Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This page is for presenting and discussing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Further Discussion

Discussion concerning this page takes place here. Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general (including policies about it) takes place here.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. There you can read about many idea's that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe, or a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles. There users can also get a handle of what an appropriate suggestion looks like.
• Users should be aware that this is a talk page, where other users are free to use their own point of view, and are not required to be neutral. While voting is based off of the merit of the suggestion, opinions are freely allowed here.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• With the advent of new game updates, users are requested to allow some time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Format for Suggestions under development

Please use this template for discussion. Copy all the code in the box below, click [edit] to the right of the header "Suggestions", paste the copied text above the other suggestions, and replace the text shown here in red with the details of your suggestion.

===Suggestion===
{{suggestionNew
|suggest_time=~~~~
|suggest_type=Skill, balance change, improvement, etc.
|suggest_scope=Who or what it applies to.
|suggest_description=Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.
|discussion=|}}
====Discussion (Suggestion Name)====
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Cycling Suggestions

Developing suggestions that appear to have been abandoned (i.e. two days or longer without any new edits) will be given a warning for deletion. If there are no new edits it will be deleted seven days following the last edit.

This page is prone to breaking when there are too many templates or the page is too long, so sometimes a suggestion still under strong discussion will be moved to the Overflow-page, where the discussion can continue between interested parties.

If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the deletion warning template please remove the {{SNRV|X}} at the top of the discussion section. This will show that there is active conversation again.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list.

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Suggestions

Players inside barricaded buildings can listen to others smashing it

Timestamp:	Janjones 01:01, 21 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Role Playing, Flavor
Scope:	All players and classes
Description:	I suggest that players inside a barricaded building could listen the noise made by players smashing and tearing down the barricades. Whenever someone attacks the barricades from outside (independent if the barricade is damaged or not), the people inside should receive a message like "You listen something pounding the barricades", just to add some sense of terror and expectation to survivors inside a building.Of course the message could be disabled just like Feeding Groans, flares etc. In order to avoid spam, there should be some kind of percentage to determine if the blow will produce noise or not (something between 15% and 25%, the same chances of damaging the barricades).

Discussion (Players inside barricaded buildings can listen to others smashing it)

I think it makes some sense. But it should be a precentage chance to hear I think. I mean think about it. Sure, you can switch it off, but that would kinda defeat the purpose. But if you have it on that would be a LOT of spam in heavy attack areas.--Pesatyel 01:55, 21 October 2008 (BST)

Good point about the percentage. Janjones 02:30, 21 October 2008 (BST)

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Expanding the search button

Timestamp:	KarandaDemon 20:08, 20 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Slight improvement to existing game function.
Scope:	All players and classes.
Description:	I suggest that a new expansion for the 'Search the area' button be added. This will, at the cost of 5AP or more (I haven't decided yet, as I think nothing definite should be established yet) allow the player to 'Search Thoroughly' in a building and will add a 10-20% chance (added to the exisiting percentage chance of finding something while searching) that the player will find an item. NOTE: Actual number changes aren't definite, so any suggestions are welcome in discussion.

Discussion (Expanding the search button)

Nice idea, but the numbers will need tweaked a little for sure. I'm not one of the search odds crunchers but it does seem a bit high to me. They can give you a bit more help than I can. I'm more of a mechanics and hit rates guy. -- Cheese 20:10, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Hmm, well, I haven't given definite numbers, because I ain't no cruncher either. I should outline that in the description as up for discussion. Just to be clear. :) --KarandaDemon 20:19, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Let see. Um. 10% chance of finding something (Random current rate) compared to 30% at 5 times the cost? 0.9 chance of finding nothing 5 times is about 0.59 (O.9 to the power of 5.) So the chance of finding something is 41% as opposed to 1x30% chance of finding something through this proposal. I think. Someone want to check that? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:33, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Expected return for 5 AP spent searching for a 10% item, with no other items checked in your preferences is (1 x 0.9^5 x 0.1^0 x 0) + (5 x 0.9^4 x 0.1^1 x 1) + (10 x 0.9^3 x 0.1^2 x 2) + (10 x 0.9^2 x 0.1^3 x 3) + (5 x 0.9^1 x 0.1^4 x 4) + (1 x 0.9^0 x 0.1^5 x 5) = .50 items. Or the same as .1 (items/AP) x 5AP. No special voodoo needed. Expected return for 5 AP spent searching thoroughly for a 30% item is (1 x 0.7^1 x 0.3^0 x 0) + (1 x 0.7^0 x 0.3^1 x 1) = .30 items. Or the same as .3 (items/5AP) x 5AP. Again, no special voodoo needed. Under this suggestion for 10% items, searching thoroughly 10 times versus spending 50 AP searching would yield (on average) two fewer items. And that discrepancy will only grow as the search likelihood increases. The break-even point, incidentally, is where A = (A + B) / C. Under the above numbers (B = .2, C = 5) we can solve for A as .05. That means items found with search rates of less than 5% will be found more often when you search thoroughly. Again, that is just for the given numbers. -- Galaxy125 21:02, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Man. Thats cool! --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:03, 20 October 2008 (BST)

So AP-wise it would be a better idea just to search normally? -- Cheese 21:07, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah, obviously, apart from hyper rare below 5% find items. Pay attention cheese! There may be a test. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:09, 20 October 2008 (BST)

I'm not stupid. =p I did pass Higher maths. I'm just too lazy to read. -- Cheese 21:11, 20 October 2008 (BST)

See what happens when you eat your Wheaties? Of course, my above numbers assume that you're searching for consumables. FAKs, etc. Things where you're dedicating 5 AP to the search rather than stopping once you find one. -- Galaxy125 21:13, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Yep. After all. How many flak jackets do you need? And why do i have more than an average number of legs. I may have andered off the point somewhat. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:15, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Quick vote? I think I also forgot to mention that the 'Search thoroughly' idea would exist alongside the existing Search function, if it were ever to come into effect.--KarandaDemon 22:53, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Quick vote? Are you reading this? With what Galaxy says is this is a silly suggestion. Basically any further skills or changes in how searching happens need to be thought about a while to make things work. This will not help or work, and is not worth the time it would take to code it. - tylerisfat 23:23, 20 October 2008 (BST)

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New Newspaper Article-Length of Pipe

Timestamp:	Kolechovski 19:21, 20 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	New article
Scope:	Newspapers
Description:	I suggest a new article available to the newspapers floating around the city. As most people know, newspapers contain flavor and advice for newbies. We all know that eventually, survivors learned how to block the doors with a pipe and create a loose barricade. Maybe this info came from a batch of newspapers that was eventually discovered. The article can read as follows. It’s a quarantine information pamphlet. Citizens who are unable to build barricades can still add a layer of protection to their safehouse by jamming metal pipes between door handles.

Discussion (New Newspaper Article-Length of Pipe)

Not even role players bother reading newspapers anymore. and i don't think this justification really adds up. would someone need a newspaper to tell them to block the doors with pipe? this mixes realism with gameplay a little to blurred. thus, this is really not needed. - tylerisfat 20:44, 20 October 2008 (BST)

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XP for AP

Timestamp:	Serpentine Green 16:36, 20 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	New game concept
Scope:	All players
Description:	I hope this won't get shot down just because it involves changing the crucial 50 AP max per day but remember that Kevan states "There may eventually be character skills which modify the maximum AP and its recharge rate, but the basic starting-character settings will remain the same". Before anyone says DUPE I am aware that something similar has been discussed before. What I'm proposing, however, is by no means a way of permanently upping your daily AP quota. This will merely be a means of cashing in unwanted XP for AP at a ratio of 20 to 1. Here goes: Once per day, you may exchange 200 XP for 10 AP. Veteran players will have some reward for cashing in their surplus XP. 5000 XP will get whittled down fairly quickly if a player chooses to cash in 200 per day. Soon we'll all have the same amount of XP. Players can opt for believable character specialisation. While previously a military character, for example, will max out their military skills and then proceed onto the all the others (thereby creating a grunt that knows surgery and advanced laboratory operation) with this game mechanic in place a character may choose to expend XP on additional AP rather than skills that they do not want or are playing against type. In game terms, this new system can be described as "Concentration" to perform the skills you have learnt with greater efficiency. As you become more experienced (acquire more XP) you become more efficient at performing actions (more AP). I suggest the option only becomes available after reaching level 10 when you will have a defined character. The option to expend XP on AP would be available as a "Concentrate" button on the "Buy Skills" page.

