Suggestion:20070521 Degenerating Flak Jackets

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	This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Peer Rejected.

20070521 Degenerating Flak Jackets

--BlackScarletLove 05:35, 21 May 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type
Improvement.

Suggestion scope
All players.

Suggestion description

Since flak jackets cannot degenerate, this is frustrating because you know that every time you hit a player with a firearm you will not be hitting them to the full effect, no matter how many times you hit them. You also spend needless AP finding extra FJs that you have to discard, because you get no more protection with extras. Besides, what good are FJ's to survivors except TK protection? They only really come into effect and use for zombies, who don't need protection anyway, as death is incidental, and they can just get back up.

It would be good if the FJs degenerated, and after a certain amount of hits (say 10) become useless. This is realistic. It would add a new level of play to the game where it is effective to have more than one, as a reserve, like FAKs, as well as having to continually find more to keep yourself protected (in the same way that you need to constantly search for more ammo). It would also ease frustration to the shooter, because they know that after a maximum of shots, they will be able to score full damage, and anticipate that eagerly.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. I am the author and I am putting in my one allowed keep vote. ;) --BlackScarletLove 05:44, 21 May 2007 (BST)
2. Keep - rotters shouldn't use flak jackets in the first place. - BzAli 08:45, 21 May 2007 (BST)
3. keep Armour should degenerate or should be taken out of the game... currently its only purpose is to annoy survivors and help zeds. Zeds don't need that kinda help and no-one needs to be annoyed by something they do for fun! Best solution would be to double its effectiveness but limit it to 10 hits at which point it becomes damaged flak and works as normal for another 10 before becoming destroyed flak. you should not be able to carry a spare but should always upgrade to the undamged one if you find another! --Honestmistake 10:40, 21 May 2007 (BST)
4. Keep - although I think that 10 hits is too few (guns are underpowered in Malton... one shot gun blast would do me in, I figure), it's a good idea. It will encourage a less mall-centric game, and it's just another minor drawback to rotters (death doesn't mean that much to zombies anyway) -- boxy ^{T L ZS Nuts2U DA} 10:58, 21 May 2007 (BST)
5. Keep - Makes it realistic and more happier for survivors since most of the time, they use firearms --JudeMaverick ^{W! TJ! Talk Zzz... P!} 11:12, 21 May 2007 (BST)
6. Change To help both zeds and survivors, I say that the flak jacket gets weaker after so many shots. Right now, it takes of 20%. After ten shots, it should be lowered to say, 10%. Pistols would do their original five damage, shotguns would be increased to nine. Now it's only effective against people with shotguns. Maybe it's just me, but I don't tend to use a shotgun all the time for any battle. As for zeds complaining, like the author said, death isn't too big of a trouble. Besides that, in my change the flak jacket still has some effectiveness. And in my opinion, zeds shouldn't even be wearing flaks. --Heavy DDR 13:13, 21 May 2007 (BST)
7. Change - I'm sick of reading about how unfair it is for zombies to lose the massive protection of flak jackets: Zombies do not die, ever! The worst thing that can happen to them is being headshot, after which they just jump up with full health. They do not need an eternal 20% shield against firearms, no matter how much bleating there is about the rotters being deprived of armour. Suggestions are shot down all the time for being 'out of genre', so I ask you this: Is it actually 'in genre' for the shambling undead to think 'Gee, I could really use a flak jacket. Maybe I should get myself brought back to life so I can get one, and then kill myself so I can wake up with it on'? Sure, let them do it, but if someone is a zombie purist and opts for the Rot, fair play to them, and fair play across the game. Flak jackets are supposed to be a human item, yet they are of little help to humans. You can cite PKing all you want, but that's relatively rare and for all the supposed help that FJs are in defending against PKers, they are also a help to PKers in defending themselves against reprisals. Frankly, between the massive number of zombies and relatively few PKers, I'll take my chances with the PKers. All that said, I think that 10 hits is too low and it needs to be significantly higher. --The Hierophant 14:58, 21 May 2007 (BST)
