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Developing Suggestions

This page is for presenting and discussing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Further Discussion

Discussion concerning this page takes place here. Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general (including policies about it) takes place here.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Please Read Before Posting

Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. There you can read about many idea's that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe, or a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles. There users can also get a handle of what an appropriate suggestion looks like.
Users should be aware that this is a talk page, where other users are free to use their own point of view, and are not required to be neutral. While voting is based off of the merit of the suggestion, opinions are freely allowed here.
It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
With the advent of new game updates, users are requested to allow some time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Format for Suggestions under development

Please use this template for discussion. Copy all the code in the box below, click [edit] to the right of the header "Suggestions", paste the copied text above the other suggestions, and replace the text shown here in red with the details of your suggestion.

===Suggestion===
{{suggestionNew
|suggest_time=~~~~
|suggest_type=Skill, balance change, improvement, etc.
|suggest_scope=Who or what it applies to.
|suggest_description=Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.
|discussion=|}}
====Discussion (Suggestion Name)====
----

Cycling Suggestions

Developing suggestions that appear to have been abandoned (i.e. two days or longer without any new edits) will be given a warning for deletion. If there are no new edits it will be deleted seven days following the last edit.

This page is prone to breaking when there are too many templates or the page is too long, so sometimes a suggestion still under strong discussion will be moved to the Overflow-page, where the discussion can continue between interested parties.

The following suggestions are currently on the Overflow page: No suggestions are currently in overflow.

If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the deletion warning template please remove the {{SNRV|X}} at the top of the discussion section. This will show that there is active conversation again.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list.

Suggestions

Sniper Rifle

Timestamp:	Maynard King 10:40 PM, 23rd April 2009 (GMT +7)
Type:	Improvement
Scope:	Weapons and Skills
Description:	My suggestion is to add a Sniper Rifle to Urban Dead. Sniper Rifle can be shot from far distance, ex. when I am in 26, 26, I can shoot to the people or zombies around the area of 26, 26, like 27, 27; 26, 27; 27, 26; etc. It has very high accuracy, especially with the Sniper's skills. It will do 7 damage to it's target. Sniper Rifle is very heavy to carry (about 15%), but has many advantages. The Sniper Rifle can only be found in the Fortress' Armory, like Fort Creedy's Armory. The Sniper Rifle's ammo can be found in the Fortress' Armory, in all malls, and in all Police Departments. The ammo can stack up to 10 ammo in a Sniper Rifle. I've got 2 new skills for the Sniper Rifle : - Sniper Rifle Training (An extra 25% to hit with Sniper Rifle.) - Advance Sniper Rifle Training (An extra 20% to hit.) The Urban Dead will become even more interesting with more weapons and skills. ^-^

Discussion (Sniper Rifle)

As a counter zombies should totally be able to vomit for 3 HP damage + infection from the same distance away with the same accuracy. Actually, better make that 7 damage just in case. --Johnny Bass 17:21, 23 April 2009 (BST)

Hmm, you got a good point there, sir Johnny Bass. Thank you for your opinion. I've updated it to 7 in damage. But the accuracy will still the same since a Sniper Rifle has a very high accuracy and damage. --Maynard King 11:29 PM, 23rd April 2009 (GMT +7)

It was sarcasm, tbh. It's generally not a good idea to have distance weapons in the game. New weapons would normally fall into 2 categories - overpowered or useless and diluting search rates. There's some guides on the suggestions portal that I'd recommend reading, but can't find the links right now. --Johnny Bass 17:35, 23 April 2009 (BST)

This, perchance? --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 17:44, 23 April 2009 (BST)

Thank you for the link, sir Bob Boberton. This suggestion is closed. Sorry to make such bad suggestion. It's my first, though. --Maynard King 11:59 PM, 23rd April 2009 (GMT +7)

Everyone makes a bad one from time to time, no need to apologize for trying to put forth more ideas for the game. --Johnny Bass 21:00, 23 April 2009 (BST)

Limited Emote

Timestamp:	Necrofeelinya 14:47, 22 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Flava flave, baby.
Scope:	Characters
Description:	Players could opt to take actions which are not currently provided for in the game at a normal cost of 1 AP. Actions would interact with another player in the same room, and would include poking, shoving, slapping, hi-fiving, winking at, applauding, laughing at, and snickering at. The action would have a dropdown menu to choose the target, as well as one to choose the action taken. For example, if a person were to choose to target a player with slapping, the player they target would receive a message saying "(player) slaps you". Zombies would be limited in this ability to slaps and possibly shoves... they need a way to show anger and contempt, but not much else during their killing sprees.

Discussion (Limited Emote)

I think this is a dupe... I'm on my phone now so I can't check myself. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 16:00, 22 April 2009 (BST)

There's already the option to attack with a newspaper (base 100% accurate, 0 damage) which pretty much allows slapping (if you have a newspaper). Zombiews can gesture and everybody can talk (to variable degrees). Not saying I dislike the idea, just that its maybe a fidly bit of gilding the lily for something that would have zero game impact.
Actually, the one thing I could see that MIGHT be worth adding (since it would have game impact) is allowing survivors to gesture just like zombies do. When a zombie gestures at another zombie, all people present get a link to that zombies profile; if survivors could gesture at individual zombies, they could better co-ordinate attacks against them. Its already possible to just "say" the zombies profile link, so there's no anonymity nerf- it just allows the same thin in a more flavorful fashion.
If survivor gestures were being implemented, perhaps ALL "gesture" actions could be changed to allow not only a choosen target, but also a choice of adverb. For example, selecting "joe" and "kind" would result in "player makes a kind gesture towards joe". Obvious options would be rude gestures, kind gestures, welcoming gestures, pointing gesture, etc. Both survivors and zombies would be able to do this (zombies requiring the flailing gesture skill, but they would likely have different adverb selections. Swiers 18:47, 22 April 2009 (BST)

Well, we have Emotes in Peer Review.--Pesatyel 03:51, 23 April 2009 (BST)

Oooh, nice. Didn't catch that one. That's pretty much it then, it's dupetastic.--Necrofeelinya 13:16, 23 April 2009 (BST)

Whisper

Timestamp:	Necrofeelinya 10:53, 22 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	improvement
Scope:	Humans
Description:	Would allow for limited in-game stealth communications by survivors in the same room. Basically, survivors would be able to target the person they speak to, and only that individual would be able to hear what they say distinctly. Other players in the room would get a message saying "(player) whispers something to (player)" instead of being able to hear the comment as usual. This way they'd know something was said, they just wouldn't know what. The person being targeted with the message would hear "(player) whispers (normal message)", so they know that the message was whispered to them directly and that nobody else heard it. To target the message, you'd use a dropdown box just like the attack targeting box, but it would be attached to the speech text box or have its own text box. The hope is that by promoting in-game communications this way, metagaming could be reduced. Players wouldn't have to go to other forums to spread messages among their fellow players discreetly and selectively, though some would obviously still choose to do so for convenience's sake, to save on AP and organize from separate locations.

Discussion (Whisper)

I'll say right now it's similar to Different Speech Types, but without the "shout" option, and many of the votes on that one, which went to undecided, suggested reposting just as whisper anyway. I didn't see the repost if it occurred.--Necrofeelinya 11:17, 22 April 2009 (BST)

Well there is Communication in Peer Review. There is also Texting in Peer Review which is similar (but requires a phone which isn't that bad).--Pesatyel 04:01, 23 April 2009 (BST)

Dupe numba 2! That's two dupes in a row for me!--Necrofeelinya 13:18, 23 April 2009 (BST)

Shrieking Demise

Timestamp:	Necrofeelinya 23:30, 21 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	improvement, flavor
Scope:	Characters
Description:	"Shrieking Demise" would cause players to emit an audible death cry heard for a 6 block radius (like feeding groan) upon their deaths. The ability would have a toggle to allow the player to turn it on or off. A list of random messages which could emerge upon a character's demise follows: "A piercing wail shatters the silence from _ blocks to the _ and _ blocks to the _, then is abruptly cut short." "You hear an agonized cry from _ blocks to the _ and _ blocks to the _, then silence." "An ear splitting shriek is heard from _ blocks to the _ and _ blocks to the _." "A desperate cry of anguish emerges from _ blocks to the _ and _ blocks to the _ before fading in choking gasps." "The tortured cries of a hapless survivor rise from _ blocks to the _ and _ blocks to the _ before being brutally silenced." "Screaming pleas for mercy emerge from _ blocks to the _ and _ blocks to the _, quickly trailing off in agonized sobs." The message heard in the same room or square as the victim dies in would also be variable, something like "Your victim emits a horrified wail as you sink your teeth into their flesh" for zombies, or "(player) emits an agonized cry as a zombie drags them down". Zombies with this skill toggled on would emit a low moan or similar sound audible within their immediate square whenever they get beaten down by a survivor.

Discussion (Shrieking Demise)

Sounds like free feeding groans (free is bad, m'kay) and will probably spam up everywhere. A lot. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 23:33, 21 April 2009 (BST)

It would only happen when someone (human) dies, so I doubt the spam factor would be a serious issue, and it would be a toggle which players could turn on or off at will, though I see your point about free feeding groans. Still, the only ones who would deliberately use it that way would be pro-zombie humans, who probably prefer playing as zombies anyway. I can see how it might be used in coordination with parachuting, but that wouldn't serve any more purpose than letting zombies outside know you'd parachuted in. Could conceivably be used to coordinate an assault in-game now that I think about it, but assaults can be coordinated a lot of ways.--Necrofeelinya 23:42, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Free is not always bad but i think this is too much. Perhaps the screams radius could be based on the number who die in the location? for instance 1 death = current block only while 3 since your last loggin would echo for 3 blocks, obviously a maximum range should apply.--Honestmistake 00:33, 22 April 2009 (BST)

Why would a zombie be able to groan louder than a human can scream? And do you mean a single scream message for every person who died within a certain distance, regardless of direction, or one for every person who died in a particular location within earshot since you last logged in? That seems awkward. Besides, how would you toggle it off then? Just a toggle for whether you hear other people's screams rather than to shut off your own?--Necrofeelinya 00:47, 22 April 2009 (BST)

The zombie is throwing their head back and yelling in exultation at the coming meal while the survivor has a few stone of stinking dead flesh tearing its throat out and trying to eat its brain! --Honestmistake 00:54, 22 April 2009 (BST)

I'm trying to replicate more of a Jamie Lee Curtis "Oh shit, I'm doomed" kind of scream here, not a weak, expiring gasp. Besides, what about the other questions?--Necrofeelinya 13:31, 22 April 2009 (BST)

I mean that at best it should be based upon location and a message should read something like "over the last several hours you have heard dying screams echoing from.... (list of directions/locations)" with the screams you have heard being listed from oldest to newest. It would really only be for flavour anyway as most breakins with a large enough body count for this to be heard are signaled by groans anyway. As for toggling... I would suggest only allowing it to be toggled by the hearer (like groan, radios and flares) --Honestmistake 13:48, 22 April 2009 (BST)

This is a dupe. I'll see if I can find it. Plus the "examples" are a little confusing.--Pesatyel 05:23, 22 April 2009 (BST)

If it's a dupe, it's a dupe, but I don't know what's confusing about the examples. Just replace the underscores with either a number or a direction, thus "An ear splitting shriek is heard from _ blocks to the _ and _ blocks to the _." would become something like "An ear splitting shriek is heard from 6 blocks to the east and 2 blocks to the north.", just like feeding groan. I figured the format would be recognizable.--Necrofeelinya 10:35, 22 April 2009 (BST)

