Developing Suggestions

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Developing Suggestions

This section is for general discussion of suggestions for the game Urban Dead.

It also includes the capacity to pitch suggestions for conversation and feedback.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Resources

• The Frequently Suggested List
• Suggestions Dos and Do Nots

How To Make a Discussion

Adding a New Discussion

To add a general discussion topic, please add a Tier 3 Header (===Example===) below, with your idea or proposal.

Adding a New Suggestion

• To add a new suggestion proposal, copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.
• The process is illustrated in this image.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change.
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past month may be cycled without notice.

Please add new discussions and suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Self Harm

Timestamp: 19:24, 21 August 2010 (BST)

Type: Attacks aimed at self

Scope: Mostly death cultists

Description: There's been a few suggestions that would aid death culting and parachuting in general, such as self-infecting or gunshot suicides, but mostly it's an issue of power, being shot down due to the idea of easier parachuting circumventing barricades, and therefore saving huge amounts of AP. Well, in order to circumvent the AP imbalance, how about allowing a character to attack themselves with a knife (only a knife), same AP cost and damage as attacking another character, only with an 85% to-hit rate. That way, without an infection, a new-revived cultist can spend around 18-20 AP trying to kill themselves, which is, admittedly, a saving on infection - the crucial difference being that an infected parachutist can spend the AP barricading for a pinata, searching for items, or attacking characters or generators, whilst a self-harming character spends the AP with the sole aim of reducing their health. This would be a much weaker way of doing it, but is more reliable in that it can't be FAKed away. The imperfect accuracy is mechanically for balance, and flavour-wise can be explained by using You attempt to slash yourself with your knife, but can't bring yourself to do it. as the miss text. Successful hit text would be You slash yourself with your knife for 2 damage. Numbers are still rough-ish. Thoughts?

Discussion (Self Harm)

Nicely done. Without running the numbers or whatever I'd say it sounds quite reasonable.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 19:26, 21 August 2010 (BST)

Tasteless, and pretty pointless, IMO.--Mallrat ^{TSI TKS CTD} 20:33, 21 August 2010 (BST)

85% accuracy and 2 damage gives 1.7 damage per attack, meaning you can take down 30 hp in 17-18 AP, and 25 hp in 14-15 AP, assuming average success for those numbers. You die faster than you would of infection, and probably stand up with about 30-35 AP, but you do have a point about not spending those pre-death AP on doing anything otherwise useful. Maybe this will get a better reception. --Nuisance 22:48, 21 August 2010 (BST)

In response to the above maths, maybe a drop to 80%. You want it to be just more efficient than infection. Since this would be readily available to anyone, it should be considerably less convenient. Infection can be prevented by a single heal, whereas this would be far more effective. So, yeah, 80% for 19AP, 75% for 20AP. Perhaps 65% would be most appropriate (23AP). Ultimately, it comes down to how much of an advantage you want to give, but I would definitely say that the lack of freedom doign the damage does not balance a substantially lower AP.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 23:05, 21 August 2010 (BST)

65%, 1.3 damage/AP looks okay to me -- maybe not terribly sensible that it's so inconsistent to injure yourself, but it wouldn't leave people standing up with a nearly full AP charge, normally. For folks who don't like infection, though, this could make being infected go by a lot faster. At 2.3 damage/AP it takes about 13 AP to strip off 30 hp, 11ish to take off 25. Then again, presence of infected survivors should be a significant threat. --Nuisance 02:35, 22 August 2010 (BST)

I'm sensing if this gets implemented, we'll be seeing a lot of emo people in Urban Dead soon... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:21, 21 August 2010 (BST)

I like it, both in regards of flavour as in regards of mechanics. There must be some desperate people who'd rather cut themselves than let themselves be eaten by zombies, as well as weird cultists sacrificing themselves to whatever dark power. In other news, I wanna start a new DC group called Judean People's Front Crack Suicide Squad -- Spiderzed▋ 02:43, 22 August 2010 (BST)

Nah. I'm over suicide based suggestions. --

 

 

 

 

02:52, 22 August 2010 (BST)

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Syringe Priming

Timestamp: Warbird108 16:41, 21 August 2010 (BST)

Type: Revivification Modification (skill)

Scope: All Survivors that buy the skill and its prerequisites and have syringes.

Description: I propose allowing survivors with the proper skill (would be added as a subset of Lab Experience) to prime syringes, reducing AP costs at the time of revivification. The act of priming a syringe would cost 5 AP, and reduce the syringe usage cost to 5 AP. (Syringes can still be used un-primed, at the original AP cost of 10). A primed syringe would have a (Primed) note after the item name. This addition would allow survivors to "bank" AP for revivification, allowing more revives to be done in one wave, albeit with a longer delay between revives. Useful for unclogging revive points, reclaiming a suburb, etc. This would add a mechanic not unlike searching for ammo for scientist characters (a primed syringe is a firearm, needing less AP for a "kill" while requiring preparation, whereas an un-primed syringe is a melee weapon: more AP for a "kill" but requiring no banking of AP, besides the AP needed to find the syringe).

