Talk:Council of Leaders/Election

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Official Start

Court is in session. First things first, The Councillors (UK spelling!):

  1. Benigno of the Zone Defenders 12 votes
  2. Specialist290 of the Channel Four News Team with 12 votes
  3. Zod Rhombus of the Crossman Defence Force with 12 votes
  4. Captain Leah of the Elorian Lancers with 16 votes
  5. Sexy Rexy Grossman of the Dribbling Beavers with 19 votes
  6. Masque of the Philosophe Knights with 14 votes
  7. Dikki of the Dead Dudes with 22 votes
  8. User:Johnny_Lunchpail of the USAI with 39 votes
  9. The Supreme Court of the Flat Earth Society with 12 votes

We can either have nine Councillors or five. Five would be impotent, but I believe we can make nine work. Any objections, say now! edit: I see Dikki has already added the nine of us to the official page. The meeting proceeds smoothly already!

Following this, we need to get together. I'm going to guess most have a Brainstock account- I'd personally like to take Kristi up on her generous offer of temporary forums. Yes, we'll get the "ur just RULDE by teh DEM", but we need common ground and an active forum, at least to begin with.

If there aren't any objections today, I'd like to press ahead with getting temporary forums set up on Brainstock sharpish.

Good Day! The Supreme Court 13:10, 16 September 2007 (BST)

Alright guys there's a CoL Section of the forums just post in the sign up thread and I'll get your access squared away. If there's anything else I can do let me know.--Kristi of the Dead 09:27, 17 September 2007 (BST)

Do something

If y'all don't get something done soon I'll revert the page back to a disambig for the original and new and have this page deleted. So...scram. And go. And do something. --Sonny Corleone RRF DORIS CRF pr0n 21:02, 15 September 2007 (BST)

I would like to say that even though I am not a member of this group the DEM hopes to continue working with you in Malton. I would also say that should you guys desire a place to at least get started and begin to chat about the CoL future you are more than welcome at brainstock. I would set up a section of the forums for ya and you could then discuss and plan an agenda more quickly. Then if you desire you could move on to another forum or make one yourselves if you choose. And if there's any help I can offer please let me know--Kristi of the Dead 08:59, 16 September 2007 (BST)

Exclusion

If zombies and PKers can't run for the council and are even excluded from voting, it's hardly a legitimate government for Malton. If this election goes through, I will personally dispatch every member of the Council. Besides, there's already a mayor. --Meatballking

Really, cause I coulda sworn zombies and Pkers each already have something like this where only people of their play group were allowed to decide on it's members, but I might just be completely out of my mind. Ignore everything I say, I'm obviously delusional cause I think this idea would result in more fun gameplay for both sides.--karek 16:41, 29 June 2007 (BST)
the CoL is a pro-survivor group. Zombies and PKers have long lost their humanity in order to become part of something called human civilization. Well, i can (un)live whitout that. All i need now is Barhah! --People's Commissar Hagnat [cloned] [mod] 16:54, 29 June 2007 (BST)
In the real world those that are criminals and those that are dead cannot vote. I don't see why it is so hard for us to follow that now. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 15:00, 30 June 2007 (BST)
I think what Meatballking may be getting at is that the legitimacy of this "government" will never have teeth unless a supermajority of players (many of whom are PK and zeds) consent. I see nothing like a constitutional convention where the people of Malton have consented to be "governed" in the fashion you seem to have arbitrarily laid down. That's not a democracy, a republic, or even an oligarchy or tyranny (those would imply some sort of actual power), it's just setting up a bunch of vanity titles (kinda reminds me of when the POTUS shows up at the end of Snow Crash and the real players in the novel are like "WTF?").
In the last game day according to the stats board there were 21927 active characters. Do you think either this wiki or your discussion on whatever other board's over which you've been discussing really reflects the will of those people? I'd like to see those signatories.
I'm also not really confident in your understanding of the workings of government, beyond the principles of power through elections and you seem to like to create fancy sounding titles. Look at the way you explain things. "the Councilors that act as the legislative branch. They run the city of Malton, making decisions and guarding over the citizens". Ok, in government theory, LEGISLATIVE branches do not run anything. They create the laws and authorizations which allow another branch to conduct courses of action under the authority of the government. That would be your "executive branch" or Prime Minister who 'EXECUTES' the policies of the government (which through checks and balances are actually decided through both branches). Let's also not get into the fact that in the British Parliamentary system, the Prime Minister and related ministers that make up the Cabinet/Executive come from the legislative branch/parliament, in prinicple they're delegated by the legislative body to execute its policies, whereas in a republican style government as they exist today the executive who "presides" over government operations is a separately selected branch from the legislative.
Beyond this apparent confusion over the differences between republican and parliamentary modes of governance, you ice the cake by granting the military an entirely separate branch of the government, c'mon. Show me any where in the world that actually has a military political class. You're talking maybe Iran and/or China. Along with that craziness, your claim that the "military has run out of Malton" isn't really true in terms of the way the game is played and role played. While there is a quarantine zone around the city, every day soldiers from the UK, US, NATO and the future (GDI and the Colonial Marines for example) somehow insert themselves into the city, and you presume they'd just submit to the authority of a CoL?
DEM and its allied (and sometimes competing) organizations are the closest practical thing Malton has to a government, providing service to the people. It seems your complaint that leads to the "need" for a governmet is that DEM isn't everywhere at all times, and somehow creating a government over that is going to fix things. Please. Why not take all these non-DEM affiliated people who can perform aid work in the areas out of DEM reach, have them up with DEM and spread their mission into these so-called uncharted territories. You can even call it something like Malton Frontier Infrastructure Negotiation Group, M-F'ing. If you really need some stinkin' badges, you can get them via an organization that actually provides service rather than makes a pretense of authority.--The Envoy 21:37, 30 June 2007 (BST)
One last thing, how did Somoru become Prime Minister? I don't see any electoral process or any mechanism beyond pure whim that installed him into this "position for life."--The Envoy 21:48, 30 June 2007 (BST)
I noticed your post only accentuated the shortcomings of this type of oragnization. While your points are valid if indeed this body is used as a legislative governing tool, it is most likely to have more practical uses for survivor groups. The name itself is historical and has credence, and any group made of survivor group leaders can ccordinate and communicate better than multiple broken factions. At least look at the cooperation and intel aspect of having such a resource for survivors. That is where a group of this type has the possibility to shine. Lord knows, me and Sonny have never gotten along in the past, but I see this as a good opportunity for survivor cooperation and that outweighs any history with us and/or our respective groups. --Zod Rhombus 23:27, 30 June 2007 (BST)
Well, of course it accentuated the problems with the organization as described because it was objecting with the organization as proposed, so I'm not sure what sort of point you're trying to make with that notice there. As for what you speak of, a group of survivor leaders sharing information and making good faith efforts to coordinate among themselves, I got no problem with that. But that's not what the CoL claims to be, it purports to be a government. If he described the CoL as something like the Justice League, a bunch of "super maltonions" who get together to share resources, that's one thing. The CoL as defined though claims to be a government with authority, most laughably a general who apparently has authority over all military assets in the city. That last claim there is delusionally ignorant of the role playing status of a good many military, paramilitary, and intelligence characters "on the ground" in the game. The name is historical, I grant that, but in this context its only usurping pretense from something that actually worked back in the day. It ain't that day anymore, and I for one don't subscribe to grand governmental plans not grounded in actual game reality beyond vague "whah! the system is broken and the culture ain't what it used to be, we need a unified authority" gussied up in talk of "freedom." The claims and effectiveness here are as absurd as The Malton Political Government Act. Again, if this is simply a group who gets together to coordinate, that's fine, it's the pretense of authority that a lot of the 21000 players of the past day will chafe against. Oh let me guess, everyone even those who aren't PKers or Zeds are the enemy now too. Sigh.--The Envoy 06:11, 1 July 2007 (BST)