Oh, and I did take it directly from my own humorous suggestion, Harman, after thinking it might have actual merit on its own.--Necrofeelinya 11:40, 22 April 2009 (BST)

I don't see the point of this. Who would care about these shrieks? Survivors won't hear them- they are inside. Zombies won't care because they do NOT indicate a source of food. In fact, they indicate a decrease in available food. Groans are good for zombies to follow (especially if loud) because they mean zombies and survivors present in the same place, which (especially with zombie cade blocking) means there are likely no barricades. These shreiks could mean anything- a PKer in a mall, somebody dying of infection all alone, a zombie killing a lonely bit of street meat or suicide reviver, etc. They mean nothing, and so would just be ambient noise that would SEEM meaningful to newbie zombie players, but waste their AP to investigate. Any source that IS worth investigating would have feeding groans coming from it.
If anything, this would at least need an option for people to ignore all the shrieks to pass. And most people (zombies in particular) would activate that option, I suspect. Swiers 19:02, 22 April 2009 (BST)

I for one would not ignore them... first I like the idea of hearing harmans die. Second if done in a way similar to my suggestion it could help decide which of several feeding groans to follow as the one with the latest screams also has a greater chance of still being open (recent kill = recently active zombie) Of course this should not effect survivor on survivor kills unless the flavour text changed to indicate dies screaming in a hail of bullets! --Honestmistake 19:25, 22 April 2009 (BST)

I did find a very similar suggestion in Peer Reviewed: Grisly Demise. You might check it out for similarities and/or differences. I do like this idea or some other direction or development of it. --Winton 01:31, 23 April 2009 (BST)

That's dupe numba 3!!! Three dupes in a row and I am outta here! Time to quit suggesting until I can come up with something actually original. This may take a while.--Necrofeelinya 13:22, 23 April 2009 (BST)

Uberly Heavily Barricaded

Timestamp:	ShadowScope^{'the true enemy'} 18:05, 21 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Skill
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	A new skill is introduced: "Improved Construction" under "Construction". Improved Construction allows humans a new level of barricading: UHB, which is a rank above that of EHB+3. You seal the building totally. However, by sealing the building, you prevent anybody from coming in...and anybody from coming out. You can't free-run in, you can't free-run out, you can't exit the building through the doors, you can't walk out. You're sealed in the building until you destroy the UHB barricade, allowing you to go inside. To me, this is a fair trade-off. You barricade a building heavily, but you are stuck in said building, being a sitting duck.

Discussion (Uberly Heavily Barricaded)

Barricades are already almost impossible for a lone zombie to get past and you want to add another level? I'd sooner see EHB levels to be made to function like this TBH. --Johnny Bass 18:21, 21 April 2009 (BST)

I don't think there's really a fair trade off for UHB. Survivors would just raise it to UHB in a siege and force the zombies to eat through that additional level of barricade. Also the cades seem generally balanced right now. No reason to screw that up --Giles Sednik ^CAPDSWA 18:25, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Easily usable by griefers to disrupt free-running lanes and deny access to buildings. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 19:12, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Isn't the primary effect remarkably similar to SEAL THE ROOM!!!? In all the worst ways, I mean.--Necrofeelinya 21:58, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah I'm going with Necrofeelinya, this is way too similar. Sorakairi 23:08, 21 April 2009 (BST)

I have the same comment as I did to "Seal The Room." Why log-in at all? If a player wants to completely insulate or separate himself from zombies and gameplay in a zombie apocalyse, why would he be playing the game? --Winton 06:32, 22 April 2009 (BST)

EHB+3 may already be possible, and isn't really any more meaningful protection against zombies than EHB+2. EHB+2 stops wandering feral zombies and maybe smaller strike teams, but not larger organized zombie groups, and EHB+3 would do nothing new there.
So, the main use of this would be greifing (trapping people in buildings, resource denial by death cultists, blocking freerun lanes by death cultists) and keeping "bad guys" from getting into your building. Both of those purely feed the survivor vs survivor conflict, which (while an allowed and designed in part of the game) is not something the game should cater to with special features usable ONLY for that purpose, I think.
Look at it this way- its basically a ransack skill usable by survivors to create many of the same effects as a ruin would have. Is that a GOOD idea??? Swiers

Well, I thought the use by griefers would also serve to make the skill more 'balanced'. But yeah, this skill isn't going to get sent to the Suggestions page, even to get Peer-Rejected.--ShadowScope^{'the true enemy'} 21:50, 22 April 2009 (BST)

More zombie XP gain for smashing barricades

Timestamp:	ScaredPlayer 22:49, 19 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Balance change
Scope:	Zambahs
Description:	We all know that zombies get 1 XP every time they break down a barricade level. I think it's safe to say that this change was made to give zombies an incentive to smash barricades, as well as simply giving zombie players more ways to gain XP (compared to survivors, who have several more ways to gain XP than zombies). However, I feel that the 1 XP gain for each level destroyed is simply too little. Let's take an example; a zombie with upgraded hand attacks will have 50% accuracy for 3 damage when attacking a survivor. When we take a days worth of AP spent attacking a survivor, we get 25 AP x 3 damage = 75 XP gained. Combined with tangling grasp and the XP bonus for killing a survivor, the incentive to attack survivors rather than barricades is very high. Now if that zombie spent the day smashing a barricade instead, they would earn, what, 12 or 13 XP, assuming 25% chance to break a barricade. Now that simply sucks. I just feel that it should be increased so zombies have more incentive to ruin the city. Therefore I propose that every time you destroy a barricade level you get 2 XP instead of 1. I don't think this is too much, really. Even spending a days worth of AP attacking barricades, you would still get only 25 or 26 XP, a far cry from the XP you could have gained from attacking a survivor.

Discussion (More zombie XP gain for smashing barricades)

The big thing that I see in this: It's also rather newbie helping. I'm leaning towards an Insta-Keep here. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{^{^{^{^{#nerftemplatedsigs}}}}} (status:‎Mudkip!) 23:34, 19 April 2009 (BST)

What's an Insta-Keep... and I didn't make this with helping newbs in mind, specifically. But as of now, the 1 XP reward for smashing a barricade is truly pitiful; you could hardly call it an incentive at all. --ScaredPlayer 00:17, 20 April 2009 (BST)

In all fairness the incentive is the tasty brains on the other side of the barricade... that said though, the poor feral who spends his/her days rattling cades on the off chance that they will get inside with a few AP left to attack someone does get screwed by the current system. --Honestmistake 00:59, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah, I spent 72 AP total today pounding on a set of 'cades (that were empty on the other side I migth add, so no one raised them up while I was waiting), and I didn't even get them down to loose. I'm a non-rot maxed player, so I don't need the XP, but I know how it feels to be stuck on the outside of buildings pounding away, and never making it in. :'( --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 03:36, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, unless I'm reading the barricading wrong, you can earn up to 21 XP. So with this suggestion, you'd be able to earn up to 42 XP. That seems like a lot considering that destroying the barricade XP is both incentive and a bonus to getting to the REAL prize...the meat inside.--Pesatyel 06:42, 20 April 2009 (BST)

In a day the maximum average AP you can earn is 12 or 13, regardless of the building your attacking. I calculated that using a 25% chance to break a barricade with 50 AP. The odds are against you gaining more than 13 XP attacking barricades as it is now.

That's why I said UP TO. It is VERY possible for a zombie to breakdown a full barricade on his own. I've done it more than once. Now being probable isn't the same. I haven't done it very often. But its not impossible and that was the point. Even if you "average" 12 or 13, your STILL doubling that to 24 to 26 and your STILL allowing for the possibility of 42.--Pesatyel 07:32, 22 April 2009 (BST)

No — barricade XP is a joke, a booby prize. IMO its only real use is easily keeping track of exactly many collapses you have achieved while pounding on the barricades use, although I suppose it is some slight consolation for busting open an empty (strafed) building. Breaking barricades shouldn't be a goal in and of itself — EATING HARMANZ is the goal. Barricades are just an impediment to that goal. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 07:52, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Ok, so the two sides (humans and zombies) earn XP for attacking the other side. Why do humans have so many other ways to earn XP (scanning zombies? wtf?) and healing other people? Yeah, sure it's because there's more classes but that still doesn't solve the problem of zombies having a much harder time leveling. Plus, as I said before, even if this change were implemented, the potential increase in XP gain wouldn't be significant to unbalance gameplay - that is, zombies now looking for buildings to attack rather than harmanz as their first priority targets. --ScaredPlayer 23:06, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Scanning is very important when reviving - they go hand-in-hand. Survivors are radically different from zombies. Zombies = "Eat brains! Graagh!" Survivors = Survive, as a human being (which is far more complex than "Eat Brains!") --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 23:15, 20 April 2009 (BST)

It's never going to happen but its worth pointing out that the logic of xp for useful behaviour means that survivors should not get XP for attacking zombies outside, after all it does so little to aid their cause. Its the easy availability of targets that causes the imbalance in survivor/zombie XP race. --Honestmistake 18:14, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, "survival" means little more than NOT dying. Not very complex at all. But that still moot when it comes to the fact that zmbies are players too.--Pesatyel 07:04, 23 April 2009 (BST)

What might actually be better than a flat "doubling", would be a kind of "bonus" for changing levels. Say you have a 10 point (Very Strong) barricade. You get 3 successful hits earning you 3 XP and dropping it to a 7 point (Quite Strong) barricade. Knocking it to QS would earn you a bonus of, say 2 XP, so for 3 successful hits you would earn 5 XP. If you knocked that barricade down to 0, you would earn 16 XP instead of 10 (3 XP for the change to QS, 3 for the change to lightly and 3 for the change to loosely). So a fully EHB barricade would earn you, normally, 21 XP but with the bonus, it could be 33.--Pesatyel 07:32, 22 April 2009 (BST)

Disembowel

Timestamp:	A Big F'ing Dog 17:21, 19 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Skill
Scope:	Zombies
Description:	This is an idea for an attack that would cause a grievous stomach wound. Tangling grasp would be a prerequisite skill. You would only be able to use disembowel on a survivor with less than 20HP. The attack would cause 3 damage and have 40% accuracy. With tangling grasp it could go up to 50%. So yes, it's exactly like a hand attack but slightly less accurate and it only works on survivors with less than 20HP. So why use it? A successful disembowel attack would give survivors a new negative medical condition, "disemboweled." The disemboweled condition blocks the first first-aid kit used on that person - one must stitch up the wounds before treating other injuries. No health is restored, it just removes the disemboweled status. On the bright side, since you'd have to use antibiotics to treat a stomach wound infections would still be restored. So a first-aid kit used on an infected and disemboweled survivor with 14HP would leave them an uninfected undisemboweled survivor with 14HP. SURGERY There would be one exception: in powered hospitals with the surgery skill one would still heal 5HP. DIAGNOSIS/SCENT BLOOD Since a giant stomach wound is very visible, unlike infections, diagnosis would be able to detect it as well as scent blood. I suggest by making the parenthesis around the health red like so: A Big F'ing Dog (16) DYING Would remove the disembowel condition. So unlike infection, it doesn't last til your revival. This skill would allow zombies to keep badly wounded survivors badly wounded for when more zombies arrive following the feeding groans. Note: You could use disembowel on an already disemboweled survivor, but it wouldn't have any additional effect. It'd just be a less accurate hand attack from that point. The only reason a zombie would do it is if they had no health detection skills.

