UDWiki talk:Administration/Vandal Banning/Archive/2009 06

June 2009

MoonShine

Cyberbob240 said:

Posting a humourous suggestion in the regular suggestions area. I'm tempted to take DDR to Misconduct for voting Keep on it but we'll see. --Cyberbob 03:14, 1 July 2009 (BST)

I'm at a loss of words right now. --Haliman - Talk 03:16, 1 July 2009 (BST)

Try going back to school then if you can't find anything in your vocabulary? --Cyberbob 03:25, 1 July 2009 (BST)

Bah. I expected a comment like that :P. Someone doesn't like everything with a pulse Fiffy, huh? --Haliman - Talk 03:27, 1 July 2009 (BST)

yeah clearly bringing a humourous suggestion which was posted in the main suggestions space to A/VB when posting humourous suggestions in the main suggestions space is vandalism has to be the result of some kind of bias right??? --Cyberbob 03:30, 1 July 2009 (BST)

Yep. --Haliman - Talk 03:31, 1 July 2009 (BST)

heh heh heh deliberately pretending like you don't know my comment was sarcastic is a p awesome comeback!! --Cyberbob 03:33, 1 July 2009 (BST)

Yep. --Haliman - Talk 03:34, 1 July 2009 (BST)

Fuck, thats why i hate wiki crats. Always mumbling about "Ohh, how am i going to power abuse today?" Fuck you, cocksucker. --Skouth 03:36, 1 July 2009 (BST)

I'm sorry it's not my fault I was abused as a child :( stop it daddy it hurts --Cyberbob 03:37, 1 July 2009 (BST)

Just common sense. Seriously, if the SysOp team does not rule this vandalism, then we no longer have SysOps worthy of their title. It's pretty simple, post humorous crap where in belongs. In the crap bin Humorous Suggestions Page. That's what it's there for.--

| T | BALLS! | 03:44 1 July 2009

This from the only person to vote no. -- 

•   Timmah!  

•   Talk  

03:46, 1 July 2009 (BST)

I would have voted Humorous in the SPAM section, but I'm boycotting the SPAM vote. Sorry.--

| T | BALLS! | 04:05 1 July 2009

Well said. Rules is rules. Don't call us power abusers because we take on the responsibility of enforcing the rules. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:49, 1 July 2009 (BST)

I didn't notice a whole lot of rule enforcement going on when you voted Keep. --Cyberbob 03:50, 1 July 2009 (BST)

Ug, anyone arguing against this case needs to realize that while this one may be awesome, if we start allowing random stupid stuff into the suggestion system, it'll easily dilute the quality further then it already is. Remember, suggestions are for Kevan. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 04:01, 1 July 2009 (BST)

From the notfunny template:

"If you are unsure of a how a suggestion will be viewed by the community, it is recommended that it be placed on the Developing Suggestions page first, to gauge community support, and to improve it before being taken to voting."

As you'll see here i put it to discussion where it met near unanimous approval and i subsequently added it to voting. Oh and it was serious Fiffy needs laser eyes. <3 MoonShine 04:15, 1 July 2009 (BST)

I heard tell that DDR told you it was vandalism on IRC prior to you submitting it but that you (obviously) ignored him. --Cyberbob 04:21, 1 July 2009 (BST)

Not seeing it amongst his contributions though. Prior to this case being brought up, I see nothing warning of the perils of posting the suggestion. --Johnny Bass 04:28, 1 July 2009 (BST)

You dumb? Do you not know what IRC is? --Cyberbob 04:29, 1 July 2009 (BST)

We don't have your fancy IRC's way out here in the countryside. --Johnny Bass 04:30, 1 July 2009 (BST)

Wiki noob Ephraim here, just found this. I thought a vandal was a person who makes a bad faith edit, and honestly, how is a joke in bad faith? But I wouldn't know, I'm new to these wiki politics. --Ephraim 04:33, 1 July 2009 (BST)

Yep. --Skouth 04:34, 1 July 2009 (BST)

SirArgo

Cyberbob240 said:

You know there's something in the way that you word comments that says to me that you're really a pretty damn immature child. It's one of those things you can't quite put your finger on, y'know? --Cyberbob 22:01, 30 June 2009 (BST)

omg sysop bias jsut becuase he dosen't liek sirargo --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 22:12, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Pretty much. I dare everyone to find the real immature child here.--SirArgo ^Talk 22:17, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Oh, oh! I know this one! J3D! --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 22:21, 30 June 2009 (BST)

At times, but not here.--SirArgo ^Talk 22:25, 30 June 2009 (BST)

I think Jed just loves to play around, while Cyberbob is usually dead serious.--Thadeous Oakley 22:26, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Jed is serious more often than you might think. I am serious about as much as you might think. (telling the truth is actually less immature than "trolling") --Cyberbob 22:30, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Trying to pass off opinion as unquestionable truth is on the level with trolling, just about. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 22:35, 30 June 2009 (BST)

