User talk:Rosslessness/Persons Of Note

General Messages

this place for ross to give warnings and stuff

Update

There will be no actual definitive number for this, and also I'll try to update one character a day. --Ross^lessness 18:56, 12 July 2012 (BST)

A CLARIFICATION

This list is more about ingame characters, than wiki mastering superfools. --Ross^WHO????ness 08:09, 14 July 2012 (BST)

When I log in once every two years, people are all like: "AMAZING? IT'S A PARTY!" -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 18:01, 14 July 2012 (BST)

yeah you have an ousting like grim and its like that. Probs best to get used to it. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 13:05, 15 July 2012 (BST)

Immediate Stuff on Persons of Note

Greetings dear wiki friend. Simply put this is my attempt at creating a who's who of Urban Dead, and as such I'm looking for 20 or 30 characters who have had a lasting impact on UD.

The page itself is protected, but feel free to add nominations below.

Other than that, I'll add stuff as people convince me. Userspace and all that.

Cheers --Ross^lessness 18:41, 11 July 2012 (BST)

Suggested format for Entries

==Ron Burgundy== [[File:RonDrag.jpg|right|thumb|Ron Burgundy ]] Ron Burgundy ([http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=26370 profile link]) was the leader of the [[Channel 4 News Team]]. He helped lead them into glorious battle on numerous occasions, including the infamous [[Battle of the Bear Pit]] and [[Battle of Blackmore]]. Ron participated in the [[First Siege of Caiger Mall]], and indeed almost every historical event prior to his retirement in 2008. His love of [[Suggestion:20071110_Pac_Man_in_Malton!|PacMan]] is well recorded, as well as scotch. Legend suggests his final resting place is somewhere in [[Ackland Mall]] [[User:Ron Burgundy|This link]] should tell you more about Ron.

Bump

There's talk happening over at Category talk:Historical Groups#TX. See list there for ideas. Or, ya know just continue discussing it here. ~ _{18:26, 8 July 2012 (UTC)}

Qualifications?

Just wondering what would qualify a person to be noted here? :) -- Johnny Twotoes 22:37, 10 July 2012 (BST)

suggestions, really. Its not a hard and fast list. --Ross^lessness 22:48, 10 July 2012 (BST)

I nominate Johnny Twotoes! Dude's been playing for over a week now. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 23:28, 10 July 2012 (BST)

PKers / Bounty Hunters

Any thoughts on entries for that?
As a general thing, game mechanics make it so that only survivors and zombies really have an impact on a suburb, while the contributions of PKers and BHers are small and short-lived (cheap revives, no AP draining by meatshielding/ruining etc.) Still, "the third side" is a popular and distinctive feature of UD, so it should have at least a couple of token entries. Sirens could be a good pick (founder of Red Rum, the biggest and most important PKer group of long term), as could be one of the founders of the Philosophe Knights (who have definitively put their very own spin on the whole PKing business, and have been doing that for a long time now). As for BHers, no real idea for singling anyone out. -- Spiderzed█ 19:05, 11 July 2012 (BST)

Its a fair cop, and as someone who doesnt involve this facet of the game, one I'll need most help on. --Ross^lessness 19:10, 11 July 2012 (BST)

Sirens and Karloth would be good examples of noteworthy pkers. Particularly that are known around the rest of the game. Sirens is less notable for a number of reasons related to meta-drama and relative quietness for years. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 21:15, 11 July 2012 (BST)

Thanks. Only thing left after that to look at is the big fish in the small ponds. --Ross^lessness 21:43, 11 July 2012 (BST)

Murbulskond. 01:36, 12 July 2012 (BST)

Bob Hammero, Jimbo Bob, Anton Howard...Hail ASS! :D --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:41, 12 July 2012 (BST)

Canderous Ordo (for causing DORIS to transform from a random collection of people with Resenz Forum sigs into the PKer equivalent of the Freemasons, and using this as the basis for some massive PKer events/wars.)

And now the names of all the Philosophe Knights who've had an effect on this game:

...

