Suggestion:20090411 Music! Music! Music!

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	This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Peer Reviewed.

20090411 Music! Music! Music!

CaptainVideo 01:28, 11 April 2009 (BST)

Suggestion type
Item/Skill/Flavor

Suggestion scope
Everybody (for different reasons)

Suggestion description
The addition of musical instruments to the game.

Full details below.

	Music Lover
	This user likes music.

Extended explanation

Musical instruments will primarily serve to amuse the bored. However, they have specific abilities that allow them an additional limited strategic value.

• There are two basic kinds - those that are found as items, and those that are part of the buildings they are in. Their specific properties are listed in the table below; they all share the following general characteristics:
  • "Incorporated" instruments are part of buildings. Pianos are found in schools and churches, and organs are found in cathedrals (only in one square of each cathedral, though). Their music does not carry outside. They cannot be played if the building is ruined, and the organ will not work without power.
  • "Portable" instruments will surface when searching various areas (listed in the table below).
• Instruments are listed by name in a user's inventory (or in building inventory, for incorporated instruments). Instruments never "vanish," as books do; they last until the user throws them out.
• There will now be music stores in all malls; their yield is listed just below the table in "List of Instruments"
• Instruments cannot be used to attack anyone or anything.
• When you play an instrument outside, the sound carries for a 3x3 grid which you are at the center of. People inside that radius will get "You hear a harmonica playing to the south-west," or whatever is appropriate for the circumstances.
• Zombies can also hear music played outside, and will get the same description. Logically, they will be lured to it, which opens up a new field of possibilities for zombies (who will want to eat the muscicians), the survivors (who may be baiting the zombies into a trap) and PKers (who can just play music to call attention to any comatose survivors they have found, like ringing a dinner bell). Fun for all!
• Flavor would be fairly straightforward ("You play the piano") ("You play the trumpet. The sound echoes off the nearby buildings.")

Last, and not least:

• Every time you play an instrument (of any kind) you have a 20% chance of gaining one XP point. Mathematically speaking, this is not a destabilizing force for the game - you would have to do nothing but play music for ten days to get the 100XP needed to buy one skill. XP is simply intended to be a reward for playing music - just like reading.

List of Instruments

Instrument	Encumbrance	Can be found in	Search Yield	Notes
Harmonica	2	Junkyards, schools, clubs, forts (barracks)	2%, 1%, 5%, 2%	And you thought there was no direction home before.
Cowbell	2	Junkyards, schools	2%, 2.5%	Is there anything NOT made better with more cowbell?
Flute	5	Schools, cathedrals, churches	1%, 5%, 5%	One of those instruments you see in always see in church orchestras and schools.
Recorder	5	Schools	5%	One of those instruments you really only see in schools.
Clarinet	5	Schools, churches, cathedrals	1%, 2%, 2%	I had a friend who used to play one of these. I swear half the valves on it are for show.
Trumpet	10	Schools, clubs, forts (storehouse)	1%, 5%, 5%	This is one of those things that always shows up in bands.
Saxophone	15	Schools, clubs	1%, 6%	Undead Bill Clinton would be proud.
Guitar	15	Schools, clubs, churches, cathedrals	1%, 8%, 2%, 1%	Not included: sheet music for "The Man Comes Around".
Bass Guitar	15	Clubs	2%	By popular request!
Trombone	15	Schools, clubs, forts (storehouse)	1%, 5%, 5%	Another one of those instruments found mostly in bands. Bands of people, not bands of trombones.
Violin	15	Schools, mansions	1%, 5%	So, yeah. Violins. Yep.
Drum	20	Schools, clubs, forts (storage room)	1.5%, 1%, 2%	Alright, I got nothing here either.
Bagpipes	15	Forts (storehouse)	4%	Wake the dead!
Malton Zoo Kazoo	2	The zoo (anywhere)	2%	A popular gift shop item before the Man came around.
Wooden Train Whistle	2	Railway station	5%	Another thing you'd find in a gift store pillaged of everything else.
Piano	N/A	Church, school	N/A	Not an item, something that's part of the building. Includes a button that says "Play the Piano (1 AP)" when you're inside a building that has one.
Organ	N/A	Cathedral	N/A	Same as the piano, but won't work unless a generator is installed in the building.

