Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This section is for presenting and reviewing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. You can read about many ideas that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe: a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles.
• Users should be aware that page is discussion oriented. Other users are free to express their own point of view and are not required to be neutral.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• After new game updates, users are requested to allow time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Adding a New Suggestion

• Copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change, etc. Basically: What is it? and Is it new, or a change?
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check you spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past two days should be given a warning notice. This can be done by adding {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section, where date is the day the suggestion will be removed.
• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past week may be removed.
• If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the warning template please remove the {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section to show that there is still ongoing discussion.

This page is prone to breaking when the page gets too long, so sometimes suggestions still under discussion will be moved to the Overflow page, so the discussion can continue.

Suggestions in Overflow: No suggestions currently in overflow.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Crumbling Barricades Notification

Timestamp: Midianian¦T¦DS¦SP¦ 14:43, 14 June 2009 (BST)

Type: additional information

Scope: mostly zombies

Description: Remember that message you get telling you that someone broke down the last bits of the barricade? If you do (and my memory serves me correctly), you're probably a survivor, as this information is only available to them (to be accurate, to anyone inside a building). I suggest giving the same notification to anyone standing outside the building. Why? As a zombie you could see when other zombies are attacking the building, which could help ferals coordinate their attacks.

Discussion (Crumbling Barricades Notification)

Sounds good to me.--Zombie Lord 20:19, 14 June 2009 (BST)

I like it. --Haliman - Talk 16:45, 15 June 2009 (BST)

Yarp. -- Cheese 16:52, 15 June 2009 (BST)

Yarp. Link to profile supplied? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:53, 15 June 2009 (BST)

How about when the barricades get rebuild? Do zombies outside get to see that too? Seems logical if they would.--Thadeous Oakley 18:43, 15 June 2009 (BST)

With a link to profile if who/whet ever brought it down is on your side of the cade... likewise for rebuilds. Actually I wouldn't mind a link to those survivors my Zed "sways at" when they try rebuilding. --Honestmistake 23:34, 15 June 2009 (BST)

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Radio Chatter

Timestamp: Bjorn 12:45, 12 June 2009 (BST)

Type: Both New and Change

Scope: Both Survivors and Humans

Description: This is my first suggestion, so if something if wrong please tell me. Also, when I say people, I mean players whether they be Survivors or Zombies. What I am proposing is that when there are 5 or less people in a building or on a block, that any radio chatter that one person would hear, they would all here. This is realistic in a sense that with a low amount of people, you should be able to hear other people's radio chatter, but when there is even a slight increase in the amount of people, all the background noise blocks out other people's radios. There also would be a distinction from interior and exterior noise. If you and another person are standing outside a mall (usually filled with people) that count does not count against the maximum number of people for this to take effect. Also, the count would be a total of both Survivors and Zombies in a block; so it is a total of 5 or less players, not just survivors or just zombies.

Discussion (Radio Chatter)

I like this. It makes sense, given that there are few people in the area. --Bwii 1:07 13 June 2009 (BST)

Worst case scenario, this creates spam and leads to PKing. there are two ways to receive a radio transmission. Having a receiver in your inventory and being in a room with a transceiver. Either way I can control the receipt of transmissions. If some other guy has the radio however, I'd have to kill him to shut his radio up. The question you have to ask yourself is HOW this makes the game better and/or more fun? Realism is (or should be) a requirement for all suggestions but it shouldn't be ONLY reason. YOu can't hear gunshots (which would be much more useful) for example, so why should you be able to hear someone else's radio?--Pesatyel 04:10, 13 June 2009 (BST)

I don't agree with Pez's assessment, overall. But I don't personally see how this adds anything to the game, it's sort of ... fluffy. --WanYao 15:53, 13 June 2009 (BST)

Well I WAS speaking "worst case" but my main problem with it is that is not particularly useful.--Pesatyel 20:28, 13 June 2009 (BST)

Well, shutting off radio input could be extended to all radios. If a Transmitter can be shut out in Settings, surely that could be extended to other peoples radios as well. Still, I'm not too hot on this idea. Leaning towards this being "fluffy" as well.--Zombie Lord 20:35, 13 June 2009 (BST)

It is indeed fluffy, but its supposed to represent a small group of people, hiding from the horde, trying to figure out where the next safe place to go would be by listening to a bunch of radio channels. I think it would not be a spam issue because anyone that is going to be a griefer is probably not going to collect that many radios and then go to a place with 4 people or less (because he makes the 5th) and stand there hoping someone broadcasts. Also, if you don't like it, just log out and then log in and its all gone. --Bjorn 00:54, 14 June 2009 (BST)

Log out then log back in? Hows that suppose to change the station?--Pesatyel 03:40, 14 June 2009 (BST)

It won't. It'll just get rid of the 'Since you were last online' event messages. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 03:53, 14 June 2009 (BST)

I know, that was a little bit of sarcasm. It boils down to having to listen to some OTHER jerk's radio. If you log out and log back in, sure it will clear the spam from before you logged about, but what about the spam after you log back in.--Pesatyel 08:42, 14 June 2009 (BST)

How many times have you been playing when you get more than one message over your radio?--Bjorn 23:21, 14 June 2009 (BST)

Let me clarify; how many times have you been actively playing (moving, shooting, searching, etc) and gotten a message? Maybe once for your entire 50 AP. Most message are received when you log in.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bjorn9486 (talk • contribs) 15:52, 15 June 2009.

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Scent Trail Alteration

Timestamp: Bob Boberton TF / DW 03:36, 12 June 2009 (BST)

Type: Skill Change

Scope: Zombies with Scent Trail

Description: Currently Scent Trail only triggers when someone attacks a zombie. With this proposed change, a zombie remembers the scent of its last target and can track them if they move. A message such as "PLAYERNAME fled. (Now XN / XS, XW / XE) (Time)" would now be displayed if the last attacked target of a zombie moves away before they are killed. Of course, if the target or zombie dies before they log in again, the Scent Trail would be lost as normal.

Discussion (Scent Trail Alteration)

That makes sense. --Honestmistake 08:10, 12 June 2009 (BST)

I like this. --Rolfero 10:14, 12 June 2009 (BST)

I thought this already happened. If it doesn't, then it should.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:47, 12 June 2009 (BST)

Yep.--Necrofeelinya 23:44, 12 June 2009 (BST)

I'd vote Keep.--Zombie Lord 23:48, 12 June 2009 (BST)

What happens if I enter somewhere, attack a survivor, then proceed to groan and gesture, does that remove my tracking or is it simply the last successful attack is used as long as I stay in that location and the survivor runs? Which message takes priority: my last target, the most recent person to attack me, or both? I'm currently for this suggestion, I just want to make sure everything is covered. - User:Whitehouse 14:49, 13 June 2009 (BST)

I like the concept, but as Whitey, I think there need to be limitations/conditions, etc. --WanYao 16:00, 13 June 2009 (BST)

Well, Scent Trail allows a zombie to track the last person to interact (attack, heal, extract or revive), so there is are base. In this case, I'd imagine the tracking would apply in either facet. That is the LAST survivor to interact with the zombie (either by doing something to the zombie or the zombie hitting them) would be the trail. Other than that, why would anything beyond the perameters of Scent Trail need to really affect it.--Pesatyel 20:41, 13 June 2009 (BST)

I'm thinking I'll put this up for voting with zombies having one scent trail "slot" - whichever last interaction takes place (zombie attacks someone or someone attacks/scans/etc. the zombie) gets the location notifier. Any other previous actions either show nothing or "Scent lost." "PLAYERNAME fled" would always show for the last attacked target, but would obviously show "Scent lost" if another action was taken against the zombie in the intervening time. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 19:51, 15 June 2009 (BST)

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UD Building Status Widget

Timestamp: 9:26AM 06/11/09

Type: NEW 2.0 Widget

Scope: Survivor and Zombie Groups

Description: My name is Tahko Tetsujin and I am the current leader of Rotter's Relief. We have a website set up at http://www.rottersrelief.org I come to you after almost two years of building the group up from one office to five. Rotted revives are big business for us and the status of our NTs are crucial. Real simple. An urban dead widget that allows you enter the X and Y axis location of a building to track the real time status of the building to see if the lights are on, wheather the building is ruined, and if the barricades are up or not. This will allow groups with supporting websites, like us to check the status and make sure that it remains the way we wish for operations to proceed. This will not only allow quick access to status but encourage way more game play for groups. For example. If we see a building with no power, we know we aren't able to do rotter revives, so many of us will look for generators and come to that area to install. It could be a big boost for groups both human and zombie. Imagine someone doing a mall raid, they could make a widget to cover all the sections of the mall in their forums so they know how they are doing over all and if it's not going the way they want, they can assist quickly to the area they need too. I know this would REALLY help my group and I'm certain it will help other groups as well and I'm certain it can't be too tough to cook up. You can have the browser do most of the work so it isn't all internal operations. We really could use a feature like that. I hope you can make it for us. It would be awesome and it would encourage more game play. Also, this widget could increase the widget accuracy as you would be able to see status of a building in real time on the wiki. Thank You for your time and consideration. EDIT: Just to clarify, the x,y axis declaration would be made to generate the code for the widget for just that location, I never meant for it to be so dynamic that you can check all over the place from the same widget. For example, If I wanted to post the status of my NTs I would just input those and it would generate the code for the widget for just those locations.

Discussion (UD Building Status Widget)

The UDWidget isn't created or operated by Kevan, if I am correct. Plus this seems WAY too over powered.--Haliman - Talk 17:46, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Even if UDWidget isn't created or operated by Kevan, it would be great if an API or a method of Read-Only Access to the data would be adequate. In what sense is the suggestion too over powered? I believe that both Zeds and Survivors do have the "benefit" of accessing the information.

