UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning/Archive/2011 05

This page is for the reporting of vandalism within the Urban Dead wiki, as defined by vandalism policy. On this wiki, the punishment for Vandalism is temporary banning, but due to security concerns, the ability to mete out this punishment is restricted to System Operators. As such, regular users will need to lodge a report for a Vandal to be banned from the wiki. For consistency and accountability, System Operators are requested to note on this board their actions in dealing with Vandals.

Guidelines for Vandalism Reporting

In dealing with Vandalism, time is often of the essence. As such, we ask that all users include the following information in a Vandalism report:

• A link to the pages in question.

Preferably bolded for visibility. If the Vandalism is occurring over a sufficiently large number of pages, instead include a time range of the vandalism attempt, or alternatively, a link to the first vandalised page. This allows us to quickly find the damage so we can quickly assess the situation.

• The user name of the Vandal.

This allows us to more easily identify the culprit, and to check details.

• A signed datestamp.

For accountability purposes, we ask that you record in your request your user name and the time you lodged the report.

• Please report at the top.

There's conflict with where to post and a lot of the reports are missed. If it's placed at the top of the page it's probably going to be seen and dealt with.

If you see Vandalism in progress, don't wait for System Operators to deal with it, as there may be no System Operator online at the time. Lodge the report, then start reverting pages back to their original form. This can be done by going to the "History" tab at the top of the page, and finding the last edit before the Vandal's attack. When a System Operator is available, they'll assess the situation, and if the report is legitimate, we will take steps to either warn the vandal, or ban them if they are on their second warning.

If the page is long, you can add new reports by editing the top report and placing your new report above its header in the edit screen.

Before Submitting a Report

• This page, Vandal Banning, deals with bad-faith breaches of official policy.
• Interpersonal complaints are better sorted out at UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration.
• As much as is practical, assume good faith and try to iron out problems with other users one to one, only using this page as a last resort.
• Avoid submitting reports which are petty.

Vandalism Report Space

Administration Notice Talk with the user before reporting or accusing someone of vandalism for small edits. In most cases it's simply a case of a new user that doesn't know how this wiki works. Sometimes assuming good faith and speaking with others can avoid a lot of drama, and can even help newbies feel part of this community. Administration Notice If you are not a System Operator, the user who made the vandal report, the user being reported, or directly involved in the case, the administration asks that you use the talk page for further discussion. Free-for-all commenting can lead to a less respectful environment. Administration Notice Warned users can remove one entry of their warning history every one month and 250 edits after their last warning. Remember to ask a sysop to remove them in due time. You are as responsible for keeping track of your history as the sysops are; In case of a sysop wrongly punishing you due to an outdated history, he might not be punished for his actions.

May 2011

User:Boxy

• Boxy (talk | contribs | logs | block | IP Check | vndl data | discuss)

Verdict	Incomplete
Action taken	None Yet

Attempting to set me up for an impersonation charge by signing another's post as my own. Original post here This type of behaviour is absolutely unacceptable from anyone, especially someone who supposedly knows better. --||||||||||||||| 22:56, 2 May 2011 (BST)

This is shameful behavior from a wiki warrior. Dreadful...--[[image:ryux.jpg]] 22:59, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism. Error of haste. Maybe Boxy would have known better if your sig would have been recognizable as yours to begin with? -- Spiderzed█ 23:02, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Thank you for proofing exactly why these signatures are fucking garbage. Understandable mistake, with good-faith in mind. Not Vandalism -- Thadeous Oakley Talk 23:11, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism - As Spiderzed.--Yonnua Koponen ^{T G P} ^^^ 23:16, 2 May 2011 (BST)

In his own words, it's pretty easy to check diffs, and anyone using {{unsigned}} should be doing so or they are committing Impersonation. Vandalism per policy; give 'em a Soft Warning on the condition of writing instructions on how to use {{unsigned}} properly, both for own and others' edification. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 23:17, 2 May 2011 (BST)

“	[A] user shall be guilty [of] impersonation if they improperly sign comments to mislead readers into believing that another user posted them	”
—UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Impersonation Law

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 23:19, 2 May 2011 (BST)

The irony here is actually mind blowing. So you do this to others who can't sign properly on votes when they are voting for you, completely against policy, but the second someone else does it in an unrestricted context because the user is using a signature that (in that form) doesnt link to the user and is illegal, you rule vandalism? Sigh -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 01:27, 3 May 2011 (BST)

I kinda think it's more simply that boxy signed it wrong and if he's attributing comments he should be damn sure before doing it? Not really about sides or bias. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 01:32, 3 May 2011 (BST)

My apologies, I thought the post had been made by Laughing Man, was edit conflicted in explaining. Even still, this is simply a product of the shitstorm that idiotic sig has made, he was trying to help out and failed because others are failing and not using a signature properly to have it link to the user who made it. It's good faith, we have precedent protecting people who are baited into "vandalism" (as a bold one may try and call it), still failing to understand how an advocate of "ignore all rules cause it's good faith" can just burst in on a vandalism ruling on a contentious issue of sigs (the similar rules of which he's broken scores of times) -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 01:35, 3 May 2011 (BST)

