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Developing Suggestions

This section is for presenting and reviewing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Further Discussion

Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Please Read Before Posting

Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. You can read about many ideas that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe: a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles.
Users should be aware that page is discussion oriented. Other users are free to express their own point of view and are not required to be neutral.
It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
After new game updates, users are requested to allow time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Adding a New Suggestion

Copy the code in the box below.
Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change, etc. Basically: What is it? and Is it new, or a change?
Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check you spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

Suggestions with no new discussion in the past two days should be given a warning notice. This can be done by adding {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section, where date is the day the suggestion will be removed.
Suggestions with no new discussion in the past week may be removed.
If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the warning template please remove the {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section to show that there is still ongoing discussion.

This page is prone to breaking when the page gets too long, so sometimes suggestions still under discussion will be moved to the Overflow page, so the discussion can continue.

Suggestions in Overflow: No suggestions currently in overflow.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list

Suggestions

Rifles

Timestamp: Degree7 21:57, 8 August 2009 (BST)

Type: New Weapon

Scope: Humans

Description: Well, my idea is that players would be able to find rifles in sport stores or gun stores in the malls and maybe in Armouries. When you initially find the rifle, you have a small hit chance with it and must upgrade by buying 'marksman training'. Once upgraded, they can sight ahead with the rifle one block in any direction and be able to shoot a target from there. If you enter a tall building, you can do this as well. Additionally, you can choose to upgrade to 'advanced marksman training', where you then have to look for a telescopic sight in a hardware or sports store store. Once found, you can attach the scope to your rifle. With a fully upgraded sniper rifle, you can sight two blocks in any direction from the ground, but if you enter a tall building (tower, hotel, buildings) you can use the scope to sight 4 to 5 blocks in any direction and be able to shoot or pick off targets within your line of sight. Ammo would be in the form of .22 bullets, also found in sports stores. You find these bullets individually. When you fire the rifle once, you must reload another bullet in. Costs 1 AP to fire and 1 AP to reload. Additional upgrades could include 'steady aim'(increased hit%) for experienced marksman.

My idea was this would add the factor of snipers on tall buildings to act as marksman, to protect safe-houses or just to gather XP by sniping Zombies. I also thought it would be interesting if the maybe the Scout class started out with a sniper rifle, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Rifle:

Effects: Increased peripheral vision (3x3 grid)

Damage: 12 points (10 against flak jacket)

Base accuracy: 5%

Capacity: One .22 bullet

Locations: Mall Sports Stores(5%), Armouries(2%), Mall Gun Stores(1%)

Encumbrance: 8%

Starting Skill: 5% accuracy

Basic Firearms Training: 20% accuracy

Marksman Training: 35% accuracy

Advanced Marksman Training(requires telescopic sight): 50% accuracy

Steady Aim(requires Advanced Marksman training): 65% accuracy

.22 Bullet:

Locations: Malls Sports Stores(7%), Mall Gun Stores(3%), Armouries(5%)

Encumbrance: 2%

Discussion (Rifles)

No more guns! And no ranged weapons, no attacking from a distance, and especially not from inside, where you are invulnerable to counterattacks. This has been suggested approximately 1 million times before -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 02:22 9 August 2009 (BST)

This violates shooting through barricades; did you even read the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:08, 9 August 2009 (BST)

Rifles (continued)

Timestamp: Degree7 01:42, 9 August 2009 (BST)

Type: New Weapon

Scope: Humans

Description: ...Costs 1 AP to reload one .22 bullet, by clicking on the bullet (rifle had hold maximum of one round at a time)

Telescopic Sight:

Effects: Increased peripheral vision (5x5 grid, 9x9 grid)

Locations: Sports Stores(3%), Armouries(2%)

Encumbrance: 2%

When finding a telescopic sight and upgrading to 'advanced marksman training', you can then click on the telescopic sight to attach it to your rifle. Once attached, players can use the sight on their rifle to look 2 blocks in each direction from the ground. By entering a tall building, the player can then look ahead 4 blocks in each direction and observe a count of zombies and survivors. You then have the ability to attempt to fire upon whoever you can see in your field of view, with the cost of 1 AP.

ADDITIONAL DETAILS:

This is just a rough idea I've outlined, so any advice on whether this is too overpowered or useless, or maybe some suggestions on how to improve upon this idea if you like it, would be appreciated.

As for any argument that this costs too much AP, all you'd have to do (when fully upgraded) would be stay in one building and pick off anyone outside. But an element of strategy is added by the fact that you can't stay in one building for too long, since maybe it could be implemented that when shot at, players are able to identify where the shot came from. This could prevent snipers from becoming too overpowered.

NOW! I know this is already in the peer rejection page, but just give this idea a chance for discussion one more time.

I have this feeling that this could work brilliantly.

Discussion (Rifle)

Congrat ulations! It's a dupe!--Orange Talk 22:19, 8 August 2009 (BST)

Are those ALL from November 2005?--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:20, 8 August 2009 (BST)

RE: - Shame! This idea is completely different and more balanced than those posted in Nov 2005 Degree7 21:24, 8 August 2009 (EST)

It's been done before, and pick the common theme... voters don't want rifles -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 03:36 9 August 2009 (BST)

Now, now; let the poor fellow down easily. -George Zip ^◆◆◆ 00:17, 9 August 2009 (BST)

Sigh. --ϑϑℜ 01:30, 9 August 2009 (BST)

No more guns! And no ranged weapons, no attacking from a distance, and especially not from inside, where you are invulnerable to counterattacks. This has been suggested approximately 1 million times before -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 02:23 9 August 2009 (BST)

RE: - You're not invulnerable to counterattack, as the sniper rifle would only really be useful on tall buildings Degree7 21:24, 8 August 2009 (EST)

How the fuck does a zombie reach you on top of an EHB tall building... you're invunerable, unless they get a couple of their mates to first knock down the barricades for them. You want to attack zombies outside (a stupid thing to do in any case), you go outside and do it -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 03:36 9 August 2009 (BST)

	THIEF
	This user has stolen a template from Lelouch vi Britannia! He is not amused. Feel free to point, laugh, and generally mock anyone other than Lelouch who posts this.

Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 04:13, 9 August 2009 (BST)

Chainsaw

Timestamp: Kite 10:43, 8 August 2009 (BST)

Type: New Weapon

Scope: Humans and Zombies

Description: Well my idea here is that it would be an ammo-fed melee weapon. It would only be useful with fuel cans, otherwise it only does 1 damage, zombies will be able to use this, but if they did, even if it is fueled would only do 1 damage.

Chainsaw:

Effects: None.

Encumbrance: 15%

Can be found in - Mall-Hardware Stores 5%, Factories 1%, Junkyards 3%, and Warehouses 0.5%.

Lighted Search rates - Mall Hardware Stores 7%, Factories 2%, Junkyards 4%, and Warehouses 1%.

Base damage per hit: 1

Base to hit %: 10%

Upgraded to hit: 30%

Skills which upgrade to hit %: Hand to Hand Combat

Special abilities: When fueled does 3 more damage. Zombies cannot use the extra 3 damage.

Ammo: 1 Fuel can=10 Ammo

Reload: Takes one AP to fuel Chainsaw with Fuel. Fuel is taken from the inventory when used.

Ammo Limit: The chainsaw can be loaded with 20 Ammo max.

Ammo use: Uses one ammo for every attack, successful or not.

Even if you only used 4 ammo and the Chainsaw still had 16 ammo if you fueled it the Fuel Can will still count as used and will be removed from the inventory. Note: If there's a generator in the building and you want to reload the Chainsaw, not the generator, then you click the Chainsaw button in the inventory.

Discussion (Chainsaw)

I'm pretty sure that chainsaws are a pretty old and recurring dupe. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 17:24, 8 August 2009 (BST)

This is weaker than a fire axe when you have it fully advanced. So really, it's just another useless weapon.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 17:28, 8 August 2009 (BST)

Yep, but that's not such a problem. It would be a flavour type weapon, and one that fits the zombie genre well. Unlike new guns, this wouldn't dilute search rates, and it's ammo is something that many players carry anyway, to fuel generators. I'm pretty sure it's been suggested before, however -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 03:51 9 August 2009 (BST)

Well we have this in Peer Review. So, the question is, is THIS version better or different enough? The only real thing this one has going for it is higher fuel capacity and the ability to use it "unpowered". Another thing, hand to hand only provides +15%, not 20%.--Pesatyel 05:32, 9 August 2009 (BST)

Lab Experience Improvement?

