Suggestion:20071123 Weather with Effects on Game Actions

From The Urban Dead Wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search


Stop hand.png Closed
This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Peer Reviewed.


Suggestion Navigation
Suggestion Portal
Current Suggestions • Suggestions up for Voting • Clothes Suggestions
Cycling Suggestions • Peer Reviewed • Undecided • Peer Rejected • Humorous
Suggestion Advice • Topics to Avoid and Why • Help, Developing and Editing


Weather with Effects on Game Actions

SIM Core Map.png Swiers 05:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion type
flavor improvement, tactical consideration

Suggestion scope
global / variable

Suggestion description

Weather Mechanics: Weather has many aspects that are independently variable. I propose to simulate that by having specific weather effects for precipitation, wind, temperature, visabilty, and so on. At any given time, none, some, or all of these effects may be in play. Once an hour, an effect type (precipitation, wind, temperature, visibility) is selected. There is a 10% chance at that time that that effect type will be canceled and a new (or the same) type selected.
Mathmatically, I think this works out to a 33% chance that an active effect will go away in a 24 hour period, given an effect type that has 3 options. Changes are slightly more likely for effect types with 4 options- 36.5% in 24 hours. The total chance for SOME change in the weather in 24 hours is 63.4%. Suggestions are supposed to have hard numbers, and those rates seem good to me- slow enough that they have a real effect and can't just be ignored until they go away, but with enough change that a bad spell of weather won't last so long as to alter population balance.
Also, if Kevan wished, these changes need not occur uniformly across Malton; the city could be divided up into quarters that get different weather changes or some such. For purposes of voting, assume they would apply uniformly to all of Malton; its not THAT big a city, and the added complexity of implementing localized weather is IMO irrelevant to the voting, though probably not much more work to code.

Weather Descriptions: Scene descriptions (both inside and outside) would have suitable text added so that players would always know the current weather conditions regardless of location. These need not tell the exact effect of the weather (the wiki could document that) but any game impacts should be obvious from the action buttons available, etc.

Weather Effects: The effects of specific weather types are described below.

  • Precipitation
Pouring Rain: Moving into or out of a Ruin costs 2 AP. Zombie "Scent" skills don't work outdoors (or at all for Scent Trail). Zombies who lack Lurching Gait would still pay the same 2 AP as normal- there is no further cost for them, because they aren't trying to move fast across slippery ruins.
Blue Skies: No effect. More precisely, this uses the current game mechanics. If implemented, the weather should initially be set to this effect.
Overcast: No effect. Effects as "Blue Skies", but with a bit of extra flavor. Notice that as there are TWO selections with no effect; the "Pouring Rain" effect would thus be in play (on average) only 1/3 of the time.
  • Wind
High Winds: Exiting a Ruin cancels Free Running, just as entering a Ruin does. "Feeding Groan" heard at only half normal distance. A pretty major effect. During periods of "High Winds", ruins would NOT be usable as Free Running entry points. As this would be the case 1/3 of the time, you might see malls with a single actively defended VSB corner and other strategic adjustments. The halfed range for feeding groan is also a pretty stiff hit on the zombie side- it cuts the number of zombies who hear the groan to 1/4 of what it would normally be.
Calm: No effect. If implemented, the weather should initially be set to this effect.
Breezy: No effect. Again, with two "flavor only" effects, High Winds applies only 1/3 of the time.
  • Temperature
Bitter Cold: Barricade Build rates are reduced by 10%. Ankle Grab doesn't work. Working in the cold is difficult, and much of the scrap wood gets burnt for heat. Inactive corpses tend to freeze solid and thus take longer to stand up.
Chilly: No Effect. If implemented in fall / winter, the weather should initially be set to this effect.
Warm: No effect. If implemented in spring / summer, the weather should initially be set to this effect.
Oppressive Heat: Infections cause double the normal HP loss. Zombies stand up with 10 fewer HPs. Heat stress and swarms of insects are hard on your body, living or dead.
  • Visability
Light Fog: characters in nearby blocks shown as "N Figures". You can make out buildings and such, but not the identity of people (living or dead) standing in nearby blocks. Thus the map shows only how many "figures" are in nearby locations, not their names, class, or mortal status.
Clear: No effect. If implemented, the weather should initially be set to this effect.
Hazy: No effect. You might not be able to see over a half mile, but that doesn't impact the game.

Voting Section

Voting Rules
Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped.
# justification ~~~~

Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.


