Suggestion:20070829 Scanning Required for Revives

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20070829 Scanning Required for Revives

SIM Core Map.png Swiers 16:51, 29 August 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type
item change

Suggestion scope
Revivification Syringes, DNA Extractors

Suggestion description

background:

The game currently gives you the option of using a DNA extractor on a contact. Why? If a zombie is in your contact list, you can see whether they are present, and you have a link to thier profile. Scanning them would be redundant, right? Well, yes, it is- until Necrotech updates their computer network to "lock" all syringes unless a DNA sample is fed to the network. This is actually an altruistic plan on Necrotech's part; they have been crunching massive data simulations, and now can optimize revivification procedures based on the results of a DNA scan done immediately prior to revivification. However, the DNA scan MUST be fresh for such optimization to work.

effect:

Syringes would no longer have a drop menu of potential targets. The ONLY way to revive a zombie would be by scanning them an using the "revivify this specimen" option you get after scanning a zombie. The cost for doing this would be dropped from 10 AP to 8 AP.

analysis:

  • Makes brain rotted zombies harder to revive than normal ones, even inside powered NT buildings. Even if you have their contact info, it usually take 4 or so AP to scan them. Then you'd have the 8 AP cost to revive (only in a powered NT, of course).
  • Reduces the chance of "random revives", by ensuring any potential revivification is first checked with a DNA scanner and thus gives a profile link. Revivers can obviously ignore this information if rapid work is desired.
  • Has zero effect on who you can revive, and cuts a net 1 AP from what it costs to do so in most cases.
  • Has almost no effect on who can perform revives, as any character who has NT Lab Expereince can use a scanner, and DNA extractors are either given at character creation, or easily found while searching for syringes. The one affected case would be those few people who perform revives only on contacts and random zombies. They would need to find scanners, if they do not have them.
  • Warning- obscure, mostly of interest to Kevan, but a prety crucial feature - Simplifies inventory HTML code by eliminating the target options list from the form used for NT syringes. That could cut bandwidth and processor load a great deal. Have you ever looked at the code for a reviver who has 20+ syringes and is standing in a crowded mall? Thats 20 very lengthy option lists this suggestion would eliminate from the code. DNA extractors would still have a potentially long option list, but who carries multiple DNA extractors?


Voting Section

Voting Rules
Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped.
# justification ~~~~

Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.


Keep Votes

  1. Keep - a good idea, well developed. -- Pavluk 16:57, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  2. Keep -would help discourage random revives- well, you could still scan and revive no matter what, but at least you see who they're revving. The minus 1-2 AP for revives is mostly countered by the BR penalty, but not entirely- might be just right to balance survivors and zombies 50-50, or at least just 51/52 in favor of survivors. --AlexanderRM 18:08, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  3. Keep/Change - It makes the whole revive thing more realistic and indeed needs less html-space. Only one question: Can you chose a certain zombie (that is in your contact list) for scanning. If not it makes it much harder to revive your contacts in a group of zeds, so that would be a demand to get my keep-vote. -- Cruzz 19:23, 29 August 2007 (BST)
    As noted in the background section, players ALREADY can choose a specific zombie to scan, if that zombie is in their contact list. That being so, revival of contacts and use of revive request lists should not be negatively impacted in any way if this were implemented. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 18:30, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  4. Keep -I like the idea this idea because it would nerf combat/random revives which annoy me. Especially when another character revives your target. --MikhailA 18:42, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  5. Strong Keep - Very nice! Finally a way to make combat revives harder AND take some of that massive revive cost off. Well done. --Hhal 19:13, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  6. Mild Keep - Plausible. Makes having a scanner more important, but that's a one-time cost and isn't too bad. Might be fun. --Pgunn 19:16, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  7. Keep - Meh. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 19:29, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  8. Keep - I don't know why this isn't already in the game. --Howard Bentley 19:41, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  9. Keep - As above. Antitribu 19:54, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  10. Keep--  Savant  Chit-Chat  20:34, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  11. OMG - OMG MAKES SENSE! BoboTalkClown 20:46, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  12. Keep -- Go for it.--Seventythree 21:05, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  13. Keep - Lowering the AP makes all the difference, and I didn't see that --Medico 21:35, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  14. Keep/Fix - So, this decreases the amount of AP for revives WITHOUT nerfing CR'ing? Awesome. EDIT I just noticed now that this also forces the use of a DNA extractor to revive specimens. Since syringes aren't actually connected by any electronical means, can't you make this an option? Then again, this would also mean that reviving zombies with a syringe alone with only cost 8 AP, due to the loss of a scanner. Interesting.... --Private Mark 05:44, 3 September 2007 (BST)
  15. It's only 1 AP savings. Seems kinda minimal, but then any more and you run the risk of the "don't mess with revive rates" arguments of being right.--Pesatyel 04:12, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  16. Keep - Well done, doesn't nerf zeds and lowers AP cost, but there's still one tiny, thing that bothers me. There's no way Necro-Tech could "lock" your syringes. It would make more sense if their employees were afraid to go against procedure because there were "rumours" of what happened to NT employees if they did. Can you say "Test Subject". --Sonofagun18 07:15, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  17. Keep - there is a problem that "revive this speciamen" revives the wrong target. I think i even faced this myself once. It should be fixed before this suggestion is imp-ed --~~~~T''' 09:58, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  18. Keep - Well thought out, a lot of thought was put into this suggestion and the suggestion makes perfect sence.--John Basil 02:19, 31 August 2007 (BST)
  19. Keep - Excellent idea, this shoul definitly be implimented and we can use the data reduction. I especially like how it helps to keep the revive process in character.--Last_Ranger 21:28, 31 August 2007 (PST)
  20. Keep - Makes a lot of sense. Vladimir Kosenko 18.18, 31 August 2007 (BST)
  21. Keep - Mheh. as for the people trying to make this a taboo subject: Kevan reguarly messes with the revive costs already. as this would be implemented by Kevan it would be his choice to do so. shutting down discussions how the game could be improved by declaring a subject taboo is senseless.-- Vista  +1  12:56, 4 September 2007 (BST)
  22. Keep-Saw you were 61% or so, just under PR status, and so I'll call in groupmates to see if I can to get this into its rightful place. Nalikill 21:20, 4 September 2007 (BST)
  23. Keep-It's balanced. It's nice. Sig Sauer.jpg P02 Samuel  Talk to me! Stop that asshole!PoleCatsSig Sauer.jpg 12:39, 7 September 2007 (BST)
  24. Keep Scanners are good. We should dust them off.--Father Thompson 02:55, 10 September 2007 (BST)
  25. Keep - I don't see a problem with this, and I especially like the way it cuts down server load (hey, just because we're not supposed to use server load to justify kill votes doesn't mean we can't use it to justify keep votes). --Reaper with no name TJ! 19:46, 13 September 2007 (BST)
  26. Keep - Whats been said has been said, maybe some slight changes but yeah I like the idea, and perhaps to make it easier to write in: "Syringes are in short supply and only revive serum can be replicated though intrepid survivors are managing to retrofit their scanners to not only scan but inject as well." JD 01:45, 15 September 2007 (BST)
  27. Keep - I usually scan before reviving anyway unless it's one of my contacts. For those nay sayers who've been asking how the syringe would know the difference, I submit that these aren't just run of the mill low tech syringes but state-of-the-art electronic Bluetooth enabled syringes designed to work with the DNA scanners to help populate NecroNet and aid research. --Uncle Bill 09:57, 16 September 2007 (BST)

