Suggestions/2nd-Jun-2006

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Closed Suggestions

  1. These suggestions are now closed. No more voting or editing is to be done to them.
  2. Suggestions with a rational Vote tally of 2/3 Keeps over total of Keeps, Kills, and Spams will be moved to the Peer Reviewed Suggestions page by a moderator, unless the original author has re-suggested the Suggestion.
  3. Suggestions under the 2/3 proportion but with more or equal Keeps to Kills ration will be moved to the Undecided Suggestions page.
  4. All other Suggestions will be moved to either the Peer Rejected Suggestions page or the Humorous Suggestions page.
  5. Some suggestions may not be moved in a timely manner; moving Suggestions to Peer Reviewed Suggestions page will take higest priority.
  6. Again, DO NOT EDIT THIS PAGE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. It will be used as a historical record and will eventually be locked.
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Recognize Contacts Over the Radio

Timestamp: 00:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
Type: Improvement
Scope: Radios
Description: Radios are a welcome addition to the game but unfortunately have resulted in a great deal of spam. It's not too big a problem, after all you can just refresh the screen to get rid of the messages but it can be hard to find the broadcasts actually worth reading in the morass. Here's my suggestion: when hearing a message broadcast by a contact of yours you are able to recognize their voice, so the radio message is amended to look like this:

(Jon Pyre) 27.35 MHz: "This is your hourly zombie and temperature report. 54° and 285 hungry undead."

That way players could scan down the list of radio messages and find ones sent by their own contacts easily.

Votes

  1. Keep Author vote. A simple suggestion to make spam less troublesome. --Jon Pyre 00:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  2. Keep - I like it. Helps process spam and adds value to using the contacts list. --Jimbo Bob ASSU! 00:33, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  3. Keep Death to spamalot! -- HamsterNinja 00:36, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  4. Keep Why not? - --Rozozag 00:40, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  5. Keep The contact makes the keep. If it is everyone, then I will not like that...as it's not realistic. --Changchad WTFW!SGP 00:43, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  6. Keep - Looks pretty good to me. --A Bothan Spy Mod WTF U! 00:58, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  7. Keep --Dickie Fux 01:05, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  8. Keep - Sounds good. --Bob Hammero TW!U! 01:59, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep - Would allow me to eventually tune in to listen to Channel 4 News and be sure I'm not listening to Wes Mantooth! --McArrowni 02:16, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - It's just a personal preference, as oppposed to an actual flaw in the suggestion, but I like the anonymous, chaotic way radios are working at the minute. --Toejam 02:33, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep - God bless you Jon Pyre - still up to par with your suggestions after all this time. Makes sense that you'd be able to recognize the voices of those you know. And god, please make it easier to decide if I should read the transmissions or just refresh the freaking page.. it's making my eyes bleed the way it is now.. --Blahblahblah
  12. Keep - Another good idea. --Darkstar949 03:58, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  13. Keep - Is that what all that red stuff is pooling on my lap.. Blood?? Man talk about give a child a toy. Hasn't any of these people heard of IRC for God's sake. Good Job Jon.. Keep it up.--Steel Hammer 05:00, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  14. Keep - Good idea! --Abi79 AB 05:39, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill - I think this sugestion will result in more PKing. Anonymous is OK and I belive the spam/chatter will spread over the frequencies in weeks to come. Use phones to contact your contacts. --Spraycan Willy MalTel 08:24, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  16. Keep - Nice idea. It makes sense to recognise voices. -- Krazy Monkey 12:05, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  17. Keep - you have my vote too --kcold W! 14:05, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  18. Keep - Good idea --Mookiemookie 14:42, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  19. Keep - I like it. --Paradox244 16:02, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  20. Keep- Good idea, I like it. @Toejam: It's only your contacts, not everyone, who will show up as named. @Spraycan: This is different from cells in that you can talk to all your contacts in radio range at once. --Burgan 16:07, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  21. Keep - Absolutely yes! I haven't got a radio yet, but I know people who say the spam is irritating. This is a realistic addition that would make the game fairer and less spammy. --Otware 18:35, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  22. Keep - Albrecht Durer said "Help us to recognize your voice, help us not to be allured by the madness of the world..." --LadyAG 19:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  23. Keep - Yes. Agent Heroic 20:02, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  24. Keep - Would come in handy, to know, eg. when your group leader, or an infamous PK speaks --William Raker 20:07, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  25. Kill - and then someone gets a voice changer? --Cah51o 20:27, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  26. Keep - I was thinking the same thing. -- Mia_Kristos 20:32, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  27. Keep - All that can be said has been said. Great idea. --Teksura 01:54, 3 June 2006 (BST)
  28. Keep - This should be implemented pronto.--Vykos 23:44, 4 June 2006 (BST)
  29. Keep - Yes please! - Egglord 11:50, 6 June 2006 (BST)
  30. Keep - Good idea. --Zementh 12:24, 7 June 2006 (BST)