Discussion (Disembowel)

So, basically this is a way to get survivors to consume more first-aid kits, right? I don't like the idea of having higher consumption rates. I'd also think that at 17 HP (20 to start, 17 after the disembowel) you're going to get eaten dead pretty fast anyway. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 17:48, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Well, this is basically a zombie insurance policy against a very badly wounded survivor getting healed, if they can't finish them off themselves. It also gives survivors a choice to make. Treat those who are most injured, or maximize overall survivor HP? Should you blow a FAK on the badly wounded guy who might die anyway, or bring someone to 35 from 25? If you choose the latter it'll require more hits from the zombies to kill everyone and take the building but you'll be writing off the badly wounded. --A Big F'ing Dog 23:50, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Interesting concept. Misleading name, after all, if I disembowel you I'm pretty much already using your intestines as dental floss. Maybe something like "Puncturing Wound" or "Bust a Gut" instead? It doesn't really depict the effects of a serious abdominal rupture, just a minor nick to the abdominal cavity that's easily repaired. The Diagnosis/Scent Blood effect sounds good, as to the attack itself, I dunno... maybe. At 12 HP you can already drag 'em out onto the street, so doing this at 20 could add flavor by letting a character watch their player become more and more debilitated by repeated assaults, and it doesn't instantly kill them, though it causes them to require special attention. But I wonder if anyone'll go for it. Some might see it as a threat to balance, because it clearly makes players easier to kill. Not sure on this one.--Necrofeelinya 02:23, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, surgery heals 15 HP, not 5. Or did you mean that with this condition you only heal 5 HP with the skill? So, as far as survivors are concerned, all this does is force them to use 2 FAK to get rid of the condition and heal?--Pesatyel 07:08, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Yes, that's what I mean. With surgery you can remove the condition AND heal 5hp. Otherwise, a first-aid kit only removes the condition (and infection if present). --A Big F'ing Dog 15:47, 20 April 2009 (BST)

In the first paragraph you say tangling grasp is a prerequisite, in the second you give a hit rate (40%) before tangling grasp, which should be impossible. Not a bad idea, but given that the attack can only be done to near dead survivors, and the status goes away upon death, it's usefulness is very limited -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:58 20 April 2009 (BST)

I think he means it's a sub-skill of Tangling Grasp - you have to buy that skill first to get this one, not "you must grasp someone to use this skill on them." --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 14:42, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Yes, that's what I mean. The attack is unlocked only after you purchase the tangling grasp skill. And it's accuracy/damage would rise with Vigour Mortis, Death Grip, and Rend Flesh to max out at 40%. Tangling grasp could bring accuracy to 50%.

While the use of the attack is limited, it'd be worth using on a seriously injured survivor if you don't think you can kill them yourself. If a survivor stops by with two first aid kits and treats the victim, they might only be at 22hp rather than 32hp, much easier for some other zombie to kill.--A Big F'ing Dog 15:50, 20 April 2009 (BST)

I would actually get a fair bit of use out of a skill like this as my Rotter has over 16,000 xp and tends to drag victims onto the street for others to finish off. Disembowling them (or crippling or whatever it ends up being called) as well would just be the icing on my brain flavoured cake. --Honestmistake 19:43, 20 April 2009 (BST)

I've been thinking of ways to simplify this suggestion, and improve it based on your comments. Here's my idea:

When you have someone with 19hp or less in a tangling grasp a button would appear: [Disembowel]. Or whatever the skill is eventually called.

Pressing it would cost 1AP and would automatically give the victim the disemboweled condition I describe above. It would cause no HP loss (while it does damage health obviously in that someone's stomach is punctured, this isn't reflected in the HP total but in the way it interferes with healing since that's essentially having your health reduced by 10).

Wearing a flak jacket can potentially protect you from this attack. If the survivor has one on any disemboweling attempt has a 50% chance of failure, causing the zombie to lose the 1AP spent.

If you have surgery, in a powered hospital you'd be able to heal 10HP in addition to fixing the disembowel condition. --A Big F'ing Dog 21:21, 20 April 2009 (BST)

So, basically, this just forces everyone to use 2 FAK to heal and remove the condition (or a powered hospital).--Pesatyel 07:42, 22 April 2009 (BST)

Yes. --A Big F'ing Dog 16:00, 22 April 2009 (BST)

Return of the Power Grid

Timestamp:	CaptainVideo 12:50, 19 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Service improvement
Scope:	Everyone (potentially)
Description:	For three years, Malton's power stations have been dormant. I think it's time to turn the lights back on.

It would go like this:

First, you'd have to clear a power station of the undead and do repairs to all parts of it. Then, you would be presented with a clickable button. In Krinks, which I figure is atomic, it would say "Restart the Reactor." In Tolman (solar) it would say "Reactivate Solar Array." Just bear with me on that point - I understand that there are many switches and buttons, but I'm figuring that there's probably one master kill switch that's been down for three years.

What stops this from being a nerf to the undead is how the power is actually distributed. In order to get on the grid, you have to be next to, or diagonal from, another building on the grid - and ruined buildings, parks, cemeteries, streets and wastelands won't transmit power. Multi-square buildings - forts, malls, etc. - would be treated as a unit. Any part that has power gives power to the rest of the compound.

I got the basic idea for that from playing a game called ConFuseBox at Newgrounds.

After that, service could potentially be returned to all of Malton - although, of course, it won't. If the chain is broken, everything from the break outwards would go dead. People used to free power and light would suddenly find themselves in the dark. Were this implemented, I have no doubt that the living and the dead would converge upon the power stations as never before. Who knows who will get power, and who will have to continue using generators?

Discussion (Return of the Power Grid)

I like this as a temporary thing to mix things up and stir up some activity around the power stations, but not as a permanent game effect. Generators are a key item that have been around for a while, so just the possibility of being able to get around that fact and not worry about grabbing them really sets you up to get shot down in a vote. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 14:03, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Raises the issues of how Islands are powered? And I don't really agree with the multiblock partial powered assumption. If only 1 corner of a mall is unruined, I dont think the other three corners should count as powered. --Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 14:25, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Finally you're assuming the power generation methods. I don't know a lot of Nuclear plants in the heart of a city and a solar array seems to need a large surface area.......--Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 14:26, 19 April 2009 (BST)

I like the general idea of this and I think it would be a fantastic one-month feature, or the feature of a 4th city. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) OFFLINE 14:45, 19 April 2009 (BST)

I'm pretty sure this has been suggested before (the distribution method), but due to the huge number of power station suggestions I can't seem to be able to find it :/. Could also be that it was only discussed, not actually suggested. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 15:38, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Yep. This has definitely been suggested and knocked down before. I should know. I submitted a few of these myself. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{^{^{^{^{#nerftemplatedsigs}}}}} (status:‎Mudkip!) 23:36, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Hm. Well, it was worth a shot. -CaptainVideo 02:28, 20 April 2009 (BST)

XP gain depends on Starting Class

Timestamp:	Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 07:44, 19 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Improvement
Scope:	All players
Description:	Players who play as their class now receive extra bonuses to their XP dependant on what their starting class was. Military-based characters will get 1.5x the regular XP for attacking, killing and dumping zombies. Scientific-based characters will get 1.5x the regular XP for DNA scans, revives and healing survivors Civilian-based characters will get 1.5x the regular XP for repairing things, tagging and reading. Characters that started as Zombies get 1.5x the regular XP for killing survivors, attacking barricades and ransacking (while as a zombie)

Discussion (XP gain depends on Starting Class)

They already do get better XP than others as they have better skills in those areas. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 09:30, 19 April 2009 (BST)

And cheaper skills, to. Military characters level faster if they uy military skills, and leveling lets you earn XP faster, so... Military characters earn XP faster for killing zombies. Feature exists in game already. The only change this would introduce is making low level survivors earn XP faster (bad because they already outpace low level zombies) and making high level survivors earn XP faster (which just puffs up a meaningless number).
This is also bad because it penalizes dual natured play; characters who started as survivors (or at least as Military) would obviously prefer to stay that way, at least until they don;t need more XP. Same as those who start as zombies would be incentived to stay zombies.

Swiers 16:19, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Unbalanced, horribly. So Military classes get 15 XP for kills (and more XP for damage, which is a lot of XP to begin with) and Civilians get... 1.5 XP for a repair? We don't need decimals around here. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 17:42, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Military: 3 to 15 XP (22 for flare) for attacks, 18 to 30 for kills (37 for flare), 1 for dumping (no bonus).
Science: 6 XP for DNA scanning, 15 for reviving and 7/15/22 for healing (FAK/First Aid/Surgery).
Civilian: 1 xp for repairs (no bonus), 1 for tagging (3 if the special cases), 1 for reading (no bonus)
Zombie: 18 to 21 XP for killing survivors, 1 for damaging a barricade (no bonus) and 1 for ransack (no bonus).

So yeah, pretty unbalanced. And I rounded down. Rounding up make all those 1's into 2's.--Pesatyel 08:36, 20 April 2009 (BST)

This isn't good as it forces players to make a major gameplay choice before they've even touched the game. Also, as Mid. Linkthewindow Talk 09:39, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Not necessarily. Players could "switch classes" later in the game (as this would apply to veterans and max outs). They would just have to decide which class to stick with.--Pesatyel 07:52, 22 April 2009 (BST)

Morse Code

Timestamp:	Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 07:44, 19 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Skill (Civilian)
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	Sub-skill of Radio Operator, with it you can use Morse Code to prevent people who do not know Morse Code from understanding it. A drop-down box next to the field where you enter in your message will enable you to send the message either as "Normal" or as "Morse". No change to the character limit, however. With a Morse message, only those who also have the skill Morse Code will be able to interpret your message. Other players will get the message "You heard an encoded message on (Frequency)"

Discussion (Morse Code)

I think you should actually print out the Morse transmission, so that people can still choose to translate it manually. -CaptainVideo 12:34, 19 April 2009 (BST)

I would, but since each character of regular text would become 4-5 characters of Morse Code, even a small spam message would become 4-5x as annoying. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 12:59, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Not a terrible idea, but the spam would be annoying for people hearing encrypted messages. Technically nothing prevents someone from typing in dashes and dots and actually using morse code, except not knowing it. --A Big F'ing Dog 15:28, 19 April 2009 (BST)

(.... . .-. . .----. ... / .- -. --- - .... . .-. / .-- .- -.-- ---... / .--- ..- ... - / - -.-- .--. . / - .... . / -.. .- -- / - .... .. -. --. .-.-.-) --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{^{^{^{^{#nerftemplatedsigs}}}}} (status:‎Mudkip!) 23:40, 19 April 2009 (BST)

(-....- -....- -....- / .-.-.- -....- .-.-.- / -..-. / -....- .-.-.- .-.-.- / -....- -....- -....- / .-.-.- .-.-.- -....- / -....- .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- / .-.-.- -....- .-.-.- .-.-.- / .-.-.- / -..-. / .-.-.- / -....- .-.-.- / -....- .-.-.- -....- .-.-.- / -....- -....- -....- / -....- .-.-.- .-.-.- / .-.-.- / -..-. / .-.-.- .-.-.- / -....- / -..-. / -....- / -....- -....- -....- / -..-. / -....- -....- / .-.-.- -....- / -....- .-.-.- -....- / .-.-.- / -..-. / .-.-.- -....- -....- .-.-.- / .-.-.- / -....- -....- -....- / .-.-.- -....- -....- .-.-.- / .-.-.- -....- .-.-.- .-.-.- / .-.-.- / .-.-.- -....- -....- -....- -....- .-.-.- / .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- / -..-. / .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- / .-.-.- / .-.-.- -....- / -....- .-.-.- .-.-.- / .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- / -..-. / .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- / .-.-.- .-.-.- -....- / .-.-.- -....- .-.-.- / -....- / .-.-.- -....- .-.-.- -....- .-.-.- -....-) --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 17:46, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Why don't you just organize the people you want to talk to one your own frequency? This seems pointless and potentially irritating.--Necrofeelinya 02:35, 20 April 2009 (BST)

1: There's not enough frequencies. 2: People in the same area, or with radios on your frequency could listen in (they still could if they had Morse Code themselves, but it could cut this occurence down somewhat) --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 03:02, 20 April 2009 (BST)

There are 300 frequencies. Wouldn't it be easier to simply come up with a meta-game "code" to use? I'm all for lessening the metagame, but this just seems unnecessarily complicated. And, ultimately, this just hurts newbies since EVERYONE will have the skill eventually (especially the shear number of maxed outs) rendering the whole process moot.--Pesatyel 08:43, 20 April 2009 (BST)

You can already use whatever code you like over the radio, including the likes of ENIGMA or even stronger ciphers. If you don't use metagame communication, this might even be worthwhile! :) The suggestion itself is a bust, I'm sorry. :( ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 03:06, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Draging grasp

Timestamp:	Supflidowg 06:24, 19 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Skill
Scope:	Zombies
Description:	It basicaly would be a skill whenever a zombie falls (while still being a zombie)the action menu will have a"grab ankle" option along with stand up grab hold of the nearest standing individual (zombie or surviver) and pull themseves up while they drag that person down it would cost 3Ap to use and would not give any Xp (its basicaly a move to get revenge on the nearest person for "just standing there") it would be located to buy under a subsection of "Ankle Grab".

