problem pointed above makes it more of a 'Nah'. I'd rather have my suggestion just two below. Maybe if you post the long version? ~m ^T! 15:34, 11 October 2010 (BST)

I swear, I did not see your suggestion below. I only got this idea after this. It would have been funny if I gestured at that graffiti, then at me, and said "Hagz?". xD --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:19, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Its still a peer reviewed dupe. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:15, 11 October 2010 (BST)

"You gesture at the graffiti" Im guessing thats what it would say. This suggestion seems kinda useless considering the pointless crap people like to put on the walls, I guess it would be useful if you want to point out revive points. Id vote for this. --TheWritingWriter 00:36, 12 October 2010 (BST)

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How bout some mild form of XP Wastage?

Timestamp: ~m T! 00:36, 9 October 2010 (BST)

Type: New Skills

Scope: Maxed character

Description: I know this is on the frequently suggested list, and having been a wiki regular way back, I've seen my share of stupid ideas. But they all involved some skill which would be bought (by the regular ammount of 100XP), sometimes more than once, stacking effects, be used for limited time/actions/whatever, and usually be really overpowered while active. How about a completely different approach? Say, a skill bought for regular price (100XP), you can buy it only one time and it lasts forever, just like a regular skill would. The XP wastage would come when using it: it would spend the usual 1AP, plus something around 5XP, and be slightly more powerful than a regular skill. Note that I'm not (as yet) discussing which skill that would be, I just wanna know what your opinion would be on this general mechanic.

Discussion (How bout some mild form of XP Wastage?)

Think of it as writing a scroll on DnD. You don't need to be a maxed-out wizard to do so, you don't spend a huge ammount of XP, and the effect is just as strong as your spells. It does, however, serve as a psychological relieve to us who are constantly staring at a gargantuan ammount of unspent XP. ~m ^T! 00:37, 9 October 2010 (BST)

Not a dupe, but I just like my Peer Reviewed version better. =P --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:53, 9 October 2010 (BST)

"You claw at a survivor for 4HP! The attack was strengthened by your excess energy!" It actually sounds pretty cool :P Shadok ^{T Balance is power} 02:02, 9 October 2010 (BST)

Yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of. 1AP, 5XP, 1 extra damage. Not too powerful, not too useless. For humans it could improve accuracy, since improving bullet damage just because you're awesome sounds kind of stupid. Also, now that I come to think of it, it's probably a good idea to make it 15XP instead of 5, but that's up for discussion. ~m ^T! 19:38, 9 October 2010 (BST)

I think adding accuracy or damage through this mechanism might be a bit much, however, I am all for a way to spend excess xp. Rather than directly influence combat a more utilitarian bonus might be better. For example zombies get to reduce the stand up cost while survivors get to reduce the repair/manufacture cost? --Honestmistake 08:13, 11 October 2010 (BST)

So you're suggesting zero AP standup costs, Honest? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:33, 11 October 2010 (BST)

a skill to reduce stand up cost by 1 for 25xp a pop... Sure it would allow 0AP stand-ups, frankly though they would only be a pain in the ass when used in conjunction with certain dirty tactics ;) In any event most kills are headshots so the cost would not often be 0. --Honestmistake 00:35, 12 October 2010 (BST)

Id like something to do with the 1k or so exp my maxed zombie has.--TheWritingWriter 00:38, 12 October 2010 (BST)

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Improve zombie gestures

Timestamp: ~m T! 23:47, 7 October 2010 (BST)

Type: Skill improvement

Scope: Zombies with flailing gesture

Description: The other day I felt a need to be able to point at more stuff. Some things are really hard to express in zombese, and being able to point at, for example, the NecroTech logo, or an open door, could come in handy. So I suggest there are more options to zombie players to point at. Usually, a single one at most per building, something that marks it as unique. For example: The NT logo, inside NT buildings The cross, inside churchs Billboards, in street blocks featuring one Phone mast, outside a building featuring one The bar, inside pubs and clubs (or maybe a pool table on some pub or another?) so on Also, open doors. As it is, you can point at barragahz, but once they're down you can't gesture "IN!". And maybe "All other zombies" in addition to "A zombie"? It crossed my mind to point at items in one's inventory, too, but that will clutter the dropdown menu too much. As the suggestion stands, you could have tons of different pointable things, but only one in each place. (plus All other zombies and open door). Maybe, the items could go in, say, after the survivors; the dropdown could, then, be separated into sections, by use of useless (ha!) " - " items (like the first item on the "Drop item" dropdown menu. Places first, survivors next, zombies (including ones on your contacts) next, then stationary pointable things, and lastly your own items? Still seems too much, but it could come in handy. What say you?

