Developing Suggestions

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Developing Suggestions

This section is for general discussion of suggestions for the game Urban Dead.

It also includes the capacity to pitch suggestions for conversation and feedback.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Resources

• The Frequently Suggested List
• Suggestions Dos and Do Nots

How To Make a Discussion

Adding a New Discussion

To add a general discussion topic, please add a Tier 3 Header (===Example===) below, with your idea or proposal.

Adding a New Suggestion

• To add a new suggestion proposal, copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.
• The process is illustrated in this image.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change.
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past month may be cycled without notice.

Please add new discussions and suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Like below, trying out several ideas at once

Timestamp: 03:43, 23 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Several

Scope: Wide-ish

Description: Just a few tweaks/new skill ideas I'm throwing out in case one or two is worth looking at: Feeding drag in reverse - maybe a new skill, lets zombies pull weak zombies (<13HP) inside uncaded buildings, maybe only into ruins. Aids squatting. Holiday addition - during the Christmas period, turned on and off at the same time as snow/decorations/trees etc, add the letter J to death rattle and remove it when the season's over. Why? Jangar barrz. Addition to gesturing - allow gesture to function like newspapers, giving the option to "gesture beckoningly" at someone, or maybe worded better, allowing them alone to see it, like papers. Zombie 'graffiti' - allow zombies with a new skill, under memories, to replace graffiti with gore and filth, giving the message Someone has smeared gore and filth across here instead of the graffiti text. Cost would be 2AP a time to balance out lack of item. A skill under construction allowing barricading of ruins for either double cost (2AP per attempt) or half the success rate, mostly for culting but also for aiding reclamation of ghost towns.

Discussion (Like below, trying out several ideas at once)

Squatting Drag - Yes. You! Stoopid! Get on point!
Holi-J - Meh.
Gesture Under Table - Double meh. Use your claws.
Zombiti - No. Zombies don't need the ability to spam lies. Plus it would make life culting far overpowered.
Ruin cading - Are you insane? Ruins are underpowered enough as it is, don't make them half-pointless. --VVV ^RPMBG 04:27, 23 September 2010 (BST)

Easy pinatas is the point. Pehaps giving zombies the ability to lay pipes would serve the same purpose better. 04:38, 23 September 2010 (BST)

Reversed Feeding drag could be useful, maybe if a zombie has recently killed a survivor, they could "tag" certain buildings with bloody hand prints, but nothing serious. Not big on the others. --Gat 04:33, 23 September 2010 (BST)

Bullet pointed lists like this are why Santa cries (yes, Santa) when you make multiple suggestions at once.

• Drag - No. Zombies that want to be outside, rather than squatting in buildings, should be allowed to stay outside to hear groans, not get pulled inside where they can't.
• Holi-J - Only if it mentions that their tongues are frozen. Otherwise no.
• Gesturing - No.
• Graffiti - In addition to graffiti, yes. In place of, no. It needs to be cleanable as well by survivors.
• Construction - No.

My opinions are irrefutable. —Aichon— 04:47, 23 September 2010 (BST)

Well yeah, the implication was that zombie smearing would be paintable over just like other graffiti is. 05:15, 23 September 2010 (BST)

You know how you can use a UV light to see whether there have been... bodily fluids in an area, whereas normal humans won't see a thing?
What if zombies have that same kind of vision, such that when they graffiti or whatever you call the zombie equivalent only the fellow undead can see it? --Aeon17x 05:26, 23 September 2010 (BST)

Putting on my devious hat. Say I'm in borehamwood, I could suicide repair a 500ap repair, get a friendly zombie to drag me outside, ruin the place, then drag me back inside. Passing zombies would just see a ruin as I idle safely out. The graffiti thing is an age old dupe, probably katthew.

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Duped stuff

Timestamp: Gat 02:36, 22 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Skills

Scope: Zombie

Description: *Small Concentrations of zombies have been found with increased speed, strength, and lust for blood. They roam the streets with renewed hunger, adapting in unimaginable ways... (some of these are ridiculous, just so you know ahead fo time!) Bellowing Rattle Survivors swear they can understand the screeching of zombies at night, claiming they seem to be speaking out to the horde... Found under bellow, if a zombie locates a large group of survivors, they can let out a bellowing rattle for 10 AP. This skill lets a zombie let out a death rattle that can be heard by any zombie/survivor outdoors and/or in a building without a door for up to three blocks away, and counts as a regular bellow Strong Lungs (Or strong throat) The zombies biological structure has been altered slightly over time, the large bellowing, and groaning sounds it produced have increased the amount of air it can suck ino its deteriorating lungs, and a tougher throat allowing it to make loud noises easier. Found under Bellow after reaching level 10, if a zombie uses the bellow skill, they have a reduced cost to only 5. Likes it Rough (name is more or less a joke) The undead have become even more relentless in their attempt to find easy food. Showing almost a parental mentality, the older zombies have been found dragging survivors out of their safe houses with even more strength, slamming them into objects and clawing up their skin as they drag them... Requires feeding drag/tangling grasp(?) If the zombie has grabbed hold of the survivor, and all requirements have been met for "likes it Rough", then when using feeding drag, there is a chance of harming the survivor in the process, granting the equivalent EXP as if they had hit them. 25% chance of harming the survivor for 3 HP in a lit building 50% chance of harming a survivor for 3 HP in an unlit building 50% chance of harming a survivor for 4 HP in a ransacked/ruined building This last one seemed realistic since we drag humans into the streets all the time for baby zombies, then it would make sense for the zombie to attempt to pulverise them while they are exiting. Even if the zombie wasn't attempting to do that, flavor text points to the survivors trying to get out of their grasp. These three ideas I'm sure are dupes, but seemed like good suggestions when I thought on them. In fact, there's rarely an idea which hasn't been duped before XD

Discussion (Duped stuff)

No on Bellowing Rattle. Feeding groans are only good because they never lie, unlike the otherwise overpowered radios (disinformation is a surprisingly effective tactic). If one could bellow Zaan, nah marh harmanz haarh. (Soon, no more survivors here.), even when they're the first to breach a building with 100+ survivors, they could trick the less than immediate listeners into not following the next few bellows from there. A key difference between zombies and survivors is that zombies needn't worry about trust, they just help each other kill. Don't let them lie to 4.4% of their zetheren all at once.