Kill Votes

  1. Kill - Making this required is a bad idea, I think. Do it if you want, but don't make it required. --Druuuuu 18:17, 29 August 2007 (BST)
    Just to be clear, the main purpose of making scans required is to reduce server load by making the HTML code for inventories simpler and more compact, and to adjust the game flavor so that revives seem like more of a scientific procedure, and less of an ad-hoc combat technique. If you want to revive at random (say for the purpose of clearing a building) or revive a contact, just scan and click "revive" without looking at the profile; you still save an AP doing so. And hey, scanning just might save a needle you would otherwise waste on a rotter. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 18:27, 29 August 2007 (BST)
  2. Kill/Change - I like it pretty much the way it is, but messing with revive rates is a risky business. If the total AP cost was 10 (currently it's 11 AP for scan + revive), you would get my Keep vote. --Steakfish 01:02, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  3. Kill - Messing with revive rates is bad. Play smarter, not dumber. --The Grimch Sysop-U! 01:19, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  4. Almsot Spam - hay guys! Lets go mess with revives rates and create a pointless survivor buff! Then we can go a step up and decrease the ap cost for everything, just because we can! Better yet, destroy zombies altogether! If your update is one sided, it better be either flavor, a correction in something keven forgot, or minor as heck. oh yeah, and DO NOT MESS WITH REVIVE RATES. EVER.--Wooty 02:20, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  5. Kill - Like it or not, combat revives are still a tactic, and quite a few zeds count on them. No. --Thelightguy 04:20, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  6. Kill - This seems to just remove certain strategies from the game. --Pdeq 05:44, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  7. Kill - For an attempt to change revive cost - this is a balance issue and not for us to decide. -- John RubinT! ZG FER 09:01, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  8. Kill - I'd support it if the total cost for the revive stayed the same. As it is now, no.--Nikitis 12:05, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  9. Kill - Not only does it add another cost to survivor revives (this would mean that you've got to DNA extract even your own contacts, even though you already "recoginse" them automatically), it nerfs rotter revive clinics (by adding the huge cost of scanning each rotter) and groups such as... oh, I dunno... brainROT RUM ☣

! The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 12:06 30 August 2007 (BST)