Discussion (Improve zombie gestures)

Personally, I think the unique stationary stuff is really useful, simple, and unproblematic to implement. The items in one's inventory, on the other hand, was a later idea, but I think it could go. Either way, now that I think of it, separating the flailing gesture dropdown menu into sections is a good idea, even without the extra item clutter... --~m ^T! 23:50, 7 October 2010 (BST)

I like the general idea. Definitely need more gestures. I don't like the idea of cross/bar, but the location's unique mechanical feature are good. Doors as well, since it allows zombies proof than the barricades had broken down earlier even if they weren't online to see it, something they currently lack. No opinion on items except that the amount of bullets in a gun should be irrelevant. --VVV ^RPGMBCWS 23:58, 7 October 2010 (BST)

Do you think bars and churches should have other features or none at all? I mentioned them because I couldn't think of too many features right away. The NT logo was the one that made me feel the need. And I don't really think why shells in a shotgun should be relevant! ~m ^T! 00:03, 8 October 2010 (BST)

I dislike the idea of pointing at the cross or bar, but the other suggestions I like. I'd also suggest to add "the window" in tall buildings. 00:07, 8 October 2010 (BST)

Yes. --VVV ^RPGMBCWS 00:58, 8 October 2010 (BST)

So, any more ideas on unique/stationary objects to be pointed at in specific buildings?

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Reduced AP cost to Scout Safehouse

Timestamp: --~ 21:14, 3 October 2010 (BST)

Type: Skill buff/tweak

Scope: Survivors

Description: Nearly everyone agrees the Scout Safehouse Skill costs too much AP to be effective. It could use a buff/tweak. I think halfing it to 15 AP makes sense. Discuss.

Discussion (Reduced AP cost to Scout Safehouse)

That's more of a 75%, but it would be a benefit to survivors. However, the question is this: Will it change anything? It's still 15AP spent to regain it only after 3 days. I still don't see SS being used with this change. Shadok ^{T Balance is power} 22:31, 3 October 2010 (BST)

Not sure about your math, Shadok. Looks to me like you'd be able to recoup costs after 3 days instead of 6 days, as it is now. That sounds like a good thing to me, and 10-15 is what I've been bouncing around in my own head as the ideal number for how much it should cost to make it something that's useful. —Aichon— 22:57, 3 October 2010 (BST)

You know, I've been re-thinking "scout safehouse". Its not a good skill for stocking up. What is IS a good skill for is kicking your defensive capacity into overdrive once you already have 50 AP and a full stock and full cades. It might never earn you those 30 AP back, but that doesn't matter if it saves you 5 AP in the middle of an active conflict. Yeah, that means its not often useful, but I think its worth keeping in mind that maybe its utility SHOULD be very limited. Instead of thinking of it as scouting, think of it as spending a bunch of AP to power up before a fight.  Swiers 23:25, 3 October 2010 (BST)

scout safehouse is a self gathered idiot tax. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:34, 3 October 2010 (BST)

This. I used it once, probably never doing it again. Even 15 AP is too much. --Thadeous Oakley 23:36, 3 October 2010 (BST)

I don't really understand how the Scout Safehouse mechanic works. It says I gain 5 extra AP to use on my safehouse. That means what, that I can go up to 55 there? That I regen 5 AP faster in 24h? That I can do 5 free actions per day? ~m ^T! 23:54, 7 October 2010 (BST) Answered. ~m ^T! 23:24, 13 October 2010 (BST)

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Manhandle

Timestamp: RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 11:40, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Zombie Skill

Scope: Sub Skill of Feeding Drag.

Description: Simply put, if you're feeding dragged out of a ruined building it causes you damage, as you get scratched and ripped by the broken glass and rubble. The amount of damage is directly affected by the Decay level. So if you're dragged from a recent ruin, it causes you 1 damage, if its been ruined for more than 70 days, 10 damage. if you are killed by the drag, you die outside. XP wise, zombies gain no xp for the drag damage but do get the xp bonus if you are killed as a result.