Timestamp: Mooman72v2 06:42, 7 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Skill Change

Scope: Players with Lab Experience Skill

Description: Here's the Idea: Since players with Lab Experience aparrently know how to use the revivification syringes, why can't they help other players do it? My idea is that if someone without Lab Experience (Which I will now start referring to as LE to save time) has some revivification syringes, why couldn't someone with LE help the other person do so. First, there will be a setting for the players with LE: Auto-Help with syringes? ()yes ()no ()ask first

Anyways, when a person without LE who has some revivification syringes is in the same building or block with a zombie and a person with LE, thye could ask the person with LE to help with using the syringes. The person with LE, depending on their setting, will either help, not, or ask when the person logs in. The person who is helping will use 1 or no AP, while the person without LE will use the full 10 AP. The XP from said zombie will be split so that both players recive 5 xp. There could also be a small to medium chance that the person being helped will not understand the instructions, and waste the syringe or not use it. Only one AP will be used in this case.

Discussion (Lab Experience Improvement?)

Why? --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 07:35, 7 August 2009 (BST)

So folk can more easily clear buildings with low level zergs? --Honestmistake 08:22, 7 August 2009 (BST)

Useless, overcomplicated, and game-breaking; did you even read the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 16:38, 7 August 2009 (BST)

Aside from the fact that I think it is a bad idea, how would the "ask first" option work? What if the person with the syringe left the area before the person they asked help from logged in? --Uberursa 19:16, 7 August 2009 (BST)

As Honestmistake mentioned this would present serious zerging problems. Also, you have to consider that it is "fun" for players to level up and buy the skills to do things. If you follow this line of reasoning we would have level 42 players helping newbs fire off shotguns and search more efficiently for ammo and perform surgery and ransack buildings etc.--_GANG Giles Sednik_CAPD 19:43, 7 August 2009 (BST)

iPhone App (2.0)

Timestamp: ChiTownBear 09:13, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Game Extension?

Scope: players with iPhones and iPod touches

Description: Just a simple, easy to use iPhone app. There could be a city made just for the app users. Also, the app would be able to stay logged into all of our accounts so that we lazy iPhone/iPodtouch users won't have to remember our passwords, nor will we have to log out to switch characters. Since the game is free, the app should probably be free too.

Discussion (iPhone App (2.0))

There was a group of players who, early on, were dis-satisfied with Urban Dead, so they made their own game called Nexus War. There is your answer.--Pesatyel 10:29, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Nexus war wasn't made by a group of players. And they definitely weren't dissatisfied.-- High Overlord and Lead Conspirator of the Administrative Rebellion. Want help? 17:30, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Obviously I wasn't aware of that, but its moot. He doesn't want to play Urban Dead (which is, basically, what he's saying in his suggestion) he can make his own game.--Pesatyel 04:09, 5 August 2009 (BST)

He doesn't want to go through all that work; he wants kevin to do it for him. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 04:10, 5 August 2009 (BST)

Again (and again), this is for in-game suggestions. Program your own ap thats compatible with UD, if you're so inclined. --ϑϑℜ 10:34, 4 August 2009 (BST)

	THIEF
	This user has stolen a template from Lelouch vi Britannia! He is not amused. Feel free to point, laugh, and generally mock anyone other than Lelouch who posts this.

As DDR; your idea didn't work the first time and it won't work the second. You were told all of this the first time you posted it, but obviously forgot or ignored all of it; for further evidence of ignorance, this idea is almost a carbon copy of the ridiculous facebook suggestion below. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 15:52, 4 August 2009 (BST)

As Lelouch's fancy template--Orange Talk 15:54, 4 August 2009 (BST)

The template speaks truth. --

Rooster Dragon

16:05, 4 August 2009 (BST)

You want an app for your lPhone or your OrangeBerry or whatever? You make it. Don't ask Kevan to; there are plenty of other things he could be doing than interacting with hardware he may or may not have and a smelly company. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 16:51, 4 August 2009 (BST)

The only thing redeeming about the last version was the fact that you pathetic iusers were paying for it. Now that it's free, it's completely useless to the rest of us.-- High Overlord and Lead Conspirator of the Administrative Rebellion. Want help? 17:30, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Whoa guys, settle down. You act like I'm committing some crime against humanity. To DDR- Where should I suggest this? To Lelouch- I don't know what suggestion you were reading, but this isn't the same as the last one. This is, in fact, the version 2.0 that one of you guys suggested that I should make. To all the haters-

What do you have against iPhones?
Just because it doesn't benefit you doesn't mean it is a bad idea.
I don't know how to make an app, and it isn't my place to make one for someone else's game.
Don't bring Kevan into this. You aren't Kevan. This is a discussion between players. --ChiTownBear 20:56, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Tell me why we want Kevan creating a thing that does not benefit the game in any way? - User:Whitehouse 21:41, 4 August 2009 (BST)

It would bring more players to the game, and people who don't go home for days at a time still would be able to play. As for how it benefits people without iPhones or iPod touches, it doesn't, but it doesn't hurt them either. It would benefit the people who can use it, and it won't affect the people who can't. Also since we are already conjecturing about what Kevan would think, wouldn't he love the idea because more players would mean more donations? --ChiTownBear 21:53, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Perhaps he wouldn't love the idea - he'll have to learn a new coding language to cater to a very small portion of the UD community. Anyway, I'm not Kevan, so this isn't really for me to say. And besides, there's already a browser on the iPhone. Unless Kevan's got the extra time to learn a new coding language and actually code the thing (which is probably easier said then done, since it's an MMO,) there isn't much point. Unless you can be bothered learning to code yourself, just use the browser. Linkthewindow Talk 22:07, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Well, you can play it perfectly fine as is, you just have to zoom in, asking for an app that is not needed seems unnecessary. I know this because I have an iTouch and have played Urban Dead on it quite a few times. Moving on, this could affect players without iPhones/iTouches. You might have noticed that Kevan doesn't update the game that often, if Kevan begins to use time that he would normally use upgrading the current city on building this app and a new city instead, it would actually mean even fewer updates, which is negative for those players not using iPhones/iTouches. As for more donations, it's possible that there would be more, I really don't know anything about donation statistics. - User:Whitehouse 22:06, 4 August 2009 (BST)

AFAIK, donations are more a "beer fund" then an actual source of income. Even then, this game would just produce enough money to cover the server costs. Linkthewindow Talk 22:08, 4 August 2009 (BST)

One, I (because I can't speak for everyone) don't have anything against iPhones in particular. I'm not "against" iPhones, I'm "for" equal access to the game and tools. First you were suggesting unfair advantages for them and now you're suggesting something that's basically a lot of work for a little fix. As for point 4, it IS all about Kevan, because if this is to be done, he'll either have to do it or at least approve it. And of course, because I don't like your silly suggestion, that means I must hate you. Pfft. Oh, and you're committing crimes against reason and common sense. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW}

22:14, 4 August 2009 (BST)

I can't see any harm in this suggestion myself. Sure it is not for the current game but nor are those suggestions we get for Monroe only, or for "hardcore" cities and they can be discussed here... Now to why this is a bad idea.... basically it boils down to: Why should Kevan bother going through all the (probable) legal hoops required to make an App for a specialist platform if he is not going to make some sort of profit? Obviously that is for him to decide as would any actual details... That really means that this is less a suggestion than a request and that it should in fact be on Kevans user page. For what its worth though I think it could be a pretty good idea and I don't even own an I-Phone. --Honestmistake 22:10, 4 August 2009 (BST)

First off, I want to say thank you for making valid points. That being said, maybe it could cost 99 cents? I don't know how much a server costs, but the game supports all of its players now on only donations (I also don't know how much is donated, but I'd imagine it isn't much). If it can do that then couldn't the server and beer be easily paid for if all the app players paid one dollar? I just don't use the browser on the iPhone because its a pain to zoom in and out, and its easy to accidentally click the wrong button. In my opinion, making those inconveniences go away is definitely worth a dollar. I'm not a computer person, but isn't coding a browser based game the same as coding an app based game? And about Kevan, 1. where is his user page and 2.(just for some closure) shouldn't we just be establishing whether the players think it is a good add on or not, and let him decide if he wants to go through the trouble of making it? As for there being fewer updates, I guess that could be true, but no suggestion is perfect, right? --ChiTownBear 22:55, 4 August 2009 (BST)

This idea is an Epic Fail for the following reasons:

It needlessly wastes time and real-world money; suppose all you want, but you can't guarantee it will be made back.
It only benefits people with iPhones, who can already play normal UD just fine.
This suggestion doesn't even go here; it is not an improvement to Urban dead, it's a completely new game, and it wouldn't even help browser players at all.

