Suggestion:20080220 Fire Extinguisher

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Fire Extinguisher

Aeon17x 14:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion type
New survivor equipment

Suggestion scope
Survivors, particularly of the Firefighter civilian subclass

Suggestion description
This suggestion introduces a new item called the "fire extinguisher".

Locations : Same locations as the fire axe, plus the following: Fire Stations (8%/12%), NecroTech Buildings (5%/8%), Buildings (3%/5%), Libraries (3%/5%), Schools (3%/5%)

Encumbrance : 10%

A fire extinguisher


Comments:

Single use only. When applied (fire extinguisher on [target]), there's a chance it deals 1 HP damage and inflicts a 'slow' status on the target, which makes them use an additional 1 AP for the next one to three AP-consuming actions except for speaking and groaning. The probability of that happening are as follows:

30% - nothing happens, the target is not slowed
40% - deals 1 HP damage, and the target is slowed for one action
20% - deals 1 HP damage, and the target is slowed for two actions
10% - deals 1 HP damage, and the target is slowed for three actions

After use, the fire extinguisher disappears from your inventory.

Anyone can cure a slow status with a First Aid Kit.


Technical details:

  • When used on a target and it succeeds: you get a message -- "You spray [target] with a fire extinguisher, engulfing them in fire retardant foam. Their movements seem to be slowed by the foam. " 1 AP is consumed, and the fire extinguisher is used up.
  • When used on a target and it fails: you get a message -- "You spray [target] with a fire extinguisher, engulfing them in fire retardant foam. It has no noticeable effect on them. " 1 AP is consumed, and the fire extinguisher is used up.
  • When used on a survivor and the slow takes effect: there will be a cyan asterisk right next to their HP counter, like this: Infected and Slowed Survivor (42HP)*. The asterisk lasts until the target has used actions equal to how long they're slowed (e.g. if the target is slowed for two actions, the color disappears after the target has done two actions), or after the application of a first aid kit on the target.
  • When used on an already slowed survivor: you get a message -- "Your target is already slowed, you will gain no benefit from using a fire extinguisher on them." No AP is consumed, and the fire extinguisher is not used.
  • When used on an already slowed zombie: fire extinguisher targets the next un-slowed zombie in the stack, similar to how DNA extractors work.
  • When all the zombies in the stack are already slowed: you get a message -- "All zombies in the area are already slowed, you will gain no benefit from using a fire extinguisher on them." No AP is consumed, and the fire extinguisher is not used.
  • Like falling from a ruin, the fire extinguisher does not kill. It will always leave the target with at least 1 HP.


Rationale:

Fire extinguishers are needed in Malton. For a city with a huge number of fire stations and firefighter wielding fire axes, it's kinda weird to have a citizenry who do not possess fire extinguishers at all.

However, like the other firefighter items, fire extinguishers are not used against fire anymore; instead they're used against zombies. And perhaps other humans.

Fire extinguishers can slow down people, depending on the material. For the fire extinguishers I'm suggesting in this game, I'm going with the AFFF (aqueous film forming foam) type, it's for class A and B fires. It cools very rapidly, sticks really nicely, expands when released, and restricts the flow of air. Imagine what a full tank of that could do to people.

About the 10% encumbrance: fire extinguishers are quite heavy compared to fire axes. I know, we have our own fire axe and fire extinguisher in the library, and I've also checked with other offices. It's definitely heavier, sometimes by as much as twice as the fire axe's weight.

About the asterisk on the survivor HP counter: It shows to other survivors that they have been slowed already, and therefore should not be targeted by another fire extinguisher. It's also used to visualize what a person looks like after they get foamed.

About the 1 HP damage: fire extinguishers are high pressure devices, they pack quite a punch if aimed directly at a person. Another reason is that the damage makes it possible for FAKs to be applied.

About why FAKs can remove the slow effect: part of applying first aid is making sure your target is clean. That includes wiping off the foam from the fire extinguisher.

Against certain inventory do's and do not's: Leave Other People's AP Alone -- A 10% chance of losing 3 potential AP from a fire extinguisher is not "massive", especially when it can be mitigated by speaking, groaning, and FAKs. There's a 1% chance to hit that twice in a row, which is the only way it would equal Headshot. Also it only deals 0-1 AP loss about two thirds of the time.

Against dupes -- Yes, I know they are out there. All of them includes the fire extinguisher killing fires one way or another. This suggestion talks about using the fire extinguisher as an item against people.