Discussion (XP for AP)

Pretty much any suggestion that involves AP for XP training gets shot down-as it gives older players a huge advantage over newbies (when they choose to "cash in" their XP)Linkthewindow ^Talk 21:29, 20 October 2008 (BST)

One of my 3 characters could trade in all 20,000 XP and gain nearly 2 weeks AP in one go.... how exactly is that fair?--Honestmistake 00:07, 21 October 2008 (BST)

Actually, it says 200 XP once per day.--Pesatyel 02:08, 21 October 2008 (BST)

I don't see a problem with giving perks to higher level players, to an extent. Why not? Because it would hurt new players? Maybe. The thing here though is maybe it should include a penalty of some kind.--Pesatyel 02:08, 21 October 2008 (BST)

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New Class:Construction Worker

Timestamp:	Yungblood 23:23, 19 October 2008 (BST)Template:Yungblood 17:09 (EST) October 19 2008
Type:	New Civillian class
Scope:	New Survivors
Description:	What type of city doesn't have the construction worker cliche? well, this suggestion is to bring the construction worker to Malton. he starts off with the construction skill, and maybe a couple of toolboxes. this is just a another option for a variety of people.

Discussion (New Class:COnstruction Worker)

You clearly have no understanding how the game works if you think someone needs multiple toolboxes. Also dupe, but Iscariot will have the link shortly. Please read the FAQ's and frequently suggested pages if you want to continue making suggestions here. Also, please spend some time researching the data involved with your suggestion, as it gives us something more to talk about. Please check Peer reviewed and Rejected to find out if its been suggested before. - tylerisfat 23:33, 19 October 2008 (BST)

Annoying to zombies because survivors can keep on creating disposable alts that can cade a building and then meatshield, or repair a building thats 50+ap to repair without caring if their eaten afterwards. Annoying for survivors because zombies could create a few characters and overcade an entire suburb. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:57, 19 October 2008 (BST)

Zergers dream and also dupe. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:05, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Besides the ONLY difference between the classes is within the first 5 or so levels, so the game doesn't NEED new classes as they are all the same by level 6 anyway.--Pesatyel 01:07, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Actually, this isn't true: I play scientists a lot, and getting them military skills is a bitch and usually takes me a LONG time... though, it's rarely a priority with my scientists, admittedly... However, this doesn't change the fact that this suggestion is uber-zerg-abusable... Also, check out MCWU if it's a lunchboxer you're lookin' to play ;P --WanYao 09:48, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Of course its not 100% true. My point is that there are a handful of skills nearly all players go for (Free Running, Diagnosis, Body Building, Construction, Shopping and a combat related skill). Yes there is, of course, variation, partly based on what STARTING skill a player has and partly based on what the player has in mind for the character. But agreed, its relatively moot, as far as the suggestion goes.--Pesatyel 02:29, 21 October 2008 (BST)

It's a dupe anyway. Construction would be useless as a starting skill anyway-very limited XP growth potential. Linkthewindow ^Talk 02:14, 20 October 2008 (BST)

ZERGZERGZERGZERGDUPEDUPEDUPEDUPE--xoxo 04:29, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Okay, Okay, i guessed i missed that engineer class while I was looking it up, and im still fairly new to the game and wiki so i guess i missed most of these points. but i wanna make another point on how this is useless as a beginner skill. shopping is a nearly useless skill because most new civillians can't even get into a mall. so i thought it was a good idea because at least teh construction worker had some use, but you guys proved me wrong. Yungblood 7:56, 20 October 2008 (EST)

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"Did I leave the gas on?......No."

Timestamp:	RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 15:32, 19 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Tweak.
Scope:	Players of the game urban dead.
Description:	You can't talk if you are the only player at a location in urban dead. I just think you should be able to. I mean, if you're a corpse you can still hear, so why not speak when you're somewhere special? Its not as if it would bother anyone.

Discussion ("Did I leave the gas on?......No.")

I'm almost positive this is in game. Checking... yeah. I just talked to myself with corpses present. - tylerisfat 23:38, 19 October 2008 (BST)

Iwitness[1] I also just checked it with a standing zed no chance to mrh?. appears you can/can't do it with reviving bodies only present. But not if you're on your lonesome. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:55, 19 October 2008 (BST)

See how ive just screwed over an alt to prove myself? FOrgot he'd idled out in penny heights. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:59, 19 October 2008 (BST)

That sucks! - tylerisfat 08:42, 20 October 2008 (BST)

I've been meaning to bring this up for a while. You can't talk if you're the only one at a location, and you should be allowed to. Take this straight to voting, it requires no work. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:02, 20 October 2008 (BST)

You can talk to yourself if someone was at the location and moved away but then it tells you that you are talking to yourself (I think). Anyhow, I'd vote keep, we like talking to ourselves, oh yes we do. - User:Whitehouse 00:11, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Are you sure corpses can hear speech? Radios and groans, yes, but I don't remember ever hearing someone speak when I'm dead. But then again, I don't really pay much attention to what happens after I die... --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 00:15, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Corpses can't hear speech, correct. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:21, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Correct. Making this pointles. --WanYao 09:49, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Firstly it's flavourful. And would probably be the easiest implemented tweak ever. Secondly It would make the speak button static, and not another annoying box that moves around your screen. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:07, 20 October 2008 (BST)

You know, you could also suggest that corpses can hear speech... --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 11:24, 20 October 2008 (BST)

True. Its not as if they can't hear groans and radios, and would be logical. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:43, 20 October 2008 (BST)

I would vote keep if you where going to take it up for voting. Good for roleplayers or people who like wasting AP :P. Linkthewindow ^Talk 02:16, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah i agree. Voting thyme! --xoxo 04:31, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Keep!! Keep!! Imma like being crazy!!! =D -- Cheese 20:42, 20 October 2008 (BST)

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Courthouses

Timestamp:	A Big F'ing Dog 15:24, 16 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Building
Scope:	City
Description:	Malton is a big city so it makes sense it would have a few courthouses. Kevan could replace a handful of buildings around Malton with a courthouse. So the Kahn Building would become the Kahn Courthouse. Inside they could contain a few logical items like mobile phones, newspapers, and books. People would also be able to loot artwork like in a museum but the pieces would have a legal/governmental theme. "A painting of a distinguished judge", "a bust of Artistotle", "a reproduction of the Magna Carta", "a blindfolded statue of justice", "the city flag of Malton", etc. Available clothing could include judge's robes, police jackets, white shirts, ties, etc. What do you think?