If you want an iPhone app, then, as I said before, get a team together and make one; for further information, please see my above template. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 23:33, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Afterthought: You don't even have to take our word for it, although that is what this entire page is about. Take it to voting if you want; I'll grab some chess pieces and call my Knightmare pilot. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 23:38, 4 August 2009 (BST)

So this app would be free? nice i would use it.--Agunin_Anoven 00:24, 5 August 2009 (BST)

I agree with your point about people answering for kevan, but if you want to talk to kevan go to his site and email him yo.--Agunin_Anoven 00:27, 5 August 2009 (BST)

Good idea, I didn't know kevan had a site. --ChiTownBear 03:01, 5 August 2009 (BST)

I'm severely confused. You can go onto the net on an iPhone. Why do people need an ap for it? --ϑϑℜ 03:28, 5 August 2009 (BST)

You don't, and when we told ChiTown that, he went and suggested a whole new city just for iPhone users in an attempt to "fix" his idea. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 04:03, 5 August 2009 (BST)

What stupidity. The extra cities Borehamwood and Monroeville had such poor numbers when it was free and accessible to any browser-compatible hardware, so he wants to make one thats only accessible to paying users and only on an iPhone. --ϑϑℜ 04:24, 5 August 2009 (BST)

What he should be asking for is a simple interface change when the server detects that it's an iPhone/iTouch that is being used (servers can actually detect that), not that any interface change is going to help much because the simple fact is that the iPhone/iTouch screens are too small for easy access without using the zoom function, the very thing he seems to be wanting to avoid. - User:Whitehouse 04:32, 5 August 2009 (BST)

If all he does is argue against people regarding the validity of his suggestion, he might as well take it to voting right now. --ϑϑℜ 04:35, 5 August 2009 (BST)

I thought the whole point of Developing Suggestions was to stop suggestions like this making it to voting. Now I'm confused :( - User:Whitehouse 04:39, 5 August 2009 (BST)

What made you think that? It is MUCH easier to get it taken to voting then spam and/or dupe it forever.--Pesatyel 06:20, 5 August 2009 (BST)

That gives it the added bonus of making sure it never gets off the ground again. --ϑϑℜ 11:52, 5 August 2009 (BST)

I wasn't being serious. Now that you guys mention it, that does seem to be a method for getting rid of bad suggestions, but it does kinda go against the whole idea that we're meant to be improving the suggestions :p - User:Whitehouse 15:00, 5 August 2009 (BST)

DS is designed to allow suggestions to get input to tinker with the mechanics, until a majority of the community thinks its been made the best it can be. That process can't happen if the user refuses to a) accept the suggestion is bad or b)refuses to allow the suggestion to get modified in any way. If a user won't allow either a) or b) to happen they might as well save us the stress and put their suggestion up for voting. It isn't our fault they don't want our... "help". --ϑϑℜ 15:10, 5 August 2009 (BST)

Please stop saying EPIC FAIL LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Believe it or not it actually isn't funny Cyberbob Talk 11:55, 5 August 2009 (BST)

Actually, its the primary method for getting rid of suggestions period.--Pesatyel 04:34, 6 August 2009 (BST)

I wasn't saying it to be funny; I was attempting to describe how colossally flawed this concept is. The internets r srs business. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 15:27, 5 August 2009 (BST)

Dear idiot, you can use Safari on an iPhone well enough to play Urban Dead. I know this because my self and one DanceDanceRevolution once used a display iPhone in a Vodafone store to log into a friend/group members *cough gomerpyle cough* profile, added brain rot and then jumped out of a building. If we can do this, you can play urban dead.--CyberRead240 15:24, 5 August 2009 (BST)

We told him that the first time, and he decided to "improve" his suggestion by asking for a whole city just for iPhone users. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 15:27, 5 August 2009 (BST)

Although I agree with the majority of the opinions above I'm going to try be a bit more helpful... Your main issues appear to be the effort of logging in with different profiles and the screen size (specifically having to zoom in)...

Suggestions for improving

Increase the default zoom level for your browser/Urbandead.com.

If you can't do this then I suggest you take this up with the iCrap Team. --Kamikazie-Bunny 23:40, 5 August 2009 (BST)

Contacts list improvement

Timestamp: Vidmaa 08:20, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Contacts page interface

Scope: All players

Description: Now in contacts page there are possibility to put color out of 8 possible (not counting default grey) on name of person you adding - this is very useful - but with many contacts it is difficult to remember what color means

My suggestion is to add simple box on contacts page where every user could write for himself what every color means for him.

Discussion (Contacts list improvement)

This'd be really easy with a simple Greasemonkey script or something. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 08:36, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Isn't there already a "notes" field?--Pesatyel 10:28, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Afraid not. This suggestion isn't so bad, except I'll add that I've never had a problem with remembering colours, even when I come back to an account after 2 years. All it takes it to look at the name and their group and something should ring. --ϑϑℜ 10:35, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Ah, I was mistaking the "group" field for it. That's what I get for going from memory when I don't use contact much lol.--Pesatyel 04:21, 5 August 2009 (BST)

I like this suggestion. I can't remember what purple is, and now I have no idea who "Max Lloyd" is, or why he's on my contacts.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:39, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Purple for me used to be for 'fans' that gave me a shoutout in-game, but after 2007 I had to change it to something else cause there weren't enough colours for all my needs. Hence, I'd be in more favour of just adding a larger colour palette. --ϑϑℜ 10:43, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Perhaps both? I mean, I don't really use my contacts list anymore, but I know that it can be problematic for some people.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:54, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Dont see a downside really. A box of what 20 characters? Incidentally. Zombies = Green, Red= Bad. --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 10:59, 4 August 2009 (BST)

I use Green for friendly contacts, Red for enemies, black for the first person who killed me, Purple I don't know, Blue for people who might be enemies but I don't know yet, Yellow and Orange for people who are neutral or ex-enemies respectively. But some people use different colours for GKers, PKers, barricade destroyers, zombies death cultists, allies, and members of their own group. So it can get pretty hectic.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:08, 4 August 2009 (BST)

I'm surprised it's not a dupe, but I like it, although the part about putting in a description so you can remember the colours is a bit of overkill. All you really need is a colour for friends, foes and group members, with perhaps other groups as other colours (and you can tell them by their listed group affiliation). If you can't remember, it can't be that important :p -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:21 4 August 2009 (BST)

The part about putting in a description so you can remember the colours is the whole suggestion. --Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:54, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Oh, I thought it was also to allow you to pick the colour at the same time as saving a contact... meh then -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 16:23 4 August 2009 (BST)

i was thinking about that too as if you have 50+ contacts on your list - you add one and then open contacts list again to find the one who is grey to put color on it.. Vidmaa 17:00, 4 August 2009 (BST)

It is, basically, a dupe. The author wants to add a field to explain the colors.--Pesatyel 04:21, 5 August 2009 (BST)

Well it is similar - i haven't found it before i made this - but what i am suggesting is one simple box the you could just put like red - enemy, yellow genny and radio destroyers,purple - revived me, blue i revived .. etc. and everyone decides what is needed for himself, by this making more clear what is around you in the building. To put notes under each name is good, but a little excessive in my opinion. Vidmaa 09:56, 5 August 2009 (BST)

I accept what you're saying and I would vote keep if it got put up for voting (as opposed to a dupe) but the only problem is, that suggestion got 100% keep votes and still didn't get implemented, so you'd have to question whether Kevan would think the same with this suggestion. It is simpler though, so you never really know. --ϑϑℜ 15:12, 5 August 2009 (BST)

The way I imagine this is something really similar to the box, we have as Zombie/Survivor appearance description box, somewhere at the top of contact page- that would be sufficient to make notes what color means and 255 characters is more then enough Vidmaa 16:55, 5 August 2009 (BST)

What if Kevan is yet to get through reading all of the peer reviewed suggestions. It's possible he is yet to read it.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:00, 8 August 2009 (BST)

Similar? It is the same thing. You have a field that you can type whatever you want into it. You said "putting notes under each name is a little accessive" but that is EXACTLY what your suggesting here. Your just limiting it to things like "red = enemy" even though it is up to each person to actually type "red = enemy" into the field. So tell me how you would limit it to that in the first place? If it is a strict limitation to color definitions only, you might as well just suggest strict color definitions themselves so you wouldn't even NEED a field.--Pesatyel 04:41, 6 August 2009 (BST)

Yes it would be the same as in description page, but only one, so everyone can define color meaning for itself (ok red and green usually clear, but the rest are not) and it is NOT like for every person you add in contacts. player would had 255 symbols - so if he like he can name all colors, if he likes he can describe several persons. but he would have ONLY ONE box at the top, strict color would not work as i believe different players have different thoughts about what should be added to contacts list and marked. Vidmaa 07:35, 6 August 2009 (BST)

Ok, now your confusing me. Only one box? Your going to have to have a field for every color so that a person can TYPE IN what the color means. So you will have a box for red so that you can type in what red means. A box for blue, so that you can type in what blue means, etc. So its not one box, it is 8 (or more if he adds more colors). And my comment about strict colors was exactly as you said, undoable because they are defined differently by each player. The point of all this is why do you need an extra set of fields, which would necessarily be seperate from the rest of the contacts, to define the colors when you can do the same thing IN the contacts via a "notes" field. If bob heals you and you make a note that he healed you and gave him the color green then green would, generally, mean "healer". I think I'm just misunstanding your response.--Pesatyel 09:57, 6 August 2009 (BST)

How about if everyone gets a box on their setting (255 characters or whatever) for notes, which doesn't show up on their profile. Then it wouldn't be limited to colour, it could explain anything someone needs to remember.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:03, 8 August 2009 (BST)

Is that what he's suggesting?--Pesatyel 05:18, 9 August 2009 (BST)

I like the idea. Maybe just a little specification on the number of characters are allowed for any particular field. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 08:05, 6 August 2009 (BST)

Birthday Loot!