Oh boy, looks like CoL is bringing a lot of drama upon itself again. It also seems like the past CoL's exploits are forgotten, or were never known by a lot of people around here. The thing is, CoL missed out on a lot, being inactive for over a year. During that time, the political landscape of Malton, so to speak, changed dramatically. CoL is no longer in the position of authority that it once was, it's no longer one of the major powers in Malton. People no longer remember what CoL was, just like they no longer remember a lot of history of Malton where CoL played a major role. It's going to be difficult for CoL to get back in the position it once occupied, and that's pretty much what we're seeing right here. --Daranz.t.mod janitor.W(M)^∞. 23:49, 30 June 2007 (BST)

As a former Councilor I know what has happened over the years, so the Council itself isn't behind. I am Prime Minister because it's a fancy title for an unimportant job. I set up the elections, make things look neat, etc. I help the CoL do jobs that they need only one person to do. And I can name you a government where legislative ran everything...Roman Republic and Athenian Republic. SPQR did just fine until Julius and Augustus. And zombies and pkers aren't supposed to support the government...especially since they are our enemy. As for a military class, that is only because there has to be a place for fighting and they need a General. Think of it like the US General of the Armies, a title given to ol' Black Jack Pershing and George Washington. (That is the mystical 6 star general, an insignia never truly given out but title was used). --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 01:46, 1 July 2007 (BST)

Look, while I am naturally inclined to object to governments claiming broad jurisdiction without being able to prove their authority, I'm particularly bemused by such pretension when articulated in such a swiss-cheese worded fashion as your structure is delineated. While The Malton Political Government Act is also delusionally out of touch with the game as currently played, at least they had a coherrent idea. Let's start with your defense. There was no Athenian Republic. Athens was a direct democracy. Your ignorance as to this most basic distinction between elected and participatory government alone calls your ability to politically theorize a Malton government into question. As for your gesture to the Roman Republic, there wasn't one assembly of elected individuals responsible for everything. You're talking multiple overlapping and redundant (makes for good civil war) assemblies with powers divided and shared among numerous groups, some arguably democratic, some oligarchic. Really, making gestures to sophisticated (and in one case cynical, and in the other idealistic) governments of the ancient western world as a justification for your would be powergrab is kind of funny. There's also a big difference between classical government theory and modern government theory; but whatever the case, your outline isn't really in touch with either.
I will cede that Zeds and some PKers shouldn't be part of the political equation (with the big caveat that you may just be galvanizing a violent opposition in doing so). But my larger question was this: in the past 24 hours 21,466 characters were active in the game. For simplicity sakes, let's say that population could be divided along the 57% surivor / 43% Zed breakdown of "standing active characters". How many of the 12,235 survivor characters do you really think you're going to have on board for this, to consent to be governed?
I don't care if you liken the Malton General laughably to the General of the Armies and your confusion over a hypothetical rank like the six star general, or the the Supreme Allied Commander of Europe, or even the force commander of UNAMIR (though that's probably the most apt). Your assumption that military groups, who are role playing missions for U.S., UK, NATO, Chinese, etc. interests (and let's not even get into the myriad law enforcement and intelligence agencies wandering around the Malton mess), will just start taking orders from a goverment is naively out of touch with the military situation in game.
At best, and this is what I think Zod was getting at, your CoL will effectively be a conference, like the G-8, or maybe the UN Security Council: a collection of leaders or representives of groups with arguably shared interests, though some may be occasionally at cross purposes. They will discuss policy, make some joint decision, disagree, and collective action will be decided through political wrangling rather than any sort of chartered authority. I'd say leave it at that, have your meetings, but don't expect anything more than that. Of course this begs the question whether a UN like organization for surivor groups in Malton is feasible. I'm skeptical but it's more palatable to my "realistic" sense. Of course, I also see this being about as leadership effective as Cobra Command so ... hmmm, that's not a bad idea for the game. Cobra would definitely be interested in salvaging whatever Necrotech technology they could find: an ambitious organization open to all interested in power ... stay tuned.--The Envoy 06:15, 1 July 2007 (BST)