Miscellaneous:

Fire extinguishers are usually not refillable and are only used once, so I'm not including refilling in powered fire stations and multiple charges into this suggestion.

Firefighter characters should have one of these in their starting items.

I suppose this would be popular in clubs... foam parties, anyone?

On a serious note, Iscariot says that fire extinguishers can be used for griefing. If this is ever implemented, the bounty lists would have to include fire extinguisher use on other survivors in their list of offenses that could get you a bounty.

And that's all. Whatever the verdict is, I thank you for all the feedback you folks sent when I put this into discussion!

(A rough draft of this suggestion in its own page -- User:Aeon17x/Fire_Extinguisher)


Voting Section

Voting Rules
Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped.
# justification ~~~~

Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.


Keep Votes

  1. Keep - You know what? I actualy like the idea. You may need to screw with the numbers to make some of the people below happy, but I like it. (P.S. some people will never be happy, even if you gave out free money with it) --Alphonse Burr 18:35, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
    Weak Keep - I like the Idea but im not sure you have thought it through fully. I also like the idea of combining them to make people really slow. --Carnexhat Improperly signed. --Z. slay3r •  Talk  00:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  2. Keep - We need these in some form. This one is alright, although you need to adjust the numbers for all the spammers. --Heretic144 23:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  3. Keep - Fun new item to play with. I wouldn't object to carrying one on my PKer for a few laughs. --Zombie in Pajamas 23:13, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
    Keep - --Jamie Cantwell3 00:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC) No justification. -- Cheese 20:51, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  4. Keep - It would be fun to clame someone was on fire and spray him. --FXI 01:39, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  5. Keep - Oh my God! You dare suggest we deprive anyone of 3AP? YOU DARE?! --Hhal 22:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  6. Keep As all the other keep votes. ~A`Blue`JellyTME*V*I*L*? 05:59, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
  7. Keep Good suggestion, maybe being able to swing the fire extinguisher too? It would be inefficient as a weapon, but it could have a chance of slowing them down. Good as it is though.--The apprentice 03:07, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Kill Votes

  1. I don't like that slow status. It's like a monster casting Slow on one of your characters in Final Fantasy. And in an attempt to counter it, you cast haste on your character. Here, Slow is the extinguisher. Haste is the FAK. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 14:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
    Actually, the FAK bit is a trap. At best, you use about 3 AP to search for a FAK and apply it, so overall you still waste AP if you use that to counter the effects of a fire extinguisher. --Aeon17x 23:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  2. Sorry but it just doesn't work for me as its presented! The only reason to use it would be as a coup de grace against 1HP targets as its an 80% chance to hit and would add to the effect of headshot! Of course you very wisely took that use out, however in so doing you also took out the only reason to use this--Honestmistake 15:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
    Gotcha, I just thought it would be ridiculous beyond all measure if these things could kill. --Aeon17x 23:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  3. Kill-I don't really think this would work.-Studoku 15:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  4. As Axe Hack - Not a big fan of this to be honest. -- Cheese 16:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  5. Kill - I like this suggestion, it's well thought-out and written; however, I REALLY hate the slow effect. Headshot is bad enough.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  17:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  6. Kill/Change - I'd rather physically beat someone to death with my fire extinguisher than spray it on them. Who refills these things anyway? The Malton Janatorial Department (soon to be a subsidiary of the DEM]) or does the MFD do it in Old Arkham where nothing happens? --Akule School's in session. 17:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  7. Kill - Has potential, but kill the slow effect, as per Grim's reasons. I think this may have to wait until there is fire in the game. --Druuuuu OcTRR 18:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  8. Kill it seems like something which would be more useful by zombie spies or death cultists, and they suck too much already--CorndogheroT-S-Z 18:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  9. kill - as above --~~~~ [talk] 20:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  10. Kill - I'm with Billy; this is excellently written, but I don't like the effects. --Diano 21:33, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  11. Kill - Excellently written. But the WTF factor plus the "what's the point?" factor render this a Kill. --BoboTalkClown 21:39, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  12. Kill - I dunno... I think we should reserve fire extinguishers for when/if fire ever becomes a factor in the game. --Uncle Bill 01:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  13. Take to Discussion - I refuse to believe that this is a crappy suggestion, as several others seem to believe, because while it messes with AP, 1-3AP is not earth-shattering in any way. However, further discussion is needed on how this would be implemented. --Private Mark 01:27, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  14. Noop -- well thought out and put together, but it just doesn't jive well for me... and i don't buy that we're not putting out fires... i would be happy to see actual fires and FE's used to put them out. and/or used as a melee weapon: GO BONK ON DA HEAD wik 'em.. --WanYao 05:25, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  15. Kill - I dont think it would be a good idea to mess with the current AP system. So much is already needed to search, barricade, reload, kill zombies, etc. I also agree with the previous comments about keeping them for if/when fire is actually implemented.--Dr Doom86 06:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  16. I think this just hurts newbies more than anything. 1 to 3 doesn't seem like a lot, but they are the ones that suffer the most. But then, most ANY suggestion would cause them to suffer. "Slow" doesn't really make sense to me. I'd lean more towards combat penalties (sprayed in the face or a cloud or something).--Pesatyel 02:47, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  17. Kill 10% encumbrance? For something that doesn't really serve any useful purpose? No thanks. - Headshot Hal 07:39, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  18. Kill - i have been sprayed with a fire extinguisher before, and it did not slow me down, it just tasted funny --Scotw 07:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  19. Kill - arbitrary nerfing tool -- boxy talk • i 12:18 22 February 2008 (BST)
    Change - 3 AP is no big deal for 10% encumbrance ;). Make it a bit more powerful and I'd like it. Unsigned vote struck. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 20:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  20. Kill -- I can't imagine a zombie being affected by foam --Rick Best 17:52, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
  21. Kill/Change - It needs to do more to stop zombies. Ioncannon11 01:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
  22. Kill- Just a pointless toy. It has no real applications nor is it possible to freeze a human/zombie with a fire extinguisher.--Airborne88 09:58, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
  23. Kill- It will go unused, except by griefers. Who's gonna lug around a heavy extinguisher that's hardly worth its use? Hell, a barricade level does far more to slow zeds than this rig, and you don't have to go where the zombies are.--Kolechovski 04:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

