Suggestion:20080621 Survivor XP, Zombie XP, and Grandfathered XP

	Spam!
	This suggestion was voted as spam and closed for voting, with 9 keep, 13 kill, and 12 spam votes.

20080621 Survivor XP, Zombie XP, and Grandfathered XP

Fred Fredfredson 17:10, 21 June 2008 (BST)

Suggestion type
XP/Skill modification.

Suggestion scope
Purchasing experience points with skills.

Suggestion description

Background: Currently, experience points gained as a zombie can be used just as well for survivor skills as they can for zombie skills, and those gained as a survivor can be used just as well for zombie skills as they can for survivor skills. I think that it would make more sense, for zombie-gained XP to be more easily used for zombie skills, and survivor-gained XP to be more easily gained for survivor skills, while still keeping the ability for both types of XP to be used for both types of skills.

To accomplish this, I suggest replacing the current "XP" with three (not two) subtypes of XP: "Zombie XP", "Survivor XP", and "Grandfathered XP", a.k.a. ZXP, SXP, and GXP.

Zombie XP can be used with no penalty to purchase zombie skills, and at a 50% penalty to purchase survivor skills (e.g. it would take 200 ZXP to purchase a 100 point survivor skill).

Survivor XP similarly: No penalty to purchase survivor skills, and a 50% penalty to purchase zombie skills.

Grandfathered XP is a special case: No penalty for purchasing any skill. Existing experience points that we have already gained (before this change) would be automatically converted to GXP, so that no one is screwed with respect to XP that they've already gained before this change. No one would ever gain any GXP except for that onetime rollover (when this change is implemented).

To purchase a skill, you would not choose which type (or types) of XP you wish to use. Instead, the game would automatically deduct from GXP first, then the appropriate one of ZXP or SXP, then from the penalized one of ZXP or SXP.

The game would explicitly show you how much of which type or types you would have to use in order to purchase the skill.

Example: Joe has 40 GXP, 43 SXP, and 37 ZXP, and is currently a survivor. He wishes to purchase a 100 point survivor skill. This will cost him 40 GXP, 43 SXP, and 34 ZXP, i.e. 40 points + 43 points + 17 points, leaving him with 0 GXP, 0 SXP, and 3 ZXP.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep - Author vote. - Fred Fredfredson 17:11, 21 June 2008 (BST)
2. Tentative keep - Unless someone points out a serious flaw, I think it is a good idea--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 17:28, 21 June 2008 (BST)
3. Keep - I like ending the exp bank. gabdewulf 17:30, 21 June 2008 (BST)
4. Keep - I like this. -- Cheese 17:34, 21 June 2008 (BST)
5. Keep - It doesn't discourage real dual nature behavior, just discourages start-as-a-cop-and-go-zombie or start-zergs-as-zombies tactics. I like it - it's quite realistic and makes the game a bit more challenging... and bah - apparently some voters need to finally read rules about spam -- 
   •  Nevin McAvoy 
   •  (talk) 
   17:48, 21 June 2008 (BST)
6. Keep - I bought all of my survivor skills with XP earned as a zombie. That makes no sense. --Heretic144 19:42, 21 June 2008 (BST)
7. Keep - Perfectly reasonable suggestion is being thrown down the gutter by the spam noobs, I say keep. --Pvt human 04:26, 22 June 2008 (BST)
8. Keep - if only to encourage an update to UDToolbar for 'Fir3fox'. I also love the idea of tri-XP. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 11:18, 22 June 2008 (BST)
9. Keep - discourages dual-nature. --Pgunn 12:47, 22 June 2008 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - I agree in principle with penalising dual nature play, but the proposed system is too complicated. --Explodey 17:39, 21 June 2008 (BST)
2. Kill - Spam isn't a kill, you fucks. This suggestion only really benefits people who don't play Urban Dead. Everyone uses XP this way. I mean, hell. I purchased all my zombie skills at the same time when I was playing a survivor. Don't break mechanics for the sake of your own ideas. --Vandurn 17:43, 21 June 2008 (BST)
3. Kill - Others. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 17:51, 21 June 2008 (BST)
4. Kill - I understand your reasoning, but the ability to purchase needed skills immediately after death or revival is too beneficial to players to mess with. For Urban Dead to remain viable and fun it must maintain an active population of zombie players; anything that makes a converted survivor even slightly less likely to actually play as a zombie must be discouraged.--Jiangyingzi 18:13, 21 June 2008 (BST)

