Suggestions/17th-May-2006

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Closed Suggestions

  1. These suggestions are now closed. No more voting or editing is to be done to them.
  2. Suggestions with a rational Vote tally of 2/3 Keeps over total of Keeps, Kills, and Spams will be moved to the Peer Reviewed Suggestions page by a moderator, unless the original author has re-suggested the Suggestion.
  3. Suggestions under the 2/3 proportion but with more or equal Keeps to Kills ration will be moved to the Undecided Suggestions page.
  4. All other Suggestions will be moved to either the Peer Rejected Suggestions page or the Humorous Suggestions page.
  5. Some suggestions may not be moved in a timely manner; moving Suggestions to Peer Reviewed Suggestions page will take higest priority.
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VOTING ENDS: 31st-May-2006

Electrocution (not a dupe)

Timestamp: 01:05, 17 May 2006 (BST)
Type: Event
Scope: All
Description: I found an electrocution suggestion, but it was moved to a talk page (which no longer exists) and so I'm not sure if this is a dupe (regardless of the fact it was author-removed). Basically, when attacking a generator with a crowbar, pipe, kitchen knife, or fire axe, survivors or zombies have a 50% chance of taking 4 "electrocution" damage. This will help reduce griefers, I think.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author vote. Tokakeke 01:06, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill - ...by griefing zombies who destroy generators. Don't punish players for doing what they're supposed to do. EDIT: And yes, I realize not many zombies would use a crowbar to attack a genny, but still... --Mookiemookie 01:09, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  3. Spam - People who smash generators, be they humans or zombies, are not greifers. They merely play the game differently than you do, and have different opinions. By the very reasoning behind this, every zombie player is a greifer because they kill human players. I dont think i need to point out how utterly stupid such a line of reasoning is. In any case: Dont punish people for doing what they are supposed to do. --Grim s-Mod 01:15, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Note -discussion moved to talk page.--Vista W! 20:46, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  4. Spam - see above --ramby T--W! - SGP 01:16, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  5. Spam - See above the above :D --Swmono talk - W! - SGP 01:19, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  6. Spam - If my toenails smelled like peanut butter I'd shave them. Sonny Corleone WTF 01:19, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  7. Spam - See Sonny's Toenails -- Tirion529 01:21, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  8. Keep - LOL! I love this! Hilarious! It'd really only affect survivors, as no sensible zombie would use anything other than it's claws. And it should tell everyone in the room that the person got electrocuted in the 'destroyed the generator' message. Much funny. --Blahblahblah 01:25, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep - Zombies wouldn't be affected except voluntarily, since they hit better with claw than blunt. GKing isn't something you're supposed to do. It's not that it's forbidden: it's just completely optional rather than supposed-to in either direction. Damage so low wouldn't be a serious deterrent, just an amusing bit of flavor. But if you really are destroying so many generators that you're going to hit 15 of them and die before anyone heals you, just go find a baseball bat. --Dan 01:33, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Note -discussion moved to talk page.--Vista W! 20:46, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - If it only triggered when the generator was actually hit, I would vote keep --McArrowni 02:37, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re' That's what I meant in the original suggestion. If there is a v2, that will certainly be added. Tokakeke 04:18, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep - Okay, but I generally shoot the generators rather than use melee weap.... er, I've said too much. --John Ember 02:43, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  12. Spam - What grim said, only more bluntly and with liberal usage of the word "fuck". - CthulhuFhtagn 02:58, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  13. Keep -like the basic idea, but I think it would be better to make this only happen to humans, as they have more grey cells to loose. zombies are suposed to attack gennys, humans are not.--Labine50 MHG 03:00, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  14. Keep - Zombies won't be affected by this at all.--Wifey 03:11, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill - I like the effect, but it's unrealistic. Sorry. -Mark 03:31, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  16. Spam - What CthulhuFhtagn said, Only I'd use that word a little more then he would. --Teksura 04:52, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - I agree with Grim and you deserved a little more clouting around the head and ears personally. I think he was very civil and basically told you what side your bread is buttered on. This is a game and to punish people for a strategy that they utilize to play the game is wrong. Thats like saying, ok you can shoot a gun but not kill people because killing people is griefing. --Steel Hammer 05:04, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  18. Spam - In before WTF CENTAURS Agent Heroic 07:57, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  19. Spam - What Grim said. --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - U! 08:10, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  20. Kill - I like the idea the general idea of this, but 4 damage seems a little low, since you can heal 5 damage with a first aid kit and no training. Maybe change it so there's a fixed chance it'll kill you.