I realized my mistake about Athens right after I posted it but didn't feel assed to fix it. And I know the Roman Republic wasn't voted in by the plebians but that is beside the point. I made an allusion to the Roman Republic to show that there was a government that had a group of people lead, as opposed to a single ruler. An oligarchy is also similar in more than one ruler but is not the same as a Republic. This is like a Democratic-Republic except once elected they do not get reelected. As for the General of the Armies, it is a real rank that was never fully created. Pershing was given the title but was never any higher than Four Star General because by the time WWII broke out they had the 4 Five Star Generals. (Omar Bradley became a Five Star General after the war). I also do not expect 1,000 people to join this. It's a game, getting all that people to support it would be like herding cats. On the Brainstock forum I have likened it to the Security Council. I reccomend checking that out. All in all your argument seems to be arguing unimportant aspects of the Council. You instead seem to be trying to have a battle of the wits and a "who reads wikipedia more" contest. I would love to have this discussion on my talk page though as very few people even know what the G8 does...nothing. ba da pish. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 06:25, 1 July 2007 (BST)

No Sonny. My objection from the onset was largely based on how the claims of your proposed "government" wouldn't function in the "reality" of the game, and is based on a poor understanding of the game's current population. One doesn't need wikipedia, just a basic newspaper level knowledge of current events to see how uninformed your gov't proposal is. You were the one who tried to defend your proposal by flailing through wikipedia's search function; and you couldn't even get that right for the most part. So, avoiding your irrevelent use of the wikipedia rabbit hole to hide the fact that your proposal is just broken, I stick to my overall claim that, like the Malton Political Government act, I find this plan just pretense. I don't think we need to move this to your personal page, this isn't about you, it's about your proposal. Unless of course you're saying this group is indeed all about your vanity.
Also, make up your mind on what the group is. If you're now likening it to the Security Council, then the whole election thing is moot. You just want a collection of "powers that be" to get together and try to coordinate. Fine, but call it that, get rid of the weakly explained gov't b.s. and then decide whether you just need to welcome permament members among the perceived power players in the game or you need some sort of electoral rigmarole.
Lastly why 9 members, then 11? If you want a Council of Leaders with actual power, isn't the test to see if the leaders of the most powerful groups in game (DEM, C4NT) will seriously participate in the org? Why not five members? Or 22? Once again, your org is poorly explained and smacks of arbitrary vanity. Groups with far less a "mission" are far more articulate in their purpose, function, and operation than your "seasoned perspective" has laid out.

You're right. It is a game. Set in a city. You proposed a "government" for the city. Plenty of people, on Brainstock, are telling you as your proposed it, it's just not going to work. Now you're likening this to an alliance, not a government. That is called backpedaling. Take some time and figure out what you can actually accomplish in the game.--The Envoy 07:07, 1 July 2007 (BST)