Mall Music Stores: Mall Music Stores will have very low yields for any specific instrument. If you have shopping, you'll have a 2% for guitars, 1% for everything else - but there are no zoo kazoos, wooden train whistles, pianos or organs. Overall, this means that you have a 14% chance of finding an instrument when searching in a mall store; this would double to 28% with Bargain Hunting.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep - Yay flavor! Also, you can vote too author-man! --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 01:38, 11 April 2009 (BST)
2. Keep - Why the fuck not?--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 01:45, 11 April 2009 (BST)
3. Keep - Author-man has spoken! -CaptainVideo 01:52, 11 April 2009 (BST)
4. Kerp - Toot-toot. Guud.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 01:59, 11 April 2009 (BST)
5. Keep - I want to waste all my ap to find a bass. Though I must say, I'd be afraid to see something like A survivor plays guitar.. and again..and again..and again..and again..and again.. --Janus ^talk 02:02, 11 April 2009 (BST)
6. Keep - Playing a guitar in a zombie apocalypse? Hell Yeah, why not!--The Cop 02:59, 11 April 2009 (BST)
7. Keep - More culture in Malton? Who am I to say no? And...Who are you to say no? --DT^PK 03:23, 11 April 2009 (BST)
8. Keep - Keep, if music be the food of love then lets feed Malton! --mo ヽ(´ー｀)ﾉ ^{MCM MOB DB} 03:25, 11 April 2009 (BST)
9. Keep/Change - Make bagpipes available in Nichols Mall's Kilt Store, and you got a keep. ;) --Haliman - Talk 04:03, 11 April 2009 (BST)
10. Keep - I need to be able to play sweet violin music whilst watching people being dragged screaming out into the street by the walking dead. --CITIZEN VI 04:05, 11 April 2009 (BST)
11. FUCK YEAH HARMONICAS - D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 04:40, 11 April 2009 (BST)
12. Keep/Change - I love band. Cello would be a nice addition though...--JustAnotherWebSurfer 05:38, 11 April 2009 (BST)
13. Keep/Change - Make pianos available in clubs, drums incorporated (unless in is actually a single 'drum'. In which case you should add a drum 'set'), and bass guitar!? Upright bass is more like it! SilverMemory^PKMPR 05:46, 11 April 2009 (BST)

    I can't make changes to this without invalidating all the votes already cast, but if this actually gets into the game I'll look into the above suggestions as a "patch". -CaptainVideo 06:13, 11 April 2009 (BST)