Yes on Strong Lungs. Perhaps make it still cheaper, as in 1AP. Easy to counter, just sleep in groups of 24 or less. Also encourages coordinated cultists to work together as a team to allow one of them to bellow; Teamwork is fun.

Yes on Likes it Rough. However, make it just as effective in lit, unlit, and dark buildings. Perhaps even have it do 5 damage in ruins, there's a lot of rusty nails and broken glass in those. But absolutely make it non-fatal, like falling from a ruin. No sense buying a skill that might unintentionally kill your friend's meal. --VVV ^RPMBG 02:51, 23 September 2010 (BST)

Not terrible. Basically, I'd have two skills. Banshee Wail (Bellow Costs Reduced to 5) and Forced Removal, successfully feeding dragging a survivor causes them to lose 3hp, 5hp if the building is ruined. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:23, 23 September 2010 (BST)

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Clean Clothes

Timestamp: V darkstar 14:47, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Clothing

Scope: Humans

Description: Kinda lame but... I think I need to clean of my blood stained and torn paper crown so for a few AP you can clean you cloths and sow them up?

Discussion (Clean Clothes)

You can change your clothes by clicking the Settings button. Different types of clothes are available depending on sort of building you are in (as long as it isn't ransacked or ruined). See our page on Clothes for more. Cheers, ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ ^talk 15:23, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Its also a kind of dupe. Launderettes were also suggested. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:32, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Some clothes (like the party hat) were available for a limited time so I can see the usefulness, but if it's a dupe its a dupe. --~ 15:41, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Don't like it - needing to completely replace clothes gives value to some buildings that otherwise would have none, such as Mansions and Stadiums. If you want new football shoes or diamond necklaces, then repairing them is the only solution - which gives an incentive to leave your mall in the green suburb and to do something, which is good in my books. -- Spiderzed▋ 17:21, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Suggested a million times, and while clothes are cool, I personally think having ripped up bloody clothes is more flavorful, and realistic, then having neat, tidy clothes. (washing them would be pointless compared to using that water to drink for another day, think of it that way.) --Gat 02:39, 22 September 2010 (BST)

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DNA Extractor Reveals Approximate HP

Timestamp: -- LEMON #1 12:29, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Balance

Scope: Survivors

Description: As a newbie trying to ration AP whilst outside to getting any possible last hit on random zombies, or just finding out what HP is on that last zombie on your last few AP in a siege, there are many situations where I'd like to know what HP a zombie has without having to use a bullet/shell or swing with an axe. I'd like a more definite way to find out the HP of a zombie at the top of a pile, and I think DNA Extractors are somehow the answer. It doesn't have to be a definite answer, it could be flavour text which just approximates the zombie's health in the 0-20, 20-40, 40-60 region. All of this concept and flavour text (fucking hell I hate you flavour nazis) are all up for discussion. Thoughts?

Discussion (DNA Extractor Reveals Approximate HP)

In every case, it should require Diagnosis additionally. Would seem odd if you can estimate zombie HPs while you have no clue if a normal human being is hurt. -- Spiderzed▋ 12:57, 21 September 2010 (BST)

I disagree with the flavour. The Flavour must be Cinammon. --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 14:53, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Just hit them once with an axe. Same ap, the only time I would extract to find hp if it was a new zombie I'd never encountered . --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:33, 21 September 2010 (BST)

well not exactly the same AP due to hit percentage, but yeah. Also agree that Diagnosis would need to be required. Not a bad suggestion, though. --~ 15:38, 21 September 2010 (BST)

I dislike this. It's bad for flavour reasons (I'm not even particularly keen on attacks telling you a zombie's HP), and I feel it'd be a minor (not huge, but noticeable) downer for zombies. 16:13, 21 September 2010 (BST)

That's not a bad idea. Survivors without diagnosis can't see zombie heath when attacking. Perhaps indicators when they reach 25 or 12 health, such as You shoot at the zombie for 4 damage. Coagulated blood begins to flow from their wounds. and You shoot at the zombie for 4 damage. Their many wounds reveal shattered bone and tattered muscle. You could still find the exact health values, you'd just have to work a little for it. --VVV ^RPMBG 02:32, 23 September 2010 (BST)

The only value in something like this would be to let you see the HP values of zombies that aren't at the top of the stack, but that would be overpowered. It makes no flavor sense (yes, I'm a flavor nazi) that you could find out the HP of the zombie at the top of the stack without finding out the values of those beneath it. In the end, just use an axe. —Aichon— 22:24, 21 September 2010 (BST)

I have no problems with this, not a big fan, but if it went into suggestions I've vote keep for it... As long as the DNA scan had the high failure chance when it comes to rotters! --Gat 02:55, 22 September 2010 (BST)

i kinda like it.. it's kosher flavored.----sexualharrison ¯\()/¯ 03:27, 22 September 2010 (BST)

Overpowered. Just knife 'em. --VVV ^RPMBG 02:32, 23 September 2010 (BST)

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Halve all hit points

Timestamp: Spiderzed▋ 12:45, 19 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Value change