There are a tiny, tiny handful of people who've played this game with enough effort, outreach, time, and sheer dumb luck to have an actual lasting effect on more than 10 people at a time. The Founders of the PK? You can't even put a name to any of them without research. Seriously, folks. You guys are scraping the bottom of the barrel with a lot of these 'notable' people. --DT^PK 05:40, 13 July 2012 (BST)

Yeah, pretty much that. Though I'm not sure Canderous would make my list, DORIS as a group, sure. Canderous individually maybe not. If I had to list any Sonny identity it would be either Sonny Corleone or his pre-RRF survivor(this one is the more likely of the two). --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 06:11, 13 July 2012 (BST)

Oh, can I nominate myself? I revitalized the Malton Manhunt with my own strings of events that bought the community together for a glorious fun time of killing each other for sport. It was my events that bought the Manhunt era into it's golden age, after all. :P --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 04:20, 12 July 2012 (BST)

I would imagine

...if you are doing just 30 you will need to be conservative but I would think that Jensonson and Bullgod should make the cut. On the more debatable side, I might suggest Josh Clark and Leon Silverblood. Josh's merits were discussed by many in the recent group vote. Leon would be more controversial. He has a lot of detractors, but like him or not, he has been around for a long time and had his fingers in a lot of pies. He is a case of someone who is more known in game than on the wiki I think. DJ talent might also fit for notoriety in his field as would Hibernaculum. -- Albert Schwan  _{Thursday, 12 July 2012}

Josh Clark and Bullgod, yes. Jensonson, maybe. The others, nope. Is there something you can point me to that would explain their inclusion? -- _{Org XIII} ^Alts 04:11, 12 July 2012 (BST)

Never heard of any of them other than Bullgod, who certainly deserves a place. --WanYao 09:24, 12 July 2012 (BST)

Rationale for these is similar to that provided for Duke D'oeuvre below. If they are persons of note, I would think it would be more useful if they were still active. Otherwise they are points of historical reference rather than a who's who of who you might meet. Historic accounts like Josh or Bullgod are only relevant for their legacy. Still relevant but I would say less so than those like bub who still crop up from time to time or those like Leon who have remained constantly active. As below, if this is not what this list is trying to do, let me know and I will stop. I would prefer for that to come from Ross though as it is his list.-- Albert Schwan  _{Saturday, 14 July 2012}

leon are you fucking kidding me?--User:Sexualharrison22:31, 12 July 2012

Harrison, are you a real person or a bot that randomly generates irrelevant statements and outrage? I wonder sometimes. -- Albert Schwan  _{Saturday, 14 July 2012}

Only Bullgod on that list is even worth considering in the slightest. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 06:02, 13 July 2012 (BST)

bullgod, my rambunctious neighbor, how I adore thee. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 06:52, 13 July 2012 (BST)

Harrison is a real bot, not sure how you count that. As for Leon, your reasoning is he has basically been mediocre but he's done it for a long time? This is going to be a long list with lots of unimportant players if constantly active is good enough. -- _{Org XIII} ^Alts 21:07, 15 July 2012 (BST)

There was a second half to my statement having to do with pies. Sweet, delicious, post apocalyptic pies in which his finger was often in a leadership position. If that convoluted and slightly disturbing metaphor does not convince at least one person, then I retract the nomination as I am tired of defending it on my own. I am glad someone spoke up for Rev's alt though. I had some idea of some of those points but did not have the details so I figured I would leave them to the more qualified to mention. Perhaps similar will happen with Leon. -- Albert Schwan  _{Wednesday, 18 July 2012}

fat chance. he is a moron and probably one of the main reasons I gravitated away from the NMC. --User:Sexualharrison19:13, 18 July 2012

Katthew

I nominate Katthew. Nobody can really deny how ingrained in UD that SA has been. From The Many to DARIS, UTF, New CoL, The Dead, The Malton Globetrotters and The Dead 2.0, Katthew was there. Katthew was all up in Desenz and maintaind the PK list for a long while. I beleive she even helped ressurect the board after it went down and eventually moved to Resenz. I keep expecting her to spring out of the dark shadows one day to make us all her bitch. Katthew is definitely a person of note. ~ _{03:19, 12 July 2012 (UTC)}

Yes. 18:52, 12 July 2012 (BST)

Seconded, pretty much. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 06:03, 13 July 2012 (BST)

I've read enough on this wiki to come about her name more than enough :) YES -- Johnny Twotoes 17:37, 14 July 2012 (BST)

Duke D'oeuvre

Missed him on my last post -- Albert Schwan  _{Thursday, 12 July 2012}

Much as I love this man, how does he fit on this list? --DT^PK 05:42, 13 July 2012 (BST)

He never left. And no.--Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 06:08, 13 July 2012 (BST)

I offered him here because Ross is putting together a list of persons of note. The "did he change the game" dynamic seems to be a holdover from the discussion on historical status. Duke D'oeuvre has been around, racked up a respectable kill total, been associated with most of the more notable PKer groups(including the PK and Redrum), but most importantly, his notoriety comes from his consistent personality and character design. Also, he is still active which makes it more worth while to current players to include him on a list like this. If UD is treated as an RPG rather than a strategy game, Duke D'oeuvre is one of the interesting characters who seem to be an active, notably unique, and semi-permanent feature of it's landscape. Were I a new player, I would want to know if I was standing in a room with him. If that is not the type of candidates this list is seeking to recognize, if it intends to utilize in whole or part the mired qualifications of historic status, or if it intends to focus on strategy rather than role-playing, then merely inform me now and save yourself many similarly arrived at suggestions in days to come. -- Albert Schwan  _{Saturday, 14 July 2012}