I guess instead of Real Time Data, maybe the information can be read on an hourly basis instead?--Natakaasd 17:52, 11 June 2009 (BST)

My idea was an independent widget from Urban Dead. I wasn't looking for a 3rd party solution. I'm speaking of something I can post in my forums, not a firefox extension. This can't be overpowered if it benefits everyone.--Tahko 18:04, 11 June 2009 (BST)

See: people who do not metagame.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:49, 12 June 2009 (BST)

Intel is a big part of this game. If a zombie can see a building with people inside and no cades, Free Lunch! No free lunches. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 18:52, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Nothing to do with player existence. Read above once more: Lights (Yes/No), Ruins (Yes/No), Cades (Yes/No). Tahko didn't mention about the number of Survivors or Zeds.--Natakaasd 18:58, 11 June 2009 (BST)

It's still over powered. Why should I be able to know the stats of a building I want to attack without having to actually do any data gathering myself? Why should I be able to see from four 'burbs which buildings look like the juiciest target without having to scout? Why should we get this info? So you guys can be lazy and not check the building status yourself? So survivors can hawk over the data and wait for a zombie group to try to break in somewhere, and they can come swooping and 'cade like hell? This idea is beyond salvageable, and should be tossed out immediately. If you want data so bad, get a person to scout out the target every couple of hours instead of, you know, suggesting something gamebreaking.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 19:11, 11 June 2009 (BST)

If that is to be the basis of discussion, then External Widgets like UDBrain would have made the whole game imbalance. I can go through those data files just like that and know most Cade AND Survivor/Zed Count. We are only interested in Building Status, nothing more.--Natakaasd 19:21, 11 June 2009 (BST)

UDBrain is a cheap ass tool for people who don't know how to play a game properly, nothing more. "Oh, wow, I got stuck outside with little amounts of AP! I better use the data gathered by someone else to save my ass!" "Look at this men, this entire suburb is empty, we can easily retake it! Time to travel half way across the city now that we know about this 'burb from data that we were too lazy to get ourselves!" And you know what? If your idea was implemented, guess how much faster your rotter stations would be messed with now that the people who disagree with them would know the status of them too?--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 19:39, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Don't care. People already ruin our game. If you don't see how important this is then you need to keep walking. This is why I didn't want to post this here because you people don't grasp the concept and are still poking holes through it. UDBrain is a firefox extention so is UDWidget. Again, I don't want that. Please read and understand that the concept is only designed to go on a webpage not for everyone to horde for themselves and it doesn't go all over the place, whoever had the bot generated code determines what locations are displayed. UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT FIRST PLEASE.--Tahko 19:40, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Why don't you learn to read a conversation before you bitch at people to understand a simple concept? I didn't bring up anything else, your friend did. Now, what you're saying is that the only people who get to choose are the people who have access to this bot? So basically it's just a tool to help you guys, and only you guys? Now it's not just over-powered, it's horse shit. So I should be able to suggest that Red Rum actually gets their Tommy Gun, because it'll "benefit" everyone?

Instead of screaming that we don't understand the concept, make sure that the concept isn't abusable all the same, and that what you're saying is clear and concise. Someone can just as easily create a widget for the places they plan to attack at a later date, and use that info. Look, abused all the same. The examples you use benefit survivors defending places, and survivors that are playing with rot to make it harder. You don't say exactly how it benefits zombies. That they can see the status of a building? Chances are if they can see it and attack said building, the survivors defending the place would have a scanner set up to tell them when their cades are down. Look at that, it just made it harder for zombies. Benefit them my ass.

If you're going to bitch when we find flaws in what you're suggesting, then don't put it here. This place is for finding the flaws and fixing them. If you can't handle us telling you why it sucks, why it's abusable, why it's game breaking, then really, just stay on your forum. inb4rants of "UNDERSTANDING THE CONCEPT"--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 21:05, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Sorry, this is totally wrong. When you use binoculars, you earn the information. When you run to somewhere and scout out the location, you earn the information. This is just asking for a free ultra-tracking-software, which makes no sense from an in-game perspective. And let's be honest, it should make sense from an in-game perspective for it to be considered good for the game. - User:Whitehouse 22:43, 11 June 2009 (BST)

in game is fine if you are just by yourself but I oversee a large operation and I can't bee in all places at once. It makes more sense for groups and would encourage more gameplay. I'm personally sick of being in the dark about most of my places and having to spend a weeks worth of AP on status because I have five offices all over Malton. I'm sorry for needing efficiency. I can have more people upholding and doing what they need to do instead of wandering aimlessly everywhere. I have an entire website dedicated to this game. I doubt many can say the same that is naysaying. So I would challenge thier perspective.--Tahko 23:49, 11 June 2009 (BST)

How do you explain this In-Game? Security Cameras placed all over? Psychic powers? What?--Zombie Lord 00:59, 12 June 2009 (BST)

No, Tahko/dontaco000. You're totally wrong. I was the leader of the largest human organization, the largest pker organization, and the largest zombies organization. I've led one of the most impressive pker events ever. I've led five historical groups. I've never had trouble with leading. All it takes is an IRC client, a centralized forum, and a theme. I did not need my own website. I never needed to check 5 places to make sure everything worked. That's why the leader has people under him in a hierarchy so that things run smoothly. When a leader does all the work himself then he's not leading. If you are having trouble leading then you're the problem. --Sonny Corleone ^{DORIS I jizzed in my pants pr0n} 01:01, 12 June 2009 (BST)

Why not just make your own private mod? I can name a few other private UDBrain-like mods that have direct links to infomaps and automatically update themselves with no effort on your part. Well, two, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more out there. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 02:24, 12 June 2009 (BST)

It's moot. This is NOT a game suggestion.--Pesatyel 02:29, 12 June 2009 (BST)

Thing is, asking for this in the game is quite a lot of Kevan, who's said (at least I think he has, somewhere) he knows he's not the greatest coder. Even if passed, I wouldn't be surprised if this sat in Reviewed indefinitely. It's just so much easier to make your own - and then you know it's going to get done and not a "maybe." Well, unless you're major busy and crazy indecisive like I am. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 02:50, 12 June 2009 (BST)

BobBoberton, do name them, if it is alright with the original makers and/or the groups using it privately. I'd like to have something for reference. Even so, the discussion goes on as usual. Thank you.--Natakaasd 03:12, 12 June 2009 (BST)

Well, one's listed on the wiki publicly so I might as well: the DEM's "DEMON" is one such tool. The other, unfortunately, is top-secret. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 03:16, 12 June 2009 (BST)

No wonder that name struck a chord. Thank you, pity no access. =/ --Natakaasd 07:23, 12 June 2009 (BST)

That's my point though. This has, essentially, NOTHING to do with Urban Dead. It would never even make it past voting because it is an outside extension. Simply put, if these guys want it, the can make their own.--Pesatyel 07:41, 12 June 2009 (BST)

We did make our own, however, I believe those that are actually making money off this site are missing out on a golden opportunity to breathe new life into a game and bring in old and new players alike. The biggest problem with this game is that 80% of the people who sign up get bored with how counter intuitive it is. I only play from the outside. I don't have time to run around in game myself anymore. It's good to know the status from a widget so I can mobilize the people who are in game to the proper areas. Good luck figuring out how to do it yourself, I'm not telling anyone.--Dontaco2000 09:34, 15 June 2009 (BST)

You only play from the outside! Are you honestly saying that your only role in the game is to co-ordinate the efforts of others and you want Kevan to make it easier for you to continue not playing? Step away from the keyboard and try to remember where you last saw your life.... --Honestmistake 09:57, 15 June 2009 (BST)

ouch..--xoxo 10:00, 15 June 2009 (BST)

Honestmistake, you just slandered someone for not playing an online text based massive multiplayer role playing game the way YOU think it should be played. If you care THAT much about what a random does, maybe you should be the one re-evaluating yourself?--CyberRead240 10:15, 15 June 2009 (BST)

Hardly slander as I doubt many people (including Dontaco) would consider someone who doesn't log on and actually play a character to be "Playing" the game... In any event my mockery was aimed at the sheer amount of effort Dontaco obviously puts into not playing a game designed to be played in a spare half hour a day... My participation in this WIKI is a different issue and one which I am reducing to work hours only ;) --Honestmistake 11:38, 15 June 2009 (BST)

No, I don't play in game anymore. I'm too busy with my group's website and my other websites. I'm sure you don't have a website other than some myspace page that has said "single" since you've started it. I know a widget like this is unconventional but if anyone pays attention, the people who are actually playing is tapering off again. It's boring to be a zombie and it's hard to be a survivor. No one wants to play this game anymore, see for yourself. All I was doing was trying to introduce a way to get people playing again. I mean it isn't like it is unbalanced, everyone would have access to whatever they wanted. If I had some direction I may play in-game and have my AP go towards what needs to be done instead of wondering around in-game until I get killed. Sorry. It's a game and why can't people focus on rebuilding suburbs? Because they can't organize the best they could. Mall defense and attacks would be much more epic and the average player could look at group pages and look at groups actions from a far. I think it would benefit the game way more than it would hurt. Of course, you guys fear real change. It's probably why this game hasn't changed much in the two years I've been playing it.--Dontaco2000 10:44, 15 June 2009 (BST)

I struggle to operate a wiki so its pretty fair to say a website is beyond me, I don't use MySpace but my facebook profile does list me as single (much to my girlfriends annoyance)so well done you for such remarkable perception. As for your assertion that this change would be good... it wouldn't, what it would do is allow players (I use the term loosely) like you to gain huge advantages for their survivors while giving no benefit whatsoever to the casual player. Zombies would find wide availability of a tool like this made their job a 100 times harder as co-ordinated groups of survivors could sweep in and clean up within hours. The game you want would quite simply not be fun for anyone else and would result in an even bigger drop in numbers than you already claim, surely you can see that the gathering of the data you want for free is a major part of the games challenge and having a tool do that for you lessens the game leaving it as little more than an exercise in button clicking with nor surprises, no challenge and absolutely no point! --Honestmistake 11:38, 15 June 2009 (BST)

One minute, you're confusing me. So, does everyone get it, or do you guys get it? Because you seem to have said different things at different points. If you do, then you need to make it yourself, if everyone does, then someone (preferabbly you, seeing as you're the one who wants it) should make it, and distribute it.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:00, 15 June 2009 (BST)

It's funny how people who doesn't get their way in suggestions accuse people of "fearing change". We don't fear change, it's just that we don't like or want many of the proposed changes. Hey, I have a great idea! How about we change the game so that instead of survivors and zombies, we'd all be mice and rabbits! By disagreeing with the proposed change, you acknowledge that you, indeed, fear real change. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 11:40, 15 June 2009 (BST)

Aye, the whole "the UD community fears change" has been popping up a lot around here recently. It's annoying, both because it's wrong (there's been many major changes throughout the game's history, see barricade blocking, ruin, etc,) and the UD community didn't go screaming to Kevan about how it destroyed the game. But, yes, the lack of logic doesn't matter - it's almost always used by a person when their suggestion is failing epically and they need a cop-out.