Broadcasting AP Cost

Timestamp: 02:16, 2 June 2006 (BST)
Type: Balance
Scope: Radios
Description: I would reccomend that the AP cost for broadcasting over a radio be increased to 5AP. While not too prohibitive for important broadcasts, the cost of 2.5 hours of AP would hopefully deter much of the spam that currently is clogging the airways. The current system is overly cluttered and I would hope that this could remove some of that clutter.

Votes

  1. Keep Author vote. A simple suggestion to reduce spam. --Arainach 02:16, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill - Wait to see how things work out before suggesting changes. --Bob Hammero TW!U! 02:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  3. Kill - I'd probabably vote "Keep" on this suggestion if you presented it in a few weeks. --Rozozag 02:49, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill - My initial impulse is to recommend you make it 10AP, and vote keep - but I want to wait a few weeks to see if the glamor of spamming the things wears down on its own.. Too soon right now. --Blahblahblah 02:51, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  5. Kill - People are just playing with a new feature. They will get board and stop the madness in a week or so. 343 03:39, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  6. Kill - What 343, if it's still like this in 2 weeks then suggest it again then we'll consider it. - Jedaz 04:03, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - As others have noted, the first day of a new skill is way too soon to decide if it needs alteration. --Jimbo Bob ASSU! 04:25, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - While this spam is about to drive me insane already.. (I am searching for a new home immediately) I agree that it is to soon. I agree with re-present this in a couple of weeks to see how things pan out. --Steel Hammer 04:32, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep - This is a good idea. Also, while it probably is too early to to make suggestions on the recent change, it's funny that no one mentioned that in the popular ones... So can we vote on this stuff, or is it really spam till the change has 'setttled in'? --Raystanwick 08:05, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - Give it a few weeks to let the novelty wear off. --A Bothan Spy Mod WTF U! 08:10, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  11. Kill - Let us try out radios first before suggesting useage cost increases. -- Krazy Monkey 12:06, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  12. Kill - Let the novelty wear off --Mookiemookie 14:34, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  13. Kill - Wait and see about the novelty. If it's this bad a week from now you've got my keep. --Burgan 15:08, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  14. Keep - It is definitely not too early to make this suggestion. Go hang out with Mr. Chatterbox Transmitter for a day if you don't think this change needs to happen right now. --Ember MBR 15:24, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill - Don't want radio spam? Drop your radio. And I'd prefere there to be a skill to use this anyway. David Malfisto 15:29, 2 June 2006 (BST)
    • Illegal re - It's not so easy. Anyone hanging around a transmitter hears the spam, whether or not they have a radio. And apparently survivors have decided turning the transmitter off (forcibly) is a capital offense. --Ember MBR 15:36, 2 June 2006 (BST) Admitting an Re's illegality doesn't excuse it. --A Bothan Spy Mod WTF U! 15:41, 2 June 2006 (BST)
      • Illegal Re - Seems I started a fad. –Xoid 15:47, 2 June 2006 (BST) As above. Xoid, you should know better. --A Bothan Spy Mod WTF U! 15:48, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  16. Kill - dont want radio spam, dont tune it in to spam FM--xbehave 15:35, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill -- Mia_Kristos 20:32, 2 June 2006 (BST)

Zombie talk understanding

Spaminated with 7 spam votes/10 total votes. Most voters noted that zombies can not hear the radio as it is. --Bob Hammero TW!U! 21:55, 2 June 2006 (BST)


Electronic Repair

Timestamp: 11:36, 2 June 2006 (BST)
Type: Skill
Scope: Survivors
Description: A new skill called Electronic Repair with Construction as a PreRequesite allows a survivor with Wirecutters to attempt to repair a recently destroyed transmitter or generator. This would only work if the building was not Ransacked and a new generator or tranmitter had not been set up. The destroyed Transmitter/Generator will only stay in place for one server cycle which I think is 24 hours.