Discussion (Manhandle)

First manhandle Joke goes to.... --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:41, 30 September 2010 (BST)

This is severely underpowered. 70 days should do 70 damage! --Aeon17x 11:55, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Minus HP.... Now how would that work?--Thadeous Oakley 11:57, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Well, repairing ruins could bring you into minus AP so I thought it was kinda fitting if it was possible to die while inhabiting one on minus HP. Maybe it could be expressed through significantly more clothing damage? Or the body becomes ineligible for feeding because of all the embedded shrapnel? --Aeon17x 12:59, 30 September 2010 (BST)

You're dead, you're dead . Simple as that. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:43, 30 September 2010 (BST)

There's no such thing as negative HP anyway. Killing damage doesn't roll over >_> RinKou 07:31, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Good enough. Hiding in ruines has an additional risk. Makes sense. Keep. --Thadeous Oakley 11:57, 30 September 2010 (BST)

I like it, but you'd need to specify how the damage scales with the decay level. 14:38, 30 September 2010 (BST)

I guess he's thinking something along the lines of:

• Level 1 (1 day) = 1 HP
• Level 2 (2 to 5 days) = 2 HP
• Level 3 (6 to 10 days) = 3 HP
• Level 4 (11 to 20 days) = 4 HP
• Level 5 (21 to 30 days) = 5 HP
• Level 6 (31 to 40 days) = 6 HP
• Level 7 (41 to 50 days) = 7 HP
• Level 8 (51 to 60 days) = 8 HP
• Level 9 (61 to 70 days) = 9 HP
• Level 10 (71+ days) = 10 HP

Seems about right to me. Keeping this in line with the existing decay levels would make this easier to implement. Chief Seagull squawk 15:03, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Exactly as that. I'd also make it a Malton exclusive as its a one shot kill in the perma death cities. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:44, 30 September 2010 (BST)

I like it. It's kind of a dupe from erm...Duped Stuff but more to the point. --~ 15:35, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Hey nobody think this could be a little overpowered? This is more than twice the damages a Zed could do normally. --DiSm ~ T 21:30, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Alternative Suggestion on damage levels? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:06, 30 September 2010 (BST)

The most obvious alternate would be:

• Level 1/2 (1 to 5 days) = 1 HP
• Level 3/4 (6 to 20 days) = 2 HP
• Level 5/6 (21 to 40 days) = 3 HP
• Level 7/8 (41 to 60 days) = 4 HP
• Level 9/10 (61+ days) = 5 HP

But frankly, I like it as it is. I've just taken part in the first time I have ever dragged a survivor from a ruined building, so I don't think it would occur enough to be a major OP. I like the 10-stage instead of a 5-stage.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:22, 30 September 2010 (BST)

As I said before, this should cause non-fatal damage, like falling from a ruin does. The only reason the zombie is dragging in the first place is because he wants the survivor to survive until a babah comes along. Zombies may not want to buy a skill that forces them to kill the almost dead. That said, I don't think it needs to be a skill at all. It should just be a part of feeding drag, since it's such a trivial thing. --VVV ^RPGMBCWS 23:19, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Now thats not true at all. The only reasons I drag survivors is either A) Its Dark and I want to claw them properly, or B) I want the place ruined ASAP. I'm not helping others, just myself. Im so selfish. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:17, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Then you are not a true zombie, you are merely a survivor who isn't breathing. Eating people does not immediately mean you have seen the divine light of barhah. --VVV ^RPGMBCWS 00:43, 2 October 2010 (BST)

Not needed, potential for screwing over those who have no other choice. - User:Whitehouse 23:30, 30 September 2010 (BST)

I like it, but Triple U has a point. Perhaps it cannot take a survivor below 1 HP? --Gat 00:11, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Trips nailed it. It needs to cause non-fatal damage, otherwise it's useless except in dark buildings. Also, the damage it causes shouldn't be too high anyway (Yonn's numbers are reasonable), since it's a 100% chance to hit and only costs 1-2AP (1AP to drag, 1AP to re-enter). That said, I'd have it do a base damage for the drag, and then add on extra damage for ruined buildings. Maybe 2HP base damage for Feeding Drag, even from unruined buildings, followed by some extra amount based on Decay (e.g. +0 for decay levels 1-4, then use Yonn's numbers as a guide for levels 5+). —Aichon— 00:13, 1 October 2010 (BST)