Discussion (Syringe Priming)

Hmm. Personally. I'd make one of them cost an additional ap. Probably the revivification. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:44, 21 August 2010 (BST)

Would make clearing salted NTs even more easy than it is already. Also, revives are already too cheap as they are, so I'm not keen on anything that saves even more APs for them (even if it's just banking APs in advance). -- Spiderzed▋ 16:50, 21 August 2010 (BST)

• Hmm...how about if syringes can only be primed in a powered NT (could require specific lab equipment that is only present in NTs), and will become "de-primed" (or become useless completely) if not used in 24 hours or so, a la Aeon17x's suggestion; this would prevent it from being so easy to un-salt an unpowered NT: there would have to be a powered NT nearby in order for the syringes to be viable. Furthermore, this would emphasize NTs as being the key building to bring back online in a ghost/infested suburb. --Warbird108 17:19, 21 August 2010 (BST)

What if they have an expiration date? Like once primed you have to use them within 50 AP 24 hours or it'll go bad. --Aeon17x 16:52, 21 August 2010 (BST)

How about this - syringes that are manufactured (20AP in a powered NT) only cost 5AP to revive with, abd have a different name to differentiate them from regular syringes. That way you can still bank up the AP for a big suicide revive, but it takes a committed effort and makes it a strategic thing and not just a way to make things easier. Spend a week gathering these manufactured syringes and you can easily strafe a ghost town, but for regular revives they aren't worth it. 19:02, 21 August 2010 (BST)

Hmm, I like the idea of giving some point to Manufactured Syringes.--Mallrat ^{TSI TKS CTD} 20:35, 21 August 2010 (BST)

I think that may actually be a dupe, but I can't recall.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 20:59, 21 August 2010 (BST)

I don't know if it's a dupe or not either, but I do like the idea of giving a point to manufactured syringes, beyond just overspending into negative AP if you know you're going to be away from the game for more than 24 hours. --Nuisance 02:28, 22 August 2010 (BST)

---

Reopen Monroeville

Timestamp: -- Jerrel tlk (82nd!) (Project Unwelcome!). 03:21, 20 August 2010 (BST)

Type: City Reopening

Scope: Everyone who misses the old city.

Description: Reopen it for a week or so Kevin! Everyone sure misses the old city. Plus, On top of that, I can't find my old account for it. >.< So, Why the Hell not?

Discussion (Reopen Monroeville)

It's Kevan. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 09:42, 20 August 2010 (BST)

I'd say not. If they reopened Monroe, it would detract a bit from Malton (which already has a dwindling population). Not good. Shadok ^{T Balance is power} 13:08, 20 August 2010 (BST)

Actulley, I hear people complaining all the time they miss monroeville. Kevan could make it to where there was a break in the quarintine fence, and how monroeville will only be open for a few days befor it got fixed.

-- Jerrel tlk _{(82nd!) (Project Unwelcome!)}. 13:11, 20 August 2010 (BST)

Ya. Or make a new city that doesn't share the shit aspects of the other 2 temp ones. --

 

 

 

 

13:14, 20 August 2010 (BST)

Didn't Ross design another city? -- 

•   Timmah!  

•   Talk  

15:24, 20 August 2010 (BST)

Bits and pieces, but its more a brainstorm. Once its done Kev can scroll through and think "I always wanted a maze and an entire suburb thats a big melty clock". --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:07, 20 August 2010 (BST)

It's only 98% melty clock. Also it's all breaking into its constituent parts. For shame, Ross. 23:22, 20 August 2010 (BST)

Implement AHLG's game.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 23:19, 20 August 2010 (BST)

Also yes.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 23:19, 20 August 2010 (BST)

Used Needle

Timestamp: Nuisance 05:53, 17 August 2010 (BST)

Type: New Item

Scope: Survivors

Description: A used needle can be found in the streets (2% search chance) or junkyards (2.5% chance/5% powered). A used needle is also produced any time a NecroTech syringe is expended (whether or not the revive is successful). Players can adjust their settings to automatically discard used needles regardless of whether they're found, or produced through syringe use, if desired. A used needle takes up 2% encumbrance, as a NecroTech syringe. It requires 1 AP to apply, and is expended when applied. Used needles can only be applied to their own users. A survivor who applies a used needle becomes infected, as if bitten by a zombie with the Infectious Bite skill.

Discussion (Used Needle)

An option for the unwillingly alive in the absence of other suicide options (low zombie presence, no access to tall buildings). Could be used for nefarious purposes, but significantly less easy and efficient than an immediate and automatic suicide item. --Nuisance 05:54, 17 August 2010 (BST)

Yes. Fuck yes. Fuck fuck yes. 06:05, 17 August 2010 (BST)

LOL AIDS? Do this one one condition- that the option to NOT keep empty syringes after using syringes is made in Settings (ie you can choose to throw it away once you've tried to rev a zombie) so people that don't want one aren't spammed up. --

 

 

 

 

06:12, 17 August 2010 (BST)

Oh yeah, absolutely. I took that as a given and just forgot to mention it when I wrote this up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nuisance (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Ah, no probs. Just making sure. --

 

 

 

 

06:19, 17 August 2010 (BST)