I do not need to defend what in game reality things it will accomplish since it is a metagaming community to help organize survivors. Tis all, the government thing is just background and flava flav. Why 9 then 11? The original council was 11. 9 is to start off easy. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 07:12, 1 July 2007 (BST)
Why not 7, or 5? And why are these people being elected if it's just a communications network (the simple term for "metagaming community to help organize survivors). Wouldn't it make more sense to invite the powerful groups of Malton to just send a delegate? Put it this way. If C4NT or DEM through some fluke or conspiracy doesn't get a seat on the Council, do you think they'd bother to participate in the network? Calling it government when it's not is not flava flav, that's just bad tasting to those who respect groups that can mix their game flavor text to the actually crunchy game work the group performs. That bad taste is called pretensiously gittish.--The Envoy 07:26, 1 July 2007 (BST)
Because when the CoL was reformed it had 7 Councilors. I thought "what is an odd number between 7 and 11? Wait...I got this...don't tell me...Blue! No...that's a color...9!" It's a game, it can't have a real government. But it can have a group that claims to be the government and acts as it. The metagaming group will work in the actual game. And I can tell you, anyone that argues about the CoL really shouldn't bother because you won't be voted in and you obviously do not like it. So I'll cut to the chase. You do not like the idea, you do not want to be a part of it. Good. GTFO or tits. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 07:42, 1 July 2007 (BST)
Someone doesn't like having his ideas critiqued. Sigh. Yes, it's a game. But nothing in the game is real. There are plenty of quasi-governmental groups in the game that actually perform organization and service functions. The language of your org seems to be trying to be the cap on to of all of them, and you've faced critique here and elsewhere questioning the viability of the endeavor. This is all part of the game too. GTFO or tits? Haha. Child, do you really think you're arguing with an actual person named The Envoy? Or maybe that The Envoy is himself a character in a game? Based on the fact that your ability to defend your idea has petered into you murmuring "it's a game, it's a game" shows you may not have the depth to appreciate that. It's ok. Others do, and we'll enjoy your government's presence "in the game." Have fun. Fo real. Or take your government ball and go home.--The Envoy 09:30, 1 July 2007 (BST)
No, it's just that I don't enjoy dealing with stupidity, even when it comes in its most intellectual form. Your questions have nothing to do with the actual group. Your comments deal more with flavor than anything else. And quite frankly, I don't give a shit. Ask me if I give a flying fuck about a government for a game? No. I don't. I don't give two shits either. But for shits and giggles my group is called a government and will act as a mini one, using its own rules. So GTFO or tits. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 14:57, 1 July 2007 (BST)
In a role playing game what you dismiss as mere flavor matters a lot and of course should be debated. Otherwise, we might just sitting around whirling random number generators. The "it's just flavor" defense just doesn't work among those who are board with mechanics at this point in UD, and have decided to make use of the game for RPing. I participate in the wiki for the most part in character. If you don't like people responding to your org in character, why effing bother with the "flavor" and just set up a board on brainstock for the heavies to negotiate.
And again, why bother with elections and what have you, if all you really need is major org heavies to volunteer or delegate someone to participate? That's constructive criticism there. If you want an efficient management of resources, producing that system through an election when what and who you need on board are readily apparent seems a waste of time.--The Envoy 21:29, 1 July 2007 (BST)
If you don't understand the point of an(the) election don't participate in the election. I'm sure others who actually aren't looking at this idea just for the sake of arguing over it(without understanding it, it seems) will take the time to look at why there is an election of leaders from a large group of group leaders and why there is more than one/two/three leader on the council.--karek 21:45, 1 July 2007 (BST)

I'm not reading the absurdly long posts you guys take to say nothing. So this may already have been addressed but seems to be an issue most everywhere this is discussed. The Government thing is obviously just flavor, get over it it means nothing. What CoL is is an organization dedicated to providing aid against zombie hordes where the zombies are, not protect "important" locations. The point is had you had forces move to any number of places during any number of the past large zombie events instead of running away and telling everyone else to run away to "safe" locations they would have been no where near as effective. I believe the purpose is to defend said locations instead of running away, sort of a take the fight to them mentality to protect and recruit the groups and areas that largely get ignored for no reason, especially considering there are quite a few places where said actions would make a large difference. Ignore the government thing, it means nothing CoL is a group made up of groups where they fight zombies where the zombie are instead of vacating suburbs to the zombies and waiting until the hordes are at their strongest to face them. Simple concept, stop making it so damn complicated.--karek 13:04, 1 July 2007 (BST)

Danke. 14:57, 1 July 2007 (BST)
Well said, Karek. My whole interest of this CoL is to talk to other leaders, so that we all can make the game better fo us and other players. I'm not really interested in a whole bunch of RolePlaying "We Lead Malton!" stuff. --Sexy Rexy Grossman 17:21, 4 July 2007 (BST)
That's only there for the wiki page, posters, and background info. Everybody needs a story or else we'd be called Group A, B, 1, 2, etc. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 02:19, 5 July 2007 (BST)

Relation to the DEM

Will the DEM act as the enforcement of this government? It seems appropriate. As far as I can tell they think of themselves as a government (I can go in depth here, but I am sure you can see some sort of truth.) regardless of what they say in the 'neutral' portion of their wiki. Would they be willing to take orders now that there is a 'valid' government? I am also going to nominate myself (there is support of course), if you have a problem with this, please discuss it on my talk page. Citizen M PK 05:00, 3 July 2007 (BST)

If Kristi accepts the nomination and is voted in then she can ask for the Councilors to vote on this. Someone brought this up before but I have not say in it. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 05:07, 3 July 2007 (BST)

Wait... Wiki News?

How is this wiki news exactly? Seriously... sounds, well, in game to me. --SgtBopTalk|Maris Viridis 07:07, 3 July 2007 (BST)

Because I said so and you will listen to every damn word I say. - Adam Sandler, The Wedding Singer. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 16:53, 3 July 2007 (BST)
Glad to see that the wiki has its share of idiots... --SgtBopTalk|Maris Viridis 20:47, 3 July 2007 (BST)
It is in-game, but it isn't through the game. How else would people hear about it? Citizen M PK 20:50, 3 July 2007 (BST)
Current events, perhaps? It re-he-heally shouldn't go in the Wiki News unless it has specifically to do with the wiki. I'm just saying, it doesn't belong here (and then the Recent Events page would have more recent events than january of this year) --SgtBopTalk|Maris Viridis 21:01, 3 July 2007 (BST)
The vote is wiki only. So this is the only place where people will get to vote. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 21:10, 3 July 2007 (BST)
Actually this would be wiki news because it effects most every survivor group in the game in at least some slight way, especially because they are all eligible for it. Same reason why another Mayoral election would be wiki news or why historical groups/events is wiki news.--karek 21:37, 3 July 2007 (BST)
Don't affect MV. Seriously, it doesn't. --SgtBopTalk|Maris Viridis 07:32, 5 July 2007 (BST)
I wouldn't really consider a pker group to be a survivor group, but it does effect you, coordination between Survivor groups causes more spotted pkers and better relaying of pk reports between them, same with the fact that it is a traveling group made up of multiple traveling and stationary groups(or at least intends to be). --karek 10:03, 5 July 2007 (BST)