  1. Spam - Before making a suggestion, think to yourself "What's the point?" if there is none then don't fucking make the suggestion. Would never work. There, I justified my vote.--/~Rakuen~\Talk Domo.gif I Still Love Grim 15:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)\
    My point is in the rationale. I also want a usable item themed for firefighters. --Aeon17x 23:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  2. Spam - DO NOT TOUCH MY F@%#ING AP!!! -- Jack S13 T! PC 17:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
    A major objective of the game is to make sure the other side wastes more AP than you do. --Aeon17x 23:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  3. Spam - How on earth would a fire extinguisher slow people? There are foam extinguishers that wouldnt do jack shit, water ones which also dont do stuff like that, and carbon dioxide extinguishers, which would also completely fail to do anything on the order of slowing a person down. Its just fucking stupid. There are a number of other reasons as well, im just too tired to list them. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 17:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  4. Spam - As Grim. --The Hierophant 17:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  5. Spam - water-cannon, maybe. Fire extinguisher, no. --Funt Solo QT Scotland flag.JPG 17:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  6. Spam - On a serious note, Iscariot says that fire extinguishers can be used for griefing. If this is ever implemented, the bounty lists would have to include fire extinguisher use on other survivors in their list of offenses that could get you a bounty. So their only use is for griefing, and that earns you a bounty? --Themanwhocares4 23:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
    Iscariot was commenting on how fire extinguishers don't kill and therefore don't get a bounty on Brainstock, but still present a negative effect on other survivors by reducing AP. There are, of course, other uses (slowing down advancing zombies, the aforementioned foam party, etc). --Aeon17x 00:07, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  7. Spam - Don't make an item with it's whole point being using AP, that is not the main objective of the game or either side any more than Headshot is a survivor weapon, it's not, the goal is to get as many people on your side as possible i.e. fight the infection or help it spread, wasting your AP to waste their AP doesn't do that.--Karekmaps?! 05:45, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  8. Spam - It's all been said ... - Bisfan 06:07, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  9. Spam - No way! --Ducis DuxSlothTalk 11:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  10. Spam - I have personally seen someone completely hosed with a bottle of AFFF, and although it was dangerous at the time, it was funny as hell. If you don't allow this, you are missing out. --mattamormino 17:49, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  11. Spam - As Grim. And, think about it like this. Most people log only a few times a day. For this idea to work, it would have to loose it's effect after half an hour or less (I get hit by foam, it's not going to stay for on me for a day)--Normal PhobicC 10:05, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  12. Spam - Although I like this idea, I don't like the idea of status effects. --Vandurn 13:53, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
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