I guess since this isn't in voting, just being tinkered with as an initial idea, I can go ahead and make that change, here. --Nuisance 06:23, 17 August 2010 (BST) And done. --Nuisance 06:25, 17 August 2010 (BST)

Getting needles should probably be switched off by default. As hilarious as it would be for a newbvivor to click one out of curiosity, it would be a lot more frustrating than getting gangbanged in your sleep. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:32, 21 August 2010 (BST)

That would be a problem (though also funny). What about including a confirm message with warning (like you get when jumping from a tall building) when you try to use them, instead? --Nuisance 13:24, 21 August 2010 (BST)

So, pretty much this would just be used for death cultists to parachute whenever they feel like it. I'm a zombie player, I stand at a revive point, load up on ammo etc, and then when I'm ready to attack the building that I've been struggling to break into, I just waltz in behind the cades, infect myself, and time my death so that I can stand up with near full AP as a zombie and cause havoc. Nice way of circumventing the barricades and controlling precisely when and how you wish to parachute. Overpowered.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 07:49, 17 August 2010 (BST)

I don't know where you've been playing that you can stand around in a populated area with almost no hp and wait around 10 hours for your AP to recharge without being PKed or FAKed, but it sounds like a rather apathetic 'burb. --Nuisance 08:32, 17 August 2010 (BST)

So on the one hand you're saying that this would help players turn into zombies, and on the other hand you're saying people couldn't use this to turn into zombies because they would be healed too quickly. So which is it? You can't eat your cake and have it too.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 12:47, 17 August 2010 (BST)

I'm saying your ignorance is showing. "Just waltz in behind the cades, infect myself, and time my death so that I can stand up with near full AP as a zombie and cause havoc" might be an issue if it didn't take at least 1 AP per hp to die of infection -- in other words, at least 25 for a fresh revivee who started off pre-infected, and who lacks Body Building. In practice, anyone who kills himself in this way will not have anything like near full AP. If this were a 1-AP immediate indoor suicide move like shooting yourself, you'd have a point (and I'd agree that's overpowered), but it's not and you don't.--Nuisance 19:09, 17 August 2010 (BST)

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest, so I'll just rephrase my question. Which is a quicker death, jumping off a building or dying from an infection? I think you know the answer. So I am saying that the only practical application for these needles would be for death cultists who want to parachute. And despite my "ignorance", I would argue that it's not that difficult to time your death from infection to correspond with near full AP. In fact, I do it whenever my zombie character is lucky enough to be revived with an infection. However if players can infect themselves whenever they want then they can parachute whenever they want and they can get behind the barricades as zombies whenever they want, which is overpowered, q.e.d.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 22:16, 17 August 2010 (BST)

That's not an argument so much as a claim, and a pretty meaningless one with no given definition of "near full" AP (I would say no less than 40 AP after arriving inside the building as standing undead), but I digress. Bickering back and forth with anecdotes and vagaries is pointless. Instead, let me ask you a question. This developing suggestion notwithstanding, do you believe parachuting is overpowered in and of itself?

Jumping off a building has nothing to do with this suggestion. For people without Free Running, and people in suburbs that have turned into EHB Fortresses of Doom in the absence of zombies to wear things down, jumping off a building may not be an option, or may require so much running around that dying of infection would be quicker, if they had one. Sadly, yes there are people around deliberately trying to make it impossible to get back to death, probably because they think they can "win". For people that do want to parachute, it would miss the point entirely. --Nuisance 00:13, 18 August 2010 (BST)

I'm actually going to answer your question instead of deflecting. I do not think parachuting is overpowered. I think that your suggestion is overpowered, as I've already outlined in my "claim". No reason to repeat myself. And I do think jumping off a building has something to do with your suggestion.

I'll explain. If you're proposing that zeds need a game change in order to stay dead then I would like to bring up 3 great options that already exist. 1) Jump off a building. 2) Stand outside with your brethren and say "eat me". 3) Get brain rot. If none of these options are available and you really want to help out the semi-dedicated zombie player who finds themselves combat revived in a pristine green EHB suburb with not a single other zombie outside, then perhaps you should suggest some sort of outdoor suicide option.

These needles you propose would really only be used for the nefarious purposes which you hinted at in your intro, by offering zombies a consistent way to circumvent survivors' best defense. --_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 01:24, 18 August 2010 (BST)

The ability to choose when to be infected is not as big a buff as you seem to think it is. Whether you stood up infected, or infected yourself after standing, you still need to spend the AP on burning through the hp you have left, and that's AP not contributing to your ability to "stand up with near full AP as a zombie and cause havoc". Even without Body Building, it takes just over half a day's AP to burn up the hp from being revived. This doesn't change that. In a situation where you could nearly burn yourself out, wait for your AP to recharge to capacity, then finish dying and stand up with near full AP without being FAKed or killed in the meantime (which I still find questionable), there's no significant difference from having stood up infected in the first place, except that it cost you the AP to infect yourself, and the AP used up on acquiring a used needle in the first place. It's difficult to understand your position here, let alone make any attempt to satisfy you, because the basis of your objection seems to be either a misunderstanding of the reality of parachuting, or deliberate falsehood. I asked if you find parachuting overpowered, you say you don't, but I've still not seen much against this idea that isn't either also true of normal infection and parachuting, or simply untrue. Is it just being able to spend your own AP instead of somebody else's (the zombie that bit you) on this that actually bothers you? --Nuisance 01:58, 18 August 2010 (BST)