Rejection

The Philosophe Knights have been rejected for a Council seat for being a pk group, or a group that condones killing other human survivors that are not already wanted pkers. As cool as you are, we cannot accept your bid. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 02:31, 5 July 2007 (BST)

I asked you to discuss the matter on my talk page. I must object to your rejection. We kill players that are specified enemies, just as bounty hunters kill players, and the DEM kill players. If you rule us out, there are many other survivor groups that must also be ruled out. I ask you to think of the matter this way: the Philosophe Knights are a faction, just as the DEM is a faction, and the Creedy Defense Force is a faction. You cannot defame the Philosophe Knights by calling us PKers just because we kill other players. The DEM kills people they don't like, the CDF does also, and we kill the CDF and DEM. You must be able to see the difference between the PK and other PKer groups that kill for the sake of killing. I will remain a nominee, because the leaders of CoL are to be those that are supported by Malton. There is no doubt that my leadership has a strong foundation among survivors. Citizen M PK 06:41, 5 July 2007 (BST)
The Philosophe Knights killed people with DORIS. I know about your group. Y'all still kill people who are not pkers. If you can prove that you do not kill regular, ordinary people who do not pk, which I know you can't. Then we'll talk. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 07:10, 5 July 2007 (BST)
Shouldn't your affiliation with DORIS make you ineligible for the position of "prime minister" or is it that you can be the only PKer on the CoL^3? --Akule School's in session. 16:09, 14 July 2007 (BST)
I'm not going to be voting, running for Councilor, or making any decisions for in game policies. I'm going to be the one running the wiki, forum threads, propaganda, and elections. That's all. I have no influence over anything. And my main is Sonny who is in the RRF so I'd be disqualified from voting and running anyway. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF 16:27, 14 July 2007 (BST)
Then why the title? Upon reading the page it sounds far more like you are in charge of the council of leaders than merely a officiator. Perhaps a clarification on the CoL^3's site would be in order. As it stands right now, it says that you are the leader, and in that position for life. Shouldn't the Mayor_of_Malton be the Prime Minister of the CoL^3? --Akule School's in session. 17:04, 14 July 2007 (BST)
The Mayor of Malton is a zombie... So that's a no. And I haven't found a title for myself except Prime Minister. So you come up with one that is still used in today's world I'll accept it. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF 17:14, 14 July 2007 (BST)
Executive secretary. It states that you have a position in the cabinet, but is separate from power. Your roles are different than the council's roles. A prime minister is usually a role reserved for the head of of government. --Akule School's in session. 17:31, 14 July 2007 (BST)
I'll think about it. I don't like the term secretary though. But so far that is the best someone gave me. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF 20:12, 14 July 2007 (BST)
That'd be technically what you are. It's not an emasculating title. In the American government, there is the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Education, Secretary of Energy, etc. Typically, in student government, it's the secretary that records the minutes, sends out the mailings, keeps up the webpage, etc. Doesn't that sound like the position you described? --Akule School's in session. 20:50, 14 July 2007 (BST)

What defines a PKer group?

What do you consider a PKer group? A group that employs PKing to further it's goals, or a group who'se goal is to PK? There is quite a difference between the two. -Certified=Insane☭Québécois 03:40, 5 July 2007 (BST)

Both. And the fact that they have "Category: PKer Group" at the bottom of their page... --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 03:46, 5 July 2007 (BST)
I wasn't reffering to Philosophe Knights. So this would mean that bounty hunters are also disqualified? -Certified=Insane☭Québécois 03:58, 5 July 2007 (BST)
He covers that in the above Rejection section, killing players who are not already wanted pkers Which would mean/strongly imply that bounty hunting is fine. Although I'm sure no one would vote a group based solely off bounty hunting to a position because they really wouldn't help CoL unless they are changing their groups focus.--karek 04:05, 5 July 2007 (BST)
Bounty Hunters kill pkers. There is a difference from killing those that pk and those that don't. Since killing those that kill survivors you are helping survivors. PKers do the same thing zombies do, make survivors become zombies. Bounty Hunters stop PKers from doing this and thus qualify as a survivor, who's job is to stop survivors from becoming zombies. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 04:17, 5 July 2007 (BST)
Who decides if someone is wanted or not? The DEM? Surely they aren't a governing body. (The Philosophe Knights actually promote life by educating those who are ignorant. The Philosophe Knights have tried a few times to be listed as a survivor group, but people always change it.) Citizen M PK 06:46, 5 July 2007 (BST)
The DEM? From what I gather at their forum they don't even know who's on their own side. If it weren't for a few smart leaders, the group would implode from stupidity. The general opinion of a group but the survivor community decides. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS Hunt! 07:13, 5 July 2007 (BST)
For the record I am fairly well in the know regarding who's on our side and who isn't. Heck if ya wanna be honest about it the DEM considers any pro survivor group its friend. But aside from that YES THE DEM WILL DECIDE WHO IS A PKER AND WHO ISN'T WA HA HA HA HA. AH THE POWAH IS ALL MINE!!!! Or not you be the judge.--Kristi of the Dead 03:47, 20 July 2007 (BST)
For the record, I posted an idea to bring a survivor organization to Malton. Most members couldn't get past "OMGZ SONY IS TEH ZOBMIE!11!!one!!1exclamationpoint!1" --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 03:20, 21 July 2007 (BST)
My brand of "diplomacy" usually makes the situation worse, so I won't reply to your comment about the DEM, M...
Ah, what the heck... Have we not said enough times that the RG is not affiliated with the DEM? Well, THE RG IS NOT AFFILIATED WITH THE DEM! DEM members have been kicked out for killing survivors without a bounty, does that say nothing? Back to PK, if members of a group kill level 1-4 members who just joined our group, are they on our side? No, probably not. Moreover, they are killing them during that crucial time when we are trying to teach them how to be productive members of the game- Hypocritical, no?--Labine50 MHG|MEMS 09:20, 21 July 2007 (BST)

