User talk:WanYao

Nota bene before posting here

Post new comments on top, please. And sign them.

Trolling and drama-whoring will not be tolerated. Any post may be deleted at my sole discretion.

Thanks for your time. ;)

Here is an archive of past discussions.

Sooper Sekrit Link to Classyfried Pr0jectz

Wiki questions

Hey, noticed you seem to handle a lot of the editing on the Dunell Hills and surrounding suburb pages, so figured it'd be best to ask you first: Where is the changing of suburb danger levels actually done? Does it show in the history? I've looked in recent history for both the suburb page itself, and the suburb danger map, but can't see where it's changed. I am a relative wiki amateur however so it might be right under my nose. Just curious as to how I'd determine who changed the suburb level if they didn't leave a note in the recent news section. Thanks -- Peter McGrady ^FoD 01:32, 22 October 2008 (BST) Aha! Knew it'd be somewhere obvious. Thanks for that. -- Peter McGrady ^FoD 04:53, 22 October 2008 (BST)

That can't be good...

I was gonna ask you where you been all my life, then i checked your contribs and noticed you'd only been gone 4 days...how'd you miss out on all the 2 Cool bashing that was going on? It would have been right up your alley too...--x o x o 06:32, 17 October 2008 (BST)

ah j3d, see... see how much you love me? i always said... it was only a matter of time before you saw the light... however, i'm not coming back to this "skene" in any major capacity for a long time. if ever. which means you couldbeat that 3-d repair record we share... which i have to fucking post someday, hmnnnnnnn... --WanYao 06:49, 17 October 2008 (BST)

You? 134? I find that difficult to believe. This skene needs you more than ever, know that we'll always have each other, you can stand under my umbrella, ella, ella. But yeah, why the ditching? --x o x o 11:28, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Great Fire ambiguity

Hey as one of the wikizens around here that has a background with ALiM projects that goes back before the purge, we'd greatly appreciate if you went here and testified. We are asking for witnesses who can confirm the fact that the page, Great Fire of 1912 was indeed created by and largely moderated by myself and User:J3D. The task of claiming our creation over the page is complicated by the fact that no history is available to back up our claim due to the history purge. Thanks for you time.--Nallan (Talk) 08:27, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Mall FAK Rates

Seem to be around 1/5....compile some data on it!--x o x o 12:48, 9 October 2008 (BST)

something like that. shit... i decide to quit UD and all this rawking shit takes place. i should quit UD more often! :) --WanYao 07:08, 10 October 2008 (BST)

Hospital search rates seem about the same, as do gun store search rates. --Jen 03:24, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Building Statuses

I've noticed you've been changing the status of malls to "unknown" if they haven't been updated in two weeks. What's your opinion on buildings in general, that haven't had their status changed in ages? Like, say...this one or this one? Also, there's some buildings that don't even have one of those templates - would it be worthwhile, do you think, to remove "building status" from any non-TRP/non-mobile phone mast buildings, at the very least? As those rarely, if ever get updated, and have no real reason to be updated as things stand? (Well..unless they're the headquarters of group...but those are pretty rare). And in either case...if anyone wants to report the current status of a building, there's also the "current news/current status" subheadings on the page, too. --Jen 03:34, 7 October 2008 (BST)

...is there any reason why pages such as this can't just be deleted from the wiki? Please? They're clutter. Occasionally-updated utterly useless CLUTTER. Maybe that's not a reason for deleting them...but WHY THE HELL were they created in the first place???? The TRP, yeah, I can understand those. But generic buildings, with NO unique history? WHY???? --Jen 07:56, 7 October 2008 (BST)

Some of the wiki's more betterer contributors, including those over at ALiM are trying to lolify some of the stub locations to improve the wiki for everyone. Unfortunately some people are out to stop the wiki from being a better place, see 2 Cool intro paragraph for more info. Anyway they exist for whenever anyone does need to add something to one.--x o x o 11:24, 7 October 2008 (BST)

Please don't use my Talk page for this, J3D. And, Jen, the wiki is pretty piecemeal and inconsistent... And people don't even update malls regularly, NTs and other resource buildings are even worse... But, unless a number of people decide to get rid of Status Reports for non-descripts (which I support in principle, I think), it's probably just goinf to stay the way it is... --WanYao 13:00, 7 October 2008 (BST)

Hmm...how would one go about rallying support for getting rid of Status Reports for non-descripts? --Jen 22:22, 8 October 2008 (BST)

Just delete them off, i doubt anyone would notice. If they did then tell 'em to update it more often, chances are they'll either oblige or let you delete. Leave NT ones though, some of them are updated from time to time.--x o x o 23:36, 8 October 2008 (BST)

Deleting the "status report" thing off the page would only be a superficial fix. Though not one I'm averse to making. Ideally...I'd want to get rid of all the Status Report templates for non-TRP buildings. (Hmm...if I deleted it off the page...would that then make it an unused template, and viable for deletion? *Jen plots evilly*) --Jen 23:45, 8 October 2008 (BST)

Now you're thinking like an evil genius! Just put the subpages all up for deletion, rally the troops (ie me and wan) to vote, then someone else has to do the work of actually going through and deleting them all. Or just do the unused template way, either works :) --x o x o 12:03, 9 October 2008 (BST)

ALiM's Birthday Party

You've been cordially invited to attend ALiM's birthday party at Club Head at 10am GMT on the 18th of October. Festivities will last for a full 24 hours. See here for more details.--Nallan (Talk) 02:16, 7 October 2008 (BST)

What happened???

Has this ever happened to you before? I couldn't use my FAK. And it ate my last FAK, to boot. --Jen 01:06, 6 October 2008 (BST)

Oo thats cool, was it on the 60hp or the 45? Either way unfortunate your FAK got goned :( --x o x o 01:28, 6 October 2008 (BST)

Hmm...actually, it's not cool, as several of the Philosophes have explained to me. *sigh* I've been inordinately careful about avoiding stuff like this, too...it's NOT MY FAULT! *crosses her fingers, runs far, FAR away, and hopes that she's not cursed for life.* --Jen 03:49, 6 October 2008 (BST)

I have no idea why you're coming to me with this stuff!!! :) --WanYao 13:01, 7 October 2008 (BST)

'Cause your awesome and know cool stuff and doesn't afraid of anything. ;) --Jen 22:21, 8 October 2008 (BST)

Your talk page

Seems to be the latest spot for the cool kids to chill, hows it goin' getting those annoying orange bar notifications every 5 seconds? ;) --x o x o 00:11, 6 October 2008 (BST)

Suggestion page?