--Toejam 08:26, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  21. Spam - Grim said it. --Timid Dan 14:11, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  22. Grim FTW/Spam- Never change Grim. Never change. -Banana¯\(o_º)/¯Bear 17:42, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Note -removed illigal part of vote--Vista W! 20:42, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  23. Kill It's not spam, I just don't think it's necessary and would unfairly penalize zombies. I liked my idea of survivors having to use wirecutters to disconnect power before being able to chop apart a generator though. --Jon Pyre 18:18, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  24. Keep/Grim FTL - This only affects GKers, and guess what? Just because it's a choice you've made, Grim, it doesn't mean that we have to respect or even like it. Suggestions that harm PKers are allowed, whether you think they're stupid or not. If you don't like it, make a policy suggestion. The PK 'defense' is 'ZOMG KEVAN ALLOWS IT!1!11!!!!1!!!', repeated ad nauseum. Anti-PK suggestions want to make it harder. After all, it's not like zombies hypnotically control you into becoming a Death Cultist. It's -your- choice. If there are more restrictions on it, and you still make the choice... Well, good for you, but it's still your choice. The main thing, Grim, is that the larger the population of the wiki gets, the harder it's going to be for you and the other PKers here to mount an effective spammination. Personally, I'd be happy to see genkillers take 65535 damage from sneezing, or twitching, as I don't recoginize it as a valid playstyle even if it's allowed within the framework of the game. Of course, I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours, but as more people come to the wiki, expect more people to oppose you on things of this sort. -Wyn (talk!) 18:54, 17 May 2006 (BST) Also: The 'Supposed to Do' argument is fallacious in this case. Survivors are supposed to survive while killing (or at least, avoiding) zombies. Zombies are supposed to kill survivors. Within the framework of the game, though, things that players are not 'supposed' to do are allowed, like PKing and ZKing. -Wyn (talk!) 18:57, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Note -removed illigal part of vote--Vista W! 20:42, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  25. SPAM - For all intents and purposes, this is a defensive auto-attack. There is a viable social mechanism for GKers, and there is no reason to make the enforcement part of the game engine. Making zombies vulernable is even more ridiculous, considering they're supposed to destroy the generators. How is this any different from having survivors auto-attack at 50% for 4 damage if they get attacked by other survivors or zombies? --ism MotA - R'sR 19:32, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  26. Keep -Oh, I love bias-implicit suggestions like these, because it brings out the worst in everyone. Is it all that hard to keep a generator and some fuel with you for GK emergencies? Nonetheless, I do think GKing (and PKing) could use a little bit of hedge placed against them, if only to keep it a RP choice and not a casual "I'm bored, so why don't I try being a jerk for a while?" choice. Zombies should never be punished for doing either, though, since this is what they do. This suggestion doesn't (well, I suppose it does punish stupid zombies, but stupidity should be punished). But to the heart of the matter: the bias. First, the anti-GKers: Yes, yes Kevan doesn't encourage it, but he doesn't discourage it either. Its very appropriate in tone for a game like UD, which stresses the desperate attempt to survive in a chaotic environment. If you don't like it, make your own zombie-apocalypse game where all the zombie-horde assemble in formation and all the survivors sing "Cumbayah" and hug each other a lot. Now, to the GKer-positive faction: The problem with knee-jerk voting like this is that the voter is predisposed to their vote even before they've read all the way through the suggestion (assuming they do read it all the way). It's four frakkin' damage, Grim (and his associated hangers-on), so quit being a baby about this. Either suck up the damage or adapt to other non-conducting weapons (can you shoot a generator?). If its your style of play, your valid RP choice, should this minor change really sway you all that much? If that's all it takes to make you question your "choice", maybe you weren't all that committed to it in the first place.--Xavier06 19:55, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  27. Keep - I was on the fence when I saw this yesterday, but Xavier's vote convinced me. I'd like to give this one a chance --Rozozag 20:09, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  28. Kill - if a genny is not running it cannot electrocute you.--Cah51o 20:11, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  29. Keep - I have two criticisms with how people are voting. First, the internal criticism. Anyone who votes against this simply on the basis that it creates grief must, if he does not want to contradict himself, vote to keep all suggestions that reduce grief. Such a person has made the net change in grief into the highest good regarding pro/anti-griefing suggestions. Such a person would have to vote to keep a suggestion which eliminates PKing all together. Now for an external criticism! Hooray! Any suggestion that makes griefing harder reduces grief, so long as the net change in grief is negative. That is, this suggestion will reduce grief so long as healing 4HP is easier than finding a new generator, finding new fuel, and setting everything up. This is multiplied ten fold by the fact that one person loses 4HP while everyone else loses the search stats and such. Therefore, voting against this suggestion simply on the basis that it griefs griefers is absurd and contradictory. So lets keep it! --Ron Burgundy 21:13, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  30. Keep - I was on the fence until Ron went all Kierkegaard and used fancy-pants words, like "multiplied". After that, I didn't even care what the suggestion was. I mean, come on. Multiplied. You can't fight with that kind of science. --Undeadinator 00:13, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  31. Keep - I.C., amusing. -- Mettaur 02:44, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  32. Keep - although I think Cah51o has a valid point. Crazy Hand 03:05, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  33. Kill -- What the shit is this shit? furtim 03:16, 18 May 2006 (BST)
    Vote change -- Switched from Spam to Kill. It could be made way less offensive by simply eliminating the effect against zombies. It's still kind of stupid, though. I know realism is a poor justification for a vote, but really since when they Hell do you get electrocuted from hitting things? Maybe if you hit the generator directly across the outputs or something, but who's going to be retarded enough to do that? Besides, the generator kill message that was added a while ago should be discouragement enough. furtim 03:20, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  34. Keep - It's not a serious amount of damage, and it's quite reasonable flavour. Zombies won't care, as they mostly use claws anyway.--Ky 22:41, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  35. Keep - "I'm going to attack this power generator with a long piece of metal..." David Malfisto 23:04, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  36. Keep - Please, Zap 'em! --Spraycan Willy MalTel 02:35, 19 May 2006 (BST)
  37. Keep - Needs more damage added to it, maybe it should kill? Four damage can be easily healed with a n00b's FAK --DJSMITHCDF 03:54, 22 May 2006 (BST)
  38. Keep - This is a great idea, but make the chance 25% with 8 damage. --Spartan101011 01:45, 28 May 2006 (BST)

New Zombie Skill

Timestamp: 02:57, 17 May 2006 (BST)
Type: New skill
Scope: Zombies
Description: Well, I can't think of a name for this skill, which is why I just called the suggestion "New Zombie Skill".