14. Keep - Good flavour. --Papa Moloch 06:28, 11 April 2009 (BST)
15. Keep - What's this? A fun suggestion? I guarantee any of my groups would love this if it were implemented. Definite keep. --ZiP^MH+LUE 07:09, 11 April 2009 (BST)
16. Keep - Fantastic addition, I want it. --Hashk 08:21, 11 April 2009 (BST)
17. Keep - Great flavor and it will be quite fun to use the harmonica. --ZIPO 08:27, 11 April 2009 (BST)
18. Keep - Because I can imagine a horde of Randoms in their tartan finery dancing about outside Buckley Mall droning away on the bagpipes. XD -- Cheese 08:53, 11 April 2009 (BST)
19. Keep - Oooh, this would be such fun! --Saralan ^{Talk 404 ZHU ❤} 10:28, 11 April 2009 (BST)
20. Keep - Lets go out with a song! --Kamikazie-Bunny 15:46, 11 April 2009 (BST)
21. Keep - A lovely flavor addition, since I've already heard people singing and seen them dancing, this is an excellent idea! Besides, who could object to MORE COWBELL!! *grins* --Lois ^{talk 10MFH} 18:41, 11 April 2009 (BST)
22. Keep - I like it. --Varul 22:46, 11 April 2009 (BST)
23. Keep - We all need more cowbell --Fighting Irises 23:42, 11 April 2009 (BST)
24. Keep/Change - It needs more flavour text, because it's kinda useless without it. There's no point in fighting zombies outside and it'll probably get you killed, PKers would just kill the guy trapped outside themselves, and no survivor would be moronic enough to ring a dinner bell when he's the dinner, which removes the "zombie use". However, a guy playing a harmonica while in a warehouse makes for nice RP touches. So add more flavour, and I'll be completely happy =) --LaosOman 23:47, 11 April 2009 (BST)
25. Keep - Nice suggestion, would definitely add flavour, nice RP bonus too. A little more detailed flavor text, perhaps? --A Zombie ^{Barbraz Employee} 00:06, 12 April 2009 (BST)
26. Keep - Yaaaay *Prepares to start the Musicians' Union of Malton*--Idly Hummingbird 04:26, 12 April 2009 (BST)
27. Keep - i can see this after a couple years survivors playing music to take their minds off the fact that there are zombies around. --Lt.G Deathnut | TheStayPuftMan 05:02, 12 April 2009 (BST)
28. Keep - Because it's just that awesome. Oh yeah, and as above, especially as StayPuft. --Private Mark 07:29, 13 April 2009 (BST)
29. Keep -It's about time those zambahs had a bit of culture knocked into them, it's a keep from me. --Alex1guy 21:06, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
30. Keep For nothing more than to see certain people squirm when they log on. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 10:11, 13 April 2009 (BST)
31. Keep - A well thought out, logical, and FUN suggestion? On MY Urban Dead wiki? I like this a lot. I can't contribute any other reasons why that haven't already been said. Besides, who doesn't need more cowbell? --Fujiko Mine 17:05, 13 April 2009 (BST)
32. Keep - I just like it. Getting XP for playing a guitar or bagpipes sounds really cool, I hope this gets implemented. Nemesis645 18:04, 13 April 2009 (BST)
33. Keep - Hooray for flavor! And Bagpipes! Conner Martel 19:27, 15 April 2009 (BST)
34. Keep - Could evolve into a form of ID.--3R 01:53, 16 April 2009 (BST)
35. Keep - This would be awesome. Absolultely Awesome. 'Cept I'd like to be able to hit people with the small instruments. Like, Player X hit you with his guitar...and again...and again. Oh, and able to play over radio. XD Sorakairi 14:36, 16 April 2009 (BST)
36. Keep - Although it'd be way cooler if you'd included a keytar. :] Bastetmeow 13:52, 17 April 2009 (BST)
37. Ke..KEKEKEKEKE - Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down.. _■^■ 02:44, 18 April 2009 (BST)
38. Keep - The XP gain is wholly unnecessary, as people don't need a reason to play an instrument. But damnit I want my music! --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 14:13, 19 April 2009 (BST)
39. Keep/Change - I would change one thing, allow there to be a 50 character box which allows you to change up the flavor a little bit. Maybe have it be "[Player] plays [type whatever] on [instrument]." Example "S1leNt RIP plays Pachelbel's Canon on violin (timestamp)." Even so I love the idea! Playing violin in a mall as the hordes of zombies pour in=awesome flavor! --S1leNt RIP 21:12, 20 April 2009 (BST)
40. Keep - As all of the above.--Zombie Lord 11:07, 21 April 2009 (BST)
41. Keep - ...--Kolechovski 21:02, 21 April 2009 (BST)
42. Keep - St. John Classic Rock Station loves this idea!--Gargulec 21:18, 22 April 2009 (BST)
43. Keep/Change - If people want to blow their AP on this, fine. However what happens to stationary instruments (piano, organ, etc) in a ruined building; Do zombies not ruin the instrument they find as well? --YoEleven 11:04, 23 April 2009 (BST)
44. Keep - I don't think this one has much chance of getting past Kevan, but what the hell, it's cute.--Jiangyingzi 15:29, 23 April 2009 (BST)
45. Keep - I think this is awesome. And a great way to keep yourself amused. --D.E.ATalk 14:20, 25 April 2009 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill-Enhances survivor role-playing but doesn't advance or promote the central theme of the game: a survivor vs. zombie apocalyptic conflict. I think it may actually detract from that theme. I find the XP gain difficult to justify also. How does playing an instrument increase my fighting/healing/scientific/construction ability in such a way as to warrant or contribute towards an additional skill level in any of those areas? --Winton 06:51, 11 April 2009 (BST)

   I find Max Brooks' argument relevent here. In The Zombie Survival Guide, he encourages survivors to take on hobbies to help take the edge off the cabin fever that comes with fighting the dead from building to building. Likewise, one could say that playing music helps calm the nerves enough to master skills of direct value to survival. -CaptainVideo 07:23, 11 April 2009 (BST)

   RE: Here is the point I am trying to make. "Fun" in a game is about conflict and competition. A really good suggestion should either enhance an existing point of conflict (where zombies and survivors interact), or create a new point of conflict. As it stands, this suggestion is "fun" for survivors only. What if: You grab Player X by the trombone and wrap it around their neck for 3 damage. The trombone breaks. Now it's "fun" for the zombie player, because he can respond to taunting instrument play. He has some incentive to get engaged. It should be more fun for the survivor as well, because there is now some risk associated with playing the instrument, even if its just the risk of losing the instrument. Now we have a new point of conflict between survivors and zombies, which is "fun" for both sides. Otherwise it is simply a role playing device. I don't think it is a bad idea, I just think it should be tweaked to engage all players. --Winton 18:12, 11 April 2009 (BST)

   I maintain that fun is what you make of it. Zombies can elect to attack or ignore instruments anyway; whether the instrument is actually involved in the demise of the musician doesn't matter as much. -CaptainVideo 19:47, 11 April 2009 (BST)