Incompetence all around with you dipshits, isn't it? It's not fucking difficult to check to see who made what edit and fix things accordingly, but apparently you can't even handle that. --||||||||||||||| 01:51, 3 May 2011 (BST)

Incompetence all around with you dipshits, isn't it? It's not fucking difficult to make a signature that links to you, but apparently you can't even handle that. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 01:58, 3 May 2011 (BST)

--||||||||||||||| 02:00, 3 May 2011 (BST)

things this user needs to deal with -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 02:02, 3 May 2011 (BST)

Please read what I am saying (including the links) before jumping to conclusions. Tagging comments, votes, or anything you believe to be lacking a valid signature is permitted by policy. Tagging them incorrectly constitutes Impersonation per the same policy. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 21:22, 3 May 2011 (BST)

You just linked me to a rejected policy. Congratulations. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 16:00, 4 May 2011 (BST)

Finally, someone I know followed the link. DDR, you win a cookie!
Yes, itdid not pass voting, but it and the attendant discussion are still very relevant, IMO. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 16:39, 4 May 2011 (BST)

To be fair, while the policy as a whole was rejected, it still summarizes a lot of cases that constitute an act of impersonation, and have been applied as such on A/VB. However, I still think boxy's good faith and the marginal magnitude of his error by far outweigh the "impersonation" he has done in this case. It's not like the identity of the original poster was easy to determine to begin with, so he hardly made the wiki worse. -- Spiderzed█ 16:44, 4 May 2011 (BST)

“	In his own words, it's pretty easy to check diffs…	”
—I wonder who said this?

Not Vandalism Bless the goose. --Rosslessness 23:22, 2 May 2011 (BST)

You mean the gander? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 21:22, 3 May 2011 (BST)

Nice to see this go about the way I expected. The important part is getting your bias and incompetence out in the open where everyone can see. Also, I love the way you all quickly ram your cocks into each other's asses to make yourselves feel good. It's just a beautiful thing to behold. --||||||||||||||| 01:18, 3 May 2011 (BST)

Whatever floats your boat, dude! -- Thadeous Oakley Talk 16:46, 4 May 2011 (BST)

You consider cocks rammed into male asses as a beautiful thing to behold? Eww! *backs away slowly* -- Spiderzed█ 16:56, 4 May 2011 (BST)

He's a goon. He knows just how low the Internet can go. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 17:10, 4 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism - Lol are you fucking serious -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 01:27, 3 May 2011 (BST)

in before the intelligent ones answer the rhetorical question -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 01:28, 3 May 2011 (BST)

--||||||||||||||| 01:31, 3 May 2011 (BST)

things this user needs to deal with -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 01:35, 3 May 2011 (BST)

User:Sykic

• Sykic (talk | contribs | logs | block | IP Check | vndl data | discuss)

Verdict	Not Vandalism
Action taken	None

Deliberately signing with an illegal sig on the case about that sig -- Spiderzed█ 13:22, 2 May 2011 (BST)

If you'd paid more attention and tried to see through your hatred of Goons, you'd notice my signature changed about an hour ago. But hey, we can't let a little thing like "facts" get in the way of a good witch hunt, right? --||||||||||||||| 13:29, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I'll give them a day as a grace period before I rule, but if they don't change them, then yeah.--Yonnua Koponen ^{T G P} ^^^ 13:26, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Abstain – Conflict of interest. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 13:30, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism-- Thadeous Oakley Talk 13:32, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism Bless. --Rosslessness 13:35, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism - Read the sig policy properly before bringing folk to VB over it. -- Cheese 13:38, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Also, until we sort out the mess below, don't keep spamming VB with goons. -- Cheese 13:43, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism - Lack of bias on my part proven. Can we now move on? -- Spiderzed█ 22:43, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Your point has been made. I'm tempted to take you to A/VB for posting these. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 23:23, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Go ahead. I'm not one to pretend that I stand above the WIKI LAW -- Spiderzed█ 16:42, 3 May 2011 (BST)

“	Before Submitting a Report Avoid submitting reports which are petty.	”
—A/VB#Before Submitting a Report

I hope you can see why I am conflicted. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 21:27, 3 May 2011 (BST)

Vandalism I'm afraid I have to rule that using a signature that appears identical to so many others is in fact vandalism. I feel that they purposefully cause confusion by being misleading. While there are no governing guidelines that state explicitly that shared signatures and identical looking signatures aren't permissible, I feel a judgment call should be made. I have never invoked the Sysop General Guidelines stating that I have the right to make these types of judgment calls nor do I plan to make a habit of it but in this case I do believe it is warranted. I recommend that the other ops try to come to a consensus over shared signatures and in the meantime I recommend a soft warning to whomever uses the signature in question. ~ _{01:04, 3 May 2011 (UTC)}

Not vandalism - let's just let these go as long as they weren't used after the case below was finalised -- boxy 12:26, 4 May 2011 (BST)

