Suggestion:20090409 NT Ruins Ruin Rotter Revives

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20090409 NT Ruins Ruin Rotter Revives

Stepdown 19:51, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Suggestion type
Improvement - Buildings

Suggestion scope
Brain rotted zombies inside ruined NT buildings

Suggestion description
You are inside a ruined NT Building. The NecroTech logo is set in the wall behind the front desk, and doors open onto powered-down computer rooms and laboratories. The laboratories have been ruined, with broken equipment smashed to the floor. A thin layer of dust covers the debris. The floor is flecked with dried blood.

At the moment simply installing a generator in a ruined NT building allows you to revive a brain rotted zombie. I would suggest that a powered NT building would also need to have the laboratories and equipment required to revive a rotter in tact as well as a power source, it would seem more believable to me that you would need to repair the building before you would be able to revive a zombie.

My suggestion is that zombies with brain rot cannot be revived within a ruined NT building.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep - It is currently nearly impossible for zombies to hold an NT building due to combat reviving. This change would force humans to fight the rotters rather than revive if they want an NT building back. --M4rduK 20:19, 9 April 2009 (BST)
2. Keep - Equipment functioning in a ruined building never made any sense anyways. --Johnny Bass 20:44, 9 April 2009 (BST)
3. Keep - As Johnny Bass. --Papa Moloch 20:59, 9 April 2009 (BST)
4. Keep - The title is a rather good alliteration. The suggestion attached to it isn't bad either. -- Cheese 21:22, 9 April 2009 (BST)
5. Keep - It is strongly recommended that voters justify their vote. Keywords = "Strongly" "Recommend"--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 21:30, 9 April 2009 (BST)
6. Keep - Shy author finally votes --Stepdown 23:34, 9 April 2009 (BST)
7. Keep - Tired of magic kill button survivors get in powered NTs. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 00:04, 10 April 2009 (BST)
8. Keep - It nerfs nothing (survivors can still kill zombies how Kevan intended), yet removes an annoyance to those that wish to play as a zombie. --Roorgh 00:33, 10 April 2009 (BST)
9. Keep - Whaaaat? I thought this was already the case. Now I must make it happen! >=[ D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:56, 10 April 2009 (BST)
10. Keep - Fair and balanced. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 03:28, 10 April 2009 (BST)
11. Keep - "Ruined" implies things don't work.--Necrofeelinya 04:26, 10 April 2009 (BST)
12. Keep - It fights combat reviving, but not in some sort of ridiculously overpowered way, and it makes sense that reviving a zombie with brain rot would need both power and organized equipment. Even as a survivor, I really like this idea. --Fujiko Mine 06:21, 10 April 2009 (BST)
13. Keep - No zombie at full AP can take down 5 survivors so why should a survivor be able to potentially bring down 5 zombies? It balances the One-Survivor-Powerhouse. Furthermore, brain cells are incapable of repair. We start out with a finite amount and lose them steadily in our lifetime. Brain Rot essentially accelerates this process and turns a functioning being into a quasi-sentient zombie. It is inconceivable to think injecting a serum would reverse this because it is not a disease but a natural process. --DTangent 11:16, 10 April 2009 (BST)
14. Keep - As Iscariot. --Haliman - Talk 21:41, 10 April 2009 (BST)
15. Keep - This makes sense. The ease with which 5 or 6 humans can kick and boot 20+ zombies from a ruined NT is pretty sad. As it stands the most important strategic buildings in the game are pretty much untouchable for zombies. --User:HarryHarry 23:22, 10 April 2009 (BST)
16. Keep - The number of survivors that can entirely clear a building of 20+ rotters now is unbalanced. Kill and dump, but not CR. -- Zharni 08:51, 11 April 2009 (BST)
17. Keep - Adds flavor, makes CR more realistic, all around good.--A Zombie ^Talk 02:33, 13 April 2009 (BST)
18. Keep - It is currently nearly impossible for zombies to hold an NT building due to combat reviving. This change would force humans to fight the rotters rather than revive if they want an NT building back. --Dead Welsh Bunny 23:56, 19 April 2009 (BST)
19. Keep - Always wondered why this was not put in from the start.--Zombie Lord 11:02, 21 April 2009 (BST)
20. Keep - From a survivor's perspective this adds more realism to the game. --YoEleven 10:58, 23 April 2009 (BST)
21. Keep - It's all been said at this point. Just adding my voice to the chorus.--Jiangyingzi 15:11, 23 April 2009 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill with fire I am strongly against any type of suggestion that makes brainrot even easier. If you don't want to be revived then purchase the rot and keep clear from NT's. It honestly isn't that hard.--Thadeous Oakley 20:02, 9 April 2009 (BST)
2. Kill Nope not needed. --mo ヽ(´ー｀)ﾉ ^{MCM MOB DB} 20:18, 9 April 2009 (BST)
3. Kill As Oakley -- Conner Martel 20:54, 9 April 2009 (BST)
4. Kill - As I explained on DS, I don't think this would be more believable than the current situation. Also, I like being Combat Revived in ruined NTs. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 21:48, 9 April 2009 (BST)
5. vote changed to... CHANGE While I do so hate my rotter being revived i feel this is pretty harsh on those folk who rotter revives were invented for (rotters who change their mind) at most it should be a chance the revive fails rather than a blanket ban. In any event I still find actual combat revives while trying to clear the building to be the real problem! On further consideration I have decided that I would support this on the sole condition that it went hand in hand with the army/Necrotech commando teams setting up Hardwired revive points in some of the existing NT facilities. Such points would have essential computers shielded from ruin thus ensuring that certain NTs could always function as revive points. --Honestmistake 15:29, 24 April 2009 (BST)
6. Kill with fire - per the other kill voters, especially Thad and Mid. Linkthewindow  Talk  00:02, 10 April 2009 (BST)
7. Kill - It's hard enough now to keep a rot revive point open, plus this little loophole makes a zombie end-game almost impossible -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 02:04 10 April 2009 (BST)
8. Kill - As per the other kill votes it's just not needed if the lights are on the machinery should work, ruin should be structural not functional. --MoonShine 08:29, 10 April 2009 (BST)