No Confidence Votes

I motion for a vote of no confidence in the prime minister. ;) --Sexy Rexy Grossman 03:10, 25 July 2007 (BST)
I motion to empower voters with the option to vote for N/A; and if a majority of the voting pool does so, the legitimacy of the COL is invalidated. There's a lot of "talk" about democracy here, but so far we've just had a system imposed on us by a self-appointed PM, and people he's roped into proclaiming. No one even died to make this guy Castro. Challenge this cigar sucker's would be regime! I mean, he can't even read a calendar right.--The Envoy 17:10, 25 July 2007 (BST)
What's crawled up your ass? Seriously, you don't want to be in the CoL then get over it and move on with your life, stop bitching about flavor.--Karekmaps?! 22:34, 25 July 2007 (BST)
Sigh, it's a game. A, wait for it, ROLE PLAYING game. "Seriously?", lol. My role, and many other players' roles, would find the CoL very troublesome. If you can't handle role-playing, don't even bother with flavor, sugar. On the other hand an election is a meta-game mechanic, and mechanics can be bitched about, just like flavor. If you want things to run smoothly with everyone just uncritically taking ideas in lockstep, you don't want to play with other players, so go back to playing with your dolls. I don't think you put away your toy box so you could play with the big boys too long ago, maybe a week?--The Envoy 05:56, 26 July 2007 (BST)
You're a sigh, wait for it, asshat. My role is telling you you're being an asshat. You've been bitching about this since it started, at least then you kept it on the talk page where it belongs.--Karekmaps?! 06:34, 26 July 2007 (BST)
Cute rhetorical mirroring. I'm flattered and dissappointed. Sorry I posted out of place, but it looked to me that the "voting section" had become a voting discussion without my initiative. I think that had something to do with Sonny not being able to see the difference between 7 and 14 on a calendar, but that's just a theory. I also assumed in theory a PM would be able to do basic math, but maybe I'm wrong.--The Envoy 06:49, 26 July 2007 (BST)
You're a dumbass. No rhetoric. No smartass remarks. You're just a dumbass. Die in a fire. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 15:17, 26 July 2007 (BST)
Maybe I'm a dumbass; but at least my sense of the space time continuum can accurately pinpoint when the 31st is. Did you have a stroke or something between your days as an august leader of the largest survivor blah blah blaah two years ago when the game was in its infancy and this current effort have a "great impact" on the game. Tootles, --The Envoy 16:23, 26 July 2007 (BST)
Yeah...I got this job and real life responsibilities that kind of made it hard for me to do all this shit. So I asked someone "When's the 31st?" He said "2 weeks from now on Tuesday." So I counted 2 Tuesdays and it put me at the 24th. Except I didn't bother checking a calander to make sure it was the right day. My mistake. You're still a dumbass. And you need to die in a fire. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 16:28, 26 July 2007 (BST)
Now you're just being silly. You could have just said, "voting will be on July 31st" and not embarass yourself. I'd pray for those things under your responsibility, but your performance here and on Brainstock tell me you're purview is likely jr. grade or not much more involved that a paper route ... I mean those of us with real "real life" responsibilities generally don't develop Napoleon complexes in their online RPG "leadership" roles.--The Envoy 16:41, 26 July 2007 (BST)
To quote a dumbass I know "Sigh, it's a game. A, wait for it, ROLE PLAYING game. "Seriously?", lol." --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 21:20, 26 July 2007 (BST)
Exactly.--The Envoy 05:05, 27 July 2007 (BST)
Exactly what? You're a dumbass? I'm an asshole. I never denied it once. I got an ego. So did Mickey Mantle, General Patton, and Chuck Norris. Know why they got away with it? Because everything they thought about themselves was true. They kicked ass. Everything I say about myself is true. I kick ass. You're a dumbass. I'm an asshole. Exactly. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 05:09, 27 July 2007 (BST)
Sigh. 1.) Mickey Mantle, General Patton, and Chuck Norris wouldn't get the date wrong for their own game day, invasion, Walker shoot. 2.) For Mantle, Patton, and Norris, it was never a, wait for it, game, a ROLE PLAYING GAME. Given that, all things considered, you kick about as much ass as that guy Dennis Quaid played in Tron, and really, like you, he took a lot more than he dished out. Do you negotiate your real life responsibilities by likening yourself to Patton, Mantle, and Norris btw? Must be one hell of a paper route.--The Envoy 13:14, 27 July 2007 (BST)
I work in a small drug store that also does retail. And I got the date wrong because...wait for it...I was told 2 weeks instead of...wait for it...3. So I waited one week and said that it would begin the next week. But when...wait for it...that week came I realized it wasn't the 31st because...wait for it...I wasn't looking at that page constantly, especially not my post. Instead I...wait for it...had it on my watchlist and only checked the differences from the last time I viewed it. I realized the vote wasn't being held on the 31st when I saw...wait for it...a vote. I thought for a second "Huh...that guy must not know what day it is." I then checked my post, saw my mistake, erased everything and apologized. Then I was assaulted by projectile diarrhea in the form of your posts. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 16:19, 27 July 2007 (BST)
Yeah ... you kick ass. You don't work for a major chain do you? I mean, pharmaceuticals can be dangerous if someone doesn't have a good handle on expiration dates. Maybe they just leave you with the batteries. While you clean yourself off from my dumping on you, you can wipe yourself with one of my campaign fliers. That's right. I'm throwing my hat into this race. The CoL needs people who can offer proper oversight of its PM. In fact, one may say it's the CoL's prime directive if elected. Campaign announcement forthcoming.--The Envoy 16:35, 27 July 2007 (BST)
You guys realize that I was just teasing Saromu about that, right? Right now I wish I had my Internet is Serious Business™ image macro. --Sexy Rexy Grossman 23:32, 31 July 2007 (BST)