"Trying"? No. I am. --Cyberbob 22:38, 30 June 2009 (BST)

zomg biases rite der --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 22:42, 30 June 2009 (BST)

u got me......................................................................... --Cyberbob 22:44, 30 June 2009 (BST)

yey i gotted him to admit it! my job is done here *goes off to eat cookies and ice cream and pet the cat* --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 22:45, 30 June 2009 (BST)

lmao, just saw you unironically agree with Bob's joke about sysop bias. I'm not even close to being the "immature" one here - or anywhere else --Cyberbob 22:31, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Wasn't agreeing to bias, per se. Just saying your immaturity is blindingly obvious. Want proof? Read your little "comment" on my talk page and all of your wasted efforts to piss my off on my Programming talk.--SirArgo ^Talk 22:34, 30 June 2009 (BST)

"Wasted"
lol --Cyberbob 22:38, 30 June 2009 (BST)

omg it's the troof tere's a hole conspiricy and everyting there out to get us omg --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 22:35, 30 June 2009 (BST)

MisterGame

In reply to Bob's comments on the main page

Bob, that is the biggest load of shit and you know it. You seriously expect that once a new user signs up, they should go and read all arby cases and skim all of the A/VB logs, reading about shit they know nothing about? And if they don't, well then they are ignorant and should be punished for not knowing about all of the MANY THINGS that have occurred. And yes, I know Thadeous isn't new here, but if you pull this on him, you will do it again.--SirArgo ^Talk 16:42, 24 June 2009 (BST)

That's a fairly good summary, yes. There is of course leeway for absolute newbies and whatnot but for someone who had been around for a reasonable amount of time like Thadeous there should be no excuse. --Cyberbob 16:43, 24 June 2009 (BST)

Makes a little more sense, but still there is a lot of stuff to read and most of it is unhelpful. I think if something is "Required Reading" we should have a splash page for it for easy access.--SirArgo ^Talk 16:47, 24 June 2009 (BST)

Nalikill. That is all. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:41, 24 June 2009 (BST)

My memories of him are semi-deliberately repressed. What's his relevance again? --Cyberbob 18:48, 24 June 2009 (BST)

I'm having trouble finding it, for some reason. Basically, it was a case like this impersonation one where Nalikill fixed a link and may or may not have been banned/warned as a result. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:56, 24 June 2009 (BST)

Here we go. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 19:02, 24 June 2009 (BST)

This sort of impersonation never extended to things like spelling fixes and stuff. That case was a pretty bad brainfreeze on my part. --Cyberbob 19:05, 24 June 2009 (BST)

Mmm, this one makes you look a little like a 'tard not addressing the entire comment, though. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 19:15, 24 June 2009 (BST)

That's pretty much the root of why meaningful edits to replied-to comments are considered vandalism, yes. --Cyberbob 19:28, 24 June 2009 (BST)

Yeah, I know I'm not involved in this case, whatever...
MisterGame, ignorance of the law -- or in this case of established wiki rules -- is no excuse. And, you're not a newbie. Grow up, already.
And sysops... Good job! Good to see, as bob says, that the pussification of the admin staff hasn't completely rotted the ediface. --WanYao 22:41, 24 June 2009 (BST)

and yet.. i wanted to get my two bits in.. can't let you sysops always hog all the glory, pfffffft! ;P --WanYao 22:43, 24 June 2009 (BST)

The talk page isn't totally ignored, don't worry. (only when it comes to handily ignoring opposing opinions) --Cyberbob 22:46, 24 June 2009 (BST)

baaaaaa. I wish i could go back in time and see what would have happened if ddr had rolled the ball in the other direction...--xoxo 08:03, 26 June 2009 (BST)

You're dumb and you don't have anywhere near all the facts. So business as usual I guess? --Cyberbob 04:07, 29 June 2009 (BST)

rightbackatcha.--xoxo 08:50, 29 June 2009 (BST)

I would love to hear your rationale for accusing me of not having "anywhere near all the facts". I'm confident you have one because I'm sure you weren't just out for a cheap n' nasty. --Cyberbob 09:40, 29 June 2009 (BST)

I'd love to hear what you think all the facts are and thus why i don't have anywhere near them.--xoxo 13:16, 29 June 2009 (BST)

Don't you keep IRC logs? You know everything I do if you do. --Cyberbob 16:57, 29 June 2009 (BST)

I read the whole convo, hence i was confused when you told me i didn't have anywhere near all the facts.--xoxo 17:00, 29 June 2009 (BST)

Clearly you didn't because anyone with a brain (you do have one of those right?) who read that convo wouldn't have made the comment that you did. --Cyberbob 17:02, 29 June 2009 (BST)