Discussion (Courthouses)

Can you guess what this link is to? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 16:05, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Do you think suggesting that it basically becomes like a museum makes it different enough? The flavor thing of the building itself is the same, and who cares about the items, but that kind of art is a new idea.--A Big F'ing Dog 04:52, 17 October 2008 (BST)

It's curious that the current suggestion system does not support revising PR'd suggestions. But if the suggestion system is a think tank for UD and Kevan, you would think we'd be able to better suggestions a posteriori, and to enable multiple possible implementations of a single suggestion depending upon need. -- Galaxy125 06:24, 17 October 2008 (BST)

The suggestions system is in no way for the benefit of Kevan, it is not a think tank in any way. It is an outlet for you all to be creative/vent about issues of the game. Your opinion means fuck all. The system exists so that the wiki is not clogged up, not to assist the additions to the game. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 11:47, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Kevan has stated time and again that not only does he does look through sugestions but that he also uses some for inspiration/additional detail. A number of notable updates first saw light as suggestions including pretty much everything in the last batch. Whether Kevan was already working on them or not is a moot point. They still appear to have been motivated in some way by community suggested ideas.... Of course giving suggestions a page of its own keeps some of the chaffe from Kevans door :)--Honestmistake 15:06, 17 October 2008 (BST)

The system doesn't work though, I remind you that Ankle Grab came from Peer Rejected. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 15:09, 17 October 2008 (BST)

How does a suggestion making it into the game prove the system doesn't work? If anything it proves that kevan reads and makes his own mind up regardless of whichever clique is currently dominating suggestion votes. Hell i think most things that go through suggestions and get into game are rejects but I bet all of them had supporters and a lot of the kill/spam voters were yelling stuff about how it would unbalance the game and kill all the (insert side) The biggest problem with suggestions is not whether or not Kevan reads em but how people vote. Can we agree that there is a tendency for large numbers of voters to vote only with their favoured side in mind, indeed many vote only based on how they feel that side should play or even what browser people should use??? --Honestmistake 16:06, 17 October 2008 (BST)

I've been reading through a lot of the earlier suggestions, in part as I was looking for dupes of things the other day. And you know what? It seems people had a lot more FUN on the suggestions page back then. People could suggest major, major game-changing changes, and people would go, "that's kinda cool and interesting...why not?" But given how things changed since then, I wouldn't blame Kevan if he just read everything suggested, made up his own mind, and completely ignored the whole "peer reviewed" hoop, which now basically takes a miracle to jump through. --Jen 00:06, 18 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah we're all assholes, now clear off this page unless you're gonna abuse someone *takes out shotgun and waves it threateningly at jen* --xoxo 01:09, 19 October 2008 (BST)

Agreed. Basically the suggestion is to introduce a new theme of art, and give it through something other than a museum. It's definitely related to the other suggestion but only in one detail. --A Big F'ing Dog 14:52, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Discussion concerning this page takes place here.

Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general (including policies about it) takes place here. - tylerisfat 23:27, 19 October 2008 (BST)

Meh... to minor a theme, and not really in-genre... --WanYao 21:36, 18 October 2008 (BST)

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Scavenger

Timestamp:	JTR 12:04,16 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Skill
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	Civilian skill,players are allowed to search body's that have died weeks early that have not showed sighs of life or unlife.

Discussion (Scavenger)

FUCKING HUGE DUPE! read frequently suggested, then come back. --xoxo 07:04, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Searching dead bodies is a frequently suggested idea, the idea of only allowing it on long dead bodies is possibly new though and would be a significant enough difference to make a dupe arguable. However I suggest you search through the past suggestion to read why this will probably be killed anyway!--Honestmistake 11:51, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Yes i know it was going to die but i had to try and thanks i'll go look. --JTR 06:00, 16 October

Umm... most people stand up right on the next day. Aaand long dead bodies aren't shown as they idle out after a week. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 12:01, 16 October 2008 (BST)

5 days i think.--xoxo 12:01, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Its something like that and this would obviously need to make a change in that arrangement... something like "there are 18 bodies here, 5 of them smell strange, 3 of them are obviously long dead" I can't be bothered searching the past versions (i reckon they are rejects) but the fact that you would be looting the body of a probably ex-player might make this worth consideration especially if it were tied to a chance of becoming infected as a balance. Most of those bodies are abandoned level 1's and this would be a zergers paradise if some limit was not included perhaps it only works for corpses over a certain level, no sense realism wise but gamewise it would avoid mass creation and abandonment of privates to provide easy ammo!--Honestmistake 12:08, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Lying dead on the ground is a strategy I don't think should be punishable by having your long-kept items stolen. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 04:29, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Pretty much. This would punish carrier zombies (who probably won't get Flesh Rot until the very late game, and don't want their flak jackets stolen) and people on vacation who can't check in for some reason. Linkthewindow ^Talk 12:01, 17 October 2008 (BST)

The vacation thing is a valid point but easily negotiated by having bodies time out as normal and only become lootable after 30 days. In any event its not like its too big a deal if you lose your stuff as unless its a limited ed novelty you can just go find more.--Honestmistake 12:59, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Please, please, PLEASE read through Freq. Suggested... Thanks. --WanYao 21:36, 18 October 2008 (BST)

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Advanced Diagnosis

Timestamp:	Srdestructiveche 03:26, 16 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Skill
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	A sub-skill of surgery, players with this skill will know how to operate advanced hospital equipment and will be able to detect infection in a hospital with power.

Discussion (Advanced Diagnosis)

Why not just get whatever skill it is that lets you see infection? Some zombie one i think...--xoxo 04:43, 16 October 2008 (BST)

I don't think that carries over if you are a survivor. Linkthewindow ^Talk 06:45, 16 October 2008 (BST)

It doesn't but I am almost certain that this is a dupe anyway.--Honestmistake 11:52, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Oh yeah you're right it doesnt. Still you might as well just fak the ones on 29, 24 or lower, chances are they're infected and if they aren't they could do with a faking.--xoxo 12:03, 16 October 2008 (BST)

I'm under appreciated on this page. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:10, 16 October 2008 (BST)

hug?--Silisquish 03:37, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Only if you're pretty :D -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:54, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Big Hug...--Honestmistake 11:22, 17 October 2008 (BST)

You look like a hobbit, so sod off :P -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:54, 17 October 2008 (BST)

I don't know, you try to be nice and what does it get you? *bites the troll in the ankles and runs off to rummage through someone elses belongings for a snack*--Honestmistake 13:00, 17 October 2008 (BST)

It's pretty rare for someone to have an infection and not have at least some HP missing.--William Told 21:18, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah, so they get FAK-ed pretty quick anyway. This suggestion is a bit redundant :|. Besides, it's already a dupe. Linkthewindow ^Talk 21:40, 16 October 2008 (BST)

To be honest... with the much needed nerf to Mall FAK rates... I'd like to see something done to beef up Hospitals a little now... And/or Doctory skills... However, yup, this is a dupe and not a good idea... Basically, if someone is injured, heal them... Then you know if they were infected ;P --WanYao 21:39, 18 October 2008 (BST)

Surgery already exists, that makes them basically as efficient as the old malls were, they really don't need more benefits.--Karek^maps?! 23:09, 18 October 2008 (BST)

Wan, some people report a rise in hospital find rates over at the Search Odds page. Ether way, the find rate for malls is now 1:4 (the same as hospitals.) Linkthewindow ^Talk 00:39, 19 October 2008 (BST)

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Suggestion

Timestamp:	tylerisfat 08:36, 15 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	New Character Class
Scope:	Nubis
Description:	This is a new character class. It is ferocious on all counts. The character is called Grimch. If you choose this class for your character, you have a entire different skill set. Available skills are Annoy, flame, stir drama, cause controversy (subset skill of stir drama). The skill that a Grimch will start with is called ‘crat power, and this power gives the Grimch the ability to have XP, HP, and AP at their will. Also, whenever the Grimch is faced with any other players, he has a drop down menu, which allows him to steal all their items, remove their clothing items and replace it with a patients gown, and remove all skills and xp. With an upgrade skill, the Grimch can delete the character at will. Also, a player playing as the Grimch has a text box which is as large as he wants, and it is broadcast to every player in the entire game, zombie or survivor, and its emailed to any players who are inactive. Lastly, the only player who call kill a Grinch is himself. After offsetting the entire game for all of the other players for 2 hours, the player can commit suicide.

