Suggestion:20080216 Zombie Window Attack, and Window Barricading

	Revised
	This suggestion has been withdrawn for revision, the new version is in the works.

20080216 Zombie Window Attack, and Window Barricading

LumiReaver 13:33, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion type
New zombie attack option, barricade mechanic change

Suggestion scope
Attacking zombies, and top of the stack survivors/zombies

Suggestion description

Window Barricades: Windows are barricaded separately from the main building.

• Window Status:
  • Open: Zombies can stick their grimy mits in and attack you.
  • Shut: Works like a door, you need memories of life to open it.
  • Loosely: Level one.
  • Lightly : Levels two, three, and four.
  • Quite Strongly: Levels five, and six. (And possibly higher.)
• Theaters, and Towers don't have windows.

Zombie Attacks: Zombies outside a building can claw attack, and feeding drag through windows unless they are shut, or barricaded. Attack percentages are lowered. Zombies attacking through windows do not see inside, and they can only attack the survivor/zombie on the top of the stack. Zombies are only attacked by window zombies if there are no survivors in the building.

• Zombies cannot preform bite attacks through the window.
• To attack through a window a zombie needs only to select "through window" under the attack targets drop down.
• Zombies have a 5% chance of taking 1 point of damage because of broken window glass.
• Attacking through a window costs double AP, and has an invisible accuracy penalty.
  • 1 survivor/s in building: 30% penalty
  • 2 survivor/s in building: 25% penalty
  • 3 survivor/s in building: 20% penalty
  • 4 survivor/s in building: 15% penalty
  • 5 survivor/s in building: 10% penalty
  • 6+ survivor/s in building: 5% penalty
• A survivor can be automatically dragged through a window if the following conditions are met:
  • The survivor being attacked has less than 12 HP.
  • The attacking zombie has the feeding drag skill.
  • No survivor (Other than the victim) in the building has preformed an action in the past twelve hours.
    1. (Rationale: If a survivor has moved recently they would help you before the zombie pulls you out.)

Things To Note:

• Because of the way the accuracy penalty works, it's safer to hide alone.
• In a siege, clawing through the windows isn't as effective as clawing through the door-- Survivors inside will be able to revive their comrades, and no zombies will be able to ransack/ruin the building to impede survivor progress.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep- I know everyone disagrees with me but I really like this. It's balanced, or at least only really a buff to ferals who need buffing.-Studoku 15:37, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
2. Keep- A needed buff for us underpowered zombies. -- BKM 20:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
3. Keep - On the right track. Needs work though. --Heretic144 20:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
4. Keep - Needs more work, but a good idea.--Jamie Cantwell3 21:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
5. Keep Good. --Darth Lumis^{T! A! E! SR} 22:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - I don't like the idea. --Pdeq^Talk* 13:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
2. Move to discussion - Not spam, but you definitely need to work out the kinks before this will pass. This is a very interesting idea. --Uncle Bill 18:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
3. Kill as Bill, this deffinately isn't spam. But, still, if Zombies can attack through windows, why the hell can't I stick my shotgun through it and blow a zombie away? Sense, where art thou?~A`Blue`Jelly^TME*V*I*L*_? 19:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
4. Kill no different than survivors shooting outside of buildings, and zombies do not need a buff. However, I stand by my belief that spam/dupe votes are for jerks--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 21:06, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
5. Kill - I prefer the current simpler model of entry points/barricading. --Pgunn 22:19, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
6. Kill - The current system does not need to be modified. There should be now way a zombie can bypass the main barricades.--Dr Doom86 23:46, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
7. Kill - It is an interesting idea, however I think there should be a percentage/damage penalty from attacking through the window, and not as many barricade levels. --Z. slay3r •  Talk  01:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
8. Change - So zombies can attack like this if cades are lightly or less. Oh, and if you agree with this cut AP back to 1. --BoboTalkClown 01:29, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
9. Kill - Not just no, but hell no.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  02:18, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
10. Take to Discussion - Interesting concept, but could use some further discussion with the rest of the community. --Private Mark 02:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
11. Kill/Change - I like the fundamental idea, just has a little problem or two that can be ironed out and revised. --Howard Bentley 17:52, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
12. Kill - It's just overcomplicates things. Instead of 1 barricade, you now have 2. No real change to the game anyhow, just a needles addition, really, a wasteful one.--Kolechovski 22:53, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. spam attacking people while not in the same area. – Nubis 13:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

   Re - Attacking people through the window from the same area. If you've ever seen a zombie movie, you'll also know it's genre appropriate. And at double the AP cost, with an accuracy penalty, it's not like you'll ever get more than a scratch. Add to that the fact that the windows can be barricaded. (Trying to say it's not overpowered before someone votes spam for that reason...) --LumiReaver 14:00, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

   inside a building and outside a building are not the same area. – Nubis 15:06, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