Secondly, painting everyone with the same brush makes you look stupid. There's people like Honestmistake (who can't tell their typewriters from their computers,) to people like myself (who would rather ATATGCATACT over 1001010010010101 any day. Don't know what the former is? Obviously got a Myspace page that says "single" :P,) and to people who manipulate said strings of 0's and 1's daily. In short - stereotyping is bad, and I have no idea as to why it took me a paragraph to say that. Linkthewindow  Talk  11:53, 15 June 2009 (BST)

"There's people like Honestmistake (who can't tell their typewriters from their computers,)" Hey! I'm not that technologically retarded, the computers the one that needs plugging in... I didn't even understand the rest of that post though :(--Honestmistake 13:39, 15 June 2009 (BST)

Wow. Insult the whole community. Because you can't get your own way and people don't like your crap idea! "I'm sure you don't have a website other than some myspace page that has said "single" since you've started it."

What an sshole.

There, I didn't take a whole paragraph to say that. :P --WanYao 12:13, 15 June 2009 (BST)

lol. You doin' it rong. See 404. Build your own, and get back in game, have other people assist you in corrdination. People with information can repair suburbs better? Not that information, it doesn't help in the beginning. "look at groups actions from a far." Who am I looking at? Groups are buildings? "you guys fear real change." You phear (unbroken and realistic) game mechanics. You still play this game? How do you justify this, you launched a supah sekrit spai satellite? _■^■ 02:43, 16 June 2009 (BST)

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Sterilisation

Timestamp: Blake Firedancer T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T. 02:19, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Type: Item + Skill

Scope: Survivors, Zombies

Description: Adds a new item to Hospitals/Infirmaries, called "Sterilisation Kit" (15% encumberance, in Hospitals for 5% base rate and Infirmaries at a 3% base rate). This item, when combined with the new Scientist Skill "Sterilisation Training", can be used to create sterilised rooms in non-ruined buildings, so that they can offer the +5 HP boost of Surgery (so long as the building has power). However, everytime the bonus is utilised there is a 25% chance that the sterile room will be contaminated, and will need another sterilisation kit to once again acquire the bonus. Zombies can ransack the sterile room no matter how many survivors are inside, and will gain 6 XP for such an action.

Discussion (Sterilisation)

Someone will complain that this is two suggestions is one, but I don't mind that part so much. I think the Hospital's +5 HP bonus has more to do with specialized tools (that require power to operate) than Sterilization, so idk.--Zombie Lord 02:56, 11 June 2009 (BST)

It "technically" is, however sometimes its necessary.--Pesatyel 04:16, 11 June 2009 (BST)

It is my interpretation that the rule only applies for suggestions that can be seperated (i.e. the parts can operate independant of each other, albeit at a reduced effect). However, as the kit is entirely useless without the skill (and vice-versa), the two-suggestions concern is mute. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 06:56, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Well, like I said, I don't personally have a problem with that part.--Zombie Lord 08:01, 11 June 2009 (BST)

So, you want to turn malls and NTs in the hospitals? The game needs to have MORE uses for the non-mall/nt buildings.--Pesatyel 04:16, 11 June 2009 (BST)

As pesa, above. Bad idea. --WanYao 08:02, 11 June 2009 (BST)

I would have liked the idea, but Pesa provides an interesting point.--Thadeous Oakley 21:24, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Just make it unusable in malls. There's too much area to sterilize or something.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 21:36, 11 June 2009 (BST)

I could say that the sterilisation kit requires a smaller room than what malls can offer. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 22:07, 11 June 2009 (BST)

There we go, biggest against problem solved.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 22:10, 11 June 2009 (BST)

True. You might do better just suggesting particular buildings that might be appropriate for this (rather than just "any but malls"). A school, for example, might be appropriate (nurse's office or maybe a science lab). Also, it counters malls, but what about NTs? That's not a good idea either.--Pesatyel 02:33, 12 June 2009 (BST)

Though being a scientific facility, it's resources and equipment would be on-par or better with a hospital. Just not capable of dealing with more than a few people at a time.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 02:42, 12 June 2009 (BST)

You mean the NT facilities? Of course, but that's the whole point. What two buildings are THE most focused upon in the game? Malls (for all the goodies) and NTs (for syringes). By comparison, the other buildings have relatively minor uses (even if you factor in that you can find FAKs in hospitals easier than in malls since, in malls, you can find essentially everything you need except generators, gas and syringes). The two factors that make hospitals useful are FAKs and Surgery. If you transfer the Surgery ability to the NT, you weaken (unnecessarily) the hospital.--Pesatyel 07:46, 12 June 2009 (BST)

I still think the +5 HP for Surgery is due to specialized equipment in Hospitals that need power in order to function. If anything a non-sterilized room would give a -HP penalty, with the Sterilization canceling the penalty. Idk, FAKS are "magical D&D wizard spell" enough already.--Zombie Lord 23:20, 12 June 2009 (BST)

I think the idea is that your taking the nessary equipment with you to set up at another location (ie. not just "sterilization" equipment). If you want to throw in a "realism" argument, I can't imagine there being that many places that you would find clean enough to perform surgery in in the first place (including hospitals) after years of quarantine. But, of course, that argument is moot. That is part of the reason I suggested a place like a school since a nurse's station would HAVE some of the "hospital like" things already. Oh, and I like the D&D analogy, but are you saying there is something wrong with the way FAKs work?--Pesatyel 04:23, 13 June 2009 (BST)

They are a little too magical for me as they are. I would prefer healing 1 HP per half hour inherently. With Bleeding rules that stop that inherent healing, with FAK's stopping the Bleeding (allowing the healing rate to resume). I'll suggest it one of these days, triggering howls of anger and consternation, I'm sure.--Zombie Lord 06:43, 13 June 2009 (BST)

Inane discussion removed.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 13:54, 14 June 2009 (BST)

Why not make it so when any player does any action (search, barricade, even free run through) then there is a chance that the Sterilization goes away. That way in heavy populated areas it would be useless.--Bjorn 12:50, 12 June 2009 (BST)

That would be undercut by the ability of any player to go into any building at any time, effetively speaking.--Pesatyel 04:14, 13 June 2009 (BST)

I think you chaps are overselling it. For a start, this kit comes from hospitals which means hospitals are now more useful. Anyway, imagine there's a hospital next to a mall, and you want to set up a station in the mall. That's an average of 20AP in searching (at 5% base rate), and two more to move and deploy it. For 22AP+ you've added an average of 20HP in bonuses. (at a 25% failure rate, that's the average if my maths is right) To match that you need only 2 FAK's. I am unsure what the new rate is, but it needs only be above ~9% to come out ahead given 22AP to search. --  RoosterDragon  14:36, 12 June 2009 (BST)

For starters, did you even read the discussion? Secondly, the numbers can be changed, that's the point of this discussion page. Surgery has always been more for situations when your really hurting. That's why it heals more, but doesn't give you additoinal experience.--Pesatyel 08:49, 14 June 2009 (BST)

Actually, I was thinking that NTs would provide an 'ideal' setting for sterilisation with a lower chance of contamination, as they are the most naturally sterile building other than the Hospitals and Infirmaries. On the other hand, NT buildings are already one of the extremely high priority target for zombies, with the others being the all-you-can-eat-flesh-buffet that is your local shopping mall and the stupid-meat-in-a-concrete-can known as the forts. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 06:27, 14 June 2009 (BST)

I was actually think the forts might nobe be a bad idea, since there are only two. Are they REALLY that contested? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking. If I were to pick "appropriate" locations, I'd say the zoo, schools, hotels, buildings and towers. The zoo and schools would most likely have medical facilities of some minimal kind. Hotels, I could see having minimally adequate conditions if you don't look to closely and the last two are so vaguely defined that they could be anything essentially.--Pesatyel 08:49, 14 June 2009 (BST)

They're no moreso contested than the malls. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 05:19, 15 June 2009 (BST)

---

New Class - Rotted Corpse

Timestamp:	Sorakairi 23:22, 10 June 2009 (BST)
Type:	New skill
Scope:	New characters
Description:	When you first choose your class, if you wish to be a zombie all you get is Corpse. Now you can get Rotted Corpse, which will arise within a 1 block radius of a cemetery. Rotted Corpses start with Brain Rot, and a temporary effect 'Stiff Limbs', which gives them a 10% accuracy boost for the first 60AP they spend, after which it is removed.

Discussion (New Class - Rotted Corpse)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: June 18 at 08:09(BST)

Wow.... an uber disposable ruin blocker.--Honestmistake 23:48, 10 June 2009 (BST)

Drop the "Stiff Limbs" and maybe...but Honestmistake does have a point. I do like the idea of having an "dedicated zombie" starting option though.--Zombie Lord 03:02, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Kind of silly and pointless. And, as HM, this is rather zerg-o-rific. --WanYao 08:04, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Ok, I take that back. Sorta. The concept isn't bad, and this would sort of explain how all these new zombies get created, out of nowhere... However, I still don't like it as an actual game change. --WanYao 08:09, 11 June 2009 (BST)

---

Military/Zombie Hunter Strength Skill

Timestamp:	--8devon8 18:14, June 8 2009 (DST)
Type:	survivor skill
Scope:	survivors
Description:	Give an extra amount of encumbrance. This skill will give an extra amount of encumbrance of about 15% or 25% but this skill costs around 175 or 200 EP. It would let players have a few more items to carry around but only a few because misuse by PKers. Also because of the small increase of encumbrance it may just be a useless skill.