Discussion (Suggestion Name)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 4 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:06, 18 October 2008 (BST)

You forgot that the Kevan character class can outmaneuver Grimchs on all accounts, including their overwhelming sense of style :D --xoxo 08:56, 15 October 2008 (BST)

No, I didn't forget it... I'm just following the rules of not partnering suggestions. :) - tylerisfat 21:23, 15 October 2008 (BST)

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Blood-curdling Scream

Timestamp:	Midnight Reviver 04:58, 15 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Flavor text
Scope:	Survivors low on HP, newbies looking for people to heal, baby-z's looking for a coup d'grace,
Description:	I forgot if this was mentioned last year, but what about an announcement in buildings or on the street to the nearest 50 people when a human-player is brought down to 10 HP or less be it from a zombie attack, infection, or human attack? This will paint a bullseye on the victim as someone that needs immediate healing (or eating for up-and-coming zombies). Alternatively, this also gives humans a slim chance to foil a parachute attempt, a possible PK attempt, or even help a dying survivor with a heal. This pop-up message will give people a chance to jump to someone's aid, save the dying player any AP cost to speak, and even reduce the number of IP hits it takes to heal someone in a crowded building (you can now heal a screaming person via the FAK drop-down menu instead of expanding the name list).

Discussion (Blood-curdling Scream)

Forgive me if i misunderstand, but this seems to do exactly what diagnosis already does. Furthermore i don't want my page spammed with "john let out a blood curdling scream" "john died" etc etc.--xoxo 07:46, 15 October 2008 (BST)

Dupe - Man i've always wanted to do that... --Iscariot _{but not really}07:49, 15 October 2008 (BST)

How is this a dupe of Diagnosis? This actively notifies everyone present that someone is on low HP, a better dupe would be Feeding Drag as that notifies people that a survivor is on less than 13HP with an in game message!--Honestmistake 14:03, 15 October 2008 (BST)

People's hit points are an in game message. The message (the information of how many hit points they have) is restricted to certain people (purchasers of the skill) in the same way other in game messages are restricted (feeding groans not being available to people in buildings). You people should know by now to trust me when I say it's a dupe. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 14:11, 15 October 2008 (BST)

I do trust you, thats why I've started following your links. So far you have not dissapointed... I have not seen you make a valid dupe call yet ;)

The HP display is in game info but that is not the same as an in game event message, they are in fact fundamentally different. To argue this is not the case would be to argue that events like character death, body dumps, barricades falling and hell even taking damage are dupes as you already get notified of these things if you bother to look at the screen properly. I mean, well done for trying and everything but do you think you might be able to find a real dupe next time? --Honestmistake 14:23, 15 October 2008 (BST)

Tell you what, you put this up for voting and I'll remove it on the grounds of being a dupe of diagnosis and then you can take it to A/VB and we'll see who wins. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 14:45, 15 October 2008 (BST)

I'm not putting it up for voting... I'd wold vote kill because it would annoy me as a zed, be ignored by me as a survivor, be bloody useless to almost everyone outside of 2 or 3 very specific cases and in any event it is a partial Dupe of Feeding Drags message!--Honestmistake 14:53, 15 October 2008 (BST)

Iscariots right. Having Diagnosis means that you see the health of 50 people around you, on a street or in a building. The only difference is this would mean that it was free instead of a skill. It dupes the same effect but makes it available to all. Unless its supposed to be a new skill, which makes it the exact thing as diagnosis, but coming from the injured rather then those around. - tylerisfat 21:09, 15 October 2008 (BST)

Nowhere in the suggestion does it say it shows actual health. This suggestion gives an in game message that such and such a survivor has just reached 10HP (or less) By the time the players gets that info it could be several hours old and thus several hours out of date.... Hell most of the time the next entry on your log will probably be that he is dead! As far as I can see the suggestion is for a game mechanic change rather than a new skill.

Diagnose on the other hand is a skill and provides constant, up to date information on every survivor present. It does not give you some sort of alert in your log at any time and does not require a trigger event to function... These are pretty significant differences from the suggestion.

In comparison Feeding drag at least has some similarities. Most notably that it gives all players present a heads-up that a survivor is badly wounded. However that still isn't really a dupe because it operates in a totally different way, namely is triggered by an active players choice/action and is tells you the survivors rough HP's only because they are a function of the skill that triggers the notification. Go read the Dupe rules and tell me where I am wrong because if I am I would really like to stop having this argument.--Honestmistake 22:45, 15 October 2008 (BST)

I'm not saying they're exactly the same, but the serve the same purpose, that of identifying another players wounds. Why would someone need a skill to see how healthy they are if they don't need a skill to see that they dipped below a certain level? We're this in the game, it would significantly reduce the importance of diagnosis, as it serves the same purpose. - tylerisfat 22:59, 15 October 2008 (BST)

They really don't serve the same purpose at all. This would serve to annoy everyone (see Galaxy's comment below) whilst almost never being useful. Diagnosis on the otherhand is one of the most useful skills in the game given that it easily and unfailingly shows you who is hurt and how badly.--Honestmistake 11:59, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Bahaha HM/iscariot's exchange brought me the lulz. <3 talk:Sugg :D --xoxo 04:52, 16 October 2008 (BST)

I second that. --Honestmistake 11:58, 16 October 2008 (BST)

I can see it now. *shoot* *scream* *FAK* *shoot* *scream* *FAK* *shoot* *scream* *FAK* *shoot* *scream* *FAK* ad nauseum. Please, this isn't necessary. Survivors have wonderful in-game communication options, and need reasons to use them. -- Galaxy125 00:17, 16 October 2008 (BST)

For a less spammy and already PRed version, see horrific Handling  Swiers 20:20, 19 October 2008 (BST)

---

Humorous (Humourous) Suggestions

Timestamp:	– Nubis NWO 11:45, 13 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Page Improvement
Scope:	All Wiki Users
Description:	This page is suffering from the dreaded internet affliction Serious Business. I think it is time that we allowed a special section on this page for a lost art known as "the Humourous Suggestion" - "alternate" spelling to show how wacky it could be) Perhaps a section below the top "new suggestions" that could be just for fun. Submitting a humorous suggestion to actual voting is still forbidden, but that is no reason to ban them all together.' This page needs to be a joy to visit. It should be a "neutral" place (not Pro-Zombie or Pro-Survivor) where we can actually be a community. I see that a lot of the users are quite witty and it would be nice to see that side expressed more. Maybe some of the humorous suggestions can even be fleshed out into articles so that the kids at ALiM aren't the only ones making Malton fun. Perhaps if there was a place on here to goof off it would make conversations on the serious suggestions on more productive.--– Nubis NWO 11:45, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Discussion (Suggestion A/S/L)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 3 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:05, 18 October 2008 (BST)

Would anyone be interesting in making this place fun? Or should this page remain a potential troll cave?--– Nubis ^NWO 11:45, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Interesting, but I think this belongs in Category Talk:Suggestions, not here. Linkthewindow ^Talk 11:49, 13 October 2008 (BST)

And if anyone actually read that it would be. --– Nubis ^NWO 12:51, 13 October 2008 (BST)

I'm for this, although people can just submit their work to the humour sugg category then spam links across the wiki. For example this prime work of art by one of those kids over at ALiM ;)--xoxo 11:59, 13 October 2008 (BST)

I clicked that twice and it said bad title and didn't work. Then I took apart my mouse to make sure the clicker was working. When that still didn't work I rebooted, ran a diagnostic, and called tech support. I am on hold now waiting for Hajiminiheri to return and help me out. When he comes back I will tell you what I think about that link.--– Nubis ^NWO 12:54, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Link fix3d -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 13:03 13 October 2008 (BST)