Timestamp: BlackDeath3 22:19, 3 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Special Flavor Event

Scope: Everybody!

Description: It's a fairly simple idea, and arose when I looked at the UD homepage and read the part about UD being four years old. I know that other games do this as well. Players can submit their birthdate into their profile, and on their birthday, they receive special birthday loot! It could come with a random assortment of useful items and weapons, and even a little birthday card, but it would just be a cool little flavor event that happens once a year. The alert message could say something like:

"Although it feels like just another day in post-apocalyptic Malton, it isn't. On your casual search through the ruin and rubble of Malton, you find something unexpected... Happy Birthday <insert username here>!"

You could find a crate or bag of some sort, possibly left over from a helicopter drop, long buried from before the outbreak, or however you would like to rationalize it. You could crack it open with a crowbar, axe, gun, or some sort of weapon, and watch your loot spill out in a sea of foam packing peanuts! Zombies could find this as well, and maybe keep the items in case they revive. Or the zombies could just smash it to pieces to receive their birthday present - XP! Of course, players would have only one chance to set their birthday, and then it is locked to prevent abuse of this feature. You wouldn't even need to put in your birth year if you didn't want to, just the month and day. It wouldn't need to be viewable to the public, in the event that you care. It would just be there for your once a year birthday loot! Anyone with helpful suggestions, add-ons, whatever, they are welcome. And as for the inevitable flame... I brought my shield :)

Discussion (Birthday Loot!)

What about the poor maxed-out career zombies? They have little want of XP or items. --

Rooster Dragon

22:29, 3 August 2009 (BST)

I tried to include zombies as well, because I think everybody should get something out of this. I've never had a high-level career zombie, so if you know of something that would benefit that audience, feel free to throw it in :) BlackDeath3 22:31, 3 August 2009 (BST)

Perhaps a random ultra-rare zombie flavor item? In fact, you could make a whole array of clothing and accessories that are only accessible via birthday troves; it would be random which one you get, and you would only get one per trove. Players who smash open their trove would get zombie/death-centric items while players who open it (which can happen regardless of state) would get survivor stuff; or, you could just make it all cross-state (AKA gold watches, party hats, hypno-glasses...etc.) Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:49, 4 August 2009 (BST)

My first thought was "flavor item". But that just seems boring, unless it is a clothing item (something others can see). My other thought (between "flavor item" and clothing) was some minor bonus like +5% to hit for that day.--Pesatyel 04:51, 4 August 2009 (BST)

I was thinking random super-rare birthday-only flavor clothing or accessory as well. It doesn't break the game and it gives people something to look forward to; it also rewards long-time players. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 04:54, 4 August 2009 (BST)

I like those ideas, of the flavor items. And, if you were to get some special, random item, it would give you a feeling of exclusivity, to have an item that one cannot just come by on their own, but must chance upon on their birthday. It would reward the long-time players, and their collection of these birthday items could slowly grow year by year! BlackDeath3 10:22, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Just make sure it is flavour items, or clothing of some sort, not weapons. Nothing game-changing. --ϑϑℜ 10:36, 4 August 2009 (BST)

I see no problem with throwing in a few, actual items, seeing as how it would be no different than finding a supply crate on July 3rd, or Christmas, or Easter. But the flavor is a nice idea. -- BlackDeath3 10:57, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Yes it is the world of difference, because crates happen to 1% of the population and this will happen to everyone at their own specified time. --ϑϑℜ 11:00, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Zombies and survivors can change into clean clothes on their birthdays! its a birthday suit! --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 10:54, 4 August 2009 (BST)

My character's already in his birthday suit... --ϑϑℜ 10:55, 4 August 2009 (BST)

It's not exactly clean though :p -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:12 4 August 2009 (BST)

Thanks to you... ;D --ϑϑℜ 15:13, 5 August 2009 (BST)

Too cutesie, and invokes teh hand of god -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:12 4 August 2009 (BST)

Doesn't every suggestion? It's not like anyone else is in a position to implement anything we approve. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 15:54, 4 August 2009 (BST)

No, other suggestions may make "god like" changes to the game, but they usually don't involve Kevan magically, and regularly, zapping gifts into existence for a specific person, depending upon the date that someone was born. I mean, how believable is it that you just happen to find a birthday card and pressies, on the 1 in 365 days that it is actually your birthday? Crappy flavour, and it doesn't fit with a zombie apocalypse -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 16:30 4 August 2009 (BST)

But haven't we always said that gameplay takes precedence over flavor? An unlimited supply of fuel and generators isn't realistic or in-genre, and kevin wouldn't have to do anything other then program it in as he would any other idea. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 17:19, 4 August 2009 (BST)

All those things are axioms of the game. They need to be in place for it to work indefinitely, and be balanced. Birthday cards and free goodies, beamed to you out of nowhere, on your "special day" is another thing altogether... and don't get me started on the party hats, chrismas trees and lights

-- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 00:47 5 August 2009 (BST)

Not to mention various date specific items already in game like the party hats and christmas trees. I like the idea of some minor "special" items (not more than 1 per birthday though) maybe a "BOOMSTICK" shotgun that does 12 damage but can't be reloaded or a clip of armour piercing ammo or (as its your birthday) a Katana that breaks after a few hits? Nothing game breaking but something a little bit special for a slight boost. The zombie equivalent could be special flavour text and a slight boost for an few attacks "Striking the barricade you manage to dislodge a huge section.... it seems to be a special day!" or "you claw at survivor bob for 4 damage and rip out his still beating heart... he dies screaming while you feast!" Again a very slight and limited duration bonus which is more fun for the flavour than the extra bit of damage...--Honestmistake 17:45, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Multiplied times a billion, that could potentially have huge impacts on the game; people might even make throwaway characters to get those overpowered chances/items. Plus, not every player is a fanatic hardcore trenchcoater; flavor clothing and accessories are fun and don't break the game. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 17:50, 4 August 2009 (BST)

No one is going to create a billion characters and then level them enough that any attack is going to have any real chance to hit (well maybe a zombie zerg looking for a cade bonus?) A survivor getting an extra 4 damage from 2 shots is not going to be game breaking as a once a year special and a zombie scoring claw kill on a 4 or less hp target is again not going to register in stats... Both would be fun though and could perhaps be made less zergable by requiring a confirmed e-mail address? --Honestmistake 18:00, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Or, we could just not give people superpowers on their birthday? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 18:38, 4 August 2009 (BST)

ignoring armour on 6 shots, doing an extra 2 damage on 2 shots or having the potential to cause 4 damage with a claw in a very narrow time window and circumstance are not "superpowers. Haing a chance to remove 2 levels of cades in 1 blow is hardly super either (though its a lot closer) However I have a better way to do this.... just make it a special bonus for accounts that have paid for the IP boost. Its a nice, low impact gift for those that support the game and if multiplied by a million I will expect a royalties cheque from Kevan :) --Honestmistake 19:39, 4 August 2009 (BST)

We shouldn't give more gifts to donaters. They have enough with the 300-hit limit. And suppose a group all set their birthdays for the same day? A group like the dead could take over the city in a day with these bonuses. So really, it'd have to just be flavour.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:50, 7 August 2009 (BST)

I wasn't suggesting nuclear warheads, maybe just a couple little items as a birthday thing. And sure it doesn't exactly make sense, but neither does being able to die infinitely and indefinitely. The reason that you can die and still come back to life is because it makes the game FUN, and I think that a little birthday loot would add a little fun as well. It's not like Kevan would have to individually, manually gift thousands of people their gifts everyday, I'm sure he could automate that. -- BlackDeath3 20:51, 4 August 2009 (BST)