I actually work stock and floor. Pharmacy is ran by a seperate company. And I like your nomination bid. No sarcasm or anything. It is good. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 18:08, 27 July 2007 (BST)

Thanks, I hope you realize the "zeal" on this end is actually good natured "ball busting". If you couldn't take the piss, or had RL pissed me off, I wouldn't be sparring around with you. That said, I should probably stop monopolizing your discussion space, and return IC to my dark horse candidacy.--The Envoy 19:18, 27 July 2007 (BST)
No, no. It's all good. I knew from the start that your writing style shows that you have some degree of intelligence, just that you don't like me for reasons unknown to me. And thus I am defensive and must brutally attack you with insults. It's just the way things go. Much better argument here than I usually get. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 19:25, 27 July 2007 (BST)

SONY IS TEH ZOMBIE SPAI

ITT we talk about how Sonny is a zombie and how he was never leader of The Stanbury Renegades, PA Rebel Alliance, and the Alliance of Giddings, which was the largest survivor organization evar. lolz. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 15:33, 26 July 2007 (BST)

Vote Window?

Has the length of the voting period been established? Is it just on the 31st, or will there be a week or so long window? Late to the game campaigners want to know.--The Envoy 17:19, 28 July 2007 (BST)

None has been made yet. I suspect a 2 week long window would be fine. I'm trying to stretch it as long as possible since even right now people are just finding out about it and nominating themselves. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 17:21, 28 July 2007 (BST)


The Flat Earth Society

3 people are running on their ticket, how does that work considering each is saying they run the show.--Karekmaps?! 21:15, 28 July 2007 (BST)

Presuming the Flat Earthers aren't just ballot spamming, some groups don't have a "leader" per se, but strong voices among a collective. Of course, a descriminating voter may look at those candidates and not vote for them. Maybe they think having three leaders on the council would somehow make them a dictatorial power block, but more likely the three candidacies will ruin the Flat Earth society as a voting block, since they'll likely split their vote among their "leaders" (a more prudent election fixer would've just run two leaders). May fave: look at the CIA guy, who doesn't even have a link to the CIA group page.... I think Sonny may be taking a "California Primary" approach to the ballot, in hopes that Gary Coleman and porn stars may sign up. It'll make the election interesting to say the least, and if things are too close or too indecisive, I'm sure Sonny could have some sort of run off.
Eh, don't worry about the rest of 'em, always trying to muscle their way in. I'm the true leader of the Flat Earth Society, no matter what any dissenters say. Especially that Morrish Building, always had such a big head after those renovations... --Daggoo 22:49, 28 July 2007 (BST)
According to the wiki there is no group leader.--Karekmaps?! 23:51, 28 July 2007 (BST)
I say, that is not true in the slightest! According to the wiki, every member of the Flat Earth Society claims to be the leader. Of course, the other members are wrong. I am the true leader of the Flat Earth Society. --Bartemius 00:21, 29 July 2007 (BST)
How could you Bartemius, after all I've done for you! Have you forgotten all those intimate conversations and revelations brought upon our rational discourse? Much shame upon you good sir, much shame indeed. --Daggoo 00:28, 29 July 2007 (BST)
Oh for the love of Pluto... --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 01:56, 29 July 2007 (BST)

Voting Question

I play a survivor alt, but my wiki name is that of my Death Cultist. Quite a few people in the RRF play survivor alts, in fact. Do our votes count? --Goolina Gore Corps 10:34, 31 July 2007 (BST)

I like to look at it like this. If you had to choose one character to keep and the rest must be discarded, who would you keep? Survivor, PKer, or Zombie? If you answer with any of the last two, GTFO. If you answer with Survivor, be my guest. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 17:36, 31 July 2007 (BST)
Bullshit. If this isn't something that the entire UD community can be involved in, then it needs to be pulled from the wiki and hosted somewhere else. Play your little fucking games if you want, but don't try to imply that they're in any way "official" while denying over half the player base the ability to contribute. Further: you're one to talk, Sonny, being a former leader of the RRF and still retaining all your access to the RRF war council forums.--Jorm 19:49, 31 July 2007 (BST)
I'm not voting am I? I'm doing this to avoid drama. If the Council fails I can safely say "Wasn't me. I did not lead, I did not allow pkers or zombies." Want to make one for the zombies? Ministry of the Dead. Go for it. That needs to be revived right away. Players with survivors as their main can vote. Those with zombies or pkers are their main will have their vote struck. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 20:55, 31 July 2007 (BST)
How do you know Gore Girl isn't my main, and Goolina isn't my alt? --Goolina Gore Corps 23:45, 31 July 2007 (BST)
Meh, makes sense to me, conflict of interests and all. Removed my vote.--Karekmaps?! 23:58, 31 July 2007 (BST)