Pretty much, yeh.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 03:34, 18 August 2010 (BST)

I could be convinced either way on this one.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 09:29, 17 August 2010 (BST)

Any thoughts on the search odds? With Malton's history we should all be knee-deep in these things no matter which block we're in, but I didn't want to make it too easy to search one up, particularly with an alternative method to get them. I kept them out of TRPs out of a desire not to dilute anything critical -- besides, if anywhere observes proper sharps disposal it would be NTs and hospitals.. --Nuisance 09:41, 17 August 2010 (BST)

Personally I don't like the idea but haven't really formaulted why beyond that Misanthropy likes it <jk>. If this is adopted, it should still take 10AP to apply, just like a revival jab. Injecting yourself isn't easy whether it's a clean or dirty needle.--Mallrat ^{TSI TKS CTD} 16:05, 17 August 2010 (BST)

A failed jab costs only 1 AP. The reason the revive cost was increased to 10 AP was because the zombie virus strain mutated (seriously, read the update). Injecting harmanz would not have that drawback.
Also, why not be able to use used needles on others? (Well, apart from the whole skill separation argument…) Infection isn't particularly overpowered. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 18:04, 17 August 2010 (BST)

While it does make sense that you could infect others with used needles, it's just not a can of worms I want to open. You'd have text rapists using it as a new component of their disgusting roleplay, people complaining about how it's an overpowered attack even though you pretty much only die of infection if you do it on purpose, etc. I don't see that any potential benefit outweighs the downsides, and it seemed less contentious to just leave that option out altogether.

I do find it a bit sad that the only people in the game that will do the classic zombie movie move of dropping dead in a "safe" place and then getting up to attack are death cultists and DNP followers, and in practice the dual natures almost never do because it's trivially easy to cure infection if you're playing as a survivor.--Nuisance 19:21, 17 August 2010 (BST)

Question - What if I have an empty needle and I'm in a powered NT, does this mean I can make a new syringe for half the cost since I already have an existing needle?

Another Question - Can I chose to stab others? If so is 1AP fair? In theory I can waltz into a mall, spend the night and then stab 25 people and infect them before just walking away.

Last Question - Assuming I jam a large needle into your neck I would imagine this should do some minor damage to you, so should it get a damage percentage, if your talking its 100% chance to infect someone then is it 100% chance of dealing 1 damage?

I lied - Now the infection itself has been around for quite some time, its a pretty decent theory that some people are going to be more immune to the effects of it, being situations where they have been infected so much their body has started to build immunities to said virus, also some people are just naturally immune to some things, so should this be 100% chance of infecting people, should it be 50% maybe a little more, kinda based on your hand to hand skill (so if I'm better at hand to hand I'm more likely to jam a needle into a major vein or artery versus being a total newb with fighting and I just kinda stab at you with a needle and scratch your finger) -- 

•   Timmah!  

•   Talk  

00:56, 18 August 2010 (BST)

No, these will not speed up producing new syringes. These are contaminated, more likely than not slightly damaged medical waste. Easy enough to prick your finger and get the virus into your blood, but not so easy to sterilize, repair and refill that it would make any significant difference in manufacture time.
"Used needles can only be applied to their own users." I probably do need to find a clearer wording to indicate that these can't be used to infect others, only yourself.
With the rate for finding/producing these, I think it would cost you more AP to acquire 25 needles and use them than it would for others to find and apply 25 FAKs to undo the effects. That said, I still don't think it's a good idea to allow these to be used on other people, regardless of how low the chance to connect the attack is. There's just too much chance for offense, and too little benefit to be worth chancing it. --Nuisance 01:18, 18 August 2010 (BST)

In response to question four: All players have a total and complete infection of the virus at all times. Only when dead, the virus has the opportunity to turn you into a zombie. When revived, you're brought back to life, but the virus remains dormant until you die, giving it the opportunity to continue the cycle. Hence why PKers turn you into a zombie.

When you're bitten by a zombie, you simply fall victim to the huge variety of bacteria that grows in all human mouths, and flourishes when the immune system takes a vacation, hygiene is discarded as useless, and fresh flesh is often present. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:32, 21 August 2010 (BST)

Sounds pretty decent, but for the record I have had some VERY successful searchs for needles in the past, and very unsuccessful ones for FAK's it all depends on the RNG and how many virgins have been sacrificed to it today -- 

•   Timmah!  

