Suggestion:20080617 External Barricades

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20080617 External Barricades

Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 20:04, 17 June 2008 (BST)

Suggestion type
Mechanics change

Suggestion scope
Barricades

Suggestion description

As the materials that have for years been used to barricade buildings are starting to break, survivors are starting to use materials from the streets to barricade.

I was re-reading Barricade Bash: Version 2 when I had a sudden realization; if something is ridiculously easy for one side, the correct course of action is not to boost the other side. This just leads to zombies de-constructing the barricades in a couple of minutes, and survivors re-building them in another couple of minutes. The process repeats itself until one side runs out of AP. This rapid see-sawing back and forth is not very good for a game you're supposed to be able to play only about 5 minutes a day. IMO, the correct course of action is to nerf the ridiculous easiness.

To do this, I suggest that all barricade levels above VSB would have to be constructed from the outside.

Barricades could not be constructed from the outside at levels below VSB. If the barricades were at or above VSB, the button "Barricade the building" would also appear when outside the building. When barricading from outside, the items in the messages would include trash cans, bikes, traffic signs, benches and so on.

Trying to add to the barricades from the inside when the barricades are at or above VSB+2 would give the following message:

You try to add [X] to the barricade, but the building is too heavily barricaded. You cannot add to it from the inside anymore.

While barricade construction chances would remain the same, this would have several less direct effects on barricading:

• Exiting and re-entering the building to barricade costs extra AP, especially as the building will be un-enterable after barricading
• Survivors barricading from the outside would be exposed to attacks from zombies
• Accidental overbarricading would be practically impossible

Fort armouries and gatehouses would be excluded from this and would work just like they do now. This is because it would be impossible re-enter them after barricading over VSB, and you can't really barricade those kind of buildings from the outside anyway.

If you've got questions or doubts, the discussion from Talk:Suggestions might be able to address some of those.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep - Author keep. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 20:24, 17 June 2008 (BST)
2. Strong Keep - I think this is the best barricade suggestion I've read. Intriguing, different and balanced. --Karloth Vois ^{DR News} 20:28, 17 June 2008 (BST)
3. Keep - But only if Barricade Bash is passed because that would gives zombies far too much of an advantage. Ioncannon11 20:42, 17 June 2008 (BST)

   Keep - I endorse this suggestion. Also, Ioncannon's vote is the most contradictory one I have ever seen in the history of votes. -- Cheese 22:37, 17 June 2008 (BST) Wan has changed my mind. -- Cheese 22:44, 17 June 2008 (BST)

   How so hoe? Ioncannon11 22:40, 17 June 2008 (BST) -- Non-author re struck -- Cheese 22:44, 17 June 2008 (BST)

4. Keep - What are we supposed to use? Maybe the destroyed cars, an occasional dumpster, a broken city mailbox... Just some ideas. --BoboTalkClown 16:40, 18 June 2008 (BST)
5. Keep - death to overcaders--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 17:25, 18 June 2008 (BST)
6. Keep - Wan's vote is invalid....because he uses logic and shit.... -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:42, 18 June 2008 (BST)
7. Keep - I like it! Great solution. Torec _{T-CC/CS/CS/CS} 03:11, 19 June 2008 (BST)
8. Keep - I like the idea of forcing survivors outside to barricade to the extremes. As it is now, the cost isn't high enough for the protection it gives. Having to go outside amongst the zombies provides just that little bit of danger. As it is now, survivors don't need to go outside much at all -- boxy ^{talk • i} 04:10 19 June 2008 (BST)
9. Keep - Very clever. Makes barricading so that you actually might need to think a little instead of just click the boring button .- Grant (talk) 06:47, 19 June 2008 (BST)
10. Keep - I like the idea of exposing survivors to danger while they're playing instead of when they're asleep, and I like the change of scenery when barricading. I think this suggestion would come into its own when there's a lot of zombies outside, and barricades being outdoors fits well with the way zombies open doors after they've wrecked the barricades. Still, the against votes do raise good points about the flavour being odd. --Toejam 22:03, 20 June 2008 (BST)
11. Keep - Perfectly reasonable. --Pvt human 04:29, 22 June 2008 (BST)
12. Keep - excellent idea , i hope it gets implmented--Minigun4523 17:25, 1 July 2008 (BST)