I agree with this suggestion so long as it delivers only delicious flavor on your birthday and not items. Items are for really just for survivors, and you have to consider encumbrance yadda yadda.--_GANG Giles Sednik_CAPD 20:00, 7 August 2009 (BST)

Yeah, OK... I'm all for the flavor :) BlackDeath3 07:03, 8 August 2009 (BST)

Give Power Stations Use

Timestamp: Justinbronze 20:04, 2 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Building Addition/New Item/New Skill Set

Scope: Power Stations

Description: Ever wonder why Malton has Power Stations if they don't provide power? This suggestion will change all of that! My suggestion is,Power Stations can provide power to a building, lighting it up like a generator, only no refuel need for the building. The catch however, The Power Station must be powered by a generator, fueling the generator in the Power Station provides 48 hours of power before refueling is needed (unlike the usual 125 hours.), and in order for the building to receive power from the Power Station, the 2 must be connected by a extension cord, which is my idea for a new item. Extension cords can be found in Warehouses (7%), Factories (4%), and Power Stations (21%). Extension cords are primarily rubber, so they can't be destroyed,unless a zombie with the Memories of Life Skill Unplug, which I suggest could be slightly higher in XP cost like 125, unplugs the extension cord, it then disappears, but anew one can be re-attached. A new skill set would be introduced called Electrician, which allows you to plug in extension cords,XP cost,50 for scientists, and 75 for other survivor classes. Those with the Electrician skill can access another skill Unplug for 100 XP ( XP cost is that high for obvious PKer reasons.) You must be outside to attach extension cords, and extension cords can be attached to powered buildings to provide power to neighboring buildings, not just attach them to the Power Station. 1 extension cord can cover 1 block.

Flavour Text:

Survivor: You attach an extension cord to the building.

You attach an extension cord to another, extending the cord further.

You attach an extension cord to the building, the lights go on inside.

For some deluded reason, you unplug the extension cord, the lights in the building you unplugged it from go out. <---May need to have alts because more than one building may go out, and I added deluded because only a PKer would unplug them.

Zombie: You are on Random Location Street there is an extension cord running through here.

You are outside The Random Building. An extension cord runs through the street and connects to the building.

You Unplug the extension cord, the lights go out in the building you unplugged it from. <--- This will need to be altered as more than one building may go out.

Discussion (Give Power Stations Use)

Some light reading: PR_Buildings:_Specific_Types#Power_Stations --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 20:11, 2 August 2009 (BST)

As Bob, If you let this out into the mainstream there is a good chance you will be deluged with kill and Dupe votes to the point of absurdity. It needs something else to set it apart from the rest... I may have an idea,if I think you can use it I'll post it later. -Devorac 01:18, 3 August 2009 (BST)

It's a dupe. Leave Power Plants alone; they don't power entire suburbs; they don't have infinite fuel reserves lying around; they don't have an infinite supply of repair parts; the only thing they actually do is serve as WTFcentaur nests and breeding grounds. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:16, 3 August 2009 (BST)

In fairness, the rest of Malton seems to have an infinite supply of everything. It's just well hidden.

I think this suggestion is toothless however, cords running outside would last no time at all. The makeshift "power grid" they would make wouldn't stay intact long enough to power anything a block away, let alone any further. --

Rooster Dragon

04:17, 3 August 2009 (BST)

Alright, Justin here is one of the better ways I can see your idea -At least a butchered version of it- working is this. First off, ditch the power station thing. Maltons power stations have been dead for 3 years with only rats to run maintenance on them, no way in hell is setting a genny in it and flippin a switch going to turn them on again, cause a catastrophic explosion maybe, generate stable power... no. The part of your Idea I really liked was the generators and extension cords. If you add the extension cord item which will allow you to plug the cable into a genny and into another building (as long as the building is unruined) and power it. For this to work you would have to keep the cables vulnerable, and the life of the genny could be halved for every cable inserted. (120 hours, no cables- 60 hours, 1 cable- 30 hours, 2 cables- 15 hours, 3 cables.) I think you should be able to only plug in 3 cables to any one genny for realism purposes, as well as preventing morons from causing gennies to drain in seconds by placing a ba-zillion cables on. So I think you might be able to get this Idea to survive, if you can omit power stations and just go with gennies and cables. Hope this helps you to re-form you suggestion. -Devorac 07:48, 3 August 2009 (BST)

Er, why would we even want this needless over-complication of the power system in UD? "One genny, one building" too easy to understand and balance? --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW}

07:57, 3 August 2009 (BST)

It might not be a dupe, but it's certainly unbalanced, unrealistic, needlessly complicated and useless all at the same time. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 15:11, 3 August 2009 (BST)

*Sighs* It is a cool idea though if you only needed a brief bit of power, pity that it would be so ineffective in practice, probably why I like to stick with suggestions where I can use hard math to back them up. -Devorac 18:57, 3 August 2009 (BST)

Hmmm, adding extension cords to factories would dilute search rates in factories which are the best source of generators for survivors who don't hang out in Malls. Aside from that, the cost to purchase a skill should be on the same level as all other skills in the game thus far. And I agree with the naysayers about powerstations already being dead and done.--_GANG Giles Sednik_CAPD 20:10, 7 August 2009 (BST)

Remove crucifixes

Timestamp: Orange Talk 18:19, 2 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Equipment change

Scope: Everyone

Description: Crucifixes are useless. Wire cutters were useless. Wirecutters were removed because of their uselessness, So crucifixes should be removed from the game.

Discussion (Remove crucifixes)

I support this because it will presumably boost wine search rates in churches. Also, what's with every single church in Malton being a Christian one? --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 18:23, 2 August 2009 (BST)

Just for semantics, Churches are Christian places of worship. Therefore all churches are Christian. Other religions don't have churches, they have temples, or mosques, or synagogues, etc. But the point of more ethnically diverse buildings stands. Of course, how often do you see all manner of religious buildings in your city centre?--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:36, 2 August 2009 (BST)

I'm in. --Haliman - Talk 18:27, 2 August 2009 (BST)

But then how would we make useless suggestions and bash organized religion? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 18:51, 2 August 2009 (BST)

The same way we do now. We wait for someone to make a suggestion about adding them in, or with some new bit added on to that, then we flame them.-- High Overlord and Lead Conspirator of the Administrative Rebellion. Want help? 18:53, 2 August 2009 (BST)

I was going to say why don't we make a clothing item instead. Then I looked and found the game already yas "a crucifix necklace" (and a few other religious related ones). So yeah, having this one also is redundant.--Pesatyel 19:31, 2 August 2009 (BST)

Seems fair. Plus im somehow drawn to the word uselessness --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 19:38, 2 August 2009 (BST)

Change your name to uselessness. Do eeet.-- High Overlord and Lead Conspirator of the Administrative Rebellion. Want help? 20:56, 2 August 2009 (BST)

The programming alone would be effortful. --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:17, 2 August 2009 (BST)

I'll do it for you.-- High Overlord and Lead Conspirator of the Administrative Rebellion. Want help? 04:07, 3 August 2009 (BST)

The flavour is fine just the way it is, useless is good -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:31 4 August 2009 (BST)

There is a difference between the Wire Cutters and Crucifix. Wire cutters had a use, which then became voided when that use was no longer needed. Crucifixes have never had a use. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 11:44, 5 August 2009 (BST)

And your point is....?--Pesatyel 04:44, 6 August 2009 (BST)

Kevan removed the wire cutters as their intended use (cutting wire fences) was no longer useful. Crucifixes have never had an intended use (aside from RP'ing) and as such cannot be removed for not being useful, as they were never useful in the first place. Wire Cutters were obsolete. Crucifixes are not obsolete as they still do what they did before: Nothing. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 05:08, 6 August 2009 (BST)

As above --DOWN WITH THE 'CRATS!!! | Join Nod!!! 05:38, 6 August 2009 (BST)

I actually wonder what percentage of players even have one in their inventory.--Pesatyel 04:44, 6 August 2009 (BST)

I would support this. I want to keep crucifixes alive for the fun of it, but they are just useless and I wouldn't care if they went. --ϑϑℜ 08:11, 6 August 2009 (BST)

All of you crucifix bashers are going to be very sorry when the vampires take over.--_GANG Giles Sednik_CAPD 20:12, 7 August 2009 (BST)

I'm not gonna let these damn vampires beat me. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 05:25, 9 August 2009 (BST)

Bull Rush

Timestamp: Fixxxer 09:41, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Type: New Skill

Scope: A new skill that survivors might use directly against zombies

Description: A problem I have noticed as a survivor is when barricades come down and zombies come in and wreck a little havoc, but then run out of AP and just stand around, forcing the survivors to either barricade the zombies in with them or leave the building un-barricaded with the doors wide open in the hope that the zombies will decide to go for a stroll outside. With this skill, a survivor would potentially be able to charge a zombie and bull rush it out of the building through an open door, rather than having to attack it until it drops and then boot the body outside. I would suggest a 30% chance of success, with a 70% chance that the survivor loses his grip on the zombie, which stays indoors while he ends up out in the street. Either way, I would suggest that the survivor end up outside as well, though with an open door and no barricades, he could rush back inside and begin barricading. I would also suggest that this action consume 2AP (one for grabbing the zombie and one for shoving it through the door).