I don't think you understand. I'm saying if DDR had made the opposite decision which early on (check your logs) he was considering I wonder what the other sysops would have done and subsequently what the result would have been. It was an off hand comment because obviously we will never know and can only speculate. Comprende? --xoxo 17:05, 29 June 2009 (BST)

You're shit at people (big revelation!!). Boxy might be a tool sometimes (okay a lot) but he isn't a sheep. If anything he is more likely to have sheep following him than the other way round. --Cyberbob 17:10, 29 June 2009 (BST)

And you're just shit at reading. I implied i'd be interested, not that i can categorically say boxy specifically (love you don't mention ross) would have definitely voted not vand if ddr did. It was a speculative off hand comment, don't try turning it into something else.--xoxo 18:01, 29 June 2009 (BST)

You're really bad at hedging. --Cyberbob 18:07, 29 June 2009 (BST)

k.--xoxo 18:09, 29 June 2009 (BST)

Also the next time you post on the main page when you clearly shouldn't I'm taking you there myself. You've gone way beyond "should know better"; I know you do know better. --Cyberbob 16:59, 29 June 2009 (BST)

So now it isnt fine to shit on admin page? Color me shocked. --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[talk] [wcdz]} 20:51, 29 June 2009 (BST)

Will that be with rollers or do you prefer brushes? --Cyberbob 00:02, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Also Hangnut if you'd actually bothered to do even a cursory amount of homework before throwing your two cents in you would know that I've been moving comments to the talk page for months. --Cyberbob 00:04, 30 June 2009 (BST)

Cyberbob240

You better ip me as well, i also have a number in my name ;) --xoxo 13:55, 24 June 2009 (BST)

Cyberbob240

While i agree bob should use the talk page, he is being 'asked' by the guidelines too so yeah, arbies not a/vb.--xoxo 13:17, 24 June 2009 (BST)

"If you are not a System Operator, the user who made the vandal report, the user being reported, or directly involved in the case, the administration asks that you use the talk page for further discussion. Free-for-all commenting can lead to a less respectful environment." Remember this Jed? Your 'asked' but the reality is that syops enforce this rule strongly. Same should go for Arb. That, and Bob's comment is plain bad-faith.--Thadeous Oakley 13:23, 24 June 2009 (BST)

Now you're trying to twist bad faith to cover for the lack of a civility policy. It's been tried before, and as far as I know has never succeeded. --Cyberbob 13:25, 24 June 2009 (BST)

Yes but while bob moved my comment i'm not going to get warned for making said comment. --xoxo 13:28, 24 June 2009 (BST)

Oh you're more than welcome to keep edit warring him over it, you theoretically shouldn't get warned for it, i assume you just got sick of it quicker than bob did...--xoxo 13:29, 24 June 2009 (BST)

I'll think you get warning within minutes if you start the same edit war with a syops on the A/VB page and talk page.--Thadeous Oakley 13:32, 24 June 2009 (BST)

I was talking about your a/a edit war.--xoxo 13:34, 24 June 2009 (BST)

And I was talking about what would happen if you did the same thing on the A/VB pages.--Thadeous Oakley 13:36, 24 June 2009 (BST)

...okay then.--xoxo 13:49, 24 June 2009 (BST)

WOOT

He got five vouches, have an open mind --Pestolence^(talk) 19:37, 19 June 2009 (BST)

WOOT!!!!!!!!! --Imthatguy 20:39, 19 June 2009 (BST)

nigger please.--xoxo 21:02, 19 June 2009 (BST)

Whoever invented talk pages. I thank you. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:03, 19 June 2009 (BST)

just for the record i actually posted that on the talk page, it didn't get moved. I'm a good boy :) --xoxo 21:05, 19 June 2009 (BST)

Oh hai. Just out of curiosity, what is the criteria by which this (admittedly humorous) promotion bid is considered vandalism? --_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 18:24, 20 June 2009 (BST)

u. u r the criteria --Cyberbob 18:40, 20 June 2009 (BST)

Personal opinion and selective perception. --Pestolence^(talk) 21:13, 20 June 2009 (BST)

Spam. As per the last bid that was ruled as such. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 01:36, 21 June 2009 (BST)

AnimeSucks

how come a user input on a overdue promotion case now its considered vandalism ? that said, there is nothing on the guidelines that say that the two weeks period only starts after the third vouch is acquired. --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[talk] [wcdz]} 13:27, 16 June 2009 (BST)

It specifies that the 2 week period happens in community discussion, not the section before it. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:55, 17 June 2009 (BST)

we really need to update our rules, do we ? It was written that way when the page was created (once again, by odd starter or librarian brent without community input). The sections were added later on, but we ALWAYS counted the two weeks periods for vote starting from the day the user was nominated. If there are cases that dont follow this procedure, they are the exception of the rule. --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[talk] [wcdz]} 04:18, 17 June 2009 (BST)

