UDWiki:Featured Articles/Good Articles: Difference between revisions

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#Extremely weak yes. Get real humour. --{{User:Haliman111/sig}} 02:09, 11 May 2009 (BST)
#Extremely weak yes. Get real humour. --{{User:Haliman111/sig}} 02:09, 11 May 2009 (BST)
:Actually, I loled at [[the Ha Monument]]. --{{User:Haliman111/sig}} 02:39, 11 May 2009 (BST)
:Actually, I loled at [[the Ha Monument]]. --{{User:Haliman111/sig}} 02:39, 11 May 2009 (BST)
#Why not? I mean, seriously if it isn't your cup of tea then fine, but the fact is, a lot of work has obviously gone into it and it is well set out and a bit of a laugh for those who do think that way. Judging by the page views and contributors it obviously generates a bit of interest. It is a "good" article, because most of the articles here are waaaaay worse anyway.--{{User:Disco Inferno/signature}} 08:23, 14 May 2009 (BST)


====No====
====No====

Revision as of 07:23, 14 May 2009

Good Article Voting
Here, we determine which articles are deemed to be "Good" Articles. These are seen as some of the best the wiki has to offer and can include virtually any page on the wiki.

Articles which have been given good article status, become eligible to become Featured Articles with a new Good Article being voted to receive that honour every week.

Criteria

  • NPOV - The article must be from a neutral point of view and not show significant bias. Possible exceptions may be made, depending on the article and community opinion.
  • Complete - It neglects no major facts or details and places the subject in context.
  • Well Written - The article uses good English, such as proper grammar and spelling and is written in a clear and highly readable style.
  • Generally Awesome - Here at the wiki, we're after stuff that's awesome.

Any main namespace article (also including user pages and journal pages if they are thought to fulfil the above criteria) can be nominated for good article status. The nomination will be discussed and if there are no major issues raised at the end of 7 days, the article is promoted to Good status and will be added to the Featured Article Pool for the coming week.

Articles that are deemed "good" will be placed in the Good Article Category for easy findage.

Example

Good Article candidate

Good Article candidate has recently undergone a lot of improvement from various editors. It's NPOV, it's concise and informative. I also believe it to be generally awesome, just take a look at the talk page discussion, people love it! --GA Suggester 20:29, 3 April 2009 (BST)

Yes

  1. Yes - I see only a few minor issues, but those seem to be fixed readily. Otherwise it's good. --OptimistBob 20:29, 3 April 2009 (BST)
  2. Love it! --Few Words Joe 20:29, 3 April 2009 (BST)
  3. Yes - Maintains good article balance, strong intro, accurate information, good grammar and spelling. Well wikified. --Overly Technical Jim 20:29, 3 April 2009 (BST)
  4. Yes - Much better than all the other candidates. --BetterMuch Ralph 20:29, 3 April 2009 (BST)
  5. Yes - I like this part here. --Specific Jen 20:29, 3 April 2009 (BST)

Please add {{GoodArticleNom}} to any page that has been nominated.

New Nominations

Place new Nominations under this header.

Dunell Hills Police Department

One of the BIG groups, I would Suggest RRF but... eh.

Yes

  1. Nice layout, informative, and overall a well designed group page. Also has this:

Penguin12.gif

which is awesome...For the general subject, I think group pages should be nominated here, some of them are real good, but demanding NPOV from a group page obviously doesn't work. --Thadeous Oakley 11:20, 11 May 2009 (BST)

No

  1. NPOV, please. --Haliman - Talk 02:07, 11 May 2009 (BST)
  2. GOOONG!! --WanYao 03:38, 11 May 2009 (BST)
  3. This isn't a featured groups section, it's about articles. Sure, DHPD may be an awesome group, but the page isn't all that notable. Linkthewindow  Talk  08:15, 11 May 2009 (BST)
    That said, I'm not against groups being featured, although that does open up problems with meatpuppets. Linkthewindow  Talk  08:20, 11 May 2009 (BST)
  4. No. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:54, 11 May 2009 (BST)
  5. Naw. --Pestolence(talk) 12:26, 11 May 2009 (BST)
  6. Nope. For the same reason I wouldn't want a user page featured. --Giles Sednik CAPDSWA 15:30, 13 May 2009 (BST)

Amusing Locations in Malton

It's fucking awesome.

