Suggestion:20071126 Religious Flavor in Malton

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20071126 Religious Flavor in Malton

Sheana/Gogolnik ^{(T HD-T TMZ)} 02:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion type
Flavor

Suggestion scope
Buildings, Survivors, Zombies

Suggestion description
Preface: Yes, I have read the previous suggestions on religion in Malton. I'm not proposing prayer, or changing a sizable number of streets to diverse houses of worship or suggesting a that we rename all Churches and Cathedrals and crucifixes to non-denominational houses of faith (or non-denominational objects of faith). This does not add any new buildings or change the function of any existing buildings; it's essentially a name/flavor upgrade.

That said, I think there's a decent amount of religious diversity in Malton, and with the history of suggestions it's apparent that at least a handful of people are interested in flavoring up the city. My suggestion, then, is to put one synagogue, one mosque and one temple in Malton, in an areas historically noted for an active Jewish/Muslim/Buddhist populations.

• Temple Beth-El to be located in Heytown at (73, 32) (formerly St. Onuphrius's Church)
  • Justification for location: Historical presence of Queer Jew in the same suburb at nearby Chaffey PD.

• Malton Islamic Center to be located in Dulston at (98, 2) (formerly St. Barbara's Church)
  • Justification for location: Some have already started using this church as the "Mosque of Pluto," so if any church in Malton were to be changed to a mosque this would make the most sense.

• White Lotus Temple to be located in New Arkham at (8, 90) (formerly St. Hormisda's Church)
  • Justification for location: New Arkham is home to The Tebbet Building and New Arkham Free Zone, and is generally rumored to be a haven for hippies and other peace-loving beings.

As with churches, survivors would be able to find first aid kits at the same rate in the synagogue, mosque and temple; the only practical difference would be the absence of crucifixes and wine in the buildings (except for the synagogue, which would still have wine at a find rate approximately the same as in churches/cathedrals). Like churches and cathedrals, the synagogue, mosque and temple would not have doors that could be closed, but it would be barricadable.

How would this benefit survivors? Obviously, there's the possibility for more RP in the game (religious fanatics, a real home for any emergent Jewish/Muslim/Buddhist/Hindu groups). It wouldn't detract from the game, because an essentially flavor building will stay a flavor building - you don't get experience for having a bat mitzvah, you don't find flamethrowers, the walls aren't scribbled with writings from the Torah or the Koran, etc. It's just a bit of interesting flavor. Chanukah party anyone?

As for zombies... I suppose it would depend on who was maintaining the structure, but they could theoretically partake of the Jewy goodness as well. And even if they're not spiritual, it's still a building to break into for brains.