The way the rules are written (not how we've ever actually done it), the bid shouldn't be open to community discussion (ie. againsts) until the bid qualifies for being moved down by having 3 vouches (and everything else). Perhaps that would be a better way to do it, avoiding unqualified applicants being told how much they suck, unless it's made necessary by at least some support -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 04:28 17 June 2009 (BST)

A shining example of what you'd get to see more of if you vote for bob. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 00:11, 17 June 2009 (BST)

Not a vote. Linkthewindow  Talk  07:23, 17 June 2009 (BST)

One could argue it is, in a way. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 00:26, 18 June 2009 (BST)

You've got yourselves to blame for this, if you'd just let me against him...--xoxo 08:04, 17 June 2009 (BST)

You are literally a retarded baby. --Cyberbob 08:41, 17 June 2009 (BST)

btw i have no comeback to this in case you were lyk refreshing the page waiting for it or something!! haha! --xoxo 21:03, 19 June 2009 (BST)

(i wasn't) --Cyberbob 18:41, 20 June 2009 (BST)

User:J3D

Trolling comments will not be dealt with. Signed--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 21:43, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Moved from main

hahaha thats so funnyoh wait it isn't. Racism as sohock humour is Not Good. --Cyberbob 20:32, 7 June 2009 (BST)

But this is the first time he has ever posted Nigger... oh, wait... He does this all the time. Wasn't that what he posted when he got demoted, too? Huh. I bet they vote Not Vandalism.-- #99 ^DCC 20:46, 7 June 2009 (BST)

This is the first time I've caught it in time for the case to be relevant, and I'm going to keep making these cases until he either stops or finds a way to use the word in a funnier way than simply "NIGGER *teehee i sed a nauty werd". --Cyberbob 20:49, 7 June 2009 (BST)

"Retard. Fuck off"; Quoting you there Bob. What's the difference between a "retard" and a "nigger"? Both are rather vulgar terms, one is rather touchy for people born with a mental or physical disability, the other one is for people with a different ethical background. Besides, I thought there was no civility policy. --Thadeous Oakley 21:50, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Indeed. --Janus ^talk 22:22, 7 June 2009 (BST)

^Another great example, this time homosexuality. This case can only end in not vandalism. Any other outcome, and we might aswell drag half the community to vandal banning.--Thadeous Oakley 22:29, 7 June 2009 (BST)

A different "ethical background", Thadeous? Wow, that's actually pretty damn racist. Hang your head in shame. --Cyberbob 05:39, 8 June 2009 (BST)

That was not meant as racism and you know that. --Thadeous Oakley 09:55, 8 June 2009 (BST)

It was definitely a telling slip. You might not have "meant" it but it's pretty obvious that deep down you wanna lynch a black man. --Cyberbob 10:28, 8 June 2009 (BST)

You are a very, very sad guy. So I don't agree with you so I must be racist? Your ignorance is pitiful.--Thadeous Oakley 12:52, 8 June 2009 (BST)

If my ignorance is pitiful your racism is disgusting. Racist. --Cyberbob 13:00, 8 June 2009 (BST)

I'm not a racist. If anything, your misinterpreted my comments possibly due me misunderstanding english here. Because I don't see what's wrong with the words ethical background. You have Caucasians, Africans, Asians etc. "Nigger" is obviously a insulting term towards those with an African ethical background. I don't see where you conclude that I'm a racist.--Thadeous Oakley 13:07, 8 June 2009 (BST)

You're suggesting that they subscribe to a completely different morality just because of their skin colour. That's pretty racist. --Cyberbob 13:12, 8 June 2009 (BST)

The word you are looking for is ethnic, not ethic. Big difference, look it up -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 13:15 8 June 2009 (BST)

I'll bet you're a real hoot at parties >:( --Cyberbob 13:21, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Go find someone worthy of your particular talents :p -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 13:30 8 June 2009 (BST)

Oh. Well I meant ethnic...oops. And what's a hoot? --Thadeous Oakley 13:24, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Nevermind. Just know that you were being trolled so we can all go home. --Cyberbob 13:29, 8 June 2009 (BST)

I don't know that so we all can go out.--Thadeous Oakley 13:33, 8 June 2009 (BST)

? --xoxo 16:06, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Come on he's a fob, give him the b of the d. --xoxo 08:17, 8 June 2009 (BST)

This wiki never ceases to amaze me, really just wow. I'm allowed to call someone a "retard" but not a "nigger"? You know, that's real discrimination right there, at the favor of skin color and at the cost of disabled people.--Thadeous Oakley 22:42, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Yeah, I know. This place sucks sometimes doesn't it? But all in all, Nigra tends to be more offensive than returrrd. :/ --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 22:43, 7 June 2009 (BST)

