Suggestion:20070820 No Free Running into Ruined Buildings

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20070820 No Free Running into Ruined Buildings

SIM Core Map.png Swiers 15:12, 20 August 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type
adjustment

Suggestion scope
ruined buildings

Suggestion description
background - I realize this is a bit soon on the heels of the August 14 introduction of Ruin, but it at least seems clear now what Ruin does- which is to say, very little. This suggestion adds a slight tweak to make Ruin more flavorful without changing game balance. There are very few good reasons for a survivor to want to enter a ruined building, and no reason they need to travel to the insides of many of them in a row. By requiring survivors to actually use the "enter building" button to go inside a ruined building, it makes it more likely they will only enter those which they plan to repair or which they need access to as entry points.

effect - If a survivor has the Free Running skill, it would not function when they click on a ruined building block. Instead, they would end up OUTSIDE the building, just as if they did not have the skill.

anylisis - Makes it harder for survivors to "scout" the interiors of multiple ruined buildings, which makes them more like actual "zombie territory". You can still free run from a ruins into a non-ruined building; even if (say) a EHB Mall was entirely surrounded by ruins, you would still be be able to get into (and out of) they mall without any difficulty. As such, this does not make normal movement any harder, or put non-ruined buildings in any danger. Going outside is often the fastest way to get from point A to point B anyhow, so its a good way to cross areas of ruins; you can just enter the last ruin you see and free-run from there.


Voting Section

Voting Rules
Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped.
# justification ~~~~

Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.


