Suggestion:20071112 Crossbows

	Revised
	This suggestion has been withdrawn for revision, the new version is here.

20071112 Crossbows

LumiReaver 21:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion type
New Firearm, New Skills, New Ammo

Suggestion scope
Survivors, and those being shot at

Suggestion description
I was playing Resident Evil 4's Mercenaries, and I suddenly felt a rush of inspiration. (Really though, using Resident Evil 4 as inspiration for an Urban Dead suggestion is not advisable) Crossbows would be a firearm with two or more kinds of ammo. They'd be the kind of crossbows you'd find mounted on walls in the homes of hunting fanatics. They'd be somewhere between pistols and shotguns in regards to damage per AP, though they'd be found in separate locations so search rates for the other firearms wouldn't be affected adversely. A crossbow's bolts would have to be loaded individually, so it would essentially cost 2AP to fire one (one to load, one to fire), making it a bit different from the current weapons. Accuracy wouldn't be affected by Basic Firearms training, as it would be a primarily civilian-used weapon.

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The Skills Crossbow skills would be civilian skills, mostly because if they were military, it would mean the military class would have to pay less for them, and they have enough of a boost with the other gun skills. The crossbow is supposed to be a hunter's crossbow, used for sport, anyway.

• Crossbow Training - Player gets +25% to hit with all crossbow attacks.
  • Advanced Crossbow Training - An extra +30% to hit with a crossbow.
  • Crossbow Adept - Allows the use special crossbow bolts (More on those below)

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Crossbow

Crossbows kick tons of ass, yes?

Damage Varies because of bolt options (Affected by flak jacket.)

Base accuracy 5%

Capacity One Crossbow Bolt

Locations Mansions (3%), Mall Sports Stores (1%), Junkyards (1%?)

Encumbrance 6%

Comments: I'm aiming for 4.5 damage per AP w/skills, and standard bolts, not counting finding ammo. That would place it between the pistol and the shotgun in terms of efficiency. Not too sure on search rates, but I think ammo should be a bit more common than just 7%. Because each shot takes two AP (one to load, one to fire), other methods of attack might be favorable for certain people.

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Crossbow Bolt (Standard)''

Used by Crossbow

Contents 1 Bolt

Damage 7 Points (6 against a flak jacket.)

Locations Mansions (7%), Mall Sports Stores (1%/4%), Junkyards (1%?)

Encumbrance 1% / 0% when loaded

Description A basic crossbow bolt. It costs 1 AP to reload a single bolt (click the bolt to reload). Reloading will always fill empty crossbows. A crossbow can only hold 1 bolt, so reloading a loaded crossbow will waste already loaded bolts.

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Crossbow Bolt (Explosive)''

Used by Crossbow

Contents 1 Bolt

Damage 12 Points (10 against a flak jacket.)

Locations Mansions (2%), Junkyards (1%?)

Encumbrance 2% / 0% when loaded

Description 5 points of extra damage, next to impossible to find, and balanced. Not too cheap, but a good, extra punch for the weapon. Really, because each shot takes two AP it's only 6 points of damage per explosive bolt, if you hit.

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There's some math here, you should check it out.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Change/Keep - Make it so that the accuracy when using explosive bolts is a hell of a lot lower. After all, you're trying to aim a crossbow quarel with explosives tied to it. --Seventythree^Talk 21:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
2. Keep - You worked too hard on this, it even has a picture!--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 21:59, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
3. Weak Keep - Never a fan of explosive crossbow bolts. I know the argument about realism in a zombie game is flawed, but c'mon. -J. A. 22:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
4. Change/Keep-No explosive bolts, and define search rates. The crossbow is better off as more of a weapon that overpowers a shotgun, instead of going in between, since it holds only 1 round. Otherwise, I'll crack soo many zed skull with that.--31337roxxor 01:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
5. Keep- Awesomeness! More weapons please. --Darth Lumis^{T! A! E! FU! U} 01:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
6. Keep I like the idea of explosive CBolts... ~A`Blue`Jelly^TME*V*I*L*_? 01:55, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
7. Weak Keep - well thought and crossbows aren't out of genre, but explosive bolts?.. Also answer to 31337roxxor: search rates could not be defined better, those for current items aren't even 90% known, not to talk about new --~~~~ [talk] 09:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
8. While it is somewhat out of genre it does offer interesting opportunities. I wouldn't mind this being in game. - Whitehouse 09:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
9. Keep - Seems fairly well-balanced. --Cyberbob ^{DORIS CGR U!} 09:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
10. Keep - but only if it loses the explosive bolts! Actually given how much power a crossbow delivers I wouldn't mind the basic ones doing 7 Damage. I saw one of these things punch a bolt through a fairly hefty tree at significant range. They can have waay more stopping power than a .38 pistol.--Honestmistake 09:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
11. Keep - I still like it. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 10:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
12. Keep/Change - Get rid of the explosive bolts (their just plain stupid) but the rest is good--Blobdude 23:55, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
13. Keep - Half life 2 FTW!!! now all we need is to upgrade the crowbar to do 3 damage instead of 2 :P. But seriously, good suggestion The man 09:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
14. Sex? Yes, please - Finally, a good survivor weapon suggestion! @Wan: Since when was the RE series Doom with zombies (which, I might add, is contradictory, since DooM has zombies)? Up until Four it was survival horror, and even with Four it doesn't have a DooM feel. Glenstone 05:22, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
15. keep yes, cause shotguns and pistols are boring, yay new skills. but no explosive bolts, though if you want an increased damage bolt just make it armor piercing and make it do 10 damage, same %'s as explosive but realistic. (armor piercing=flak jacket useless). RobotUtron 10:32 19-Nov-07 (UTC) what is UTC?
16. Author Vote - You know, I like it how I wrote it, but when RobotUtron mentioned armor piercing bolts, it made me feel like revising it. Especially since many of the kill votes address the explosive bolts. Should I really pull it for a quick revision? I could drop the explosive damage some, and make it ignore flaks. Or just rename it. :/ --LumiReaver 13:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
17. KEEP Another weapon. --O'Sheehy 23:33, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
18. KEEP - Yay, improvisable weapons! Prefer to either drop the boom-bolts or add a "misfire" (i.e. blows up on the user damaging user and crossbow) chance. ZEDU medic ^{T MEMS} 06:17, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
19. Keep/Change - lose the explosives, otherwise i love it--Corndoghero 00:06, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
20. Keep - i voted keep, but the accuracy does seem alittle, no...A LOT high for exploding bolts, its like if you throw a gernade and the person catches it on purpose. Remember arrows bend in the air so cann't be close to 100% accurate Anti gorefest5 --anti gorefest5 01:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. It's lacking an explanation of damage with Flak Jacket.. - Whitehouse 21:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