I hope your not serious in that last bit. Otherwise feel free to explain that to a black guy in a wheelchair.--Thadeous Oakley 22:51, 7 June 2009 (BST)

"Hey buddy, you're not retarded are you?" SA

"No, sure not, dick. Assuming because I'm in a wheel chair that I'm retarded? I should run your white ass over!" Nigra-man in a whellchair

"Nah man, you got it all wrong. That guy over there told me to explain how calling someone a nigger in front of you would be more offensive than calling him a retard. Because, you know, apparently in his view all people who are mentally disabled are automatically too fucked up to walk, amirite Nigra?" SA

"Hells yeah! Lets smoke his ass for bitching about inequality in offensiveness, yet being a fucktard and a biased bigot on accident!" Whellchair Nigra-man.

Yeah. That's why.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 23:04, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Obviously the wheelchair was an example. I can't remember where I said mentally disabled can't walk. Link? You haven't explain anything. Can you explain it or not? Because you still haven't explained why "nigger" is somehow less worse then "retard". You only drew a silly story. --Thadeous Oakley 23:12, 7 June 2009 (BST)

And in case you didn't know, not be able to walk is physical disability not a mental one.--Thadeous Oakley 23:16, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Ahh forget it. I probably messed up due english not being mother language. Retardism is only mental disability not a physical. My mistake.--Thadeous Oakley 23:21, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Still doesn't explain why "nigger" is somehow less worse then "retard" though. Alright SA, a black guy with down's syndrome. What do you say?--Thadeous Oakley 23:23, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Lesse, you refer to me explaining that to a black man in a wheelchair, which is clearly inferring that said black man is not only retarded, that way both of the words are offensive to him. Which would also mean that you're using the wheel chair as an identifier for being retarded. Using a wheel chair specifically as your leading example of mental disability would imply that you believe many MD people cannot walk. I made up the story to let you know you should have picked a different example.

The reason why Nigra is more offensive is because of one big reason. RETARDS WERE NOT AND ARE NOT KEPT IN SUBMISSION FOR MANY GENERATIONS. Nigger was created as a derogatory term to label slaves. Retard was not created as a label to simply offend the MD peoples. Sure, it's used to call another member of the human race stupid, but it's still not insulting the people who actually are MD. Unlike Nigger. Which is still used like that. Good enough explanation?--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 23:24, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Excuse me? How's using the word retard not insulting towards MD? Because that's what a retard is, mentally disabled. And when people refer negatively towards a MD they generally call him a retard. Sure, calling a non-mentally disabled person retarded, means he's stupid but its still insulting towards MD's.--Thadeous Oakley 23:35, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Because when you call a black man a nigger, chances are you think their entire race is like that. Where as if you call a man a retard, you don't think every single person is also retard. It's not offensive to call them a retard in general, as that was the actual way a lot of scientists referred to the MD. Until the general public started using the word. But Nigger was always a derogatory term. Unlike retard.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 23:43, 7 June 2009 (BST)

If you remove add the tiering in my comments, it looks like I'm not saying it all. GAH!--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 23:29, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Because retard(ed) is still a clinical definition. Both having a special needs child, and being an advocate for special-needs children both in and outside the classroom as a teacher, I'm a little more sensitive to the use of the term and I have to say although I don't like it (the term Retard)being thrown around I find it a HELL of a lot less offensive than nigger. Regardless the use of Nigger is a violation of the TOU. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 23:45, 7 June 2009 (BST)

The main reason his use of the word nigger is vandalism is because it is spamming the admin pages with that word, of which J3D is a chronic perpetrator. If he used it anywhere else it probably wouldn't be vandalism but doing it on a page where his comment is supposed to represent input or some sort of opinion is spamming the admin pages and in using the word nigger he is doing it offensively also. There is no merit in crying vandalism when someone uses the word 'retard' in the same context as Bob did, because it was his way of expressing his opinion on the candidates on that page, albeit offensively. Same goes for Read (though more borderline). D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:32, 8 June 2009 (BST)

You guys are telling me is that "retard" and "fagot" are socially acceptable here while "nigger" is not. The logic behind it is breath-taking but I'll drop the subject since I'm in the minority again and because this isn't going anywhere. --Thadeous Oakley 10:06, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Thank god. --Cyberbob 10:27, 8 June 2009 (BST)

It violates the Terms of Usage, as Conn said. That should be enough. --WanYao 12:33, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Wow, there are two cases now... There may be no civility policy, but there may be community standards... Not to mention the TOU.