There is a 50% chance of repairing the transmitter/generator and a 50% chance of failing to repair it. If you fail there is a 10% chance that you will break your wirecutters and a 10% chance you will damage the generator/transmitter beyond repair.
There is a 10% of gaining 1XP from a successful repair. This is equal to gaining XP from a book and will reduce potential abuse and use of the skill for XP Farming.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author vote. I'd really like to see a positive use for Wirecutters. -- Krazy Monkey 11:36, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  2. Keep - Very usefull, in fact a Z could not be able to full destroy a generator, same with 2 hits from a crowbar. Because of that there should be levels of damage (shot holes are harder to repair than some crowbat hits), depending of the damage it will cost more or less repairing it and every repair phase could have diferent chance of success -- Tito Pulo 12:42, 2 June 2006
  3. Keep - So, zombies just need to ransack building after destroying transmitter/generator? Anyway, that's ok. Makes sense --EnForcer32 11:52, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  4. Keep - I like it. It would give a use to the redundant wirecutters --HerrStefantheGreat 11:59, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  5. Keep - I like it as well. It's better then an idea I had to do with wire cutters and generators. *snip* hey the power went out! You get the idea. - Jedaz 12:11, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  6. Keep - An interesting idea. Would make wirecutters useful again, and ransack a bit nastier. Maybe a slight lowering of the percentage to find a generator to compensate for the higher difficulty of destroying them. –Xoid 12:24, 2 June 2006 (BST) Spam - See John Ember's insightful comments. –Xoid 16:32, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  7. Keep - Intriguing. --A Bothan Spy Mod WTF U! 12:32, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - I dont like to play the realism card (hey look, zombie), but repairing something that's been shot, smashed, and/or axed with wire cutters? No thanks. -- Mia Kristos 12:40, 2 June 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Yeah, it may seem a bit weird but its a zombie apocalpyse, you have to make do with what you have and a fair few players have wirecutters as they started as firefighters. -- Krazy Monkey 12:48, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep-Gives wirecutters a use.Sure sounds good to me.--LCpl Mendoza 13:14, 2 June 2006 (BST)WTF
  10. Keep - Sounds like a good idea but.. Wirecutters? I don't see how something that was destroyed externally and internally could be repaired by wirecutters. Still a good idea. -- ZedKilla 13:17, 2 June 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Well these thing have wires in them so I just thought it would be useful to make use of an existing item that at the moment has no use. -- Krazy Monkey 13:47, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep - great !!!--Kcold 14:13, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  12. Keep - A good use for wirecutters. Yay! --Abi79 AB 14:17, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  13. Keep - Makes Ransack more useful, and gives some use for the wirecutters. However, It does seem as if GKers will be nerfed by this...After all, they smash a Generator? So what? Some guy with wirecutters come and repairs it...Spam-Too overpowered. Reverend Loki and John Ember has convinced me.--ShadowScope 14:23, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  14. Spam - I can't believe the number of keeps this is getting. This would make destroying generators near fucking useless. Generators give waaay too many powerful benefits for them to be near-invincible like you're suggesting. It takes a zombie on average 4 or 5 AP to destroy a generator, and you're suggesting that someone can come right along behind and repair it for 2. And any location that really benefits from being powered isn't going to have a broken generator for long. Why not just power every building in the game and call it a day --Mookiemookie 14:39, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  15. Keep - Personaly I think that Wirecutters should be a requirement to install a generator in the first place, espescially considering installing them in real life tying them to a buildings circuit. oh and Mookie...we're working on it. Conndrakamod T W! 15:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  16. Kill - I really like the idea, but I don't like the numbers. I feel chance of repair/permanently break a device should be: generator = 30%/10%, radio transmitter = 25%/25%; and wire cutters should have a 5% chance of being destroyed. All these chances would be independent - you could have any combination of device fixed/still