Keep Votes

  1. Strong Keep It's very good. A brilliant idea. Best I've seen yet, though it would require some lengthy game reprogramming...--KoronofHearts 01:18, 5 December 2007 (UTC)KoronofHearts
  2. Author's Notes This is a lengthy and somewhat technical suggestion, and some of the effects look pretty major. Please have patience to read fully and ask questions on the talk page before voting if you are unsure of the meaning. It is VERY hard to get two keep votes to balance a careless kill vote, so please don't vote kill on the basis of complexity / lack of comprehension. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 05:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  3. Keep --Banana reads Scoundrell for all of Yesterday's News, Today! 05:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  4. Keep - Finally, a balanced weather suggestion. --Cap'n Silly T/W/P/CAussieflag.JPG 05:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  5. Keep - Partly cloudy with a chance of brains. --Uncle Bill 08:49, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  6. Keep - Ankle Grab not working in Bitter Cold might be a bit too much, but I like this enough to ignore that. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 09:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
    It is harsh, but the idea is that the whole game would kinda move in slow motion (slightly slower barricade builds, fewer AP to spend on both sides, as ankle grab helps revived survivors). Axing Ankle Grab costs senior players on both sides AP without kicking newbies in the groin. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 17:41, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
    It wouldn't have to be axed, halving it's effectiveness would be good. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 11:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  7. Keep - Cool! --Pgunn 09:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
    Keep - I would like to see normal weather occur more than 1/2 the time... And there are quibbly little details I might not agree with. But overall this is a spiffy suggestion. --WanYao 09:41, 23 November 2007 (UTC) Vote changed --WanYao 18:01, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
    If you consider Light Fog and Oppressive Heat as "normal" (they are small changes) then you get normal conditions 1/3 of the time. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 17:41, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  8. Keep - Another great weather suggestion :) --Ducis DuxSlothTalk 09:56, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  9. Keep - One problem that I can see. If Malton is set in Britan, then you're gonna need to alter the % chance of rain to at least 75%! Seriously though, good work.--SeventythreeTalk 11:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
    I considered changing "Overcast" to "Drizzle." For the British, those basically mean the same thing. However, my weather is less British and more "world gone crazy" - it allows some combos you'd likely never see in real life, because its just a game mechanic. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 17:41, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  10. Keep - We need us some weather--Zach016 12:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  11. keep - weather should add a fun new element to the game--Androo the 2 14:11, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  12. Keep - Despite having seen this suggestion before (not a dupe, mind you), I find the amount of effort you've put into creating it awesome, although there is one thing I would like to ask: Would snow be introduced into the game? And, if so, how would it work in terms of game mechanics? --Private Mark 15:06, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  13. Keep - Weather is a good way to mix things up. Omega 15:45, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  14. Keep - Great suggestion, I see almost no flaws. Good work.--Leon Vulcan 16:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  15. Keep/Change - Love it! But, add stuff like "blizzard" where movement is at double rate, zombie scents don't work, and free running doesn't work. Also, pay attetion to the killers, they look like good suggestions. BoboTalkClown 16:21, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
    The mechanics of the suggestion logically allow grafting in new weather effects after implementation. Perhaps when "Bitter Cold" was in play, the "Pouring Rain" effect could be described as snow (with or without any modifier to effect). However, such things are outside the suggestion's direct scope. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 19:04, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
    Mostly Keep - I think the oppressive heat is a little major. Change the zed stand-up hp to 5 lower, and then it's great.
    Please sign your vote to unstrike it. I went for 10 HP because its enough to let them be killed faster (5 HP makes no difference if only using shotguns, and also little difference to Ax users) but not so much they can't get it back (via digestion) in the course of a normal attack, or even just with a handful AP spent munching fellow Z's. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 17:47, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  16. Keep - Fething awesome. Welcome back Swiers.