Suggestion:20071213 Remove Super Mega Doors of Steel

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	This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Peer Rejected.

20071213 Remove Super Mega Doors of Steel

Karek^maps?! 02:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion type
Balance Change/Skill Change

Suggestion scope
Zombies

Suggestion description
With barricades in the game the steel Doors have lost their purpose, they are no longer the thing to keep zombies out, for zombies with Memories of Life they are useless, to zombies without they are an impassable and indestructible barrier. "Never better has that been shown than in the case of the LUE horde during their early strikes close to 200 new zombies signed up and attacking at once, but even then they needed experienced players aboard to open the doors for them. 200 zombies who, without someone with MOL, can be denied by the 'Super Mega Doors of Steel' with which every building in Malton apparently comes equipped as standard"^{quoted from Lord Moloch(he inspired the suggestion), he said it best and it's true}

No free ability should be that powerful, 1 AP that can, and has, stopped hordes of 200+ zombies in their tracks.

My suggestion is simple, Remove Doors and Change Memories of Life so that it allows players(human and zombie) with the skill to see the level of barricades(Instead of just Lightly they will see Lightly++, the real barricade level).

• Note: Bolded a section that people keep failing to notice. The MoL change makes it a Crossover skill and as such both survivors and zombies who spend the 100 XP on the skill can see the barricade levels, not just zombies.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Yes I love it! Bobs Aturd 02:13, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
2. Keep buff for baby zombies? HELL YES! --Ropponmatsu 02:16, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
3. Keep This is long overdue. --Braggledorth 02:21, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
4. Keep Couldn't have put it better myself. --The Hierophant 02:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
5. Keep We all love baby zombies, right? --Blobdude^{Talk TM MC} 02:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
6. Keep Sure, why not? --Howard Bentley 03:05, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
7. Keep - Barricades are good enough already. -- John Rubin^{T! ZG} 07:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
8. Keep - Author Vote; 15 AP standing, 2 AP moves, 25% to hit, and inability to damage barricades means that the game will totally become a cake walk for low level zombies.--Karek^maps?! 11:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
9. Keep - Let's face it, no-one in their right mind could seriously think that a door could keep a zombie out. Well, maybe a bank vault door, but it is unrealistic to beleive that a zombie cannot enter a door becuase it can't work the door handle.--Seventythree^Talk 11:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
10. Keep - Because starting the game is hard enough already. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 11:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
11. Change - So instead, it takes 5 AP to "bash down the door" is you don't have MoL. BoboTalkClown 11:44, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
12. Change I think that there should still be the skill to open doors, but there should be different types of doors too. Like ones that can be broke, so they would be barricades that could be destroyed and repaired, ro simply passed by being opened. KeroroCanti 15:47, December 13 2007
13. Keep One more nonsensical part of the game done away with. --Nikitis 22:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
14. Keep - as above. --Pavluk ^{A! E!} 23:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
15. Keep/Change - Oh all right. I don't like it... you would have to give something back to the survivors. Doors should still have a use, but should not be this useful.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

    Re - The MoL change works for survivors too.--Karek^maps?! 15:06, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

    O. I dono how I managed to miss that... --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

16. Keep/Change - It seems a little strange to me that every warehouse, junkyard and power station in Malton has been wire-cut open, but at the same time every single door is still intact. Maybe change it to a durability meter that takes a hit every time a zed with MoL opens it (to indicate minor damage at the door being thrown open by an undead monster), but can be repaired by survivors with construction. If the durability meter had an appropriately small max it could serve the purpose of heightened realism and a buff for the Construction skill at the same time. --Mister Nathan Marbles 02:22, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
17. Iffy Keep - -- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 02:31, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
18. keep sounds ight--Thekooks 15:59, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
19. Keep Doors, as they are, paired with MOL, are stupid. They need to be fixed or removed. This is a good way of doing so while giving Memories of Life a new use. - Grant 09:58, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - Because super mega doors of steel cannot be removed by a mere suggestion, they are all powerful! also, I wouldn't like it--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 02:51, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
2. Kill - As Above --Anti Gorefest5^TMW!B! 05:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
3. Kill - What's next? Giving everybody free running just because it's too hard to earn? Besides, I'm not all that sympathetic to a group of 200 zombies created overnight specifically for the purpose of attacking one or two targets. Level up your characters the old fashioned way or hang out with more experienced zombies, even feral ones if yo need to. --Uncle Bill 06:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   Doors are one of the major reasons Zking is the only reliable way to gain experience before level 8. Seems a bit absurd to say that's not absurd.--Karek^maps?! 11:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   Kill - While Super Mega Doors of Steel are somewhat annoying, I don't believe removing doors completely is the right solution. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 07:36, 13 December 2007 (UTC) Changed my vote. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 11:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