As of now, the standing human to standing zombie ratio is 54% to 46% percent. That sounds fairly close, but it's actually a fairly large difference, considering that many of those zombies are active humans waiting for revives. I submit that these numbers are decpetive, and that the favor is actually a lot more towards the humans than it seems with these stats.

A common complaint that I've heard over and over is that barricades are too powerful, with a roughly 6 to 1 AP (If I remember correctly) for survivor/zombie building/destroying rates. As such, any suggestion to improve barricades is immediately shot down, and for some reason, any suggestion to improve the attack ratings on barricades is equally shot down.

It seems to me, however, that Malton is a relatively safe place for being under Zombie seige. I think that is further favor were given to the Zombies, that it would become a more dangerous and therefore more exciting place to be. I think this skill will shift the balance towards zombies just enough to make the game more exciting, but not enough to make them over-powered.

It's actually very simple. The premise behind this skill is that the zombie has become slightly more flexable (for a zombie) and has gained a little more coordination. It would be purchased under "memories of life" of life skill, and would allow the zombie to pass through building that have been only "loosely barricaded". Effectively, this allows the zombie to save a few AP destroying the last section of barricades, without actually weakening the barricades or increasing the attack probibilities on them. Walking through a "loosely barricaded" building would cost 3AP, since no Zombie is as nimble as a human, and it will take them a little extra time to get through them. Since "loosely barricaded" is the very first stage, and is usually very easy to take out with a few AP anyway, this will not make much of a difference for a single zombie. When attacking it groups, it will only make a difference if every zombie in the group has the skill, otherwise the barricades will need to be taken down anyways. Essentally, this skill doesn't appear to do much, only saving a few AP attacking barricades here and there (since there's still an AP penalty for walking through the barricades), but when you "Multiply it by a million", it might just be enough of an edge to make the game more exciting, and get closer to an actual balance between human and zombie. Perhaps the zombies could even have the number advange for once.

Votes

  1. KILL - (1) Six AP is for newly-created zombies without attack skills. (2) Standing zombies aren't the whole zombie population. Most of those dead bodies are zombies too. (3) Even if zombies do need a boost, this is overkill. The balance would be severely tipped toward zombies in a couple days. --Dan 03:04, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill - ^^ What he said --Jason Muir
  3. Keep - I have a zombie alt that has Memories of Life and full maxed out attack skills. Even with claws at 50%, it still takes me roughly 40-45ap to take down barricades, leaving about 10 for attacks. Seeing as though I can only get a few attacks in before I get headshot anyway, and the fact that often I can't even get in due to constant barricading, this is a very good suggestion. Tokakeke 04:22, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill - I just spent well over 30 AP bringing a building up to EHB just because I consistently get those messages of "You use xyz to reinforce the barricade but can't find a place for it." And if you really want to think about it the more a zombie ages the more of its carcass it looses to damage the less readily its limbs would move due to lack of musculature to manipulate the appendages so their accuracy and damage and agility should decrease. This should go even more for those zombies who choose to stay zombies and not get a revit every once in a while to "loosen" up those limbs. --Steel Hammer 05:13, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  5. Kill - I may be mistaken, but I understand the ratio is closer to 4-1 and not 6-1. While it should remain under MoL, this should be a high (10+) level skill. And, for future reference, a lot of your justification is not really relevant. It is better, when making a suggestion, to be blunt and to the point.--Pesatyel 06:12, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  6. Kill - Totally game-breaking. --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - U! 08:12, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - I sware I've seen this somewhere before... but any way I don't like it because it nerfs barricades and hurts newbie Zombies. - Jedaz 10:02, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - For 3 AP, I could just knock the barricades down from loosely to nothing and help the other zombies. Leave barricades alone. --Timid Dan 14:13, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep - Surprisingly, I like this. Think of it this way: securing the door protects you from newb zeds. Building the 'cades up to loosely protects you from moderately-experienced zeds but not the most veteran. Building it up beyond loosely protects you from all zeds (for a while). It's a nice progression, and the AP savings are not so extreme as to break the game. And Timid Dan, if you can reliably knock down a loose barricade in 3 AP, I want your secret! Somehow that last level always seems to me to take the most attempts. --John Ember 14:41, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  10. Keep - I agree with the fact that it should prehaps be a level 10 skill, but i like the idea of Z's being able to slowly shuffle past the barricades, knocking the loose stuff out of the way as they pass through. It doesn't appear gamebreaking in a zombie laser centaur way. Blue Wild Angel 14:48, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  11. Kill - Z's need a fix but this is not it!--xbehave 16:25, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  12. Kill Actually this skill would hurt zombies by making it impossible for newbies without memories of life to enter buildings since advanced players wouldn't open it for them. --Jon Pyre 18:21, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  13. Kill - I'd support this if it was a passive that allowed a level 10+ zombie to completely destroy loose barricades by moving through them in the way that Memories allows a zombie to pass through open doors. After all, headshot 'messes with AP'. -Wyn (talk!) 18:32, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill Allowing brain-eaters to bypass any kind of barricade removes the point to them. Hordes already tear through barricades like toilet paper, and this would only make it unnecissarily easier. The life of a feral is hard, but that's a choice you have to make if you don't want to be in a horde. Not only that, but as everyone else said, newbie zombies would be screwed since all of the other ones would just forget about breaking the barricades down to the door for newbies to enter by. This skill basicailly just removes a level of barricading for the more experienced zombies, and while it might seem fair, it'd only prove to be a problem if implemented. If you think that zombies are underpowered, you're behind the times right now, as I'd say they're pretty balenced compared to how they were at the beginning of the year! Not only that, but this skill would mean the survivors would need a similar ability to search while buildings are in the earliest stages of ransacking in order to be fair! After all, the two roles of barricading are completely reversed for ransacking! --Volke 19:16, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  15. Keep - I think it's over powered as is, but I like the idea enough to want to keep it. - Nicks 19:24, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re: - (To Everyone) Okay, so what I'm basically hear from most people is that, A: It's to over-powered, and B: It screwes over newbie zombies who won't benefit from the more experienced zombies destruction of the barricades. If I submitted this suggestion with both of those problems addressed, to you think it could work? --Rozozag 19:46, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  16. Keep - What John Ember said. Also, given that in 4 or 5 AP I'd knock down the last barricade level, and could open the freaking door, I don't see how this would "tip the balance madly towards teh zambahs OMG LOL". --McArrowni 00:00, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - overpowered -- Mettaur 02:49, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  18. Spam -- Definitely a dupe, but again I don't feel like sifting through all the shit to find the suggestion that's being duped. Also, for the love of God, you could at least pick a name. Maybe you put a lot of thought into this, but the fact that you couldn't come up with a better name than "New Zombie Skill" doesn't show me that. furtim 03:24, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill -- Fails "Multiply it by a billion." Private Oxymoron 20:46, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  20. Kill - MBB. David Malfisto 23:08, 18 May 2006 (BST)