8. Change - I think this is a wonderful bit of realism, as there is simply no way a flak jacket would stand up to twenty repeated shotgun blasts and still be 100% effective. I agree with HeavyDDR's suggestion of a gradual decrease in the jacket's effectiveness. As for brain rotters having problems obtaining these once they've worn out, I would say "too bad". If it falls off, honestly, that's too bad. --Davurnium 16:18, 21 May 2007 (BST)
9. Keep/Change - Good Suggestion! However, 10 shots is about how much a single death is. I would change it to 50 or 100. Think about it, those jackets are made tough, you'd still get some use out of it after 10 shots... unless you shot all in the same place.... I mean, if you think about it, headshots shoudln't be effected by Flak Jackets in the first place.... StarDolphin 17:05, 21 May 2007 (BST)
10. Keep/Change - as above. destroyal after 10 hits is too fast. i'm not agaist of idea, though --Duke Garland_T^{LCD SSZ} 20:44, 21 May 2007 (BST)
11. Keep/Change - I agree with Heavy DDR's change, and make them degenerative, otherwise, this is a great idea. --[[User:Wofiel|Wofiel] 20:18, 22nd of May (Central Aust Standard Time)
12. Keep What's all this crap about the poor defenseless rotters? It makes no sence that zombies would get revived get a flak jacket and kill themselves anyway.--Wee Sonny MacGregor 18:15, 22 May 2007 (BST)
13. Keep - I like it. Ten shots to destroy a flak jacket sounds fine to me. Especially if its with a shotgun. --Sonofagun18 10:34, 2 June 2007 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - 10 hits is too low. This would require a zombie to get revived and find a new flak jacket every time it is killed, which would really annoy people. This also functions as a PK buff, and I'm reasonably certain that I've seen a similar (but more developed and sensible) suggestion before. --Saluton 14:49, 21 May 2007 (BST)
2. Kill -This makes them useless for survivors as well. Every time you get PK'ed you also need to start looking for a new flackjacket. It'll cost you more AP to find one then the extra cost it bring a Pk'er--Vista ⁺¹ 16:16, 21 May 2007 (BST)
3. Kill -- No! I wanna keep my flak jacket! --Lord Evans 19:07, 21 May 2007 (BST)
4. Kill - Please no. Even though I'm pro survivor, the effects on rotters would be devestating. Once that flak jacket was blown to pieces, they'd probably never get one again. Makes getting the skill Brain Rot much less desirable. I'd rather live be undead longer and keep my skull intact. --Target Zombie 19:10, 21 May 2007 (BST)
5. Kill - This would just be really, really obnoxious for zombie players. I might be more okay with it if it happened much MUCH less frequently. I mean, like a 0.1%-0.2% chance maybe. That way every time a survivor set his sights on you zombies won't have to find a revive and search for day or so to get a new one. If it was an very infrequent inconvenience I'd consider it. --Rgon 19:30, 21 May 2007 (BST)
6. Change - A flak jacket can be the difference between death and a very frustrated PKer. If this only happened to flak jackets on zombies, (Let's just assume the survivors have the good sense to patch it up during off-hours) I would vote keep. (And to the people complaining about rotters, that's kind of the point of the suggestion.)--Labine50 ^MHG|^MEMS|^DHPD 03:42, 22 May 2007 (BST)
7. I like the idea of degeneration. This is just TOO weak. There were better suggestions on this subject. Take a look at past suggestions. As for the "Rotter" arguments, there is already this in Peer Review. Not to mention it really isn't that difficult for a Rotter to get revived. Before they could even BE revived, yeah, I'd spam this. Now? I think it has merit.--Pesatyel 04:51, 22 May 2007 (BST)