•   Talk  

01:29, 18 August 2010 (BST)

Well yes, we've probably all had streaks of good or bad luck, but I think it's probably a better idea to make predictions based on expected averages over time, not the best or worst luck possible. --Nuisance 02:02, 18 August 2010 (BST)

If it allows zombies or DCs to bypass barricades with none of the tedious and difficult risks associated with obtaining a current infection, then I don't like it. Even if this isn't allowed to infect other players, any parachutist can drop into a building with about 20 AP free to start spreading the germs; they even leave the further obstacle of their own removal. I've read the above arguments on parachuting and find myself unswayed. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:11, 21 August 2010 (BST)

Oh god no, it gives zombies a huuuge advantage. --Zamins 07:05, 21 August 2010 (BST)

I'd like you to elaborate on this, please. At this point I've decided I'm just going to flatly ignore the opinions of people who have an issue with DC or parachuting in general, as there can be no satisfying them. But maybe you have a concern that can be addressed reasonably. How do you think this gives zombies a huuuge advantage? --Nuisance 13:22, 21 August 2010 (BST)

What's the point in taking your suggestion here if you're just going to flatly ignore anyone who disagrees? I'd like to suggest an alternative - "monument and carpark suicide: now survivors stranded outside the barricades can climb on top of tall monuments and carpark structures and leap to their deaths. Carparks and monuments cannot be barricaded or ruined as they are outdoors, nor can they be used to free run into other buildings, as they are not close enough to existing structures." This addresses your concern about newb solitary zombies without infection getting combat revived in EHB green suburbs where no other zombies exist (basically an impossible scenario anyway), while also not messing with current parachuting dynamics.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 15:48, 21 August 2010 (BST)

I'm not going to ignore anyone who disagrees. I'm going to ignore anyone who disagrees for the wrong reason. I don't care how you dress it up, when your reaction is essentially a knee-jerk "omg zombee spaiz, this suggestion affects them with them without being a ban or giant nerf and is therefore overpowered!" your opinion is wrong (despite popular belief, they can be) and worthless here. I can't remove culting from the game, nor do I want to, and this discussion is not for the people that would, as they won't be satisfied with anything less than that removal. I do want to be made aware of of any real problems with the idea (particularly any math bits I may have overlooked), but I'm not going to kowtow to simple disapproval of a certain play style.

As an aside, I do like your idea of monument and carpark suicide. While it's clearly just meant to strip the primary benefit out of mine and leave only the secondary stuff, I think it's a good one. Would certainly make being low-level undead in a green 'burb less of a pain in the ass. --Nuisance 22:24, 21 August 2010 (BST)

This basically breaks the significance of barricades, which is a core game mechanic. Right now, parachuting death cultists aren't a significant issue, since they have to coordinate with a zombie in order to gain infection. With this addition, a group of death cultists could sneak into a mall and infect themselves, completely circumventing barricades. Almost game-breaking, to say the least. --Warbird108 16:25, 21 August 2010 (BST)

You do realize a coordinated group of death cultists will have at least one currently-dead member ready and willing to infect them when they need to be, right? And that if they're taking down each other's hp to hasten death, they don't need to be infected in the first place? What are they going to do, get infected, work their way down to 1 hp apiece, hang around till they've got 50 AP again without being attacked or healed, then drop dead and attack with full AP? It doesn't work that way, and if it did it would work just as well with damage by bullets or damage from a standard-issue infection. If this helps any death cultist, it's the independent, not the strike team member, and all it gives them is a slight increase of convenience doing what they can and will do anyway. Where do you get the idea that this will be so much more significant and powerful applied to groups of death cultists? --Nuisance 22:32, 21 August 2010 (BST)

This allows every death cultist to take their infection into their own hands, not only completely removing the zombie from the picture, but also allowing each DC to spend their own AP doing it, without relying on a zombie's chance to miss and total AP. Not only that, but a DC could simply walk into a deserted VSB entry point, stick themselves with a needle, search until they were down to a couple HP, wait for their AP to regen, and then jump into a mall, or other TRP. Parachuting is one of the most griefing tactics in the game, and I see it as akin to PKing. It should not be made easier by facilitating infection.

How often is an entry point deserted for many hours in an area where the TRPs are even active? You seem to want to have it both ways with your objection, when it comes to lying in wait nearly dead and infected, nobody is around, but when it's time to figure damage potential, there are victims aplenty. Which is it? Is the area deserted, or isn't it? As for parachuting being a form of griefing, I disagree, and as I've said before I'm not discarding this simply because you disapprove of a certain play style or tactic. --Nuisance 02:26, 22 August 2010 (BST)

All I'm saying is that a guaranteed infection source, on demand, without having to hook up with a zombie pal is rather overpowered. One could simply scout out how far it would be to free run to whatever place you're going to parachute into, and then get your HP down to exactly that number, while hiding in a deserted building. If the needle had only a small chance of infecting you, with the small search rate, it wouldn't be *that* bad. But a guaranteed infection? That would just be disastrous. But if you're going to advocate parachuting as a legitimate play style and non-griefing tactic, rest assured I'm going to combat revive and ?dump your carcass faster than you can blink an eye. I just think parachuting is one of the cheapest and least realistic play styles in existence. Death Cultism, in regards to taking down barricades, destroying generators, even player killing, are all more realistic than someone "befriending" a zombie, getting it to bite them without it eating their brains, and then knowing exactly when one is going to succumb to the virus, and jumping into a building at that exact moment. There's my two cents, spend it as you will. --Warbird108 06:00, 22 August 2010 (BST)

---

Blood Injection

Timestamp: 5:17AM PDT

Type: New

Scope: Scientist

Description: The scientist is able to deal 50% of the zombie's lv as damage, after requiring a new item (perhaps you can also add it to in-game) blood pack & needle. possibly from necro-labs and hospitals making it 20%chance of finding it? or maybe after you get necro-net access or lab experience just maybe?