Exposure

Timestamp: 10:23, 17 May 2006 (EST)
Type: Skill/Flavor/Newb Balance
Scope: Humans and Zombies
Description: "This is an urgent message to the NecroTech staff, supporting Military, and all remaining citizens of Malton. We are sad to inform you that you may never leave. It has come to our attention that we were wrong about the virus being transmitted only by fluid transfer. We have found that it is in fact an air-born virus. Luckily, due to Malton`s relative isolation, the infection has not spread as of yet. For those of you who are thinking of suicide, I highly advise against it. Allow me to go over what you`re in for.

As you may have noticed, killing the infected is not all that difficult, but they continue to come back. This is because the air-born virus will only effect and regenerate dead and inactive tissue, hence why unbitten survivors who die becoming `zombies`. There is, of course, a growing number of the infected dead who have a lethal form of the virus in their salivatary glands that can transmit the virus while slowly killing the bitten person. This was what we thought was the worst of things, but now we know that prolonged exposure to the air-born virus, though not lethal as of yet, does increase the body's susceptibility to infection from the lethal variety. This might even include a second hand infection from providing aid to the newly infected. We are, again, sorry to have to announce this news to you. More aid will continue to be sent to you as this now has become a global issue. God speed, Malton."

Ok, here`s how it works: Players must be level 20 to purchase this 100 XP zombie skill and the player must have the Infectious Bite skill. Zombies who have this skill produce more of the air-born virus as they increase in level (A.K.A. decay). As a result, humans who are higher in level (A.K.A. exposure) feel the effects of this skill.

Biting and infecting a human causes more damage per turn the higher the human's level. As an example, level 10, the virus does 2 points every turn till cured, level 20, it does 4, level 30, it does 8 and caps off with a 10% chance of infecting someone who attempts to cure you with a F.A.K..

The down side of getting this skill is that the higher the zombie who has its` level is, the more decayed they are, making melee weapons more damaging to their bodies the higher they go. As an example, level 20 makes Knives, Pipes, Bats, and Axes do another 2 points of damage, level 25 causes an extra 4 instead of the extra 2, and level 30 is an extra 8 instead, and caps off with another 3 AP to stand back up once killed.