Are you still active there? I have seen much of you or of that trencherizer fellow. - tylerisfat 22:34, 5 October 2008 (BST)

Newsflash: J3D Rules!

Not only have i gone more negative than any other player of urbandead (might have been overtaken in the last few days but seems unlikely), BUT, i also survived it :D See: here. Of course i couldn't have done it without my trusty buddies jscp, Ash Knott and McCrunchky. --x o x o 06:51, 5 October 2008 (BST)

J3D, I've survived it at a few times ... like the last one, I survived, thanks to the kindness of (mostly) strangers... but, anyway, I'm not all that keen on competetion, othewr than knowing I've got the big one... :P --WanYao 08:42, 5 October 2008 (BST)

Mmm?

Still not interested? -- AHLG T G THE END IS NIGH! 20:07, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Thanks, but no. I am actually less interested than I was 6 months ago, or whenever, when I declined the nomination. And I think that is the correct decision right now, not only for myself, personally -- but also for the wiki in general. If I change my mind sometime down the road, I'll be sure to let you's know. :) --WanYao 21:01, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Malls Safe

WanYao, I've gone to those two malls with my two alts and there are NO zombies anywhere there. I'm not editting it just for the heck of it. It's SAFE and quiet in both those malls and that's what I wrote.

What report are you asking for? I'm confirming that it's SAFE. Almost no zombies and only 2 or 3 pkers for over a week? That's SAFE. "Actual report?" - how much of a report is needed to say that there are no almost no zombies around those malls for a week? With Lumber there's the occasional Feral Undead in the revive point, but other than that - utterly quiet. With the other mall it's even quieter. Only a GKer and the occasional PKer. Where are you that you're disputing that report? --Tselita 16:45, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Then post this information. That's a report. --WanYao 19:49, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Oh, and someone named, I think, Pedentic, used to change Mall statuses to unknown every week without an update. IMO that was excessive. But, is it so much to ask people to post a little report on their fave mall every two weeks, which is how long I let them be before reporting them unknown? I do this not be a jerk, but to encourage people to keep up to date and accurate information on the wiki. Is that so bad? --WanYao 19:53, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Extreme Repair

Can you edit the template (or give me permission to) to include a link to the Extreme Repair talk page or a new page that houses that same info? --x o x o 03:02, 2 October 2008 (BST)

It already has something similar: if you click on the image at the top, it takes you to the main page for the template. Do you think it should go directly to the Talk page? Maybe... or, perhaps better idea is just adding a link off the template page explaining that the entries are on the Talk page... that kind of thing. Thoughts? --WanYao 10:58, 2 October 2008 (BST)

It needs something more, something that takes 'em directly to the gallery of repairs :) --x o x o 11:00, 2 October 2008 (BST)

I dunno... I like it taking them to the actual template page, where it explains what the template is actually, like, about and stuff. The template is already a showing-off thing ;) IMO you don't need to go to the "Gallery" to show off even more. However, I'm cool with emphasising the link to the "gallery" and maybe even calling it a "Gallery"... --WanYao 11:04, 2 October 2008 (BST)

Edited the main page... --WanYao 11:14, 2 October 2008 (BST)

You know what Wan? You're allrrriiigghht.--x o x o 13:18, 2 October 2008 (BST)

What's the record for these extreme repairs? I've done one at 120AP. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:22, 3 October 2008 (BST)

Wan and I each have a 124, i'm fairly sure that's the current record.--x o x o 13:24, 3 October 2008 (BST)

Damn, I should have left it another few days. --

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. <== DDR Approved Editor 13:42, 3 October 2008 (BST)

I think we may be running out of big game prizes...May 28th was the date is started by the way, so the max repair out there should be 129...--x o x o 13:45, 3 October 2008 (BST)

Yes, 124 is the current record as far as I am aware. There were a number of "maxed out" repairs done over the course of this whole thing, too, a couple by me, many by others who often just did them without fanfare. FTR, the entire NW corner is done, has been for a long time. And the DHPD etc. have moved back into the Hills and surrounds... And Easton all survivory now... So there isn't much left... In other words, the "project" has been a success! --WanYao 20:06, 3 October 2008 (BST)

Indeed, this update was just what we needed to take over teh world! And i insist you mention 404 re:dakey.--x o x o 00:49, 4 October 2008 (BST)

Re: RG Entries

OK, I'll try to restrain myself.--William Told 23:08, 1 October 2008 (BST)

I just went through all my old additions to make sure there weren't any problems. --William Told 23:34, 1 October 2008 (BST)

Mock away, sure. I do. But, as I said, there is a difference between (even ruthlessly) mocking someone, and just plain insulting or trolling them. I wanna try to stay on the former side of that... Thanks. --WanYao 20:08, 3 October 2008 (BST)

Ronin Gallery Rules

No problem, and it's a good new rule. :) --Jen 21:26, 1 October 2008 (BST)

Radio Surv.

The overstatement comment was in relation to the "Basically, if you missed Uncle Zeddie, you probably weren't playing Urban Dead for the last year." bit, i've never been able to oblige the whole insult people into agreeance. Anyway i'm replying here because the other location seems to have vanished, funny about that...--x o x o 12:41, 28 September 2008 (BST)

Grim is getting lynched for removing it. I wanna tie fucking noose. When I have a chance... --WanYao 17:09, 28 September 2008 (BST)

White Cell 6

Just got 'em off Ridleybank.--x o x o 07:39, 27 September 2008 (BST)

ugh... thanks... and, yeah, i saw you removing the broken group links! ooooooooh you BADASS! :P --WanYao 07:41, 27 September 2008 (BST)

and ketchupbank.--x o x o 07:43, 27 September 2008 (BST)

39 suburbs... for a group which isn't on the stats page... le sigh... --WanYao 07:44, 27 September 2008 (BST)

I am a badass! Yeah just did every burb. The Boundwood Brigade are the only remaining group that doesn't have a wikipage, but they didn't link either so meh. Also yeah can we fire up the ol' get rid of that section debate...i'm feeling anti it...--x o x o 07:45, 27 September 2008 (BST)