   RE:Lol, is this really a kill vote? I can't tell. XD --BlackScarletLove 10:47, 22 May 2007 (BST)

   RE:I like the idea, just not this iteration of it.--Pesatyel 06:19, 23 May 2007 (BST)

8. Kill - No matter what you do to change it (up the number of hits it can take, increase find frequency, decrease ammo as a way to negate the PK buff) the change required takes a lot of the fun out. And really, FJ's aren't that hard to find. If I spend a days worth of AP searching PDs for supplies (no mallrat skills yet for my, ahem, "survivor" alt), I usually find 1 FJ : 3 Ammo (shotgun or pistol). That may just be my bad luck. Blinkin the Gremlin _{RRF AU10 T} ^{RR GC} 23:16, 23 May 2007 (BST)
9. Kill -- PK buff and Brain Rot nerf. -- Firemanrik 01:53, 24 May 2007 (BST)
10. Kill -- 10 hits is not enough. Make it 50, and I might give you a shot.Waluigi Freak 99 19:39, 24 May 2007 (BST)
11. Kill -- In real life flak jackets aren't the only things that get worn away with use. If you want realism, half the pistols in the game are probably cheap little Saturday night specials that should at least occasionally be blowing up in people's hands, for example. And while we're on this realism kick, shouldn't Malton be running out of ammo, first aid kits, and syringes?--Jiangyingzi 07:11, 29 May 2007 (BST)
12. Kill -- Thinly disguised zombie nerf.--Jorm 19:05, 30 May 2007 (BST)
13. Kill -- Don't mess with the flakies! :) -- Prothero 16:55, 31 May 2007 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - And what about brain rotters? They can't simply go search for a new one.--Bluish wolf 06:30, 21 May 2007 (BST)
2. As Bluish wolf. You do realize this is basically a nerf to zombies and a buff to Pkers? And that it's VERY hard to search for flak jackets. Since when does realism=fun?--ShadowScope 10:46, 21 May 2007 (BST) [EDIT: Judging from how voting is going...I'm SO glad that Kevan doesn't implement Peer-Reviewed suggestions.]
3. Spam - This really should be covered in "dead in the water". Or yah know what, fine, remove flak jackets from the game- and reduce pistol damage to 4, and shotgun to 8. That would end the whining about those guns "not working at full effect". --Seb_Wiers VeM 12:41, 21 May 2007 (BST)
4. Spam - No way...Bluish wolf said it all. --Hhal 14:56, 21 May 2007 (BST)
5. SUPER SPAM OF PAIN! -How would a flak jacket bacome useless? flak jackets are already useless. --AlexanderRM 01:58, 22 May 2007 (BST)
6. Spam and prolly a dupe. This would make flaks almost as useless as wirecutters. --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[cloned] [mod]} 02:11, 22 May 2007 (BST)
7. Dupe - Duplicate of this suggestion. --^T 16:57, 22 May 2007 (BST)
8. Dupe As above. --User:Axe27/Sig 04:14, 23 May 2007 (BST)
9. Spam - Flak Jackets are for anti-PKing. In theory probably one flak jacket wouldn't last you one attack from a PKer. Bad move :( --Marie^{The Grove on Tour} 20:27, 23 May 2007 (BST)
10. Uh...survivors need FJs too. It's for the PKing that goes on...and you don't need to spend an extra AP to drop those extra FJs. It's AP saving if you check or uncheck the box in that last change to the game we had...Oh...also as those above... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 13:15, 24 May 2007 (BST)

    Re: It currently costs 0AP to drop something. :P Also, to yours and Marie's suggestion, there is no difference in effectiveness of a FJ because of who's shooting you. If you are a survivor and you are being shot, it would hurt a zombie the same amount. And that's why you stock up, so that you can retain their effectiveness by putting on another when your current one is exhausted.

    Also, PKing (Player Killing) is a widely abused term. Since there are no NPCs (Non Player Characters), everyone is a player, so the term would be TKing, Team Killing.
    --BlackScarletLove 22:22, 24 May 2007 (BST)

    Re: Err, the proper term in Urban Dead for survivor vs. survivor is PKing, and zombie vs. zombie is ZKing. It's not abused, it's just what we've come grown to. =P --Heavy DDR 04:57, 25 May 2007 (BST)

Lol, whatever. an incorrectly used term is still incorrectly used, no matter how many people have become accustomed to using it. =D But I'll give you a break.  ;) --BlackScarletLove 06:19, 31 May 2007 (BST)

1. Spam And a dupe of at least 2 others.--Priz 08:59, 25 May 2007 (BST)
2. Spam - Dead in the water, a dupe of every other PRejected suggestion, and nerfs dedicated zombie players with Brain Rot. --Matthew Fahrenheit ^YRC☺T☺+1 22:21, 1 June 2007 (BST)