User:Laughing Man

• Laughing Man (talk | contribs | logs | block | IP Check | vndl data | discuss)

Verdict	Not Vandalism
Action taken	None

Deliberately signing with an illegal sig on the case about that sig -- Spiderzed█ 13:22, 2 May 2011 (BST)

What's it like being retarded? Do you realize you are an incompetent mouthbreathing fuckstick or does what passes for a brain filter the world into something that shelters you from knowing just how fucking stupid you really are? --||||||||||||||| 22:32, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Abstain – Conflict of interest. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 13:30, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism - Read the sig policy properly before bringing folk to VB over it. -- Cheese 13:38, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism - asked to change, changed. Perfection. --Rosslessness 22:36, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism - Lack of bias on my part proven. Can we now move on? -- Spiderzed█ 22:43, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Vandalism See my justification in the above case regarding User:Sykic. ~ _{01:04, 3 May 2011 (UTC)}

Retard See my post above for why this moron is a fucking sperg--|||||||||||||||||||| 22:32, 3 May 2011 (BST)

Not vandalism - let's just let these go as long as they weren't used after the case below was finalised -- boxy 12:25, 4 May 2011 (BST)

User:Capt Schwartz

• Capt Schwartz (talk | contribs | logs | block | IP Check | vndl data | discuss)

Verdict	Vandalism
Action taken	Warned

Isn't it against the rules to post Humorous suggestions on the main page?--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 10:31, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Vandalism - Why yes, yes they are. --Yonnua Koponen ^{T G P} ^^^ 10:54, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Vandalism -- Spiderzed█ 11:37, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not funny, ergo Not Vandalism.
It is, however, crap, just like its subject material. Last I checked there was no rule against crap suggestions, but you better believe that I am watching it like a hawk for enough Spam votes to appear so that I can sysop spaminate it. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:02, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Technically, I believe it only requires intent for it to be humorous rather than actually being funny.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 13:30, 2 May 2011 (BST)

vandalism - (and even if you do it humorously but deadly seriously it's still intent and vandalism). -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 14:36, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Can we get a final ruling on this?--The General ^{T U! P! F!} 11:20, 4 May 2011 (BST)

Warned - taking skills away because you hit them with a book... right. Warned -- boxy 12:07, 4 May 2011 (BST)

Huh. I forgot it was {{notfunny}}. I'll pay that. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 16:40, 4 May 2011 (BST)

User:Deadman Walken

• Deadman Walken (talk | contribs | logs | block | IP Check | vndl data | discuss)

Verdict	Incomplete
Action taken	None Yet

Pointless account designed to impersonate thad and prove some point about impersonation by signing as such on admin pages. Thanks. Banned under 3ER--Rosslessness 00:48, 2 May 2011 (BST)

This op approves of the action. Also, filled out verdict. -- Spiderzed█ 00:51, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I love the ones we can nuke. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 13:32, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Confused. Account has no contribs? Was it all images or something? --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 15:29, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Wrongly formatted verdict template. You should now see the surviving contribs. The others were about creating a sig to impersonate Thad. -- Spiderzed█ 15:33, 2 May 2011 (BST)

The surviving edit looks like they were trying to make a point, not impersonating. Still confused. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 15:36, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Here's one of them Sig.--Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 15:39, 2 May 2011 (BST)

another one. --Rosslessness 16:17, 2 May 2011 (BST)

That's the one I was commenting on about him obviously just trying to make a point actually. I was more looking for the missing 2 edits that aren't in his contribs history.--Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 16:50, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Did the user only make two edits... -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 17:03, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Like I said, its no doubt an alt account of someone trying to make a point, if other people want to vote not... ill happily overturn my actions. --Rosslessness 17:28, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Alts aren't autobannable, making a point isn't bad faith. You really probably should overturn and have a real case here. Especially when it's obviously not an account for impersonation. Also, is the alt claim based on checkuser evidence? --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 22:55, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Checkuser doesn't confirm, and neither shows a proxy. Ross, is there a third edit and/or something I don't know about the IP? Else, we need to undo the ban ASAP. -- Spiderzed█ 23:16, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Do I get to rule on this one? He posted on my talk page, after all. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 23:26, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Why would that be relevant? --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 23:29, 2 May 2011 (BST)

↓ ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 03:08, 3 May 2011 (BST)

We aren't as dedicated to selecting and claiming bias here as you are, so no. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 00:57, 3 May 2011 (BST)

I have no idea why I said no. I meant no problem, not no you couldn't. sorry. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 04:26, 3 May 2011 (BST)

I was wondering… OK, newbie error, Not Vandalism. I'd say Soft Warning but that seems redundant considering the ban they've already served. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 16:22, 4 May 2011 (BST)

I've unblocked the account thus far. It does not fit 3ER rule and no proof of impersonation has really occurred yet that can't be ruled on by the ops -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 00:57, 3 May 2011 (BST)