Finally, in discussion it was brought up that hate groups could form in opposition to these suggested buildings. I would counter this with the fact that these groups already exist and are relatively well-handled - just look at the efficient addressing of text rapists, for example.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Weak Keep I like it, but it says that Malton was mostly Christian. It's just that you have no Christian churches set there, soooo....just wondering.--KoronofHearts 00:58, 5 December 2007 (UTC)KoronofHearts
2. Author keep - I'll bring the latkes. Sheana/Gogolnik ^{(T HD-T TMZ)} 03:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
3. Keep- Interesting. I like flavor! --Darth Lumis^{T! A! E! SR} 03:06, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
4. Keep- I like it. It brings game-specific events into consideration, especially in regards to the placement of the places of worship. -- Peace Pipe 03:09, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
5. Keep - -- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 03:10, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
6. Keep - no problems here--Zach016 03:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
7. Keep - Flavor is good!--'BP^Tmz 03:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
8. I'm sure I've seen (and liked) similar suggestions before, but I'll take the author's word about it not being a dupe. I do think Riddleybank should have a Hare Krishna temple, so the zombies can dance and chant "harra harra, ramma ramma, harra ramma, ramma harra". I also wouldn't mind seeing a library get turned into a Christian Science reading room. 04:09, 26 November 2007 (UTC)  Swiers
9. Keep Interesting. Omega 04:12, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
10. Keep - New Arhkam is not exactly known for its peaceful zombies these days... But hippies? Maybe...  :) --WanYao 04:18, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
11. Keep - As long as we don't get "What about my religion?" complaints. --Ram Charger 04:37, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
12. Keep - Why not?--  Savant  Chit-Chat  06:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
13. Weak Keep - Flavour is good, although I'm a bit worried about Boxy's concerns. --Pgunn 07:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
14. Keep - I Like this a lot.--Seventythree^Talk 07:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
15. Keep - Yes, please. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 09:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
16. keep - A little variety is always good. The Mad Axeman 10:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
    • vote changed - Why not?--Corndoghero 13:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
17. Keep - Looks alright. I'm sure Kevan isn't intolerant.--Waterspark2 8:31, (EST)
18. Keep - good idea. --Pavluk ^{A! E!} 14:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
19. Keep -like it! flavor is always good...we all need more flavor! --Wasted wallaby 15:10, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
20. Keep - I think it adds interesting flavor for RPing purposes and diversifies the buildings of Malton a bit more. As for Boxy's concerns, jerks will be jerks. I don't see why we should intentionally keep the game bland for the rest of us. It's not like we don't get enough hateful ignorance broadcast on the radios and spraypainted on the walls already. --Pope Beligerent I 12:25, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
21. Keep Nice Flavor. CharonX 21:11, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
22. Keep The guys above said it best. --Nikitis 21:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
23. Keep Because I want religious violence breaking out in the street - Nazis trying to PK in the synagogue, and getting their cans handed to them, woo! HooperX 22:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
24. Keep - I'll vote for this, granted that the a new form of wikidrama does not occur because of it, nor in-game drama. As funny as it would be to see "Nazi-Zombies" attack a bastion of the Jewish, or the Islamic, or the Buddhist, these could quickly turn into prejudice hate-issues. Of course, we could always deal with them the way we deal with text-rapists.... *cocks a shotgun*. --Private Mark 23:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
25. Keep- I like flavor! -- ZEDU medic ^{T MEMS} 23:44, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
26. Keep - Opens up some interesting RP possibilities. --Uncle Bill 03:35, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
27. Meh. - To killers - yeah, there's going to be some moron nazi/anti-semitic/atheist/Christian/whatever who will spam kill a certain area, regardless of RPing or not. It'll be few and far between, though. Glenstone 04:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
28. Keep - Sounds goodish... Bastetmeow 04:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
29. Keep - It's the best religious suggestion so far. Not to say it's good, but it's good enough.--Cap'n Silly ^T/W/P/C 06:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
30. Keep - Yeah all right. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 11:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
31. Keep - As I said on the suggestions talk page. --Pdeq 22:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
32. Keep -Was going to abstain, but boxy forced my hand. Hate groups might organize, so we should just do their work for them (I.E. not creating the buildings they hate)? That's, ah, "counterintuitive" (for the sake of politeness. --AlexanderRM 22:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
33. 'Keep - Yay diversity and flavor. Boo monotony and ethnocentrism. --Heretic144 00:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
34. Weakest Keep Possible - Yes, I think that a plan almost identical to this would be good. No, I don't think that those specific buildings, and to a much greater extent your reasoning, is acceptable or correct. If anything, it should be done completely randomly upon re-naming. But I do vote against keeping an entirely Christian church system in the game, which is what there is now. I don't think religion should be a major factor, but I favor diversity over the generic. --Psiborg 14:47, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
35. Keep - Because I think people fighting and killing over outdated and irrelevant mythology in games is funny. --Druuuuu 19:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
36. Keep - Adds some flavour, and we could find ourselves seeing more than just Zombie Jesus fanatics soon enough. =] Ariedartin 12:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - We don't need religious territory to fight over. It has the potential to get really ugly when the Nazi's turn up to PK everyone in the local Synagogue. This is flavour that doesn't really fit with the zombie theme -- boxy • talk • 07:34 26 November 2007 (BST)

   Perhaps it doesn't really fit in with the zombie them, but neither does handing out candy or having a zoo, but those are both already there. And would you use the same argument about synagogues in real life as you do in the game - hate groups *might* organize, so we shouldn't have a synagogue/Jews (or a mosque/Muslims, etc.)? Sheana/Gogolnik ^{(T HD-T TMZ)} 16:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

   These would be the target of religious, and racial slurs, and while they can be dealt with in real life, online, in a game where there is no need to have places of worship (other than minor role playing, flavour reasons), it is just too much trouble for too little benefit. Kevan would be liable for removing any race hate messages up on these places ASAP if someone decided to be offended that their religion was being shat upon... it's just not worth the hassle, at all. If someone votes to remove churches from the game, I'll give it a keep, but until then, don't make it worse by defining exactly what religion the generic churches are -- boxy • talk • 01:21 27 November 2007 (BST)