That's it? I somehow doubt that this measures up to Jorm, Bullgod, and Burgundy in terms of 'notable'. --DT^PK 01:27, 14 July 2012 (BST) EDIT: Much less the 'Lasting Impact on the Game' that Rosslessness is looking for. --DT^PK 01:34, 14 July 2012 (BST)

Does every entry need to? Also, in some ways, personalities like this are more notable in that they are still around to notice. A who's who is just another history book if all the entries correspond to people who are already dead. It certainly does not let you know who to look out for for one reason or another.-- Albert Schwan  _{Saturday, 14 July 2012}

Nope --WanYao 01:45, 14 July 2012 (BST)

I might be wrong, but Rev in general seems to have made a decent meta-game impact, but I'm not sure that could be tied to a single alt. Meta-celebrity, yup. But not what this list is...I think.-- _{Org XIII} ^Alts 21:09, 15 July 2012 (BST)

Duke is his PKing alt. He led Red Rum with it, has led one of the most exclusive PKing groups (LCGHC) with it, I believe led the PKA with it, and has been a Philosophe Knight with it (at a leadership rank, no less), all at the same time. To say the least, most of the things he's famous for are directly tied to that alt. His other alts are admittedly well-known in their own circles (he leads a MOB strike team, led a mass combat revive with an often-quoted catchphrase at Blackmore 4(04), and gets around in BHer circles quite a bit), but this one is easily responsible for the vast majority of his notoriety since it's been the channel through which most of the big things he's done have occurred. The majority of the big PKing happenings in recent years can be tied directly to this character in one way or another. —Aichon— 22:00, 15 July 2012 (BST)

"The majority of the big PKing happenings in recent years can be tied directly to this character in one way or another." They can? I seem to recall him forgetting to invite Red Rum to many, and being all...well...loveably Revenant about others. By which I mean, too lazy/forgetful/inactive to show up. Duke is definitely in more groups than ought to be possible, and has more leadership positions than I knew was possible for one man to hold - including being the former Vice Mayor of Malton - but like a lot of people in recent years, he has yet to make a more permanent mark on Malton. --DT^PK 04:40, 18 July 2012 (BST)

Again though, if indelibility is your sole criteria be prepared to have the list consist of bub, Someone named Holly of whom I have never heard but who holds acct #13, one of the first people to organize zombies, one of the first people to organize survivors, one of the first people to PK, the first bounty hunter, the person who figured out how to make a pinata (always wondered who this was by the way), and no one else. Unless this is the list you want, you must consider more than changing the way the game is played. You must look at notability as leaving a lasting mark on those around you. Memorability is possibly the strongest and possibly the only criteria by which to judge this. I ask myself, "which names do I associate with UD". By this criteria, all of the people I mentioned hold at least enough sway to be considered in that WanYao seems to be one of only a very few people who have not heard of them. Under those same criteria though, Amazing may not have a strong case for his admission because he cited mostly wiki events but Aichon made a decent enough case on his behalf to not reject him out of hand. I ask again, what exactly do you want this list to do? Until we come to a common consensus on this, we are doomed to the same circular masturbatory practices that have made so many so unhappy with the way historical group voting is done. "had a lasting impact on UD" was never going to cut it and this is the logical result.-- Albert Schwan  _{Wednesday, 18 July 2012}

Cease bringing logic into this at once! :P —Aichon— 07:09, 18 July 2012 (BST)

First: I'll thank you to stop trying to put words in my mouth, especially with such bizarre bullshit. Second: Common Consensus? This list is on Rosslessness' page. His rules. He says "Lasting Effect", so that's what goes on this list. I don't see the lasting effect that the Duke has had on this game yet. Give it a year of two, maybe. Personally, I think Revenant's zombie alt has had more of a lasting effect than his PKer. Reputation and metagame achievement does not 'notable' make. Swiers' work, which started all the various 'Witnesses' that are commonly used instead screenshots, makes him notable in the metagame, but not terribly important ingame. I've had enough of an effect on the PKA that I won a 'Services to the Industry' award by a landslide in the 2009 MMA's, but Ingame I'm just some no-name Scout for a PK group. This list is for people who, should you meet them ingame, have an effect on the players and environment around them because of how they've used their AP and influence.