Keep Votes

  1. Keep - Good. It isn't a massive nerf because you can SEE if a building is ruined, and you can free run out of ruined buildings. It would be better if there was a chance to make it, and a chance to fail. BoboTalkClown 22:05, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  2. Keep - This seems fair. And, at the risk of being laughed at by a certain moderator, I'll add that this helps redress the current benefit survivors get from Ruin. -- Pavluk 15:19, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  3. Keep - Ruining doesnt really do much at all..this helps it alittle..and it makes sense that a ruined building would be Very Difficult to travel through. --Brainz 15:21, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  4. Keep Sounds good. --DonTickles 15:59, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  5. Author's vote. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 16:03, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  6. Keep - weird, but not bad --~~~~T''' 16:18, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  7. Keep - Although I favor no free running out of ruined buildings, in part for what you said this doesn't do to EHB malls. But either way, be nice for a tactical advantage to doing it.--Insomniac By Choice 17:46, 20 August 2007 (BST)
    To be clear- this suggestion does allow free running OUT of ruined buildings. To not do so would mean that you could close off all entry points to a Mall, etc, by surrounding it with Ruins. I'm not changing that - Ruined buildings would still be very handy entry points under this suggestion, although it might cost an extra (1, one, une, uno) AP to use them as such. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 19:16, 20 August 2007 (BST)
    I know what it is, I was just telling you what I'd like.--Insomniac By Choice 21:38, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  8. As said, it costs only two extra AP to free-run. One AP to jump out of the first building into the outside of the Ruined building, one AP to enter into the Ruined Building...and 1 Ap to do the free-running. It's not unbalancing, but it is a nerf...--ShadowScope 18:49, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  9. I think either this or my idea, but to be honest this actually makes ruining a building worthwhile. Jonny12 talk 19:06, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  10. Fuck yes - All my survivors would love this (I dont actually play zombies at the moment). It adds greater depth to the game, adds greatly to the atmosphere (OH SHIT! They are boxing us in!), makes it very important to fix ruined buildings as often as possible and makes absolutely devestated areas of the city difficult to travel through. Shit, this is just plain cool from atmosphere for humans. You really get that fear of a city ruined by zombies feel. So what if zombies can use this tactically? it makes ruin fucking cool. Oh, and if you are whining about how "difficult" it is to survive as a human, i put my money where my mouth was a few days ago and wrote this guide to teach you how to keep your arse out of the stewpot. I should inform everyone that i have been wandering through the obliterated parts of the city for four weeks now using the stuff i put in there, and have yet to die as a result. Ive been clawed a few times, but i got away. This would finally add a sense of danger and atmosphere to the game that has been sorely missing since the days of The Many, and doesnt fuck up human survivability at all, at least if you play your human smart. If you play stupid, well, you had it coming. --The Grimch Mod-U! 19:17, 20 August 2007 (BST)
    Again, to be clear- no, this can not be used to "box in" survivors. It has zero effect on which buildings can be entered, and zero effect on normal travel. If you have a dozen or so AP saved up, you could skip merrily across Ridleybank with no serious concerns- you'd just do it without going inside any buildings. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 19:22, 20 August 2007 (BST)
    I meant in an atmospheric feree running sense. Nothing can stop them actually escaping, but there will be a feeling of doom as the ring closes around you. That feeling of doom has been lacking since the end of the many. --The Grimch Mod-U! 20:17, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  11. Keep - Sounds fair to me. Although just one AP seems a little useless. I'd really like to see ruin really DO something, but that's a suggestion for another time. --Druuuuu 19:24, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  12. Keep - I had an explanation, but I've been stopped by editing conflicts three times now. -- Murray Jay Suskind 19:26, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  13. Keep Excellent idea, though some in-game justification might be of advantage, e.g. "You cannot find a safe spot in the ruined building to land on" for attempts to run into ruined buildings. I'd suggest that this also does not just dump you "outside" the ruined building, but that you need to go there manually. Charon Xeno 19:30, 20 August 2007 (BST)
    Go there manually how? Currently free running always puts you inside a neighboring building you click on, even if you'd in fact rather "land" outside. There is no option to "go there manually". This suggestion just makes it so that if the building is ruined, you do land outside, which has (I think) the exact effect you are suggesting. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 20:03, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  14. Keep Makes a lot of sense flavour-wise, and makes ruined buildings make more sense. Also allows zeds to change their tactics, i.e. isolating buildings through ruining, it'd be an interesting addition. --IyandaCloud 20:23, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  15. Keep Well, this makes traveling using free running lanes more difficult. But I think that to make this really interesting. Make it you can't free run into or out of ruined builings at all. That would really provide an incentive to fix them up. Coco1993 20:13, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  16. Hell Yeah Ruin needs to be more powerful - its just a ransack that requires an item to fix.--Wooty 20:30, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  17. Keep Makes spending 6 ap to ruin a building worthwhile. So like HELL YA!! -- FriedFish.ca 20:37, 20 Auguest 2007 (BST)