   Re: - If the laboratories have been ruined, with broken equipment smashed to the floor then this is very much functional, the suggestion is that the NT should be treated like a normal building in this case. The argument against this in discussion didn't convince many --Stepdown 11:18, 10 April 2009 (BST)

   Re: - That is the flavour text for ruin i'm talking about the actual effects of ruin, but if you want to get fussy have you seen the flavour text for rot revive? "Green LEDs flash along the side of the syringe as it connects to the wireless NecroNet - you push the needle into the back of the zombie's neck and pump the glittering serum into its corrupted brain and spinal cord." I can't see how "sweep lab equipment onto the floor" would impede this. <3 MoonShine 13:19, 12 April 2009 (BST)

9. Kill - Thats the risk a zombie takes by staying in a NT. --Pvt human 08:32, 10 April 2009 (BST)
10. Kill - It's harmful to rotters who actually want to be revived and the genny is portable. When the lights go out in a real hospital or house, portable gennies are frequently used to provide power after natural disasters or power failures. Ruin doesn't mean the bldg can't be used at all, if it were, ruin would be permanent. It would also facilitate griefing certain zombie groups who simply want to camp in Necrotech buildings. *cough* Extinction *cough* --Calista griffin 08:42, 10 April 2009 (BST)

    Re: - This doesn't suggest the building couldn't be used at all, you would still be able to search through the rubble and smashed equipment for useful equipment like syringes. The difference is that as the laboratories and equipment that differentiate the NT from a normal building has been smashed, I can't see why rotter revives are treated differently. As I mentioned in discussion, not sure how holding NT buildings constitutes griefing either. --Stepdown 12:58, 10 April 2009 (BST)