   Actually, if it wasn't clear on the talk page, it's one point removed for standard, and two for explosive. Because flaks negate 20% of the damage done by firearms. --LumiReaver 21:58, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

   Nice to know, you should include that on the actual suggestion page in future. I'm considering my vote now that I have the relevant information. - Whitehouse 22:07, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

   Amended. Thank you, by the way. ;) --LumiReaver 22:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

2. Kill Finding explosive crossbow bolts throughout the city? I don't buy it. --Pdeq 21:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
3. Kill Maybe there's room for hunting bows as a weapon, maybe. But explosive arrows? I don't think Oliver Queen is leaving his property around Malton. --Jon Pyre 22:08, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
4. Kill As Karek. Omega 22:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
5. Kill - check the stats, it's more toys for zombies we need. --Pavluk ^{A! E!} 23:58, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
6. Kill - I don't like this version. Needs some more polish and number-fiddling. It also needs to be a little vanilla like the current weapins are. No fancy stuff. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 10:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
7. Kill - I just figure that pistols and shotguns would do more damage than a crossbow. And, if crossbow, why not bow? Why not ninja stars, nunchucks and swords? Why not ... oh, it's a zombie apocalypse. --Funt Solo ^QT 11:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
8. Kill - The explosive bolts seem to be out of place, and I would imagine the encumbrance to be higher due to the bulkiness of the weapon; otherwise, it looks interesting. --Z. slay3r •  Talk  14:43, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
9. Kill - Explosive bolts seem excessive to me and I don't see the relevance of such ammo - current weapons like the shotgun have no explosive shells. --Ryiis 15:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
10. Very Weak Kill - Well done, i must say. However, I just don't like the idea of crossbows. Plus, it's another survivor weapon. UCFSD 17:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
11. Kill - No new guns. --Druuuuu 19:55, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
12. Kill - Becuase you have too many skills for a FUCKING CROSSBOW. Make the reload AP cost 20 because it's really hard to load a crossbow when you are being mauled by zombies, and i'll vote keep. -- BoboTalkClown 01:36, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
13. Kill - The combat statistics are balanced as they are right now, but for the sake of being fair then it should be pointed out that the hypocresy of some people that uses the "no new guns" argument is plainly obvious when they do vote keep for new zombie combat skills. --Matthew Fahrenheit ^YRC☺T☺+1 16:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
14. Kill For most part, I am okay with some flavour weapons and a crossbow does seem like an okay weapon for game play (maybe you could have a percentage chance to retrieve ammo?) But it does seem unnecessary, and explosive bolts? What the hell? I already got my fix from NOLF 2 thank you very much (hehehe, blowing up female ninjas). AllStarZ 07:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
15. Kill You put a lot of work into thinking up the idea, but crossbows seem out of place in a zombie apocalypse... WOOT 03:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
16. Kill For reasons noted above --Trunksoul 06:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam/Dupe - This is spam because its high damage for low encumbrance is overpowered (stored AP). And it is out of genre. Resisdent Evil is NOT genre. Resident Evil is Doom with zombies, meh. And, finally, this is suggested all the time, e.g. here and also here. Oh and rarity =\= balance.... --WanYao 22:06, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

   The crossbow is worse than the shotgun when you look at how much damage it does in relation to encumberment. I only mentioned Resident Evil 4 'cause it inspired the idea. This crossbow suggestion isn't based on the crossbows of that game at all. My crossbow suggestion is completely different than the ones you've provided. Lastly, the rarity of the explosive bolt is not an attempt to balance it. It's already balanced. It's only doing six damage per shot, assuming it's being used under regular conditions. The rarity only reflects how unusual it would be to find an explosive bolt. --LumiReaver 22:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

   Note the phrase "stored AP". Bottom line is that this is overpowered when you take into account stored AP. And, I really do not see a normal crossbow bolt doing more damage than a pistol, or an explosive one being more powerful than a whole whack of shot in one's chest. The main advantage of hunting crossbows, and thus their popularity, is twofold: legality and silence. Also, they actually have "clips" for modern crossbows, you know... So everyone will be clamouring for those... --WanYao 22:43, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

2. Spam - No new guns. --Karek^maps?! 22:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
3. Spam - One idea at a time, please. --Steakfish 01:43, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
4. Spam - As karek --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 02:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
5. It's a Dupe. Link was given. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 10:42, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
6. Spam - Out of genre, new firearm, explosive bolts, availability makes it about as useful as a flaregun to a maxed survivor and like a super-abusable flaregun to a newb, balance of bolt to bullet damage ratio when fighting the undead. - David Malfisto 14:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)