  1. Kill - Don't mess with the cost of revives. --Saluton 15:31, 30 August 2007 (BST)
  2. Kill, with Fire - Back-handed Nerf to Brain Rot; Scan-Revive is 11AP for a reason, in that it avoids wasting Syringes on Brain Rotted zombies. This suggestion goes even further than that, giving a 1AP savings per revive at 100% chance of success. Also makes no sense as there is nothing stopping you from jamming a needle into some random Zed unless you assume that the Syringes are more than just Syringes, which is not a confirmed concept. --Karlsbad 21:44, 30 August 2007 (BST)
    It seems a confirmed concept if you read the flavor text when you revive a brain rotter inside a powered NT. LEDs flash on the side of the syringe as it connects to the Necronet... - do "just syringes" have flashing lights and network connectivity? SIM Core Map.png Swiers 23:22, 31 August 2007 (BST)
    You only respond to one idea out of the whole point? How little of you. I think the Syringes are just that, syringes, until they are used in a Powered NT building, in which you attach to the Network to allow it to work every single time, even on brain rotted zeds. You want us to believe that "syringes" aren't actually "syringes" in this case- if you are going to BS some "flavorful" way to buff survivors, why don't you try putting Rifles in Forts, or Trenchcoats on the streets? There was already a better version of this idea in Peer Review (which uses the "More than meets the eye" Syringes, I admit) [1] but that was a skill, and didn't have the "save our poor survivors" extra AP buff. --Karlsbad 07:10, 3 September 2007 (BST)
    I am in fact the also the author of the PR suggestion you linked to. I think this version is better because it requires scanning- its SILLY to do a scientific procedure with no anaylisis first. As a compensation for the REQUIREMENT (and hence the 4% encumbrance of a scanner) it actually does save an AP. But that's not a "save the survivors" move. And yes, the syringes ARE syringes, they just are high tech ones that have automated pumping mechanisms. The same circuits that cause the LEDS to flash and allow connection to the necronet control that micro-pump, and thus (as noted in the other suggestion) the necronet / DNA scanner can be used to re-program syringe behavior. One suggestion has the individual character doing this re-programing; this one has necrotech themselves doing it. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 16:21, 3 September 2007 (BST)
    Again, you are making an assumption that NecroTech has the ability or motive to conduct such an operation in the name of Science!; I assume that the Survivors have been looting NecroTech supplies instead of acting in their name, and would be able to reverse-engineer any safegaurds, in the same way I assume that Syringes don't have Self-Powered Computers- I enjoyed your other suggestion much more because it takes away the presumption of an All Powerful Necrotech and instead allows characters to choose whether they are scientists in bed with Necrotech OR Scavengers simply trying to Survive and Revive. Furthermore, the increased need for more equipment for Humans effects any single survivor's personal utility. Brain Rot Nerf, Random Revive Nerf, Additional Equipment Required, Faulty Fiction Premise, Revive Rate Change. --Karlsbad 20:49, 4 September 2007 (BST)
  3. Smite this, please God We already HAVE to carry a toolkit to repair building. Now you want to make a DNA Extractor required to revive? Reduce the tool kit's encumbrance, and then we'll talk... Oh, and it really makes no sense... HOW would a syringe tell the difference?--Driaquer 07:33, 1 September 2007 (BST)
  4. Kill Now we can't revive those on our contact list without going through the stack? Sounds like a huge nerf to survivor intragroup revives. Johnny Lunchpail 22:19, 4 September 2007 (BST)
    Not at all the case. You already can select specific targets (anybody on your contact list) using a DNA scanner, just as you can with a syringe. And please, if you are unsure of your reason, don't use it to justify a kill vote- that is what the talk page is for.
  5. Kill The same that Johnny Lunchpail, you spend to much ap reviving your friends. Heric Claussen 22:28, 4 September 2007 (BST)
    Not only can you (already) ignore the stack and selectively scan your friends, but the total cost to revive them would be just 9 AP. If you run out of IP hits doing revives- well, face it, you aren't, because you'd have to revive 50+ people a day to do so. Its not happening when each revive takes 1 IP hit, and won't if each revive takes 2 IP hits. -SIM Core Map.png Swiers 11:23, 5 September 2007 (BST)
  6. Kill Being forced to carry a DNA extractor that weights in at 4% VS -1AP cost? Did I mention this also works against our IP limit?--Richard eiken 23:13, 4 September 2007 (BST)
    Yeah, its almost as bad as being forced to carry a pistol to be able to use a clip. Really, the encumbrance matters not at all to dedicated revivers, and the boost would help them. Casual revivers would maybe need to drop a couple shotgun shells. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 11:23, 5 September 2007 (BST)
    It wouldn't be logical to fire bullets without guns. Neeldes, however, are used to inject. Being forced to carry a DNA extractor if you want to revive isn't appealing either --Richard eiken 16:17, 6 September 2007 (BST)
  7. Screw it. I'm not giving a reason for the rest of my votes in this spree.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 17:24, 9 September 2007 (BST)
  8. People usually scan before reviving. If they don't, it's their problem. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 21:51, 11 September 2007 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

  1. Spam - Forced efficiency, this saves syringes and as such is game breaking in my opinion. Also on rereading, DO NOT MESS WITH REVIVE RATES Honestly I thought you knew better Swiers.--Karekmaps?! 03:24, 30 August 2007 (BST)
    Conversation moved to talk page SIM Core Map.png Swiers 23:24, 31 August 2007 (BST)
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