Yes

  1. Perhaps the best page on this fair wiki of ours.--xoxo 04:52, 10 May 2009 (BST)
  2. After a lot of deliberation, I have to say yes.--Nallan (Talk) 04:54, 10 May 2009 (BST)
  3. Best page EVARRRR. --Blackboard 01:55, 11 May 2009 (BST)
  4. Extremely weak yes. Get real humour. --Haliman - Talk 02:09, 11 May 2009 (BST)
Actually, I loled at the Ha Monument. --Haliman - Talk 02:39, 11 May 2009 (BST)
  1. Why not? I mean, seriously if it isn't your cup of tea then fine, but the fact is, a lot of work has obviously gone into it and it is well set out and a bit of a laugh for those who do think that way. Judging by the page views and contributors it obviously generates a bit of interest. It is a "good" article, because most of the articles here are waaaaay worse anyway.--DiscoInferno 08:23, 14 May 2009 (BST)

No

  1. Too much potty talk, not enough real humour. --WanYao 10:30, 10 May 2009 (BST)
  2. Some of it's funny, but as Wan "lol cawks!!!" isn't really humor. Linkthewindow  Talk  11:08, 10 May 2009 (BST)
    What does that even mean? And what's that got to do with ALiM?--xoxo 09:27, 11 May 2009 (BST)
    What do cocks have to do with ALiM? Who would know... DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 12:59, 11 May 2009 (BST)
    Ohhhh right. Lol i didn't realise cawks = cocks. And me and Nick even had a phone call about it. The closest i could get was that he meant lolcakes, which still didn't make a lot of sense...--xoxo 05:38, 12 May 2009 (BST)
    Wow. And you thought Nick was lame for calling you up about the coup last year. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 07:16, 12 May 2009 (BST)
    O.o Linkthewindow  Talk  22:10, 13 May 2009 (BST)
    Well i'm sorry i'm so sophisticated i don't find 'umour in misspelling...*upturns nose slightly* --xoxo 07:57, 14 May 2009 (BST)
    Fixed my indenting ;). Linkthewindow  Talk  08:11, 14 May 2009 (BST)
  3. As Link. --Pestolence(talk) 16:36, 10 May 2009 (BST)

Battle of Blackmore

Normally I don't like POV stuff, but I really liked this. Pure class. It's already gotten through Category:Historical Events voting which already says something about its quality and significance.

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. Yes please. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:42, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  2. It's awesome. Utterly POV, but it's so far gone that it doesn't actually matter anymore. Once it's obvious, it's almost neutral; because the reader adjusts it in their mind. Plus the fact that it's hilarious.--Ryvyoli Y R 22:41, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  3. I echo the above sentiments. Its not NPOV, but then it doesn't even try to be. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 22:50, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  4. It's very funny. Linkthewindow  Talk  23:22, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  5. Hilarious. --Pestolence(talk) 20:47, 10 May 2009 (BST)
  6. Strong yes. --Haliman - Talk 02:10, 11 May 2009 (BST)
  7. Wow yes. The pictures alone are priceless. --Giles Sednik CAPDSWA 15:34, 13 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons


TUMBLEWEED-aikido-river'n-stuff Tactics

This nomination would speak for itself if only it weren't so busy scrambling around like a chicken with its head cut off.

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. Hell, yeah. --WanYao 15:36, 9 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  1. Nahhhh.--xoxo 04:54, 10 May 2009 (BST)
  2. Nope. --Haliman - Talk 02:38, 11 May 2009 (BST)

River Tactics

This nomination should speak for itself.

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. Well, yeah. --WanYao 15:34, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  2. I remember reading it when I was a little boy. Beautiful stuff. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:36, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  3. Quotes are awesome. --Pestolence(talk) 16:15, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  4. Very well written. And a good tactic.--Ryvyoli Y R 22:44, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  5. As DDS.--xoxo 04:55, 10 May 2009 (BST)
  6. As J3D.--Thadeous Oakley 11:11, 11 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

Guides:First Day in Malton

Very well written guide and covers pretty much everything you need to know about the game. -- Cheese 16:27, 8 May 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. As per above. -- Cheese 16:27, 8 May 2009 (BST)
  2. Balanced. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 17:52, 10 May 2009 (BST)
  3. As above. --Haliman - Talk 02:11, 11 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

The Pluto Press

It speaks for itself. To bad sonny stopped updating it.--/~Rakuen~\Talk Domo.gif I Still Love Grim 03:12, 6 May 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. Lawl--/~Rakuen~\Talk Domo.gif I Still Love Grim 03:12, 6 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  1. Because Pluto isn't a planet. (actually, I'm not a big fan of the format.) --Pestolence(talk) 03:22, 6 May 2009 (BST)
  2. Because Pluto is a dog. --WanYao 15:28, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  3. Because Pluto sucks. --Haliman - Talk 02:35, 11 May 2009 (BST)
  4. Because Sonny stopped updating it.--xoxo 05:03, 11 May 2009 (BST)