Discussion (Draging grasp)

Erm... what? So it's a subset skill that allows you to drag someone down after you fall down... dead? Does it instantly ... make the target dead? What's this all about? UD doesn't support people plain old "falling down." --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 06:43, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Sounds like it. I was always inclined to think Ankle Grab was overpowered. I think what he's implying, maybe, is that, to use Ankle Grab, you have to have someone there to actually grab. You stand up and they go down.--Pesatyel 06:50, 19 April 2009 (BST)

I think what the author was implying was that it would still cost 6 ap to stand up normally with grab when no survivors are present and 3 ap when they are... --Johnny Bass 15:31, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Actually what I'm saying is that insted of plain "stand up" you can chose to pull someone else to the ground and stand up for 2 more Ap than the regular "ankle grab"(I forgot to mention if you get "headshot" 5Ap is also added to the skill). Supflidowg 23:45, 21 April 2009 (BST)

It's still not clear (at all) what you mean by "pulling someone else to the ground." Do they die? Do they just have to stand up? Can they be attacked? Are they like bodies in that they can be dumped? --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 23:51, 21 April 2009 (BST)

they are just basically bodies untill they stand up again. Supflidowg 23:58, 23 April 2009 (BST)

Then this will get shot down in a heartbeat. Bodies are essentially invincible, and this will only allow survivors to "play dead" indefinitely. And since standing up presumably takes an AP, this is a zombie trading two extra AP to remove one AP from a survivor. Not only is that inherently unbalanced, it goes against the gold rule of "don't mess with people's AP." --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 00:37, 24 April 2009 (BST)

Narrow the Quarantine

Timestamp:	Murray Jay Suskind 18:33, 17 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Improvement
Scope:	Everybody
Description:	I know this is going to rain hell-fire upon me as I'll be suggesting that somebody's favorite suburb disappears, but Malton is far too big right now. We have 10,000 square blocks for 28,000 players (and about 15,000 of them are active daily). At a given moment there are about 12-15k standing survivors. This means that there is an average of 150 standing survivors (being generous) in a suburb. Obviously the distribution is unequal. However, this means that there's a large number of suburbs that are functionally abandoned. Additionally, the average suburb has absolutely no hope of standing up to a zombie horde like the Ridleybank Resistance Front, Mall Tour, or Militant Order of Barhah. Even if the average suburb crammed every single survivor into one building, that would only even out the numbers, which still isn't a winning proposition with coordinated zombies and barricade obstruction. Even in relatively well-populated areas of Malton, there still aren't enough survivors to defend against well-coordinated zombies. For instance, almost every single mall in the game will have a population distribution of roughly 75, 25, 30, 15. Even if survivors ran a proper distributed defense, this generic mall doesn't stand a prayer against a well-coordinated zombie horde. Then there's the impact upon the game being too spread out upon the feral zombie. There are roughly 9,000 standing zombies. About 1,000 of them are active metagamers (ie. members of an organized horde that's on the stats page). Let's say another 3,000 aren't active everyday or are level 1's about to idle out. That leaves about 5,000 true feral zombie players (and that's being generous). That's only 50 feral zombies per suburb. It may sound like a lot, but if they're not coordinating then there's not going to be the same kind of specific targeting you get with the organized hordes, with only one (maybe two) ferals active in an area at a given time, they aren't going to break into an EHB building and if they do, it's going to be small enough that they can't obstruct the barricades to any effect. Essentially the feral zombie is completely alone and powerless unless they happen to be in the same suburb that a large horde is targeting, and even then they're going to have a hard time following them because of how quickly the organized hordes are gobbling up suburbs. All of this is a long way of saying that the quarantine zone in Malton needs to close in somewhat. I personally feel that the game would greatly benefit if Malton were reduced from a 10x10 suburb map into a 6x6 suburb map. Simply make the corner suburbs Darvall Heights, Santlerville, Gulsonside, and South Blythville. I know, I know... but I'm tearing up Creedy!?! I'm cutting Caiger in Half!?! I'm getting rid of Giddings and Perryn!?! I'm daring to completely do away with (insert your group's suburb here)!?! Yes. That is exactly what I'm proposing. If we get rid of 9 malls, all of a sudden we'll see the density of the population surge in the rest. If we get rid of 64 suburbs, the density of players in the rest of Malton suddenly increases three-fold. Survivors would suddenly be able to meatsheild again. Ferals would suddenly be in groaning distance of other ferals and create more organic break-ins. Large zombie hordes would have to chew their way through some suburbs building by building again. Survivors would be close enough to one another to, you know, help each other in case of zombie attack. This game needs a kick-start. I know it's asking a lot to abandon the sentimental attachments to certain places, but things are more fun if you have more people you're playing with. If we share a smaller area, then suddenly we've got a lot more neighbors to play with. Anyway, discuss.

Discussion (Narrow the Quarantine)

Less distribution of survivor forces that comes with fewer buildings makes it easier for the "bad" endgame to happen. I say "bad" because in zombie canon the zombies are the bad guys, and them winning is "bad." Fewer overall NTs makes it easier for groups of zombies to coordinate and stack up inside and it becomes exponentially easier to cut off survivors from revives. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 18:52, 17 April 2009 (BST)

What makes you think any single given building (especially a mall) must be defensible against a well co-ordinated zombie horde? Large, organized zombie groups SHOULD smash all that stands in their way. Theres only maybe 4 groups in a game that consistently approach that level, and even they can only take out a few buildings at a time. That leaves 96% of the suburbs and 99% of all buildings safe from major zombie attacks.
Suvivors don't need to cluster up and stage a static defense; in fact, they should do exactly the opposite. By spreading out and focusing on rapid recovery (IE, lots of revies, repairs, and cading) they ensure there is always someplace safe to move to. Shrink the city down, and you just make it so there's fewer places to run to once the area you are in gets wrecked. Swiers 18:56, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Dang, BobBoberton got the ninja post. Basically the same idea. Swiers 18:56, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Its also worth noting that the games population has at times been almost 3 times what is is now. It didn't make the game notably better, and lower populations don't make it worse.

Swiers 18:58, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Whoop whoop! Not to mention it's good to have room to grow if another invasion of the Dead or such happens or the game naturally gets more players. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 19:05, 17 April 2009 (BST)

I don't think it should be easy to defend against a well coordinated horde. I think it should be in the realm of a realistic possibility. Right now it's really not. Zombies have been running over malls on auto-pilot that we would have been forced to really try on in the past. Also, the game was much better when the population was higher (see: Blackmore, Caiger III, Shacknews at Stickling, Mall Tour II at Stickling, RRF at Santlerville). Finally, if the Dead invade again, Kevan will take care of it the way he always does, nerfing / buffing the game mechanics. Nothing prevents survivors from playing the game they're currently playing, it just gives them another option. Also the game is pretty horrible for ferals (moreso than usual) right now. -- Murray Jay Suskind 20:59, 17 April 2009 (BST)

I think you're vastly underrating the attachment some of these emotional retards have for "their" Suburbs. I was thinking of something along these lines (but only the outer 36 boundary burbs to start with and then shrink further if needed) but decided that getting such a thing passed would be a herculean effort, plus I wouldn't want all those suicides on my hands.--Zombie Lord 19:50, 17 April 2009 (BST)

It's not bad because of the act of eliminating "their" suburbs - there are other issues with this as well. See above. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 20:11, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah, I read it. I'm still not convinced it would be bad to shrink the City. It's just NEVER gonna happen because of the attachment people have for their burbs, even if it would improve the game.--Zombie Lord 20:37, 17 April 2009 (BST)

I'm not trying to get this past a peer review. Peer review doesn't remotely matter in getting a change implemented. I'm arguing this on the off chance that Kevan is actually reading this. -- Murray Jay Suskind 20:59, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah, thats usually what I try to do...I don't even want to imagine the On Strike campaign someone like Mobius would try to organize if he though Dulston might go down though. Good luck at any rate. I think shrinking the city would be great for the game myself. Or better yet, a total redesign with less malls, less NTs, and an actual street plan that organized buildings into blocks cut off from each other as far as running lanes went.--Zombie Lord 21:14, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Again, this'd be something nice to do with a test city or a new city... in fact, I feel a suggestion coming on... --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 23:03, 17 April 2009 (BST)

This sounds like a "multiply it by a billion" kind of thing. A feral zombie CAN get through even the tougher barricades on their own. a "horde" of 3 can do quite a bit of damage even through that.--Pesatyel 04:12, 18 April 2009 (BST)

Call this a place holder for comments later. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 11:28, 18 April 2009 (BST)

Leave my Butt alone. >=( -- C h e e s e 12:10, 18 April 2009 (BST)

There could be problems with people's alts (ie: zerging, and keeping them outside of 10 squares with less squares) and as above, attachment to locations. Linkthewindow Talk 13:02, 18 April 2009 (BST)

What you want is a new Monroeville or Borhamwood. Your idea has too many problems to be taken seriously. What happens to characters in the suburbs you are eliminating? Density might end up higher, but then you also eliminate a core idea of zombie canon--survivors SHOULDN'T clump up. They spread out and avoid the zombie hordes. Add in the problems that everyone else has already brought up and I tell you to quit whining. If the population bothers you, get more people to play the game! --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 13:10, 18 April 2009 (BST)

Exactly. IMO an organised zombie horde should tear down everything they come across. And even then, they still don't always win. And when they do, you should MOVE. Do the old "clean up behind them" tricks, etc. Sadly, your suggestion would just cluster fark MORE survivors and have the opposite effect of what you intended: more mallrats, etc. No, what K needs to do is make non-life for ferals easier somehow. --WanYao 19:44, 18 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah, a zombie horde is SUPPOSED to come through every now and then. Hordes are good, as they leave ferals. But if there's less room, then hordes have less room to move, meaning more time in 1 place and more frequent visits, which becomes bad, as you might fix your whole 'burb, only to have the horde come back and wreck it. Time and AP wasted. to conclude, I don't like it. Sorakairi 03:14, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Just a note: you could keep all the suburbs and accomplish the overall map diminution by reducing the size of each suburb. Instead of getting rid of x% of suburbs, you get rid of x% of each suburb. 36 suburbs @ 100 squares = 100 suburbs @ 36 squares. I don't know that this particularly helps or hinders any arguments for or against this idea, its just another way to look at it.--Winton 16:24, 19 April 2009 (BST)