I'm still wavering towards a ruin only effect. But I'm never conceding on the "Non Fatal Damage" in a world where I can be killed with a tennis racket. How about 3 for ruined, 5 for a ruin cost over 30, and 7 for a ruin cost over 70? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:25, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Honestly, the fatal damage aspect is a killer for me. Don't get me wrong, the point you make about dying from practically anything is valid, but so many of us do drag to help others, and it's the core purpose of the skill, so neglecting it in that manner is unacceptable. As for the other damage you mention, I'd be okay with it. Were I picking numbers, they'd be just a smidgen lower, again because of the 100% chance to hit, but those ones are acceptable to me. I wouldn't vote kill on them alone. —Aichon— 12:08, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Hmm. Well as zombies only have 3 attacks, why not make this a fourth? Base accuracy, and tangling also affecting it? Then you have a choice of a non damaging drag at 100%, or a damaging one at about 50. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:27, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Often, I leave my dragee at the lowest health practical. Even if it's a choice between feeding drag or fatal drag, I'm still going to be clawing them post-drag. Nothing will have changed if I can't knock off some heath and still leave them on a silver platter. --VVV ^RPGMBCWS 01:30, 2 October 2010 (BST)

I don't think we should be making it harder to retake ruined areas - anything that is going to nerf survivors should focus on those survivors that hang out in the green zones Sanpedro 06:53, 1 October 2010 (BST)

I don't see how it makes retaking ruins harder. You're only hiding in ruins if you're running. If you were planning to retake the ruin, you would've suicide repaired, right? So no damage from feeding drag. Besides, an additional 10 HP off isn't going to make much difference. If you got dragged outside, you're dead anyway. Almost 100% guaranteed. RinKou 07:31, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Yep. Plus its an added encouragement to, you know, repair them before they get too ruined. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:22, 1 October 2010 (BST)

I don't really think this hurts babah zambahz too much. If it were damage from drag from ANY building then yes but from ruins only, the impact is much less substantial to those without Memory of Life. And if the damage is nerfed down a bit, it effects them even less. They'll still likely be alive but with less HP then they might have if without drag damage (unless you wait until they're below 7HP to drag them out). --~ 14:10, 1 October 2010 (BST)

I would prefer to see it as a base damage but with a 10% chance per ruin level (10-100%) of doubling this damage, not actually fussed what the base damage is but would say between 3 and 5! Either way I would want the possibility of causing fatal damage. 1 thing to bear in mind is that most drags are done by the zombie causing the damage so even at 10 damage they will almost always have the option of not taking them to zero HP... --Honestmistake 18:30, 5 October 2010 (BST)

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Riot Shield

Timestamp: Mattiator 02:56, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Item

Scope: Survivors and Zombies

Description: Some of you might remember my infamous suggestions of olde (Dropping and Flare Six-Shot, anyone?), and I haven't suggested much in quite some time. So here we go with something I know I'd like to see. The item is known as a Riot Shield, found in Police Departments. The Riot Shield acts, in essence, as a secondary Flak Jacket when equipped, reducing damage from ALL attacks over 1 damage by 1 damage (so in essence, it doesn't make punches more worthless than they already are). To equip the Riot Shield, click on it, and for 3AP it will become equipped until you die. When you die it will remain in your inventory. Both survivors and zombies can utilize the Riot Shield. However, while the Riot Shield provides several advantages, it also has several huge disadvantages, which apply to both humans and zombies. 1. You cannot use Free Running while having a Riot Shield equipped, due to the awkwardness of holding it out while leaping between buildings. 2. All movement costs are increased by 1 AP (essentially making you as slow as a zombie without Lurching Gait) 3. Accuracy with all weapons (including claws, punch, and bite) is decreased by 10% while the Riot Shield is equipped. (This only applies to the person USING the shield) 4. Zombies cannot attack barricades when the riot shield is equipped 5. Zombies cannot use Tangling Grasp or Feeding Drag with a riot shield equipped 6. Survivors cannot use Syringes when a Riot Shield equipped. 7. When either a zombie or a survivor dies, the Riot Shield is automatically unequipped. Essentially, the Riot Shield is used for defending a position. Survivors can use it for increasing the effectiveness of meatshielding, while zombies would be able to utilize it to reinforce barricade breaches, especially when coupled with a well-timed ?rise. TWEAK #1: Encumbance would be 10%, because it's a large object. TWEAK #2: Now only affects attacks that do ABOVE 2 damage, to reduce newbie nerfing.