Scope: Everyone

Description: Let's go crazy and halve all hitpoints. These would be the concrete effects: Starting humans and zombies have 25HP. Bodybuilding/Flesh Rot just grants +5HP rather than +10HP, giving a total of 30HP. Revived humans have 12/15HP (depending on if they have Bodybuilding or not.) drag-eligibility still gets triggered at 12HP, putting freshly revived humans without FAKs at great risk (and giving bodybuilding actually some tangible benefit, as even infected bodybuilders aren't draggable right off the bat) damage from weapons and infection remains unaltered damage from failed Freerunning into ruins is halved to 2HP, rather than 5HP (17-20% of total possible health for stumbling over rubble would be a bit extreme, wouldn't it?) healing still heals 5/10/15HP depending on circumstances and skills, and digestion still grants 4HP per bite XP for healing and attacking remain the same Why go that crazy? Because of these beneficial effects: Zombies Lone ferals get a far better chance to break in and still have the AP to drag/kill someone, making even lone ferals dangerous. Cheap revive costs become far less of an issue in balance, as they are closer to kill costs, without the need to raise the AP costs for reviving to a ridiculous amount At the same time, combat revives remain a viable tactic, as they work reliably for exactly 10AP and just use up a single 2% item (unlike melee weapons, which probably use more than the 10AP, and unlike guns, which clog up more than 2% of encumbrance). Eating corpses becomes a viable tactic, as the AP costs to do so are close to that of receiving a headshot and rising again with full HP PKers PKers would need far less HP to kill, allowing further away bolt-holes and epic striketeam mass homicide PKers could actually make some impact, as the kill costs are so close to revive costs OTOH, the halved HP would put also PKers at greater risk, as even dark places aren't a darn safe protection from every lone wolf without a genny and fuel. A bodybuilding PKer with a flak jack could be killed with a pistol for 20AP on average (((30HP / 4 damage)/65% hit probability)/50% darkness penalty). Carrying genny+fuel for PKer hunting would still be a sensible option, as it allows a.) to "bank" AP in advance that later make it easier to hunt PKers and b.) it allows to collect multiple bounties in dark places swarming with PKers This would also give bounty-hunting/retribution kills some sense, as the costs for doing so aren't so much ridicoulously higher than the costs to revive the PKers (although it would still remain somewhat less AP-efficient than ignoring PKers and putting the APs rather into reviving the victims) Survivors Survivors get a far better chance to break a cade block, as they can kill and dump multiple zeds per individual AP cycle. A survivor loaded with pistols could repel a rotter for 10AP on average, allowing him to kill and dump 4 zeds at once and still cade a bit if he is fully rested. (((30HP / 4 damage)/65% hit probability = 10AP, +1AP for dumping = 11AP per pop) Survivors can fill up their inventory mostly with FAKs, syringes, a toolbox and maybe also a genny and/or fuel, and still put enough guns into their spare encumbrance for them to actually have an effect. A single revolver and a spare clip for a total of 6% would be sufficient to repel a single fully healthy rotter Flavour 3-4 shotgun blasts or 5-8 revolver bullets would be all what it takes to send someone to the boot hill, rather than the ridiculous amount of abuse that folks can take right now before they die The beneficial effects would probably be slightly more in favour of zombies than survivors (as the imperative of zombies is to attack whenever possible, while survivors usually only fight when things have gone wrong), but it would offer something for both, and it would especially nerf the dreaded cade blocking without removing it entirely. I'm aware that it's crazy and extreme, but I see a lot of merit in this. Discuss.

Discussion (Halve all hit points)

I figured the reason why everyone's so tough to kill in this game is because we're all descendants of Keith. So having everyone literally miss half of their life is more than a bit... unsettling. --Aeon17x 13:43, 19 September 2010 (BST)

MAKE IT SO 18:39, 19 September 2010 (BST)

It's an interesting idea. I could see the benefits of it but also see how it would be much less beneficial to survivors. Ultimately I think it would drive away players, especially those that play strictly as survivors. Therefore I would likely kill vote it if it comes up in the suggestion portal. --~ 18:53, 19 September 2010 (BST)

It's not like a survivor has to put up with a lot of death, unless he seeks it out. The last three times a survivor of mine died was when I purposefully slept in red zones and in Blackmore NT. Remember also that this suggestion does nothing to cades - they remain the roadblock that they are right now, and probably even more so, as it becomes possible to break a cade block. It just makes things more exciting when the cades actually break (which is rare enough). -- Spiderzed▋ 19:33, 19 September 2010 (BST)

The main issue I see here is Dealt in lead syndrome. Once somebody dies, they'll die again so quickly that the game loses loads of its playability. Griefing becomes ridiculously overpowered, not to mention zerging. Ultimately, it's steps to speeding up the game, the same thing as doubling AP would do. Too much could happen while somebody was offline for this to be a completely logical decision.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 19:04, 19 September 2010 (BST)

That's what you should carry FAKs for (and they aren't really hard to find, unlike healing items in DiL). Even my PKers carry at all times at least 1 FAK, and more likely 2 or 3 of them. If you are really more concerned about being killed than anything else, then sleep in the dark. -- Spiderzed▋ 19:33, 19 September 2010 (BST)

Damages newbs. Newbs are the future. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:54, 19 September 2010 (BST)

Ross is right, especially when you consider that flaks would now be twice as effective, and lots of newbs don't have them.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:02, 19 September 2010 (BST)

I can see Ross' point about survivor newbs. They'd probably need something to partially offset the hardships of this suggestion, such as free Lurching Gait by the rage mechanic, or bonus healing items (FAKs, beers, wines) at the start. That would be a different suggestion, though. (And linking this suggestion with an unrelated suggestion would most likely greatly diminish the chance to get this through the suggestion system. I'm open to be convinced to the contrary, though.)

OTOH, babah zambahz would greatly profit from this. The early ZKing becomes far more profitable, as the 10XP kill bonus is more often handed out. (This also goes for newb survivors who gain their first levels by killing zombies in the streets.)

