Suggestion:20080414 Speargun

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	This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Undecided Suggestions.

20080414 Speargun

Tselita 23:00, 14 April 2008 (BST)

Suggestion type
New Weapon

Suggestion scope
Humans

Suggestion description

I'm suggesting a spear gun - it would be available only in junkyards and in mall sporting good stores - same search rate as any other sporting goods item.

Burden: 5% (slightly less cumbersome shotgun, and lighter, but not much)

Damage: 12

Accuracy: Base = 5%, With Basic Firearms = 30%

Shotgun Training can not be used with a Speargun. They are very similar, but there are differences so that advanced techniques with a shotgun (as opposed to basic firearms techniques) would not carry over to the speargun.

Possible flavored poses when you hit someone with it:

You impale PKer W with a spear for 12 damage.

You shishkabob Zombie X with a spear for 12 damage.

You skewer Trenchcoater Y with a spear for 12 damage.

You harpoon Survivor Z with a spear for 12 damage.

Benefits:

1) Nice Flavor

2) Slightly better damage than Shotgun

3) Lighter than Shotgun, Better base Accuracy and higher level accuracy than Flare guns (which makes sense since spear guns are meant to be weapons, while flare guns are not).

4) Makes sporting good stores at least somewhat useful - right now all you can find in sporting good stores are very, VERY crappy melee weapons.

5) If you let me have a speargun, I won't shoot you. Much. Unless I really want to.

6) It would be really funny to kill someone with a speargun.

Detriments:

1) Used up after one shot

2) Not as powerful as flare gun for one-shot gun

3) Dilutes finding ski poles, tennis rackets, golf clubs, pool cues, baseball bats, and fencing foils in sporting good stores. I know, it would be a great loss for us all, but we must persevere.

To those who wonder just how much damage a speargun can do, or how accurate they can be, keep in mind that they are designed to shoot accurately and with penetrating power taking into account the consistency of water and the fact that they are subjected to water pressure and drift. And yet they're still accurate and deadly enough to spear fish and larger marine animals. In addition, many spearguns are designed to also be able to shoot from land -into- the water and still retain accuracy. Here are some pictures of two types of spearguns:

As for those who ask what niche this would fill, currently there are three types of firearms - the pistol, the shotgun, and the flare gun. The pistol has many shots available, low damage (comparatively speaking to other firearms), the shotgun has higher damage, 2 shots available. The flare gun has highest damage but a VERY low accuracy and only 1 shot after which the gun is used up. There's an empty spot between shotgun and flare gun for a weapon which has the disposability and high damage of a flare (though not as high as a flare) and the accuracy of a shotgun (though not as accurate as a shotgun)... but mainly it's for flavor and making sporting good stores more useful. It's nice to have more variety of firearms, given the extremely limited choices humans have had with them for the past 3 years.

Addendum note: Since it wasn't clear to some from what I said above to some, I'm just elaborating - the search rate is 3% in sporting good stores, 1% in junkyards. - If I made a faux pas by adding this now, I apologize.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep - Author Keep --Tselita 23:01, 14 April 2008 (BST)
2. Keep - Sounds cool to me! --Hhal 00:03, 15 April 2008 (BST)
3. Keep - Good for comedy value, and will show up occasionally but won't be overused or overpowered. I like it. --Explodey 00:44, 15 April 2008 (BST)
4. Keep - The author is witty. The kill voters are not. 'Nuff said. --Themanwhocares4 00:54, 15 April 2008 (BST)
5. Keep - Hmmm.... looks like it might be a good weapon for people with only basic firearms training.--FXI 01:32, 15 April 2008 (BST)
6. Keep - Very cool, me like it alot!--Jamie Cantwel3 06:18, 15 April 2008 (BST)
7. Keep - Fun flavour. - Toejam 10:25, 15 April 2008 (BST)
8. Keep - I actualy like this. Apart from adding a new weapon that is useful without being hideously overpowered, it's also a bit funny. And I'm sure a large enougth sports store would sell fishing equipment, no matter how far away from the sea.--Seventythree^Talk 10:33, 15 April 2008 (BST)
9. Keep - as Themanwhocares4--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 13:25, 15 April 2008 (BST)
10. Keep - feck it: the game's becoming grindingly dull and a speargun would be fun. Can I also wear flippers and goggles? --Funt Solo ^QT 15:06, 15 April 2008 (BST)

    • I'll make a clothing suggestion hehe :) --Tselita 15:47, 15 April 2008 (BST)