Lol. I can't believe that Dr Crook guy thought I was even remotely serious. I was just a noob who didn't know humourous suggestions existed at this point. The best part was the people telling me how shit it was, thinking that I claimed some sort of pride in a suggestion that took me literally as long to write, as it takes for one to read. What a night. Peer pressure hey.--CyberRead240 13:29, 13 October 2008 (BST)

I loved that suggestion! That's the kind of thing I am talking about. It was fun to read. You shouldn't have put it up for voting, but still it would suck to lose an idea like that because you have no place to put it. --– Nubis ^NWO 14:28, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Given how dead the main suggestion page is these days I wouldn't be against putting humorus (sic) onto that page.... as long as it was marked as such and the votes got tallied into a category of their own.--Honestmistake 12:59, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Wat? So that people can ridicule other suggesters, that they take a dislike to, by using biting (read "insulting") satire, like the goons did on this page? Yeah, that was fun... not -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 13:03 13 October 2008 (BST)

You prefer the personal attacks in a serious suggestion? In the case of the goons it was just against one particular suggestion. They weren't making mocking suggestions of every user or in fact any other user. And that was a flame war from both sides - you did see the template war on Grim's talk page right? Since there was no section to put it in to mark it as "mocking/humor" it was looked at like a real suggestion and that also fueled the problem. If it had been in a humor section serious posters probably wouldn't have even given it the time of day.--– Nubis ^NWO 14:23, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Do I prefer personal attacks on serious suggestions? No. Do I want another avenue for personal attacks to be tacked on to the current suggestion system? Hell No! Of course it was a two way flame war... but rather one sided, and pathetic, and would have went away much quicker, and been far less ugly, if the goons hadn't been free to place multiple mock "suggestions" on this page (Talk:Suggestions) satirising the suggestions they didn't like. And you want to free the main suggestions system up to allow such stalking, bullying... unfunny humour? Sure, I think our current treatment of humourous suggestions is a bit over the top, but unless you can come up with a way to avoid the bullying, while allowing legitimately (at least in intent) humour, then I wouldn't like to see this introduced. The suggestions system is first and foremost intended to bring serious game improvements to Kevans attention, IMO, fun and participation come second. If people really wanted to read humourous suggestions, then the humourous suggestions section would be more popular than it is -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 14:50 13 October 2008 (BST)

Okay, good point about the real suggestion page but putting fun stuff on this page would be harmless. The current humourous section is rarely visited because people do not know it exists. I would say a rule to prevent the same person posting pointless, unfunny crap constantly would be needed... (perhaps even a 1 week posting ban for each suggestion voted as unfunny?) but this wiki needs a more light hearted atmosphere.--Honestmistake 14:57, 13 October 2008 (BST)

There isn't a restriction, here on Talk:Suggestions, on humourous suggestions, even pathetic, trolling ones, so I'm assuming Nubis is talking about opening up Category:Suggestions to humourous suggestion (and the problems associated with it). And quite frankly, for Nubis to suggest that there isn't enough fun in the suggestions section, when he openly supported (without actually ruling, check the link) that trolling is laughable. That goony invasion, fully supported by Grim and Nubis, where they insulted anyone they deemed stupid on Talk:Suggestions is one of the main reasons I gave up on this page as a bad joke. Talk:Suggestions was supposed to be a place to point newbies to, so they could make their (frankly) stupid suggestions where they wouldn't "offend" anyone without the patience to explain why, in a non-insulting manner, it was stupid. That was killed off by the "OMG, free speech" insulters -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 17:03 13 October 2008 (BST)

I was talking about making a section on this page that below it funny suggestions could go. That way when people look at the table of contents they can pick which type of suggestions they go to. The problem with the "trolling" suggestion was that this page has an insane OVERLY IMPORTANT ATTITUDE that it quite frankly doesn't deserve nor live up to. The reason I even made this a suggestion is because I knew if I just made a header for it someone would come along and spout out about how this page is SERIOUS and that humorous suggestions are only going to be trolling suggestions even though the link above is clearly not trolling and is quite funny. (link in J3D's comment)

No, I didn't rule on the goon suggestion because 1. it was funny in context, 2. I try to avoid appearing too biased for the goons so I step out of some situations involving them, and 3. we do have a little thing called free speech here and it would be great if there was actually a place to practice it.

This page SHOULD NOT be a place to point newbies. Newbies are the WORST people to have contribute to a game since they are NEW to it. That's why this page is littered with GUNS, AMMO, SNIPERS, NIGHT VISION/X-RAY and VEHICLES. Maybe if there was a section making fun of those types of suggestions and newbies knew it was mocking them they wouldn't make them in earnest so often.

And let's be honest, the nailgun to break skylights on dark buildings is just as ridiculous as horses or overkilling a dead body. --– Nubis ^NWO 01:10, 14 October 2008 (BST)

Of course this is the page to point newbies to. Face the fact that newbies are going to want to make suggestions before they understand the game dynamics fully. It's human nature. That's what this page is for, to keep them off Category:Current Suggestions, and give us somewhere to point them to where they should be able to get rational reasons why their noobish suggestions arn't workable or desirable. Anyone who can't handle having to constantly explain why crucifixes should be useless, just like in real life, shouldn't bother with this page. Making a special section for humourous suggestions on this page is not desirable, because they are already allowed. Oh, and that goonie suggestion wasn't funny, because the context was that they'd already made about half a dozen mocking nailgun suggestions beforehand. It was just bullying bullshite -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:03 14 October 2008 (BST)

I'm actually a huge fan of how few suggestions are on this page and the voting page right now. I'm a huge fan of people actually thinking about what they're posting. And I'm a huge fan of comedy, but go find it somewhere else. This is a wiki, not a comedy club. the point is not for your entertainment, but to provide a community concerned with improving, documenting, and teaching about the game. The suggestions page is not a place for laughs, and the only reason the humorous suggestion page exists is so people respect the serious page. We don't need to encourage it. - tylerisfat 03:47, 14 October 2008 (BST)

People don't respect this as a serious suggestion page. If they did they would take the time to read the SD/DN or the Frequently Suggested page. It's clear by all of the suggestions that are repeated that they don't. Iscariot is constantly finding dupes that show many posters don't bother to even look. Wan is repeating himself constantly explaining why many of these ideas fail (and have failed in the past) Grim even had a template to address many of these crappy suggestions.

Part of being a community is having fun since this is a wiki about a game. Let's look at the last few improvements Kevan actually added to the game. Did they come from here? Did someone suggest dark buildings on here? Or that ruined buildings were harder to repair? And if someone had suggested the latter do you think the survivor biased wiki would have moved it into peer reviewed? What about all of the suggestions that are in peer review that aren't implemented?

If this wiki is just for information and teaching then all of the user pages, group pages, ALiM, discussion pages, and so on should be removed (as metagaming is not really the game - hence meta). The only informative pages relating directly to the game are ones on items, skills, search rates, and the map. Let's face it. This is a very simple game.

Most of the location pages wouldn't exist in their current form since realistically most of the content on them doesn't apply to the real game. Why outlaw humor on just this part of the wiki? I think some of you are confusing this page with actual active in voting suggestions. This page is not a dry run for voting. Dumb humorous suggestions would be ignored as much as dumb serious suggestions and would naturally cycle off.