Some groups just seem to want to spam their group name all over the wiki...really makes life difficult for us civil types...--x o x o 07:48, 27 September 2008 (BST)

Combat Revive

That page does need an overhaul. It looks like it was written when they only cost 1AP to rez a zombie...and no one really bothered to seriously fix it later on. So combat revives are still being described as "unfair," even when there's now 10x the cost associated with them (not counting nerfed search rates, which we we were getting for a bit). And people don't seem to understand the difference between a targeted combat revives, and randomly sticking your needle in the head of the nearest zombie. :P COMBAT REVIVES FTW! --Jen 20:04, 26 September 2008 (BST)

I know I worked on it, I've reworked a lot of basic info pages that were a complete effen mess! But I don't think I worked on pros and cons section much... No matter what you may say about the wiki, fact is... when you look at some of the old articles, which hadn't been changed much since early in game... You see that the wiki has actually got a LOT better, and a lot less trenchy that it once was... And I make point of editing out trenchy shit whenever I encounter it... b/c I am, apparently, an NPOV nazi!! However, I take great offense to that: personally, I prefer to think of it as more akin to a state-directed 5-year plan -- intended to assist the transitioning of the wiki community into being NPOV-self-sufficient... ;P --WanYao 20:11, 26 September 2008 (BST)

Hmmm....

Noticed this on Jen's page. Tell me you have an entry on the Ronin Gallery. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 11:29, 26 September 2008 (BST)

Huh? --WanYao 16:53, 26 September 2008 (BST)

The DEM street killing so that bloke has to wear a dress. --

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. <== DDR Approved Editor 20:38, 26 September 2008 (BST)

Can't help ya, not in my beat. --WanYao 01:37, 27 September 2008 (BST)

Eastonwood Ferals

I suck at wiki crap (you've probably noticed). Do you fancy putting EF up for Historical Group status? Should be a walkover vote and I'm sure I won't be the only one who appreciates the chance to give them the status that they deserve. --Papa Moloch 19:52, 25 September 2008 (BST)

I've thunk the same thing, sorta suprised it hasn't happened already. Actually, I don't know exactly how to do that... I could figure it out, though, I know where to look. But probably not exactly atm, sorry. Probably someone will see this, though, and put them up for Historical within the next 8 hours. :P --WanYao 20:25, 25 September 2008 (BST)

I thought about it too, and I've done it. Vote away. --

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. <== DDR Approved Editor 20:26, 25 September 2008 (BST)

It needs to go in the Wiki News thing... People aren't doing that... I don't actually know the link for the Historical voting page... Put in the Wiki News!! --WanYao 20:30, 25 September 2008 (BST)

I make linkypoo, you make news. --

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. <== DDR Approved Editor 20:31, 25 September 2008 (BST)

Also, how can you not know where it is? You voted for The Second Big Bash there. --

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. <== DDR Approved Editor 20:34, 25 September 2008 (BST)

I go there either off the Wiki News, or because I notice something in Recent Changes. --WanYao 20:36, 25 September 2008 (BST)

Excellent stuff. Thanks guys. --Papa Moloch 20:41, 25 September 2008 (BST)

Thanks for the heads-up

Thanks for posting about THREE members of the Imperium doing incredibly stupid stuff on the Ronin Gallery, said members are being called to the carpet for such stupidity. And sorry about this being at the bottom, I clicked on the little plus sign thing, going to move it up. Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}18:39, 25 September 2008 (BST)

As I've said, the Ronin Gallery is for everyone! We're glad to see this information being put to "productive use", and hope that this trend continues -- and ideally grows... ;P --WanYao 19:08, 25 September 2008 (BST)

UZM deletions

Hello, the comment I made was not directed at you. It was more directed at the opinion of Visible One, that tools should not have their separate page (therefore I did not go into the whole connection to groups issue). As for the group impersonation, I just don't see it that way. I do however see that the page must be giving off the wrong signals, as there are so many delete votes. My issues with the page are the name, and how it is written. But in my eyes that does not warrant a deletion. I feel it should be rewritten to make clear it is a tool that is made for ease of access to information. Anyhow, as I'm sure you understand, because of the attention it is getting the page will be deleted, and any discussion is somewhat pointless. BTW: wont this make the current arbitration case (Jorm vs Zeug) pointless? - User:Whitehouse 20:57, 23 September 2008 (BST)

Well, I think my comments etc. were directly applicable to the discussion. And of course we don't have to agree on this... Anyhoo, just for the record there was a HUGE edit war before the page came up for deletions. And Zeug was basically refusing to treat it as a community page -- and it's either a community page, and editable by everyone, or it's a group page, in which case it must be labelled as such -- and permit edits by the community. He was treating it as his own property, basically. Then there's the issue of it being "a technologically adept form of impersonation"... As well as redundant.... etc. etc. Anyway, I think I've already spelled most of this out already in the deletions request... As for the Arby case, there's little I can say about it... Other than it was done after, and independently of, my deletion request... and I have nothing to do with it... though, basically, I agree with Jorm's position, even though that Arby case is not specifically "my fight"... and that I guess it'll all have to sort itself out, one way or another. Hmph... Well, I guess that's all... Cheers. --WanYao 22:15, 23 September 2008 (BST)

White Cell Team 06

http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Talk:White_Cell_Team_06 This isnt my business, Wan Yao, but you could reach more results by using more tact. You first post at the top is, for example, a bit on the agressive and arrogant tone. You are very clear in your post but your tone is a bit unfriendly, and naturally Oreo feels he is attacked and therefore unwillingly to comply with you. Especially since Oreo is clearly a newbie (no offense). A more "Welcome to our wiki" approach would have worked better--MisterGame 15:02, 23 September 2008 (BST)

UZM

Thanks for your input, mate. I've left comments in agreement over on Grim's page. --Papa Moloch 18:12, 21 September 2008 (BST)

Interview?