Discussion (Blood Injection)

This skill is massively overpowered and stupid.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 13:53, 16 August 2010 (BST)

+1 million 16:22, 16 August 2010 (BST)

Like the concept, and I like the idea of half the zombie's level, but too imba. Would suggest damage equal to half the zombies level but only their zombie skills so the maximum damage they can do is, say 10. And even then you need a chance factor, it can't have 100% hit rate etc. --

 

 

 

 

13:59, 16 August 2010 (BST)

I don't see how any scientist is going to have time to inject a zombie with enough blood to make this sort of difference. Combat revives (ie against unwilling injectees) are stretching credulity already, I just don't see this happening in role-play terms.--Mallrat ^{TSI TKS CTD} 19:26, 16 August 2010 (BST)

Even if it had been typed in English, this would still be monumentally stupid. --Papa Moloch 06:14, 17 August 2010 (BST)

Why would injecting a zombie with blood damage it? After all, their raison d'etre is to slurp on our brainz. Chief Seagull squawk^{Free running!} 15:22, 20 August 2010 (BST)

"lool dood, ima gunna inject som blood in this zombi, an it'l like, asplode." "Couldn't we just shoot it?" "No way dood, that does like no damag at all compered to putting blood in em."--VVV ^RPMBG 05:07, 21 August 2010 (BST)

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Who barricaded?

Timestamp: Zamins 01:29, 12 August 2010 (BST)

Type: Not sure

Scope: Survivors

Description: What I propose is that when we are in the building and the barricade level is raised, like from VSB to HB, that we are able to see who barricaded it, and when. For example: Person A raises building A's barricading level from heavily barricaded to very heavily barricaded. Those in the room would see "Person A raised the barricading level from heavily barricaded to very heavily barricaded." This would allow survivors to see if someone over-barricades. Plus if someone barricaded in real life you would see them do it.

Discussion (Who barricaded?)

Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's Spamoman! Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:33, 12 August 2010 (BST)

Nononononononono. This would hurt culting. 01:34, 12 August 2010 (BST)

I don't quite understand what you guys are talking about. Are you being sarcastic? Are you expressing like or dislike for this idea? --Zamins 01:46, 12 August 2010 (BST)

I'm seriously expressing dislike for this, as the small benefit it gives to survivor play is far smaller than the detriment it would provide to death culting. 01:50, 12 August 2010 (BST)

Death cultists effect Survivor spawns. And life cultists can not effect Zombie spawns. And most of the over barricading is from level 2s with construction. It's completely fair. Death cultists can still PK, knock down barricades, GK, PK, and other things. --Zamins 01:54, 12 August 2010 (BST)

Actually, with effective ZKing, life cultists can provide a valuable asset to survivors. Yes, you're right that they can't affect spawning, but spawn-blocking is among the lowest of priorities to be concerned with in the course of play. Also, regardless of what remains after option X, Y or Z is removed, unless a suggestion has a significant positive impact, either across the board or in terms of aiding unpowered aspects of the game, then it's unlikely that it will pass if it hinders another play style - in essence, you're not going to find huge support for a suggestion that gives with one hand and takes with the other unless it provides a balance, rather than widening a gulf. 02:01, 12 August 2010 (BST)

affects. *adds name to Hit List under English Language Abusers* ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 18:06, 17 August 2010 (BST)

The voices commanded me to link that -- Spiderzed▋ 18:10, 17 August 2010 (BST)

If it's a low priority why not be able to stamp it out? And lets see, if a zombie ZKs a zombie that can scent it and kill it. And access their profile to warn their group and they will be KOS, however the same with death cultists though. This is a small nerf for death cultists, and a small benefit for pro survivors. --Zamins 02:07, 12 August 2010 (BST)

I'd support it. Overbarricading mainly harms newbies, and I feel this would be more of use for educating stupid survivors rather than a hindrance for death cultists which make themselves high visibility targets already simply by killing another survivor. - User:Whitehouse 02:09, 12 August 2010 (BST)

As a former Death Cultist I can honestly say overcading saves you more then you realize. Think about it like this, you make a building VSB so people can enter it, this makes the cades lower and makes it easier for zombies to break them down, by making them EHB death cultists cause more zombies to waste AP on barricade levels. This aside think for a second if your using it for an entrance point so are PKer's and revived cultists, if this is no longer a viable entrance point then they are also left out on the streets and thus doomed to be eaten. Granted death cultists are perfectly okay with being eaten by zombies, PKer's prefer to shoot their victims rather then be dinner.

Also I don't want my feed spammed with useless crap like that. -- 

•   Timmah!  

•   Talk  

02:10, 12 August 2010 (BST)

Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's Spamoman! Also dupe. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:18, 12 August 2010 (BST)

If it saves us more then, why can't we see who did it so we could thank them? Also, there's already an option to ignore all barricading messages. --Zamins 02:14, 12 August 2010 (BST)

A:Why bother? B: What about Joe Newbie who overcades on accident and then you kill him for it? -- 

•   Timmah!  