However the RARR RARRR THIS IS A SERIOUS PAGE attitude drives away many users. It also fuels the "trolling" because of the attitude that everything on this page is destined to be added to the game. As we can see that isn't the case. Maybe if we lighten up the attitude on this page it can spread to the rest of the wiki.--– Nubis ^NWO 04:18, 14 October 2008 (BST)

Lighten up what attitude? Humourous suggestions are allowed, even if there isn't a section for them. It seems that most people are confused what you are suggesting here. There's a difference between posting funny stuff here, and on Category:Current Suggestions -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:03 14 October 2008 (BST)

Humourous suggestions are allowed on this page. Putting them up for voting breaches the suggestions guidelines and results in a VB escalation for the idiot responsible. The reason many of the users of this page are called trolls by the sysop team is because we are tired of having to repeat ourselves again and again and again and again. I could probably write a list of responses today that I could use over the next month, the cycle is that predictable. We could of course update Frequently Suggested, but no fucker reads previous suggestions and they certainly don't read FS. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:14, 14 October 2008 (BST)

For the record, I don't consider you, Wan or DCC trolls on this page for the sheer fact that I do actually read what you guys say instead of just jumping to the conclusion that it is a personal attack and that you guys don't understand the immense genius of the poster. I was even tracking some of the new "Frequently Suggested" suggestions for a while. You are right, we do need to update the list though.--– Nubis ^NWO 14:26, 14 October 2008 (BST)

"For the record, I don't consider you, Wan or DCC trolls on this page" - Really? Quod erat demonstrandum. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 14:39, 14 October 2008 (BST)

Thats pretty funny. - tylerisfat 19:35, 14 October 2008 (BST)

Just face it: people don't come here to read humorous suggestions. Putting humorous suggestions here is just going to annoy people, people that might otherwise have reacted differently to them. It's also going to make the size-problems worse. No, I think a better solution would be to increase the visibility of humorous suggestions in some other way. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 08:02, 14 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah maybe if the stardard of humourous suggestions improved 2 Cool would be inclined to spam the link around the wiki...--xoxo 11:15, 14 October 2008 (BST)

I dunno, can they fit it on that insane nav template? You may need to have a note that the bar is best viewed in 18300 x 24500 resolution with a gajillion colors enabled. Pretty soon loading a page with that bar on it will flash tan all users because of how big and bright it is.--– Nubis ^NWO 14:34, 14 October 2008 (BST)

The problem isn't community reception, it's the lack of leeway the system has before it fails. Creating a new and separate system won't help, it'll just create new and exciting problems and create a division where people will go to the new system as it would be 'nicer' for their feedback and then put it into the main system. This page will become redundant and the problems won't be fixed. There needs to be a different approach. If I ever get around to writing my massive policy project I have a few ideas for fixing this. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:04, 14 October 2008 (BST)

Nubis, I'm not sure what your point is. Do you want this to be taken seriously? Because humorous suggestions won't help that for shit. Or do you want it to just go down the tubes? Why do we need to make it inviting? If people have any good idea's, we work it out, and if they don't, then why have them here? - tylerisfat 19:48, 14 October 2008 (BST)

---

Barricade Decay

Timestamp:	KOOKY 12:09, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Improvement.
Scope:	Barricades.
Description:	Change In Game Mechanic. RP Reason: Barricades in dark buildings that are not constantly repaired by survivors decay over time. This would mean that every 12 hours all barricades in dark buildings would lose one level of barricade, eg go from Very Heavily Barricade to Heavily Barricaded. This is deliberately quite a big gap to create the atomosphere of survivors desperately trying to maintain barricades. Whilst since it only effects dark buildings, (Banks, Cinemas, Clubs and Fort Armouries) and then only if they have no generator it wont be cripperling to survivors.

Discussion (Barricade Decay)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 5 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:03, 18 October 2008 (BST)

No! Epic Survivor Nerf!--Mianthadore 13:20, 11 October 2008 (BST)]

Look, first of all please don't respond like that again, it is hardly constructive. Secondly, of course it is a change, however I think it is a good change, yes it will make UD harder for survivors, that is the point, but hard does not equal bad. Hard often equals funner. If you think that UD should be easy, and that playing a survivor should be easy then I believe you are wrong. Personally I have the best time playing a survivor when its about 60% red and orange suburbs, and even though of course being a survivor I want 'Every last zed dead', as a player I couldn't think of anything worse. --KOOKY 13:50, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Interesting idea, but dark buildings are quite uncommon. I don't think it's a survivor nerf as EHB-VSB in 24 hours isn't THAT bad (and thats assuming no-one is recading,) and dark buildings are a massive nerf for zombies anyway. Linkthewindow ^Talk 22:28, 11 October 2008 (BST)

It would be EHB-HB in 24 hours. -- kooks 11 October 2008 (BST)

Why? why would this happen? If it takes the zombies doing something to cause the building to become ransacked and ruined, then why should it require to effort for the cades to start collapsing? no thank you. - tylerisfat 23:53, 11 October 2008 (BST)

I don't quite understand your response. But if you are saying it is not realistic, well that is abit silly, considering this is a game about zombies..and that it is entirely realistic that barricades would collapse if not looked after properly. -- kooks 11 October 2008 (BST)

• yawn* the "zombie's aren't real" counterargument is bullshit. WITHIN THE CONTEXT of the game, zombies ARE real. And Maltron is SET IN THE REAL WORLD, therefore the mechanics of reality ARE REAL. And, no, it is NOT "entirely realistic" that barricades would collapse on their own.--Pesatyel 00:18, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah. What pesatyel says sums it up. And Kooks, what i was saying is... this suggestion doesn't make sense, within the context of the game in place. The things that give the game its structure does not lend itself to the barricades just collapsing. Your suggesting that within a 12 hour period that things skillfully constructed just spontaneously start collapsing, regardless of how much effort that it currently takes zombies to knock those same barricades down. Thus, this suggestion is crap, thats all there is too it. You can argue the specifics of "Its not that much, its a reasonable set of numbers" or whatever, but it still plainly doesn't make sense, nor does it aide or add to any game play. So it will not pass, nor should it pass. Its not even workable. - tylerisfat 08:43, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Allowing barricades to decay fully isn't realistic, as the vending machines, chairs, desks, etc. will still be there and would need to be moved out of the way. However, the game already contains the idea that barricades contain "levels." If barricaded above VSB+2, then survivors can't enter, and all that jazz. This suggestion stands a greater likelihood of passing if barricade decay was restricted to a certain level. Like, from the upper area of Barricade...decays go to the minimum barricade level of their strength at a rate of a level per 12 hours. -- Galaxy125 20:35, 12 October 2008 (BST)

Mmm, good point, I thought about whether there should be a minimum point where it stops decaying, perhaps QSB +2. I'm not really concerned with it passing, I would prefer it to be a good suggestion, rather than "dumbed down" so that it passes. --kooks 12 October 2008 (BST)

Just to clarify, "Dark Decay (Galaxy125's change)" would reduce VSB+2 to VSB (or EHB+2 to EHB, or LiB+2 to LiB) in 24 hours in dark buildings, but no further decay. Loosely barricaded dark buildings would not decay. EHB+4 would go to EHB in 48 hours. In terms of flavor, this would be because the darkness of the buildings prevents the materials from being stacked in a stable manner unless the constructor puts on the "final touches" which bring it up to the next strength level. Like, a nail or two in the right place. The point of this would be simply to help balance the dark building survivor buff. -- Galaxy125 01:44, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Oh, and although no hard data exists on barricading in dark buildings (at least in the wiki), we can extrapolate that (if the building remains dark prior to rebarricading) rebarricading up to EHB+2 from EHB would require at least 10 AP, on average. From VHB to VHB+2 would require at least 5 AP. From HB to HB+2 would require at least 3 AP, on average. Et cetera. So implementing my change would punish survivors who keep dark buildings at EHB more heavily than those who keep them at VSB. -- Galaxy125 01:44, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Not quite an "EPIC SURVIFOR NERV," but nerf-y enough to not have a chance at passing--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 20:42, 12 October 2008 (BST)

I don't really understand whats wrong with it being nerf-y. It also isn't anywhere as nerf-y as I would like it to be, ideally I would like to see decay effecting all buildings from levels say ehb-vsb. However, since it only effects dark buildings it only effects four building types, and only if they don't have a generator. --kooks 12 October 2008 (BST)