Hey, this is William Told for the Malton Observer, the DEM newspaper. I was wondering if you'd be willing to give us an interview on the XII/Ronin Gallery. The interview would basically consist of ~5-10 questions and will be on either the upcoming issue or the one after. Please respond on my talk page. --William Told 08:26, 21 September 2008 (BST)

You missed an I.--x o x o 13:53, 21 September 2008 (BST)

Haha, the cemetery gates sound nice, but I would prefer PM's on Brainstock. If this doesn't suit you, just let me know.--William Told 01:59, 22 September 2008 (BST)

Beerhah will do nicely. Also, the new Malton Observer went up sooner than I thought, so your interview will definitely be on next month's edition. --William Told 06:04, 22 September 2008 (BST)

Are you done with the interview? It's been a while since I've heard from you on it, and the paper is coming out in a week or so.--William Told 22:32, 7 October 2008 (BST)

Babah harmanz

Alright, alright! :) You win! All that said, though, I DO have more sympathy for newer players doing this than I do for those level 41s running around. It's immature to want to level up quickly, and in the fastest way possible. And to not stop and think about what wise play style might look like. But it's not something I really blame new players for doing for the first month or two. If they're still adolescents, I don't want to quite try them as adults, I suppose? --Jen 00:22, 21 September 2008 (BST)

Discussion of the 3D ("extreme") repair template

How to hyperlink off an image

Would it be possible for you to include a link to this page within the template itself? (Perhaps in the word "repaired"?) It'd make it much more convenient for people wanting to find out more about triple-digit repairs (and wanting see actual examples of 3D repairs being done). And it'd make it easier for me to find that page when I want to add pictures to it. --Jen 08:14, 18 September 2008 (BST)

Like this?

File:Hoopy Freud The Gilesi Building (100AP).JPG

{{{name}}} repaired {{{building}}} at a cost of {{{many}}} AP.

--Jen 08:38, 18 September 2008 (BST)

Totally! I wanted that, but I didn't know how to do it! I'm still not sure what you did up there, but I am not really awake yet... :| --WanYao 16:17, 18 September 2008 (BST) Actually, I know how to hyperlink text, duh... What I would prefer is a link off either the entire template, or off the image in the top frame. The link in the text turns to the wrong colour -- and it's ugly!!

I can't figure out how to link images, either. And I can't find any examples of people having done it. :( Would changing the text/link color work, as a second-best solution? --Jen 00:52, 19 September 2008 (BST)

Maybe it can't be done... And everyone ignores me on IRC when I ask for wiki help. THE BASTARDS!! ;P --WanYao 00:53, 19 September 2008 (BST)

[[:Image:Example.jpg]]. Or are you talking about hitting the image and having it link to the template page? A normal redirect works.-- AHLG T G THE END IS NIGH! 00:55, 19 September 2008 (BST)

The latter. And a redirect will do that? I don't have the wiki-fu to do that, but I'm sure Wan does. --Jen 00:57, 19 September 2008 (BST)

Yep, a normal redirect on the image page. Also, if you hate the colour of the link, try this. [[Example page|<font color="orange">Example page</font>]]. -- AHLG T G THE END IS NIGH! 00:59, 19 September 2008 (BST)

Damn you's, edit conflicting me on my own Talk page! TWICE now!!! :P Anyhooo... Uhmmmm... that makes no sense to me, Gnome... And, what I meant about the font colour is the colour is changed when you make it a hyperlink. THAT is the colour I hate. I want my HTML back, WAAAAAH! WanYao 01:03, 19 September 2008 (BST)

External links? <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=669809 Target Zombie]</span> -- AHLG T G THE END IS NIGH! 01:08, 19 September 2008 (BST)

So...the image page and all its contents can remain the same...but adding a redirect on the page will allow anyone who clicks on the image to go to the template page, instead of the image page? Where on earth would you add the "#REDIRECT Template:ExtremeRepair" to the image page to allow that? --Jen 01:05, 19 September 2008 (BST)

~~Doesn't work. Just tried it. Lemme mess with it a bit more, though. WanYao 01:06, 19 September 2008 (BST)~~

Fuck me, yeah it does work! BEERHAH! WanYao 01:07, 19 September 2008 (BST)

It does? I'm still getting linked to the image page. :P --Jen 01:09, 19 September 2008 (BST)

Works for me. Try clearing your cookies and cache? WanYao 01:14, 19 September 2008 (BST)

Alright, there it goes! :) As a side note, if we'd had to go with the linked text, the way to get the hyperlink the right color would have been this:

File:Hoopy Freud The Gilesi Building (100AP).JPG

{{{name}}} repaired {{{building}}} at a cost of {{{many}}} AP.

(because I spent 10 minutes figuring it out, and wanted to show off what I found :P) --Jen 01:17, 19 September 2008 (BST)

That doesn't work. And you know why? Because there is a different colour for links un-visited and links visited! So, the since the link is visited for me, it's still awful-looking. I've had this issue trying to make skins for a forum. It's a pain in the ass. I'm sure there is a way around it -- and I could do it in HTML with a very simple style sheet... but on here? Damned if I know... Anyway... Thanks everyone! for you help and interest. BTW ... I actually lived through my 105 AP repair, can you believe that? Now I want one of those 115 AP ones, dammit!! WanYao 01:28, 19 September 2008 (BST)

Huh...maybe it's a browser thing, because it works beautifully for me. :( And there's 115AP repairs around? WHERE???? --Jen 01:32, 19 September 2008 (BST)

Works fine for me too... -- AHLG T G THE END IS NIGH! 01:34, 19 September 2008 (BST)

(Indenting in now...) I passed up a 112 AP repair expecting the Coss Cinema -- because it was dark -- would also be in the teens... I was wrong. Now I am banking apes to go hunt for another big repair. While there are still some left... --WanYao 01:39, 19 September 2008 (BST) And yeah the redirect is fine. The first time it didn't seem to work... Then it did. WanYao 01:40, 19 September 2008 (BST)

re: 100 AP by tylerisfat

Being as i've seen you as a advocate of repairing 100 ap buildings... how do i go about getting a badge done up for my repair job? I'm still not very good at more advanced wiki editing or styling or what have you.

http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beforehk2.png http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aftergs3.png

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tylerisfat (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Oops. sorry about the unsigned. i think i was to concentrated on the screen shots. Thank you for all your help. - tylerisfat 01:08, 19 September 2008 (BST)

Entered... and the template's on your Talk page, isn't it? I think..... WanYao 01:29, 19 September 2008 (BST)

May I join the official-confirmed triple-digit club?