Dead Souls Voting

Just noticed few users for whoom the voting is the first action on wiki. FYI --~~~~T` ` 22:59, 31 July 2007 (BST)

Wiki-phobic members of some group that uses a board for most communication?--Labine50 MHG|MEMS 02:59, 1 August 2007 (BST)
I smell a conspiracy theory...-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 03:02, 1 August 2007 (BST)
There's a black hawk down on the grassy knoll? Where!?--Karekmaps?! 10:41, 1 August 2007 (BST)

Voting Details

Can I get a ruling on the following: Can I vote for up to two other candidates, so long as I'm not voting for myself? --Sexy Rexy Grossman 23:04, 31 July 2007 (BST)

You can vote for two different people. That means two different people that are not you. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 00:07, 1 August 2007 (BST)
The ruling of Corleone in Grossman v. Ministers 2007 SHOEBOX has been duly noted and processed. We would refer you here for our fees. --The Supreme Court

Hang on, so candidates CAN vote, just not self-vote? The election rules clearly say something different (albeit the rule is a bit weird). It's obvious unless people in my neighborhood take the election seriously, I'm not getting on the council, but if I can have a voice as an elector, I'd like to have it.--The Envoy 05:44, 5 August 2007 (BST)

meh, that's a rule I forgot to change once I figured out a way to allow the candidates vote. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 05:51, 5 August 2007 (BST)

Before You Vote

Just thought I'd point out that the top 9 people get in, don't vote for the people with the most votes, popularity means nothing and you just detract from the whole process. Help out people with lower votes if you want them on the council, especially if you want them on it more than other players of questionable intent and reputation. That means stop voting for Lachryma and Rexy, they've prety much already made it in, instead actually determine who else is going to be on the council.--Karekmaps?! 22:11, 4 August 2007 (BST)

Is Lachryma really leaving, or is s/he just disbanding Ghetto Cow?--The Envoy 03:59, 9 August 2007 (BST)
Either way would make her votes void. --Sonny Corleone RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n 19:04, 9 August 2007 (BST)
Man, the post-election battling is going to need a new page. Not for nothing, I'd say she if she stays in game, her "cult of personality" should maintain her candidacy.--The Envoy 20:52, 9 August 2007 (BST)
Two questions. 1) When will voting be over? Tomorrow? Two weeks from now? and 2) I see in the voting protocols box that one can also vote AGAINST candidates. Is that actually an option, or is it another uncorrected rule inaccuracy? -- Marion 20:50, 13 August 2007 (BST)

Group dead?

It appears after over a month of voting, nothing is happening. Is this group dead or is there a timeframe for the next step? --Zod Rhombus 00:19, 2 September 2007 (BST)


yeah has voting finished is the council ready is there a forum just for council members.--Dikki 12:17, 2 September 2007 (BST)

That's up to the council members, I'm fairly certain Sonny is done holding everyone's hands.--Karekmaps?! 13:17, 2 September 2007 (BST)


You guys know how to count. Top 9 are the Councilors. Do what you will. You've been given an organization to help save survivors. If you can't figure out what to do from here then you're doomed. --Sonny Corleone RRF DORIS CRF pr0n 16:22, 2 September 2007 (BST)

Ok ill get on it straight away --Dikki 23:16, 2 September 2007 (BST)

Straw Man

I'm afraid Sonny is just using this to bash survivor players- it was always set up to fail. Having said that, the Flat Earth Society will gladly take its place in the leadership! --Karloth Vois RR 16:26, 2 September 2007 (BST)

Right... Yes, it was created to show that no matter what survivors will not work together, as seen by the DEM pulling out and most survivor groups not trusting the organization. No one is to blame but the survivors for not even trying. DEM pulled out because they stick to their own kind. Groups like the DRRP fought to destroy it because the idea was put forth by a zombie player. In other words, survivors are to blaim for all their failures. "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink." --Sonny Corleone RRF DORIS CRF pr0n 23:18, 2 September 2007 (BST)
Come on, man. The DRRP didn't fight to destroy anything. I simply offered an alternative to the CoL based on some ideas R33F had been talking about for awhile. Are you saying that because you don't like the outcome of the elections (democracy's a bitch!) you intended the CoL to fail from the start? The whole thing was just a big practical joke meant to teach us poor dumb survivors a lesson? --Paddy Dignam 17:24, 3 September 2007 (BST)
Not a practical joke. A way to show survivors "Hey, it isn't the game's fault you guys die so much. It's because you refuse to organize." So I gave you guys an organization, telling you how to succeed. It fell on deaf ears. Right away people fought against it. Why? Why would people fight against something made to help them? So that's why the CoL was brought back. Just to show that survivors cannot and will not organize. Now you guys still have a chance at proving me wrong. You have your 9 Councilors. Do something. Quickly though because Malton is falling apart. --Sonny Corleone RRF DORIS CRF pr0n 00:26, 4 September 2007 (BST)

COL

to all councillors i along with a few COL members are setting up forum and then we can get things started please contact me.in the council fails its fails as long as we give it a go--Dikki 18:23, 5 September 2007 (BST)

................................

I would like to point out this entire thing is a zombie plan to lure out the largest groups of survivors to one location, then subsequently ambush them, and then kill them. That is all.

ZOMG! ZMOB!E CONSPIRACY!!!11!!3.14!!!!

And if you don't get it, I'm joking.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 17:02, 16 September 2007 (BST)
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