11. Keep - Looks great. --Heretic144 16:21, 15 April 2008 (BST)
12. Keep - well I like the work here - we do need a few more weapons --Feon Kensai 17:18, 15 April 2008 (BST)
13. Keep - Because you included pictures in your suggestion.--Studoku ^W! 17:48, 15 April 2008 (BST)
14. Keep - I'm doing science going fishing and I'm still alive--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 18:49, 15 April 2008 (BST)
15. THAR SHE BLOWS --Karloth Vois ^RR 19:41, 15 April 2008 (BST)
16. YAR! IT BE MOBY DICK CAP'N!! - Nice! We needed something original and this is it. Definitely a keep from me. -- Cheese 19:47, 15 April 2008 (BST)
17. Weak keep - Carrying 20 spearguns will be funny... -- 
    •  Nevin McAvoy 
    •  (talk) 
    21:26, 15 April 2008 (BST)
18. Keep - sound like fun! I could harpoon some fish on the river kevan!--KF 21:28, 15 April 2008 (BST)
19. Keep - I wanna harpoon that dumb bounty hunter who keeps stalking me. --The Gecko PKer 04:06, 16 April 2008 (BST)
20. Keep - As funt.--Carnexhat 16:33, 16 April 2008 (BST)
21. Weak keep - as Viktor Suvorov --~~~~ [talk] 07:39, 17 April 2008 (BST)
22. Keep - Think I saw this used in a z movie.Gabdewulf 21:11, 18 April 2008 (BST).
23. Keep -Sounds like a plan..--Crazyloop09:58, 20 April 2008 (BST)
24. Keep - Reasonable in terms of realism and functionality, as well as being good for a handful of giggles, no doubt. To those who say that it is unreasonable to have a speargun when there is no water around, keep in mind that I live where it never snows, and I can buy a pair of skis or a snowboard at the local sporting goods store. You've obviously thought this through well and I'm very impressed. There's no real reason not to vote keep on this. --Daren Elaine 22:46, 21 April 2008 (BST)
25. Keep - Because JohnChow has never voted keep in his/her entire farking life and also tends to see the absolute worst of every suggestion, dispite it's merits. He/she also seems to have developed a case of I-can't-capitalize-to-save-my-effing-life syndrome(not as bad as some)... ...And this is a really cool suggestion. --BoboTalkClown 21:43, 22 April 2008 (BST)
26. Keep Because using talk:suggestions on a regular basis gives rounded suggestions like this. Or would you prefer sniper rifles, ak47's, rocket launchers and 90% accuracy suggestions?--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:53, 22 April 2008 (BST)
27. Keep - As Ross and Bobo. --UCFSD 16:54, 24 April 2008 (BST)
28. Keep - Awesome. --Kikashie ^ELT 05:43, 25 April 2008 (BST)
29. Keep - Sounds cool to me as long as it doesn't show up too often, you have my vote.--Lego minifig 05:18, 26 April 2008 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - Pointless. --The Hierophant 23:11, 14 April 2008 (BST)

   KillImage:Thisisu.JPG --Riseabove 23:39, 14 April 2008 (BST)

   Note - Inane vote removed. Remove image and justify vote. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:02, 15 April 2008 (BST)

   • Aw, well that wasn't nice. Except that rather than it just 'popping in my head' I did place it on Talk:Suggestion for about a week, during which there were multiple, lengthy comments and significant amounts of advice given.... and hrm I didn't see your name on any of the comments for it. Thank you for playing! I'm so cowed by your witty pictures. Not. --Tselita 23:48, 14 April 2008 (BST)

   yeah... it was nice. this suggestion deserves far, far worse treatment. --WanYao 23:53, 14 April 2008 (BST) Not sure if I'm allowed to do this, but non-author RE struck. --Hhal 00:02, 15 April 2008 (BST)

2. Kill - I don't imagine Malton as being on the ocean, these wouldn't really exist in sporting stores. --Pgunn 06:01, 15 April 2008 (BST)
3. Kill - As Pgunn.--Studoku ^W! 08:52, 15 April 2008 (BST)

   Kill - Sorry - it's the wrong flavour for me, as I've never imagined Malton to be next to the ocean. Cool idea, though - and just ignore the abusive gits - it's what they do. --Funt Solo ^QT 09:14, 15 April 2008 (BST)

4. Kill - yeah the flavour is all wrong for me too. And that vote of incomplete in the spam section just makes me thing of the backstreet boys...--xoxo 09:17, 15 April 2008 (BST)

   • Oh great now I have that song stuck in my head :) --Tselita 12:18, 15 April 2008 (BST)