Ridleybank/History

Created by the RRF, this is an awesome page, with great original content and informative as well. --Pestolence(talk) 22:42, 4 May 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. My nomination, my vote. --Pestolence(talk) 22:42, 4 May 2009 (BST)
  2. Yarp. I like it. -- Cheese 16:27, 8 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  1. I like the content and it is well written but it's just a bit to bland in my opinion. If some links were thrown in where suburbs and locations were mentioned, it would definitely help its readability. Plus a picture, if one were so inclined. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:06, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  2. It's dry and uninspiring. --WanYao 15:29, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  3. As Wan. Needs moar pics. --Haliman - Talk 03:45, 11 May 2009 (BST)


Recent Nominations

Nomination discussion that have concluded in the past 7 days should be placed here. For older nominations, see the Archive.

The Fall of Monroeville Mall

Because in all honesty its probably the best article about Monroeville that exists. Because the event in question (Easy zombie win) was part of the reasoning behind the permaheadshot rule change.--RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 12:56, 3 May 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. This is my vote. Touch it. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 12:56, 3 May 2009 (BST)
  2. Scary. I was just about to nominate this. Linkthewindow  Talk  12:58, 3 May 2009 (BST)
  3. If one Monroeville page deserves this status, it is this. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:55, 9 May 2009 (BST)
  4. As above. --Haliman - Talk 02:12, 11 May 2009 (BST)
  5. Me likey. - Cheese 15:27, 11 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  • Successful - Article is really well written and deserves to get Good Article status. -- Cheese 15:27, 11 May 2009 (BST)

User:A Helpful Little Gnome

It's plain awesomeness and the fact that he's got very damn close to an exact replica of a UD screen. -- Cheese 14:48, 2 May 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. As per above. -- Cheese 14:48, 2 May 2009 (BST)
  2. As Cheese. Linkthewindow  Talk  14:56, 2 May 2009 (BST)
  3. As above. --Haliman - Talk 16:26, 2 May 2009 (BST)
  4. That is awesome. As per above. --Cpl Adrian Shephard 17:55, 2 May 2009 (BST)
  5. That was REALLY awesome. -- Lorddragonfang  Talk 21:24, 2 May 2009 (BST)
  6. As per Haliman. —Speels ♪ Hard Knock Life SpeelsLogo.png 04:16, 3 May 2009 (BST)
  7. As per above. --D.E.ATalk 13:11, 3 May 2009 (BST)
  8. Its a brilliant piece of work. Cwissball PKer / Dual Nature 23:13, 3 May 2009 (BST)
  9. If it weren't so awesome, I would never vote for a page like this. But incredible. Truly incredible.--The Shoemaker Talk Red FactionDinosaur.gif 01:40, 4 May 2009 (BST)
  10. Apparently we are looking for awesome, that page is awesome, thus it is what we are looking for. Or something like that anyway. - User:Whitehouse 00:10, 9 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  1. It's a great page, but I don't think user pages should be featured articles. --Pestolence(talk) 16:14, 2 May 2009 (BST)
  2. Given that user pages can be changed to be totally different on the whim of the owner, I don't think it's wise to allow them in. If it was a user sub page dedicated to his game, I'd vote yeah, for sure -- boxy talk • teh rulz 08:13 4 May 2009 (BST)
  3. I'm with Pestolence. --Giles Sednik CAPDSWA 20:13, 4 May 2009 (BST)
  4. I <333 this page. But, I have to agree with Boxy. --WanYao 01:43, 10 May 2009 (BST)
  5. As the other naysayers.--xoxo 04:53, 10 May 2009 (BST)
  • Unsuccessful - While the page is unanimously agreed to be awesome, the fact that it is Gnome main user page and liable to change is an issue that should be corrected first. -- Cheese 15:24, 11 May 2009 (BST)

New user template

This page provides helpful information for new users that can allow them to easily customize their own user page. All of the info they need it right in front of them, in a copy-pastable format. All they need to do is decide where to put it and fill in the gaps. --The Shoemaker Talk Red FactionDinosaur.gif 01:47, 1 May 2009 (BST)