The key thing to note here is that this is only possible in an un-barricaded building with the doors standing open. This is meant as a sort of emergency action to (hopefully) get a zombie or two out of the building so it can be safely barricaded or repaired, not as a combat maneuver to injure the zombie.

Discussion (Bull Rush)

Now that you got this here, I suggest you withdraw your actual suggestion. There should be instructions for it around here somewhere. :/ -- High Overlord and Lead Conspirator of the Administrative Rebellion. Want help? 09:44, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Fair enough. I'm interested in dialog that explains why this skill would be so bad. Thus far, I've been told that it's bad because it costs less overall AP than shooting the zombie until it falls down, then dumping the body. However, I would point out that you get no AP for using this skill AND that it has a limited actual usefulness because it can only be used inside a building that has no barricades and the doors are open. Lastly, it doesn't cost the zombie any AP, so it doesn't have to use up AP before it starts tearing your barricades down again. Fixxxer 09:57, 1 August 2009 (BST)

So? Your average high-level human won't care about lack of XP anyway, so that doesn't really matter. As I said on the page, it pretty much nerfs shooting and CR-ing as whenever you want to kill a zombie, the zombie will be inside a unbarricaded building with open doors. The whole point of killing a zombie is not to kill it per se, but to remove it from the building so you can start barricading again with no penalty. This skill allows you to remove a zombie without having to search for any items.

Thanks, however for taking the criticism on the suggestion page well (and not throwing a fit like other users do.) With a bit more practice, you'll be making peer reviewed suggestions in no time :). Be sure to read FS and S/DDN before submitting again ;).

Finally, you withdrew your suggestion wrongly - you don't simply blank the page, you've to to add a template (and not blank the page.) I'll fix it for you now. Linkthewindow Talk 10:49, 1 August 2009 (BST)

I appreciate that. Thank you. --Fixxxer 20:27, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Silly harmanz with silly suggestions. If you bull rush me, I will be eating your face.--Agunin_Anoven 10:13, 1 August 2009 (BST)

How very, very helpful. --Fixxxer 10:40, 1 August 2009 (BST)

You get used to it soon enough. We're all just one big hateful family around here. :) -- High Overlord and Lead Conspirator of the Administrative Rebellion. Want help? 10:56, 1 August 2009 (BST)

At the very least, such a skill would need to require the zombie to be brought down to low HP before being bullrushed out of the building, the same way that only survivors at 12 or less HP can be dragged out of wide open buildings. But I think that has been suggested before -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 13:15 1 August 2009 (BST)

That sounds fair. If the zombie is below X number of hit points, you have a chance at pushing it outside. What if we further took Devorac's advice into consideration, but instead of giving a bonus for having the Bodybuilding skill, we made Bodybuilding a requirement to get Bull Rush in the first place? --Fixxxer 20:27, 1 August 2009 (BST)

There's already a dupe for that, although it never went the full voting time... was headed for spam -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:02 2 August 2009 (BST)

Hmm... what about this, You can only bullrush a zombie that has less HP than you do, and it will cost an extra 1 (possibly 2 for balance reasons) AP per ten health the zombie has (minimum of 1 extra AP cost), plus another AP if the zombie has rotting flesh. I think this reflects that the zombie is struggling instead of just placidly being led away. This also helps to slightly level out the huge difference between rushing, and killing the zombie with a conventional weapon. Also after the survivor has performed this move he/she should also be outside with said zombie, so add another AP to get back inside. It is also possible to reduce the cost of the rush if the survivor had the bodybuilding skill, as that would -if this really happened- be quite helpful. -Devorac 19:00, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Too helpful; Zombies are players too, and giving survivors to insta-remove any zombie without preparation makes any weapon useless. Either this would nerf every survivor tool against zombies in existence, or it would be useless; those are the only two outcomes. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 20:50, 1 August 2009 (BST)

*Shrugs* I agree... but it's still a fun concept. -Devorac 21:14, 1 August 2009 (BST)

First of all, I think this might be a dupe. Looks familiar. Secondly, to the author use a colon to indent your post if your responding to someone, its helpful. I'll see if I can find the dupe.--Pesatyel 21:36, 1 August 2009 (BST)

At the very least, I'd want to see a 10% chance per zombie outside that the harman doing this could not move further for at least 24 hours, without accumulating any AP as the horde would dogpile him and the one he tackled would not let go. It would be like a desperation move to save his fellow survivors, and would effectively kill his sorry ass. Otherwise, this is ridiculous. Even with the modifications I've mentioned it's wildly overpowered in favor of survivors. I doubt anything can salvage this crap suggestion.--Necrofeelinya 12:32, 2 August 2009 (BST)

It costs a fortune in zombie AP (usually a collaborative effort as well) to get inside the average UD building, so any action which removes them this simply is not on. --Papa Moloch 21:49, 2 August 2009 (BST)

FaceBook Application

Timestamp: —The preceding Template:Wikipedia comment was added by Supertrooper101 (talk • contribs) 06:11, 1 August 2009.

Type: Game Play

Scope: {{{scope}}}

Description: I beleive it would bring more players, ideas, and donation money to the site if it was some how linked into or through facebook. Face book has a HUGE base of users who only own a facebook for the time consuming of applications. Now wether u plan on just linking it through or even a special Mini Facebook Battle With its own map, charcters, weapons, and ect.. i for one beleive it would take off very quickly due to the fact that many of ur curent users undoubtly have a facebook and would be very willing to help the expansion of it across facebook to new users. I would love to see a new facebook type urban dead from u guys, cause u have created a game so simple but yet so addictive, i think its time to step it up to the next level. Thank you for ur time! i really hope u think about this one! :D

Discussion (FaceBook Application)

I don't like how this uses "u" and "ur" instead of, you know, actual words. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 07:34, 1 August 2009 (BST)

u didnt sign ur pst you n00b. gb2fb-- High Overlord and Lead Conspirator of the Administrative Rebellion. Want help? 08:35, 1 August 2009 (BST)

So basically a mini-game on Facebook that promotes the main game? I don't use Facebook at all, but since this will just be a promontion for the game, why not just make some UD-related images that people can stick on their profile. Promotes the game, without the time and effort this would involve. And Boberton is right, chatspeak is bad. It's not a lot more effort to type two extra letters, and makes your suggestion look a lot more professional and readable. Linkthewindow Talk 08:38, 1 August 2009 (BST)

I suggest that this user learns how to fucking spell "you" instead of "u", Take your dumb oneth grader spelling style back to school. Not only is spelling "you" like "u" not cool, it kills babies. as for the suggestion, ya sure whatever, facebook and myspace need ud like soo much dude fuck ya dude give em some ud and let em play it. ud man.--Agunin_Anoven 10:19, 1 August 2009 (BST)

For the second time this week: This page is for suggesting ways to improve Urban Dead, not for suggesting new apps for your qPhones or Stalkerbook. If you want a mini Urban Dead for Facebook or think it's a good idea, then get a team together, talk copyright with Kevan, and make one yourself. Please, for the love of Kevan and the suggestions process as a whole, read the Suggestions Dos and Don'ts before you post... Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 16:36, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Using facebook to expand the UD player base is a good idea but making it into an app you can play through just isn't my cup of tea, it's browser based, not a Facebook/iPhone/.exe/.deb/ application. --Kamikazie-Bunny 17:11, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Okay, I'm sorry that I'm not giving you any useful feedback here but hey. First off you apparently missed the line of the wiki that said "your suggestion is only as smart as you make it sound". Second, as you are suggesting something in a mildly professional atmosphere DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE CHATSPEAK! It makes you look like not only a goober, but a goober who doesn't really care enough to make his idea clean and well polished looking. Third, Spell check everything. The misspelled words were even worse than the chatspeak, they completely derailed me from the idea itself. Sorry if I sound harsh, but still, when you post here this is supposed to be a testing ground for real suggestions. You post something that looks like that as a suggestion and they will rip you apart with kill votes so fast your head will still be spinning next week, and a portion of them would vote kill for no other reason than the fact that your spelling/grammar are... sub-par. -Devorac 19:10, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Good idea. Might increase participation. Sorry all the other respondents seem to care more about formalities and your spelling than the game.--Necrofeelinya 12:37, 2 August 2009 (BST)

Careful Nf, he might not get the sarcasm. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 18:53, 2 August 2009 (BST)

He wasn't being sarcastic. And to an extent, he's right. He'd be more right if the suggestion was good in any form. --ϑϑℜ 11:02, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Survivor Bite Change

Timestamp: --Papa Johnny 22:41, 28 July 2009 (BST)

Type: Oddity change

Scope: Survivors

Description: Simple - When a survivor attacks with "bite" on a zombie that is infected, the survivor has a chance of becoming infected. It wouldn't modify the hit% for the attack or affect the zombie in any way beyond the normal 1 damage being dealt to it.