I thought about this at one point, but there comes a problem with the smaller the space the more likely alts are to run into each other. If you take away half of Malton you really start having a problem with keeping alts 2 burbs a part. Now I know with a game like this the whole alt separation thing is dependent on the person. But it would make it easier for zergs and griefers to do what they do, because there would be less space to hide from them. --Jelly Otter 05:29, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Anger, Rage, Berserk

Timestamp:	Sorakairi 13:40, 17 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	new MoL skills
Scope:	Zombies
Description:	This is 3 new skills, like a sub-sub skill. You buy Anger as a skill, which gets you able to buy Rage, then Berserk. Now, explaining. Anger works when you reach 15HP, where you get an attack boost of 1 but accuracy deboost of 5%. Rage activates when you reach 7-10 HP, and does the same thing, except you get an accuracy decrease of 5% so you have a decrease of 10%. Berserk activates at 4HP, where you become unable to choose who to attack, but have a 3rd attack boost of 1. You also have to be taken down to 0HP to be killed. Name is marked with letter, like (A) if Zombie has anger on, (R) if Rage, and (B) if Berserk. Anger: +1 damage, -5% to hit. Rage: +2 damage, -10% to hit. Berserk: +3 damage, -10% to hit, but have no control over whom you attack. Several Changes Sorakairi 23:16, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Discussion (Anger, Rage, Beserk)

If you don't like it, tell me why and I'll try to fix it. I'm also going to do other Emotions, like Happy, if this one is liked. Sorakairi 13:40, 17 April 2009 (BST)

I just don't understand this idea at all. For one thing, I'm not ever active when my HP is getting whacked down. And if I were active, how does it make sense to lose control of my target? I just don't get it at all. --Winton 16:10, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Er... -5 HP? That makes all kinds of not-sense. *fixes Discussion title* Also, as Winton, how often are you active when you're attacked - and of that, how often are you able to attack back in the 0-15 HP range? You die pretty darn fast in real-time! --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 19:04, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Zombies already fight like berserkers (zombie claw attacks are nastier than survivors axes) and don't much care if injured. Better attacks for being damaged makes little sense for them, and doesnt fit how the game works very well. Swiers 19:39, 17 April 2009 (BST)

You know, I have rethought this a little bit. After all, when I think about it, there have been periods of days long when my zombie has wandered around with single digit HP. What if me and a zombie buddy clawed each other down to 10 HP (Rage), and then went into a mall with a crowd. Now we are clawing 5HP @ 50% (w/Tangling Grasp). Now I am a habbah zambah! I'm taking down TWO survivors with my 50 AP, at least until I cycle up through the crowd and someone shoots me. I mean, you gotta like that, right?--Winton 21:12, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Thats what It's used for. This way small Zombie groups could take down more than 2-3 people in a day, and large zombie groups could take down other zombie groups, meaning more food for them.

I added in the stuff above to try to explain things better. If the author dislikes it he can remove it.--Pesatyel 04:17, 18 April 2009 (BST) l.

What about two people attacking a zombie? How are we to know that the bastard is beserk? We might AP out taking him to 0 only to find that the zombie is still alive and more destructive than ever. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) OFFLINE 08:50, 18 April 2009 (BST)

The -5 HP seems like it would only confuse and upset people. Just change the HP ranges for the skills so the zombie still dies at 0 and I think it's fine.--Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 12:58, 18 April 2009 (BST)

Okay, I've made some changes to it. It should be better now. Also, Thanks Pesatyel. Winton, Thats what I intended it to be used for. This way small Zombie groups could take down more than 2-3 people in a day, and large zombie groups could take down other zombie groups, meaning more food for them. Maverick, I've changed the health for berserk, so it should be good. DanceDance, I've solved the problem of not knowing. Phew, that took some thinking.Sorakairi 23:16, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Personally i like it that much all i'm going to say is that i love it!!! devilz-fury 03:59, 21 April 2009 (BST)

well then I'm putting it up for voting. Thanks for the help.Sorakairi 05:48, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Zombies are Scary to Move Through

Timestamp:	Zombie Lord 17:23, 16 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Improvement.
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	Any time a Survivor tries to enter a square with 10 or more Zombies in it requires some fancy dodge moves to make it through. For every 10 Zombies in the square it costs +1 AP to move there. So, 10 zombies, +1 AP, 20 zombies, +2 AP and so on. Also, there is a 10% chance that a Survivor is forced back their original square by the Zombies and still loses all the AP for the try. This is 10% for 10 or more zombies so even if there are 100 zombies, it's still 10%. Squares with 9 or less Zombies don't cause any effect on movement. Zombies are not afraid of Survivors so they don't suffer any penalty for moving through them.

Discussion (Zombies are Scary to Move Through)

This definitely needs a cap on the amount of extra ap survivors have to spend if it were to go through at all. --Johnny Bass 17:26, 16 April 2009 (BST)

Maye not if it's outside only, since you would always have the choice and know the odds.--Zombie Lord 17:49, 16 April 2009 (BST)

I don't like the possibility of moving into a building occupied by 50 zombies - "Oops, that just cost you 6 AP with no warning!" And since we can't have X-ray vision, I don't know how you're going to roundabout this except by making this outdoors-only or something. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 17:41, 16 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah, moving in and out of buildings wouldn't count. Neither would FreeRunning since you could run across the bridges pretty easy without zombies getting in your way. So outside only.--Zombie Lord 17:48, 16 April 2009 (BST)

Well, it could apply only to actions involved in moving out of a packed location irregardless of if it is indoors or outdoors. That way, they player might be a little more careful in where they run to. Or perhaps it could be for entering a building that has a large number of zombies outside of it. Just some thoughts. --Johnny Bass 18:06, 16 April 2009 (BST)

So, when would it count?--Pesatyel 03:07, 17 April 2009 (BST)

It would appear simpler to have it if you moved OUT of a square with lots of zombies. I also think fewer , larger steps, say 0-10, 11-20 20-40 41+--Ross less ne s s^{Want a Location Image?} 18:30, 16 April 2009 (BST)

That sounds cool. Ok, so it's when you move out of a square that it counts. That way you could have it work inside and outside and with FreeRunning. How about Johnny's cap idea with +5 AP as the cap, plus we throw in it's a 5% chance to be "held up" per 10 zombies with a cap of 25%.--Zombie Lord 05:02, 17 April 2009 (BST)

I dunno, this version looks a lot like an AP suck. Since you can't see in or out of a building, or into ajoining buildings you might free-run into, you could very easily move into a location packed full of zombies, and not have enough AP to move out (or at least to safety). I know that's kind of the point, but it amounts to an unpredictable, unpreventable AP loss. As suchg, it would be much like headshot, only with no effort needed (other than standing in a cluster) on the part of the zombies, and with the very real potential of suffering the AP loss multiple times per day. There's also the simple fact that this would discourage revives, because reviving requires moving into (and out of) a block occupied by zombies.

Swiers 19:36, 17 April 2009 (BST)

OTOH, it might just make Survivors act more reasonable for a change. Less running off into dangerous areas without regard to life. Yeah, the Revive part was in the back of my mind though, big revive queues would become a problem...but only in the case of a major zombie assault that slaughters many. Would make zombies holding a Ruin a little harder for Survivors to negotiate as well. But really, a Survivor probably should be forced to consider things like that when it comes to deciding to stay with the safety of the herd or wander off into zombie controlled areas. I like anything that helps make Survivors value their life a bit, instead of the relatively cheap Revive process that allows for "casual" death to be considered just another part of Survivor strategy in many cases.--Zombie Lord 20:04, 17 April 2009 (BST)

there needs to be a cap. also, why wouldn't it apply to inside, too? i think it should. this suggestion isn't quite "there", but i like the idea. develop it more thoroughly. --WanYao 12:18, 17 April 2009 (BST)

I'll be auto-spamming this. It makes an assumption about how all players choose to play and their character's outlook. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:28, 18 April 2009 (BST)

I agree with Wan, it is a nice idea, if you balance it out then it could be a winner. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) OFFLINE 13:47, 18 April 2009 (BST)

So how about a cap of +2 AP to move. +1 when there are 10 to 20 zombies and +2 when more than that. I'd be inclined to add that Zombie Hunters should get a bonus. Say there needs to be 15 to 25 zombies for the +1 and above for the +2.--Pesatyel 06:53, 19 April 2009 (BST)

The Happy Clown

Timestamp:	Sorakairi 14:04, 16 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Just Fun
Scope:	Everyone
Description:	Somehow, by some form of Happy Clownery, a clown has managed to get into Malton. He now wanders the streets, handing out balloons to those who speak to him. He is impervious to attacks, as Humans attacking him get the message, "His happiness radiates off, and makes you wonder why you attacked him, stopping you." Zombies get the message "As you attack, the Clown does a trick. You stop, amazed, and forget to attack." When you speak to him, he gives you a balloon. This balloon is useless, except that you can pop it in someone's face doing no damage at 100% accuracy, like a newspaper. You can only have 1 balloon at a time. Also, The Happy Clown is mute, as in he can laugh etc. but not speak. The Happy Clown will leave, as he moves from one end of Malton to the other, entering through one border and exiting through the opposite border.

Discussion(The Happy Clown)

Hooray for clowns! Sorakairi 14:04, 16 April 2009 (BST)

Humorous Suggestions is <-- that way. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 14:08, 16 April 2009 (BST)

I know that, this wasn't meant to be humourous. It was meant to be fun. Which is the same thing, I guess. But anyway, I just thought that people might like a change from constant killing. I mean, clowns are awesome. Everyone likes clowns, right? Sorakairi 14:24, 16 April 2009 (BST)

How about clown biker ninja nuns riding in horse drawn zeplins instead???

Swiers 15:05, 16 April 2009 (BST)

I'm torn. I like this idea - it feels like an Elvis sighting - but it's out of step with a game populated entirely by human-driven characters. -CaptainVideo 23:57, 16 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, most people I know hate clowns. You'd have a lot of people just trying to kill his ass (whether they could or not0.--Pesatyel 02:47, 17 April 2009 (BST)

/me hates clowns --WanYao 12:19, 17 April 2009 (BST)

well, then i guess its no good. Ohs wells. I will type my Zombie MoL skill now. Sorakairi 13:26, 17 April 2009 (BST)

You bite The Happy Clown for 4 damage. They become infected. They die.--Winton 22:38, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, if you've ever done it, they die before they become infected. >:3 (I love that message.) ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 00:51, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Oops!

Timestamp:	Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 13:11, 14 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	'Improvement'
Scope:	Greedy survivors
Description:	Whenever a survivor who has a total encumberance rating of over 100% dies, they have a X% chance to lose their biggest item (read: item with the most encumberance), where X is the number by which you have exceeded the 100% encumberance marker.

Discussion (Oops!)