Votes

  1. Keep - As my Author vote I would like to point out the high benifits to newbs with this skill.--Savat 10:25, 17 May 2006 (EST)
  2. KILL -By newbs, do you meen survivors, of zombies? Because it looks like this mainly benifits zombies. Iz bad ya? --Labine50 MHG 15:36, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re - By newb, I mean anyone under level 10. This makes low level weapons stronger against high level zombies while not affecting the lower level ones while also making the Infectious bite do more to high level humans without affecting lower level ones...--Savat 10:47, 17 May 2006 (EST)
      • RE -You are the weakest suggester. Good bye.--Labine50 MHG 15:51, 17 May 2006 (BST)
      • Re - Can we make the comments less cute and more constructive???--Savat 10:58, 17 May 2006 (EST)
  3. Spam - Now I've always wished that people who suggest increases in infectious bite whould recieve the same treatment on their face as micheal jackson has had without the seditives but with the rabid raccoons, But you derserve that afterwards bubbles gets to use whats left of your ravaged features in the same way micheal would entertain Macaulay Culkin.--Vista W! 15:37, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  4. SPAM - not cool man...not cool. --Legom7 15:44, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Where is this spam? I see nothing suggesting that it is. Abuse of the Spam vote I think...--Savat 10:49, 17 May 2006 (EST)
  5. SPAM - overpowered, the fact its easier to kill the zombie is no consolation to the guy that dies in 7AP (making it nearly impossible to heal yourself)--xbehave 16:23, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Yes, but someone who dies that fast already has been getting zombie skills, if not maxed out on them, so why should they care if they are playing a zombie again?.--Savat 10:58, 19 May 2006 (EST)
  6. Spam - It penalizes players for doing what they're supposed to do, i.e. level up. Very harsh penalty too --Mookiemookie 16:27, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - Puts melee weapons too high, and just penalizes high level characters for no good reason. The attempt to balance it is nice, but just makes everyone who worked hard to get where they are weak. Were this implemented, I'd just get a level 9 firefighter and hunt the big boys. Basically, I'd say don't make a high level skill with drawbacks. If you need balance try and give the other side a counter skill. Oh and 'God speed, Malton' doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me there.--Burgan 19:50, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - It's been said. On the merits, I would vote spam. Penalties for levelling are a non-starter, and even if they were a good thing, this one is overpowered. But the intent seems sincere, so it's just a kill. --Dan 16:51, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  9. Kill - I quite like the opening paragraphs, however the suggestion itself is overpowered, a lot.--Changchad 17:39, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - Given the way leveling in UD works, this would discourage people from maxing out skills they don't "need", making the game less fun. Also crazy unbalancing with melee weapons. --Zaruthustra-Mod 17:58, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  11. Spam - This is spam because it's an unworkable idea. There is no way to improve this, and it will never make it into the game. -Wyn (talk!) 18:23, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re - It is workable, numbers in the skill can be changed to make it less powerfull and somone can always make a gas mask item that you need to change the filters on, or something like it...--Savat 11:06, 19 May 2006 (EST)
  12. Kill More powerful players are more vulnerable? What the heck? --Jon Pyre 18:25, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  13. Spam - This helps newbies? Perhaps only because the suggestion screws over everyone else. --Timid Dan 18:33, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill I'd have voted spam, but at least you had a good RP reasoning for it. You'd be good with writing stuff about UD in an IC perspective, but the suggestion itself is way too overpowered and punshes players for moving up in the world by making themselves stronger. --Volke 19:31, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  15. Spam - Level 20 requirement? You do realize that the zombie skill tree maxes out at Level 17, and you're requiring zombie players to 1) get revived and 2) take human skills, when there's really only 1 useful crossover skill? And what everyone else said. --ism MotA - R'sR 19:41, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  16. Spam - It is already so overpowered, why not just make it an insta-kill? And, no offense, the RP justification isn't that great either.--Pesatyel 19:48, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  17. Spam - We're Knights of the Round Table. We dance when ere we're able. We do routines and chorus scenes. With footwork impeccable. We dine well here in Camelot. We eat ham and jam and spam a lot. Sonny Corleone WTF 20:50, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  18. Spam - I dare Savat to Re this vote. No, you know what? I double-dare you, motherfucker. --Undeadinator 21:03, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • What country you from? Sonny Corleone WTF 21:11, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Undeadinator, that was uncalled for. Leave your mom out of this... To everyone who is saying that this is overpowerd, please note that they were examples and the numbers can be tweeked to make it less powerfull. As far as the issue of penalizing the leveling process, I recall reading something about how everything in the game has a drawback somewhere, so where is the drawback to making a player so strong that every newb who they come accross is crushed?--Savat 16:36, 17 May 2006 (EST)
  19. Spam - How does breathing the virus in make it do more damage??? --Cyberbob240CDF - U! - WTF 22:40, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Are you asking me to outline the effects of a virus that would cause dead cells to reanimate in a scientific mannor??? I can't... I can make an assumption that the combination of the fluid based form of the virus, that does damage to living cells, and the air-born virus, that reanimates dead tissue causes a much more devistating effect to the body. The process of breathing forces the virus into the bloodstream like all other gasses you breath. An injury causes more blood flow to that area in order to fight infection, however with the air-born virus in the blood stream, the transformation process is faster. The air-born virus can't be breathed back out like other gasses because it becomes too large to separate from the alveoli while in a liquid environment, hence the longer you're breathing it in, the more builds up in your body, waiting for cells to die.--Savat 18:03, 17 May 2006 (EST)
      • Re - Whether or not you inhale any virus or it gets in directly to your blood, it's still the same virus. --Cyberbob240CDF - U! 08:57, 18 May 2006 (BST)
      • Re - Not true, viruses mutate all the time, that's why you can never get rid of either the cold or the flu, they mutate about every 48hrs. As it turns out, the lethal variety is the mutated version...--Savat 9:02, 18 May 2006 (EST)
  20. kill/SPAM are you playing the same game as the ret of us? i mean yes zombie infection as it stands is not scary but this... well the less said the better. NONSESICAL!.--Honestmistake 02:44, 18 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Go to my Talk page and I'll try to explain what you're not understanding in a "sensical" way, not that I havn't done that already...--Savat 9:10, 18 May 2006 (EST)
  21. Spam -- HOLY FUCKING HELL NO. furtim 03:35, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  22. kill - wow that was some intro. but your idea as stated is overpowered.its nonsensical that the higer level you are the faster you die. your HP dosent go up by 10% of your constitution every level up. I thorght you were going some where with your intro. but your actuall suggestion vered off at right angles. Nazreg 15:29, 18 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Ok, let me go over the logic in this. The higher your level the longer you've been playing the game, the longer you've been playing, the longer you have been in Malton, with me sofar? The longer you have been in Malton, the more you have been breathing in this virus, the more virus you breath in, the more is in your body. Now here's the kicker, the more air-born virus in your body, the more damage is done when combined with the effects of the lethal fluid based virus.--Savat 10:43, 19 May 2006 (EST)