My 91AP repair stopped being impressive a long time ago, so I went looking for a new one... --Jen 22:36, 14 September 2008 (BST)

You're in. Just 3 more years until the 4 digit club may potentially begin!--x o x o 08:39, 15 September 2008 (BST)

Alright...I have all my bragging-rights templates in place now. And I survived the Avery Arms repair! Now I just need to get PKed. ;) --Jen 12:45, 25 September 2008 (BST)

Sorry for the edit drama

But we just had the Ghost Town issue one time too often in Eastonwood. In my opinion the Danger Levels are very flawed and as a matter of fact it's useless to discuss them. Especially since the EF disbands today and will leave Eastonwood for good. Regarding my comment on 2cool and the group order: Of course I didn't wanted the change the alphabetical order but as you probably know Eastonwood and Ridleybank are the only Suburbs which are listing zombie groups above survivor groups. And this is something I didn't like to see changed because of two people. btw thanks for your fair news updates you provided for our suburb. So long! --Experiment211 00:17, 18 September 2008 (BST)

:(

Damn the man!--x o x o 10:15, 15 September 2008 (BST)

not welcome

now that, was funny. yeah, maybe i shouldn't have use vulgarity. either way i'm glad you got i was just fooling around. so can i post on your talk pages again? haha... I understand roleplay perfectly well.. but, is there possibly a way we could change your opinion about being blasphimus of the number XIII? we embrace it to horrify any who come against us. wether they fear superstition, or know the true value and meaning of the number. we are a small section of survivors who bear 13 as a symbol of strenght, power, and fealessness and are unflinchingly loyal to eachother. though devided into smaller groups with seperate goals, we are bound by this, hence, Section 13... Jack ^{S13 T! PC} 16:13, 12 September 2008 (BST)

Question

Hey Wan Yuo, do you mind If I ask you a question? I was wondering if any body ever sujested the idea of being able to look out the windo and see how many zombies are out there. It probally has but I want to make sure. Thanks in advance, Nequa 03:27, 7 September 2008 (BST)

Hundreds of times. Suggest it again and there will be blood. --The Grimch ^{U! E!} 03:32, 7 September 2008 (BST)

Yup... It's called X-Ray Vision, and it's spam. Sides, binoculars do exactly what you describe, but only from tall buildings. Equip yourself with some and try it! and... this belongs at the top of the page, eh? --WanYao 03:36, 7 September 2008 (BST)

A short illumination

Thinking loudly about the Kill BlackReaper page you said the following: This should be a Crit 1 speedy ... practically ... I'm actually game for putting this pointless one-man-army pseudo-group up for deletion... but odds are people would vote keep on it. problem is that there is killdeuswhatever and how many other spammy group pages did this guy make??? -WanYao 03:08, 18 August 2008 (BST)

"killdeuswhatever" is not any of PudgeisImbas spammy group pages but the de facto his "inspiration". After he impudently duplicated our page for his cheap wherefores we decided not to complain about it but rather make a joke of it. I personally wouldn´t mind the deletion of Kill BlackReaper but I would certainly become a little edgy if one day I would have to log in and find out that my group is up for Crit 1 speedy deletions...if you know what I mean. --the wallaby^♥ 08:21, 6 September 2008 (BST)

I barely even remember that "case"... I was probably in a foul mood ;) And I really didn't know who started the "trend" or who ripped the idea off, or anything... I think at the time I believed it all to be different incarnations of the same person/group. I think it was a funny as fuck idea when you's first did it. After that, it had been done, thus any further "incarnations" were imnsho kinda pathetic. Any annoying. Hence my annoyance and grouchiness. ;) That's really all I have to say on the matter... Cheers and happy hunting! --WanYao 09:28, 6 September 2008 (BST)

re: Anti-zerging measures

Posts taken from a discussion on a private :( Beerhah.com forum . This is just a start, obviously... It focuses on Finis, but I think it is generally applicable. It also addresses in depth one way of bypassing securities that can't be dealt with -- but also talks about how we can at least get rid of proxies, which are the most common method by which people zerg. It includes links to proxy lists on the internet.

PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT ON THIS HERE -- unless you have something specifically "technical" to add that will help in implementing anti-zerg measures. This is not here for general discussion, but for informational purposes. However, if you do have such knowledge, please comment! :)

There is some discussion going on on Conndraka's AZM Talk page. If you want to discuss this in more general terms, perhaps that's the best place to go for the moment.

Thanks.

you could have each character store the ip address that it last used, and when the address changes you have to go through an email re-register process. so if your ip changes a lot (to get around the ip limit) you would have to be constantly re-registering, which would be a pain for anyone who uses proxies, without totally blocking them.

This will inconvenience dial up users (and some people with ISPs with annoyingly configured DHCP servers) since their IP changes every time they connect.

But as for blocking proxies, DroneBL and EFnet's blacklist will, used together, detect most open proxies -- with two rather simple DNS lookups per login.

If he's just spoofing his IP then a reverse-DNS lookup should shut him down. Kevan would have to implement that from the web server. I've only ever heard of reverse-DNS lookups in relation to email spam filters, but there's gotta be a way to do it from a web page.

Well... I really doubt that Finis is using only open proxies and TOR. There are some serious issues, and I'm pretty sure that using public proxies to zerg with ~50 alts is impossible... why?

Short example: 1) Let's take one of most known open proxy list - http://proxy4free.com/page1.html 2) Pick up a proxy, open firefox settings and configure it to use that proxy 3) Try to refresh google.com ... connection refused... reset while loading... ? pick a different proxy and try again 4) Try again and again and again... on average you should find a working proxy after checking ~5. 5) Ok... now refresh... hmm - yup - 20 second long lag... you have to get used. 6) Now try to instakill someone by opening 40 tabs with attack links (using various GM scripts or bookmarks) 7) See some 'connection refused' messages...

Ok... now try with TOR - except that you'll have a bigger lag, and your connection will go down less often it will be pretty similar. What I'm trying to say - using public proxies and open anonymity networks like tor is too unreliable to play 50 alts. We have to remember that Finis wins almost every real time combat - it would be impossible with proxies... So... how?

I can see 3 possibilities: 1) commercial, anonymity software/proxies - I seriously doubt - they're really expensive... 2) many IP addresses from different ISPs/networks - also not believable unless he's a really wealthy person... 3) ssh tunnels - it's a cheap and reliable solution - I'll say something more about it:

To use a ssh tunnel you need to have a shell account - very often you can get it for free in your school/work/university if you speak with your network admin. If you have friends working in IT you may try to ask them. Also - many commercial shell accounts are quite cheap (often 5$ - 20$ per year), if you spend some time looking you'll find non-commercial free shell services.