4. Kill - The one in peer reviewed is a lot better. --Pdeq 11:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
5. Kill - I liked it when survivors had to cut holes in the fences at junkyards, and I like the ability to close doors now. -- Rutherford 14:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
6. Kill I actually just started leveling up a zombie from scratch, swearing to not earn any XP as a survivor or use ZKing to advance. It's taken me a week or two but I was able to get MoL as my second skill, right after Death Grip. Now there isn't anything wrong with removing doors, but you'd need to give survivors the ability to barricade without Construction for that to be fair. I mean, if zombies can enter buildings without a skill then it shouldn't require a skill to barricade up to...say, the highest level of lightly. That might hurt zombies overall more than help. --Jon Pyre 14:30, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   Survivors do have the ability to barricade without Construction. --Karek^maps?! 15:45, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   Re As a one use item that creates a single loose level of barricades. That's hardly a real defense, it's more of a flavor item. If newbie zombies can open doors then newbie survivors need something to compensate. --Jon Pyre 16:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

7. I'm gonna hav to shoot to kill on this one. The door-closing is a nice little feature that allows you at least a minimal modicum of safety, and helps ensure you don't get killed by UndeadTrenchNeo33271. --Boris 15:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
8. Change - Say, why not let baby zombies be able to Attempt Opening the Door, and give them a 5-10% chance of succeeding without MoL on their side? That way, it would make them less deadly if say there were only a couple of zombies pursuing you, but no freshly-raised horde could be kept out. –Ariedartin ^Talk 16:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
9. killy - as sympathetic as i am to the reasoning behind this, i agree with the many of the comments above, at least in principle. thing is, there are other ways to gain experience... hunt in the street, for example. and closing doors is a useful survivor tactic... meanwhile, i do NOT like that little clause at the end which lets you see exact barricade levels... fog of war and all... and if zombies can see that, survivors should be able to, as well... but that would be a big buff to barricades, all said and done, allowing a survivor to see exact levels, so ix-nay on that... --WanYao 16:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
10. Kill - No thank you. -J. A. 16:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
11. Change - I see where this is coming from, and don't necessarily like it - but it maybe one of those necessary evils. Maybe something like Bobo suggested, though there is already an AP imbalance as is - so that may not work. I'll think up some suggestions if I can today --Ryiis 16:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

    Re- Actually, I do say in the suggestion that MoL would allow both survivors and zombies with the skill to see barricade levels, not just zombies. In principle the only other way to gain experience is to attack zombies, survivors sleeping outside is rare enough to be inconsequential. --Karek^maps?! 17:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

12. Kill - It's not terribly difficult to get Memories of Life. --Z. slay3r •  Talk  17:02, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

    Re - If everyone has it than it's a pointless skill. If they don't have it doors are impassable. Ignoring that they still have to get around barricades which have horrible fall rates, especially for unskilled zombies.--Karek^maps?! 17:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

    Re - I see your point, but there is almost always a zombie in the crowd that has MoL. --Z. slay3r •  Talk  21:45, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

13. Kill - Fine as it is... --/~WOOT~\ 18:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
14. Kill/Change - Removing doors would be a stupid action to do. Perhaps allowing zombies without memories of life to bash down doors somehow would be more appropriate, AND EVEN THEN!! it would put zombies at a very serious advantage over humans. Rena Ryugu 23:08, 13th of December of 2007 (GMT+1)