Don't see the point about flaks, though. Most honorable PKers don't target newbs at all, and even if they target newbs, PKers are the least sorrow of newbs compared to zombies. -- Spiderzed▋ 21:31, 19 September 2010 (BST)

I don't like it, I think it will reduce fun. - User:Whitehouse 21:06, 19 September 2010 (BST)

Coming from a survivor/PKer/zombie background, I have to say that I like it. Granted, it'll hurt survivors that end up in the crosshairs/claws of their enemies, but it'll help smart survivors, since it'll let them clear buildings more quickly, and it shouldn't hurt them much, since barricades are still there. That it buffs PKing is a nice fringe benefit. —Aichon— 21:36, 19 September 2010 (BST)

I'm a new zombie. Every time I die it takes me 10 to 15ap to stand up. Halving my HP is not a good thing. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:42, 19 September 2010 (BST)

To paraphrase the Prophet, zombies don't have 50AP. They have 44AP. Learn to accept it and embrace it. Though, in your case, it's a bit less. :P Besides, this won't increase the rate that you're killed very much at all for the simple reason that they can't kill you twice. When I first started out, I woke up dead as often as not (come to think of it, not much has changed...), but until I stand up again, they can't kill me again, which means that you'd still be starting off each day with 35-40AP, just as you are now. —Aichon— 21:50, 19 September 2010 (BST)

Except now instead of knocking down a single newbie zombie per venture outside, I'll be knocking down two. - User:Whitehouse 22:04, 19 September 2010 (BST)

It's not the number of times you die, but the chance of waking up dead I'm worrying about. Looking at this its things like, a level one private being able to kill me on his own, or a dedicated survivor able to deliver a one shot kill --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:07, 19 September 2010 (BST)

This is really my only real concern with the suggestion. I could most certainly go for lowering the health of survivors and zombies across the board, but the possibility of a one-shot kill due to a fuel+flare gun combo seems too much. Raise the health to a level where a rezzed survivor doesn't have that issue and then I would vote for this. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 08:56, 21 September 2010 (BST)

It encourages people to travel in large groups instead of the 1-5 survivors all huddled in a building barricading/the lone zombies trying to tough it out. Also encourages people to be a little smarter in their actions... I like it for the most part, even though there are a few ways this could be bad. (such as has Ross has mentioned, new players. --Gat 04:44, 20 September 2010 (BST)

Yeah, right. Seems like newbs are the big roadblock that this suggestion has to deal with. Ideas on goodies that could be linked with this suggestion and are still minor enough to not kill it? Personally, I'd be inclined to give new zombies Digestion for free, and to give new survivors 1 bonus FAK and 1 wine/beer for free. Importing the Rage mechanic could also work to help both kinds of newbs (and would be easy-peasy, as the code already exists and would just need to be applied to Malton). -- Spiderzed▋ 08:52, 20 September 2010 (BST)

Becomes way to easy to max out your characters. Firemen and Corpses basically become gods with this implementation. I'll admit it would be fun for awhile, but whats the point of making max characters so easily? also, it would be easy to grief people like this, just stand in revive points like cemeteries and kill everything, which because of the half life, becomes much easier.--TheWritingWriter 23:50, 20 September 2010 (BST)

At best, it means 20XP per day more, as the 10XP kill bonus is handed out more often. There are still 50AP, and base XP for attacking remain the same. In the case of newbs it are probably even far less then those 20XP, as they don't have the hit% to kill effectively. -- Spiderzed▋ 08:01, 21 September 2010 (BST)

I like the idea in theory, in practice, not so much. Everybody's listed a bunch of good reasons, so I'll add another voice to those, but the thing that gets me most is "The limit of 50AP per 25 hours is to keep the game balanced and to stop too much from happening overnight; if we doubled the recharge rate, it'd mean people getting in a hundred APs' worth of actions while other players were offline, which is enough to cross the city or deal an easily fatal amount of combat damage."

Ignoring the bits about movement and barricades, there's still the point that while ferals and small groups would gain a lot of benefits, large-scale engagements won't be happening again. At least not as we know them. They'd end way too quickly. RinKou 05:30, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Large-scale engagements? What large-scale engagements? There haven't been any since cade blocking has been introduced. The last two things to happen that were close to large-scale engagements were No Escape and Blackmore 404, and they were more save-or-die affairs that turned into hopeless slaughterfests as soon as the beachhead stood. Less HP for everyone might even counter that, as it becomes thinkable to put a serious dent into a beachhead (alone, or in a small ad-hoc strike team in case of groups using IRC), so that cading becomes possible again. -- Spiderzed▋ 08:01, 21 September 2010 (BST)

In a new city? Yes please. In Malton? Noooooooooooo. Call me conservative -- LEMON #1 12:20, 21 September 2010 (BST)

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Airstrike

Timestamp: -Dezonus- (talk) 01:41, 19 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Skill, extension of radio Operation

Scope: Survivors, level 25 or above (20 if military) (Subject to change) can buy the "Call in Airstrike" skill at a cost of 500XP

Description: Airstrike, called in by radio on a specific frequency (probably only available at Forts). When the player with the Call in Airstrike skill broadcasts "Requesting Airstrike [xx,yy]" on the correct frequency, it will instantly return the message "Airstrike Request, Location [xx,yy]: Location name, Please confirm.", to which the player can confirm for 20AP, or cancel for 0AP. The frequency will then broadcast "Airstrike [xx,yy] ETA 24hrs", and will periodically rebroadcast the time remaining. Any player with the Call in Airstrike skill can abort the airstrike up to 1 minute before impact, even if they didnt call it in. They would broadcast "Abort Airstrike [xx,yy]" on the same frequency (But does not need to be the same location. Only one Airstrike can be called in at a time for the whole of Malton, and once a successful Airstike takes place, another cannot be called in for another week ("Requesting Airstrike [xx,yy]" "Airstrike unavailable for another (time remaining)) Airstrikes will deal 40 damage to everybody, regardless of whether Zombie or Survivor on the block of impact. And building will be ruined with "Explosion damage", and take a lot more AP to repair. Surounding blocks will randomly take damage up to a 5 block radius. Airstrikes cannot be called in if any part of a fort is within that 5 block radius. Examples: "Requesting Airstrike [19,27]" "Airstrike Request, Location [19,27]: Caiger Mall (North West Corner), Please confirm." Confirm Airstrike (20AP) "Airstrike [19,27] ETA 24hrs" "Payload delivered [19,27] at 04:21, 17 September 2010 (BST)" "Requesting Airstrike [83,92]" "Airstrike request declined, too close to Fort Perryn"' If the bomber flies over you: You see a External Military Bomber plane heading [direction] (for military and or people with the skill You see a plane heading [direction] (for non military, or those who dont have the skill) You see a big pretty flying thingy (for Zombies)