How does it work? Simply - when you have an account you log in via an ssh client, open a tunnel, and configure your browser to use this tunnel like a proxy. It's technically not a proxy, so all proxy-related caching and delay issues don't appear here - in most cases it will slow down our connection by about 0.5 - 1 second without any other noticeable effects.

Benefits of such solution: 1) Your connection looks like it was established from the SSH server, and not from your computer. There is no way to tell if someone is using a tunnel. 2) As said before - it's really cheap (or free) and reliable. 3) Opening SSH connections takes few seconds, if you open many connections before, and use a [censored] firefox extension switching requires 2 clicks with your mouse.

Why do I think that finis is using it: We have few IPs used by him to post on various forums. 3 of them are from different networks in Romania/Bucharest - it suggest using accounts located in his work(s) or provided by his friends (well... the only problem is that I doubt that somebody spending 8 hours per day playing UD may have friends).

How to ban such tunnels... as far as I know there is no way...

I'm not saying that he's not using free HTTP proxies for some of his zergs - we noticed that when http://proxy4free.com/ service wasn't available some of his zergs were much less active.

So... we definitely should think about banning proxies, even if it's not going to stop finis. Using several blacklist will be helpful, but won't block many proxies appearing for 1-2 days (which aren't intended to be public proxies, and their availability is just a result of a misconfiguration). However - we can ban all public proxies - using a known method of scanning every new connecting host on common proxy ports (80, 3128 and 8080) and checking proxy service availability (we don't wanna ban people who just have a HTTP server running in their network = 90% of internet users).

Checking reverse-DNS won't help - it's used by mail servers to verify hostnames of other mail servers in order to avoid relying mail from infected-spam-PCs (all important internet servers have reverse-DNS entries configured, while almost all private PCs (even with public IPs) don't) - it simply allows to tell if it's a well known and configured mail server, or just a PC which was infected by a spam mallware and just pretends to be a mail server. Back to top

synIRC.net also apparently scans for open proxies somehow

you get this message upon logging in:

"synIRC.net will scan your IP for open proxies upon connection to our services."

so it can be done... -WanYao 13:51, 6 September 2008 (BST)

Talk page

Couple of things... 1. I have NO problem with you responding on my talk page to another posters comments... If its applicable open up... 2, Just because I disagree with you doesn't necessarily mean I don't like you. I have some pretty strong beliefs about certain things on the wiki... You beleive differently in regards to some aspects and I respect that. Anyone who can maintain a modecrum of decorum while maintaining their own stances and beliefs is a-ok in my book. I actually do like a good deal of what you have done on the wiki and really wish you had pursued that Mod bid. 3. I would like to see some civility guidelines established but considering the current rules of voting and the propensity of those who actually vote to be opposed to such issues, the Wiki is currently a "Tyranny of the Masses" and is not likely to change in the foreseeable future. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 23:42, 4 September 2008 (BST)

And...

In addition to our encounter with the whole combat revive, it seems you also have an active character who at least visits dulston as well... where i've been trying to wake up the sleepy survivors to the fact that the safest suburb is not, in fact, safe at all. - tylerisfat 02:41, 3 September 2008 (BST)

AZM

Lets see what we can do... if anything. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 21:57, 1 September 2008 (BST)

Well, I'm waiting on whether Kevan will reply to my comment on his Talk page... Beyond that, we shall see... I don't want to get far ahead of ourselves... But I did comment on the AZM Talk page... And noted the existence of thread about this on Beerhah.com dealing with taking a proactive approach to the zerging thing. It was either Viktor Surkhov (sp?) of 404: Barhah Not Found or Murray J Suskind (yup, the former papa of the RRF) who started the discussion, I think the latter, but it was a while ago, and I don't even remember if it was in a general access forum, or in the Beavers' private forums... ;( But it's there... somewhere... --WanYao 17:38, 2 September 2008 (BST)

Wasn't Quite Spam

I've said this to you about a different aspect of spamination already. Please familiarize yourself with the rules on when a suggestion may be spaminated before doing it again. You might also want to pay more attention to whether the votes in the Spam/Dupe section are in fact Spams or just Dupes. The amount of Spams in this suggestion wasn't even half, let alone the two thirds required for spamination by regular users. If you want more liberties in spaminating suggestions, you should know where to get them. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 15:40, 1 September 2008 (BST)

What are you talking about??? 11 Spam/Dupe votes (Technically 10 Spam or Spam/dupes plus 1 plain Dupe), 2 Keep, 3 Kill. That's SPAM. Rules are at least 7 Spam votes and 2/3 of votes being spam. And, the DUPE status was sorta debatable, so I erred on the side of non-dupe. Furthermore, I spaminated the Suggestion well after the 6 hour limit... All these rules that you say I don't know I pulled from memory... And about an hour later, Karek came and confirmed it as Spam, moving and protecting the page.

Seriously, what are you talking about? Please don't make come on to my Talk page and make baseless accusations and snide comments that just have no place being made at all. Ok? Thanks. --WanYao 19:24, 1 September 2008 (BST)

Sorry, got mixed up a bit, as it's actually just a matter of interpreting that one vote while I thought it was much worse. Next time I'll wait until I'm less tired before yelling at people. Sorry. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 20:08, 1 September 2008 (BST)

Apology accepted... :) It's usually a good idea to have a cup 'o joe under your belt and/or a decent night's rest before dealing with the wiki... A lesson I myself have learned the hard way. ;P --WanYao 17:32, 2 September 2008 (BST)

Radio Enlightenment

In 2006, Citizen M claimed the frequency for Enlightened Broadcast (later Enlightenment Radio)
Because I don't feel like digging through the Knights' wiki to find when it was added, Down by Recruitment is a radio template with the frequency
For whatever reason, in 2007, Ekashp changes it to Those Dudes' radio. He gives no notice of it, nor any mention. He just does it. The edits directly before it still show it as Enlightened Broadcast.