Consider my request to have J3D's ass banned -- twice -- one voice in the community expressing its standards. --WanYao 12:46, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Its offensive and racist but I don't recall ever seeing such slurs brought here before... much like i don't recall ever seeing anyone brought up on charges for the equally racist use of the word Jew as an insult or for blasphemy (which is at least as sensitive a subject) Pretty sure we have had cases against homophobic language but its all looking a little arbitrary from where I am sat. --Honestmistake 00:33, 9 June 2009 (BST)

I've complained about J3d putting racism on pages before.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 01:00, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Iscariot

What a retarded case. "durr he HAS to know better! obv bad faith, obv harassment!!" If this is ruled vandalism, every time Honestmistake brings a case against someone I'm going to do the same for him because "he MUST know better" even though he plainly doesn't. This is punishing stupidity which is a really really shitty straw to be grasping at even by straw standards. --Cyberbob 14:51, 2 June 2009 (BST)

I think cases like that brought up by people that should know better should result in bans. Next time you and J3D get into your little slap fights we should kick both of you for a while. --– Nubis ^NWO 01:57, 3 June 2009 (BST)

That is a really retarded reason to skip warnings, I have to say. Here's a thought; rather than just ignore warnings' existence why doesn't someone just come up with a modification to the escalation reduction policy to make them stick for a longer period of time? --Cyberbob 05:26, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Well, this is a new level of retardation. Let's make it harder for good users to reform to punish bad users that we should just fucking ban and get rid of. That's golden! I can't wait to see you use that logic as an OP. The lowering of warnings through edits shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for career trolls. That's exactly what he does. Fucks with users and builds up his post count. The only good thing about the system is that he has alienated most of the sysops so none of them are that eager to reduce his warnings because he will make a misconduct case against them (and none of them will do it without being asked directly by him) and he has too much pride to ask for them. -- #99 ^DCC 20:35, 7 June 2009 (BST)

if they're really such good users I'm sure they won't have any problems with getting their warnings taken off no matter how long the period is set to smugdog.jpeg --Cyberbob 20:39, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Sadly for you Bob I don't think I have ever brought a case against anyone.... unlike you and some of the shit you pull which would certainly be worth a case if I could be bothered to make one. --Honestmistake 19:56, 2 June 2009 (BST)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha --Cyberbob 19:57, 2 June 2009 (BST)

I agree at this point... I was there when the the edits to Iscariots pages were happening, and the subsequent cases made... And at no point did I think these cases were illegitimate. Regardless of how I voted. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:07, 2 June 2009 (BST)

There's a vast difference between Honest and Iscariot. Don't play stupid. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:56, 2 June 2009 (BST)

ohshi better stop playing stupid dont wanna get a slash vee bee'd --Cyberbob 19:36, 2 June 2009 (BST)

yer so kewl! --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 19:38, 2 June 2009 (BST)

too kool for skool --Cyberbob 19:51, 2 June 2009 (BST)

aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh SA did you not read a single word of what we talked about --Cyberbob 15:34, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Are you referring to something that I may also have talked to him about? D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:39, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Probably. --Cyberbob 15:48, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Then I can probably assume that I said the same thing. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:48, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Hopefully. ;p --Cyberbob 15:50, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Actually, yes, I talked to you both about the same thing. I was going to hold off on this as DDR knows, but sometimes shit happens (Like karke making a case out of the blue. ><), and, well, I decided now might be a better time to play my hand. It may have been a bit earlier than originally planned, but still no less valid. And right now the spotlight is on him. Sure, we can ignore him, settle all the wiki lawyering cases he could make as soon as their started, ruling against him and saving everyone from his el terrible. But that's not the way to go about this here. I doubt he's going to get bored and leave, because there is no way every single user on this wiki will know to just ignore Izzy. It's just not possible. He'll still be able to be a dick on suggestions, and the admin pages. And we can't just go around denying everything he asks for and brings up because some of it may be legit, and we'd be no better than him if we denied those cases. He'll do nothing but still bring up needless bad faith cases against us, and anyone who may disagree with him until the day he leaves this place. We should just end it now. It is the sysops perogative(sp?) to judge cases that have no policy to govern them, we should do something about it. Something effective. Iscariot isn't going to learn from a small warning, it will only make him angrier and more hostile. The only real solution I see here is to remove him entirely for a period of time that will teach him shit will not be dealt with anymore.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:12, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Regular users weren't the ones I was thinking of when I suggested ignoring him. Sysops are really the only people he goes after because you can't claim "bias" or "abuse of position" against a normal user. If you can get the sysops to ignore him he will eventually give up. --Cyberbob 20:18, 2 June 2009 (BST)

But he will harass normal users like hell when he feels like it. And we don't need that shit around here. Not to mention that the Ops team probably won't be able to ignore him long enough for him to leave without one or two of them losing it and going berserk. You know how some of us get.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:23, 2 June 2009 (BST)