Anatomy skill: knife upgrade

Timestamp: 17:55, 17 May 2006 (BST)
Type: Skill
Scope: Knife combat
Description: Prerequisites: First aid, knife training.

Type: Military. Effect: When you successfully hit with a knife, you have a 45% chance of having found a vital organ in which case you do an additional 2 damage. On hits where the extra-damage roll succeeds, your target's hit text would say "<name> stabs you for 4 damage" instead of "hits".

Thus the total damage for a knife attack is 2*0.4 + 2*0.4*0.45 = 1.16. So it's still a hair weaker than the axe on total damage output, but close enough that people who prefer the flavor text could reasonably give up the difference. And the higher standard deviation gives you a slightly better chance at pulling off a long-shot kill occasionally, which doesn't really matter but it's fun.

Votes

  1. Author keep - PS, check out my latest version of ropes here. The more it gets critiqued on the talk page, the fewer revisions will get posted here. --Dan 17:55, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill - Only because I'm not tremendously fond of conditional damage. I'll point out that the flavor text/explanation probably wouldn't apply to zombies, as they only have one vital organ, in theory. But that's not why I voted kill... I think conditional/variable damage doesn't suit the game as it stands now. --Timid Dan 18:36, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re - We don't know what makes the dead move, but based on the fact that they take damage from all existing attacks exactly as survivors do, it must somehow depend on having their bodies function as though they were alive. As for conditional damage, please explain on my talk page, and if I agree I'll withdraw the suggestion. --Dan 19:13, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  3. Keep - Finally a good suggestion, Dan. This helps buff the knife, though I may suggest it might be better for this to be an inherent property in the knife, rather than having to buy KP for it. Tokakeke 19:33, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill - I'm all for making the knife useful, but I have to agree that zombies don't care if they just got knifed in the liver. They don't feel pain, and they don't bleed to death. --zizanie13 19:37, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re - They don't care if they get shot, either. So why do guns do just as many damage? Answer: the fact that they don't care about wounds is reflected in the fact that dying doesn't matter for them. They just stand up again. --Dan 23:08, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  5. Keep - re: Zizanie13; so should the attack message remain hit and only be Stab for inflicting it on Survivors? Or can you still be stabbed even though you feel no pain? Anyway, a good idea and doesn't make the knife automatically better than the Axe unless you have a skill. --Karlsbad 19:41, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  6. Kill - Not a bad idea. Each weapon needs something special. I just don't feel this is it. Maybe have it do only 1 damage instead of 2 and reduce the hit % to, say 30%. I'm not that keen on the "numbers" for suggestion like these, but simplistically speaking, it seems to me every other hit you would do 5 damage and that just doesn't seem right.--Pesatyel 19:57, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    • Re What do you mean by " every other hit you would do 5 damage"? In this suggestion, almost every other hit you would do 4. Making it 5 on every other hit would make the knife too powerful and no one would use the axe. --Dan 23:08, 17 May 2006 (BST)
      D'oh- What was I thinking? Fire axe? Well, the damage is no big deal (thanks for the correction), but the hit % should still be lower.--Pesatyel 23:00, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  7. Keep It's still not really balance, since it's and extra skill and still isn't as strong as the Axe, but hey, an under-powered skill is still better than an over-powered one. I'm all for it. --Rozozag 19:58, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  8. Keep -The Suggestion Guidelines section does caution against giving bonuses to attacks based on anything other than your own skills, but not every one of those guidlines is meant to be holy writ. A good idea is a good idea and I'd be a fool to pass it up just because of some dogmatic allegiance to the "Do's and Don't"'s. As it stands, there are only a few really useful weapons in the game and I can't see that it would hurt to make the less useful ones a little more interesting...--Xavier06 20:06, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  9. Kill - Make it effective only against humans and I'll Keep. Which would make it a total PKer skill, but that amuses me. --John Ember 20:57, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  10. Spam I would have voted keep if it was called CQC and zombies got Metal Gears. Sonny Corleone WTF 20:58, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep - My god, I don't believe I've used this vote since 1989. I can see why everybody else put the Killbob on this, though. I'm just being contrary again. --Undeadinator 21:06, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  12. Keep - now I might want a knife! --Legom7 21:14, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  13. Keep - Well, to be honest, zombies don't care, but its a game after all. --Changchad 21:55, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  14. Keep - Holy crap, a Keepy suggestion? --Cyberbob240CDF - U! - WTF 22:41, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  15. Keep - I guess. More uses for knives are good. I still like the higher % to hit better though --McArrowni 00:06, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  16. Keep - Heck, I've read it over and over, trying to figure out what was wrong. And I can't. --Mookiemookie 00:19, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  17. Keep - with the knife only doing 2 dmg and 40% acc why not giv it a special thing over the fire axe that does 3 dmg and 40% acc? at least then the weapons will be more balanced... --Nkoi 16:55 17 May 2006 (PST)
  18. Keep - I like my fire axe, but this would be a good reason to try a knife. Crazy Hand 03:11, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  19. Keep -- Hooray for unsucky knives! Hooray for a balanced critical hit suggestion! furtim 03:37, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  20. Keep - Brilliant. This is what we need. Ways to improve existing useless weaponry. We need something like this for the blunt weapons as well. -- Krazy Monkey 08:43, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  21. Keep -- Very good suggestion - if you're feeling lucky, use the knife, get some extra damage. However, if you're feeling the contrary, stick to the axe. Great idea, and makes me love the fact that I have a knife. Private Oxymoron 20:57, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  22. Keep - Makes the knife actually an interesting choice. --Ky 22:49, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  23. Keep - Very reasonable knife suggestion. Leaves uses for both knife and axe. I made a suggestion about a knife yesterday, but it was not as good as this one! --Otware 09:55, 22 May 2006 (BST)
  24. Keep - I like it. Seems like you could do as much damage (if not more) with a knife than an axe. heatherc 11:52, May 22, 2006 (MST)