And, I might add, I mentioned that Enlightenment Radio is now a Pirate Radio Broadcast. We no longer lay any claim to 27.98, because nobody listens to it. We now broadcast on relevant local channels (relevant meaning: our victims will hear it), and we have been doing so since at least October 2007, when we broadcast a poem to Hildebrand Mall for the Samhain Slaughter. Next time, Wan, look harder, and, like I do at 11:05 AM with a cup of tea and some schnapps, Praise Knowledge! --DT ^PK 19:07, 31 August 2008 (BST)

You yourself say, "Because I don't feel like digging through the Knights' wiki to find when it was added". Exactly! I don't feel like digging through the edit histories, and other various minutiae, of groups I am only peripherally familiar with. And I shouldn't really have to... I don't think that's unreasonable. But, given what I could figure out by a quick poking around the different groups' wiki pages, I corrected what appeared to be an erroneous and/or misleading entry: I couldn't immediately find any information supporting either claim to the station, so I went with what appeared to be the orginal -- therefore most likely "authoritative" version of things. Then I went through the appropriate and polite channels (i.e., your Talk page) in attempt to clear things up. Simple, really. Anyhooo... thanks for your time. Santé! --WanYao 01:00, 1 September 2008 (BST)

Also contacted Those Dudes to see what their take on this is.... --WanYao 02:28, 1 September 2008 (BST)

This misunderstanding has been resolved. However, User:DT is no longer welcome on this Talk page. --WanYao 06:02, 1 September 2008 (BST)

Hey Wan, it's Doom

Just want to let you know, now that the Finis thing is pretty much over, and Santlerville is a good old happy place now, my alts free to do whatever so if you've got anything you need help on I'll send him over. Anywhere (except West Grayside and Wyke Hills, and he can't deal with the MOB crisis in the South, the Watch is already on it), and I can go, or even roll with you if needed.

Also, did someone delete your user page? It's empty save the quote at top, or my browser's got issues.

Oh, I noticed you're changing you user page, hope it looks good. Plus I forgot to sign. --Apocalyptic doom, 30 August 2008, 9:54AM (EST).

Hullo ... Yeah, I'm changing the user page because I am distancing myself from various dramafests... I'll probably add something back to it later on... Also, I can't deal with the Watch seeing as the MOB is in the area atm... But thanks for dropping by! :) --WanYao 20:31, 30 August 2008 (BST)

Wait, 77AP? Is it even possible to fix that? --Apocalyptic doom 10:20, 1 September 2008 (EST)

Reply

About the suggestions talk page, i'm continuing that discussion with you on my talk page, just so you are aware. - tylerisfat 03:29, 29 August 2008 (BST)

replied - tylerisfat 03:37, 29 August 2008 (BST)

and again - tylerisfat 10:09, 29 August 2008 (BST)

yakitty yak, talk talk back...--WanYao 10:20, 29 August 2008 (BST)

Excuse me...

...I would contact you on the appropriate forums, IRC channel, or talk page if I knew exactly which forums, IRC channel, or talk page that you are referring to or I would contact you in-game if had a way to do so. Seeing as how those methods of contacting you are beyond my grasp, I'll contact you here, as the wiki is apparently not too unworthy of your time for you to keep correcting my activity. About that, though your response was a bit aggressive in tone, I just want to clear things up in saying that the spam/vandalism that you've scolded me for has been completely unintentional. If I'm erring, its because I lack editing propriety (which I apparently do), not because I'm trying to manipulate this wiki to suit my own agenda, as you seem to imply.

That said, thank you for your editorial help and correction. I hope that any future correspondence can be on friendlier terms. Finn the Fox 23:36, 24 August 2008 (BST)

Replied. --WanYao 00:19, 25 August 2008 (BST)

http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Suggestion%3A20080825_Searching_In_A_Dark_Building&diff=1258243&oldid=1258242

This is ass, man. A lot of fine suggestions never go through Talk: Suggestions, and Jon doesn't spam the suggestion page; if anything, his suggestions have a better signal to noise ratio than average. A lot of them are quite good, and helpful to zombies. Swiers 22:03, 25 August 2008 (BST)

Strange that you ignore everything he's done for the last 2 years on the suggestions page for things he's claimed to have suggested that were suggested multiple times by multiple people 2-3 years ago. He's gotten better about it since his little self imposed break but you can't seriously be claiming 2007 never happened.--Karek^maps?! 00:08, 26 August 2008 (BST)

I know I haven't been here for very long, and I probably shouldn't even get into this but I can't resist. Do you really thing he had that much to do with any of those things that made it in, if he even had anything at all to do with them? I don't think he's a bad guy, but when it comes to suggestions I don't see how he can go from creating stuff like that to the stuff he's put up recently...--SirArgo ^Talk 00:16, 26 August 2008 (BST)

i was venting... and, yeah, i am well aware that i was totally over-the-fucking top... that was the point... But, sadly, 2007 *did* happen, yeah... and even just a month or two ago he was still spamming the suggestions page almost every day... and he NEVER post ideas to Talk:Suggestions... some of his ideas DO have merit, though, like this one... and that's exactly my point... now, this idea, because it wasn't properly developed and fleshed out, will be an eternal DUPE... Too bad. There are many good reasons why it's strongly recommended that people post an idea to Talk:Suggestions before putting it up for voting... And the fact that Talk:Suggestions is a giant fucking trolls' free for all is deeply regrettable.... but I have a position on how to deal with that kind of stuff... thing is, it's not something that seems to fly very well... and i accept that... though, nope, not without a bit of shitstorm to go along with it... ;P --WanYao 02:00, 26 August 2008 (BST)

I wasn't around for a good chunk of 2007, I think. As for the duping issue- all it takes is he either pulls the suggestion and it gets re-submitted, or it goes to undecided, or some brave sole has the nads to take the dupe brigade to arbitration when the suggestion is notably different, as the guidelines specifically say not to make dupe votes in that case.
And yeah, I do believe he developed a lot of those ideas. I remember voting on them.
And yea, I do understand your frustrations, WanYao, and can even understand why John might be a focus / trigger for them. But really, I think you sorta make yourself look bad by such unmerited attacks.

Swiers 04:54, 26 August 2008 (BST)

The thing is, being calm, nice, reasonable doesn't get you anywhere. I've tried that... Sure, the other calm, nice, mature and resonable people will deal with you in like fashion... But for every one of those, you're going to 2 or 3 fucking twat trolls and spammers... Who completely drown out the former... So you're left with a couple of choices after that: you don't bother anymore, you walk away... or you fight fire with fire and you escalate... Sadly, all three choices suck, and fail.