   kill - --Minigun4523 19:50, 21 June 2008 (BST) Unjustified vote struck. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 20:10, 21 June 2008 (BST)

5. Kill - This seems utterly pointless and meaningless, and just an attempt to get a suggestion into the box. I find extra EXP ideas utter crap. Please leave the current system alone. (And as Aeon). -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 20:23, 21 June 2008 (BST)
6. Kill - Don't "fix" what ain't broke. --Officer Dick Trickle 22:18, 21 June 2008 (BST)
7. Kill - Wholly unnecessary. --Zombie in Pajamas 22:23, 21 June 2008 (BST)
8. Kill - As Zombie in Pajamas.--Jamie Cantwel3 ^TalkAll glory to the Hypnotoad! 03:30, 22 June 2008 (BST)
9. Kill - Don't fix what isn't broke. --Trav 04:22, 22 June 2008 (BST)
10. I understand the desire, but not the implementation. Convert zombies have it harder than any other characters, so the ability to buy one or two essential skills to be the equivalent of a level 1 corpse is necessary. Why do you think one of the reasons there are so many Mrh?-Cows? If a zombie is a career zombie, they aren't going to bother with more than NT Employement, Body Building and, maybe, Diagnosis. So this won't really affect them. But the biggest problem is this is over complicated.--Pesatyel 08:58, 22 June 2008 (BST)
11. Kill It discourages dual nature, And screws up those people who are killed in monroeville even more. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:33, 22 June 2008 (BST)
12. kill - i can see where you are coming from, but yet i still vote to kill it --Scotw 14:12, 22 June 2008 (BST)
13. Kill As Grim said, this would discourage survivors from playing as zombies. But mainly the xp gain part of Urban Dead is not that important. A month or two goes by and then you have every skill and xp becomes completely meaningless. There's no point in changing everything when it won't matter in the long run. Don't think this suggestion deserves all the spam votes though. Generally my rule for spam votes is that if it requires a voter to point out why it wouldn't work it isn't spam, because then it has enough merit that its flaws aren't immediately apparent to everyone. --Jon Pyre 14:25, 22 June 2008 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Discourages Dual Nature behaviour. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 17:15, 21 June 2008 (BST)

   I don't really agree that that's true, but I also would like to point out the flip side: It encourages people who want to play dual nature to actually learn to play dual nature, instead of rewarding them right off the bat with new skills for the XP they saved up before dying or undying. Finally, I just want to say that I frankly think that you are abusing "Spam" here. Your reasoning seems to back a "Kill" vote, not a "Spam" vote. Please consider not abusing "Spam". Thank you. - Fred Fredfredson 17:18, 21 June 2008 (BST)

   The fact that you disagree with me does not mean that I do not find this utterly ridiculous. Please consider not accusing others of abusing Spam. Thank you. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 17:43, 21 June 2008 (BST)

2. Spam - Pointless and needlessly complicates the EXP system. It's also incomplete; Which EXP points will get consumed first? The current EXP system works fine as it is. --Aeon17x 17:31, 21 June 2008 (BST)

   It is NOT incomplete, at least not in the manner that you describe. It explicitly includes not only a description of which get consumed first, but an example thereof. Is it too much to ask that you read what you are voting on, especially if you're going to vote "spam"? - Fred Fredfredson 17:40, 21 June 2008 (BST)

   Your suggestion may not be incomplete (my bad, sorry about that)... but it's still a spam for me. As far as the players are concerned, you really are just making the XP system more complex to the point that they have to plan their skills with a calculator instead of just counting in multiples of 75s, 100s, and 150s.
   