2. Kill - No. Churches are fine as they are. -- John Rubin^{T! ZG} 07:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
3. Read above 2 votes. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 11:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
4. Kill - While I agree with Boxy, I just don't see the need for religion in game. If groups want to roleplay it, then that is fine, but we don't need any hardline changes. --Ryiis 14:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
5. Kill - as the box--Corndoghero 16:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
6. Kill In real life the police investigate and prosecute religious slurs. I'm afraid there isn't enough to prevent racist graffiti in ruined temples. And Nazi Zombies! --Jon Pyre 16:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
7. Kill - This has come up a lot recently on the Suggestion Discussion page, and my reasons for voting Kill are the same on each suggestions. In the movie genre of undead vs. survivors, it's nearly always the christian/catholic faith that is the main opposition. If players have found their own work-around like you mentioned, that should be enough.--Actingupagain 16:30, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
8. Kill - No, keep religion in Malton vague.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
9. Kill - As boxy/Gnome. --Kikashie ^ELT 18:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
10. Kill - Why not every other religion? That and I'm against terraforming blocks.--Karek^maps?! 01:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
11. Kill - Why, Why would we need this. Churches are fine as they are no need to be specific Anti Gorefest5 --anti gorefest5 05:24, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
12. Kill - Pointless unless you want people to specifically target buildings by their names, at which point you'll get uglier and uglier situations happening. --Karlsbad 20:11, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
13. Kill - As everyone above. --Lh778 04:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
14. Kill/Change - Can we get a Jedi? - Grant 08:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
15. Kill Do NOT get rid of crucifixes, even if "only" from a few churches. When I'm ready to go find myself a crucifix I don't want it to be any harder than it already is. --Ms.Panes 09:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Useless - flavor is fine, but i find this pointless... --/~WOOT~\ 04:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

   Understandable, I didn't expect everyone to like it, but does that necessarily make it spam? It's not over-powered (or any-powered, really) and it doesn't seem entirely ridiculous. After all, we've had stale candy and a goth store, which seem equally pointless. Sheana/Gogolnik ^{(T HD-T TMZ)} 04:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

2. Spam - I can't find the words. I hate this suggestion. I just don't like religion. Also, I don't like the references to actual player groups, especially the more in-your-face ones such as Queer Jew. I mean, what is that? Is it a positive statement, a negative statement, or a joke? Is it designed to provoke a reaction? What about the references to Mossad in their page? In taking real world religions and depicting them in a game, you're inviting real world arguments, which some people take REALLY seriously. Seriously enough to target other people. Sure, we have churches now - but it's not like they say what religion the churches are from. You can roleplay it any way you like at the moment. Can't we all just get along? (Apart from the brain-munching and shooting, that is.) --Funt Solo ^QT 09:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

   Further discussion on the talkpage. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 15:13, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

3. Spam - Im with funt on this one. This is just a plain bad suggestion. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 15:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
4. Dupe - I've definately seen this before.Studoku 15:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

   Mind linking it? I've done a pretty thorough search and haven't found anything (other than what I mention in the suggestion itself). Sheana/Gogolnik ^{(T HD-T TMZ)} 16:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

5. Spam Funt got there first. We don't need to see more religiously inspired morons shooting each other... it happens enough in the real world! Youi have put a lot into this and I hate voting Spam but that is what this will end up causing! --Honestmistake 16:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
6. Spam - The big question is "Why does this NEED to exist?" I realize that, technically, NO flavour NEEDS to exist, but there seems to be little point behind this at all. --Steakfish 01:04, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
7. Spam I'm sorry, but WHY do we NEED to change the NAME of the RELIGIOUS ENCLOSURES? ~A`Blue`Jelly^TME*V*I*L*_? 05:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
8. SPAM This idea is incredibly stupid. Out of genre, will result in formulation of hate groups, will ruin the game, promotes separation due to religion, will make others judge someone by their religion, a goth store and stale candy does not promote religious hatred, promotes ignorance, and is basically a stupid idea that is too ridiculous to exist. --Happy doodle 12:11, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

   Way to be civil with your critique. There are already hate groups in the game, so that point is moot. As far as separation, your argument is that instead of having bigotry be a result of some diversity in the game, we should just institute bigotry ourselves and save everybody the time? I can understand the arguments of some folks, but the argument that we shouldn't create it because people will be rude based on identity ignores the fact that presuming Christianity as the default/norm and just not allowing those other options to exist is just another form of rudeness/prejudice. Your logic is really let's prevent oppression by perpetuating a slightly less offensive form of oppression? C'mon, I'm sure you can do better than that. Sheana/Gogolnik ^{(T HD-T TMZ)} 23:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)