Discussion (Military/Zombie Hunter Strength Skill)

Did you read the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots? If not, read it. If so, then why did you suggest this? Sorakairi 23:38, 8 June 2009 (BST)

I did read it but I didn't see anything about this and I did say this just could be a useless skill. 8devon8 18:46, June 8 2009 (DST)

I've fixed your formatting too (what's up with the last two people to try and use it flub it up? ;c), and this is unbalanced. We can already carry a crapload of stuff, and this just makes it worse. Oh, and what are "EP?" XP? :P "It would let players have a few more items to carry around but only a few because misuse by PKers." I think you might want to rephrase that bit, and remember that balance also includes zeds. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 00:00, 9 June 2009 (BST)

If I'm not mistaken "EP" is a spendable quantity similar to "XP" from an urban dead clone game. Play quarantine much? =P --_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 19:25, 9 June 2009 (BST)

I don't know, I just read it as the tactical term: "Entry Point." A >= VSB+2 building you can use to get inside and away from hungrah zambahs. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 19:27, 9 June 2009 (BST)

He means XP. And, expensive =/= balanced. And, this unbalances the game. And, people suggest encumbrance buffs all the time = dupe/ --WanYao 19:29, 9 June 2009 (BST)

I think it would make more sense to just add this as part of Body Building. But Survivors can already carry way too much crap...so does not make much sense in that regard. Maybe if Survivors were capped at 75% Encumbrance until they picked this up, and could only then carry the full 100%.--Zombie Lord 03:08, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Or maybe we should find a sillier way to Nerf survivors. Nope, Zombie Lord's idea here kind of takes the cake on that one.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:39, 11 June 2009 (BST)

Put down your five Portable Generators and cry me a river, bitch. :)--Zombie Lord 07:58, 11 June 2009 (BST)

As ZL. --WanYao 08:05, 11 June 2009 (BST)

I carry no generators, because there's no room in my inventory. If I want to carry a generator, I have to drop several of my items and get new ones after using the generator. Any Encumberance less than 100% would be a nerf. Kevan designed it around 100%, because 100% was the right amount. --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:58, 12 June 2009 (BST)

WHOOSH!--Zombie Lord 23:21, 12 June 2009 (BST)

You do realize that 100% is 100% right? If you could only carry 5 items total and you had 5 items in your inventory you'd be at "100%". I'm just curious why it is "bad" to actually use up items and replace them though. Don't you do that anyway?--Pesatyel

My comment says drop, not use.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:28, 13 June 2009 (BST)

You do realize that 100% is 100% right? If you could only carry 5 items total and you had 5 items in your inventory you'd be at "100%". I'm just curious why it is "bad" to actually use up/drop items and replace them though. Don't you do that anyway?--Pesatyel--Pesatyel 03:44, 14 June 2009 (BST)

---

Modified Military Frequency List

Timestamp:	--RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 13:19, 7 June 2009 (BST)
Type:	Flavour improvement
Scope:	Anyone
Description:	Ramping up those other military frequencies, for more spam free broadcasts. 25.90 Fort Overview. Broadcast once daily, alternating daily between each fort, just like a suburb report, but fort only. 25.91 Consumer Watch, random daily update on the state of a mall. 25.92 Devastation Report- Random daily report on building/s with over 100ap repair cost 25.93 Zombie Tracking. Daily report. Reports suburb with the greatest increase in zombie numbers and the greatest decrease in zombie numbers. 25.94 Phone mast report. Daily report on the status of 5 mobile phone mast buildings in neighbouring suburbs. 25.95 Malton Overview. Daily broadcast, highlighting any change in the zombie survivor ratio, plus random information on a non mall multiblock structure.

Discussion (Modified Military Frequence Use)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: June 19 at 23:59(BST)

Modified a few little bits. No Huge changes. Thoughts? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:19, 7 June 2009 (BST)

why? seriously... i just don't see a good reason for this... except to make people carry more radios. --WanYao 13:49, 8 June 2009 (BST)

You want reasoning? Oh man! The devastation stuff is good for the suicide repair inclined, and also for zombies wanting to salt the land. Zombie tracking is good for ferals, 100 zombies have just turned up in pitneybank, mmmmm brains. Hows that for a start? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:17, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Seems like too much free info, and I can't see why or how the military would care about badly ruined buildings or the cell network. --  RoosterDragon  16:44, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Well they already report if certain buildings are down, and noticing a building with its entire roof collapsed isn't the big a logicla step. As for the cell network, the military were the ones who turned it back on, so I guess they care. Was it just these two you didn't like, or the whole lot? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:38, 8 June 2009 (BST)

• They report on strategic buildings (NTs, malls, forts) that might inform them how the suburb is doing as a whole. So I'm not sure they'd care about some random buildings even if they are in worse shape.
• The cell network is what I'm not sure how they'd do it (probably should have worded this better before). I mean are they gonna fly over and try and get a cell signal from five random suburbs? Seems wasteful. --  RoosterDragon  18:25, 8 June 2009 (BST)

I think its more the big masts with the ingame flashing lights on the top of them that they might spot. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:38, 8 June 2009 (BST)

They could do, but that would be better suited to an extra comment in the current suburb reports. Five random suburbs is weird. --  RoosterDragon  19:57, 8 June 2009 (BST)

I dunno...seems like automated scouting for lazy Survivors. Make em work for it. :)--Zombie Lord 18:16, 8 June 2009 (BST)

I feel some of the broadcasts aid zombies equally. Any suggestions on how to improve the info for zombies? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:18, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Well, I never carry a radio as a zombie (for RP reasons), so I guess I'm biased. I have to say all of these make sense (except maybe for the Devastation one...the thing about that one is it would help Suicide Repair and I consider that one of the most anti-RP actions in the game). As an advocate for more realism I couldn't really stand against this without hurting my own cause, so you've got my Keep regardless. Still mulling over ideas to help zombies more with this; if I think of any I'll get back to you.--Zombie Lord 18:39, 8 June 2009 (BST)

That is getting into an area that I'm not sure Kevan wants to explore. Urban Dead zombies are still restricted by genre so gearing radio broadcasts specifically TO zombies is getting a bit out of genre.--Pesatyel 02:15, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Oh, idk, if that were the case the Kevster would probably just make all Survivor speech/broadcasts translate into gibberish for Zombies.--Zombie Lord 06:29, 9 June 2009 (BST)

No, I mean he was saying how to make the radios work FOR zombies.--Pesatyel 06:37, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Well, they pretty much already do. But I see what you mean.--Zombie Lord 06:39, 9 June 2009 (BST)

A few of these are neat concepts -- but I don't believe they warrant their own dedicated stations. Most of the info could be added to EMRPs as they are, and a couple (like highest zombie # burb) could be a broadcast on the same channel. --WanYao 19:32, 9 June 2009 (BST)

I still like the idea, but it seems as though I'm in the minority on that. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 06:44, 10 June 2009 (BST)

So same channel, or only a couple of channels? Ill have a quick think. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:59, 12 June 2009 (BST)

---

Melee Weapon Breakage V1.4

Timestamp:	Zombie Lord 08:32, 7 June 2009 (BST)
Type:	Improvement.
Scope:	Melee Weapons
Description:	Melee Weapons now have a level of Quality. This will be indicated in your Inventory next to Weapon name, like so: [Fire Axe (Pristine)]. When weapons are first found they will be assigned a Level of Quality randomly: 10% Pristine 20% Used 30% Worn 40% Battered Melee Weapons have a chance to degrade in Quality any time they are used to attack anything. If a weapon does Degrade it falls one level on the chart above. Example: If a weapon is Pristine and Degrades, it becomes Used. When a Used weapon Degrades, it becomes Worn. When a Worn weapon Degrades, it becomes Battered. A Battered weapon that Degrades is destroyed and disappears from the Player's Inventory. Chances for Degrading are divided between whether the target attacked is Hard or Soft. Hard targets are: Barricades, Generators, and Transmitters. Soft targets are: Survivors and Zombies. The table below shows Degrade chances per attack, followed by the average number of attacks you could expect to make before a Degrade. Weapon Hard Soft Pool Cue 8% 12.5 4% 25 Fencing Foil 4% 25 2% 50 Tennis Racket 4% 25 2% 50 Ski Pole 2% 50 1% 100 Golf Club 2% 50 1% 100 Hockey Stick 1% 100 0.5% 200 Cricket Bat 1% 100 0.5% 200 Baseball Bat 1% 100 0.5% 200 Fire Axe 0.5% 200 0.25% 400 Length of Pipe 0.4% 250 0.2% 500 Knife 0.2% 500 0.1% 1000 Crowbar 0.1% 1000 0.05 2000 Repairing Weapons A Survivor with the Construction Skill and a Toolbox may attempt to Repair a Melee Weapon by clicking directly on the Weapon itself in their Inventory. This costs 1 AP to attempt and has a 2% chance to Upgrade the weapon by one Quality Level. Trying to Repair a Pristine weapon gives the message: "This weapon can be repaired no further." Clicking on weapon when you lack either the Construction Skill or a Toolbox gives the message: "The Construction Skill and a Toolbox are required to Repair this weapon." V1.0, V1.2, and V1.3 can be found here for reference. Contributors: Kamikazie-Bunny,Honestmistake, Adward

Discussion (Melee Weapon Breakage V1.4)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: June 16 at 00:40(BST)

This sounds good. Although I know the RNG will make me lose all those weapons the second I use it. (Once when I were playing... 49 AP wasted, 10 pistol shots, 2 flare gun shots, the rest with a fire axe, and still NO hits!) --Rolfero 08:38, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Yes that RNG can be a bitch. I am convinced that anything under 50% chance is actually lower than it shows, and anything above 50% has a better chance than it shows. That's one thing that makes suggestions a bit harder, you can't really trust the RNG. Maybe Kev just boosts certain actions though. I know my Claws land more often than 50%/60%. So, I can't complain on that end.--Zombie Lord 09:16, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Again, WHAT is the point in having the quality? Does having a used/worn/battered weapon mean it does less damage and/or accuracy reduction? How about this:

• Used: -5% to hit.
• Worn: -1 to damage.
• Battered: -5% to hit.