Think about it this way, how often does the stuff on your bookshelf, for example, just "fall over" of its own accord? It doesn't. SOMETHING has to cause it to fall. The point of the Construction skill is that you are knowledgeable in HOW to stack crap so it DOESN'T fall apart. Otherwise any asshole could do it without a skill (hmmm....). If stacked objects are left unnattended for a prolong time...they will stay stacked UNLESS they physically deteriorate (organic matter decomposing, metal material rusting, etc.). And I might add that the Construction skill already compensatates for "weakness" whe building the barricade (above VS).--Pesatyel 00:18, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Put it this way, Malton has been quarantined for two years, its incredible that there are still beds, chairs and other objects left in Malton, after all when a barricade is destroyed persumably so is the furniture, does IKIA airdrop furniture into Malton? Anyway, it doesn't need to be 100% realistic, it just needs to be realistic enough so that you can suspend your disbelief, which was what I was getting at with my earlier comment about zombies. Does it really take six or so shotgun blasts to kill someone? No. Does it take around 17 axe blows to kill someone? No. Does it matter? No. --Kooks 16:53, 13 October 2008 (BST)

not needed... addresses no problem or "hole" ... feh. --WanYao 10:29, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Its clearly marked as an improvement, designed to you know, improve UD.--Kooks 16:53, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Zombies don't really care about dark buildings because of their nerfy-ness and because they aren't resource buildings that need to be held. If you are going to make barricades decay naturally then where is the incentive for zombies to play? I know that attacking barricades sucks, but if they can stand around and let them rot why even bother wasting the AP to attack them? As Wan ^^^. P.S. statements like Look, first of all please don't respond like that again, it is hardly constructive. usually invite more "non constructive" comments because people realize it bothers you. --– Nubis ^NWO 11:09, 13 October 2008 (BST)

It isn't so much designed at zombies as it is designed at survivors, it is mean to make it harder for survivors to keep the barricades up.--Kooks 16:53, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Yes, but it is lowering the cades on pointless buildings. Buildings that no one really cares about.--– Nubis ^NWO 01:16, 14 October 2008 (BST)

And what the hell suburbs are you looking at? Tapton? In the real thick of things, barricades barely do there job as is, in attempting to retake suburbs. Even with highly mobile, highly connected strikes it is nearly impossible to stay alive in one suburb for more then a day or two. Adding this is would just be an annoyance, and thats all. - tylerisfat 03:22, 14 October 2008 (BST)

---

Fires

Timestamp:	--Target Practice 03:00, 7 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Event
Scope:	All buildings
Description:	Generators are usually full of fairly combustible fuel. There are a lot of stupid people around, and a lot of live ammunition. Sooner or later, it's going to happen. Firstly, let me state that I am aware that this has been suggested and met with varying degrees of success before, and I'm looking to improve on those ideas. To save the dupetrolls some effort finding the links, here's the best of the bunch: Suggestions/8th-Nov-2005#Fire.21 Now, the idea is, whenever a generator is destroyed, there is a small (let's say 5% for starters) chance it will ignite and catch fire. The fire causes the following effects: blinding smoke - the thick black smoke from the fire makes it difficult to see, giving -50% to hit and 50% search penalties to all inside the building until the fire is extinguished. fire damage - if a fire burns for 24 hours, the building suffers fire damage and basically becomes a ruin, albeit with slightly different text for flavour purposes: - "you are inside the xxxx building - it has been gutted by fire, and the charred remains of [whatever the building is likely to have contained] cover the floor." or something to that effect. If this happens, any barricades that were up are destroyed, regardless of level (to stop people creating pinatas too easily), as well as any decorations that may have been up. To clarify, once the fire has burned for 24 hours, the building becomes an empty ruin, just with different flavour text. I've resisted the temptation to add any kind of 'burn' damage to anyone inside the building, as I know that will get this idea shot down faster than a Blackhawk over Basra. There will also be some kind of flavour text that is shown when outside the building to indicate a fire: "you are outside the xxxx building - [normal building description] - thick black smoke is pouring from the missing windows, and a strong burning smell fills the air" Survivors who are in the building at the time a fire breaks out have a 'charred' or 'singed' modifier to any clothes they are wearing, eg: "X is wearing a blood-spattered leather jacket, a charred and bloodstained green t-shirt, and a singed pair of jeans" In order to stop fires nerfing survivors and turning GKing into a mall griefer's wet dream, fires can be extinguished with the new item 'fire extinguisher' (surprise surprise!), which can be found in fire stations (8-10%), warehouses (2-3%), auto repair shops (2-3%), and mall hardware stores (5-6%). The fire extinguisher has a 16% encumbrance penalty, and can be used five times before expiry. It can be used as a makeshift weapon, and has the same to hit percentages as a toolbox. (25% with h2h combat, 2 damage.) When used on a fire, there is a 30% chance of extinguishing the blaze - the user sees the text: "You aim the extinguisher at the blaze and pull the trigger - the fire dies away, leaving only glowing embers" -this uses 5AP. If the attempt fails, the message "you aim the extinguisher at the blaze and and pull the trigger, but the fire continues to burn." - this also uses both 5AP and one of the extinguisher's uses. That's pretty much it - I know there's a lot of text there, but I wanted to provide enough detail to prove I'd actually thought this through and show that it could genuinely be an interesting game event. Plus it would actually give a point to GKing other than being a minor inconvenience/annoyance.

Discussion (Fires)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 5 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:01, 18 October 2008 (BST)

Nice idea, but I have a few problems. Firstly, at a 5% hit rate, this is just a minor inconvenience for survivors. Assuming a generator at a target is attacked once a day (a fairly liberal estimate for most buildings, fairly conservative for TRP's) that means that you would be lucky to start one blaze a fortnight. Maybe up it to around 10%?

Also, 16 weight is quite a bit-and in real life, a fire extinguisher is not likely to take up a huge amount of space (Sure, there are big ones, but you would think that you would loot a small one?) I'm all for the five shots per extinguisher, but having a hit rate of 30% is too little. Ether up the hit rate to around ~50%, or add a skill that brings it up (firefighting?) Like the flavor text though.

Finally, how do these behave in large buildings? If someone starts a fire in a NW corner of a mall, does it spread to the other corners? Linkthewindow 08:11, 7 October 2008 (BST)

Cheers for the feedback, it's appreciated.

Firstly, the fairly low chance of a fire starting is intentional. As someone said in the discussion for one of the previous incarnations of this suggestion, this game is about humans fighting zombies in an abandoned city, not humans fighting fires in an abandoned city - I want fires to be infrequent enough to be an interesting event that will require fairly prompt action from the affected survivors rather than a genuine threat or pain in the ass to them. Plus, I'm guessing if there was one every 20 minutes, it would quickly get irritating.

As for the fire extinguisher, once again, that heavy encumbrance is deliberate. In an urban zombie infestation, a fire extinguisher is not going to be among the first things you'd be looking to carry around with you, and I quite like the idea of survivors having to frantically search for a fire extinguisher to stop their HQ from burning to the ground. However, as with anything in the suggestion, if enough people disagree with it, I'm willing to change it. The success percentage is perhaps a touch on the low side, but I initially went with 50% and rejected it as I felt it was a bit too high. Maybe middle ground at 40% (or perhaps even modify the 'Axe Proficiency' skill to be some kind of 'Firefighter' skill as you suggested, which would encompass both a higher hit rate with the axe AND the higher success rate with the fire extinguisher.)