   If I were you, I'd listen to the spam comments regarding dual nature play. When a survivor dies, they shouldn't be penalized for trying to play as a zombie just because he was originally a survivor, and vice versa. --Aeon17x 18:14, 21 June 2008 (BST)

3. Spam - Actively discourages slain survivors to play as zombies by forcing them to start off as a level 0 zombie. There is nothing more painful than playing a level 0 zombie. This would only serve to further exacerbate the current problem with regards to the relative sizes of the two populations. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 17:39, 21 June 2008 (BST)

   "Spam votes are not a "strong kill", they are simply here to prevent the utterly ridiculous from clogging up the system. If you do not like the idea, and it's not some crazy uber power or something else ridiculous, VOTE KILL, NOT SPAM." - Fred Fredfredson 17:41, 21 June 2008 (BST)

   My spam vote is perfectly valid. This breaks the game further by making it much more difficult to change sides if they felt like it. It becomes simpler to simply create a new character than it is to change sides. Hence my quite reasonable explaination. No one likes getting spam votes, but seriously, pull your head out of your arse. Its game breakingly bad. The brokenness just isnt obvious at first glance, much like metal fatigue isnt immediately evident on a jet engine. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 17:50, 21 June 2008 (BST)

4. Spam - This suggestion is utterly ridiculous. Sigh. --Jasonjason 18:06, 21 June 2008 (BST)
5. Spam - As above, but mostly Midianian and grim. This suggestion is ridiculous and unsalvagable. Also, spam because the author does not seem to grasp the concept of a spam vote.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  18:29, 21 June 2008 (BST)
6. Spam - as Grim. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 22:25, 21 June 2008 (BST)
7. Spam - Can I say "as Grim" as well? It's a pointless suggestion that complicates an area which doesn't need complicating - If it ain't broke, don't fix it.--drawde ^{DORIS•RR•RRF•RI!} 11:17, 22 June 2008 (BST)
8. Spam - There is nothing wrong with the current XP system except for the fact that zombies only have 1 way to earn it (hitting things). This doesn't add anything to the game. --– Nubis ^NWO 13:21, 22 June 2008 (BST)
9. Spam - Fuck, no. Dual Nature play is THE WAY this game, in a perfect world, ought to be played. It's absurd for braineaters to line up at cemeteries and stand around docile and going mrh? same for revived zombies jumping from buildings or standing outside to get killed: except in the case of the minority of truly insane and/or "ideological" sympathisers... The game would be soooo much more interesting if all survivors played as zombies upon death, and vice versa. And you wanna nerf Dual Nature? No chance. Meanwhile, there are several crossover skills that are VERY important, no matter what side you choose for your alt to play. Particularly Lurching Gait/Ankle Grab and BodyBuilding/Diagnosis/Lab Assistant. You screw newbs on all sides of the fence with this. Once again, a resounding NO on all counts. --WanYao 14:01, 22 June 2008 (BST)

   And before you comment my vote and tell me I'm abusing Spam voting... First off, it's VERY bad form to fight with every person who votes against your suggestion. I understand... but... still... bad form. And, my "resounding NO on all counts" = goes against spirit of the game AND is game-breaking, as per Grim. Ergo, spam. --WanYao 14:08, 22 June 2008 (BST)

10. I know I've seen another suggestion just like this, but I doubt it's a perfect dupe, so...As the above. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 14:53, 22 June 2008 (BST)
11. Spam - The only thing more painful than playing a level 0 survivor is a level 0 zombie. Level 0 zombies can't hit anything, and survivors have to wait in the streets trying to get out of the high zombie suburb they were revived in. Also, discourages dual-natured playstyle. --Atticus 15:33, 22 June 2008 (BST)
12. Spam - Doesn't pass the "Would this be a game I'd want to keep playing" test.--Karek^maps?! 15:37, 22 June 2008 (BST)

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