If he starts harassing normal users take him to Arbitration. As for the sysops... fuck 'em. If they can't do such a simple little thing as not feed a troll then they don't deserve their positions. --Cyberbob 05:23, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Oh my, did we send SA the same email? D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 01:48, 3 June 2009 (BST)

No, the fundamentals on why this "should not happen" were different. Bob's was "ignore him altogether, no matter what, stuff stuff stuff", yours was "let him stay until he breaks something. A potentially LARGE something". :P --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 01:54, 3 June 2009 (BST)

He frequently makes very good points... just a shame he can't make them without being abusive, arrogant and obnoxious! I think a popular vote would be a bad idea as there is every possibility that he would meat puppet it his way. My preference would be for a Sysop/Crat vote with 100% needed to pull any serious rules swerve such as an instant 3 month ban.... 1 month on the other hand might serve as a reasonable warning that he needs to stop being such a dick! --Honestmistake 19:54, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Honestmistake said:

I would like to think we have about as little in common as is possible for two UD players who Bob dislikes!

Honestmistake said:

He frequently makes very good points...

0wn3d --Cyberbob 20:09, 2 June 2009 (BST)

I say he frequently makes good points but then give enough monkeys typewriters and one might be be able to sign itself "Cyberbob" and I wouldn't want to be compared to that either. Now do us all a favour and stop trying to goad me into a fight... --Honestmistake 20:20, 2 June 2009 (BST)

You (as always) don't understand what my joke is. It's funny because on the one hand you said you have as little in common with each other as is possible to be and on the other you said he frequently makes very good points. So what does that make you? --Cyberbob 05:28, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I got your joke bob, I just didn't think it very funny that you took my quote out of context. Yes I said we have very little in common and yes i said he made good points... HoHoHo, that must mean that i don't make good points! Sorry bob but anyone with brains enough to read the full quote would have picked up on my full meaning while you just cherry picked things so you can continue to harass me. Grow the fuck up boy, the jokes wearing thin. --Honestmistake 08:13, 3 June 2009 (BST)

honestmistake talking about 'anyone with brains' and telling someone to 'grow the fuck up'

heh --Cyberbob 08:24, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I normally respect your judgment, Angel, but you can't get rid of someone just because they're rude/abrasive/arrogant/et cetera. Once you do that, where do you stop? Banning Iscariot over this will set a bad precedent, namely that the sysop team can get rid of anyone they don't like. I vouched for (most of) you guys because I trusted you not to abuse your power, and banning someone over their attitude towards people is simply an abuse of power. --Pestolence^(talk) 18:14, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Already been done with Grim (partially, if the coup didn't happen), in a way. Except the difference here is that with Grim he was an asshole (and less of a one, at that) but also a very good contributer while Iscariot is an asshole to anything that disagrees with him and contributes nothing. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that when your sole purpose is to disturb shit, people might want to boot you out.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:29, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Grim's being kicked out should never have happened, IMNSHO (although I realize I'm probably in the minority here), since it started with people voting him out based on his attitude, but nevertheless, it never would have happened if he hadn't gone all psychotic and tried to seize absolute power. Iscariot, while you may not like his rudeness, has broken no rules of the community and should be dealt with as any other user - that is, not banned until he has exhausted all of these. --Pestolence^(talk) 18:46, 2 June 2009 (BST)

You don't really know the half of the Grim case. Thank you for your input.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:19, 2 June 2009 (BST)

I've tried to keep this polite, but whatever. Did you talk to other users through some kind of super sekrit mind meld during the Grim case? Because I've read through the archives and I'm pretty sure I know enough of what went on to make the statement I just did. Thank you for your input, but kindly ditch the arrogance. --Pestolence^(talk) 21:32, 2 June 2009 (BST)

The wiki isn't the only place on the internet you know. I don't have to have a "super sekrit mind meld" to be able to send Grim an email, or a PM at a forum, or any number of other ways to contact him.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 23:13, 2 June 2009 (BST)

But the information on the wiki is the only official information considered in the case. Whatever, congratulations, you're better informed than me - I still know enough about it to make the statement about it that I did. The arrogant "Thank you for your input", when I'm trying to help out with a VB case (isn't that what users are supposed to do, contribute?) really pissed me off. --Pestolence^(talk) 01:22, 3 June 2009 (BST)

god forbid anyone pisses you off on the internet!! --Cyberbob 05:29, 3 June 2009 (BST)