Discussion (Airstrike)

Please note: I suggested this earlier, with some who sort of liked the idea, but thought it needed development, so now it's here -Dezonus- ^(talk) 01:42, 19 September 2010 (BST)

No one said it needs development because it really is an overpowered suggestion. Heck, if you take it to voting again, I will not be surprised if one of the Ops use their SysOp spaminated power. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:56, 19 September 2010 (BST)

Aye, you're getting to attached to your suggestion. The suggestion is hopeless; Distance yourself from it, and your reputation will remain largely intact. Remember, your goal here should be to increase the quality of suggestions that Kevan reads, not to have him read your own. --VVV ^RPMBG 02:42, 19 September 2010 (BST)

The fuck is this shit. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:32, 19 September 2010 (BST)

Instead of making the long post I made in suggestions up for voting, I'll keep it simple, and sumarize it in one word... NO! --Gat 02:36, 19 September 2010 (BST)

Ugh, No --TheWritingWriter 04:14, 19 September 2010 (BST)

No auto-hit. Ever. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 08:59, 21 September 2010 (BST)

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Carpenter

Timestamp: --Scout talk!!!!! 20:39, 18 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Starting class

Scope: Survivors

Description: The Carpenter starting class would start with a toolbox and the Construction skill.

Discussion (Carpenter)

To make this suggestion complete: Where would Carpenters spawn? What would their Welcome Message be? -- Spiderzed▋ 20:46, 18 September 2010 (BST)

The above doesn't matter because we have Engineer, a character class which starts with Construction, in Peer Reviewed already. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 21:11, 18 September 2010 (BST)

Also, Suggestions/RejectedApril2006#Construction_WorkerConstruction Worker, which is the exact same thing, was duped because of the Engineer eons before it. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 21:12, 18 September 2010 (BST)

Hint: That isn't a dupe bro. Hint to suggester: This will not pass because as much as I hate faggot paranoid "THIS WILL HELP ZERGING" claims, this actually would help zerging with random suicide repairs for all! (see how I used it properly you paranoid cockgobbles?) -- LEMON #1 12:34, 21 September 2010 (BST)

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booby trap skill

Timestamp: Naughteous Maximus 17:40, 17 September 2010 (BST)

Type: survivor & zombie skills

Scope: survivors and zombies

Description: This is a more refined version of a previous proposal by another player (11th-Nov-2005 Booby Trap) to implement a Military skill under the construction section called booby trap. This is a very limited skill which would allow for a survivor to implement a single booby trap in a building that is barricaded. It is a single firing booby trap. Buildings which are not barricaded can not have booby traps. A barricaded building can not have multiple booby traps. Like all other construction skills, it would require having a toolbox and maybe another object, such as a length of pipe, which is consumed for the trap. The booby trap would go off to impact only the person to "bring down the last of the barricade." This could be either zombie or survivor. It would do a small amount of damage, maybe 5 or 10 hp. I would suggest that it take considerable AP to set up a booby trap, maybe 5 or 10 AP. Because it does take so many AP, if someone tries to booby trap an already booby-trapped building, they should be told before the AP expenditure that "A booby trap has already been set here." Maybe it could be part of the description of the barricade, but only from the inside of the building. In addition, to balance the skill, zombies could have a recognize booby trap ability in their Memories of Life section. That could either work outright to avoid the trap, or have a high percentage chance to avoid the trap. Unskilled zombies would be unable to avoid triggering the trap. I believe this is in character with the apocalyptic zombie survivor mentality, and I think it would be a fun addition to the game. Additional suggestions for this idea are welcomed.

Discussion (booby trap skill)

Duped, Shooting Through Barricades, Multiply it by 1000. No. And how is 5-10 damage in one hit a "small amount of damage"? No single attack in this game does more then 4. --TheWritingWriter 20:14, 2010 September 17 (BST)

Did you forget a weapon? Shotgun (Damage 10 points (8 against a flak jacket.)) Ontaru 20:47, 2010 September 17 (BST)

It is not "shooting through a barricade" if you'd read the entire suggestion carefully. The amount of damage is supposed to be more than any weapon can do, but a single shot. There is no "multiply by 1000" because you can only set up one. Period. Per building. And it only hits one target. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Naughteous Maximus (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

30 damage is the maximum damage it is possible to inflict with a single ap. Many issues here, notably, zombies (who will be the only players this will target), don't really care about hp, how does a pipe inflict so much damage, it can be used a a griefing tool against rot revive clinics, its ap inefficent, booby traps are triggered by someone destroying the cades, but not entering the building? How does that work? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:12, 17 September 2010 (BST)

You cite a dupe, say that it's more refined, but then, as far as I can tell, have not made any substantial changes aside from making it less powerful. That suggestion was killed by nearly everyone for a reason, and I don't see anything here that changes my mind. It effectively allows survivors to "bank" AP by investing it in the trap, which can later be spent to do damage. See also: Dos and Do Nots (the point about pinning down details), Auto Attacks, and the list of frequent suggestions (check the entry for "Traps"). —Aichon— 21:07, 17 September 2010 (BST)

Well, the suggestion of tying it to a barricade was really more to limit the places where they could be set up, but I understand what you are saying about banking AP. I did think it was much more thought out, not unlimited in scope as the previous suggestion. The idea behind it is that the length of pipe "rests" on the barricade and when the last layer is taken out, whoever is underneath gets beaned by it. The trap is gone after that. And remember, it may not be a zombie. There are those survivors who choose to work for the dark side of the force! But you are right, the essence of the concept has not changed. I will certainly understand if, for that reason, it is not implemented. Naughteous Maximus 21:31, 17 September 2010 (BST)