11. Kill - Same as the above, really. The ruins are structural rather than functional, so would have no affect on using a needle, in my opinion. -S Aline 09:04, 10 April 2009 (BST)
12. Kill - There are game balance reasons why this wasn't done and should never be done. --Karek^maps?! 10:38, 10 April 2009 (BST)
13. Kill - i understand your frustration, however, combat reviving is there to balance against the ?rise exploit, also the power of rotters to clog the revive ques at RPs is powerful enough, after all it takes just shy of 62 AP to kill a zed with a pistol (including searching, reloading, misses and hits against flesh rot) and just over 18 AP to revive a zed (including searching and using) thus a rotter outside of an NT cost 3.5 revives (or only 2 if the other zeds in the que kill him).--Jamoecw 13:56, 10 April 2009 (BST)
14. Kill - Unneeded and unbalanced. Also, as Calista. Plus, it's unfair to people who want to run a rotted survivor in a red/gray zone. Combat revives are part of unlife, and are easily dealt with via the nearest window. Player-versus-player games work best when no side can "win". It's all about balance. --Violet Begonia _{Dean MCM MOB} 15:06, 10 April 2009 (BST)
15. Kill - While I appreciate the appeal to logic, you can't force the game to make complete sense. We've all been running on a universal suspension of disbelief since Day 1, that's half the fun. --Pickmansmodel 15:25, 10 April 2009 (BST)
16. Kill - As Pickmansmodel and others. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 16:56, 10 April 2009 (BST)
17. Kill - playing a rotted survivor i know that it is extreamly hard to get him revived. even though this makes sense this would make it all but impossible to get a revive for rotted survivors. --Lt.G Deathnut | TheStayPuftMan 20:54, 10 April 2009 (BST)
18. Kill with fire - That's just a risk the zombie will have to take if they sleep in the Necrotech. —Speels ^{♪ Hard Knock Life} 21:05, 10 April 2009 (BST)
19. Kill - Just stand up, walk back in, and jump. It's that simple. --Rude Sykes 21:08, 10 April 2009 (BST)
20. Kill - As Rude Sykes, Violet B, and others. --Shank Case 21:11, 10 April 2009 (BST)
21. Kill - As Oakley --Ryanon 21:16, 10 April 2009 (BST)
22. Kill - As thad --OrangeGaf ^Talk! 21:33, 10 April 2009 (BST)
23. Kill - Game changing and extremely unbalancing. The route to victory for the zombie hordes would be simply to ruin a very small number of NT buildings, thus effectively preventing any need to do much else. Attrition alone would clear the board of survivors, as they couldn't catch revives in any significant numbers going forward. --BLusk 21:51, 10 April 2009 (BST)
24. Kill - Finally adding my kill vote - reason of mine is honestly just as selfish as proposers one, so at first I didn't even consider rotter clinics having problem with this. I think it is balanced as it is - using ninety (searching included) AP's to CR 5 zed's in NT is suicide enough to be allowed, especially if CR'ed person has to spend only 5 ap's to get back inside standing as zombie. --Alexander Abramov 22:26, 10 April 2009 (BST)
25. Kill - You can access NecroNet in ruined buildings just fine. Realism is not an issue, but consistency is. Besides, the labs are ruined, not the computer rooms. Additionally, this would make zombies horribly overpowered: you can't clear the building of zombies unless you repair it, and you can't repair the building unless you clear it of zombies. Finally, Brain Rot doesn't need more boosts - humans don't have a skill that makes them immune to getting killed outside of cemeteries, now do they? --LaosOman 22:33, 10 April 2009 (BST)

    Re: - As said in the talk discussion, this would not stop zombies being killed, there is no skill that makes it harder to kill zombies. This would only make it harder to revive zombies, who have made a decision to get brain rot to help fend off unwanted revives, there is no equivalent shortcut to turning a zombie to a survivor. --Stepdown 13:20, 11 April 2009 (BST)