  18. Keep - Right, crumbly building, hard to get a footing. Hope this doesn't get implemented. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 21:58, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  19. Keep - Yarrrg.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 22:03, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  20. Keep - Pardus 22:39, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  21. Keep - Yup. Good plan.--Seventythree 00:06, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  22. Keep/Change- Adding a warning message similar to jump from building would prevent being trapped outside by mistake. Besides that 100% agree Sockem 00:35, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  23. Keep - I originally mistakenly took a bug that did exactly this. I want to see this implemented! --Ducis DuxSlothTalk 02:02, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  24. Keep - What more could I add? --Obsidian 02:30, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  25. Keep - Wow, lots of people don't seem to understand this, both in the keeps and the kills. I, however, understand and like it. As it stands, a Ruin is basically a Ransack that is visible from up to a block away. With this idea, Zombies could figure out where the biggest free-run bottlenecks are, ruin them, then lurk (both inside and out) to try to catch the runners coming through. Quickly clicking through these "danger spots" to avoid the jagged, rotten teeth of the undead would add a little real-time tension (and fun) to the game. --Steakfish 02:57, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  26. I was tempted to comment about it just costing more AP, but the discussion on the discussion page disuaded me.--Pesatyel 03:07, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  27. Lovely - Makes perfect sense to me.Chill 05:41, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  28. Keep - Seems reasonable to me. --Sonofagun18 05:49, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  29. Jeep - BEEP BEEP. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 06:49, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  30. Heep - Thank you swiers. --Thekooks 12:21, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  31. Hell yeah!' - Realistic. Makes sense to me. --Vortexx 14:05, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  32. Keep - However, I would rather you couldn't use ruined buildings as a entry point for Free Running either, or perhaps only allow it for buildings that are not tall. --Morgan Blair 15:24, 21 August 2007 (BST)
    That would do far more than simply make movement more challenging in areas of ruins- it would make it possible to turn individual buildings (or groups) into "islands" that (if HB or higher) could not be entered. This suggestion is specifically written so that any building on the map which currently can be entered, remains so if the suggestion is implemented. BTW, all NT buildings are tall buildings, so saying "make this uber zombie buff, but only for non-tall buildings" is pretty much the same as saying "give zombies this uber buff for NT buildings". I'm happy with the version I wrote, since I play on BOTH sides of the game. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 16:51, 21 August 2007 (BST)
    Hey, if your last sentence was intended to insinuate that I favor "uber zombie buff" mechanics, because I myself, in fact, favor zombies, then I would have to be offended. While my "primary" character is actually a dedicated survivor, as a player I am indifferent, and favor balance. As to your suggestion, it's plainly obvious that it was written so as not to impede access to un-ruined buildings via Free Running. I was merely stating my opinion that I would prefer that it do so (I think that it would make survival more exciting), and as for tall buildings, I agree with your analysis and hereby retract that portion of my opinion. --Morgan Blair 17:15, 21 August 2007 (BST)
    My intention was just to make it clear that they ACTUAL effect is different from what you said you would favor. People mis-read things very often. It seemed clear to me that they version you gave really would favor zombies far to much for my tastes- even as a zombie player. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 18:17, 21 August 2007 (BST)
    Fair enough. I had to reread our arguments a couple of times, just to be sure what we both meant (particularly the bit about tall buildings). No offense taken. --Morgan Blair 18:24, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  33. Keep - I like. Gets survivors outdoors more, which they don't do enough.--Ravinel 17:42, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  34. Keep Sounds like my "No Free Run in Ransack" suggestion... --Secruss 18:37, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  35. Okaydokay mister! It'd be nice if survivors didn't have a monopoly on any square that had a building in it. Except malls. Because living is dumb. Kalir FTW! Z/S UD Potato Words 20:46, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  36. Keep - I would love to see a warning saying that I has just been braindead enough to click on a ruined building and ended up outside. -- John RubinT! ZG FER 20:58, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  37. Keep - Great idea, hope it gets implemented.--Pestilent Nomad 01:46, 22 August 2007 (BST)
  38. Keep Srekto 02:33, 22 August 2007 (BST)
  39. Keep - --  Savant  Chit-Chat  10:12, 22 August 2007 (BST)
  40. Keep - As above. --Pestilent Bob 18:44, 22 August 2007 (BST)
  41. Keep - Yup. Works for me, since ruined buildings can't be barricaded, there's not really any reason that they need to be free-runned into. Amounts to a minor AP cost to get back in the building and restart free-running, with a little extra thrill from running around outside in Zombie territory -- Grim Rictus 06:13, 23 August 2007 (BST)
  42. Keep - Should have been like this since the beginning. Maybe Kevan was afraid that people would cry it's overpowered, but I play survivors too and I would love this. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRC☺T☺+1 07:37, 23 August 2007 (BST)
  43. Keep Makes good sense to me.      Ekashp wuz here (aht harman bra!nz!)        15:55, 24 August 2007 (BST)
  44. Keep Implemented as of 5 minutes ago, congrats! --Dipcup 16:20, 24 August 2007 (BST)