Frankly, I think the entire Suggestions system is a completely and utterly broken disaster... It's a troll's playground, a complete free for all. I think it really ought to just be shut right down, scrapped... Actually, I've come to pretty much the same conclusion regarding the entire wiki: it's utterly, completely fucking broken, and a free-for all troll's playground... and there's nothing you can do about it. Nothing...

So, yeah... I'm frustrated... Does it show??? ;) But seriously, I believe the wiki is simply broken. Period. It's a joke -- the suggestions thing just happens to be a flashpoint for the disaster, is all... And I respect anyone who actually is trying to slog it through, and take "the high road" -- as you two, swiers and karek, both attempt do... But I don't have the patience for it, I really don't... And, the sad thing is I know I'm not alone. Look at how many good users (including sysops) have walked away... and how many more never get involved in the first place... Serial trolling is killing the wiki; and zerging is killing the game itself... For the moment, I do have the patience to slog through the latter mess, because the game is still fun, and the community is worthwhile... but for how long? I seriously wonder how many more days Urban Dead has left, if something isn't done to fix the wiki and the zerging issue...... Hmph. --WanYao 11:59, 26 August 2008 (BST)

Does it really matter if suggestions is a broken free for all trolls playground? Or the wiki for that matter? Suggestions is junk, maybe it gives kevan ideas for what to implement, maybe it doesn't. Either way changing it wouldn't do jack, it has no real effect on the game and thus is barely worth the time people invest in it now, let alone more than that. As for the wiki, it gets the job done informing your average player about what to do and where to go. imhop that's not a bad effort.--x o x o 12:28, 26 August 2008 (BST)

I don't like how you say that the wiki is a trolls playground, when lets be honest, you spend a large amount of your edits trolling suggestion pages. The other thing that caught me off guard was how you said that being reasonable doesn't get you anywhere. Excuse me but....what do you gain from being shit to everyone who either A) Posts a suggestion and is not in a position of power and b) Posts some POV on a suburb page? It just makes the newbs not want to edit anymore. Most of them don't know what POV is, but you flame them anyway. I know, I was one of them, and you made me want to give up wiki-ing altogether. If you want to complain about the trolls on this wiki, then you need to not be one yourself, not flame people (which starts troll wars, which is a waste of time) and most fucking importantly, be a good user. I don't get your logic in saying the wiki is shit, so you will be shit aswell, because it's easier that way. It's a pathetic attitude.--CyberRead240 12:57, 26 August 2008 (BST)

Also, don't take it as a complete flame, while it is sort of that, it is mostly out of both frustration towards your agenda on this wiki, and because you really, really give me the shits when you comment on suggestions.--CyberRead240 13:00, 26 August 2008 (BST)

Oh come on, as if... Yeah, I can be a dick. I'm the first one to admit that. However there is a huge difference between almost all of my posts -- even the dickish ones -- and the kind of bullshit, asshole trolling that I am talking about. You can tell the difference. Or you really should be able to tell the difference... and if you can't... well... I don't know what to say... And, I'm sorry if you're butthurt because I flamed out on you several months ago over NPOV shit... But you yourself weren't all that upstanding in your comportment in all that... And, frankly, aren't to this day... Meanwhile, outside of the Suggestions page and dealing with a certain degree of snideness towards a particular group's representatives who are well known ASSHOLES... I think I've actually been pretty decent in dealing with NPOV stuff. Not always Dr. Phil meets Oprah in Deanna Troy's chambers for tea, but not the SA wannabe you seem to trying to paint me as .. So, not only are you a very, very dark pot calling a kettle black, you're also not even on base... Yeah... But thanks for the input, have a nice day. Ciao. --WanYao 16:25, 26 August 2008 (BST)

And... re: the suggestions page... Get your facts straight. Go read my contributions. No, go actually FUCKING READ THEM. And go see the many times that I am very constructive... And then look at when I am jerk, and why? I am a jerk when someone posts completely broken garbage... What, am I supposed to be all nice and Oprah to people who don't even do their basic homework? No. Get a grip. Especially considering that you and your buddies are some of the biggest spam-trolls on that page. Give me a break. --WanYao 16:34, 26 August 2008 (BST)

And... User:Sexylegsread you are not welcome on this Talk page. Please do not post here again. --WanYao 16:39, 26 August 2008 (BST)

If I felt WanYao was just another asshole in the crowd, I wouldn't have bothered starting this discussion, Sexylegsread.

Swiers 06:40, 27 August 2008 (BST)

Please, call him Sexy....or Read...if you'd prefer...--x o x o 06:48, 27 August 2008 (BST)

Mr. Read was asked not to post here not because I felt anything that was said above was particularly bad or out of line. Wrong? Misguided? Maybe... No. Rather, I went to the Talk:Suggestions page to poke around... And what did I see? A whole SLEW of "Wan's an asshole" and "Wan's a troll" spam from Mr. Read. Far more than I'd remembered, or expected. I was not impressed... So I made the decision, based on that, that I don't want to talk to him or deal with that. That's the reasoning... And, yeah, I read the post on Sweir's Talk page... And, without abdicating my responsibility for my own actions... The atmosphere of much of this wiki really isn't very conducive for, or fostering to (for me anyway), things constructive... That's really about it, I think that says a enough... --WanYao 07:37, 27 August 2008 (BST)

Thanks, BTW

Thanks for the advice with the whole signing posts thing, I was wondering if there was a quick way to automatically do it, like typing in a few characters and the signature appears.. Your advice was a little ambigous. Thanks. ~Captain Rickety

UDWiki:Image Categorisation

Come on Wan! Me having to tell you where something is on the wiki? You're slipping old man. What what? --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 21:43, 12 August 2008 (BST)

stressful fucking day. i don't wanna think! ;P

I normally dont even cat the images if they arent being used, and then ask a sysop to delete them after two weeks. Its a scheduled deletion or something--Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 22:21, 12 August 2008 (BST)

Category:Unused Images is actually decently helpful. Even if we also have a Special page that does the same thing. It keeps the image out of the way of the other people categorizing images.--Karek^maps?! 22:41, 12 August 2008 (BST)