broke/permanently broke + cutters safe/destroyed. Chance for XP gain is spot on, though. --Reverend Loki 15:10, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - Thanks for trying with the wirecutters, but besides making no sense, this is entirely unnecessary. Generators are very powerful right now (pardon the pun), and finding generators/fuel is what balances them. --Burgan 15:15, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  18. Spam - As Mookie. Get a few survivors in the room with this skill and the generator is now invincible. And have you been in a building with a running transmitter? Trust me -- those things deserve to die. A lot. --Ember MBR 15:16, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill - Tonight on Stargate SG1, Jack O'Neil will attempt to fix the DHD using only his trusty swiss army knife, a gun with no bullets, the bullets, some stickey back plastic and 3 McGuyver script writers. This suggestion is far too powerful. Make a failed repair an automatic loss of the genny and you've got my vote. David Malfisto 15:34, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  20. keep - Not bad, id rather see a zombie improvment before this tho--xbehave 15:37, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  21. Keep - Seems nice, but i would like to see a (lots of) zombie upgrades now. --hagnat mod 18:03, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  22. Spam - No invincible generators - Timid Dan 18:33, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  23. Keep - Nice idea. I'll be happier if you don't break the wirecutters though. Why on earth should that happen? --Otware 18:37, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  24. Kill - Absolutely not! Generators are rare for a reason. No need to grief zombies even more! @Otware, if the wirecutters didn't break, this would be even more obscenely overpowered. --Pinpoint 19:15, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  25. Kill/Spam/Abort - Maybe if it only applied to transmitters, but making functionally permanent generators is way too powerful. --Dickie Fux 19:21, 2 June 2006 (BST)
    • You're only allowed one vote. Extra votes struck out (and Abort is not a valid vote). If you want a different vote than Kill, you need to change it. --Bob Hammero TW!U! 22:05, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  26. Spam - once a generator destroyed it is gone. Nothing to repair --Cah51o 20:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  27. Spam - Invincible Generators FTW. Sonny Corleone WTF 20:55, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  28. Spam - No way, this would make generators way too powerful. --Bob Hammero TW!U! 22:05, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  29. Kill - No Invincible Generators- Survivors don't need the boost! --Karlsbad 22:18, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  30. Spam - Stupid idea. You want to buff up the human? Try playing a survivor apocolypse. --Changchad WTFW!SGP 22:32, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  31. Spam - Ooh, ooh, I know! Smashing generators should also cause zombies to headshot themselves with the shrapnel! Then this'd really be balanced. --Jimbo Bob ASSU! 22:40, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  32. Kill Too strong. I'd suggest weakening it, but if it were just strong enough, searching for a new generator would be a better use of AP. --Ron Burgundy 23:00, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  33. Kill - I like that you are trying to give wirecutters a use.. but this is hella overpowered. --Blahblahblah 00:12, 3 June 2006 (BST)
  34. Kill - I don't have a problem with repairing the generator. I DO have a problem with THIS way of doing it. 50% chance to repair? And only a 10% chance to damage? Lower the success a LOT (say, at most 25%, but 15% would be better) and any unsucessful repair automatically destroys the generator. I like the use of the wirecutters, but drop the XP bonus. Survivors do NOT need another XP outlet.--Pesatyel 05:09, 3 June 2006 (BST)
  35. Keep For everyone saying this is overpowered, keep in mind that a simple ransacking destorys the chance. Is 1 AP really going to hurt you? Ybbor 21:27, 6 June 2006 (BST)
  36. Kill Survivors should not be able to repair generators that are destroyed. This is uneeded and makes it harder for Zombies to be effective against NecroTech buildings. If anything, there should a label in game that shows if a generator or transmitter is damaged or not. If it is, survivors have a chance to repair it with wirecutters, or make another item (I.E. Toolkit, whatever) since wirecutters are completely useless now. Then it has percentages to destroy it, repair it, etc. Sorry I went of subject, but KILL the SUGGESTION. --Kamron 16:55 10 June 2006 (BST)
      • Tally - 15 Keep, 11 Kill, 10 Spam. 35 total. --