You want a list that has a different Criteria so you can stuff more people in? Make it on your own page. It is that simple.--DT^PK 15:49, 18 July 2012 (BST)

I will offer one final stab at this before bowing out of this discussion entirely, which I am sure will come as a great relief for many. DTs most recent post has shown me that this conversation is going nowhere. When someone generally renowned for his analytical, level-headed demeanor becomes defensive and uses the term "Bizarre bullshit" we are clearly losing ground. My objection was not designed to put words in anyone's mouth but to sum up what I saw to be the crux of the disagreement working itself out on this page. My objection is not centered around wanting a different set of criteria; it is centered around wanting criteria in the first place. "had a lasting impact on UD" is not a criteria: or if it is, it is woefully inadequate to base a list around. Each of us is filling in the definition with our own assumptions. For me, fame and notoriety are a big part of how one is remembered and therefore leaves a mark, for others it is the lasting strategic impact on how the game is played, still for others it is inseparable from the meta-game. After DT abandoned the "changing the game" principle in the most recent post, I am not sure what criteria he is using. My point is that it is different from mine and that used by others. By my criteria, our esteemed vice mayor is worthy of this list, by DT's he is not. Since Ross had not defined his terms, I can only assume that he is still considering criteria of his own. Accordingly, my concept of what makes one notable has no more or less claim to truth than that held by anyone else. Failure to recognize this is behind this mess: a mess that could be lessened with a useful and agreed upon rubric. True, this is Ross's page but through use of such ill-defined terms, he has merely invited the same argument to his page that existed elsewhere. I was attempting to point this out. Does he have to fix it? No, of course not. If he does not, he is doomed to this bickering. Having said that, I refer you once more to my nominations and leave this list to its fate. May it eventually sort itself out and fare well.-- Albert Schwan  _{Wednesday, 18 July 2012}

Schwan's got a point. Either the criteria stays the same, in which case it's open to interpretation, or it gets narrowed down a bit. Ross can't do it all. There's certainly nothing crazy about nominating Duke. Hell, even Dave Grohl makes some sense. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 00:54, 19 July 2012 (BST)

I love it when people make specious arguments and then book it before they are called to defend their words. But the knowledge that I wont be receiving a response has never stopped me from typing before, and I shan't begin now.

First, the "Bizzare Bullshit": In response to me asking Aichon a question, you represented (and continue to represent) my arguments as "Notable = First Person to Do Something". You've tried telling me that by my standards Bub and Survivor #1 would be the only people on the list. Which is strange considering that every time I compared the Duke to anyone else, it was to Jorm, Burgundy, and Bullgod - not First in anything. Many hordes existed before Bullgod and Jorm, and many survivor groups existed before Burgundy. What makes these three people stand out is the massive impact they had and continue to have on the game. Once again, Rosslessness' "Lasting Effect". Not first guy to stick a needle into a Hostile zombie. Not Urban Dead Celebrity. Not someone who burnt himself out leading a bunch of different groups to various levels of success.

My standards require this: A Lasting Impact on the Game. I have never wavered from this argument, despite your apparent belief that I'm abandoning my arguments left and right.

To be honest, I'm fairly sure you're just getting bitter that someone disagrees with you and have decided to troll me with straw man arguments, but I'll be damned if that stops me from responding. Secondly, as to your whole "Let's change the page's thrice-stated criteria" thing. Why? Because your nominees don't actually fit the page? I said, waaaay up, under the heading PKers/Bounty Hunters that there are a tiny number of people who fit the Notable criteria simply because not many people have changed the game. I know this disqualifies a lot of people you look up to as venerable Veterans of UD, but quite honestly, it's probably for the better. They may have changed your game, maybe, but the vast majority of people either haven't heard of them or don't care about them.

Once again, I really don't think Duke D'oeuvre deserves a place on this page yet. I know he has plans to shake Malton up in the future, and maybe those will give him more than just name recognition to be remembered by. Regards, --DT^PK 03:05, 19 July 2012 (BST)

It sounds like you're the one who's bitter, Tom. You don't think Duke deserves a place on this page, and someone else has the audacity to disagree with you (cogently, I might add). "The vast majority of people" who play this game haven't heard of anyone on this list, including Jorm, Burgundy, and Bullgod. It takes a special kind of person to play a text-based zombie game for 6 or 7 years. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 17:58, 19 July 2012 (BST)

People always disagree with me, Paddy, as you well know. I love disagreements because they allow me to write walls of text. I don't know why I'd be bitter about it.