•   Talk  

02:17, 12 August 2010 (BST)

A: So we can educate newbies who overcade. B: As I've said, we'd educate the newbies.

Re: Colonel and Whitehouse - pinatas are frequently constructed stage by stage, and often by multiple people. The person cading need not be the cultist that shoots and mauls and ruins, and removing the element of stealth from this operation simply to spam the alerts feed is needlessly nerfing it. It's not about simple overcading (which the educated cultist will only use to deny rot revives or prepare a multi-block structure for pinata-ing, not as a tactic in and of itself). 02:18, 12 August 2010 (BST)

I don't understand your pinata example, specifically how this would damage the stealth element of that type of operation. Pinatas are one of the types of operation where all witnesses will have to be eliminated anyway, thus leaving the overcading till after the killing should preserve the stealth element. - User:Whitehouse 03:21, 12 August 2010 (BST)

They can be quite AP intensive, so I've often run them with one person cading, and others, often the more notorious and therefore with less to worry about with detection, splitting the killing. Keeping the cading conspirator out of logs is useful and I don't like the idea of it being nullified as a tactic for no net gain for the game. 03:24, 12 August 2010 (BST)

You do know there's an option to turn off barricading messages already... Right? --Zamins 02:23, 12 August 2010 (BST)

Which means everyone turns them off, which means this is a useless update.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 20:08, 12 August 2010 (BST)

As a VSB hospital administrator I'd keep them on so I'd know who was overcading. You could turn off the messages if you wanted. Not useless at all. --Elingold 20:31, 12 August 2010 (BST)

Well, just to prove my point, I'd find your hospital, take the cades to VSB+2 and repeatedly add and remove levels of the cades all day. You'd quickly get the point.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 20:56, 12 August 2010 (BST)

And if you continued to deny access to the hospital by overcading against the barricade policy and thus put patients and interns at risk, our fine security personnel would invite you to move to another facility :) --Elingold 07:51, 13 August 2010 (BST)

No. For grieifing's sake. --

 

 

 

 

03:30, 12 August 2010 (BST)

Yes Please! Running a teaching hospital at VSB can be such a pain when people keep cading. Many don't understand what they are doing or why it's bad. I'd be nice just to tell them what they are doing and why it hurts the new people --Elingold 05:13, 12 August 2010 (BST)

It's nice when people put rational reasons for their dis/liking an idea rather than the usual "w00t I've been playing for years and answer with zany responses" type crap .. getting fed up with elitists around here. This game is as much for new players as it is anyone else. I like this idea, and see it is a simple inclusion. It may be possible to damage a genny with no one seeing you in a room, but to actually add large desks etc to a barricade? Na, that would stand out. Yes, I know, realism isn't paramount in this game, but this is a good inclusion - --Axemaniac johnson 19:39, 12 August 2010 (BST)

Maybe just one message gets triggered when going past VSB++, much like the message you get warning that more barricading will result in survivors not being able to enter the building. That would reduce the screen spam to a single message when the building goes over VSB++. Something like "Jonny drags a desk over the entry point closing off access to the building" --Elingold 20:47, 12 August 2010 (BST)

That's a good idea. I like it, it's less spammy then mine :P. --Zamins 22:52, 12 August 2010 (BST)

I prefer this alt idea also. Speaking as a relative newb - only been playing since I found the site link on Zombieland - getting trapped outside buildings that according to burb maps were supposed to be entered was a drag. I understand the concept of griefing, but if you continuously make it too hard for newbs to play, they'll quit. Then all you'll have is a slowly dwindling supply of hardcores and the game will die from lack of fresh meat. To paraphrase the Riddler,if you kill them too much, they won't learn nothing.--Sasha belle 02:45, 14 August 2010 (BST)

Why has no one provided the dupe links yet? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:47, 15 August 2010 (BST)

'cause I'm lazy. Spontanously, I'd have that and that. -- Spiderzed▋ 21:25, 15 August 2010 (BST)

God bless you. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:29, 15 August 2010 (BST)

Yeah but those are closed. --Zamins 21:33, 15 August 2010 (BST)

And?--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 21:41, 15 August 2010 (BST)

I understand the frustration of duplicates for those who monitor the wiki day in-day out, but are dupes, never, ever allowed to be reconsidered? Even if the game and its players have changed somewhat over the last 5 years?--Mallrat ^{TSI TKS CTD} 09:21, 16 August 2010 (BST)

Nope, never. Stupid, but that's how it works.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 09:24, 16 August 2010 (BST)

Sure they can. If the game has changed, then that means that the context of the suggestion has changed. Just cite the dupe in the summary and point out why it is different (the context). That said, I'm pretty sure this one has been duped recently, and it's not an idea most people like, I think, since screen spam is...ugh. —Aichon— 09:36, 16 August 2010 (BST)

yeah, we tend to be pretty easy on it now (compared to when suggestions were made like every day), if you believe it's different because of the context and say it in the suggestion, well, usually that's more than enough for the userbase who are voting. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DanceDanceRevolution (talk • contribs) 09:54, 16 August 2010 (BST).