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 18:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  17. Keep- Interesting. I think weather would add another dimension of strategy to the game. --Darth LumisT! A! E! 18:27, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  18. I want this in the game. - Whitehouse 19:47, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  19. Keep - Sounds fun. -- John RubinT! ZG FER 21:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  20. Damn you! - I was about to suggest this. It does add more flavor and adds more strategy. Glenstone 21:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  21. Keep/Change - You should have a thicker fog option as well and have the rain change to snow when it's bitter cold. --Howard Bentley 22:05, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  22. Keep - I like it. --Nikitis 22:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  23. Keep - Flavor with minimal, yet interesting and impactive effects. A plus plus! --O'Sheehy 23:21, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  24. Keep On Wheels - Finally a weather suggestion that affects gameplay but not too severly as to be spammable. Great job! --Poopman9 23:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  25. Keep - something like this is needed to keep the game fresh.--'BPTmz 23:46, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  26. Keep - This would be pretty cool, actually. We always need a little more flavour in the game rather than something that would completely change the game itself. =3 --GrayscaleRain 02:07, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  27. Keep - Adds some more strategy to the game--Sur5or 04:06, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  28. Keep - Much flavor, some strategy and interesting variable game play elements. I like! -- ZEDU medic T MEMS 05:37, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  29. Keep/Change As long as the Fog is outdoors only (Shut the window!), and the Temp ones aren't in effect in a powered building (It's hot (bumps the thermostat down- the AC kicks in); It's cold (bumps the thermostat up- The electric heater turns on)) Oh, maybe increase the Fuel drain when the temperatures are in the Extremes... AC and the Heater are shameless when it comes to using electricity ~A`Blue`JellyTME*V*I*L*? 06:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
    The "Light Fog" effect does not alter the information given in scene descriptions- its only the names shown on the map that are changed. As such, it generally has no effect indoors- you can't see people who are in other blocks when indoors, except maybe inside a large building (so yeah, I guess something should be done so that Light Fog wouldn't have any effect inside a large building). As for heating or cooling a building with a portable generator, I don't think they'd have nearly the power needed. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 06:38, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
    Maybe, but that really depends on what kind of genny you're using. If you're using something small enough to just power a radio transmitter, all those lights inside a Mall aren't going to get enough power if the place has two floors. But are we assuming we're using the cheap Gennies, or those ones that could power a Hospital nowadays with only 1 or 2 of them? I'd expect them to be using the expensive ones, considering price is no hassle... ~A`Blue`JellyTME*V*I*L*? 03:14, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
  30. Keep - Well thought out and not so unreasonable as to be game-breaking. I applaud you, my good sir! --TriPolar 16:46, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  31. Keep/Change - As Funt Solo says, there are some unreasonable weather patterns. Although your idea is excellent and fairly balanced, you might want to follow Funt's Suggestion and maybe make a few tweaks. I like it though :D --Erutan 22:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  32. Keep/change - Remove the high winds bit and it's a good suggestion.Studoku 01:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
  33. Keep - I had my doubts, but it actually looks pretty good. --Pdeq 06:05, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
  34. Keep/small change - It sounds interesting, and I'm always for more flavor. However, having rain a third of the time doesn't quite seem accurate, and would there be seasonal variations? Sheana/Gogolnik (T HD-T TMZ) 05:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
  35. *Smacks self in the head* Why the hell didn't I think of this when I put up my weather suggestion? Wait...I did think of it...I just never added it... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 11:09, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
  36. K33P - Sounds good to me, except I don't really get the Light Fog part, since you can't see who is in the surrounding buildings anyway... (.)V(.)/~WOOT~\ 00:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
    Go outside; you can see folks who are outside neighboring buildings (but not who is inside, obviously). SIM Core Map.png Swiers 04:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
  37. Keep - good stuff. --Pavluk A! E! 00:18, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
  38. Keeeeep -this is a truely beautiful suggestion! --Wasted wallaby 11:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
  39. Keep - Brilliant --Viktor Suvorov 18:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
  40. Keep - This would add some nice flavor --Bring The Pain!Anti Gorefest5Fight The Pain!TMW!B! 03:57, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
  41. Keep - A well thought out idea with serious potential. JoTheMonkey 21:48, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
  42. Keep & Improve - Don't let the different weather factors only have a flavour effect. For one, let Hazy (and Light Fog) have an negative effect on the usefulness of Binoculars. While you're at it, how about Heavy Fog as well? In Bitter Cold, cause Portable Generators to function only 3/4 as long, as they have to channel energy to heating the building as well. Ariedartin Talk 13:29, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
  43. Keep - Excellent idea and adds plenty to the monotony of just moving from square to square. --Ram Charger 01:37, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  44. Keep, MEGA STRONG! - some minor changes needed, but kevan can decide when/if he implements it Michael ruppe 06:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  45. Keep - Sounds fun!--Squid Boy 23:07, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