He's broken this one, actually: an edit not made in a good-faith attempt to improve this wiki. Cyberbob may say it's punishing stupidity, but no one can be that retarded and not be from Conserapedia (pardon my generalization). The only fault in this route (and Grim's) is that it's quite possiblely the more sloppy, messy and drama filled one. I can guarantee the same result if we tried A/PD. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:51, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Meh. I'm not going to get sucked into the drama this will cause, especially since I can't make much difference to the outcome of this case. If this goes to a vote, I'll vote against a ban, but that's all I'm going to do involving this case. --Pestolence^(talk) 18:58, 2 June 2009 (BST)

This won't be a community vote because the community has proven time and time again that the people who are harassed don't count because the people who aren't feel that the harassed just need to suck it up and "ignore the harassers". Which in Iscariots case is pretty damn hard.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:19, 2 June 2009 (BST)

It is not hard, did you seriously just ignore everything I said in that email? They're words on a screen, christ. It's not like he's coming around to your house and pounding on your front door or anything. --Cyberbob 20:21, 2 June 2009 (BST)

It could be the easiest thing in the world, but that doesn't mean it still has to happen .It's also easy to remove him from the wiki when he doesn't deserve to edit here anymore. Anyone should be able to come to this wiki whenever they want and not have to deal with his shit, which if we ignore him as evidenced by this case, he'll throw a fit and harass other users in different arts of the wiki. What did he want? Sysops action to keep a user form doing something he didn't want that user to do. When we said no, he just took the case somewhere else. That's what will keep happening. Ban his ass now, we don't have to deal with him anymore, we won't even have to ignore him, because he'll be gone. Let him stay and his shit keeps piling up no matter what we do.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:35, 2 June 2009 (BST)

haha yase ignore every single rule in the book and ban him... because its easier --Cyberbob 05:23, 3 June 2009 (BST)

K. :D I don't think think a popularity vote would be wise, I meant more like that harassment/arby/mediation policy floating around earlier. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 19:00, 2 June 2009

Well, I can at least vouch that Izzy's been really helpful to me with wiki stuff. This includes bringing things to my attention on the wiki that are relevant to my groups or characters, teaching me things, answering questions, helping with coding, etc. A lot of this is done in IRC. --Fiffy ^{404 ♥ OBR ♥ RRF} 21:27, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Indeed he is helpful to newbies. But the moment you do anything, ANYTHING, that he doesn't like you are on his shit list until the end of time. This case is again an example of his subtle harassment and trolling. He is a discreet bastard, but he will get his eventually. Maybe now is finally that golden day. And his new signature is the icing on this cake of retardity. Anyone who has that much time on their hands to hate the sysop team, should probably go out and see the sun for once.--SirArgo ^Talk 00:59, 3 June 2009 (BST)

You need to crawl back into your hole. You are not intelligent enough to try taking that grizzled-veteran tone. --Cyberbob 05:23, 3 June 2009 (BST)

....From the main page ....

Why the fuck are you bringing my name into this? About the only time I even have dealings with Iscariot is on developing suggestions where his threats to dupe everything are really annoying and his attitude sucks... not even once; that I remember; have we had enough interaction to possibly describe as my "fueling his antagonism" Apart from bob attacking me on the talk page I was going to mostly step back and leave this for the sysops to sort out, its what we don't pay them for. --Honestmistake 08:24, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I was moreso describing the attitude of justifying user's pester-tactics through retaliation. I mistakenly added your name in the context of Iscariot, when I was really specifying your relationship with Cyberbob. I apoligize. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:41, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Apology accepted... and your right about my responding to Cyberbob, but I am trying to give up that habit. --Honestmistake 09:53, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Trying and failing --Cyberbob 10:13, 3 June 2009 (BST)

PERMA-BAN VOTE (Sysops only)

Setting aside whether a Perma-Ban is OTT, exactly what percentage of the Sysops are you looking for in order to enforce a Perma? --Honestmistake 14:07, 3 June 2009 (BST)

According to policy:

the policy said:

If at least three sysops, and at least a two thirds majority of all those voting, vote For, the user is permanently banned.

Linkthewindow  Talk  14:12, 3 June 2009 (BST)

hmmm so you guys are willing to stick to the rules outlined for the vote itself even if you're happy to ignore the part that says the vote may only be called after a monthly ban. congrats, you're only partly special --Cyberbob 14:20, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Yeah but that's for a normal vandal with plenty of escalations while this is what might be termed "Special Circumstances" At the very least I would think it reasonable to push that requirement to include the support of both Crats and possibly an overall majority of all active Sysops.--Honestmistake 14:25, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Ug, just use policy, lazy bums. Less icky. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:31, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Elitism

Doesn't the elitism we're promoting, by making it a sysops only vote, bother anyone?--Imthatguy 06:42, 6 June 2009 (BST)

No, because it isn't elitism. --Cyberbob 06:49, 6 June 2009 (BST)

The permaban vote is a sysops-only ability, and always has been. What bothers me is that you think it should be otherwise. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 06:51, 6 June 2009 (BST)