While booby traps fit the zombie apocolyptic setting, they would fall under so many dupes that it's pointless to uggest one. Still, why would it do 5-10 damage instead of the regular pipe damage? --Gat 22:27, 17 September 2010 (BST)

Oh yeah, I forgot about the shotgun. Sorry. And its multiply by 1000 because EVERY safehouse is going to have one of these damn things. And whenever it runs out, people will keep making more of it. I'm pretty sure there's a rule against uber powerful single shots.--TheWritingWriter 04:16, 19 September 2010 (BST)

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The Machete

Timestamp: --Ben834 03:35, 16 September 2010 (BST)

Type: Weapon

Scope: Survivor/Zombie

Description: No new skills, just uses the Hand-to-Hand Combat skill and the Knife Proficiency skill. Base Accuracy 25% +15%(Hand-to-Hand Combat skill) = 40% +15%(Knife Proficiency skill) = 55% Damage: 2 Basically a knife-hatchet hybrid. Because it has a longer blade and its fairly easy to use so it has more base accuracy, but it doesn't have the handle length to get a good swing or the weight to inflict enough damage as the axe would so it inflicts only 2 damage. Has a great Roleplaying value. Great for beginners(even better than the knife)but harder to get as it can be found only in: junkyards 1%(junk) armories 5% police departments 2%(evidence lockers) warehouses 5%(maybe manufactured or military surplus) mall sport stores 2% (you know how they have everything in that secret room you stumble upon on your way to the restroom...after a two hour long trip to the sports store...with a jumbo-extra-extra-large-COW-I-MEAN-RAT-MEAT-QUADRUPLE-POUNDER-AND-A-HALF-BIGMAC(even the kids are eating it these days)and finally realize they have a "SECRET ROOM" BUT NO RESTROOM!??!?!RAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!!!*explodes*) OH! And zombies can use it too so...yea..........within their endlessly clutching hands; MUWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!1!!ONE11!!(note: that was supposed to sound scary) Discussion (The Machete) No. Not even if Danny Trejo asked. 03:44, 16 September 2010 (BST) Was it because of the absence of a restroom? :D--Ben834 03:47, 16 September 2010 (BST) Peer Reviewed Dupe. And it's from 2005. If Kevan hasn't implemented it in the past 5 years, he's never going to implement it. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 03:47, 16 September 2010 (BST) But there's a significant difference: accuracy, zombies using it and the skills it needs for the extra accuracy--Ben834 03:49, 16 September 2010 (BST) It's a dupe regardless. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 03:55, 16 September 2010 (BST) Also, nothing about that suggestion says zombies can't use them. So still a dupe. And I will be ready to dupe you off the suggestions page with that suggestion. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 03:56, 16 September 2010 (BST) I want knife throwing. Can we have knife throwing? --Aeon17x 03:49, 16 September 2010 (BST) Someday Aeon, someday.--Ben834 03:51, 16 September 2010 (BST) That someday is never. December 1st, 2005 suggestion. Throwing Items. 6 spam votes. Out of 6 votes. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 03:55, 16 September 2010 (BST) Whoa. You guys are pretty quick at crushing people's dreams. I give props and cookies!!!--Ben834 03:58, 16 September 2010 (BST) I suggest this: Before making a suggestion, use the search bar on the left. It will save you time, and it will save others time. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 04:01, 16 September 2010 (BST) Hmmm...I always wondered what that was for.--Ben834 04:04, 16 September 2010 (BST) 1) A machete should not be more accurate than a knife. 2) A machete would cause WAY more damage than a knife. 3) Never gonna happen. But thanks for trying. Please come again and have a nice day. --Maverick Talk - OBR 404 09:02, 21 September 2010 (BST) Digestion update Timestamp: --Chris Ortego 06:57, 14 September 2010 (BST) Type: Skill Scope: Zombies Description: I think it would be great if zombies with digestion could gain a chance for bonus hp for successful biting attacks. It would be wise if they accept this and use it when the zombie count #'s drop more. Discussion (Digestion Update) I actually think most of the survivor count is from people with multiple accounts creating those level one firemen GKers or PKers everyday. I think its either spying sabotage or for flavour like if someone went crazy and attacked randomly in a situation, like when people run over each other because they begin to panic. --Chris Ortego 07:01, 14 September 2010 (BST) Zombies with digestion already gain HP for successful biting attacks. Is there anything I miss? -- Spiderzed▋ 08:19, 14 September 2010 (BST) As Spiderzed. Zombies already gain HP, so what is this suggestion for? —Aichon— 08:21, 14 September 2010 (BST) I was thinking about a bonus amount of hp but i guess I should incorporate that more --Chris Ortego 16:30, 14 September 2010 (BST) Well they already gain 4HP per bite, just like using digestion on a corpse. 17:02, 14 September 2010 (BST) Maybe a bonus upon finishing a survivor off with a bite. Easier to eat when the meat is no longer struggling. User:Whitehouse 17:11, 14 September 2010 (BST) I thought it was saying that the zombie could go above the maximum HP limit. Either way, I have to admit that digestion HP recovery is mostly good for when there isn't a corpse in sight to eat. Also, I think a lot of people only use bite to infect survivors. (usually there is a corpse in sight...)--Gat 06:05, 15 September 2010 (BST) I'm not even sure what exactly is being suggested. Care to elaborate? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 10:09, 20 September 2010 (BST) Sentry Duty Skill Timestamp: --Chris Ortego 06:40, 14 September 2010 (BST) Type: Skill Scope: Skilled Survivors Description: I am reintroducing the "sentry" idea to fit more properly with the new scouting skills of the survivors. The "Sentry Duty" skill. This is how it will work: You can buy this skill if you have bought the scout safehouse skill. You must be within your scouted safe house for the skill to work. When you buy the skill a new button will be available to you but it can only be used in your scouted safehouse. The function of the sentry skill is making the player guard the barricades and attack any zombies that may damage the barricade (for example a zombie clawing the barricade from EHB to VHB++)the player automatically attacks the zombie with the selected weapon (BUT THE PLAYER CAN ONLY BLOCK FIVE TIMES MAX). Here is a good example: John is happy. John just purchased the "Sentry Duty" skill today. John is preparing to leave the computer for the day and stopped in his safehouse with 16AP to spare(11 + 5 extra). John new he would be alone in that safe house for a long time tonight so he chose to click the drop down menu's next to the "Begin Sentry Duty" button. The first; how much time he wanted to guard for and the second; what weapon he was going on sentry duty with. John chose 24 hours and Shotgun(2)(This was a great choice for John because he had Advanced shotgun training). As John proceeded to click the "Begin Sentry Duty" button he realized there was a warning in red next to the button. John clicked the "Begin Sentry Duty" button. John could now automatically attack the next zombie that damages the barricades. 2AP per hour - 1AP per hour = 1AP per hour so durring sentry duty john regenrates 1 AP an hour x = # of hours 16AP - 15AP = 1AP + 1APx Within 13 hours there was a zombie that broke John's barricades down one level. John's character emediatelly jumped into action and shot the zombie intruder(gaining xp for the # of hours at post and the XP for the combat). But at any moment john could click the "End Sentry Duty" button that replaced the begin sentry duty button or preform an action besides talking and is refunded the AP used to pay every hour that hasn't been payed yet(saves the AP not used yet). 1AP + (1AP * 13hours) = 14AP then after sentry duty ends 14AP + 2APx Discussion (Sentry Duty Skill) I stopped reading after a paragraph. The fact that this means I missed 80% of the suggestion instantly means you're trying too hard with it. Simple things is better. 06:47, 14 September 2010 (BST) Thanks! I'll work on it. I thought that someone was gonna have to think this all out :D. --Chris Ortego 07:05, 14 September 2010 (BST) A few minor details (I also only read the first paragraph). First, it doesn't give you 5AP, it gives you a 10% chance that your 1AP action will cost 0AP. Secondly, this looks alot like firing through barricades.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 07:34, 14 September 2010 (BST) Also, auto-attacks. And auto-attacks alone are a big red glaring suggestion no-no. -- Spiderzed▋ 08:20, 14 September 2010 (BST) As Mis, Yonn, and Spiderzed. Too long, attacking through barricades is almost always bad, and auto-attacks are something to avoid. —Aichon— 08:23, 14 September 2010 (BST) Lets see, we got... shooting through barricades, auto-attacks, auto-HITS (from what I read) and improper AP loss. The way I see this, it states a survivor can set up base in a building, create a sentry, sleep that night, check the sentry in the morning to make sure they are still blocking, spend a few AP searching/restarting sentry duty, and continuosly do this over and over again by simply checking the server every couple hours. On top of that, a CRAPTON of survivors could all set up this same thing at the same time, allowing them all to shoot the same zombie. Also includes multiple by a thousand rule now. Do headshots apply? *facepalms* I realize a lot of people aren't satisfied with Kevan's new skill, but how about we just say "this skill sucks" rather than try to ammend it with a million different ideas, like how we did such with certain zombie skills which are considered generally pointless until later on (or vice versa). Anyone, anyone? --Gat 05:58, 15 September 2010 (BST) I'll give you credit though, you spelled guard right! (a lot of people spell it gaurd.) --Gat 06:01, 15 September 2010 (BST) All thanks to spell-check Kakashi. Oh and shall I break out the Spam for this suggestion or is that later?--Ben834 03:35, 16 September 2010 (BST) So, we have shooting through barricades, Auto hits and Multiply it by a billion? Yeah no. --TheWritingWriter 00:44, 16 September 2010 (BST) Auto-attack? Spam. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 10:10, 20 September 2010 (BST) Add "/" to the zombie vernacular Timestamp: ~ 21:25, 13 September 2010 (BST) Type: Flavor Scope: Zombies Description: I'd like to see the inclusion of "/" (forwardslash) to the zombie vernacular. Why? So that some day zombies too may share links in-game as survivors do. How? Well were fowardslash added, it would only be a matter of time before someone came up with something similar to tr.im or bit.ly that uses only characters found in the zamgrh alphabet. Why can't we do it now? Because I honestly can't think of a way of doing it without a forwardslash. Discussion (Add "/" to the zombie vernacular) I see no problem with this, nor do I see a reason to allow zombies to spam my screen with links that will rickroll me, and give my computer viruses. It is easy to overuse, and troll with, but at the same time could have significance. --Gat 05:59, 15 September 2010 (BST) Zombies can now surf the internets? NecroTech never ceases to amaze. --Aeon17x 08:12, 15 September 2010 (BST) You cant post links as a zombie? I never knew that, nor have I ever tried. Id put this in. --TheWritingWriter 00:46, 16 September 2010 (BST) Put the link in your profile if it's important, and gesture or do something similar to draw attention to yourself and get people to read your profile. Besides, zombies can't use computers — what need have they of hypertext? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 09:35, 19 September 2010 (BST) See also Feral Movement for some more ideas on that. -- Spiderzed▋ 06:38, 20 September 2010 (BST) Zombies can't say "zrazh" now? --Nuisance 04:42, 20 September 2010 (BST) Sleeping bag Timestamp: —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ErichZann (talk • contribs) 22:17, 12 September 2010 (BST). Type: Item Scope: Description: A means of getting more HP/AP faster, at a slight cost of safety. Here's my Idea: It allows the user to gain A) 3 AP/ Hour(Max 24) B) 10 HP(Max) (whatever Kev wants) But the user must be inactive for at least, say eight hours straight(No Logging in), must have sleeping bag and the cost is being 20%(WKW)more vulnerable. The survivor is thought to be groggy/suprised and unable to outmanouvre the assailant(s)as easily. This is based on the idea of being active while attacked instead of just sitting still and getting hit. This suggestion is just something to add detail to the game. I don't have a good grasp on statistics, so I'll leave it to those better equipped. The personal motivation behind this is motivate less frequent use on the server, people who are logging in and logging out, spending just a couple of points at a time. Discussion (Sleeping bag) Nothing stops me logging on before I go to sleep, spending all my AP and then doing this, so that I'll have half my AP back by the time I wake up?