So a battered axe would be -10% to hit and do only 3 damage while a battered baseball bat would be -10% to hit and do 1 damage. That might be a bit much, so how about this:

• Used: No effect
• Worn: -5% to hit
• Battered: -1 damage (or another -5% to hit).

The main problem with the suggestion (especially with my add ons above) is that it really just further relegates the "non axe/knife" weapons to more non-use.--Pesatyel 08:55, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Actually if the person you hit gets "X the zombie hunter broke a ski pole (or whatever) over your head for 2 damage, you take a headshot and die" style message then it might even encourage their use :) --Honestmistake 13:59, 7 June 2009 (BST)

That's actually a dupe and irrelevant to this specific suggestion (though I must say I like that idea much more).--Pesatyel 23:03, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Because the Quality levels allow me to multiply the longevity of the weapons with out going into even more unwieldy fractions. It also means its easier to tweak the weapons by just adding or subtracting Degrade Levels across the entire weapon spectrum, without shifting % for each one. It also gives a whole new dynamic, instead of every weapon you find being exactly the same, it allows for some variety you could not get with a single "all or nothing" break chance per weapon. What Quality also means is that you can see that your weapon is weakening, but still not be sure exactly how many attacks you have left, adding some uncertainty without your weapon break being a total surprise.--Zombie Lord 09:16, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Additional Comments, point by point:

1.Quality means, the higher the Quality, the longer your weapon will last.

2.While hit %/damage adjustments for Quality sound good, I can't really see how Quality would effect your ability to hit. Damage maybe, but only in some cases, like the Tennis Racket. A Knife is going to hurt pretty much the same no matter how Battered it may be, if it's buried in your gut.

Because of how simplistic the game is. Weapons only have 2 factors that affect the game. Damage and accuracy. If you reduce damage, then you make the weapon useless well before it is "broken". Accuracy doesn't have to be expressed simply as "hit or miss" in this instance but more of WHY you didn't do damage with the attack. In this case you "missed" (ie didn't do damage) because the weapon was worn out (the knife lost its edge, for example). Sure, its semantics but then the whole point of this exercise is leaning towards roleplaying anyway. And, yes, I ignored encumbrance because a "worn" bat won't get heavier.--Pesatyel 23:01, 7 June 2009 (BST)

3.Regarding "further relegates the "non axe/knife" weapons to more non-use". As opposed to now? I can't see how much of anything would further make the lesser weapons less useful. As it is now, once you pick up the Axe/Knife, you make all other non-specialty weapons obsolete for as long as you hold the Axe/Knife. With this suggestion you may find yourself without an Axe/Knife after a break and you just might then use another "lesser" weapon you may have. This suggestion only helps the lesser weapons, not much I admit, but it does help.--Zombie Lord 19:09, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Once more time for the thickheaded: needlessly and annoyingly overcomplicated. UD isn't intended to be one of those convoluted RPGs with pages and pages of combat results tables, weapons stats, "degradation levels", blah blah blah. There is no need, and less desire, for this level of complexity. it doesn't make anything more fun. I still say, a simple percentage chance for a weapon to break when it hits is fine. Make different %ages for different weapons, if you wish. But this as this suggestion stands, it's more like someone showing off that they can code fancy tables in wiki-ish than a workable change. --WanYao 18:44, 7 June 2009 (BST)

Fancy tables? That's a basic HTML table...not exactly "fancy". Heh...you amuse me to no end.--Zombie Lord 19:12, 7 June 2009 (BST)

I really didn't expect sarcasm to register in what one would -- in this case erroneously -- refer to as your "consciousness"...Yet, still, sometimes people manage to surprise me... --WanYao 20:25, 7 June 2009 (BST)

This must be an example of that "wit beyond 8 year olds", heh. Take your trolling to my Talk Page please. Thanks. :)--Zombie Lord 20:35, 7 June 2009 (BST)

This coming from the "man" who made some comment about "yer mum" and urination on these very pages, just the other day... Good one, ZL, keep up the fantastic work! --WanYao 13:43, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Now who was it bitching earlier about sarcasm not registering...heh, oh boy. :)--Zombie Lord 18:14, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Shut the fuck up already and deal with the actual suggestion. I did. It was you who ignored my actual criticisms and turned to mere trolling. Not me. Or... here's a better idea: since it's obvious that you don't give a shit about what people have to say about your suggestions, why keep wasting yours and our time posting endless minor variations of the same bad idea? Other than looking like a wiki alt of Zeug. created solely for the purpose of filling holes in his empty little existence, you're not accomplishing anything here. --WanYao 23:24, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Wan, your 1st input here was trolling so stop flinging shit. This is a developing suggestion on developing suggestions, Zombie is doing exactly what we try to encourage folk to do ie: develop a suggestion in accordance with feedback before posting it for voting. Or would you rather he had just posted the pretty shabby 1st version straight away? --Honestmistake 00:40, 9 June 2009 (BST)

We dealt with your criticisms long ago; you sort of came in late. Feel free to peruse the reference material provided above in order to find the answers that you claim to be looking for and all the input from others I have incorporated into this suggestion. Not that I think that you care about anything but growing your trollish Flame Cancer even more, but I guess there's always hope.--Zombie Lord 00:32, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Breaking melee weapons was fucking retarded in Silent Hill on the PSP and even more retarded in UD. Especially pointless since you can carry like a billion small weapons. Make the guns explode and kill survivors because they have to pack their own bullets and we will talk, but this is dumb. And that's being nice. -- #99 ^DCC 19:27, 7 June 2009 (BST)

---

Criminal class

Timestamp:	Brainguard 14:23, 6 June 2009 (BST)
Type:	class
Scope:	survivors, PKers
Description:	In an apocalyptic setting, there will always be looters, crazies, and just plain bad people. So shouldn't there be a class for them? Skills Robbery - increases melee weapons attack against humans Stickup - increases gun attacks against humans Vandalism - increases attacks against Generators and Transmitters Sabotage - increases attacks against Barricades Burglary - allows you to bypass Barricades up to VHB+1. Looting - increases search odds in Ruined buildings. Bootlegging - increases chances of finding Beer at pubs. Illegal brewery - allows you to make Beer for xx AP (similar to NecroNet for syringes). Weapons trade - increases chances of finding weapons at Police Stations Weapons dealing - allows weapons to be found at pubs Unliscenced medicine - increases chances of finding FAKs Unliscenced surgery - same as Surgery skill, however, gives 10% chance of Infection during surgery. Characters Crime Boss Starts out with Mobile Phone, Pistol, and Weapons Trade Starts out in Towers Advantages: ready source of weapons. DIsadvantages: not many skills. Inmate Starts out with Tagging, Spraycan and Knife Starts out in Police Stations and Warehouses Advantages: safe source of XP Disadvantages: few weapons Burgler Starts out with Length of Pipe, Burglary, and Construction. Starts out in residential towers. Advantages: can readily contribute to a cause (or zombie spy). Disadvantages: not many ready sources of XP.

Discussion (Criminal Class)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: June 19 at 04:29(BST)

There is not 1 single redeeming feature to this.... except perhaps that none of it will ever be implemented. I mean really, I do try to be nice and constructive here but this is so many bad ideas rolled into one suggestion that I honestly can't think of anything nice to say about it! --Honestmistake 14:58, 6 June 2009 (BST)

Oh and you seem to have messed up in formatting it too as all those "edit tabs" don't link properly?--Honestmistake 15:00, 6 June 2009 (BST)

fixed. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 17:07, 6 June 2009 (BST)

I don't support human-vs-human. zmobie-vs-human is the way to go. --Rolfero 17:26, 6 June 2009 (BST)

Wow.--Pesatyel 22:28, 6 June 2009 (BST)

Ow. --WanYao 07:06, 7 June 2009 (BST)

As Honestmistake... Strongly. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 07:53, 7 June 2009 (BST)

I appreciate that you've taken the time to submit this suggestion, but I'd like you to understand why it isn't good. You see, PKers are already more effective at finding and killing survivors than zombies are because they don't have to deal with barricades and they carry guns, among other things. This kind of crazy overpowered boost to PKers would herald a new era of human on human violence, diminishing the roll of zombies, and it would render all players who didn't start out with a criminal class impotent and over-matched. Try to consider how a change would affect the game play, and if you could get votes for it, and if Kevan would implement it.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 07:59, 8 June 2009 (BST)

What if I got rid of the PKer bonuses? --Brainguard 22:32, 9 June 2009 (BST)

It still feels wrong somehow. --Rolfero 22:42, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Well, first of all, your suggesting 14 skills, but they are ALL incomplete. You need NUMBERS. Secondly, Urban dead, unfortunately, does not have class differentiation. So imagine EVERYONE with ALL of those skills listed. That alone is significantly unbalanced. With the classes, the "disadvantages" are irrelevant. You would do better to, at least, flesh out your skills. But you'll probably want to go with one skill at a time.--Pesatyel 04:02, 10 June 2009 (BST)

As Giles.--Zombie Lord 20:04, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Firstly: Possibly the biggest advantage that PKers have in this game is that they can blend in with other survivors while using their own strengths against them. Secondly: The naïve character of this suggestion suggests to me in turn that you need to spend more time playing the game before making more suggestions. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 04:29, 12 June 2009 (BST)

---

Drunkeness

Timestamp:	Brainguard 00:37, 4 June 2009 (BST)
Type:	Item change
Scope:	Beer and Wine
Description:	Alcoholic beverages should make the player take half as much damage during their Drunkeness. However, all actions during that time cost twice as many AP, and accuracy is halved. The Drunkeness immediately ends when 90 minutes of real time pass or 5 actions are taken

Discussion (Drunkeness)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: June 16 at 22:39(BST)

FYI, you should put your suggestion at the top when you first place it. Much better chance people will see it. :)--Zombie Lord 19:53, 5 June 2009 (BST)

So what does everyeone think of this? --Brainguard 20:34, 6 June 2009 (BST)

The effects are too strong. Half the damage is like too good, and double AP is very "wtf" :(. With 5 actions, does you mean it ends after 5AP or after... well, five actions?