    Re- Hmm, advantage you say? --Karek^maps?! 15:06, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

15. I'm not keen on how this reveals the exact barricade level. Uncertainty on some levels adds to the game. MoL and doors DO need revising (or simple elimination, maybe with a skill replacing MoL) but this suggestion doesn't do the job right, IMO.  Swiers 22:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
16. Kill - The idea behind it seems to be low level zombies are not going to be bashing down barricades. If they are not bashing down 'cades then they do not need to be able to open doors. Doors also protect low level survivors from low level zombies. They still serve that purpose. Inky 02:40, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
17. Kill - the arguments provided here are not convincing me at all. From my beginnings in the UD playing I understood the flavour meaning of closed doors, and considered obtaining Memories of Life one of the natural evolution of zombie - which can barely walk at all from the beginning of it's undead life, but even the rotted brain of theirs has some capability to gather experience and turn into more efficient killer. It's also corresponding with the way, in which the genre of zombie stories evolve over the decades of telling them.--James beckerson 11:52, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam/Dupe - Because closed doors have shown time and time again to be a minimal blockade against massive zombie hordes, and your example is a rarity at best. Also, I know that someone has suggested this before, but in the form of "Remove doors". --Private Mark 03:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   The MoL change is a unique aspect which makes it not a dupe. And as for doors, because of game mechanics MoL is a higher level skill, others like Ankle Grab, Lurching Gait, Rend Flesh, and Vigour Mortis are all far more important, often because of the requirement of Zking bite skills are taken first, so as such MoL is expected to fall between the levels of 6 and 8, more than half the zombies in the game fall under that line. It's a very big issue to low level zombies and the change benefits them. As for deterrents, you have barricades, that's exactly what they are for.--Karek^maps?! 03:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

2. Supe - This has been suggested before, hasn't it... anyway, not every building in Malton comes equipped with these super strong doors. If your zombie group needs to get their experience up to a point where they can get memories of life, they should concentrate on junkyards and churches. These buildings have no doors, and as soon as the barricades come down, they are wide open for everyone -- boxy ^{talk • i} 03:40 13 December 2007 (BST)
3. Spam As above. Plus, level one survivors can't build barricades. They should at least be able to close the damn door. --Ms.Panes 05:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   Re: - The pipes change means that yes, they actually can.--Karek^maps?! 11:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   A VERY pathetic one, *if* they happen to have spent a billion AP finding lengths of pipe. It's more flavorful than offering real protection. My opinion stands. --Ms.Panes 15:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

4. Spam|Dupe - As above. Also Seb made an excellent suggestion to re-vamp door system once, while just removing doors is plain stupid --~~~~ [talk] 07:51, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
5. Dupe/Spam - same idea, except the dupe in Peer Reviewed is much, much better. Looks like some thought went into it. --Funt Solo ^QT 09:17, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   Re: - The only thing even similar is that both suggestions affect Doors.--Karek^maps?! 11:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   Re - both suggestions remove the potential problem of a door stopping a horde. The one in PR is balanced, by introducing a commensurate cost, whereas yours is a big dumb sledgehammer with drool and spittle all over it. But, the aim, and the result, are the same. In any case, it's Spam. Now, remember, it's one Re only, so now you have to shut the fuck up. You have no idea how glad that makes me after all the trolling you've put me through recently. --Funt Solo ^QT 11:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   Further discussion on the talkpage. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 12:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

   Spam How many advantages do you want to give the zombie hordes. -- Cheveyo 15:03, 13 December 2007 (UTC) Improperly signed. --Z. slay3r •  Talk  17:02, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

6. Dupe- As above. --Darth Lumis^{T! A! E! SR}
7. Spam - Not quite close enough to be called a dupe, however the 'dupe' is a much better version. This solution treats it as a serious problem, when it is not. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 07:35, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
8. Spam - This is on par with MrAushvitz's work. --Cyberbob ^{DORIS CGR U!} 16:06, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
9. This will pretty much be the 5th or 6th dupe vote. Can we remove this already? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 21:17, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
10. Dupe- As above --Downinflames 18:57, 24 December 2007 (UTC)