Lose One Flak Jacket Upon Death

Timestamp: May 17th 2:30pm EST
Type: Balance change
Scope: Humans, Zombies
Description: Short and sweet: If you die, you lose a flak jacket. Assume it was looted from your body, or maybe wore out during the attacks that eventually killed you.

This actually increases the value of flak jackets, since most players will usually just grab one during their very early levels and then never bother with them again, other than to dump extras from inventory during PD searches. It would be a lightweight code change (drop top 1 flakJackets from character xxxx), require no changes to how flak jackets work in current damage prevention, and add value to carrying spares. It also adds incentive for non-ammo-carrying classes to visit the local PDs and Malls, and gives extra flak jackets a possible use besides simply clogging up the inventory as they do right now. Maybe some will want to carry two or three spares in inventory, just as a non-medical class human currently might carry a FAK or two to remove infection.

As a corallary, no special changes would need to apply to zed flak jacket use - and let's keep that argument of "flaks should/shouldn't be used for zeds" seperate for other discussions. I am not looking to change Status quo on that. Zeds that die too often would run out of spares and revert back to regular damage adsorbsion.

Votes

  1. Kill - Don't mess with my inventory. Tokakeke 19:52, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill - Don't mess with other people's inventory; unneeded change, no RP reason, no in-game reason, all around bad. -Karlsbad 19:53, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  3. Kill - Blah blah what they said.--Jorm 19:56, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  4. Spam - HAY GUYZ ZOMBIES ARENT TAKING FULL DAMAGE FROM MY GUNZ THAT IS SO UNFAIR. - CthulhuFhtagn 19:59, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    note discussion moved to talkpage--Vista W! 20:54, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Re - Author edit applied. My entire goal was to leave out the issue of zeds using flaks. They do right now, and that is not an issue this change is trying to address. I'm just trying to apply the loss of a jacket per death to both classes to simplify coding and balance. - decentdeals 3:47, 17 May 2006 (EST)
  5. Spam Is this your suggestion Kb? I can't tell, also I can't tell from the text that this really isn't saying it would affect zombalak jackets. -Banana-\(o_-o)/-Bear 20:03, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Re: No it isn't, just decided to get people to read the second paragraph before going all "nerf zmobies iz teh evol" spam-a-thon. I think from that phrase "no special changes" and "that arguement seperate" that the suggestor wants this to only effect survivors. --Kb
  6. Keep - Uh, actually there is a very good in game reason. Currently, Axe-weilders basically don't need to search for anything. This would make for one single thing they need to search for, and would therefore balance out a little better with those who constantly need to search for ammo. In addition to that, it makes an item currently utterly useless (Extra flak jackets) useful again. As for the zombie concern, I agree that might be a problem, but it could be addressed. Perhaps a Zombie skill that is equivilant to a perminant Flak Jacket? Sure, it would require an extra skill, but I think that would make this fair. Perhaps I'll suggest that if this doesn't make it through. --Rozozag 20:05, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  7. Spam - I agree with the guy above. Axe wielders are too good, they should have shitty damage and the need to spend their days searching for rare items. But seriously? Don't mess with inventories. The flak jacket is so rare that it would just be a griefing festival. --Zaruthustra-Mod 20:16, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Re: Pardon my confusion, but I constantly get extra jackets during PD searches. They never struck me as a "so rare" class of items -decentdeals
  8. Kill - I believe Karlsbad said it all --HerrStefantheGreat 20:18, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep Ah, sure. Zombies have few opportunities to search for new flaks, but then zombies don't really care about getting hurt as much as humans do. I'm not sure the flak was really intended as a zombie item, anyway. And it would mix things up among the survivor population as flaks come and go. Still, might be nice if acquiring Brain Rot "locked in" your flak (for some mysterious reason). --John Ember 20:23, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Re: This reply sums up my reasoning behind the suggestion. -decentdeals
  10. Kill - Unneccesary change with poor justification. Don't spite the zombies to pay the PKs.--Dread Lime 20:29, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  11. Spam - Don't. Punish. The. Players.--The General W! Mod 20:54, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Re: Wow, people are really hardcore on this. I'm not looking for player punishment, but instead trying to give reason and benefit to all the extra flak jackets found in searches. I guess my suggestion is shot if the current swing of votes are any indication, but expecting a flak jacket to last forever (RP or not) after countless dozens of bullets and shotguns blasts makes about as much sense to me as asking for pistol clips to never run out of bullets. -decentdeals
