Suggestion:20080314 YOU BREAK EM DOWN WE BUILD IT UP XP EQUALITY

	Spam!
	This suggestion was voted as spam and closed for voting, with 2 keep, 16 kill, and 8 spam votes.

20080314 YOU BREAK EM DOWN WE BUILD IT UP XP EQUALITY

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tselita (talk • contribs) at 14:55, 14 March 2008 (UTC).

Suggestion Type

XP Improvement

Suggestion scope

Survivors (and freedom and mom and apple pie)

Suggestion description

Okay second time to make a suggestion in 2 days.

Okay, in my last suggestion, some of the things against it were that it's unbalanced in favor of survivors. And I've taken that to heart, yes I have. When there's a buff for one side, there should, in all fairness, be something equal for the other side in order to keep things competitive.

When there's a siege, if a zombie kills a survivor, they get XP.

If a survivor gets a zombie, they get the same amount of XP.

If a zombie ruins a building, they get XP.

If a survivor repairs the building, they get the same amount of XP.

If a zombie breaks down a barracade, they get 1 XP.

If a survivor puts up a barracade..... wait.... they don't get 1 XP.

Why is that? In the spirit of fairness and equality, the survivor who puts up a barracade should get the same XP that a zombie tearing it down should get. In a siege situation, a zombie who keeps on beating at the 'cades can at the very least expect to gain xp from the taking down of cade levels. The survivor trapped inside, trying to keep the zombies from eating his/her tasty brains builds up the barracade, but doesn't get the same xp boost.

My suggestion is simple - in the name of fairness... indeed, in the name of equal rights!... I suggest that any time a survivor puts up a barracade using construction, they get 1 XP, just like the zombie who's breaking it down.

Some caveats to this suggestion: Barracading without having Construction (ie, using a length of pipe) gets no XP. In order to get the 1 XP, you have to -successfully- barracade (ie, get it past the zombies that might be inside already lurching in front of you, finding a place to put it)

I've read in past suggestions that zombies don't tend to really care about the 1 XP they get for tearing down the cades, though it does help newbie zombies have a source of XP, however tiny it may be. Then you shouldn't mind about the survivors getting the equivalent XP for doing the equivalent survivor action. It is, likewise, a source of XP for the survivor who spent their first 100 XP on Construction and is holed up in an office building. I say that from personal experience. It would have been nice to have been holed up, every day using all of my points to try to keep the cades up, and having at least some sort of XP reward to show for the selflessness of protecting the others in there. Not to mention the fairness when I knew that the zombies outside were getting XP whether or not they could get in.

I somehow expect that I'll get spammed or something by zombie players who don't like this idea, despite it being, as far as I can see, the very definition of 'balance' (in several suggestions I've read, they have been spammed because the zombie didn't get the same treatment as the survivor in the suggestion), mainly because it would serve to address something that is currently unfairly un-balanced against survivors... but hey I might be pleasantly surprised.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. KEEP Tselita 15:22, 14 March 2008 (UTC) My suggestion, I get to vote keep.
2. KEEP I honestly thought it was allready +1 XP for survivors cause zombahz get it.--Carnexhat 15:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - because rate of building cades and destroying them isn't equal. p.s. why are you not using talk:suggestions and go with them for voting immedeately? --~~~~ [talk] 15:19, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
   • Re: What -are- the rates of building cades vs destroying them? Above loosely, I mean. -- User:Tselita
     • read here about success chance of building. success chance for destroying from outside is half of claw attack percentage, i.e. 25% for maxed-out zombies. From inside - 0.6, i.e. 30% for maxed-out zombies. --~~~~ [talk] 15:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

   Discussion moved to discussion page. --Funt Solo ^QT 16:04, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

2. Kill The problem is probability. A survivor can put up a loose cade with roughly 100% certainty. The zombie doesn't have that same certainty in attacking it. So this winds up being a survivor buff again. This also might encourage overcading, which is not something to encourage. - Headshot Hal ^Talk 15:21, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
   • Re: The solution to that problem is to not allow 1 XP for loosely, only for cading of lightly and higher. I fail with annoying frequency at even lightly... moreso if the zombies are inside at the time. Also, they are already overcading. And it's a moot point, with how much AP it takes to cade up above vsb++, it's not worth the AP to do so for 1 XP unless you're actually in a siege situation, in which case overcading is needed (which, considering the recent events of the Dead + Big Bash, should be pretty apparent. Many buildings even say 'VSB++ except during siege') I also have a second suggestion about making visible to everyone when someone cades above VSB++ but that's for another day. -- User:Tselita

   Re:Re: Only making it for cades above a certain point (and I would argue VSB or higher) might work, but that is not what this suggestion says. Vetting your suggestions through talk:suggestions might help them be complete before you submit them for voting. - Headshot Hal ^Talk 15:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

   Discussion moved to discussion page. --Funt Solo ^QT 16:04, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

3. Kill - Zombies receive the XP as encouragement to break down the barricades and get to the tasty brainz inside. THe only encouragement survivors need to build barricades is already there: To try and keep their tasty brainz in their heads.--Seventythree^Talk 15:29, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
   • Re: So what you're saying is zombies should get two incentive (brainz + XP) while survivors only get 1 incentive (keeping their brainz). That seems like the very definition of imbalance to me... -- User:Tselita