Discussion (Survivor Bite Change)

Survivors can't bite. Simple as that. Cookies and Cream 22:55, 28 July 2009 (BST)

Actually they can. Though it's obviously not meant to happen, you can do it via using a link with the correct attack code. - User:Whitehouse 23:06, 28 July 2009 (BST)

Yeah, but is this really an issue?--Pesatyel

Well I guess they are biting rotting flesh which probably isn't too good for their health. - User:Whitehouse 23:09, 28 July 2009 (BST)

I actually like this suggestion. It takes kind of a sick mind to think something like this up, and I can appreciate that. But I think that survivor bites should be part of the regular attack dropdown, not something requiring a "link with the correct attack code". How many hidden tools do Wiki users need? Oh, and I think there should be an accompanying message letting the player know about the potential consequences.--Necrofeelinya 07:06, 29 July 2009 (BST)

Survivors shouldn't be able to infect themselves, which is all this suggestion seems to be good for, getting an infection so that you can parachute into a barricaded building -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 07:10 29 July 2009 (BST)

Just make the % chance for infection low enough that it's not worth the effort for parachuting purposes. Then it'll only appeal to freaks like me, who think that the notion of self-infection is fun in its own right. I mean, they've got to bite a zombie, for crying out loud. How many people even consider that?--Necrofeelinya 14:44, 29 July 2009 (BST)

I guess enough that it would even need to be thought of a suggestion in anyway.--Pesatyel 03:18, 31 July 2009 (BST)

YES - Need I say more? --Kamikazie-Bunny 16:55, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Art as weapons

Timestamp: Da Ninja 09:17, 28 July 2009 (BST)

Type: Game mech change

Scope: Survivours

Description: A very simple change. All decorations/art found in Museums can be used as weapons. They would have a base damage of 1 and 25% chance of hitting. This would make nearly all items in the game have some use and also give people the ability to slap people with stuffed fish. The art would break after a few hits, similar to how the pool cue breaks after use. The different pieces of art could have different characteristics (ie glass breaks more often, statues do more dmg) though it really wouldn't make that much of a difference.

Attacking with the art would look like "You swing the (stuffed fish/abstract painting/glass bowl/etc) at (insert name here). While being hit by the art would look like "(insert name here) hit you with (stuffed fish/abstract painting/glass bowl/etc) for 1 dmg"

I had a look if this was already suggested but I couldn't see it. I wouldn't be amazed if there was somthing though.

Discussion (Art as weapons)

It may be a dupe already, but currently I love the idea, but some of the art is different to others, so the paintings should break at different rates as sculptures, yeah? --ϑϑℜ 09:23, 28 July 2009 (BST)

or just make 1 specific museum peice do as much damage as a fire axe. like whatever the rareist museum peice to find is.--Agunin_Anoven 10:22, 28 July 2009 (BST)

I don't particularly see anything wrong with the idea, although you may get some people voting it down for being "useless flavor", oxymoronic though that may be. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 16:04, 28 July 2009 (BST)

First 25% is way too high. The art objects aren't designed for "swinging" being large/unweildy/heavy/etc. Secondly, this isn't useless flavor, its JUST flavor. The game already has 8 or 9 weapons people don't use except for flavor. Thirdly, this could, potentially, promote PKing. Imagine some ass comes in and takes YOUR artwork and smashes YOU with it.--Pesatyel 02:51, 29 July 2009 (BST)

ZING! --ϑϑℜ 03:17, 29 July 2009 (BST)

"Takes YOUR artwork" - Uh, one, it's Malton's artwork, or from wherever it originated, and two, the suggestion says nothing about picking up artwork already placed in buildings. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW}

03:49, 29 July 2009 (BST)

Technicallity. If I set up my "home base" in Deacon Bank, go out and find some nice art pieces to decorate my home base, how is it not "mine"? Sure I misread, thinking it would be more logical to grab some art put on display then to look for it. It just seems pretty silly to go looking for some big unwieldy thing like a glass table or mouldering tapestry just to attack someone with it when there are already several weapons in game nobody uses that "fill the job".----Pesatyel 07:25, 29 July 2009 (BST)

Its funny too, this is, technically, a dupe.--Pesatyel 07:27, 29 July 2009 (BST)

Hell I love the idea, Being able to kill a zombie with a stuffed fish (and get the headshot message) would be funny as all get out! -Devorac 02:33, 30 July 2009 (BST)

So did I when I made, basically, the same suggestion.--Pesatyel 03:19, 31 July 2009 (BST)

I'm sorry it didn't get passed, if I had had an account then I can tell you I would have voted keep to it. But who knows, perhaps this one will pass, then -in some small way- your own idea will have passed.

If it's a dupe, it won't pass. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW}

06:38, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Fair point, but perhaps all it deserves is a re-vote. I'm sure that has happened before. -Devorac 06:43, 1 August 2009 (BST)

The re-vote is where it gets duped. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW}

07:35, 1 August 2009 (BST)

*shrugs* maybe, but if people like it enough they won't care that its a dupe. -Devorac 18:40, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Yes they will; that's how the suggestions system works around here. If the idea is a duplicate than it's automatically ineligible for consideration. This saves us from dealing with trolls who spam the same idea repeatedly and allows us to once-off the really dumb stuff that keeps popping up like item trading and machine guns. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 18:48, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Alright, my apologies I didn't understand. -Devorac 20:57, 1 August 2009 (BST)

Is it possible to get the original idea re-voted upon? I'm guessing the answer is probably no. Da Ninja ^{Random/AS also 404 Groupie Overlord in another life} 07:25, 2 August 2009 (BST)

That's just the "Urban Dead Dupe Flaw". A suggestion made 4 years ago can be claimed as a "dupe" regardless of any changes (in both player attitudes and in game features) since.--Pesatyel 04:54, 4 August 2009 (BST)

Not true. Music passed even though it was a dupe. People liked it so much they refused to dupe it. --ϑϑℜ 04:55, 6 August 2009 (BST)

Nerf Mobiles

Timestamp: Necrofeelinya 05:25, 24 July 2009 (BST)

Type: improvement

Scope: mobiles

Description: I'm just gonna float this and see what people think. The problem with groups is that they're organized on boards, not in-game. Noobs don't understand them, ferals don't want to waste the extra time with them, they circumvent the rules for AP use for speaking, broadcasting, using mobiles, all communication in-game, because people arrange for unlimited communication out-of-game with no AP cost. I propose a change that will ease communication in-game, promote in-game group organization and be usable directly from the player's interface so even noobs realize they can do it. I suggest implementing a Private Messaging system for contacts in-game. Here's how it would work:

1. PMs cost no AP to use, but do create a server hit and so count against your IPs server hit restriction. That means no more than 160 per day, max. Characters would be limited, but should be more than the current restriction on broadcast characters. I've never used a mobile, so I don't know what the restriction is on those.

2. Survivors can PM any survivor in their contacts list. Zombies can contact any zombie in their list. No survivor/zombie, zombie/survivor PMing. This is, however, negotiable since I know so many of you love your Life Cultists.

3. Zombie PMs would be in plain english, not Zombese. This is to facilitate in-game organization, not roleplaying.

4. You should have the option of blocking PMs from anyone you want.

This basically reduces the need to organize groups on other forums, and allows even small groups to organize effectively in-game with minimal effort. It makes it possible for even noobs to do what experienced metagamers do all the time. I could see restricting it to only a handful of contacts, maybe 5 or 10, to try to encourage microgroup organization and discourage large hordes, but the goal is basically to focus the metagaming community's activity on UD itself rather than on a bunch of other boards. It facilitates zombie communication in-game in a way that encourages ferals to participate with other players while not forcing them into large hordes, and it immediately allows noobs and baby zombahs to create effective groups through their UD interface rather than having to join a group and check in at Invision or Barhah.com regularly.

Fire away.