What annoys me is the blatant misrepresentation of my argument as "hurr durr Duke wasn't the first PKer therefore he can get fucked". And I agree, we are both definitely special people. --DT^PK 04:22, 20 July 2012 (BST)

Jorm

Duh. --WanYao 09:22, 12 July 2012 (BST)

Yes. 18:52, 12 July 2012 (BST)

Seconded. Jorm is a force of nature. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 06:04, 13 July 2012 (BST)

Thirded. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 06:50, 13 July 2012 (BST)

Uncle zeddie

Lol #grimjoke D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 14:17, 12 July 2012 (BST)

^ i approve--User:Sexualharrison16:12, 12 July 2012

Wasn't he nominated for historical and there was a big shitfit about it? Where can I find that? --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 16:45, 12 July 2012 (BST)

On the corner of every street, on the face of every child. User:RadioSurvivor may be a good start --Ross^lessness 16:52, 12 July 2012 (BST)

I can't find the historical bid. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 18:47, 12 July 2012 (BST)

Look in the misconduct archive under Grim's file. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:34, 13 July 2012 (BST)

And where the fuck might that be, Australian motherfucker named after a stupid game that only girls play? (I don't actually know if you're from Oz, but it's a pretty good fucking bet in this place. Also, I've had a bit of Maker's Mark.) --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 05:23, 13 July 2012 (BST)

You guessed right! Dont know if it's that much of an insult, but anyway, go to A/M in the search bar and go to archived and follow the links to Grim_s in 2008 D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 13:09, 15 July 2012 (BST)

Why would I insult a nation whose women are, per capita, probably the hottest on the planet? --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 18:09, 16 July 2012 (BST)

Uncle Zeddie was awesome and probably the single most interesting person in this game, no joke. Zeddie + Jorm + Ron Burgundy + Petrosjko for this category. Fin. --Karloth Vois ^¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:14, 12 July 2012 (BST)

Part of me wants to say no but I can make an argument for this. He's not like the others, he did control the public eye for quite some time though. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 06:05, 13 July 2012 (BST)

You want to lick him, don't you? --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 06:49, 13 July 2012 (BST)

Uncle Zeddie, for sure. His impact on the "culture" and community of Urban Dead was immense. --WanYao 07:21, 13 July 2012 (BST)

I am going to put him on the list, not because of the grim stuff, but because of the broadcast stuff. I went through a lot of the broadcasts last night, and they are still all available, as well as some other good blog stuff. It's interesting and adds a lot to UD. Does anyone have his actual profile ID? --Ross^WHO????ness 09:35, 13 July 2012 (BST)

That's a secret. ;) --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 14:08, 13 July 2012 (BST)

MICHAEL CORSAIR i used to have it somewhere but i must have cleared it out to make room.--User:Sexualharrison14:11, 13 July 2012

Vandar

http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/User:Vandr --User:Sexualharrison22:13, 12 July 2012

Not even close. He's a wiki-celebrity which tends to heavily imply lack of notoriety. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Karek (talk • contribs) 06:07, 13 July 2012 (BST).

that's like you're own opinion man.--User:Sexualharrison14:13, 13 July 2012

who? --WanYao 01:40, 14 July 2012 (BST)

Goolina

Lol is like hot and stuff and gives me nudes D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:35, 13 July 2012 (BST)

Jennifer Thrush before Goolina, yes? --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 05:16, 13 July 2012 (BST)

Goolina's an old friend and mostly awesome, and Thrush is a scary, scary lady who could compete with Akule in terms of sheer evidence-gathering correctness, but neither of them even come close to others on this list, like Jorm. --DT^PK 05:44, 13 July 2012 (BST)

Stop flirting with me, Tom. What is with you people? --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 06:46, 13 July 2012 (BST)

She did found the Gore Corps, no? And with an alt was a founding member of the the Quartly? She's quite significant, but not in the same category as people like Jorm, Petro, Ron Burgundy. --WanYao 01:42, 14 July 2012 (BST)

not a founding member but she did merry him in real life.--User:Sexualharrison22:43, 14 July 2012

Yes. She's a controversial topic among the dead and a high-priority target among bounty hunters. Furthermore, she's the most important person to the the history of the Gore Corps, which could be considered partially responsible for the formation of the MOB. --VVV ^RPMBG 19:43, 20 July 2012 (BST)

Finis Valorum

For all the wrong reasons D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:36, 13 July 2012 (BST)

No, and I hate you. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 06:06, 13 July 2012 (BST)

I'm not listing all those profiles. --Ross^WHO????ness 09:38, 13 July 2012 (BST)

No. --WanYao 01:42, 14 July 2012 (BST)

I love you so much kark D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 13:03, 15 July 2012 (BST)

+1 --hagnat 18:33, 18 July 2012 (BST)