Halved accuracy is also :(. --Rolfero 20:40, 6 June 2009 (BST)

Five actions (each costing 2AP, making it nd after 10AP). --Brainguard 22:34, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Being drunk shouldn't be a good thing and this could make Beer & Wine even less used than they are now. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 20:43, 6 June 2009 (BST)

Umm, yeah! Being drunk slows you down and makes you less accurate. --Brainguard 22:34, 9 June 2009 (BST)

And makes you über-resistant against all attacks. Oh, and would the XP gained for damaging the drunk person be halved too? --Rolfero 22:39, 9 June 2009 (BST)

First of all, this has been suggested before. Secondly, what does it take to get drunk? What about "tolerance"?--Pesatyel 22:47, 6 June 2009 (BST)

---

Survivor and Zombie reading change(REVISED)

Timestamp:	MrCarver 20:49, 3 June 2009 (BST)
Type:	Gameplay and Logic
Scope:	Zombies/Survivors
Description:	Zombies should not have the ability to read spray painted messages. Messages spray painted by survivors should only be readable by survivors. This could add a more realistic sense of how public messages are relayed between survivors and change the game play slightly. The idea of a higher eduction zombie's ability to read graffiti or hasty written message is a bit of a stretch and should be removed. In place of removing the ability to read spray painted messages, I suggest zombies gain a similar skill to leave messages on/in buildings. In place of a proper skill name I will refer to the skill as "blood smear". Blood smear is no different than spray paint, except survivors can not read zombies messages. Zombie messages should be clear to the zombie player and should not translated into Zombie speak. When a zombie sees a spray painted message from a survivor the message "Vaguely familiar symbols litter the wall" appears. When a survivor sees a blood smear message from a zombie the message "Blood and flesh coat the wall." Zombies can only leave messages on/in buildings where a dead body lays at. This is in place of finding a spray paint can. Ripping an organ or body part out of a cadaver to leave a message adds a bit of zombie flavor. Use of the body to leave a message is similar to use of a spray can or replenishing health from a dead body. Overtime a body can no longer be used. Lastly, zombies and survivors can overwrite each other messages; just to be clear on the matter. I'd like to thank --GANG Giles Sednik CAPD for the additional idea to balance out the inability for zombies to read with a zombie's form of messages.

Discussion (Survivor and Zombie reading change)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: June 16 at 02:02(BST)

Uh, they can use weapons crudely. They're in the drop-down menu. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 21:02, 3 June 2009 (BST)

See I had a brain fart, I was thinking one thing and typing something else. I'll correct--MrCarver 21:18, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Also you have to remember that zombies are players too. While I don't bother with graffiti as a zed, others probably do... anyway the next step after this would be to suggest that zombies don't get to see what the buildings are cos they shouldn't care and that (while very canon) is also very shit!--Honestmistake 21:11, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Well that's a tough call. Many landmarks such as buildings offer familiar surroundings. How many time have you gotten and given directions based on buildings and not street names? I would suggest then that zombies without the memories of life, not see the building names until they got that skill. Basically they are lost, dazed, confused, and terribly hungry. --MrCarver 21:18, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Well, even that is not quite canon, Honestmistake. In DOTD the zombies were specifically attracted to the Mall because, "They just know they want to be in here". So they did have some understanding of building types. So I could see no reading without having to push it into not recognizing buildings and the like.--Zombie Lord 21:38, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I always assumed that they were drawn by memories of life... and the smell of course :) --Honestmistake 21:44, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Hmm, yes. Then again, Bub in DAY seemed to understand speech to some degree, and he even glanced over a book. Hard to say whether he could read or not...he also used a gun though...And I guess the movie never really makes it definitive on "why". Just speculation on the part of the living.--Zombie Lord 21:48, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Of course if we are being reasonable about things we should consider that once zeds do find a survivor hidey hole the survivors are trapped and invariably die when the zombies finaly get in... to that end we should bar free-running when there are more zombies outside than survivors inside, we should also have survivors who leave their safe little cades have a chance of being driven back in the same way zeds stop cading. Just running past any significant number of zeds should of course cause shed loads of damage. Oh hang on, this is a game and that wouldn't be much fun for the survivors. Now I am not trying to have a go at you in particular but all this type of suggestion saying "Movie Zeds can't do it so neither should UD zeds" basically boil down to screwing players for no actual balance reason, as such they pretty much always fail horribly. --Honestmistake 23:03, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I'm all for making it hard to move through masses of Zombies...I can't remember if I sent that one to Voting or not...--Zombie Lord 23:10, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I like this suggestion. It makes a lot of sense. Reading is definitely a higher brain function, and zombies aren't known for their higher brain function. --_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 21:23, 3 June 2009 (BST)

No. And a quick question, have you or Giles ever played a career zombie character? Honesty please.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 21:29, 3 June 2009 (BST)

nope --_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 21:53, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Yes, my id is id=1392383 for you to see. I play as a dedicated zombie playing in rotter mode. I'm just burning "extra" XP to increase my overall level with survivor skills. Nothing else to do other than that. --MrCarver 21:58, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I'd support this suggestion if it became: Zombies can't read, without memories of life. With MoL, they should be able to.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:12, 3 June 2009 (BST)

That's the only way this idea would work and, to be honest, I like it. It makes more sense to me. But beyond that, just saying "no they can't read anymore" is stupid. I'm guessing the author doesn't really play zombies much.--Pesatyel 02:39, 4 June 2009 (BST)

Also, MoL would mean more. Right now, you can open doors. Normally, you're either attacking the barricades, or someone else has finished them, and the door's already open. Normally, MoL isn't much, but adding this to MoL would make it a much better skill.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:43, 4 June 2009 (BST)

This is a shit idea. Zombie in-game communication is very difficult anyway, and this makes it worse - for example, I spray up recruiting graffiti for my zombie group, and that's screwed if zombies can't read it. This doesn't add any fun, and nerfs the side that has to work harder. Shit idea. Billy Forks 09:06, 4 June 2009 (BST)

This doesn't "nerf" zombies in any way. It's a perfectly logical decision, and if this was changed so that MoL gives them the power to read, then it would be pretty much perfectly fair. And in my opinion, Zombies don't have to work harder even in the slightest. Both sides have different things about them which make them as good as each other.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 16:57, 4 June 2009 (BST)

A nerf is something removed from one portion of the game making it harder for one side of the game to play. Making it to where zombies can't recruit via graffiti would be a nerf. And that in my opinion is not fair. Quite a few zombie groups use tagging as a way to get in touch with newbie ferals, removing their ability to see them at low levels would make it harder for them to get anywhere.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 19:04, 5 June 2009 (BST)

A nerf would effectively nuke the possibility of success. This would definitely not.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:23, 6 June 2009 (BST)

wat? A nerf is just one aspect of the game being made harder in some way. We even have a page on nerfing. This would definitely nerf newbie zombies looking for a horde to strike with. Why? Because it forces them to gain up enough xp on their own to buy MoL to try and find a link to a decent group. Not to mention how hard it is for a newbie zombie to get that XP from the start. Oh, and lets not forget how hard it will be for them to get back up to 100 xp again if they can't find a group to roll with. You last played a newbie zombie in 07? Methinks someone has forgotten how hard it is to start a zombie, and how even something as tiny as this can cause multiple newbie ferals to leave the game.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 16:16, 6 June 2009 (BST)

As the page you linked to says: "A nerf is something that effectively minimalizes (or even eliminates) an item or skill's effectiveness." This weakens, it doesn't nerf. And now, it doesn't even do that! All it does is mean that survivors have to spend 1 more AP when they retake a building, spraying over graffiti they can't read. And I actually last played a new zombie late last year. I started with my zonmbie in ridleybank, couldn't level because there was nothign there, so stopped playing it for a while. Then, in 2008, I started playing again, went to Blythville, and started gaining XP. I reached level 42/43 about New year. However, during this time as a zombie, I realised that most zombie player's claims of "unbalance" and "barricades being zombie nerfs" are unfounded, and that I could take down in one day with a newbie zombie.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:34, 6 June 2009 (BST)

I was just thinking about the logic of zombies not being able to read. I hadn't considered the balance issue there. So for the sake of balance perhaps zombies could communicate basic things with their blood smears that humans couldn't read. So they could post links and speak in zombie tongue via blood graffiti. So the justification would be that the smears contain smells and stuff that only means something to a zombie. --_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 20:24, 4 June 2009(BST)

__REVISED!__ Based on this comment, it offers a solution without losing the original idea. Gaining the skill MoL and then being able to read survivor message is to easy to overcome. It took me very little time to max out my zombie skills and MoL was one of the first. That would add little value to the overall game play. But a separate message system would be clever.--MrCarver 23:24, 5 June 2009 (BST)

I now hate this suggestion.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:23, 6 June 2009 (BST)

I second that. He just keeps making it worse. While realism should be a part of every suggestion, it should be there to help make the game MORE fun, not less.--Pesatyel 22:23, 6 June 2009 (BST)

I don't think the inability for zombies to read survivors tagging/messages makes the game less fun. If anything it makes it more fun through providing a challenge. Headshot doesn't make playing a zombie less fun. And this removal of a very trivial ability and gain a more realistic feel outweighs a crying few. I think if dedicated zombies like myself can stick around and still enjoy the game with the headshot, I think this makes more sense than say the unexplained ability for zombies to curl up and read a good book or newspaper. --MrCarver 03:01, 8 June 2009 (BST)