2. Kevan says no <- doc crook 14:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

   Re - Honestly, for a second, I thought it was over. I was ready to pull the suggestion, and everything. But if you read what you linked me to, you'd have noticed something. A few things, actually. Firstly, this doesn't negate barricades. Not in the least. In fact, it works well with them. It absolutely isn't giving anyone a free lunch. Not with those accuracy, and AP penalties in place. Further, this is also the polar opposite of Kevan's last point, sniping from the inside. Kevan states "Another form of this is the frequently suggested mechanic of shooting through windows, sniping, or otherwise being able to attack outside from inside. This is usually met with a great deal of hostility since it changes the fundamental mechanics of fight and flight, and eliminates most incentive for survivors to move. This is nearly impossible to balance and should not be suggested in most cases." this suggestion proposes that zombies become able to attack inside from outside. The kind of attack you may have witnessed in zombie movies, where a horde has massed around a building, and legions of the undead claw through the windows in a vicious attempt to grab some eats. --LumiReaver 14:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

3. Spamlicious Maximus - So, a zombie can claw me through a window - even if I'm hiding in a toilet cubicle on the 13th floor? And, even assuming I am standing near a window on the ground floor, the zombie can claw at me, but I can't shoot at it, or see it? Plus, you seem to be assuming that the current barricade mechanics don't include windows, which I assume they do. Oh, and it's partial X-Ray Vision - otherwise how would you know there was anyone to attack? --Funt Solo ^QT 14:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

   Re - Interesting points. I agree that it's a bit illogical, and unrealistic for a zombie to claw through a window and hit you. It's also illogical and unrealistic for zombies to exist in the first place for mall gun stores to yield unending supplies of ammunition, and for seventy people to fit in an NT buildings lobby. (Not on the 13th floor toilet cubicle, see the game actually says you're standing in the lobby...) ...Anyway, yes, it's illogical, but it's also a game play mechanic. As for the current barricade mechanic, it might include windows, it might not. That doesn't matter. If this were to be implemented, obviously they'd be considered separately from then on. I don't really have solid arguments for your first two points, I guess, but X-Ray vision? I may not have specified this, (which is my fault, I'm sorry if I was unclear) but a zombie can attack through the windows with no target until he's out of AP. He won't be informed that there is no one inside. No X-Ray Vision at all. --LumiReaver 14:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

   If the zombie doesn't know there's anyone to attack, it's a potential waste of all their AP. So, this is just a siege tactic, where their AP would be better spent taking down the cades and getting inside. So, it's pointless. --Funt Solo ^QT 14:46, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

   Discussion moved to discussion page. --Funt Solo ^QT 15:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

4. Spam - Pointless, just winds up wasting everyones AP. Oh and this that Doc Crook linked, not written by Kevan, it's written by wiki users, and in that case it's pretty obviously written by a survivor who is trying to put his own personal views into the article, that much is shown pretty blatantly in the additional commentary the author added on the First Siege of Caiger Mall.--Karek^maps?! 14:37, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

   Re - Everything wastes everyone's AP, and this is not pointless. There are XP rewards associated with taking down 'cades, and dealing damage. If this were implemented, it would allow lower leveled zombies to attack window barricades, and through them for XP. It helps ferals. --LumiReaver 14:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

   Re - Not really, the accuracy penalties are a bit absurd, especially for any zombie that's not maxed in accuracy skills. And even when you are there's a possibility of you attacking at 20% to hit with a maximum of 45%, 55% with Tangling Grasp, which is low enough that you'll lose your grip pretty much every third hit. Oh and the double AP, that right there means that this is completely useless to both Ferals and low level zombies.--Karek^maps?! 15:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

   Discussion moved to discussion page. --Funt Solo ^QT 19:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

5. Spam - As Funt.--Trav 14:40, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
6. Spam - As everyone else. --Themanwhocares4 15:04, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
7. Spam - no mercy should come upon this suggestion. fantastic level of spam --~~~~ [talk] 15:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
8. Spam - More spam than you can eat is here. --FXI 16:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
9. Spam - As Funt. --Hhal 18:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
10. ABove. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:07, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
11. Spam - Heck no. No ignoring barricades in this manner. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 23:04, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
12. Spam - One barricade system and no more. - Terra 02:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
13. Spam - Unbelievable and overpowered. In flavour terms: MOVE AWAY FROM THE FUCKING GROUND-FLOOR WINDOW! --Anotherpongo 15:01, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

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