With regards to your last point, I'm actually quite embarrassed to admit that I hadn't thought of that - I think in practice, this is representing relatively small fires, and as malls are fairly popular targets for GKers, GKing a mall could become a genuine tactic for PKers/death cultists - think about it - if you destroy the generator and it catches fire, the zeds outside can bring down the barricades, pour into the building knowing that the survivors are going to have to spend twice as much AP to evict them, then wait for either someone to fix it or for the building to fall into ruin, before launching their own attacks on the survivors at normal hit percentages. Perhaps if a corner of a mall burns for 24 hours (and hence becomes a ruin), then the fire could spread to the adjacent corners of the building, as if the survivors inside are dumb/selfish enough to let a fire burn for 24 hours without doing anything about it, then they deserve everything they get.

As I said, I really appreciate the constructive feedback. I've altered the suggestion a little (basically clarifying what happens when the building becomes a ruin), and will probably look at taking on board a couple of your ideas when I revise this after a few more suggestions. --Target Practice 08:58, 7 October 2008 (BST)

honestly, i think just the cade part is a strong enough penalty, and having to carry that big of an awkward fire extinguisher is even harsher. adding anything else is just auto-spam crap. - tylerisfat 05:25, 8 October 2008 (BST)

Okay, probably a good point, and that's now two people that have suggested the Extinguisher is a bit heavy - how about 8% encumbrance? As it stands right now, how would you vote? --Target Practice 06:13, 8 October 2008 (BST)

I would vote kill. I pretty much hate any suggestion that suggests a new item, new game effect, and huge penalties that will drastically change seige situations. - tylerisfat 21:19, 8 October 2008 (BST)

Malton has already felt the fury of a Great Fire --xoxo 05:58, 8 October 2008 (BST)

Fire!...-FIRE! _■^■ 08:19, 9 October 2008 (BST)

Subtle. Nice. --– Nubis ^NWO 11:23, 13 October 2008 (BST)

- "Firstly, let me state that I am aware that this has been suggested and met with varying degrees of success before, and I'm looking to improve on those ideas. To save the dupetrolls some effort finding the links, here's the best of the bunch: Suggestions/8th-Nov-2005#Fire.21" - that was the same one I linked to. ;) --Target Practice 15:40, 9 October 2008 (BST)

So anyone who uses the dupe system as intended is a troll according to you? I'm seeing your future....I'm seeing none of your suggestions ever making peer reviewed.... -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 15:45, 9 October 2008 (BST)

No, the users who consistently reject everything they don't like as a dupe or spam without even reading the suggestion are trolls. Admittedly this is a suggestion regarding fires, but if you read the two suggestions, they're not even remotely similar in execution. --Target Practice 15:53, 9 October 2008 (BST)

I'm a dupetroll...? _■^■ 04:31, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah! How dare you use the rules set in place to prevent stupid, useless suggestions! We are all unique and special snowflakes, so coddle us now! - tylerisfat 23:50, 11 October 2008 (BST)

WTF? if it's a dupe, it's a dupe. deal with it.--xoxo 05:49, 11 October 2008 (BST)

But the fact is that it's NOT a dupe. I don't particularly like the suggestion, but nothing close to it has been suggested before. --Jen 02:07, 13 October 2008 (BST)

How exactly is it a dupe though? Whilst it is a suggestion regarding fires, if you bother to read the other suggestions regarding fire, you'll find this has next to nothing in common with them apart from probably the word 'fire' and likely the fire extinguisher item. Just because an idea has been shot down (or even peer reviewed) in one incarnation, should that mean that all future ideas in that area, no matter how different to the original, should be automatic dupes? Of course not, but that's what some people seem to be getting at here. I have no problem with any of my suggestions being called 'dupe' if they genuinely are, as there's a hell of a lot of suggestions on here, and no-one (excluding possibly Iscariot) has enough free time on their hands to have read every single one. --Target Practice 13:45, 14 October 2008 (BST)

It's nothing to do with having free time, it's about respecting the system enough to actually read through the archives and then remembering what you've read. If I had any free time to give to this wiki we'd have a load of draconian policies passing. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:52, 14 October 2008 (BST)

Not intended as an insult there - was more along the lines of a tip of the hat to the number of suggestions you've read, or at least managed to find in the archives. Anyhow, let's be honest - dupe or no dupe, this one is now pretty much dead in the water, so I won't waste any more time revising or submitting it. -Target Practice 14:03, 14 October 2008 (BST)

The question you should ask is, hey, this suggestion is some form has been suggested, and no one liked it. I have some idea's along the same concept. Then put it here. And if we still say its a dupe, that means we, as people seperate from your ideas and without your own generousity to your genius, will decide whether its a dupe. If we see it as the same, even if you see a HUGE difference, probably means that the only reason you see it that way is because its your idea. I'd be willing to bet that a die hard fan of N'Sync can rage for hours about how different they are from the Backstreet Boys, but from an outside observer, they both suck equal. Does that make since? - tylerisfat 19:45, 14 October 2008 (BST)

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"Ignore this Voice"

Timestamp:	Swiers 19:52, 5 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	improvement
Scope:	radios / radio broadcasts
Description:	Net to every radio broadcast and speech, there would be a button that says "Ignore this Voice". The code for the button would contain an "encrypted" version of the broadcaster's user ID, or other reference that the server could use but which would NOT reveal the broadcasters ID. Clicking the button would ad that user ID to a list stored on the server for your character; if an ID is on this list, you never hear radio broadcasts or speech from that character. As a player, you would never be able to see this list. The list would have a limited length (50 voices or so) and adding new voices "to the top" would bump old ones of the bottom. In your settings, you would have the option to have the list active (ignoring those voices & their broadcasts), inactive (listening to all voices & broadcasts you can normally hear), or to clear the list completely as you change your settings.

Discussion ("Ignore this Voice")

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 6 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:00, 18 October 2008 (BST)

So if i'm ignoring a player its as if they aren't even talking? - tylerisfat 22:30, 5 October 2008 (BST)

Yep. It would have exactly the same effect as the "ignore contact" setting in the contacts list, except the character is not a contact, and you don't even need to know who they are- just that anything said by that voice isn't worth listening to.  Swiers 23:06, 5 October 2008 (BST)

Heck, why not? The only problem with this is what if you meet the player later on, become friends, and never realize that you have them radio-blocked? Perhaps there should be a (player-set) expiry. Spam which is obviously coming from the same person could be set to dodge this. Linkthewindow 23:14, 5 October 2008 (BST)

In order for this idea to work it would need to be kept very simple so i'm against Link's expiry etc. Also, the people you wanna block are douche bag's who spend all their ap spamming the radio (speaking of which is real gamer still at his lulz?) so it's not really an issue anyway. I quite like the idea assuming it's logistically possible. Although you should only be able to ignore them over the radio, if they talk to you in person you shouldn't be aware that it's the same person and should hear their comments as normal (explantion = people sound dif on the radio or whatever).--xoxo 00:39, 6 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah... we need this. --WanYao 20:12, 6 October 2008 (BST)

Wan's right, bring this on somehow. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:54, 8 October 2008 (BST)

Are you going to submit this Swiers? It's been a while. Linkthewindow ^Talk 22:30, 11 October 2008 (BST)

This is a good idea --A Big F'ing Dog 18:27, 15 October 2008 (BST)

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Suggestions up for voting

Door and Barricade Buttons Switch Places

Suggestion is up for voting. Discussion moved to Suggestion talk:20081008 Door and Barricade Buttons Switch Places. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 09:52, 8 October 2008 (BST)

Wear and Tear

Suggestion is up for voting. Discussion moved to Suggestion talk:20081008 Wear and Tear.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:41, 8 October 2008 (BST)

Useless use for the Crucifix

Suggestion is up for voting. Discussion moved to here. Linkthewindow ^Talk 11:19, 17 October 2008 (BST) Note: This was William Told's suggestion. He forgot update this section and move the talk across, so I did it for him.

Save Monroeville

Suggestion is up for voting. Discussion moved to here. Linkthewindow ^Talk 11:31, 17 October 2008 (BST) As above, this was Super Nweb's suggestion. He forgot to move the discussion across.