This will create an uproar. Might I suggest an extra AP to stand up? -- AHLG T G THE END IS NIGH! 18:31, 14 April 2009 (BST)

I don't think the fifth generator really makes that much of a difference to the four I can stand up with and carry without any trouble. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 19:07, 14 April 2009 (BST)

I'm not sure which way your leaning with your comment. If your saying its ok to lose the "fifth generator" maybe, but what about your ONLY generator? Or are you saying that encumberance is irrelevant to your ability to stand.--Pesatyel 03:17, 15 April 2009 (BST)

No, it's neither of those. Am I really that unclear or is it just you? What I'm saying here is that why would the fifth be a problem, when four wouldn't? Though strictly speaking, even five generators wouldn't be a problem, you'd have to have some other stuff in addition to those five for it to be a problem. The inventory system is really unrealistic, this wouldn't fix that. This would just annoy people. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 10:55, 15 April 2009 (BST)

No, I think you clarified things. I agree, this wouldn't really help the inventory system.--Pesatyel 04:19, 16 April 2009 (BST)

I agree with gnome.--x o x o 06:49, 15 April 2009 (BST)

I like this, it seems altogether reasonable that a zombie is not going to struggle about hauling the extra weight that making it such a small chance even seems nice! It would cause uproar though. --Honestmistake 08:14, 15 April 2009 (BST)

At best, I'd say the character would would get to CHOSE which item(s) to lose to get under 100%.--Pesatyel 04:19, 16 April 2009 (BST)

While it does make sense, anything that serves to create a hindrance for survivors that wasn't previously present won't make it past voting. Think about trying to explain that rationale in the update. "Survivors across the map suddenly got weaker and...." I can't really think of a good way of explaining it via the update screen. --Johnny Bass 16:50, 16 April 2009 (BST)

I generally think the punishment for breaching the 100% encumbrance limit is merely that you can't get any more items, but despite my basic and boring opinion of the encumbrance system, I would probably vouch for either Blake or AHLG's ideas towards this. However, it might just be more basic and logical if you propose that people simply can't breach 100%. Although I am certain thats a dupe. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) OFFLINE 13:39, 17 April 2009 (BST)

NO U ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 01:00, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Over Emcumbered Slows You down

Timestamp:	Alex1guy 10:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Type:	Improvement
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	What I am suggesting is inspired from Fallout 3. When you are over encumbered (101% and up) it should cost 2 AP to perform an action as all the stuff on your back makes it difficult to move, shoot, hit etc.This would encourage survivors to take more care about what they carry and would stop people who are 99% encumbered, to suddenly be able carry an extra generator at virtually no cost.

Over Emcumbered Slows You down

Dupish -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 02:11 14 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, it ISN'T a dupe. Working Load applied only to movement. This applies to ALL actions. That having been said, neither is a good idea, of course. The former got into Peer Rejected. NO way in HELL this will pass.--Pesatyel 02:50, 14 April 2009 (BST)

How is this an "improvement"? Suggestions are to strive to make the game more fun. I actually think we should introduce a NEW category of suggestions. Said category would be ideas in which players could VOLUNTARILY make the game harder on themselves without affecting or forcing others to do the same. This idea would qualify. I could have a toggle on my profile that would "activate" this idea for my character.--Pesatyel 02:50, 14 April 2009 (BST)

Makes total sense, adds somewhat to realism, and isn't worth bothering with. The ability to exceed encumbrance isn't a big deal, especially considering how unrealistic the ability to carry all the crap within the encumbrance limit is. But unlike Pesatyel, I don't think things have to be helpful to be improvements, and like seeing suggestions like this.--Necrofeelinya 08:30, 14 April 2009 (BST)

That DOESN'T say how this is an improvement. Realism should help a suggestion make sense, not be the sole reason for it. Also, WHERE did I say it had to be helpful? I said "suggestions should stive to make the game more FUN". DON'T put words in people's mouths. And, as a matter of fact if you actually read my post, I said suggestions like this COULD be a part of the game.--Pesatyel 03:22, 15 April 2009 (BST)

It isn't much of an improvement, or I wouldn't have said "isn't worth bothering with", though the notion that realism isn't sufficient reason for a suggestion is an opinion I don't necessarily share with you, particularly if added realism makes the game more fun for others. Maybe that difference in our perceptions of what might be "fun" is what gives me the impression that you prefer your suggestions to be beneficial. And sorry I overlooked your rant about how this "COULD be a part of the game" as long as players are given the option to "VOLUNTARILY make the game harder on themselves without affecting or forcing others to do the same" as part of "a NEW category of suggestions". I took it for sarcasm. Apparently you were serious. Nice use of caps, btw. --Necrofeelinya 04:52, 15 April 2009 (BST)

Overreacted a little perhaps. Thing is that this IS just a game, one that most people only play for, what, 5 minutes a day? Why make it harder on others, unnecessarily? I'm all for the game being more realistic, but realism only goes so far before it infringes on the the fun/enjoyability of others. And thats where the limited play time comes in. I said realism shouldn't be only reason for a suggestion, not that it shouldn't be included (or that it wasn't necessary). You say "realism will make the game more fun for others" In what way, given this suggestion? Shouldn't it make it fun for YOU too? How does this particular suggestion make it fun for others? And, as you said you took my idea as "sarcasm" am I to take it you dislike the idea?--Pesatyel 06:57, 15 April 2009 (BST)

Like I said, I don't share the view that realism alone isn't enough reason for a suggestion. I think it can be reason enough, if it doesn't complicate game play. I just don't want to discourage suggestions which, like this, are mainly based upon added realism. But no, I don't support this since the amount of crap players can carry well within encumbrance w/o movement penalties is unrealistic to begin with, so this doesn't really add realism. The AP penalty doesn't make sense because of that, and would just be an annoyance that people would have to deal with, since it'd just lead to people wasting time trying to max out their inventories without penalty. But I like that he tried, and I think maybe there might at some point be a place for something like this, if it were radically different, fit the game better, and people actually wanted it, which nobody does.--Necrofeelinya 09:32, 15 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, I meant my idea about a new group of suggestions where a player can voluntarily make the game "harder" for themselves without forcing other players to take the same limitations/quirks.--Pesatyel 04:25, 16 April 2009 (BST)

Like Diablo's Hardcore mode or a Hardcore city! I'd actually be interested in such a thing. Harder for both sides, that is. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 04:31, 16 April 2009 (BST)

Might not be a bad idea. The best time I've had in Urban Dead has been in the early stages of Borehamwood or Monroeville, and I've wanted to see that kind of hardcore map made a more permanent, workable feature anyway, but there might be a way to introduce a hardcore element to Malton. Check my suggestion for the "Harman" class in Humorous Suggestions to get one notion of how it might work, for humans anyway. : ) --Necrofeelinya 07:40, 16 April 2009 (BST)

what i get in a search is random. i could be over-encumbered against my will. --WanYao 19:43, 15 April 2009 (BST)

Then throw some stuff out. Don't be greedy now. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) OFFLINE 13:40, 17 April 2009 (BST)

NO U ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 01:00, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Civilian/Improvised Weapon Bonus

Timestamp:	Kamikazie-Bunny 19:43, 12 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Improvement
Scope:	Civillians
Description:	"The civilians in Malton draw upon their pre-outbreak experience to better wield their improvised weapons." It is logical to assume that a civilian who plays golf three days a week is going to be able to swing a golf club more effectively than a soldier who is constantly training for armed combat or a scientist who studies in a lab all day. Civilian Class Players (Consumer/Cop/Fire-fighter) gain a 5% attack bonus to the following improvised weapons: Baseball Bat Beer/Wine Bottle Cricket Bat Fencing Foil Golf Club Hockey Stick Pool Cue Ski Pole Tennis Racket These weapons have no secondary purpose and are often discarded as soon as a player finds an axe of knife even if there is no bonus until they purchase proficiency. By giving them a minor bonus it increases their usefulness to civilians until they purchase axe/knife proficiency. In fact it makes some weapons more effective than the axe until they train in its use. To a fully developed player there is no noticeable effect on game play, but to low level civilians these weapons now have a use. Fire-fighters will still start of with the best melee capabilities and knifes will remain the most accurate weapon at all levels. This just provides the other weapon a purpose until they 'specialise' in the axe or knife. Arguments for every class being identical should note that scientists are 'unique' when it comes to books.

Discussion (Civilian/Improvised Weapon Bonus)

I do not care if scientists are slightly different. I did not vote for that, and think it should be changed. Existing flaws are not a justification for adding more. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 22:50, 12 April 2009 (BST)

I'm not using it for a justification, I'm just making a note of it for others. Aside from (and I'm guessing here) you wanting everybody to be identical is there any other constructive feedback? What I've tried to do is give potentially useless items a purpose with appropriate justification and balance. --Kamikazie-Bunny 23:27, 12 April 2009 (BST)

Constructive feedback: don't make it civilian-only. These are regular people we're talking about. They're pretty much just as likely to have experience with sports as military and science people. Other than that, no, at the moment I don't think there's much to change or add to this. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 00:14, 13 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, there is; this would make cricket bats and hockey sticks better than axes all the way until you get Axe Proficiency. Think what you're suggesting; a stick of wood would be better than a stick of wood with a sharp metal thingy at the end. I really don't think that's right. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 01:07, 13 April 2009 (BST)

Actually it WOULD be better than the axe, which is why you need the Axe Proficiency skill. It takes less skill to hit something with a club than with the sharp edge of an axe. An axe without the Axe Proficiency is, effectively, just a club because you don't really know how to "use it properly". Besides, that's the purpose behind the suggestion, to make the "other" weapons more useful if but for awhile.--Pesatyel 01:48, 13 April 2009 (BST)

Even if you don't hit with the sharp side, it's still a lump of metal at the end of the stick. I can accept the damage being equal until you learn to hit with the sharp side properly, but not that it's better than an axe. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 02:41, 13 April 2009 (BST)

The axe/knife is still a better weapon once you learn how to use it. Imagine this, you play tennis, you know how to swing the racket at your target and hit it (most of the time), suddenly someone gives you an axe to do the same task with... trying to do the same thing is going to be a lot more awkward, your not used to the size, weight and general feel of it. It's not until you've had a lot of practice/training that your going to be as/more proficient with it as a you were with a tennis racket (substitute terminology for a different item if it helps). --Kamikazie-Bunny 03:00, 13 April 2009 (BST)

It's quite different using something as a weapon than using it to hit a ball. As far as I know, tennis does not involve swinging the racket at another person. You're going to be awkward doing that anyway, regarless of whether you're doing it with a tennis racket or an axe. As for the other stuff, I hate to repeat myself, so I won't. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 11:04, 13 April 2009 (BST)

What about the length of pipe? Its a big hunk of metal. The reason the axe is dangerous is BECAUSE it has a blade. I'm not sure why Kevan decided to have the hockey stick have a higher damage, but since your hitting the target from, effectively, any part of the weapon it would stand to reason it would be easier to do then with a specific part.--Pesatyel 05:48, 13 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, no, it's not a big hunk of metal. It only weighs 4%, while the axe weighs 6%. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 11:15, 13 April 2009 (BST)

I think we're getting side tracked here, this suggestion does not have a direct effect on the damage a weapon deals, it effects the accuracy, if your used to using something you are more likely to be able to hit someone with it than a weapon you are not familiar with. I didn't include the pipe because it has a secondary purpose (barricading) and I may remove the bottle depending on what you lot think. --Kamikazie-Bunny 15:59, 13 April 2009 (BST)

"It is logical to assume that a civilian who plays golf three days a week is going to be able to swing a golf club more effectively than a soldier who is constantly training for armed combat or a scientist who studies in a lab all day." - Fallacious premise, GIGO. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 11:28, 13 April 2009 (BST)

I'm not sure what you find so fallacious about this premise? I wouldn't say it's a misconjecture that a police officer or teacher has easier access (both geographically and chronologically) to the facilities where they could practice their golf techniques than military personnel who are likely to be deployed on a base/training operation. --Kamikazie-Bunny 15:59, 13 April 2009 (BST)

Practising with something that can be utilised as a weapon does not equal weapons practise. I will concede that a fat CEO will have a better golf swing than a soldier, but a golf swing isn't really a combat technique, not unless you're going to saunter over to a zombie and then set up your swing and take out its ankle....