   • RE Not realy. My zombie character can spend a whole 50 AP smashing away at a VSB building, and only just get in. My survivor can probably barricade 3 buildings up to that level in a day.--Seventythree^Talk 15:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

   Discussion moved to discussion page. --Headshot Hal ^Talk 17:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

   Discussion moved to discussion page. --Funt Solo ^QT 16:04, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

4. Kill - Too many survivors will die due to overcading, it happens enough already you don't need to give an incentive. - Pardus 16:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC) (damn you funt posting just as i was)
   • Re: Please look at the game stats, in the past week and a half, there has been a loss of over 8000 survivor characters. From 18000 to 10000. It's not from overcading, it's from zombies spending all their time knocking on the cades, getting stronger doing it, then finally overwhelming them. And the caders wind up having nothing to show for it. You want a reason for people to overcade? Nothing makes a person overcade like thousands of zombies turning most of the map red, ruining every building, killing every person, and still having a ton of zombies to leave in each suburb while the main horde moves on. But sure, convince yourself that it's because of XP that they'd be overcading, not the 8000 survivors gone in a week and a half. Right. *dripping sarcasm* -- User:Tselita
5. KillJust like how the EXP gain is always 50-50 for zombie survivor right? For example, getting 100% chance 4 exp per scan as lvl 1 Scientist with no fear of getting bitten sounds super balanced.
   • Re: Okay you're clearly someone who's never played a level 1 scientist. 1) If the zombie is brain rotted it can take 5 or more times before you can even ID him. I've spent many a frustrating outing scanning zombies, all of whom have 'already been scanned', including rotters who I have to scan 5 or more times before I find they've already been scanned and that I've wasted all that AP for 0 XP. 2) If they've already been scanned in 24 hours, you get no XP, that's a -horrible- percentage, not anywhere in the neighborhood of 100, or 50. 3) Of course you can get bitten! I get bitten all the time when I'm trying to scan. Heck I've gotten infected all the time when trying to scan, which usually leads to being dead while I'm running away. What game have -you- been playing? -- User:Tselita
6. Kill - As seventythree. --Riseabove 16:32, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
7. Kill - Zombies dont get XP for ransacking/ruining buildings. And what's next ? XP for closing the doors ? --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[cloned] [mod]} 16:41, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
   • Re: My zombie doesn't have ruin yet, but I had assumed they get 1 XP from it. If they don't, they should, again in the name of balance. I know they get 1 XP for destroying generators/radios/decorations/etc. Which survivors don't get for putting it in place. Which they should get XP for, by the way.-- User:Tselita
8. Kill - Make the barricade/de-barricade ratio 1:1, then you can have one XP for building. - W 17:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
9. Kill - You barricade for your own safety, don't do this if you don't want. And as people above said - there are enough overbarricaded entry points. -- 
   •  Nevin McAvoy 
   •  (talk) 
   17:49, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
10. Kill - Easier to build cades than to rip them down, otherwise as above--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 18:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
11. Kill-As above.--Studoku 18:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
12. Kill- It opens farms of XP. You bring a barricade up, gain Xp. You bring a barricade down, gain XP. For ever and ever. This is just not right. --
    Drakon ^Talk\Clan
    18:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
13. Kill Barricading is too easy to award experience for doing it. --Jon Pyre 18:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
14. Kill - As Funt. And please take it to Talk:Suggestions next time. Clearly, you suggestions are not ready to just go straight into voting. --Pdeq^Talk* 18:32, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
15. As all above and below. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:37, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
16. Kill - It'll support overcading, which is bad enough as it is! • DS • ^{Tlk•Dev•W!•+1} 21:52, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - it's not an equal-AP action. Also, it would encourage over-cading, which is bad enough already. --Funt Solo ^QT 16:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
   • Re: I'll be reposting this after vetting to talk suggestions, but there are ways to still discourage over-cading, such as making visible to the room when someone cades above VSB++. -- User:Tselita

   Re - which would be an excuse to PK, and another reason to Spam. --Funt Solo ^QT 22:26, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

2. Spam – Barricading is its own reward. Also, it is far easier to construct barricades than to destroy them, among other tactical/strategic considerations. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 16:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
   • Re: If barricading is its own reward, then breaking the barricades down should be it's own reward as well. -- User:Tselita
3. Spam - 1. Make suggestions not arguments. 2. This is simply game breaking. Survivors have already got plenty of ways to earn XP, a lot more than zombies. -- John Rubin^{T! ZG} 17:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
4. Spam - As Funt Solo and others. You can try rejigging this all you like and complain via 'Re' to every kill or spam vote, it will still be a lousy idea born of a complete lack of understanding of the game mechanics.--The Hierophant 19:30, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
5. Spam - As above. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 19:34, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
6. Spam - Huge survivor buff, game breaking, etc. --Druuuuu ^OcTRR 20:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
7. Spam - Mostly as Funt. --Banana reads Scoundrell for all of Yesterday's News, Today! 20:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
8. Spam' - As Funt. Don't mess the system as it is. -- Cheese 22:28, 14 March 2008 (UTC)