Discussion (Nerf Mobiles)

First thing to start you off - perhaps should only work for mutual contacts so people you don't know can't spam you. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 05:36, 24 July 2009 (BST)

Yeah, that's not a bad idea, though I did mention that you should be able to block PMs from anyone.--Necrofeelinya 06:09, 24 July 2009 (BST)

Extremely abusable. Someone could log in via a proxy, send 160 messages, then use their standard IP and play the game. It should cost AP. While that doesn't solve the problem, it limits it somewhat. - User:Whitehouse 11:52, 24 July 2009 (BST)

Abusable. Right. Abusable because someone could go out of their way to use a proxy so they could send over 160 messages... as opposed to using a separate forum for unlimited messaging. Why should it cost AP? It doesn't cost AP to use a separate forum. If anything, this discourages "abuse" that's already happening.--Necrofeelinya 18:28, 24 July 2009 (BST)

It would give access to pretty much any character in game as it is written now, thus it can be a far more useful tool than a forum where it is required for the other person to be on said forum and actively checking for information, that's why I think it should be limited by AP (and all other forms of in game communication cost AP so why shouldn't this?). Also, would you mind clarifying what you meant by ""abuse" that's already happening"? - User:Whitehouse 19:43, 24 July 2009 (BST)

Your response said abusable in a manner that implied that extensive communications without costing AP was an abuse. But with forums, that's happening right now, with no limit on # of characters, no limit on # of messages, no limits of any kind. In fact, with restricted forums people can arrange to PM one another, give each other info for a service like AIM, then IM one another and coordinate in unrestricted fashion while they play the game, which is no different than what this would allow, though this puts at least some limitations on it. The main thing is that it would take such behavior out of the exclusive domain of experienced metagamers and put it in the hands of all players, noobs and ferals included. So if there's a potential for abuse, it's nowhere near as big as the potential we deal with now, and this is essentially a measure to level the playing field for all characters.--Necrofeelinya 02:14, 25 July 2009 (BST)

Actually, if you listened to his response, this lets you contact ANYONE, at any time. Name one forum in which you can contact any other urbandead character that you want.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:30, 25 July 2009 (BST)

Okay, but in forums you can contact people who aren't in your contacts list at all. This limits it to people in your contacts, which is limited to what... 100 people? You still need to have made the effort to add them to your list, and you still are restricted by the number of people you can add. Forums still have more advantages, though they require more attention, but this would help even play a bit.--Necrofeelinya 12:29, 26 July 2009 (BST)

No, because forums will only have specific people on them. You can't call up anyone at any time. This suggestion, coupled with the name database, gives you any character at any time, whether they want you to or not.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 14:23, 26 July 2009 (BST)

How would zombies text each other? O__O --Rahrah^{Come join the #party!}11:54, 24 July 2009 (BST)

Same as survivors... I envision a PM function added to the standard game interface. Maybe you hit a button and it opens a box on your contacts page, allowing you to choose a contact and send a message. Something like that.--Necrofeelinya 18:28, 24 July 2009 (BST)

Alas. It is already made. You click the wiki button, it takes you to the wiki where not only do you get to just talk, but make groups pages, link them to forums for secret stuff, and all kinds of glorious things.--Agunin_Anoven 23:17, 24 July 2009 (BST)

And just what percentage of players use the Wiki? The point of this is to make something everyone can already do more accessible. Making it involve a bunch of steps just discourages people... it should be part of the player interface in-game.--Necrofeelinya 02:14, 25 July 2009 (BST)

Nerf? Don't you mean buff mobiles? No zombie texting... please. It's just so out of character/genre -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 15:38 24 July 2009 (BST)

No, he means it's a nerf because there's a better system.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 16:46, 24 July 2009 (BST)

Oh, I thought the suggestion was to allow text messages if you've got a mobile phone for no AP. Surely PMs need to be explained, and using the mobile phone is the obvious choice. Just having it so you can magically, perhaps telepathically, contact others is ridiculous... may as well leave it for the meta-game -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:15 26 July 2009 (BST)

Perhaps instantly registering all new characters to an official forum? Although not everyone would use it by any means.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 14:24, 26 July 2009 (BST)

I've always wanted a Nerf-o-mobile. --Midianian 17:31, 24 July 2009 (BST)

I'd be satisfied with a small plot of land in a warm area, with a source of fresh water, a self-sufficient farm, a couple of dairy goats and some chickens, a place to grow fresh peppers, a dark cellar for mushrooms, an olive tree, a lemon tree, perhaps a walnut tree or some other kind of nut, and a chance to watch the sunset each day as I set off improvised homemade explosives and rockets, performed bizarre chemical and medical experiments that create and eerie and unnatural glow when viewed from a distant hillside, perhaps even signaling to alien spacecraft, and burned and buried the bodies of indigents and girl scouts unfortunate enough to cross my path... oh, for the simple life... just like Little House on the Prairie. : )--Necrofeelinya 02:26, 25 July 2009 (BST)

Part of the atmosphere of Urban Dead is the sense of isolation and inability to easily coordinate; alas, that genie is already out of the bottle, and no amount of pushing will get it back in. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:17, 25 July 2009 (BST)

True, but if that's the case, why not accommodate it in a way that makes it easy for all players to participate? If you've got a system with exploits that only some players use, and it gives them an advantage, why not just acknowledge the exploit and help everyone use it?--Necrofeelinya 02:29, 25 July 2009 (BST)

I like the sentiment and mechanics of this, but ultimately I don't think people will go for it. External boards allow all sorts of stuff the game would never do (like pictures) and don't tax the UD server. You do have a good point about the newb problem - we have advantages they don't - but that also applies for all the in-game skills, like faster walking, free running, hitting what you shoot at, etc. That's just how it is, and although I don't necessarily like everything about that, nobody stays a newb forever. Anybody who really cares about blow-by-blow contact and strategic warfare will seek out the channels everyone else uses to communicate. I'm not trying to discourage you - I just think you're facing some pretty tough hurdles. -George Zip ^◆◆◆ 02:39, 25 July 2009 (BST)

I also like the sentiment, and I agree that in-game communication ought to be encouraged and made easier, especially for zombies. However it is a fallacy that newbs don't metagame. Noobs don't consider strategy and they won't regardless of how easy it is for them. That's what makes them noobs.--_GANG Giles Sednik_CAPD 07:00, 26 July 2009 (BST)

True. Eventually, though, most either level up or idle out. And the rest? Well, it's a free postapocalyptic world. -George Zip ^◆◆◆ 03:56, 28 July 2009 (BST)

Wait, I don't see why "only some people" can use outside resources to augment playing the game. You mean to tell me if I meet some people in the game with whom I would like to organize that I can't get in touch with them out of game unless I'm a certain level in game or what?--Pesatyel 20:28, 26 July 2009 (BST)

Right, being lazy isn't a handicap that we need to design the game to accommodate; If someone doesn't want to make an effort they they shouldn't be surprised when they don't get a result. That said, newb ignorance probably constitutes a significant potion of non-metagaming UDers, especially for people who are new to this kind of thing. It seems like the answer would be to spread he word about IRC rooms in game, not to flood the server and/or reduce character playability. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 20:39, 26 July 2009 (BST)

I have no idea why nobody else has been commenting, but I personally am way down for this. UD definitely needs better in-game communication. I've used boards and forums to metagame before but I've always thought that ideally you'd be able to do all that communication in-game. Even this suggestion wouldn't make that happen, but it would allow the more casual members to organize effectively without all that mucking about with forums.

But I would much rather see the number of PM's per day limited rather than the number of available contacts to PM, though (maybe 20 or so per character per day?). This would cut down on the inherent spam problem, as well as limit the greatest possible number of people you could PM at a time, while not restricting the number of possible people you could contact.

I see how zombie<->survivor communication can be used both productively and for harassment. So what I would suggest is that there should be (gasp!) a checkbox in the settings menu to toggle PM's from the other side of the life barrier.

Also, an option to PM all contacts of a certain color at once would be good; this would use up as many of the day's PM's and IP hits as there are people of that color in the list, naturally.

Wee, wall of text.--Idly Hummingbird 03:15, 5 August 2009 (BST)

There were loads of comments. Rosslessness accidentally deleted them instead of this whole suggestion, which should've gone isntead. Since you've reanimated this discussion (not really, but kind of), I guess it stays for now or something? If Ross drops by, feel free to revert this, but take the suggestion with it.--Yonnua Koponen^{Talk ! Contribs} 17:57, 6 August 2009 (BST)

Yep screwed the pooch on that one. But hey fresh feedback, so we'll let it stay. Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 19:42, 6 August 2009 (BST)

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NOW! I know this is already in the peer rejection page, but just give this idea a chance for discussion one more time.

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Chainsaw

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Lab Experience Improvement?

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Art as weapons

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