Yes

I support the page because I believe it could really help all of the new users that come in all day every day. With customized pages, they can feel free to then get active within the wiki without worrying about their page all the time. Besides, I don't really see, to no one's offense, any pages that actually try to help people on the nominee list right now anyways. --The Shoemaker Talk Red FactionDinosaur.gif 01:50, 1 May 2009 (BST)

No

  1. I don't support teaching newbies with HTML. This is a wiki. It also has no formatting, hence why it is difficult to read. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:20, 1 May 2009 (BST)
  2. -- boxy talk • teh rulz 04:03 1 May 2009 (BST)
    Reason please, Boxy.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by The shoemaker (talk • contribs) 00:35, 3 May 2009.
    It's title isn't descriptive, and the content is confusing and badly formatted. It's mostly a duplicate of content already in the help section, and what isn't could be covered with a few lines being added to the basic formatting page -- boxy talk • teh rulz 08:08 4 May 2009 (BST)
  3. The page needs a lot of work to be considered even passable. -Karekmaps?! 10:09, 7 May 2009 (BST)
  • Unsuccessful - Page is deemed unsuitable in its present form and needs a lot of work to bring it up to scratch. -- Cheese 16:32, 8 May 2009 (BST)


Rat Tactics

Developed independently of the similarly themed, if more well known, Hiding in Plain Sight page. Rat Tactics predates that -- just barely. These are the tactics that helped us survive, even sometimes almost thrive, during the March of the Dead. And anyone who says it was because of Kevan boosting syringe rates just wasn't there, surviving... rat style. --WanYao 20:08, 30 April 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. c.f. my nomination, above --WanYao 20:08, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  2. Yar. -- Cheese 14:48, 2 May 2009 (BST)
  3. This is a great article. I remember reading about and using these tactics. Very helpful. A fun, interesting style of writing. Nuabreed knows his stuff. --Giles Sednik CAPDSWA 06:02, 8 May 2009 (BST)
  4. Yes. -- --Athur birling 08:56, 8 May 2009 (BST)
  5. Yes. --Le bourreau 11:53, 8 May 2009 (BST)
  6. Yes. --Jim Bim 22:50, 8 May 2009 (GMT)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  • Successful - The plebs have spoken. -- Cheese 10:53, 8 May 2009 (BST)

User:Grim s/Grims guide to staying alive

Controversial, influential and mostly dead on the money -- if a bit, uh, overly cynical and at times quite over the top. Kinda like good ole Grim himself.... --WanYao 20:08, 30 April 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. I nominated the gorram thing --WanYao 19:58, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  2. I was never a huge fan of Grim but this amused me. -- Cheese 14:48, 2 May 2009 (BST)
  3. A great piece of work. --Pestolence(talk) 23:38, 3 May 2009 (BST)
  4. Influenced my later guide (which is in need of a rewrite,) and a good guide for newer players, if it is a bit aggressive. Very nice piece of work. Linkthewindow  Talk  12:42, 7 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  • Successful - While Grim may be gone, his sense of humour will live on. -- Cheese 10:53, 8 May 2009 (BST)


First Siege of Caiger Mall

Pretty well written article, it's got plenty of information in it and it's pretty interesting to read. Particularly since Caiger has a lot of history and this was the first major siege that occurred in front of it. -- Cheese 19:53, 29 April 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. As per reasoning above. -- Cheese 19:53, 29 April 2009 (BST)
  2. Although can we not replace those pesky red links with simple bolded text? --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 20:03, 29 April 2009 (BST)
  3. This is arguably the most important allusion to UD's past, and a very popular one. I agree with Rosslessness- if this does get chosen, we should simply bold the dead links. -- Lorddragonfang  Talk 00:04, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  4. Yes - but kill those red links with bolded text or undelete the pages. Also - as above. Linkthewindow  Talk  09:51, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  5. Yuh. Some history is dead, but we can still record it ;) --WanYao 19:53, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  6. I like this page, I suggested this on UDWiki_talk:Featured_Articles. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:18, 1 May 2009 (BST)
  7. As all above, but I'm going to remove the red links as Ross suggested. Really annoying. --Pestolence(talk) 23:52, 3 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  • Successful - Red links aside, this wins. =) -- Cheese 10:53, 8 May 2009 (BST)