Radio Log

Timestamp: 18:24, 2 June 2006 (BST)
Type: improvement
Scope: Wiki Users
Description: It would be nice to have a log of what is said on each channel funneled somewhere on the Wiki. To discourage cheating, the logs should only be accessable a week after they are saved. This would allow trend studies of how the radios are used.

It could be a page that just has each individual radio station on it. Clicking on one takes you to the archives, arranged by year, month, week.

Every 24 hour cycle, everything broadcast on a particular frequency is saved as a text file, compiled into a file named channel-week, for example:

2715-June-1-2006.txt

2715-June-2-2006.txt

2715-June-3-2006.txt

2715-June-4-2006.txt

2715-July-1-2006.txt


If it makes life easier, it can be done by the day.

I'm sure the actual mechanics of this are not that difficult.

This is a suggestion mostly for the data crunchers in world.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author vote. More info = ++Good. -- Zizanie13 18:24, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  2. Spam - Just huge amount of spam --EnForcer32 18:45, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  3. Abstain - Isn't the place for this suggestion but its an interesting idea. -- Krazy Monkey W! 18:46, 2 June 2006 (BST)
    • RE I wasn't sure if this was the place to propose it or not, if you have a better place to post it, please let me know. -- Zizanie13 22:40, 2 June 2006 (BST)
    Invalid vote removed. Abstain is not a valid vote. --Bob Hammero TW!U! 22:10, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  4. Spam - There are ways to track radio usage without saving every inane comment broadcast on them. --Ember MBR 18:52, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  5. Spam - A terrabyte of "ZOMG EVRY1 IN RADIO LAND: YOUR MOM IS A HOOOOOOORE!" Lovely. --Mookiemookie 20:30, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  6. SuperUberSpaminationattack!!!!!! - I beileve this suggestion should be lit on fire by hippy nudists, and the ashes promptly fed to Zizanie13. This Must Die!!! --Mrh cow 20:39, 2 June 2006 (BST)
    Invalid vote removed. SuperUberSpaminationattack!!!!!! is not a valid vote. --Bob Hammero TW!U! 22:10, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill After seeing the quality of most radio messages I don't want them saved forever. --Jon Pyre 21:16, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  8. Spam - We really don't need all of that saved. --Bob Hammero TW!U! 22:10, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  9. Spam -really now that would be a waste of space.--LCpl Mendoza 22:29, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  10. Spam - Spam for the spamworthy suggestion to encourage spam to be saved. --Changchad WTFW!SGP 22:30, 2 June 2006 (BST)
    • RE To all of you spammers, YES, I agree most of drivel put out over the airways is bunk. However, aside from zerging, this is a simple to implement idea for those who don't mind having to go through the spam in search of whatever they are looking for. No one is asking any of you to do it. However, if someone were up to combing through all of that crap, it would be there for them. Zizanie13 22:40, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  11. Spam - Are you being serious? --Blahblahblah 00:14, 3 June 2006 (BST)

Ear Tuning

Timestamp: 18:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
Type: Skill
Scope: Zombies
Description: After hearing only static from radios before, some zombies due to a mutation (seemingly caused by the radio waves themselves) have adapted their hearing to be able to hear the human radio broadcasts.

This skill appears in the Memories of Life Tree and allows zombies to hear the radio messages sent by survivors. Like all zombies skills it will cost 100XP.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author vote. I was a bit disappointed when I found out my zombie couldn't hear the radio. He was so looking forward to dancing to Britney Spears. :) -- Krazy Monkey W! 18:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  2. Spam - Another Spam --EnForcer32 18:46, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  3. Keep - I like it --ramby T--W! - SGP 18:47, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  4. Spam - Let the humans have their radio spam. If this skill appeared, it would be the one skill I would refuse to take. --Ember MBR 18:49, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  5. Spam - Hearing != interpreting radio waves. Zombies shouldn't be getting smarter as they get deader. --Burgan 20:27, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  6. Kill - Soz monkeyman (I mean, Krazy Monkey) but I just don't like it. --HerrStefantheGreat 20:29, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - WTF, man? -- Mia_Kristos 20:36, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill Zombies can't hear radiation. --Jon Pyre 20:49, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  9. Spam - Magic zombies are bad, OK? --Bob Hammero TW!U! 22:12, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  10. Spam - Screw this shit. Zombies do not want to be spammed. And plus, why a skill? If zombies need a skill to listen to crap. I want to see humans learn a skill to do radio broadcast and listen to the radio. --Changchad WTFW!SGP 22:26, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  11. Spam - Zombies shoudn't be able to read frequencies as if they had a radio jammed up their cranium (or somewhere else for that matter). They should be able to hear it normally though, or call for more paramedics :P --McArrowni 22:43, 2 June 2006 (BST)
    • Question - From my reading of this, it appears that zombies would only be able to hear the radio when they're in the same room as a powered transmitter, just like survivors. However, several people seem to believe that this skill would allow zombies to hear radio broadcasts from wherever. Which is it? --Jimbo Bob ASSU! 22:45, 2 June 2006 (BST)
      • Sorry Jimbo, but Question is not a valid vote type. Please leave questions on the author's talk page; your question was breaking the vote count. --Bob Hammero
  12. Kill Can't zombies hear the radio anyhow? Talk:Radio -- Zizanie13 22:46, 2 June 2006 (BST)
  13. Kill - Does a zombie holding a radio hear what was said? Someone look into that --Teksura 01:56, 3 June 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - My presently dead Grippy is a zed but can still hear his radio, this seems superfluous. --Major Grippy 08:22, 3 June 2006 (BST)
  15. Spam - first of all, radio waves are not going to turn zombies rotten heads into receivers! Secondly, what Grippy said! --Otware 21:49, 3 June 2006 (BST)