5. Kill- Overpowered. -- BKM 16:59, 15 April 2008 (BST)
6. Kill - As the flavour points, and also did you notice how they are all multiples of five; to make the Flak Jacket calculations easier? -- The Lethal Trio ^{[Tlk|NTCS|RRF] U! E!} 17:25, 15 April 2008 (BST)
7. Kill - There are no oceans or bodies of water in Malton, so logically, this would not exist. Plus, I hate this suggestion.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  17:49, 15 April 2008 (BST)
8. Kill - out of genre it would be good for a snakes on a plane mmorpg though - Death7 19:42, 15 April 2008 (BST)

   • Never saw that movie. Ordered 'Flight of the Living Dead' on Netflix though --Tselita 05:19, 16 April 2008 (BST)

9. Out of genre. But would probably be good in a under water mmo if there was any. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:09, 15 April 2008 (BST)
10. Kill - I agree with those who state it is out of genre. --ZsL 21:03, 15 April 2008 (BST)
11. Kill - Too obscure to be cool, which isn't really a valid argument, but something tells me this is bad. --Ciaran Deckardson 21:51, 15 April 2008 (BST)
12. Kill - There are no bodies of water in Malton? - Grant (talk) 06:22, 16 April 2008 (BST)

    • 1) River Kevan. 2) There are no snow-covered hills but we have ski poles. --Tselita 07:27, 16 April 2008 (BST)

13. Kill - Too random. Rudiger Jones 23:20, 20 April 2008 (BST)
14. Kill - You're fucking stupid and I hate you. Why the hell would anyone even want this, given the preexisting options of the flare, shotgun, and pistol? I hope I said that you're stupid already, stupid. --אֲבִיּוֹנָה 23:14, 21 April 2008 (BST)

    Stop. You're making me blush with all the love you're showing me. I love you too. Don't hide your feelings my darling! --Tselita 23:17, 21 April 2008 (BST)

15. Kill 12 damage, are you all insane? Speargun is is more powerful than a .12 gueage... Ya, no.--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 04:26, 22 April 2008 (BST)

    Re - Well the balancing factor is that it's a one-time use. One could make the same argument about a flare gun being more powerful than a shotgun, but a steel harpoon going through a person seems to me to be something you're not as likely to recover from as easily. Also a shotgun will be able to actually do 2 shots (plus reload) so one fully loaded shotgun can do a max of 20 damage, while one 'fully loaded' speargun does a max of 12 (then can not be used again) --Tselita 04:50, 22 April 2008 (BST)

16. Kill -- How many spearguns do you expect were in Malton before the crisis? Two? Three, tops? Introduce this and there will be thousands of the things all over town within a few days.--Jiangyingzi 05:18, 22 April 2008 (BST)

    Re - About the same amount of spearguns were in Malton as there were ski poles. I once speared a fish in the River Kevan this big.... <--------->. Mmm mmm... tasty :) --Tselita 21:49, 22 April 2008 (BST)

    Where I live there are loads of rivers and lakes but no snow skiing...despite this, ski poles are easy to find in sporting good stores while spearguns are nonexistent. I think this may have to do with the relative popularity of skiing compared to spear fishing. Also, I still think this suggestion fails the "multiply by a billion" standard; why should thousands of spearguns start appearing all over Malton overnight?--Jiangyingzi 03:06, 23 April 2008 (BST)

    Continue in Suggestion:Discussion, Jiangyingzi --Tselita 04:34, 23 April 2008 (BST)

17. Kill - A speargun? For serious? --Druuuuu ^OcTRR 05:44, 23 April 2008 (BST)
18. Kill - It's basically a less powerful, more accurate flare gun, and since they'd serve the same basic purpose, I'm voting no.--SALurker 20:06, 25 April 2008 (BST)
19. Kill - no moor guns/weapons -- boxy ^{talk • i} 05:08 26 April 2008 (BST)
20. Kill - You know, I'm just unable to get excited about seeing this idea implemented in UD at all :(. --  ^Z_Z 05:29, 28 April 2008 (BST)
21. Kill - It's an impressive amount of Keep votes for a suggestion that simply doesn't belong. While you make a good point about ski poles, there are far more people that have and sell skiing equipment than there are people that have or sell spearguns. You're more likely to see machineguns and rifles, and those get spammed out of existance.--Actingupagain 16:59, 28 April 2008 (BST)

    • Re - Actually if it wasn't for the massive game imbalance that any full auto machine gun would cause, I'd probably have already suggested one. :) I think the massive game-breaking imbalance of machine guns and long-range rifles are why they gets spammed out of existence. Plus I've seen spearguns in most Target stores and several sporting goods stores in New York. I appreciate you at least acknowledging the ski pole thing though :) --Tselita 17:05, 28 April 2008 (BST)