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to comment here, but I'd like to thank Karek for being the coolest head here. Really, I was just trying to be funny/witty and I was hoping it was abundantly clear that I wasn't at all impersonating thad. Sorry for the trouble, and thanks again to Karek for being so kind as to step back from the drama and give me my fair shake. --Deadman Walken 01:11, 3 May 2011 (BST)

As the accused user, it is your right to respond here; thank you for coming back and being so polite after such an unfriendly welcome. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 03:11, 3 May 2011 (BST)

burn the witch! --Karloth Vois ^¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:10, 3 May 2011 (BST)

It wasn't witty, and copying someone's sig exacly, and just tacking it on after your own name is likely to, and is intended to, confuse or annoy others. So don't do it. Vandalism -- boxy 12:21, 4 May 2011 (BST)

I apologize. Confusing or annoying others wasn't my intention. I figured that tacking someone else's (an established someone else, at that) sig onto my own, a red name, new user should throw up flags right there and then that "No. I am not in fact Thad." to anyone involved in business relevant to this page. Given the way the argument was escalating, I thought it would be a good time to finally post, and see if we could steer discussion away from slap fights. Given the content of the post (as compared to the first post), anyone with common sense could tell that Thad was not posting. I'll give you that it was probably inappropriate at the time, and truly, I apologize for that, but I think the post was negligibly disruptive and I felt the content brought up valid points for discussion.--Deadman Walken 16:15, 4 May 2011 (BST)

Soft Warning. User is a newb and has already amended the signature. Along with the misapplied ban that could have stayed under the radar forever if Karek hadn't spotted it, I see no point in slapping an escalation on that user. I think he had a rough enough start as it is. -- Spiderzed█ 16:27, 4 May 2011 (BST)

User:Underisk

• Underisk (talk | contribs | logs | block | IP Check | vndl data | discuss)

Verdict	Not Vandalism
Action taken	None

Using the Template:Goonsig in his signature counts as impersonation.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 00:33, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Will hold off on that for now until the case below is sorted out. There are more than them two involved. -- Spiderzed█ 00:39, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Fair enough. Yeah, I know more than two of them involved. I've put this guy up because he said in the case below that we should be A/VBing the people who are using the sig.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 00:44, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Gonna go ahead and point this out now for you WIKI LAWyers: I haven't used this signature anywhere but on this very page, where it's currently being discussed. --|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Underisk (talk • contribs) 01:06, 2 May 2011 (BST).

not vandalism - You could at least wait for us to outlaw the template officially before trying to get everyone on here. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 03:34, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Abstain – Conflict of interest. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 06:47, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism We can start escalating the use of this once the case below has been solved, but not earlier. -- Thadeous Oakley Talk 07:09, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Nothing for now - We can do a case about it after the case below is ruled on.--Yonnua Koponen ^{T G P} ^^^ 10:54, 2 May 2011 (BST)

So, yeah, now that the case below is sorted out: Vandalism. Creating such a sig is one thing, and a thing that has been resolved by getting it fixed. Using the non-fixed version on an admin page despite knowing that it is against policy? That's different and blatant bad faith. -- Spiderzed█ 11:36, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Shouldn't he get the required notice and grace period specified in the signature policy? It's only just changed, FFS; there's a reason those provisions exist. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:06, 2 May 2011 (BST)

There is a difference between a casually active user making an innocent mistake in his sig formatting, and deliberately switching to an illegal sig to comment on an admin page on the very same case that is about the illegality of the sig. -- Spiderzed█ 12:13, 2 May 2011 (BST)

It wasn't established as illegal at the time he signed, though. We don't throw out due process just because someone does something we don't like; in fact, we should adhere even more closely to process to avoid personal bias. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:23, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Why the hell would anyone have a personal bias against this guy? He hasn't done anything to anyone here. No one cared what he did, until he decided to post a sig that he knew was controvertial (he was responding to the controversy after all) on the one page that would ensure it would be noticed (and nowhere else, as he proudly proclaimed above).
Counting coup. Meh -- boxy 12:45, 2 May 2011 (BST)

“Personal bias” as in a personally biased viewpoint. It it so hard to ask people to rule by the rules we have rather than making up new ones or citing vague, conveniently unlinked “precedent” and using the sysop badge for intimidation? (I don't think you're guilty of this, but some certainly are.) ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:55, 2 May 2011 (BST)

It's a self evident fact that sigs become worthless when a dozen individuals start signing with exactly the same signature. It is so obvious that no one ever thought it needed fucking spelling out in a specific policy. And so the sysops are given the power to enforce such unwritten (but obvious) rules if they ever come up. It's not personal bias. It's common, fucking, sense.
None of the goons are stupid. They know this. So please, stop already -- boxy 13:18, 2 May 2011 (BST)

In order to prove my lack of personal bias, I've added cases about the others doing the same. No one's gonna say that I'm singling out Underisk. -- Spiderzed█ 13:22, 2 May 2011 (BST)

So we're just ignoring Signature Policy altogether now? Wow, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 13:26, 2 May 2011 (BST)

RE: Boxy:

“	Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.	”
—Albert Einstein

ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 13:26, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I grow tired of your responces (across numerous discussion) to out of context snipets while ignoring the actual meat of the post. Good night, have fun toying with others -- boxy 13:40, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Night, mate; will do! Not far from bed m'self actually. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 13:51, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not vandalism - let's just let these go as long as they weren't used after the case below was finalised -- boxy 12:24, 4 May 2011 (BST)

User:Revenant

• Revenant (talk | contribs | logs | block | IP Check | vndl data | discuss)

Verdict	Incomplete
Action taken	None Yet

For creating this piece of stupid and encouraging people to use it which basically undermines the very principle behind the use of signatures. Policy? God no, for something this obvious all that requires is the sysops team to have the balls to enforce some common sense. This doesn't require much additional discussion. Sharing signatures falls under impersonation, and should hereby be prohibited through precedent. I see little point in escalating the different goons using this sigs for now, though they will be required to change it.

The bad-faith is dripping of this one. Seriously Rev, what the hell are you on? -- Thadeous Oakley Talk 22:36, 1 May 2011 (BST)

Random. Is rev finished with the template yet? I initially thought the green box was going to signify the actual user signing it from the long pink list. If only there was a way of explaining that the current signature was against policy because of impersonation and clarity concerns. Somewhere like here. Oh look vapor just beat me to it. --Rosslessness 23:02, 1 May 2011 (BST)

I thought that too, but I think it's just because Katthew's colour is green.--Yonnua Koponen ^{T G P} ^^^ 23:32, 1 May 2011 (BST)

Explaining that these sigs are illegal is like explaining 1+1=2. They, and especially Rev, should know much better than this. Oh and look what Vapor is getting as reactions, can we even fake a surprised face here? -- Thadeous Oakley Talk 23:38, 1 May 2011 (BST)

I don't really expect much to come of it. So far I've pretty much received the answer I expected to get. ~ _{23:57, 1 May 2011 (UTC)}

Pretty much, but hey drama, if you dont want to deal with it, then you're in the wrong place. I'm sure rev can argue his case here. He's a sensible fellow. --Rosslessness 00:11, 2 May 2011 (BST)

That should be fun. Seems he's claiming ignorance of the law. The WIKI LAW. ~ _{00:25, 2 May 2011 (UTC)}

So is "bad-faith" the new buzzword for things that you don't like but can't find a rule against? Serious question: which Goon ran over your dog/set your cat on fire/raped your sister (select as applicable), because you're awfully mad at us and there's no way a few wiki edits could trigger this kind of reaction. Thadeous hates Goons, can we even fake a surprised face here? --|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sykic (talk • contribs) 00:02, 2 May 2011 (BST).

I'll wait for Rev to explain himself. However, I want to make it clear that using that piece of wikicode shit as sig is absolutely unacceptable. It either gets massively altered, or it is clear-cut escalation material for everyone using it. -- Spiderzed█ 00:20, 2 May 2011 (BST)

^{Non Involved chit chat moved to talk page.}

Vandalism - As thad. I will not be responding to questions, statements or qq about my ruling in this case. My reasoning is as thad's introduction. I have no intention of getting dragged in to the drama involved in this case.--Yonnua Koponen ^{T G P} ^^^ 23:32, 1 May 2011 (BST)

Nice to know how fair, unbiased, and un-prejudiced you really are. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 02:03, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Forgive him for knowing what you're like when a vandalism ruling is imminent. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 03:22, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Don't you start. I know what you're like with ad hominem, personal attacks and poisoning the well. “Boo hoo Revenant actually makes arguments to defend himself and won't take his shafting lying down like a good little user!” ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 03:47, 2 May 2011 (BST)

users that need to deal with it -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 03:53, 2 May 2011 (BST)

See this right here? Yeah, that's why no one is voting for you. If you're unwilling to put forth the effort to work towards a solution for a problem, you probably should not hold any position whatsoever, much less be promoted. --|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 03:33, 2 May 2011 (BST) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Laughing Man (talk • contribs) 03:33, 2 May 2011 (BST).

Why are you putting the person who created the template up for vandalism instead of the ones using it. If I dig up one of your templates and start using it as my signature will you put yourselves up for a vandal banning vote? --|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Underisk (talk • contribs) 00:14, 2 May 2011 (BST).

I too have an issue with the suddenness and unwillingness to believe that this is anything other than vandalism because the person who made it was a goon. Suddenly, it's "bad faith" and "Sharing a signature = impersonation," even though it's got a lot of clever wiki-code that gives each goon a different color and only shows the link to the goon posting at the time. Yes, you could put forth a convincing argument that sharing a signature causes a lot of unnecessary confusion and that the policy should be altered to ban it. That's a fucking stupid idea and I don't see this as anything other than an attempt to de-legitimize a candidate in the current Bureaucrat election. --|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Laughing Man (talk • contribs) 01:12, 2 May 2011 (BST).