--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 22:29, 12 September 2010 (BST) Seems like a good idea, as long as attacks either are more accurate against this person or do more damage. --Zamins 00:09, 13 September 2010 (BST) Only if you give the zombies an equivelant. Everyone should have an equal amount of playtime. User:Whitehouse 00:17, 13 September 2010 (BST) I'd say zombies currently have more playtime. I mean if a zombie gets killed they can just stand back up for 6 AP. If a survivor gets killed they have to wait at a revive point. Which pretty much takes a day or more to get revived. --Zamins 00:28, 13 September 2010 (BST) It's your choice to stand around waiting for a revive, it doesn't however mean that the zombie form should be limited because of that. User:Whitehouse 00:42, 13 September 2010 (BST) Survivors already sleep when they run out of AP. And if they recharge more AP than the usual rate it would go head-to-head with Kevan's rationale on AP gain. I think you'll have better luck if it just regained HP very slowly (around +1 HP every two hours), and only for non-infected individuals. --Aeon17x 01:54, 13 September 2010 (BST) 1: Oh, geeze, I didn't know there was a secret way to not wait for a revive and still be a human. Please do tell us all the secret. 2: Limiting zombies, LIMITING ZOMBIES? How the hell is that limiting zombies? --Zamins 09:01, 13 September 2010 (BST) By applying unbalanced buffs to one side, the other becomes limited in its capabilities. I want to be able to play my characters equally, no matter which side of the conflict they happen to be on when I log in. User:Whitehouse 10:07, 13 September 2010 (BST) Where can I get one of these magic healing sleeping bags? I want one.--Mallrat TSI TKS CTD 11:04, 13 September 2010 (BST) Ok, So i spend all my ap, go back into my safehouse which is EHB, then i go to sleep in real life, and BOOM almost all my AP is back. This is a terrible idea, you may as well have just suggested we get an increase in AP per half hour instead of masking it behind a sleeping bag. --TheWritingWriter 20:42, 13 September 2010 (BST) Unbalanced buffs? Zombies are way more powerful then humans. Zombies spend 6 ap to get up. Although this idea probably isn't the best to balance it, as it is overpowerd. --Zamins 02:41, 14 September 2010 (BST) Uh huh, and survivors only spend 10AP to put them down, versus 3-4 times that for zambah-ahn-harman agzahn. 02:50, 14 September 2010 (BST) Fine, back to the drawingboard... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ErichZann (talk • contribs) at an unknown time. Make it only usable outside buildings and offer an equivalent item/skill to zombies and I might agree with it. Otherwise, I think it creates unbalance (see TheWritingWriter's comment abaove). ~ 22:25, 13 September 2010 (BST) yawn has been suggested before. xoxo 01:19, 16 September 2010 (BST) One-sided buff. Should be an equivalent "nap" ability for zombies and dead bodies. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 09:37, 19 September 2010 (BST) Hard Mode Timestamp: TheWritingWriter 00:54, 10 September 2010 (BST) Type: Zombie Class Scope: Zombies Description: Zombie starts with Brain Rot Discussion (Hard Mode) Theres a good chance these were dupped, but what do you guys think? could add some interesting twists to being a zombie. --TheWritingWriter 00:54, 10 September 2010 (BST) I think you should check before you post them, since otherwise you're wasting folks' time. —Aichon— 01:19, 10 September 2010 (BST) You could discuss all the classes under one header you know. Anyhow, the problem is that zombies need skills which will help them earn XP at a decent pace. Ransack, Scent Fear, Digestion, Brain Rot, none of those help zombies earn nearly enough XP for the next level. Memories of Life might help, but very rarely. - User:Whitehouse 01:30, 10 September 2010 (BST) This and this might interest you, already passed voting. User:Whitehouse 01:45, 10 September 2010 (BST) I deleted all the previous entries except this one. I kinda like the idea of starting the game with brain rot, adds moar challenge to the game. Sorta like the consumer class.--TheWritingWriter 02:32, 10 September 2010 (BST) Sounds like an easy multiple character opportunity to clog up revive points all over the city. --Aeon17x 02:34, 10 September 2010 (BST) Very easy chance for an asshole to abuse with multis... At the same time, I would have killed to have an alternate zombie class with brain rot, since personally, I like the idea of a harder chance at surviving as a zombie at lower levels. I mean heck, I got all the skills generally considered useless before getting the good skills as my first zombie for the reason of making the game more interesting. If there's a small note attached to it warning people who are new to UD about the effects the class has, (such as... "Hey, this class makes playing as a zombie just a tad bit harder early on, but is great for those who want a bit of a challenge." or something along those lines) then I would be perfectly fine with it. --Gat 00:25, 11 September 2010 (BST) Make it an option for all character classes - start normally, or start w/ brain rot. 00:30, 11 September 2010 (BST) Perhaps new characters could choose between Corpse (Vigor Mortis) or Rotten Corpse (Vigor Mortis and Brain Rot). No need to fool new survivors into ruining their lives, amusing as it would be. --VVV RPMBG 04:37, 11 September 2010 (BST) I think it would be a little overpowered if a zombie started with two skills. I wish there were more zombie classes though, to add a little moar variety.--TheWritingWriter 04:21, 19 September 2010 (BST) Just buy Brain Rot as your first skill. That's arguably harder, given how CR-happy some neighbourhoods are… ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 09:40, 19 September 2010 (BST) Suggestions up for voting Death by Dropped Museum Object by Aeon17x at 14:42, 8 September 2010 (BST) Zombies Feeding from a corpse infect the corpse by Spud at 23:00, 21 September 2010 (BST)