Kill Votes

  1. Kill yet another one sided prozombie sugestion this time makeing less sense the building is still there holes have been punched in it things have been torn apart but its nothing hat can't be fixed by a guy with a tool box simply put there is enough building left to hop from roof to roof or window to window it just so messed up it imposible to find any thing usable also the guy who made the game allowed a update that allowed the survivors to take back and keep the fort i doubt he would do any thing that would with out giveing some thing to the survivors to undue that zhodani 10:04 AM (PST) 8/20/07
  2. Kill - Nerfs barricade strafing. --  T   18:41, 20 August 2007 (BST)
    Yep, it nerfs the BS by a grand total of 1 (one, uno, une) extra AP per ruined building you want to barricade strafe. Oh, and it has zero impact on BS in areas where Ruined buildings are not the majority. Cry my a river. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 18:56, 20 August 2007 (BST)
    It's also annoying, clicking an extra button for each square you want to move. Like "CANCEL OR ALLOW?" (I know you can just walk outside, but unless you already know that some of the buildings ahead are ransacked, you're not likely to do so.) --  T   19:32, 20 August 2007 (BST)
    Consider this; you move from a baricaded building to a block occupied by a ruined building. From the ruined location, you see that the next block you plan to move to is also ruined. So instead of going inside, you just move to that block. And then you look to see if the block after that one is ruined. If its not, THEN you enter the (ruined) building you are standing outside- and continue on your merry free-run way. Ruin allows you to see BEFORE MOVING what the status of a neighboring block you might want to move into is (which is a pretty big survivor buff, given it offers no effect that ransack does not) so there is no need to "click an extra button" every time you move- just use what you can already see to plan ahead. And you wanna talk about annoying? How about clicking a button 5 (five, cinque, ciquo) times to get essentially NO effect beyond what a ransack already offers. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 20:10, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  3. Kill - #Straight up survivor nerf, and doesn't make a lot of sense to me. A ruined building can still have a roof to jump from, or windows to jump into - it isn't one big pile of burning rubble. If there are more reasons that I can think of, I'll put it on the discussion page, however, I just don't like this. --Ryiis 18:47, 20 August 2007 (BST)Vote removed by original voter - original voter now chooses to abstain from the vote --Ryiis 19:28, 20 August 2007 (BST)
    In just what significant manner does this nerf survivors? Why would you WANT to free run through a series of ruined buildings, hmm? What's so bad about going outside instead? edit- see talk page for further discussion. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 18:56, 20 August 2007 (BST)
  4. Kill - I don't like it. Carrying a toolbox to repair ruined buildings is already a bit of a pain. It also does not quite make sense to me why you can not free run into ruined buildings (but somehow can free run out of them). It seems to me it would be easy to get into a building that is full of holes. --Pdeq 23:30, 20 August 2007 (BST)
    The ruin description says nothing about holes in the building; it says the interior is in complete ruin. The action reports when you ruin a building support this. So there are no extra holes in the wall to make it easier to get into.
    So, what kind of damge is there? The kind that a toolbox is needed to fix. I image that pipes are leaking, so the floor is wet and slick. Lamps dangle by wires and threaten to fall on you. Interior doors are partly off the hinges and won't swing open easily. Broken glass, splintered wood, and perhaps various body fluids cover floors and other surfaces. Oh, and there's a really good chance the zombie who did this might still be around. Maybe you'd take a little extra time entering such a place, no?
    But leaving- yeah, that would still be pretty easy. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 02:29, 21 August 2007 (BST)
    You may imagine there are pipes leaking, but I imagine damaged walls (ie. holes). Just because you might want to take extra time avoiding body fluids and such doesn't mean that a free runner has to do so. If you have more to say on this, do so on the talk page (and please let me know on my talk page so I actually read what you wrote. --Pdeq 05:22, 22 August 2007 (BST)
  5. Kill Yeah, let's give the zombies more advantages! YAAAAAAAYYYY! Glenstone 10:47, 21 August 2007 (BST)
    Sarcasm. Wit. Lowest. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 16:43, 21 August 2007 (BST)
  6. Kill - The only remote advantage of ruined buildings to survivors amongst the massive zombie advantages are that it shows where an entry point is. What is the point of that if you can't use it? --MarieThe Grove on Tour 11:14, 22 August 2007 (BST)
    You CAN still use them as entry points. I went to some pains to point this out (and the reason I'd want it to stay that way) in reply to keep votes that indicated a desire that it might be otherwise. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 11:40, 22 August 2007 (BST)
  7. Kill Ruining a building does a lot. It forces survivors to spend AP locating a toolbox and use nearly 20% of their inventory to keep one on hand. Furthermore, I just can't imagine a building so damaged that you couldn't find a way inside, that was still able to be repaired with one AP by a guy with a hammer and a few wrenches. --Lo Meng 07:06, 23 August 2007 (BST)
  8. Kill - I don't think making a huge mess of a place would prevent something like freerunning - not RL-plausible. --Pgunn 18:50, 23 August 2007 (BST)


Spam/Dupe Votes

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