Vandalism' - creating a template that can have no other use but to cause confusion as to who posted a comment, and then encouraging others to use it. It violates the whole point of signing to have multiple handles in a signature without any way of making it damn clear which one is the the owner of the comment. And just because there is no specific rule against it, doesn't mean that it's not vandalism to use it. We can't pass policies on every single thing that poster may or may not do, but it is amply covered in our existing policies and precedents -- boxy 01:18, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Ruling changed, see below -- boxy 11:31, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Firstly, let me state for the record that this sig would have been created with or without my involvement. As a responsible member of the community, I have endeavoured to ensure its creation in such a way that it complies with relevant policy and provides minimal load on the server.

Now, let me quote some relevant policy (emphasis mine):

“	Required Link The handle portion of your signature must link to your user page or one of its subpages so that it is easy for readers to learn more about the person behind the signature. Superscript adornments, images and other parts of your signature may link to other locations provided that such links do not violate the rules below. What wouldn't be allowed Signatures which impersonate another user. …	”
—Signature Policy

“	[A] user shall be guilty [of] impersonation if they improperly sign comments to mislead readers into believing that another user posted them, or that they were posted at a different time. A user shall also be guilty of impersonation and bad faith if the user makes an edit that alters, deletes, strikes, re-words or adds to another user's signed comments. Impersonation includes altering another user's words that the editor finds offensive. Impersonation also includes creating a user account with a name so similar to an existing user's name as to create confusion between the two. Impersonation also includes an editor making changes to their own signed statements after posting. Exceptions: Any user may strike votes that are improperly formatted or violate existing rules; any user may add an unsigned comment tag to the end of an unsigned comment; …	”
—Impersonation Law

See also: Hivemind.

Now, then, in your considered opinion, signing with this template constitutes impersonation because…?

Edit: Edit confliiiict! ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 01:28, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Because it is misleading. Simple. I have no idea which goon is signing with it since more than one goon is using it and it isn't unique to any individual. You could also easily argue that its just a bad faith attempt to game the system by finding "loopholes" in the sig policy. Whether it was your idea or just under your guidance doesn't much matter. You created the page along with the instructions for its use so you own it I'm afraid. ~ _{02:09, 2 May 2011 (UTC)}

So, wait… you're telling me you don't routinely view pages (especially admin pages) via history/diffs? Please tell me I'm not the only that does this. I know Boxy knows his way around them – hell, so does Sexualharrison.
The template was created so that issues with Goon signing could be addressed in a standardised manner, since there have been a number of hassles with these. Tell me please, what would be your suggested changes? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 02:41, 2 May 2011 (BST)

What? I don't need to view diffs to see the sig is misleading. The evidence is right in front of my eyes. My suggestions? Stop trying to share a sig. Use a normal sig like everyone else. ~ _{03:13, 2 May 2011 (UTC)}

He means that we can tell who made what comment by viewing the diff comparisons. But that is a red herring. We shouldn't have to search through diff comparisons to tell who said what, and it will become almost impossible to tell who said what in a very short time. Even someone logging in for the first time today just know would find it extremely time consuming to sort it out if I hadn't been inserting unsigned notices. Seriously, it would be extremely simple to fix this sig with just the addition of a variable for the name of the poster being inserted into a spot where it would stand out as the handle portion (ie. a larger coloured section just at the start), while still keeping the ideal of having all goons sigs looking identical. Do that, and encourage any goons using this sig to change over, and I'd consider changing my ruling. But as it is, it remains obvious this template only exists for drama creation purposes -- boxy 03:52, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Hmm. That's a good idea. Might do that. I'll take a look and see what the best method is. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 03:56, 2 May 2011 (BST)

He took what we were going to do anyway, and made it in such a way that it followed the rules currently in place. I'm not sure how I see that implies bad faith on his part. I guess since you are assuming our intention was in bad faith you're unfairly transferring that onto him when he explained pretty clearly that he was attempting to do this in the best way he knew how, which seems like the definition of good faith to me. Maybe if you guys didn't spend so much time pouring over every goon edit looking for bad faith you would find less of it. --|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Underisk (talk • contribs) 02:51, 2 May 2011 (BST).

So does anyone care to define what actual rule this guy broke, or is this just a case of behind-the-scenes asshurt? Because all I'm seeing here is "He made a thing I don't like". Might I suggest deleting the offending signature template? I'm sure there's a WIKI LAW for that.--ебут этом гомосексуальные земля́, ebut ėtom gomoseksual'nye zemlя́ ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||_{Retarded things go here -->} 2 3 4 User:MisterGame 03:09, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I found the idea fascinating and quite clever, but as I looked through more and more of the code I realised how much of a clusterfuck it had been built to make. Had much more useful potential but deliberately giving multiple users a means to mask the the author of a comment between a score of other names is not helpful and can not conceivably be done with good intent. Vandalism. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 03:32, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Part of the reason it's been left that way is because there've been users with links to multiple user pages in their sigs before and nobody seemed to have a problem with it. Unless this really is just because it's Goons doing it? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 03:54, 2 May 2011 (BST)

You create something that only re-establishes goons as hiveminds, declare yourself a freedom fighter for the goons and then complain that you're all being mistreated as goons.c.f