    Keep - as above, Death to Trenchies. -- LABIA on the INTERNET ^{Dunell Hills Corpseman} #24 - |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ^TMG 20:16, 1 July 2008 (BST) Late vote struck. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 20:25, 1 July 2008 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. I don't know...usually when I think of barricading, I think of throwing a bunch of stuff behind the door on the inside... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:07, 17 June 2008 (BST)

   Re: Just think of this as throwing a bunch of stuff in front of the door on the outside :). The items used for barricading are usually pretty big. Some examples: a row of seats, a desk, some sections of car chassis, a table, a locker, a vending machine. If those are in the way, it's still going to be tough to get in even if they're on the outside. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 20:21, 17 June 2008 (BST)

   But, in a game based solely on a zombie apocalypse, throwing things onto a barricade on the outside leaves you exposed to a horde of zombies. Besides, there are things in a city called a "fire escape". --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:29, 17 June 2008 (BST)

2. kill - i agree with axe --Scotw 20:09, 17 June 2008 (BST)
3. kill - I agree with axe too. plus, if there's a zombie horde at the door, the last thing someone would do is go outside to protect themselves from said horde. --Officer Dick Trickle 21:03, 17 June 2008 (BST)
4. Incomplete-Exiting and re-entering the building to barricade costs extra AP... how MUCH AP? Also, logically, wouldn't it be EASIER for a zombie to tear down the barricade? If the stereo (or whatever) is on the inside, the zombies have to bang on the wall to knock them away. But if the trashcan (or whatever) is on the outside, can't the zombie move it easier? Also, it could be argued that with all that "free space" with the barricades moved outside that people would argue they should still be able to barricade inside too, balance notwithstanding.--Pesatyel 21:08, 17 June 2008 (BST)

   Re: - "Exiting and re-entering the building to barricade costs extra AP..." when compared to the present situation where you do not need to go outside to barricade. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Also, yes, it would be more logical that way, but that might be a bit too much of a nerf. I was planning on suggesting that separately if this gets implemented. Also, the point was that they wouldn't have much things to barricade with on the inside, so it wouldn't matter if there was more room. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 21:19, 17 June 2008 (BST)

5. Change - I want to be able to lock people in the Forts. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 22:20, 17 June 2008 (BST)

   Re: Even if this was applicable in forts, you wouldn't be locking people inside, you'd be locking yourself out. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 23:02, 17 June 2008 (BST)

   Re:Re Barricading an armoury or gatehouse above VSB prevents people outside from coming in, but also people inside from leaving. Yes, I'd be outside the Fort, but the people inside couldn't get out. Combined with a large-scale parachute attack, the results would be hilarious. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 23:49, 17 June 2008 (BST)

   Further discussion on the talkpage. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 00:07, 18 June 2008 (BST)

6. Kill/Change - As Wan. Make it outside up to VSB then HB above can be indoors. I repeat my statement about Ioncannon's stupidly confusing vote. :/ -- Cheese 22:44, 17 June 2008 (BST)
7. Kill - Seems backwards. You nail boards to the outside of the windows BEFORE you go inside, not after you've made it impossible for yourself to get back in. - Fred Fredfredson 04:26, 18 June 2008 (BST)
8. kill - it just sounds wrong --~~~~ [talk] 06:34, 18 June 2008 (BST)
9. kill - I would never like having to cade outside.--Jamie Cantwel3 ^TalkAll glory to the Hypnotoad! 07:04, 18 June 2008 (BST)
10. kill i see what you are trying to fix and agree that its broken, however this is not the fix we are looking for! --Honestmistake 09:41, 18 June 2008 (BST)
11. Kill Why would you barricade it from the outside? Outside barricades keep people in, inside barricades keep people out. It's easier to tear down an exterior barricade from the outside than it is from the inside. Sorry, but this suggestion is D.O.A. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 09:46, 18 June 2008 (BST)