    Re: - Let me illustrate my point a little further. Imagine four flesh rotted zombies holding an NT. A survivor will be able to take out one of them, two if he's very lucky. He still won't be able to barricade the building, so once those zombies he took down get up they can just walk right back in with full health. Since the building will be in a constant state of ruin, there will not be enough syringes to supply for the zombies wishing to return to life. Meanwhile, zombies will continue to kill survivors, adding to their numbers. Because there are no syringes, the zombie population will continue increasing, and the survivor population will keep on decreasing. In the end, zombies will win the game, and when zombies win the game, there'll be nothing left to do for them. The game will end. And all because you made Brain Rot more broken than it already is. Frankly, the whole stigma against combat revives is silly anyway. Nobody complains when a zombie makes a survivor dead, but when a survivor makes a zombie alive, it's suddenly wrong because it forces them to spend 2 AP hurling themselves out of a window... --LaosOman 00:10, 12 April 2009 (BST)

26. Kill - As above. If squatting is a legitimate zombie tactic, then CRing squatters is a legitimate survivor tactic. It's obvious that (as Laos) realism is not the issue here and never was. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 23:19, 10 April 2009 (BST)
27. Kill - NecroNet access is wireless IIRC so it makes perfect sense to me for it to work in a ruined building. You wouldn't need any equipment, just power and a syringe. - Love from Swing XOXOX^Talk 02:13, 11 April 2009 (BST)
28. Kill - Strongly over powers zombies. Maybe if a pro-survivor implement was added. --The Great Tatro 02:18, 11 April 2009 (BST)
29. Kill - No. Zombies should learn not to hang around in NTs unless they want a revive. They learned how to talk; they can learn this. NTs are the only source of the only item that keeps the game going. Do not make it harder to retake them. ~ extropymine ^{Talk | NW | 4Corners} 02:23, 11 April 2009 (BST)

    Re: - As I mentioned before, this would not stop you searching for syringes, and it wouldn't stop combat reviving of other zombies. It only affects the brain rotted zombies in a NecroTech building that has been ruined. --Stepdown 13:27, 11 April 2009 (BST)

30. Kill with fire - per the other kill voters, especially Thad and Mid. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 18:25, 12 April 2009 (BST)
31. Kill - You could create 100 Wiki accounts to vote keep for this idea and it will still never happen. Kevan will never make this happen and end the game. --Rocky Road 22:50, 17 April 2009 (BST)
32. Kill with fire - Zombies already have the advantage in building fights, it costs them only 1/6 AP to stand back up with full health, and to repair and barricade a building, you need to clear every zombie out, as long as zombies are somewhat active, clearing them out without Combat Revives is impossible unless you got way more. And if the zombies are active and got APs, it's impossible to clear them out. Try the very same squatter tactic on a non-NT building and it will never be retaken unless the survivors got many more people than the zombies. And if NTs are shut down, survivors will stay dead and the game will be over. --Nehcrum 0:05, 18 April 2009 (CET)
33. Kill - The game is balanced as it is. There is no need to upset the apple cart. As a zombie (albeit a non-rotter), I have no problem being CR'd. As a survivor I have made good use of the CR in a lit NT situation. It is a fair tactic and an unwanted CR can be avoided by simply staying out of the lit NT if you are a rotter. Go jump! --Mrite 23:22, 17 April 2009 (BST)
34. Status Quo Is God. (Also, as Rosslessness.) ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 01:41, 21 April 2009 (BST)
35. Kill- as MriteSorakairi 23:11, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam/Dupe Firstly gennies work in ruined buildings. so do their benefits. Including necronet scans/ mobile phone signals, and rotter revives. This particular moan (Rotter revives) Was voted in Suggestion:20070814 No Genny in Ruined Building and the mechanic is stupid. You have to have a genny in a ruined DARK building for it to be repaired. Therefore the electricity supply, lights and wiring must be working. Why would NT's be different?--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:10, 13 April 2009 (BST)
2. Spam/Dupe See above post ("the mechanic is stupid" onwards). --Rddr 22:44, 17 April 2009 (GMT)