Let us look at the pool cue, that you included in the suggestion, how in any way is the cueing action a valid combat technique? I'll concede that the pool team downstairs have a better cueing action than me (well some of them at least), but in a combat situation I'm not going to set down my bridge (because there'd be nothing to rest on) and strike the zombie with a smooth cueing action, I'm falling back on my Iai.

How do bottles get on this list? 99.9% of 'civilians' only ever move the bottle from the bar to their mouth. How is action combat effective? Why do you presuppose they do this action more than soldiers? Clearly you've never gone drinking with Paras....

Practise does not equal combat effectiveness regardless of whatever you're practising or calling your practise. Alive training is the key to effectiveness, not the appearance of combat. --

.

. <== DDR Approved Editor 23:37, 13 April 2009 (BST)

By your logic, Military-class players should get +5% to firearms accuracy (or civilians get 5% less, but there should be a difference) and Scientist-class players should be able to revive with only 8 or 9 AP instead of 10. Nay I say! --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 18:03, 13 April 2009 (BST)

Overgrown Parks

This is now up for voting here. Discussion has been moved to the suggestion's talk page. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 00:52, 22 April 2009 (BST)

SEAL THE ROOM!!!

Timestamp:	Kamikazie-Bunny 16:31, 9 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Skill, balance change, improvement, etc.
Scope:	Who or what it applies to.
Description:	Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.

Survivors inside forts have began repairing the destroyed equipment in an attempt to protect themselves. The blast doors of the armoury can now be closed by survivors!

Closing the blast doors

In order to close the doors the armoury MUST:

Be powered by an active generator.

and

Un-Barricaded.

When these conditions are fulfilled a survivor who is inside the armoury may choose to seal the room at the cost of 15AP. All occupants will receive the message "Player X closed the blast doors."

Opening the blast doors

The armoury will automatically become unsealed if:

The armoury loses power (the locks will automatically release), occupants receive the message "The blast doors automatically released."

or

A survivor inside the armoury unseals the room at the cost of 15AP, occupants receive the message "Player X opened the blast doors."

Effects

When the blast doors are sealed no player may enter or exit the armoury, this includes zombies and body dumping cannot be performed.
The only way to contact players outside/inside the armoury will be via radio.
Any players may bang on the armoury door for 1AP, players on the 'other side' receive the message You hear something banging on the blast doors.

If the armoury is un-barricaded the area description includes the text "The blast doors are open/closed."

Discussion (SEAL THE ROOM!!!)

Hopefully this will lead to situations where groups are sealed in during sieges and end up arguing with/killing each other about if they should go out or stay in! I know this is very rough around the edges so please help me improve in additon to saying yay/nay. --Kamikazie-Bunny 16:31, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Don't do this with forts. Do it with banks. ~ extropymine ^{Talk | NW | 4Corners} 17:55, 9 April 2009 (BST)

For the love of god, don't do this with any building. No building should be completely impossible to enter as zombies without the aid of cultists. This is a trenchie's wet dream. --Johnny Bass 18:03, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah, I kind of thought that too at first glance, but I've got to give him credit... it's got a default that unlocks the doors and leaves the place fully open if the genny loses power. I don't know if that's enough to make it passable, since it just means that people will crowd in there with fuel cans and flee as soon as they run out, but it does mean they have to come out eventually, if only for a moment. And not being able to use free running to get in or out is a plus, though I'd take away their ability to use radios on the premise that the walls would be too thick. If they're going to be this isolated, they shouldn't be able to communicate at all. But that wouldn't stop metagamers from keeping a zombie scout outside to let them know when the coast is clear to open up and grab more fuel cans, so I still think it has major flaws. In fact, you're probably right, it's a disaster waiting to happen. Unless you give zombies the option of somehow 'cading them in with outside junk, so that they all eventually expire after a certain number of hours when they run out of air. But zombies don't think that way. So maybe they all get poisoned from the carbon monoxide fumes of the genny, which they have no way of venting, and which they can't sense the effect of until it's too late and have no way of predicting how long it'll take for them to all die. That'd be kind of cool. Or we put a button on the outside of the building which zombies can use that turns the whole thing in to a giant duck press when pushed, but only works when there's a genny inside powering it. I dunno, there might be options.--Necrofeelinya 18:48, 9 April 2009 (BST)

So this would allow trenchies to seal themselves off from the rest of the game with nothing to do but congratulate themselves on how KEWL they are and butt-fuck each other in text? So exactly what is the downside except that you are making this an armoury only action instead of a bank...--Honestmistake 19:29, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Let's say some well organized survivors decide they don't fancy playing the game for a while. A group of ten takes over the armoury with plans for the long haul. Let's say on average each player has 8 fuel cans (80% encumberance) with the other 20%+ for whatever misc items they might want. (Some guy has a genny, another a radio, whatever). Between these 10 players, that's 80 fuel cans. Each can lasts 120 hours (5 days), so let's say the genny gets refueled reasonably efficiently, on average every 108 hours (4 and a half days). That's 8,640 hours of protection, or 360 days, basically they could hole up for a YEAR. Whew. Kinda defeats the point of playing the game there. --

Rooster Dragon

19:50, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Yup, a very organised group of survivors could take an entire building out of the game for ages which means the armoury really shouldn't be considered. A bank on the other hand... well i doubt the zombies would care! One thing though that does occur... sealed rooms don't have ventilation so those inside should all die after a set time!!!--Honestmistake 23:10, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Oh, I LIKE that. But how would the zombies get out? They'd have to wait for the power to run out and the locks to pop. -CaptainVideo 23:24, 9 April 2009 (BST)

or they simply destroy the generator... --Roorgh 00:38, 10 April 2009 (BST)

Its a pretty original idea, if I dare say so. However there needs to be a way for zombies to get in on their own. Which would kinda defeat the purpose of blast doors since we already have barricades. Meh...--Thadeous Oakley 20:14, 9 April 2009 (BST)

I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating it would be as a zombie to know that my only hope for entering a building would be to wait months or years for the occupants to get bored or run out of fuel. Good lord if people manage to stock x-mas trees year round they could certainly load up on fuel. --Giles Sednik ^CAPDSWA 00:26, 10 April 2009 (BST)

I have to wonder if it's really so bad. The room trenchies could only attack when they come outside, just as they could only be attacked when they're outside. It sort of balances itself out. And since there aren't all that many banks, only a finite number of jerks could do this anyway. -CaptainVideo 00:32, 10 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, it would be a week, presuming nobody refuels.--Pesatyel 03:35, 10 April 2009 (BST)

Actually if combined with my (sarcastic) air shortage idea this might work. Obviously Banks not armouries and make it apply only to a "vault" within that building. It should require separate power and if the outside gets ruined the air con cuts out and the air starts to run out thus forcing the idiots within to either open the door and run for it or die a slow horrible death! Just think of the joy zeds could have suffocating moron trenchies who happened to log off 10 mins before the attack and die before they next log in =D --Honestmistake 00:45, 10 April 2009 (BST)

That's the ONLY way this suggestion would remotely work. I'm not even sure WHY he suggested it....--Pesatyel 03:35, 10 April 2009 (BST)

Actually to make it even more funny it should be barricadable from the outside thus allowing the rest of us to trap people inside :D --Honestmistake 13:23, 10 April 2009 (BST)

An iron pipe through the opening wheel of the vault should do it >:) -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 13:40 10 April 2009 (BST)

Seriously, no, no impenetrable barriers to pure zombie play, even in banks -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 13:40 10 April 2009 (BST)

If a player or players wanted to completely insulate himself from zombies and/or gameplay, wouldn't it be easier to just not log-in? --Winton 07:01, 11 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah, but then you're liable to wake up dead. -CaptainVideo 07:52, 11 April 2009 (BST)

But if you wanted to isolate yourself, then you defeat the purpose of the game, and so you don't want to play. so you don't come back on.Sorakairi 03:42, 21 April 2009 (BST)

The reason why this wouldn't work is because there will be that one guy who seals himself in, idles out, and locks off the armoury to everyone else forever. --Haliman - Talk 01:28, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Maybe it would be a self-eliminating problem, like the need for wire cutters. -CaptainVideo 04:21, 17 April 2009 (BST)

If not destroyed, generators run out of fuel in 120 hours, or 5 days, which would cause the door to release due to lack of power. Having said that, I'd prefer this as a suggestion for banks, perhaps a random 1-2% of them. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 01:05, 21 April 2009 (BST)

i like this, but not in the armory. as Haliman said, there will be the one idiot. Banks work though. In the vault. and the air shortage thing.

With a coordinated group this could end up as "hey, let's raid today" and have characters come and go as they please, locking the room after they're done for the day. Effectively, they could be invulnerable - they can go out and hunt, but no one can fight back unless you happen to log in in the five minutes the vault is opened. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 21:31, 22 April 2009 (BST)

If you see these movies where they have blast doors on bunkers and the like, they take time to shut since they're so huge. Usually an epically long tense time while the protagonist, his girlfriend/companion, etc attempt to get inside before it shuts leaving them trapped on the other side with something particularly nasty. Maybe about a 5 minute delay before the doors are too far shut to make it through without squishing would help zombies out. Means the survivors would have to kill and dump all zombies in less than 5 minutes before they get trapped inside. And then it would take time to open the doors again so they could get through. =) Actually now I think about it, this bit might kinda render them useless....unless....*goes away for a think* -- C h e e s e 21:43, 22 April 2009 (BST)

Joint

Timestamp:	Necrofeelinya 08:46, 9 April 2009 (BST)
Type:	Item
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	Locations: Warehouses; Auto Repair Shops; Pubs; Barracks; Outside of Malls; Cinemas; Hotels; Junkyards; Police Departments; Stadiums; Clubs; Schools. Encumbrance: 2% When used, the player gets the message "You light up a fat, juicy spliff, and the aroma wafts through the room." Other players in the room get the message "(player) busts out a joint and gets his mellow on." The player that lit up is then at -20% attack, attackers get a +20% attack modifier against him, and every movement costs +1 AP, except for moves which don't take him out of the room, like drinking beers or talking, which still only cost 1 AP. The effect lasts for 6 hours. Doing this to yourself is fully voluntary, and would be something that characters basically do just for shits and giggles. Players entering a room where a joint has been lit up in the last hour will get a message as part of the room description that says "You detect a faint smell of marijuana", "The smell of weed hangs heavily in the air here", or "This place absolutely reeks of pot.", depending on how many joints have been lit up there in the last hour. If 1 has been smoked, the first message is seen, and appears to new entrants for one hour. If 2 have been smoked, the second message appears to new entrants for one hour, then the first message appears for another hour. 3 or more and the third message appears for one hour, then the second, then the third, for a maximum total of 3 hours after its use that it can be detected. Should the player smoke more than 1, the effects on attack are cumulative, until the player reaches 0% to hit with any weapon and a +100% to be hit by any attacker, but the AP cost increases significantly for movement, with an additional +2 for the second, +3 for the third, etc., cumulative. So if you smoke two joints you end up with a +3 AP cost to move, if you smoke 3 joints you're at +6, etc. The effects of duration overlap, so that if a player smokes a joint, then smokes another joint 3 hours later, they're only doubly impaired for three hours, and the 3 hours on either side of those they're singly impaired. This suggestion is semi-humorous, because I realize Kevan almost certainly wouldn't implement it since it involves introducing illegal drugs as a game feature, but in all honesty, I'd love to see it actually added. I'm all for it. Jah, mon.