No, I couldn't care less if you all are goons or not. The previous signatures all had handles and were easy to tell who made the post. Even the signature directly above this conversation is easy to navigate and all the instances of the other users is more of an obvious parody than any other, a little bit like izzys sig which confuses me every time but I've never made any effort to have it changed. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 04:01, 2 May 2011 (BST)

So, something more similar to the version I created, say, with the signer's name at the front? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 04:11, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I'm not quite sure which one you mean, but ideally it will have a handle that clearly links to the poster of the comment, preferably looking significantly different than the rest of the coloured part of the sig. I'm not going to make any promises about eligibility until I see one though (you'd have to point to one sig you meant because on the page you specified it looks the same but elongated). -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 04:19, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Sexualharrison's current sig doesn't contain a “handle portion”, per se and nobody's ever had a problem with that.
How about highlighted and bold, would that do? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 04:37, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Because it's rather obvious who's signing it? Because he doesn't have the links to 20 other users in his signature? Cause he has an image that is the focus of the signature that redirects straight to his user page? -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 05:32, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Also, I had hoped you guys would realise that I deliberately did this in the open on UDWiki in order to involve the community. I could have easily built this, tested it, and distributed the code via the forums and you would all have been none the wiser. Instead, once again, because I have made a good faith effort at transparency and openness, I am being harassed via A/VB, mostly by the same old crew.
Seriously disappointed in you guys right now. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 04:45, 2 May 2011 (BST)

lolwhat the only part of udwiki I can't dogpile with meatpuppets to get my way, shock horror! -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 05:32, 2 May 2011 (BST)

“	"meat puppet" first on a satirical list of "common terms used at Wikipedia," giving its supposed Wikipedia meaning as "a person who disagrees with you"	”
—Wikipedia

You stay classy, DDR. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 06:54, 2 May 2011 (BST)

not sure what you're implying since (as I say every time you cite it) that's exactly what you do but ok -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 07:30, 2 May 2011 (BST)

AFAIK, that's the first time I've cited that: links pl0x? While you're at it, link me to the last time I called anyone a meatpuppet? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 08:51, 2 May 2011 (BST)

It may not have been you but a lackey of some sort definitely did when we had this exact same discussion a month ago. And link me to the last time I said you called anyone a meatpuppet? Getting a bit irrelevant here -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 09:57, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Do you ever take a step back from the computer monitor and realize that you're seriously accusing someone of having lackeys? If someone else insults you, maybe it's because you're a colossal passive aggressive piece of human detritus and not because of a conspiracy; I certainly didn't need Revenant's help to come to that conclusion about you. --甘いノーム愛感覚的の私の型板!!! 10:25, 2 May 2011 (BST)

You don't exactly display the characteristics of a long term meatpuppet so I wasn't really talking about you anyway. Not that I find your opinion worrying to my self esteem either ways. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 10:53, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Seriously though that's fine. But you really shouldn't have started off with a template that openly made it practically impossible to tell who the signer is without looking at difs, making each signing tantamount to impersonation (or at least breaking the sig policy). I'm fine with this sig idea as long as in practice, we have no trouble obtaining the poster's username and link to their page off a first glance. And really, I don't know if any of us care that you're disappointed in us. Be disappointed that we're doing our jobs is how I read it. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 05:32, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I'm disappointed none of you know how to assume good faith and use a fucking talk page first like it says at the top of the fucking page, is what I am. Not surprised or shocked, but disappointed. Again.ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 06:54, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I contacted you on your talk page well before this case was brought against you and you deferred me to template talk. I did as you asked (though I felt you were passing the buck at that point) but you instead brought the discussion here. ~ _{07:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)}

You were contacted, and all they got was the predictable responces about sandy vaginas, so please. Are you going to fix it up, or just keep posting here about how hard done by you are? -- boxy 07:04, 2 May 2011 (BST)

That response was not from me. Please learn to check contributions: I hear it's pretty easy. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 08:51, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Wow... just wow. And you still don't see the problem, despite the fact that you would need to point to a buried diff comparison to prove that you didn't make the comment.
Regardless, yes, I figured you didn't make that comment, but fucked if I was going trawling through your talk page history to find out who did. But then, I didn't accuse you of saying it, eh. What was predictable, was that whoever brought up the issue was going to be abused by the "hivemind". And you made no attempt to fix the problem, and still you don't seem to be doing anything about it, despite a number of sysops saying they will reconsider if you did make a fix. But still you have time to keep the drama rolling along.
Fix it next, or my offer expires -- boxy 10:52, 2 May 2011 (BST)

OK, so you've made a start while I was checking and posting. Thank you -- boxy 11:01, 2 May 2011 (BST)

You haven't overtaken Aichon yet in being the physical manifestation of the wiki's conscience, so the boo's and woes about being disappointed is unlikely to make an impact. And in regard to your earlier comments to Yonnua and DDR, stop taking this so personal. No one is out to get you, or goons specifically. It happens to be clear as day that these signatures are illegal as mentioned earlier. Perhaps you should glance over the slight possibility that you are in fact wrong here, instead of blaming others. -- Thadeous Oakley Talk 07:03, 2 May 2011 (BST)