Kill Votes

  1. Kill/Change - this needs some work. Precipitation in freezing cold is likely to be snow, not rain. Also, it's unlikely (assuming a temperate climate) that you'd get bitterly cold weather effects in the height of summer. I would say that, realistically, you don't get wildly inclimate weather one third of the time - so those harsh penalties shouldn't be applied one third of the time. Why not do some reasearch and choose some reasonably realistic weather patterns from a temperate city in the UK such as Birmingham, London, Manchester, Edinburgh or Glasgow - or a mix of data? --Funt Solo QT Scotland flag.JPG 12:54, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  2. Change - Not quite right. As Funt says, it's not going to go from extremely hot to very cold. Also, some of those penalties are too harsh for an effect that you can in no way control. Pouring rain is fine and expectable for survivors, but for zombies, no scent skills? How about reducing the effectiveness? Less range on Scent Trail? With high winds, same thing. I don't care if it costs me 5AP to jump out of a ruined building to an adjacent block, I just want to be able to do it. Temperature needs to be toned down too, how about reducing the effectiveness of ankle grab? I'm not too keen on the changed barricade rates either, but I can't think of anything more realistic. Oppressive heat is perfect. Your blood gets pumped faster --> infection travels faster.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 16:16, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  3. Kill - Most of it I like, and would add some flavor to a world that currently has no meteorological conditions (which is, in and of itself, unrealistic). However, the one part that I don't like and the reason I am voting kill is the High Winds condition. Rather than taking free running out of the equation for ruined buildings during High Wind, make it cost more AP or something. I can see a great deal of problems during High Wind weather conditions, by limiting survivor movement substantially in some suburbs, or during certain events such as the "Big Bash". I will not be changing my vote, regardless of comment, unless there is a revision to the High Wind portion of this suggestion. --Ryiis 17:49, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  4. Change - I have to agree with the Kill/Change voters above. While I love the general idea, and the mechanics are overall excellent, there are some things that are too extreme. And there should be some degree of season correspondance, as well as an expectation that it will probably not go from freezing to hot overnight. --WanYao 18:01, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
    A modifier to the mechanics such that changes can only occur one "step" at a time (Such as High Winds<>Breezes<>Calm, but never High Winds<>Calm) would perhaps be logical, but I think rapidly changing conditions are most appropriate to a post-apocalyptic setting and also work better in game-tactic terms. Also, such a limitation would mean once weather reached one "end" of the scale it would tend to stick there for a longer time. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 19:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
    I just think that is unfun to make this too extreme. And while I am always willing to sacrifice "realism" for play-a-fun-ability, I think the weather should reflect the real world at least a little, i.e. hotter in the summer, colder in the winter... and inclement weather that has a significant game effect should be unusual, not the norm. --WanYao 10:44, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  5. Kill / change - minus the zombie HP nerf for opressive heat. also, change the length of weather effects, waiting an hour so you can free run is a non-issue when it comes to gameplay. I'm very cautious of "wildly inclamate weather" as Funt Solo, wich needs to be resolved. see above. otherwise this is something i'd quite enjoy, infact i nearly voted keep - but i would like to see a revised version. all in all good work! --Jack13 20:27, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
    "Waiting an hour so you can free run" is a rather poor bet- the net chance of "High Wind" (for example) going away each hour you wait is less than 2%. The same goes for zombies waiting for the wind to pick up- in that case, its under 1% each hour they wait. And yes, the resulting weather would be unrealistic compared to modern England (or most current cities)- its intentionally "dramatic". SIM Core Map.png Swiers 21:21, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
  6. Kill - some moments are too harsh on players --~~~~ [talk] 13:03, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  7. Kill - Some effects are too harsh, and the idea is pretty complicated for newbies to pick up. It's a lot of hassle for an idea that seems cool but I doubt it would be fun in practice. - David Malfisto 14:15, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  8. Kill -First, it, well, I can't quite phrase it, but also for the same reason as I oppose day/night- I don't want to have to plan my time out and wait an hour before playing. --AlexanderRM 22:12, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
  9. Kill - Rework the balance for the effects, as is it's far worse on zombies(as a whole) than on survivors.--Karekmaps?! 04:26, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
  10. Kill - I don't like how harsh the penalties are for situations that are completely out of a character's control. The chance of having "runs" of huge penalties is annoying- and make it so that every player would have to operate only in "preferred" conditions. For the people who only play once a day, this skill would make their entire day more difficult. --Karlsbad 20:04, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


Spam/Dupe Votes

Dupe - Someone already suggested a similar one. It's in the Peer Reviewed section. Go check it out. --Waterspark2 12:09, 23 November 2007 (EST)
I can find other weather suggestions, but none which allow combinations of individual effects, nor have the effects mentioned above. Kevan tends to mix the best parts of multiple suggestions when implementing them, so in this case similar ideas are probably a benefit. My weather mechanics are hopefully "modular" enough to allow other ideas from past / future suggestions to be integrated in the suggestion's potential implementation. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 17:41, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh sorry! Please forgive me! How do you cross out votes? Waterspark2 4:40, 23 November 2007 (EST)
As requested, struck. --Funt Solo QT Scotland flag.JPG 23:21, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://wiki.urbandead.com//index.php?title=Suggestion:20071123_Weather_with_Effects_on_Game_Actions&oldid=1739193"