Discussion (Joint)

BIG PROBLEM... How are we going to light them, we don't have matches... You also forgot about food, for when we get the munchies. --Kamikazie-Bunny 14:13, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Penalties should only be relieved by becoming a zombie and feeding on corpses or digesting someone ;) --Honestmistake 14:18, 9 April 2009 (BST)

But we still can't light the stuff, I suppose we could eat it... but then we wouldn't get the smell in the buildings. --Kamikazie-Bunny 14:26, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Shoot a flare past your face. ~ extropymine ^{Talk | NW | 4Corners} 17:57, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Excellent suggestion! Think we can get anyone to try it in real life?--Necrofeelinya 18:24, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Please don't spam this page up with stupid shit. If you don't mean it to be entirely serious, don't put it here.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 16:20, 9 April 2009 (BST)

So, should I take that as a confirmation of my suspicion that Kevan would not consider adding illegal drugs to the game? Because otherwise, it's a perfect pairing with my very serious suggestion on intoxication, and I'd gladly put it to a vote. And I'd bet a lot of people would go for it.--Necrofeelinya 18:22, 9 April 2009 (BST)

No, he won't. Peer Reviewed or not, it not only doesn't fit into the genre it's also just a big waste of time to code in. The intoxication one is valid, although it's been suggested before. This one is just a waste of time so druggies can have fun in the game because they're too broke to buy their weed in real life.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 18:55, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Behold everyone! We have now come to the end of this page's usefulness. Now that SA has revealed his ability to psychically tap into Kevan's mind we can do away with this whole system of peer review. Simply go to SA's talk page and submit your suggestions directly, SA will then channel Kevan as he has done here and categorically tell you whether your suggestion will be accepted or not.

He makes shit up on the admin pages, why should I expect any different here.... --

.

. <== DDR Approved Editor 04:03, 10 April 2009 (BST)

I make up this shit on the admin pages? Please do tell where I explicitly state Kevan's will like that anywhere on those pages. I use logic and understanding in my views. Kevan has never shown any pro-pot ideals as far as I know, and were he to it'd hurt his public image quite a bit. Not to mention how many users he'd lose if he were to implement something like this into the game. Though please, do go on about how we make shit up all the time. Especially seeing as how the shit I make up has saved your ass quite a few times, or I've tried to when I feel you haven't done anything wrong. No, really. Go on. Tell me how I make shit up. Tell me how I have two sets of rules, one for one group of people, one for another. Tell me how I'm such a bad sysop and I'm going against the communities wishes. Tell me how I fuck up constantly and I'm not punished because of my sysops buddies. Go ahead and tell me all the mistakes that all of us sysops supposedly make.

Whats that? You're not going to? You're just going to ignore my post again aren't you? Just like last time where I asked you nicely to help me learn where I have shown to have two different sets of rules. Sure, you could have possibly missed it, but with you being you, I doubt it.

You have nothing to show that I'm as "Bad as the rest of the sysops", admit it. You have no consistent and substantial proof showing how "We're oppressive", how we're "Going against the wishes of the community who gave us our power", how we're "Constantly breaking the rules for the sake of our sysops buddies".

Iscariot, I've tried to be as fair as I possibly could when it comes to you, despite the bullshit you say to me and about the way I do my job, but someday my patience is going to run out. So I'd cool it with the baseless accusations and bullshit you say, because someday there won't be people here who will treat you fairly. When that time comes, you're probably going to be banned for an honest mistake because for the longest time you've treated the rest of admin team like shit. Sometimes it's deserved, but not as often as you make it out to be.

Good luck with your time here Iscariot. You're probably going to need it.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 00:18, 11 April 2009 (BST)

I feel a more appropriate response would have been "Thank you for your contribution." At least his first bit was humourous. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 00:39, 11 April 2009 (BST)

Thank you for your input only works when you don't want to hear from them anymore. I'm more than willing to speak with Iscariot about this, I'd love nothing more than for him to finally show proof that we're fucking up as bad as he says. But you deal with him long enough (Hell, I haven't even been an 'op that long) and he tires you out.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 00:46, 11 April 2009 (BST)

So, does that mean you like the idea?--Necrofeelinya 05:44, 10 April 2009 (BST)

No he doesn't (oh look, I'm psychic too!), try putting this suggestion up for voting and watch how fast Iscariot gets you onto A/VB. He knows that SA is almost certainly right, he just doesn't like the fact that a user is still allowed to have an opinion once promoted to sysop -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 14:04 10 April 2009 (BST)

Well isn't that just typical of our admin team? A passive aggressive threat of "put this up for voting and I'll escalate you for vandalism", fucking typical. Coupled with the fact they now think they can speak for me as to my thoughts on something with absolutely no basis, must be why they rule on 'intent' so often and get it wrong. --

.

. <== DDR Approved Editor 18:52, 10 April 2009 (BST)

You're so wrong it's hilarious. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 19:34, 10 April 2009 (BST)

*Opens the Wiki, all at once* My God! It's full of dicks! --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 05:28, 11 April 2009 (BST)

I must say, I'm beginning to understand "doesn't fit into the genre" to be simply a catch-all phrase meaning "I don't like it", unless by genre your meaning is "family-friendly MMORPGs" that just happen to include unlimited alcohol abuse without repercussions, Penis spammers, and easy workarounds to allow use of profanity in-game. Drug-addled survivors seem very in-genre to me, and the suggestion doesn't glorify drug abuse, it punishes it, though it adds enough flavor to lure people into that mistake. But I get your point... if Kevan wouldn't consider implementing it, it's a waste of time. Regarding the Intoxication suggestion, you mentioned it's a dupe... would you say its effects are similar enough to previous suggestions that it would be pointless putting it up for a vote, or is it sufficiently different to make it worth a shot? Got any links so I might compare?--Necrofeelinya 20:32, 9 April 2009 (BST)

It's used like that by a lot of users here, but I try not to use it like that. I can't remember many Zombie movies/books/games where the survivors were lighting up a joint. I've seen abusing medications in a last ditch effort to stop bleeding, but no mary-j. That's why I say it's not in-genre. On intoxication, just search for alchohol. It's not exactly the same, but then again, once one person votes dupe and a link is given, people tend to sheep that vote. It may not even be similar enough to dupe it, but it's a totally possible outcome. I'd personally just vote kill, maybe spam.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 01:18, 10 April 2009 (BST)

Well, there was a bit of partying going on in the remake of Dawn of the Dead, though not specifically pot, and I thought Caitlin Kiernan might have written a short story or two where survivors were holed up in an apartment after a party where some debauchery had been going on, though I don't think that focused on actual use either, and though I've never read it, I understand the character in the book I Am Legend is a complete wastoid, though that technically involves vampires, not zombies. But I've always felt that when locked in tiny rooms with no forms of recreation, terrified out of your wits, unable to safely venture outside and without any hope for the future, drugs would be a popular option whenever available. And in a zombie infested city, pot could be one of many weeds that makes inroads into civilization as infrastructure crumbles, especially if interested survivors are Johnny Appleseeding the place, which wouldn't be such a bad idea since they could also use it as a renewable fabric resource, minor source of protein, and if they really tried hard, oil, as well as the fact that it's both a proven painkiller (more effective in some ways than the more prevalent hydrocodone/acetominophen blends and their related opiates) and antidepressant, both of which they'd have quite a call for and which it would supply to them absolutely free of charge with minimal if any care. But it would give them the munchies, and Fritos are scarce in Malton.--Necrofeelinya 05:10, 10 April 2009 (BST)

Geez, how could I forget Return of the Living Dead???? Of course they smoke pot in that! And that's one of the greatest and most famous zombie flicks of all time!!!--Necrofeelinya 09:20, 10 April 2009 (BST)

YUP LETS TOTALLY GO WITH IT AND WHILE WE ARE AT IT LETS ADD COKE! AND HEROINE! AND METH! Meth You gain 1103485% chance to kill your opponent outright and you can fly! I LOVE IT! --Alex1guy 10:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Um... are you sure you're not already on it?--Necrofeelinya 05:10, 10 April 2009 (BST)

Somebody had to test it. -CaptainVideo 07:34, 10 April 2009 (BST)

This should be with the humorous suggestions. Why is it here? --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 06:29, 15 April 2009 (BST)

Winners don't use drugs. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 01:10, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Micheal Phelps. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 01:25, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Aspirin. Also, No true winner. ;) ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 01:44, 21 April 2009 (BST)

But I love destroying absolutes! --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 01:53, 21 April 2009 (BST)

And I love tautologies, circular reasoning, and paradoxen. >:D ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 01:55, 21 April 2009 (BST)

... so how 'bout that RNG? --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 01:58, 21 April 2009 (BST)

Suggestions up for voting

Sign Up Bonus

Suggestion up for voting, discussion moved to here.--Kamikazie-Bunny 19:51, 30 March 2009 (BST)

Limited Give

Suggestion up for voting, discussion moved to here.--Kamikazie-Bunny 19:28, 6 April 2009 (BST)

NecroTech Training

Having taken your suggestions into account, "NecroTech Training" is now up for review at Suggestions (please check the modifications I've made before voting). The other two ideas I had - Facility Access and Memories of Employment - have been allowed to die, since people considered them too unbalanced. -CaptainVideo 06:04, 29 March 2009 (BST)

Contagious Bite

Moved to suggestions proper!--Honestmistake 09:55, 8 April 2009 (BST)

More ways for zombies to gain XP

This one is up for voting now. Thanks for the input. --LaosOman 23:17, 4 April 2009 (BST)

Music! Music! Music!

This is now up for voting: Suggestion:20090411 Music! Music! Music!. Thanks to everyone who helped me with this. -CaptainVideo 01:30, 11 April 2009 (BST)

NT Ruins Ruin Rotter Revives

Moved to individual suggestion talk page -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 14:18 10 April 2009 (BST)

Developing Suggestions

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Sniper Rifle

Discussion (Sniper Rifle)

Limited Emote

Discussion (Limited Emote)

Whisper

Discussion (Whisper)

Shrieking Demise

Discussion (Shrieking Demise)

Uberly Heavily Barricaded

Discussion (Uberly Heavily Barricaded)

More zombie XP gain for smashing barricades

Discussion (More zombie XP gain for smashing barricades)

Disembowel

Discussion (Disembowel)

Return of the Power Grid

Discussion (Return of the Power Grid)

XP gain depends on Starting Class

Discussion (XP gain depends on Starting Class)

Morse Code

Discussion (Morse Code)

Draging grasp

Discussion (Draging grasp)

Narrow the Quarantine

Discussion (Narrow the Quarantine)

Anger, Rage, Berserk

Discussion (Anger, Rage, Beserk)

Zombies are Scary to Move Through

Discussion (Zombies are Scary to Move Through)

The Happy Clown

Discussion(The Happy Clown)

Oops!

Discussion (Oops!)

Over Emcumbered Slows You down

Over Emcumbered Slows You down

Civilian/Improvised Weapon Bonus

Discussion (Civilian/Improvised Weapon Bonus)

Overgrown Parks

SEAL THE ROOM!!!

Discussion (SEAL THE ROOM!!!)

Joint

Discussion (Joint)

Suggestions up for voting

Sign Up Bonus

Limited Give

NecroTech Training

Contagious Bite

More ways for zombies to gain XP

Music! Music! Music!

NT Ruins Ruin Rotter Revives

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