Because its a game people play for 5 minutes a day. Survivors already have several different, in game, ways to communicate. Zombies have 2 (and one you need a dictionary for). As for the "ability to curl up and read a book" why do you think we were suggesting allowing it once you had Memories of Life? I don't mind a challenge but making something UNECESSARILY impossible isn't a challenge. If you want a "challenge", you could just IGNORE the messages. I don't even read them half the time.--Pesatyel 02:02, 9 June 2009 (BST)

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New Skill "Rapid Infection"

Timestamp:	Yessir 12:18, 2 June 2009 (BST)
Type:	Realism.. it matters.
Scope:	Infected Humans
Description:	In most awesome zombie movies something along these lines happens. A human is scratched, bitten.. they have come into contact with a zombie. Now the suspense here builds knowing that it is possible that the person has become infected. Several moments later theyre sinking their teeth into their best friends` faces. It`s ridiculous that this cannot happen in urban dead. A zombie should have a 100% chance of infecting a human if it has "infectious bite" however, if they possess the sub-skill "Rapid Infection" then there is a 5% chance that the human will very quickly become a zombie with little warning (much like in awesome zombie movies). If a human is bitten by a zombie with Rapid Infection.. you`ll still lose 1HP per action point (because of infectious bite) but 10 AP later it will say surprise the player with, "your vision becomes hazy and you struggle to think clearly.." and 1AP (or very, very soon) after that.. "the virus has overcome your mind and body and you have an overwhelming need to feed on human flesh". You flat-out turn into a zombie on the spot, retaining your remaining AP without "dying", (dying: a slow and very anticlimactic way to become a zombie) with the option of feeding on your former friends. Also, just a balance issue - perhaps Necrotech employees should be able to recognize that a human is infected. This would work similar to the way that diagnosis works, i.e. JoeSixPack (26) (Infected). That way survivors have a better chance of dealing with infected people who may become zombies if appropriate precautions aren`t taken. This may also make the "bite" attack more appealing. Being bitten by a zombie is supposed to be a big deal and I think these changes would make the game more exciting, suspenseful and dynamic. If it sucks, by all means shoot it down; I know it would be a big change but I think it has potential.

Discussion (New Skill "Rapid Infection")

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: June 19 at 11:06(BST)

It's not very fair at all to have any chance to suddenly become a zombie. That's not fun or fair from a player's point of view. Seeing infections as a survivor is a touchy topic too, if I recall. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 12:21, 2 June 2009 (BST)

I'd vote for this except for a few very important flaws:

1. It would make it ludicrously easy for even semi organized zombie groups to get past barricades.
2. Almost every survivor carries a FAK and would cure this well before 10AP let alone more.
3. Would this "rapid infection" remain after death... ie if you get it and turn then get revived would it work again?

Even if you could find work arounds to some of these I think that too many survivors would scream blue murder if this gets suggested. It would certainly be an interesting twist for the next new city though. --Honestmistake 13:41, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Wow is that overpowered. I could see, maybe, after X amount of time you suddenly get hit for 2 (or maybe even 3 HP) for an action.--Pesatyel 03:44, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I'm also with Pesatyel on this one. And I understand what the author is driving at, but even in zombie canon (ala Dawn of the Dead) the infected person still actually dies before they become a zombie. So the idea of the infection growing worse and dealing more damage over time if not cured makes more sense. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 07:27, 3 June 2009 (BST)

If you change it to 2 or 3 health lost, then not only is it overpowered, but it's probably a dupe, and if you suggest it, then said dupe shall be found.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:32, 3 June 2009 (BST)

A flat change to 2 damage per action would be a dupe but working in a mechanism that allowed the infection to become more virulent (after 10 actions) and thereafter cause 2 damage would be a big enough change from anything I remember. Actually if this requires a new zombie skill and only works in a low % of attacks then it might even be possible to make it so a FAK only cures damage and resets the infection to normal rather than clears it completely once you get into the 2 damage per action zone. --Honestmistake 10:07, 3 June 2009 (BST)

I've seen a suggestion where there are two levels of infection, where one does 2 damage, then when you cure it, it gives you the original. So, that would be a dupe. I think it was plague, and it wasn't too long back. Not to mention the fact that that would still be completely overpowering.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:02, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Dupes: Number 1, Number 2, including taking two FAKs to heal.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:15, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Actually I WASN'T suggesting changing it to a flat 2 damage. The author was suggesting that when survivor gets infected, after 10 AP of activity, they IMMEDIATELY become a zombie. That's uber overpowered. What I was saying, instead, was after X amount of AP is spent (without the infection being cured) the survivor takes a hit of 2 HP (or 3) instead of just the normal 1 for that action' then it would return to the normal 1 for subsequent actions (maybe a nother "flare up" to 2 or 3 occurs later).

• Example: Bob gets infected and can't cure it. He loses 1 AP per action, as normal. But upon spending his 6th AP, he loses 2 (or 3) HP instead of the normal one. He then spends his 7th and subsequent AP which are back to the normal 1 HP loss. When he spends his 11th AP, he has another "flare up" where he loses 2 (or 3 HP) instead and his 12 and subsequent AP spendings are back down to the normal 1 HP per.--Pesatyel 20:46, 3 June 2009 (BST)

So you suggest that survivors should have no idea when they will be dealt more damage, and should therefore be left unawares to when they'll be dealt a massive heap of damage? No. Still don't like it.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:17, 3 June 2009 (BST)

2 HP instead of 1 HP is "massive heaps" of damage? Did you even read what I put? If you go by what I put, a survivor, by the time they've used 12 AP, they would be down 14 (16 at most) HP. Hardly massive over the 12 that would normally affect them, especially since it is spread out. And, no, I'm NOT strictly suggesting players not know when it happens. That's what I was thinking, sure, but that's not how it has to be. I'm not even suggesting it has to happen more than once. Do you know how often survivors ACTUALLY die of infection? It doesn't happen very often unless the players is like level 3 or lower. Most survivors carry at least 1 FAK on them just in case they are infected. Or they can pretty easily find someone to heal them for XP. Why do you think so many of us hear complain about infection being "weak"?--Pesatyel 02:58, 4 June 2009 (BST)

Have you played as a survivor? I have to ask, because normally, after getting up from being revived it takes about the same amount of health to find a FAK than you get healed. Now with malls gone, it's even more screwed. For those survivors in a swing-suburb, this suggestion would erase every survivor in the suburb. Instead of ending up at 30, they'd be at 25, and a zombie would kill them two or so attacks earlier, which is often all it takes.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:48, 4 June 2009 (BST)

I play a dual nature and I only have 1 character right now. WHICH suggestion areyou talking about when you say "this suggestion"? Yesser's "Rapid Infection" or my side idea?--Pesatyel 03:51, 5 June 2009 (BST)

I believe they are the same suggestion.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:32, 5 June 2009 (BST)

In what way? His IMMEDIATELY turns you into a zombie after 10 actions. Mine tacks on an extra 2 HP of damage over the course of 11 actions. Wow. EXACTLY the same. Why didn't *I* see it?-Pesatyel 22:19, 6 June 2009 (BST)

I thought he said he was changing it somewhere in the discussion..? No, wait, that was someone else, the user hasn't turned up yet.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:06, 12 June 2009 (BST)

---

Zombie Items

Timestamp:	Necrofeelinya 05:18, 26 May 2009 (BST)
Type:	Zombie toys
Scope:	Zombies
Description:	A heavily modified version of Kamikazie-Bunny's Ravage Corpse idea. Feed On Corpse now would provide more than just HP to zombies, it would also serve as a search which could reveal a selection of organs to serve as items in a zombie's inventory. The items would be as follows in order of rarity, with most rare at the top: Brain - When eaten, you gain 5 HP and your next 5 successful attacks gain double XP. Also, gain Memories of Life for the next 5 moves. No added bonus for multiple brains eaten. These would be rare, but valuable since they are the focus of the zombie's obsession. Heart - When eaten, gain 5 HP, -1 damage modifier to attacks against you for the next hour. No added bonus for multiple hearts eaten. Bone - When used, your next 5 attack attempts w/hands get a +1 damage modifier, bone is then auto-dropped. Liver- When eaten, gain 3 HP and the Infection ability for the next 5 moves. Lung - When eaten, gain 4 HP and the Feeding Groan ability for the next 5 moves. Eye - When eaten, gain 1 HP and for the next 5 moves gain the Scent Blood skill and ability to recognize NT buildings. Spleen - When eaten, gain 1 HP and the Death Rattle ability for the next 5 moves. I assume Kevan would choose a specific encumbrance and search % for each of these, so I haven't suggested anything exact for that. Zombie items would only be found on non-reviving corpses, of course. This way, the zombie has good reason to want these in its inventory, and zombies become more fun to play for those who tire of just 'cade bashing. And of course, since AP has to be spent searching for these things, the benefits are offset by the time spent looking for them, like with firearm ammo for survivors. The zombie FAK and defense aspects aren't that big of a deal, except for those who want to avoid being killed while using Scent Trail so they don't lose the scent of their attackers, but because of the way Scent Trail works they're still relevant. And an "all organs" option could be added to the Drop Item dropdown menu for revives, or they could just fling the body parts at others for no damage. It would give zombies a zombie-relevant inventory and add interest. And baby zombahs get the opportunity for temporary high-level skills by finding items, adding to their playability.