---

Covetous Shen

Because EVERYBODY LOVES SHEN!--Shortround }.{ My Contributions 11:49, 13 July 2012 (BST)

shutup new guy--User:Sexualharrison14:14, 13 July 2012

Yeah, Get Out. This is Serious Business. There's not even anyone playing UD at the moment with that name. --DT^PK 14:36, 13 July 2012 (BST)

Who? --WanYao 01:42, 14 July 2012 (BST)

Amazing

Seriously, what the Hell? The most hated man in the history of Urban Dead has to nominate himself? Travesty! Heresy! Mustardseed! Aside from being a drama bomb of epic propotions and being a part of all the hot Caiger Mall seiges back in the day and leading THE group that kept Darvall Heights a safe zone for a wide timespan and THE group that kept over one billion survivors from starving, there's also the matter of the Sacred Ground Policy, Binoculars, Billboards, Feeding Groan, Other Things, and a UD clothing system that appeared immediately after the clothing system on Hell Rising. Also, being an integral part of early wiki history, including creating the numbered vote system (no, really) and probably a butt-load of other crap. Amazing was PKing and Griefing BEFORE it was cool. Back when you had to walk up hill in the snow just to register a the name of your enemy with a I in place of the l and smear their name throughout Malton. Miscombitration, witch hunts, it's all because of me. PEOPLE LITERALLY THOUGHT I WAS GOD. Bah! Baaah! (I appreciate your vote.) -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 04:47, 14 July 2012 (BST)

Also, what about how I pioneered editing pages instead of using preview?! -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 04:50, 14 July 2012 (BST)

	OBJECTION!
	This user has an objection.

--•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 04:51, 14 July 2012 (BST)

COCKPUNCHING BALLBLASTER ATAAAAAACCCCCKKK!! -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 04:55, 14 July 2012 (BST)

i think not.--User:Sexualharrison05:09, 14 July 2012

Welllll... then it's not actually a Persons of Note list, but a poopularity contest. lol look how I spelled that. :) -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 05:13, 14 July 2012 (BST)

You may buy my vote. ~ _{05:18, 14 July 2012 (UTC)}

Standard gold in basket, or are things about to get really weird really fast? -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 05:20, 14 July 2012 (BST)

The cost shall be 4x Misconduct cases and 1x sarcastically written human-powered, pedal-driven vehicle essay. Cheap. ~ _{05:49, 14 July 2012 (UTC)} 05:49, 14 July 2012 (BST)

I think we have a deal if paddleboats suffice. -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 06:06, 14 July 2012 (BST)

Pedal powered Zeppelin--User:Sexualharrison12:23, 14 July 2012

Oh, the inanity! -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 18:00, 14 July 2012 (BST)

who? --WanYao 18:32, 14 July 2012 (BST)

Maybe I imagined it all? -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 19:44, 14 July 2012 (BST)

As much as everyone loves to hate on Amazing, I was actually thinking of putting him forward. He was indeed the leader of a historical group, he played a role in the early sieges of Caiger Mall, and he did point out a few other in-game ideas that he had a hand in. His claim isn't entirely without merit, so it shouldn't be dismissed outright, regardless of his wiki shenanigans. —Aichon— 04:03, 15 July 2012 (BST)

What's his lasting ingame significance? Are those groups still around, as a powerhouse? Did he introduce a tactic which is currently a cornerstone of Survivor life? --DT^PK 05:06, 15 July 2012 (BST)

I don't see these guidelines being applied to other entries. Most notably the eternally loved Ron Burgundy. You could essentially copy/paste Ron's listing and swap out the links to create the "lite" version of an Amazing blurb. Besides, the fact that there's opposition to a clearly influential character/player only amplifies their "Person of Note" status. After all, if "Amazing" weren't "of note", would anyone here have replied to the masturbatory self-nomination? :) -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 06:35, 15 July 2012 (BST)

it's simple. no one likes you. --User:Sexualharrison13:07, 16 July 2012

No shit. I just like to make people admit that's the driving factor upon which they base their entire view of reality. "Is this noteworthy? No. Why? Because I dislike people I don't know for things they did before I got here." :D -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 05:57, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Quick note: I don't dislike you (nor do I like you more than the average user). As you said, you were before my time. The reason I'm not offering more of a defense for you is mostly because I don't want to get drawn into an argument on a topic I don't feel strongly about, rather than because of anything personal. —Aichon— 06:34, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Oh, no prob. I appreciate the comments anyway. This roundabout discussion is basically identical to the process back in the day. Honestly I'm kind of disappointed the new (to me) users follow in the footsteps of the old guard, but more than that I find it really interesting that I can come back here five or six years later and relive the "glory days" with eerie similatity. -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 06:39, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Most of the replies appear to be your own. On the other hand, this is a wiki. When someone posts something it must be replied to or else not all is right in the world. --DT^PK 06:40, 15 July 2012 (BST)