22. Kill - I have 3 things against this. All of which are valid. 1) We seriously have enough weapons. I'm a total survivor and even I think that the shotgun and pistol (let's face it, the flaregun sucks as a firearm) are enough ranged weapons. 2) It doesn't quiet fit in flavor wise. I mean, Malton is hardly a city by the sea, or else how did the military quarantine them? However, I do dispute that automatics are easier to find. I think Britain is pretty damn harsh on their gun laws. But last of all 3) There isn't any point to it. The shotgun would do about the same Damage/AP as this would and be more efficient due to the fact you have to find a new speargun every two shots. Sorry, but I just can't call a keep on this (despite the fact I nomrally do) --Medico 15:37, 29 April 2008 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. spammo Call me Ishmael? Ermmm... totally inappropriate flavour. Next, please. --WanYao 23:48, 14 April 2008 (BST)

   Um....yeahhhh.... aren't you supposed to only Re to stuff if you're the author? Let me check the last suggestion you had. Because honestly, I've never seen you make one. How useful of you. --Tselita 00:04, 15 April 2008 (BST)

   A simple perusal of my user page will show the suggestions I made -- all of which made it to peer reviewed, btw. I don't spam millions of suggestions, though. I only suggest stuff that I try to make balanced, well thought out and in-genre suggestions. I don't suggest crap. Meanwhile, it seems to be you who can't valid criticism of your CRAPPY sauggestions, whinging that Riseabove flamed you, aaawh muffin!!! And, yup, I violated the RE: rule on purpose and in full cognisance -- just... to... piss... you... off. --WanYao 06:21, 15 April 2008 (BST)

2. Spam - Malton suddenly becomes the spearfishing capital of the world so we can have an unneeded weapon that's nothing more than a slightly normalized flare gun? Why does this suggestion need pictures of it and inane crap like "if you give me a speargun I won't shoot you"? Actually, don't answer any of those questions, I don't need any stupid author re:s about how other people are supposed to follow everything you write in Talk: Suggestions and act as the common sense you evidently lack. This suggestion is hot garbage and my first vote was in fact just like WanYao said. --Riseabove 03:25, 15 April 2008 (BST)

   You simply don't seem to be capable of making a vote without hurling insults, are you? Probably why your first vote was removed as being inane. And just as magically, spearfishing no longer is a sport. Okay lessee.. there are pictures so people know what it looks like. The one on the right is the type which would more likely be in a consumer sporting goods store (because that's where I found the picture online) As for the 'if you give me a speargun I won't shoot you' ... sorry, that one sentence was meant to be funny. --Tselita 04:33, 15 April 2008 (BST)

   Much like you don't seem to be able to make a suggestion without badgering half the people who don't think it's necessary. --Riseabove 05:48, 17 April 2008 (BST)

   To Discussion --Tselita 05:56, 17 April 2008 (BST)

3. Incomplete Search rates are not included. What does "same search rate as any other sporting goods item." mean? Also, what about AMMO search rates and encumberance? And as riseabove eludes to, spearguns are more commonly found on coastal areas and, so far as we now, Malton isn't one.--Pesatyel 04:28, 15 April 2008 (BST)

   The search rates are the same as other sporting goods. Based on the Wiki, that means Sporting Good Stores' base search rate is 3%. As for this being a coastal city or not, the reason it would be in a sporting goods store is because spearfishing is a sport. I haven't seen any evidence that Malton is a huge ski capital of the world either, and yet they have ski poles in the sporting goods stores. As for ammo search rates, there are none. The speargun comes with one harpoon, pre-loaded. That's why it's a one-time use gun (the type of speargun I'm referring to is the one that would more likely be in a sporting goods store - the one on the right; the one on the left is only as reference as to why spearguns are treated semi like firearms)... At least Pesatyel didn't respond to a vote by namecalling and insulting. :) Thanks. --Tselita 04:33, 15 April 2008 (BST)

   Ok, so your saying the search rate is 3%. Why didn't you say that in the suggestion? Is it ALSO 3% in the junkyard? And, in case ou were wondering, the baseball bat has a 20%, the knife is 3.3%, and all the others aren't even listed. So I'm not sure WHERE you got the "3%" in sporting goods for searching. So, instead of a shotgun, this is a slightly better flare gun.--Pesatyel 10:21, 15 April 2008 (BST)

   Go to Discussion --Tselita 12:19, 15 April 2008 (BST)

4. Spam - Incomplete suggestion. There is no need for new guns. Death to the unbelievers, etc... --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 01:21, 19 April 2008 (BST)