So you think only Aichon has a conscience, and will only listen if he personally tells you he has misgivings? You'd ignore somebody because of who they are, irrespective of if they have a point? Nice admission of bias.
I was responding to Yon's “naa naa I'm not listening” post, TYVM.
If I'm wrong, I ask one simple thing: don't just say it. Prove it.
I am a reasonable man. I would rather be corrected than continue being wrong. But as a man of reason, I require proof. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 08:51, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Don't try to lay words in my mouth I didn't say. I'm not at all biased against you. As for proof, opening your eyes for once. Pretty much every sysops here has in great detail explained why these sigs are illegal. If that isn't enough, you're the last one to accuse Yonnua of "naa I'm not listening" posts, since that's exactly all you have been doing in this case. -- Thadeous Oakley Talk 09:12, 2 May 2011 (BST)

PROTIP: Saying something is “clear” or obvious” does not make it so: you still have to explain your point, even – especially – if it is obvious to you. In fact, as you'll learn in debate club, someone using those words is generally a clear and obvious sign that he does not, in fact, have a valid point. ||||||||||||||| 11:13, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Vandalism I tried talking it out with you Rev but you don't seem to be getting the point. It should be obvious that different users can't use the same signature to sign edits to the wiki. Whatever steps that you've supposedly taken to ensure that people using it aren't breaking a policy have come up short and you seem more engorged on arguing that you've been wronged than you've explained how you are going to fix it. Please take steps to correct the template it will have to be deleted. ~ _{07:27, 2 May 2011 (UTC)}

Soft Warning. It's finally fixed. Don't do it again. -- Spiderzed█ 11:33, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Serves me right for being helpful, eh? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:20, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Serves you right for setting up an illegal sig template, and amending it only once it was clear you'd get escalated for it if it were to stay that way. -- Spiderzed█ 12:23, 2 May 2011 (BST)

It wasn't clearly illegal, and hasn't been shown to be other than “because we say so”. Yay for bowing to peer pressure? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:29, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Every op involved so far but you deemed it vandalism as impersonation/lack of a handle, and I'd have done so too if it hadn't been amended. Clearly, the others must be the ones driving on the wrong traffic lane. -- Spiderzed█ 12:47, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Fixed

There we go. A pretty picture, instructions on how to link to each user's page specifically, and no more horrible template sigs and ugly {{Nosubst}} which is just a horrible hack to get around signature restrictions and IMO should be deleted and banned like it is on all sensible wikis. ||||||||||||||| 11:03, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I love it when a plan comes together. --Rosslessness 11:07, 2 May 2011 (BST)

That's good, as long as it's taken up by everyone using the template. I would have accepted a fair bit more subtlety in the handle portion (just as long as it stood out from the rest). I will change my ruling to not vandalism on the strength of this, and would encourage others to do likewise -- boxy 11:29, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Once those wonderful people have changed to the new version, I'll happily agree. --Rosslessness 11:31, 2 May 2011 (BST)

^{Copyrighted grim chit chat moved to talk page.}

{{Nosubst}} is a hack to get around software restrictions which implement a polcy we don't have on this policy; templated sigs are allowed on this wiki: If you want to get rid off {{Nosubst}} then convince Kevan to change the $wgCleanSignatures to false.

I would actually say that the {{Goonsig}} template shouldn't be substituted as it adds a large amount of messy code to the page.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 11:37, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I tried getting it to work with {{Nosubst}}, hit a snag when I discovered it doesn't pass parameters, fiddled with it briefly, and gave it up as a bad job. If you think can make it work, please, feel free. (Template namespace is community-owned: anyone can edit so long as those edits are a good faith attempt to improve the page.) ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:13, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Also, don't you think the fact that $wgCleanSignatures is true heavily implies that we shouldn't be trying to work around what is a deliberately set limitation? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:18, 2 May 2011 (BST)

It would say that it implies that Wikipedia didn't want people to use templates in signatures: Mediawiki is basically set up under the assumption that everyone works like Wikipedia. The fact that they made turning it off as an option implies that doing so doesn't horribly break anything.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 13:04, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I'll have a look at it: I might be able to get it work (though I suspect it will involve an even uglier hack).--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 13:04, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Not Vandalism - Revenant's now taken steps to stop the problem - it's now on the goons themselves to change their signatures to the new version, the onus is no longer on Rev. Once again, I won't be responding to comments on my ruling.--Yonnua Koponen ^{T G P} ^^^ 11:54, 2 May 2011 (BST)

Did I just hear “open season”? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:04, 2 May 2011 (BST)

not vandalism as yoonua (except I'll happily respond to stuff). -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 12:50, 2 May 2011 (BST)

So if I said “DDR smells funny”? ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:57, 2 May 2011 (BST)

"Haha" or "Woo" ?--Rosslessness 13:01, 2 May 2011 (BST)

I would say it's a hereditary thing and I use fragrances to their fullest. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 16:48, 2 May 2011 (BST)