    Re: Inside (regular) barricades keep both people inside and other people outside. External barricades would also do this. You can't enter a heavily barricaded building, just like you can't exit directly outside. Also, according to this, it's about 5% easier to tear downma regular barricade from the inside, than from the outside. That's not much. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 17:20, 18 June 2008 (BST)

12. Kill - Yeh! Barricading yourself out of your safehouse sounds like a really good idea! The resources of the street would be very limited and provide very little protection. You mentioned a bicycle - what good would that do?!? - Zig13 - 18/06/2008 at 10:06(BST)

    Re: About as much good as a projector, a chair or a heavy cardboard box. If you don't like barricading yourself out, you're free to stay inside. Someone is likely to do it anyway. It's not like coming back by Free Running is that difficult. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 17:20, 18 June 2008 (BST)

13. Change - I've never understood why zombies have to tear down barricades before opening the doors. I like the idea, but running outside to barricade, then finding another entryway to get back in to the place you just barricaded seems like a load of work. I like the idea, and I'd like to see a rework, but I can't support its current form. --Atticus 18:23, 18 June 2008 (BST)
14. Kill - I agree with WanYao; Up to VSB should be done from the outside, higher levels from the inside. As it stands this suggestion would make life even harder for those without Free Running. And in the case of gatehouses it would encourage griefing because the overcader would no longer be trapped inside. --Explodey 18:33, 18 June 2008 (BST)

    Re: ...which is exactly why I excluded gatehouses from this. I really can't understand how this would make the life of those without Free Running any harder, as barricading over VSB+2 would be more difficult. This combined with the fact that entry points would be sorely needed in order to get back inside after barricading, this would make it a breeze to find a VSB building to sleep in. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 18:55, 18 June 2008 (BST)

    Re: At present you can barricade your own safehouse to EHB without FR (by staying inside and barricading.) With this suggestion implemented that would not be possible. --Explodey 17:10, 19 June 2008 (BST)

15. Reluctant Kill/Change - I was totally set to vote keep on this (because of how this prevents overcading and would hopefully make an exception for certain places like Forts and Armories - as Midianian mentioned in talk), but a few people who voted kill changed my mind and brought up what I was concerned about in Talk:Suggestions - most notably Blake and Fred. I also partially agree with Wan, though I don't find this to be Spam at all. As for the 'Change' part, Atticus and WanYao make good points about reversing it. You should definitely try for a version 2 on this. --Tselita 20:06, 18 June 2008 (BST)
16. Kill - Doesn't seem like it would work out too well. --ZsL 21:53, 18 June 2008 (BST)
17. Kill - While this idea seems fine and I actually support it (to a degree), as it would make the survivor/zombie ratio even out QUICKLY, it will be too effective. Survivors are defense, don't throw the entire game off for a correction edit. --Vandurn 22:04, 18 June 2008 (BST)
18. Kill - Would be incredibly annoying. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:46, 20 June 2008 (BST)
19. Kill - Simply unrealistic. Think of it in terms of a castle siege. In movies, has anyone ever reinforced the castle doors from the outside when the armies sieging the castle are also right there? --Aeon17x 03:52, 20 June 2008 (BST)

    Re: - Even a simple battering ram does a lot more damage than zombie claws, making castle gates considerably more difficult and time consuming to repair, and as such, you would've been exposing yourself to a lot more danger fixing them. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 12:30, 20 June 2008 (BST)

20. Kill - I'd rather not have to lock myself out to have a very secure building, thanks. --Howard Bentley 02:13, 22 June 2008 (BST)
21. Kill - nerf to intentional overcaders. I'm not overcading altruistically, I'm doing it to trap other people outside, not to trap myself outside. Also, this suggestion just fails to make sense. --dgw 18:11, 22 June 2008 (BST)
22. Kill - Saving AP is hard enough, let along running around outside in danger just for the ironic safety it will entail. DanceDanceRevolution 08:02, 23 June 2008 (BST)
23. Kill As with everybody else.--NoFunAtAll 03:15, 29 June 2008 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - As I said in Development, this doesn't make sense and basically absurd. On so many levels. For one thing, why the fuck would I be going outside to bolt up doors and windows, the point of which is to keep stuff out. Logistically, that is totally illogical. People are pushing stuff up against holes, hammering planks to keep doors from being opened, etc. etc. This is done to barricade themselves inside and to keep bad d00dz and big nasties outside. And why the fuck would I be outside, building a barricade that I know is going to trap me outside on the street where I will die, wow, how smart!!! No, this is a ridiculous suggestion. It's a nice and very creative attempt to address the barricade thing, I credit you on that -- but it's still ridiculous. I did comment that it might make sense, and be more playable, if you had to go outside for the initial stages of barricading, i.e. up to VSB++. But you didn't like that idea. And I don't like this one, sorry. --WanYao 22:38, 17 June 2008 (BST)