Discussion (Riot Shield)

Dupe. Trupe. Quadrupe. Add it to the spam stack too, since this item effectively halves claw attacks from newbie zeds. --Aeon17x 03:08, 30 September 2010 (BST)

RE: Just read through the dupes. Don't exactly see how my suggestion is the same aside from the name. I do agree with the comment on newbie zed nerfing. You think I should perhaps make the item break, or perhaps only work on damage above 2, so as not to nerf newbies. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but the disadvantage affects the person utilizing the shield, not the person attacking the person holding it. Any other ideas for improvement? Mattiator 04:23, 30 September 2010 (BST)

If you make the item break, then that makes it even more of a dupe of the first one. And if you set it to only work on damage above 2, then claw attacks from even veteran zombies with Rend Flesh would only be as effective as that of newbie zombies. Even knives would have higher damage per AP output. --Aeon17x 04:35, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Hmm, Feeling like MW2 and/or hippy days much? --Gat 03:50, 30 September 2010 (BST)

Zombies using items makes no sense. Since meatshielding isn't nearly as important to survivors as forming a beachhead is to zombies, and this doesn't affect the latter at all once you disallow its use for zombies, it effectively becomes useless in practice, and more of a nuisance than an enhancement to the game. —Aichon— 06:20, 30 September 2010 (BST)

RE: But zombies CAN use items, it's just generally useless because their standard attacks are waaaay better. Honestly, I think a zombie would be smart enough to think "Hmmm. I don't want to get shot, so I'll hold this big board-thing in front of me." Also, perhaps have a skill for zombies under the Brain/FleshRot tree so that they aren't screwed over if they didn't get one while alive? Perhaps Memories of Life should be required to use one? And one of the primary reasons for survivors to use it is, say, when they run out of AP in their chosen safehouse, they use a bit of AP to equip their riot shield (like, say, putting over them while they sleep) so that they have more protection, however to do that effectively (unequip in the morning to do things, and put it on at night) would require the survivor to use 6AP, a little more than 1/10th of their full AP capacity. So it's in essence a trade-off, primarily for survivors who are simply camping out in one spot, as opposed to moving around. I'm just trying to continuously improve this suggestion, because I think with a lot of tweaking it could actually work really well. Mattiator 19:05, 30 September 2010 (BST)

3 AP is a little low. Eventually, basically everybody would have a riot shield, and your last AP will always be used to equip it. Killing people just got a lot harder for no reason. Unless it's unequipable after it's equipped, but that doesn't really make any sense. RinKou 07:18, 1 October 2010 (BST)

Do you mean by "Unequipabble after it's equpped", do you mean by someone else or by the user? It can be unequipped by the user, it just is a waste of 3 of their AP when they start and another 3 AP when they end, for a reduced chance to die. Mattiator 17:42, 6 October 2010 (BST)

I'd increase the AP needed to equip it, as there's nothing stopping you from un-equipping it, free running home, then equipping it again. Further more, I'd only make it lessen melee attacks, as despite what MWII has taught us, it's in fact ballistic shields, not riot shields that slow or stop incoming projectiles. Other than that, the tweaks you've already noted in conjunction with the original suggestion make a pretty solid idea. --• LtZurSee slapped your nose with a newspaper for a heal from CORAM (0 seconds ago) 07:11, 12 October 2010 (BST)

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Suggestions up for voting

Spreading Infection

Moved to Suggestion talk:20101011 Spreading Infection --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 18:07, 11 October 2010 (BST)

Darts

Moved to Suggestion talk:20101003 Darts --~~ Chief Seagull ~~ ^talk 08:37, 3 October 2010 (BST)

Moaning Zombies

Moved to Suggestion talk:20101002 Zombie Moan  Swiers 06:25, 2 October 2010 (BST)