Discussion (Zombie Items)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: June 16 at 03:45(BST)

I changed the effect of "Eye" because the binocular effect was a little far out, and I toned down the effect of "Brain", which may have been too strong, while adding an effect that would benefit baby zombahs. I didn't want to get over complicated with "Bone" by adding meat to it, so we're left with what's above. I figure the best part of it is the usefulness for less experienced zombies... most older zombies will see most of these items as just light FAKs, but younger zombies could get real use out of them. Sorry about swiping your idea, Kamikazie-Bunny, but I also wanted to shift it away from the notion of destroying a corpse and just incorporate it into the whole "Feed On Corpse" concept. I've deliberately left the notion of how characters might throw organs at each other after revives vague... I figure that would make a separate suggestion if this were to get implemented, or Kevan would implement it however he wants with this. I did a couple of quick searches for Dupes, and didn't find them, which surprised me. So let's see if this thing bucks the trend and gets a positive response. Whaddya think?--Necrofeelinya 05:18, 26 May 2009 (BST)

I like the idea, but I haven't played a determined zombah. So while I think it sounds fun and even interesting for low-level zombies, I want to hear what some more career-zombie players have to say. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 06:28, 26 May 2009 (BST)

Other then the "FAK" proprties associated with the body parts, older zombies would not really bother with any of them. They already have all the abilities listed, effectively.--Pesatyel 03:12, 27 May 2009 (BST)

Except for Brain, Heart and Bone, which all provide benefits for older zombies, although maxed zombies would probably be most interested in Bone, maybe Heart. Also, the FAK value shouldn't be underestimated. It's possible that zombies could benefit from healing to keep Scent Trail functional. You lose a harman's trail if you or the harman are killed, so avoiding death can sometimes be extremely important to zombies, if rarely.--Necrofeelinya 08:06, 27 May 2009 (BST)

I wasn't underestimating the FAK value. That's the ONLY "good" thing about this suggestion for older zombies. Older zombies don't need the "brain" benefits. If they aren't already maxed, they can acquire XP much eaiser then newbies who do need it so that's canceled. How does "bone" confer a bonus? Is it a melee weapon? And "heart" is way overpowered.--Pesatyel 02:21, 28 May 2009 (BST)

I think the fact that older zombies won't get as much use out of this to be a plus. They get to actively choose whether to pursue these items or not. It may not be in their interests, depending on the % chance of finding something useful. Maxed zombies are already powerful, baby zombahs need help. Bone confers a bonus by added damage if you successfully hit with one or more of your next 5 attacks. When you choose to utilize it by pressing the button in your inventory, it modifies a hand attack with +1 damage for the next 5 attempted attacks. If you miss all those, you get nothing. Heart only confers a -1 damage modifier for 1 hour, so I don't consider that overpowered. It isn't cumulative with additional hearts. It's far less powerful than a flak jacket. It won't save a zombie from a determined effort to kill it, even with a standard 50 AP.--Necrofeelinya 07:50, 28 May 2009 (BST)

Your not listening. HOW does the bone "confer a +1 to damage"? Magic? Just saying it grants a bonus doesn't mean realism is irrelevant. And, yes, the heart is overpowered. Flesh Rot and flak jackets have restrictions, this does not. A -1 damage against ALL attacks? That's pretty powerful. And an hour is a long time considering that all the other effects are limited to "the next 5 actions". And how DOES it interact with flak? Does it mean that a pistol only does 3 damage? EVERY zombie would be "powering up" at the beginning of any attack (especially if a concerted effort).--Pesatyel 03:51, 29 May 2009 (BST)

Two questions, how will noob zombies (who is the only target audience of this suggestion, really) going to know the difference between a dead and non-revivifying body? Also, what happens to these items when a survivor tries to 'eat' them? D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:44, 27 May 2009 (BST)

I believe the game already accommodates discerning between dead and non-revivifying bodies. Don't you get a message when trying to feed on a revivifying corpse saying that it burns your mouth and you spit it out? At least I believe that's what it says elsewhere in the Wiki. And survivors wouldn't have the option of eating them. Just drop or throw, unless you want to add a suggestion where things get really gross, and which I would support wholeheartedly, of course.--Necrofeelinya 08:02, 27 May 2009 (BST)

Interesting. But I wonder how does the encumberance would work on these body parts...--Giles Sednik ^CAPDSWA 23:53, 27 May 2009 (BST)

Like I said, I figure Kevan will determine encumbrance as for normal items. I didn't want to set a specific number knowing he'd just choose his own anyway. But organs would be just like other items as far as encumbrance is concerned... they'd have a percentage, and you could only carry so many. If your zombie was already encumbered to the max, it couldn't pick up organs. It'd have to drop something.--Necrofeelinya 07:50, 28 May 2009 (BST)

I'm of the view that the MORE information you put into a suggestion the better it is "received" by Kevan. Whether or not he chooses to change the numbers is irrelevant. Without the information, you will be getting lots of "incompletes"....if you put this up for voting.--Pesatyel 03:51, 29 May 2009 (BST)

Older zombies aren't going to bother with this, they already have these skill effects, except for the NT identification (why is it they get this through eating bits of harmans that may not even have NT Employment?). Newbie zombies aren't going to take this because Digestion is one of the last two trees normally taken by zombies, claws or movement first, the other of that choice second. Rot might come as a third tree if CRs are a problem in that area (and they are, even if you're stood on a street) or Memories. The Scent tree is more attractive that the Digestion tree. The Digestion tree is only not going to be the final tree on those characters wanting to play the other side at some point, death cultists or dual natured players, Rot is more useful to actual zombie players and is bought accordingly.

Newbies aren't going to use it, older zombies have better things to do, what's the point? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 08:05, 28 May 2009 (BST)

Newbies may choose Digestion earlier because of this, much as zombies that previously avoided Brain Rot at all costs now choose it to get to Flesh Rot. I think Digestion is much more appealing than Rot anyway. What's a zombie without the ability to infect others? Right now newbies waste time on 'cades (usually missing), XP farm each other (dull and uninspiring), or chase hordes in the hope that someone drags a harman into the street to feed them (also not the biggest thrill). They could be empowering themselves with organ meat and gaining limited access to skills that otherwise would take forever for them to obtain. Older zombies can use the bonuses of Heart and Bone, they apply to everyone. NT identification as a feature of eye consumption implies temporarily improved perception... maybe they notice a sign zombies wouldn't normally notice. And honestly, I've never cared to get Rot. Just get bodybuilding and a flak jacket as a human. If someone CRs you, PK them. Not that the merits of Rot really matter to this discussion anyway.--Necrofeelinya 19:11, 28 May 2009 (BST)

What to take apart first? You are never going to pick Digestion before claws and movement, and you'll need Memories if you're going to be a feral. The wasted AP to get the items will be.... wasted in a half decent strike team or horde environment. As a feral I'd much rather have the scent skills to score kills for more XP rather than spend time on this picking up and using body parts malarkey.

The idea that newbies waste AP on cades is fallacious, all zombies must take down cades at some point and it takes a single skill (on top of VM) for a newbie to be just as effective at taking down cades as a fully levelled zombie. Any strike leader worth their title has newbies throw into the cades after a single skill in order to free up AP for the rest of the team to feed the newbie. Zombies more efficiently level and attack in a horde, but this idea doesn't fix it for ferals. It just forces them to by a substandard skill that doesn't help them level anywhere close to the standard way.

The point about zombie should be able to infect people is all well and good in fiction, where they get that skill from the outset, but they also get the useful skills in fiction like AG and BR from the start as well. Unfortunately in the game the ability to infect people costs 200XP and gives no return on increased hit or damage. It means that there is no decrease in the time between levels or the frustration in playing the game in that low levelled turgid manner.

This is a discussion about the merits of BR over Digestion, as it's a debate over how useful any skill tree is, and Digestion is simply the most pointless.

As for increased perception through eating eyes, go to your local fishmonger and butcher today and test something for me. Buy some fish eyes and some cow eyes and then eat them raw. Then look about and see if you can spot water and grass respectively more effectively. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 06:20, 29 May 2009 (BST)

I prioritise Digest&Infect over claws all the time, every zombie I've had feeds on the dead and digestion is a big part of that. From a purely numerical view point D&I is fairly pointless but most people are playing the game for fun, they're not 'trying to "win" at at the apocalypse'. Granted there is a small portion of people who play to win (they appear to be doing well...), read guides and adhere to them to become the 'best' player but I think it's safer to say more people use them as guides and play their own way and learn whilst having fun even if it's not ideal. We have Trenchies and Spammers shooting stuff and broadcasting pointless/entertaining messages all the time, I enjoy biting survivors, you appear to enjoy criticizing suggestions. It may be pointless but we enjoy it. --Kamikazie-Bunny 23:39, 30 May 2009 (BST)

I like the idea of zombies finding parts on their victims but if zombies have items they can use you get numerous problems:

• Zombies will now have to see their inventory in the main view (I have no problems with this but I bet some ass does),
• How to identify what is a zombie/survivor item (separate inventories with shared encumbrance/colour coding/trial and failure),
• I'm sure some one out there will bring back the whole 'Hel' argument (of which we'll see 'Hel' everywhere cause people want to sound smart using it) of zombies doing something a survivor can (searching/using inventory).
• Balancing of zombie items in the game, they we're designed not to need items so any items giving bonuses have to be very carefully balanced,
• And I just know some shit stirrer is thinking about the "Future impact on the wiki" argument where they use the fact that because zombies will now have items people will suggest items for zombies which will undoubtedly be spam and spoil their prettywiki.

Solve those middle 3 problems and I'll be happy with it. --Kamikazie-Bunny 22:57, 30 May 2009 (BST)

• How about zombies just are allowed to search buildings, and can find these items? Also, what if an Animal Corpse item is added, which heals xx HP when eaten? --Brainguard 02:58, 6 June 2009 (BST)

I personally really like it. This could be the thing that keeps me as a Zombie. I want to stay as a zombie, but they are just can't get XP enough. Sorakairi 03:45, 9 June 2009 (BST)

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Suggestions up for voting

Gameplay Change

This Suggestion is now up for voting as Gameplay Change - Stand Up. It's discussion has been moved to its talk page. --Zombie Lord 19:19, 9 June 2009 (BST)

A Horde Of Zombies

This Suggestion is now up for voting as Mobs, Hordes, and Swarms. It's discussion has been moved to its talk page. --Zombie Lord 20:30, 10 June 2009 (BST)

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