Oh, BERF. The number of my posts here have nothing to do with my original point. Let's not get all silly. To be fair, I can just answer straight-up, though. The groups I ran and/or created were still around years after I was banned here and left the game, and are both in historical status. As for tactics, I mentioned the SGP thing (I logged in recently and found the most zombies in my area waiting in a cemetery) and probably other stuff. Really I think that one's huge enough to just stop there. -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 06:43, 15 July 2012 (BST)

SGP is pretty big, as he pointed out. Otherwise, I have no intention of arguing for him. I merely wanted to push people past the "let's blow off Amazing because he's unliked" stage. Dismissing him is fine, so long as it's for valid reasons. I'm mostly staying out of all of this since I have no real interest in it and even less firsthand knowledge of the people involved (with the exception of Jorm, perhaps). —Aichon— 09:02, 15 July 2012 (BST)

Thanks. I don't necessarily care as much as it would seem (I came by and saw this page in recent edits and figure it'd be fun to make some noise) but it's always kind of disappointing when folks so obviously play favorites. Again, it's no big deal, so playing favorites is actually not a problem - let's just admit it happens. I would think being disliked is actually a check mark in my favor. No less than three groups were created ingame just to find and kill me as a group. I proudly snap my suspenders. -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 22:41, 15 July 2012 (BST)

Actually, looking at the current list I notice that with the exception of Ron and the expected entry for Kevan, it's shaping up to lean toward the standard gallery of faces oft revered by the community. Zombies and PKers and so on. This post serves no actual purpose and is probably a figment of your imagination. -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 07:29, 15 July 2012 (BST)

Beep beep you are trying too hard to simultaneously not care and also care. Beep beep ^{this notice brought to you by} --Karloth Vois ^¯\(°_o)/¯ 09:46, 16 July 2012 (BST)

I like talking. A lot. -- By which I mean I like to talk at length, and I also very much like talking. -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 19:00, 16 July 2012 (BST)

Despite hating him guts back in the time, i have to vouch for amazing today. He did contribute ingame, and several groups were created to hunt him and his group. His group take part of several important sieges, including both Caigar Sieges. --16:43, 16 July 2012 (BST)

Maybe it's because he's before my time, but I honestly don't have a fucking clue who Amazing is/was other than some wiki drama whore. I mean it, I'm not merely trying to be an ass, that's the truth. --WanYao 07:26, 17 July 2012 (BST)

I'm kind of sick of know-nothings (by your own admission) making judgement calls about me based on what you've read from the shit-heads who were such tremendous fucking bitches that they couldn't get over me PKing them and decided to dominate this entire wiki with their bullshit. If you don't know who I am or much about me, what possible benefit comes from name-calling and being a wiki drama whore yourself? -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 16:06, 17 July 2012 (BST)

I didn't want it to come to this, but I have in my hands a printed copy of the entire Wikigate proceedings, including the corrsponding talk page, and I will be reading aloud from it. I've locked all the doors and if the script leaves my hands, the explosive belt detonates. *AHEM*... "In the beginning..." -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 00:20, 19 July 2012 (BST)

Have I got time to get popcorn? --Ross^WHO????ness 00:35, 19 July 2012 (BST)

There is a perfectly acceptable bucket of popcorn positioned in my lap. -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 02:07, 19 July 2012 (BST)

Snipewulf

Less known than most names on the list, but the founder of the first large zed horde: The Undying Scourge (although its contemporary, The Many, has recieved more attention) -- Johnny Twotoes 17:49, 14 July 2012 (BST)

Jim Phil

He wasn't big on the wiki, but he was big on happy hour. I nominate Jim Phil, who started the The Burchell Arms Regulars with just a dream and a really, really severe drinking problem. Without him I'd probably be in rehab right now. You know, rehab? Where quitters go? Jesus Sante ^CFT 04:30, 15 July 2012 (BST)

Who? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:45, 16 July 2012 (BST)

Jim Phil, man. He's the most famous of all the Phils. Well, he's big in the NE corner, anyway. Jesus Sante ^CFT 04:29, 20 July 2012 (BST)

well nothing ever happens there so automatic no.--User:Sexualharrison05:47, 20 July 2012

xyu

the guy behind the Mall Tours, nuff said --hagnat 19:43, 15 July 2012 (BST)

I'd sign on for that. WARLORD XYU! --DT^PK 22:17, 15 July 2012 (BST)

most def. great leader.--User:Sexualharrison13:08, 16 July 2012

Yes. Between TSO and Mall Tour his impact is undeniable and he definitely has a Zar level cult of personality. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 03:15, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Zombie player? Automatically in, agreed. :D -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 20:19, 16 July 2012 (BST)