2. Kill - This is a zombie apocalypse. I simply don't think this fits. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 16:56, 11 April 2009 (BST)
3. Kill - This is a huge detraction from the game. If I wanted to play pretend instrument I'd turn on Rock Band. This is Urban Dead, not Urban Dead-Air. At least make the pianos droppable from high rise buildings and killing whoever happens to be standing underneath. --DTangent 21:02, 12 April 2009 (BST)
4. Kill - i just dont see the point --Sgt Gonnella 14:24, 25 April 2009 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. SPAM-First, as a zombie, the last thing I want while wreaking havoc upon the city is a serenade from the New York Philharmonic. Second, this would lead to idiotic survivors running up to zombies and using it as a tool to taunt them, damaging the mood of the game for zombie players, and there is no way to punish people for using this to harass other players. Third, I'm not all that fond of most music. Fourth, this stuff about it being heard for up to 3 blocks would lead to a positively nauseating prevalence of sound pollution as survivors stroke each others or their own egos. Fifth, it's just another thing for survivors to do instead of interacting with zombies, another way to edge the game closer to being a damned chatroom, and as noted by Winton above will detract from the central theme and mood of the game. Just say no to wandering minstrels! Huzzah!!! --Necrofeelinya 08:20, 11 April 2009 (BST)

   Oh, and also think of being in a Mall with over a hundred people in every corner each with @#$%&*% instruments. SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM!!!!! Think of the SPAM!--Necrofeelinya 08:30, 11 April 2009 (BST)

   Maybe if like, 10 instruments were played from 1 area you get "You hear several instruments coming from X,Y" That kinda stops spam....Or if they came from different areas you get "You hear instruments from many directions, and are unable to determine where they came from" Sorakairi 14:41, 16 April 2009 (BST) Non-author reply struck. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 14:53, 16 April 2009 (BST)

2. Spam - The great thing about feeding groan is that it is extremely hard to falsify a groan. If a zombie hears a groan from a few minutes ago, it can be almost sure of a free feed (or at least finding a building under attack). Survivors shouldn't be able to "lure" zombies with pseudo-groans like this, nor dance around taunting them with music, then running back inside behind barricades elsewhere. This will just be more spam, like those useless flares -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 10:37 11 April 2009 (BST)
3. You wanna be a Guitar Hero or any other instrument hero, do it somewhere else. Like on Rockband, or Guitar Hero: World Tour. Because, as Necrofeelinya said, this will only cause a shitload of spam. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} (status:‎Mudkip!) 23:46, 11 April 2009 (BST)

   Well. I think this vote can now be legally changed from SPAM to DUPE now, since Rosslessness got the link. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} (status:‎Mudkip!) 23:18, 13 April 2009 (BST)

4. Spam - Urban Dead, not Come Jivin'. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 22:04, 12 April 2009 (BST)

   Ditto Axe Hack, that's three Dupes, this suggestion can now be cycled. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 23:43, 13 April 2009 (BST)

5. Spam - Its a great idea and would be fun for a while, then it would get old and dull and finally (probably after a week!) it would begin to annoy the piss out of people! --Honestmistake 12:53, 13 April 2009 (BST)
6. Dupe of Suggestion:20071027 Instruments --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:02, 13 April 2009 (BST)

   I disagree. Although the basic idea - finding instruments and using them - is the same, the use of the instruments is dramatically different on many different levels. Therefore, this is not a dupe, which is defined as a "suggestion was an exact duplicate of another suggestion already made (or close enough to have no significant differences)." -CaptainVideo 00:06, 14 April 2009 (BST)

   As stated above I believe it is a dupe. As "The basic idea -is the same" that is my opinion. And why are you bolding this is not a dupe? I thought you already had your vote? Does this mean I can say Misconduct, vandalism and or WTF Centaurs?--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:21, 14 April 2009 (BST)

   I've sent for an arbitrator. This complaint should be resolved soon. -CaptainVideo 00:26, 15 April 2009 (BST)

   _{moved to talk page xoxo 03:30, 15 April 2009 (BST)}

7. Dupe of every crap idea to come through this place.--xoxo 04:31, 14 April 2009 (BST)

   P.S this is actually a spam vote.--xoxo 04:32, 14 April 2009 (BST)

8. Spam - As Iscariot. Limit it to 2 - 3 instruments and you've got some good flavor. --Paddy Dignam^{IS DEAD} 18:52, 16 April 2009 (BST)
9. Spam - As Above, OP is a faggot--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 19:03, 19 April 2009 (BST)
10. Spam! Spam! Spam! :P ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 01:36, 21 April 2009 (BST)