Dupe de doop de dewp. (Ad nauseum, to boot.) ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 18:09, 17 August 2010 (BST)

It's a dupe because it's a good idea. If one message gets sent going over vsb++, and only one that cuts down the screen spam. Also you can choose to ignore those messages, so the screen spam argument doesn't have much merit. As for the griefers boo hoo. This change would help newbies and those dedicated to helping newbies, which has to be good for the long term growth of this game. Also with the addition of safe houses things have changed. You could link the notification to the safehouse only, so you'd know when someone was messing with your 'site lines'. I see no reason why this can't be reconsidered. It's such a minor thing that would make a huge difference for teaching hospitals/PDs and entry point maintenance. --Elingold 19:01, 17 August 2010 (BST)

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Shorter Radio Code

Timestamp: --VVV RPMBG 05:27, 11 August 2010 (BST)

Type: Code simplification

Scope: Radio whores

Description: Now, a radio is represented in the inventory's string of code as BXXXX, where XXXX defines the frequency. However, the frequency indefinably starts with 2. Thus, you could say the code is B2XXX. But why bother having the 2 there at all? All it does is take up an extra character of code, and since each inventory can only have 50 characters of it, that means that it's lowering the potential space by something other than encumbrance. If the 2 was thrown out altogether, and all radios assumed to be on 2X.XX MHz, then it would save more space. You could have 12.5 radios, rather than just 10.

Discussion (Shorter Radio Code)

and since each inventory can only have 50 characters of it, that means that it's lowering the potential space by something other than encumbrance. - I have no idea what this means. —Aichon— 05:36, 11 August 2010 (BST)

Yeah, is there some documentation for this or something? I'm sure that many people's inventories go over 50 characters. Just think of how many letters there are in "shotgun shell" ^.^ Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 05:43, 11 August 2010 (BST)

Only one. r. I suppose I should link to this. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:58, 11 August 2010 (BST)

So, to be clear on this, you're saying that there is another statistic in the game besides encumbrance which dictates how many items we can carry? And that the statistic is based on the number of characters in the code that represents the items we carry? To me, that sounds more like something that should be put up on Bug Reports, since it isn't an obvious feature of the game. If anything, slap it up there and ask that he increase it from VARCHAR(50) to VARCHAR(100) or something in the database. Problem solved without all of this complicated stuff. —Aichon— 06:10, 11 August 2010 (BST)

The slot limit only matters if you're holding multiple radios. Otherwise, it has no effect. The character limit could be increased to 125, however. --VVV ^RPMBG 06:25, 11 August 2010 (BST)

Why only radios? From the description on that page, it sounds to me like it could affect any item which has a code with a length greater than half its encumbrance. Radios are certainly the worst offender, but I would imagine they are by no means the only one. And all of this is based on conjecture anyway. If he built the database using a 3NF design, which is standard practice when dealing with RMDB, then it wouldn't be stored that way at all, which would render all of this discussion moot. —Aichon— 06:45, 11 August 2010 (BST)

It also applies to candy and Christmas lights, yeah. I have no clue clue what your fancy abbreviations mean, though. --VVV ^RPMBG 06:53, 11 August 2010 (BST)

RDMB = Relational Model Database (e.g. mySQL, Oracle, etc.), 3NF = Third Normal Form (which will take a really long time to explain if you don't know what it means...I'd suggest taking a databases course at a local college or else finding some references). Long story short, storing it in the way suggested by that article goes against 3NF, and 3NF is the generally-preferred way of organizing the tables in a database due to the various properties of the design. Assuming he set it up in 3NF, then none of this discussion matters in the least, since the conjectures in that article would be incorrect. I'm not saying they are, however, just that they would be, assuming he followed standard practices. —Aichon— 08:14, 11 August 2010 (BST)

You're forgetting one important thing about Kevan: He's a programmer, not a DBA. And Laziness is one of the Three Assets of a Programmer. ;) ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 20:01, 17 August 2010 (BST)

I'm not sure that is correct. I seem to recall Red have in surplus of 20 pumpkins as well as his regular inventory, and so I'd think that would go over the 50 limit, if that was the case. Also, I don't think a suggestion should be based on an article of maybes as its only reasoning.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 11:49, 11 August 2010 (BST)

The post-encumbrance inventory string limit was experimentally determined to be 400 characters with the aid of crate drop scavenging and verified by multiple persons on multiple characters. I was sure I updated the relevant page… ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 19:56, 17 August 2010 (BST)

So basically this shouldn't be a problem unless you go out of your way to go over the encumb. limit?--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 20:05, 17 August 2010 (BST)

Yup. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 21:00, 17 August 2010 (BST)

I tried this a couple of years ago. I had a character who spent most of its time as a zombie but wanted to listen to as many radio broadcasts as possible. Zombies can't retune radios so the only way to do it is to collect and tune as many radios as possible while alive. I managed to pick up 16 radios. If each takes 5 slots that adds up to 81 slots (if you add 1 for the flak jacket I was carrying.) Maybe the limit has increased since then? --your anal slut wife 12:15, 20 August 2010 (BST)

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Suggestions up for voting

Suggestion:20100814 'Search X Times' Dropdown Box

Gone to voting. All DS discussion has been moved to the suggestion talk page. --

 

 

 

 

09:56, 16 August 2010 (BST)