RNG

Pretty interesting and gives background on something that is at the core of our Urban Dead experience. -- Cheese 19:53, 29 April 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. As per reasoning above. -- Cheese 19:53, 29 April 2009 (BST)
  2. Although I preferred my old testament RNG. Linkthewindow  Talk  09:51, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  3. I suggested this on UDWiki_talk:Featured_Articles. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:18, 1 May 2009 (BST)
  4. This is a great article. Very thorough and useful. The info applies to everyone.--Giles Sednik CAPDSWA 20:43, 4 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  1. I'm not a fan of this article, and I wrote most of it's current content. Apart from that fact it could very well be wrong in some parts due to my limited knowledge of such functions, the main thing is that I think it reads a bit poorly in some places. Doesn't flow right. A second set of eyes could probably improve it a lot just with some restructure and reordering. -- User:The Rooster RoosterDragon User talk:The Rooster 17:39, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  2. Meh --WanYao 19:51, 30 April 2009 (BST) To elaborate, it just doesn't excite me. <_< --WanYao 20:00, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  3. As Wan. --Pestolence(talk) 22:08, 2 May 2009 (BST)
  • Unsuccessful - Several negative points raised and needs some fixing. -- Cheese 10:53, 8 May 2009 (BST)

NecroWatch

Main page for the NecroWatch project which is a good mix of fluff, encourages survivors to take risks and be proactive, and in its mission tries to get more people to contribute to the Wiki. Quote from extropymine during original discussion about Featured Articles. -- Cheese 19:53, 29 April 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. As per reasoning above. -- Cheese 19:53, 29 April 2009 (BST)
  2. One day I will get the cake. I always like A.L.I.C.E. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 20:08, 29 April 2009 (BST)
  3. *coughthecakeisaliecough* Excellently written, creative, well formatted, and useful to boot. Certainly seems like feature material to me. - X:/LorddragonfangCursorBlink.gif [ Talk ]  00:11, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  4. I love the Necrowatch stuff. I am not only saying this because A.L.I.C.E. will open to the doors to the NecroTech facility in which my character is sleeping if I don't. --Cpl Adrian Shephard 00:56, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  5. Very useful service, and should be plugged at every change. Like now. Linkthewindow  Talk  09:51, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  6. The cake is very hard to get down...there's no milk! Other than that, I absolutely agree--Dr Mycroft Chris 14:22, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  7. I heartily endorse this nomination. -- User:The Rooster RoosterDragon User talk:The Rooster 17:32, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  8. Who the hell is ALICE?? ;) --WanYao 19:53, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  9. For the cause! CITIZEN VI 23:14, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  10. For great justice! --N00bert foxhound DA NW 01:38, 1 May 2009 (BST)
  11. Good stuff. I gots to get backs to dat. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 05:55, 1 May 2009 (BST)
  12. As above. --Pestolence(talk) 22:34, 4 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  • Successful - Pretty much unanimous. =) -- Cheese 10:53, 8 May 2009 (BST)
I'd say more than "pretty much", mate. CITIZEN VI 16:21, 8 May 2009 (BST)

Trenchcoater

Need I say more? This page is very funny to read and is overall awesome. -- Cheese 19:53, 29 April 2009 (BST)

Yes

Place votes of support here with reasons

  1. As per reasoning above. -- Cheese 19:53, 29 April 2009 (BST)
  2. Does anyone need to say more? -- Lorddragonfang  Talk 00:09, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  3. GLORY TO THE TRENCHCOAT! --Orange Talk 00:30, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  4. I'll need guns. Lots of guns. --WanYao 19:55, 30 April 2009 (BST)
    Weak Yes - It's a hilarious page as it is, but it definitely could be improved, as Link said in the No section. It deserves to be featured, but maybe cleaned up a little first. --Pestolence(talk) 20:21, 30 April 2009 (BST) Changing my vote. --Pestolence(talk) 16:53, 3 May 2009 (BST)
  5. I like this page, I suggested this on UDWiki_talk:Featured_Articles. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:18, 1 May 2009 (BST)

No

Place votes against here with reasons

  1. But reluctantly. It's funny, but it's little more then a piss-take at trenchcoaters, without examining common trenchie mistakes, etc. The current page (which is mostly quotes) should be moved off to a subpage and a new page built in it's ashes. Linkthewindow  Talk  12:17, 30 April 2009 (BST)
  2. Not in it's current place. It's not a good example of a glossary page. Move it to somewhere like Trenchcoater Folklore, and place an actual glossary article (including a link to this page) at Trenchcoater, and then I'd change my vote -- boxy talk • teh rulz 04:02 1 May 2009 (BST)
  3. As Boxy. --Pestolence(talk) 16:53, 3 May 2009 (BST)
  • Unsuccessful - Needs re-writing to correct the points raised in discussion. -- Cheese 10:53, 8 May 2009 (BST)
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