  12. Spam - Unfair to zombies. Some Brain-rotted zombies get killed at least once, sometimes twice a day. How in HELL are they supposed to 'replenish' thier supply of flak jackets? --Timid Dan 20:56, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Re: As previously mentioned, that would require a slight alteration. Choose your own reasoning - maybe Brain Rotted zombies also know to loot flak jackets as they go? -decentdeals
    Re: You DO know that zombies can't search, right? Your statement looks ridiculous in that context. There is no reason needed to justify extra/duplicate items on searches. If every item needed a 'reason', there'd be a use for newspapers other than using up IP hits. --Timid Dan 21:06, 17 May 2006 (BST)
    Re: Of course I know that - I play frequently as both classes and enjoy doing both. I personally don't care how it affects Brain Rotted zombies, but I understood the question and I would be fine with allowing them an exclusion. I'm more interested in making flak jackets become an item that doesn't last forever, adding to the fun of the game, and without adding complicated hit counters that few would agree on and which would bog down the server. It also gives non military folks a reason to enter and defend a PD they might not be otherwise interested in, and zeds would know it. One could even argue that Brain Rotted zombies are at the top of their game, and maybe they won't mind losing a bit of flak protection. I'm fine either way the majority would want it. -decentdeals
  13. Spam - Don't fuck with other people's sis--inventory. Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but in this day of 10 AP revives and zmobie spie safari hunting, the undead can't exactly afford to go and get a rev every day. This is an absolute game-breaker for anybody that has project housing for rats in his colon. --Undeadinator 21:10, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  14. Spam - What you don't seem to understand is that most people (Read: People with Free Running) would much rather hit up a Powered Mall for their Ammo. My survivor usually crosses 2 Surburbs just to get to a Mall so he can get easy ammo, and in the end will probably come out on top AP wise. And how isn't the Flak Jacket supposed to be a Zombie item? It only takes affect when something does 5+ damage, while the max a zombie can do is 4. </rant> -- Tirion529 21:52, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  15. Spam - Nein!--Wifey 22:00, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  16. Kill -on the rareness of flack-jackets: as soon as you get based in a mall, you'll never encounter a flackjacket again. I haven't found one in about half a year.--Vista W! 23:13, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - No retroactive penalties on skills, not even brain-rot. The suggestion as written is unclear, sounding as though it would apply to zombies. And btw, don't mess with people's inventories. --Dan 23:15, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  18. Spam - Oh hell no. Velkrin 23:24, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  19. Spam - I have had my flak jacket for seven months, and over time, with all the times i have been shot, it has become as much a part of me as my arms, legs, and teeth. Now, seriously, this would just serve to be a horrific zombie nerf, especially in light of BRAIN ROT. --Grim s-Mod 23:47, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  20. Spam - Grim FTW Sonny Corleone WTF 23:51, 17 May 2006 (BST)
  21. keep no item, thats NO ITEM should realisticaly last forever! that should especialy apply to flak jackets as they get shot to bits every day.. I understand the 'Oh no this nerfs brainrotters' arguement but i am sorry that just does not cut it. zeds should not care about such things and a flack jacket (usefull almost entirely) only to zeds was probably not included just for them. if they break it nerfs zeds more than harman\ but as they are pretty much useless to harmanz and available to zeds only via what may be considered cheating then this seems totally fair. one last point; i play 3 characters and only one is a dedicated harman (and even he is currently a zed!) on the whole i throw flak away as too heavy for a harman compared to benefit. as a zed i always consider this a mistake but who cares as i am after all dead!!!!--Honestmistake 03:00, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  22. Spam -- What grim said. Plus, nothing else decays in this fucking game, so why only flaks? furtim 04:31, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  23. Kill - Dont mess with other peoples inventory. Suggestions_Dos_and_Do_Nots#Leave_Other_People.27s_Inventory_Alone How would you like it if someone came along and ripped off the flak jacket you spent 25AP looking for? -- Krazy Monkey 08:48, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  24. Kill - Oh my Lord, I'm concurring with Tokakeke. (Haha, joke...hah...oh screw it, I'm kidding, okay?) Seriously, yes; do not mezz wif ze inventor-ee! Private Oxymoron 21:11, 18 May 2006 (BST)
  25. Kill - Hey! Decent! Leave my shit alone! We don't need no crap suggestions... David Malfisto 23:18, 18 May 2006 (BST)
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