   Re: It's called altruism. You know, doing something that might not be beneficial to you, but is so for the large amount of people inside. Is that really so ridiculous? --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 23:02, 17 June 2008 (BST)

   Altruisim isn't ridiculous at all. It's what keeps society together IRL, and in the fantasy world of UD, too. No one gives you a pat on the back for fixing barricades, because it's anonymous. Or for clearing that building of the couple of zombies inside and fixing it up, cuz no one else was around. Even those people you revived at the cemetery, odds are you'll never see them again, and you didn't spend 10 AP or more on the rewzz for a pat on the back and a thank you. No. But this suggestion just doesn't make sense to me on too many levels. Both the way it functions (it makes little sense to be barricading from the outside) and the fact that it goes too far in effectively "legislating" that altruism we've been talking about. Admittedly, I was harsh and used strong wording... but I *do* think it's something an absurd idea, and I've explained why... Sorry, I know this is your suggestion... and it's not meant to be a personal jab at all... it's about the suggestion --WanYao 00:20, 18 June 2008 (BST)

   Further discussion on the talkpage. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 01:12, 18 June 2008 (BST)

2. Spam - Altruism is for pussies and kindness be damned. This is a blatant attack on any anti-survivor character (read: PKers/overcaders). Also, it would be a pain in the ass to have to leave my safehouse in order to barricade it, then have to find ANOTHER +VSB building to sleep in. ALSO, this suggestion would theoretically allow someone the EHB an isolated set of building, making entry for survivors a royal pain in the ass. This suggestion is unsalvageable.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  04:23, 18 June 2008 (BST)

   Re: Could you explain what this does to "anti-survivor" characters, that this doesn't do for every other survivor? You don't have to be altruistic, you can still freeload by sleeping in buildings that are already EHB. Or just barricade a building nobody else is using, find an entrypoint and Free Run back into the building you barricaded. You don't have to stay in the VSB building, you know. As for EHBing an isolated set of buildings; you do realize that it's just as possible to do that now? --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 08:19, 18 June 2008 (BST)

   RE: You nailed it when you said, "Free Run back into the building you barricaded", that is just irritating IMO. I do not want to have to: a) Free run to a different building when I overcade on my PKer, or b)I don't want to have to find a entry point when I cade on my Dual Nature character. This just makes things more irritating for ANY human, pro-survivor or otherwise. I should've realized that you can make a group of building inaccessible with the current game mechanics; however, a spam vote this still remains.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  19:08, 18 June 2008 (BST)

3. :| - Two reasons to hate this, As BillyClub said... It's fucking stupid. And the other reason, There is no buff for zeds... Think about it, if you caded on the outside then wouldn't it be easier to rip down?--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 22:35, 18 June 2008 (BST)

   Re: Rant on the stupidity, non-sense making and backwardness aspects to appear on the talkpage some time tomorrow, or in a revision, if I make one. As for the zombie buff, I kindly direct you to my last reply to WanYao. Though, seeing how almost nobody except Vandurn has said that this is too much of a nerf, I might have been better off including that in the suggestion direcly. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 00:17, 19 June 2008 (BST)

4. Spam - why would anyone purposefully lock themselves out of a building, in streets full of zombies? --Funt Solo ^QT 00:44, 21 June 2008 (BST)
5. Spam - PHAIL. And as Wan and Billy. -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 20:30, 21 June 2008 (BST)