Yes. A pivotal part of a very important group. Could be considered responsible for creating the concept of a temporary zombie horde, which is a consistently successful, oft-repeated tactic. --VVV ^RPMBG 19:43, 20 July 2012 (BST)

Maybe --WanYao 07:18, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Cowboy Up

Because he was. Cowboy Up was a very common name in his day and even for quite some time after his day. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 03:00, 17 July 2012 (BST)

who? --WanYao 07:20, 17 July 2012 (BST)

You ever hear of CDF? Ever hear that they used to be the fourth biggest group in the game? He was a significant presence in the first few years of the game's history. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 23:25, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Ok, what about DHPD, they used to be huge, too? Or what about people who developed or formalised innovative and / or widely used tactics? Either the list is closed with the handful of truly influential folk mentioned, or it's opened up, like a can of worms. Decide. --WanYao 07:46, 18 July 2012 (BST)

Wan's never heard of Cowboy Up? Seriously? What the hell? -- DT^PK 15:24, 18 July 2012 (BST)

Cowboy Up and Swiper actually both meet that criteria of actually influencial. It's why I suggested them. DHPD's most notable event in their history aside from the Dead stuff would actually be a zerging drama, they didn't have cult of personality members of note beyond Marty or Conndraka and both have been more notable for wiki involvement and drama than anything else. Cowboy Up isn't just on here because CDF was big, he's on here because he was a 'Ron Burgandy', instantly recognizable and instantly recognized. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 17:11, 18 July 2012 (BST)

Ditto. --hagnat 21:48, 18 July 2012 (BST)

Sgt Whiskey Swiper

Also Swiper. Also for the sysops this, 'cause it's funny. He even at one point inspired a song. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 03:11, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Who?--WanYao 07:23, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Read. Back in the day this was a common name to come across, in addition to Zod, Cowboy Up, Sonny, and Ron(and his arch-rival). There was a time when groups like the ACC actually had name recognition, though it's been a few years. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 23:11, 17 July 2012 (BST)

ACC was never on my radar. Perhaps before my time? ... But there's the rub ... I don't know everything about UD, but I've been around a while and I educated myself on the early stuff I missed out on. And if ACC didn't make an impression other than, "Oh, I heard that name", then was their influence THAT significant? Maybe. Maybe not. --WanYao 07:51, 18 July 2012 (BST)

No but the Alliance of Giddings might happen to be something you've heard of anyway. ACC is still around iirc. But definitely of note before your time. Most people on this list with the exception of Uncle Zeddie are notable from before your time as well, some are only remembered due to vocal groups(Petro), some are only remembered now due to reappearing from the mists(Jorm, Katthew). They were all still game changing people that you remembered when you saw because everyone talked about them and what they were doing. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 17:18, 18 July 2012 (BST)

Zod Rhombus

Because if I'm nominating survivors notable enough for me to have noticed them as significant he'd probably qualify. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 03:17, 17 July 2012 (BST)

2nd -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 04:53, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Definitely, and not just because he's in one of the groups I'm in. —Aichon— 05:47, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Zod Rhombus was an important member and later leader of the Crossman_Defense_Force too. That group was somewhat noteworthy, as many gathered to hunt them down due their relation with Amazing. He often kept his cool and avoided being persecuted like their former leader, and managed to have some impact in the game. I vouch for him --hagnat 21:47, 18 July 2012 (BST)

Dhavid Grohl

You may fucking hate him ... I do... but you gotta admit, he had an impact. --WanYao 07:28, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Ah no--User:Sexualharrison08:55, 17 July 2012

He is more notable and influential than most of the half-asses and nobodies nominated above. --WanYao 14:38, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Which is why most of those have been heavily opposed. Zeug is more notable than Grohl for the same reasons but that doesn't mean you devalue the list by adding them. He also never had an impact on anything other than screaming about zerging and not zerging on the wiki and a few forums. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 23:14, 17 July 2012 (BST)

influential? is not really a word I would associate with TZH or this ass clown. it's a list of Persons of note. not persons who are fucking assholes for no reason except to be one.--User:Sexualharrison07:30, 18 July 2012

I'm just making a point. And, yes, Zeug would be a better choice than most of the dimwits above. But why can't a troll also be an influential figure, huh???

Oother than a handful of people, mostly all named already, very few characters have had a large and lasting influence on this game. So, why not just close the discussion and the list? --WanYao 07:37, 18 July 2012 (BST)

for once we agree. karlos had it right.--User:Sexualharrison19:15, 18 July 2012