Suggestion:20080804 Scent Death and Hordes

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20080804 Scent Death and Hordes

SIM Core Map.png Swiers 18:52, 4 August 2008 (BST)

Suggestion type
improvement

Suggestion scope
Scent Death

Suggestion description

Introduction

If you haven't used Scent Death a fair bit, this suggestion may not make sense. Even if you have, the 'math' may seem complex. If you have questions or doubts that would affect your vote, please use the talk page before voting.

Purpose

The basic point is to give zombies a way to actively gain information about what hordes have large numbers of members in their area, and where. This would hopefully make it more likely that feral zombies could and would make the effort to find and join a horde. Currently it is very easy for a lone survivor to tell what survivor groups are active in their area by scouting around, but much, much harder for zombies to do the same. In fact, unless some other zombie performs an action that lets you see their profile (which you have no control over) you have no way of knowing as a zombie what (if any) zombie groups are active in the area. Survivors at least can use DNA scanners to see zombie profiles, which has the ironic effect that you can do more to find out where zombie groups are as a survivor than as a zombie.

Mechanics

Currently, when using Scent Death, one of the pieces of information you get (or more often, fail to get) is where nearby members of your own horde are. The exact mechanics are unclear, but generally it either tells you no members are nearby, or that "a few" members are within a few blocks, with directions to that block, or the building name if its within sight on the mini map. This suggestion extends that effect to also give a similar report about hordes other than your own (or just SOME report, if you are not in a horde).

In addition to the current "nearby members of your horde" report, there would be a report of what horde had the largest concentration of zombies nearby, and where. To determine this, the server would "look" at each block in range and determine which(s) horde had the most zombies there, checking how many that was. You would then get directions to the block with the most zombies from a single horde, and would be told what horde was there. Ties would be broken by choosing the nearest block(s) first, then by picking at random.

For an example, look at the table below. It shows an example zombie population distribution. This assumes that the "range" is only 1 block, although it seems likely the current system has a longer range than that, likely 5 blocks. The range for this effect need not be 5 blocks; a shorter range would reduce the server overhead, although use of scent death is not a common action.

(0,0) player location
4 zombies from MotA 		(1,0)
3 zombies from RRF
3 zombies from MOB
(0,1)
4 zombies from MOB
2 zombies from FU 		(1,1)
3 zombies from FU
2 zombies from RRF

In this case, the player would be told something along the lines of "You smell 4 zombies from the MotA horde here." note- the actual report would likely be more vauge in numbers, along the lines of "You detect the scent of several MotA zombies here." This is already done for reports about your own horde.
Why is the player told about the 4 MotA zombies?

  • While there are 6 zombies total at (1,0) and (1,1) less than 4 are from any single horde
  • While the RRF and FU both have 5 zombies in range, they do not have 4 or more zombies at any single location.
  • MOB has 7 total zombies in range, but the largest groupings are of 4 zombies from the same horde in one place, and that's what this reports.
  • While MOB also has 4 zombies in one location within range, the group of 4 MotA zombies is closer to the player location.

Voting Section

Voting Rules
Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped.
# justification ~~~~

Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.


Keep Votes

  1. Keep - help the zombies, don't just put them in a home. --Sir Bob Fortune RR 19:50, 4 August 2008 (BST)
  2. Keep Can't have no fun if they're all on their own. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 19:58, 4 August 2008 (BST)
  3. keep - It could make the game better, and I can't imagine it making the game worse! Techercizer (Food) (TSoE) 20:02, 4 August 2008 (BST)
  4. Author's vote. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 20:02, 4 August 2008 (BST)
  5. Do I really need to leave a reason as to why I'm voting keep? It's pointless, just to leave a reason...'cause this helps the zombies. Oh wait...I just left a reason. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 20:22, 4 August 2008 (BST)
  6. Keep - I approve. --Zombie in Pajamas 20:38, 4 August 2008 (BST)
  7. Keep - While this may lead to some false detects near revive points ("3 U.S. Army Infantry zombies detected in A Cemetery"), it's overall a fine idea. Keep it up, Swiers, you're really improving the signal-to-noise ratio here in suggestion land.--Jiangyingzi 21:47, 4 August 2008 (BST)
    Such "false detect" are intentional and unavoidable; there's no difference between a horde oz zombies and a group of survivors that all got killed. Anyhow, if the largest horde in the area is composed of dead survivors at a revive point, that's still useful info for a zombie, as it may be a clue to move to a new area if you want any food. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 04:50, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  8. Keep - It helps zombies, and zombies make this game fun.--William Told 21:52, 4 August 2008 (BST)
  9. Keep - It helps zombies in a way that is not unbalanced, my only concern is with these additional equations it may cause additional server load. --Karec 22:27, 4 August 2008 (BST)
    That's an issue I'd like to address on the talk page, but to be brief, I suspect that normal scent death use is a tiny faction of current server overhead, and this would only increase that small factionto a slightly bigger small fraction. However, it might be an issue when it comes to potential DDOS attacks. Scetn Death is probably already a very good tool for making such attacks... SIM Core Map.png Swiers 04:50, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  10. Keep - The text of the suggestion is my justification! ;) Or, ss everyone else above. --WanYao 22:32, 4 August 2008 (BST)
  11. Keep - I'm sold, it sounds great.--'BPTmz 22:58, 4 August 2008 (BST)
  12. Keep - I've been with this since the beginning, just waiting for it to finish taking shape. Good job swiers, and everyone else. - Tylerisfat 01:29, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  13. Keep - As above.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  02:38, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  14. Keep - As above.--Zombie Lord 02:56, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  15. Keep - Like it. --Papa Moloch 02:59, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  16. Unusual Keep - I don't have Scent Death, nor am I a zombie in a horde. Still, I like it. I am worried about the possible human spy element of it, though. --Blake Firedancer T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T. 04:26, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  17. After getting clarification in the discussion page, seems like a good idea.--Pesatyel 05:08, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  18. Keep - I like this. -- Cheese 11:40, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  19. Keep - I like this, it allows easier coordination for ferals. --drawde DORIS•Red Rum•Arrf!•I Know Nothing! 11:49, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  20. Keeep' - Makes the skill so much more useable. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 13:40, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  21. Keep - fantastic from a feral point of view -- Necrodeus T M! 16:06, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  22. Unusual Keep - I like where this suggestion is going. --Private Mark 21:19, 5 August 2008 (BST)
  23. CNR - As above. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:29, 6 August 2008 (BST)
  24. KEEP - I am a zombie and i think this would help a little, cus i mean it can't relly hurt ANYONE:-P--Blahd 00:16, 7 August 2008 (BST)
  25. Keep - after clarification (see Kill section). --Funt Solo QT Scotland flag.JPG 03:49, 7 August 2008 (BST)
  26. Keep - Not bad; hope it doesn't cause spam. Ioncannon11 20:20, 7 August 2008 (BST)
  27. Keep - I love this. Makes scent death useful. --BoboTalkClown 00:20, 11 August 2008 (BST)
  28. Keep (-: --Airborne88Zzz1.JPGT|Z.Quiz|PSS 20:07, 14 August 2008 (BST)
  29. keep - thats a keep from me.--Jamie Cantwel3 TalkAll glory to the Hypnotoad! 00:07, 15 August 2008 (BST)
  30. Keep Because Everyone else is. --Nny The Person 07:04, 17 August 2008 (BST)
  31. Keep - I like it, can't tell you how many times on my feral zombie I break in a building and wonder what other zombie groups are chillin with me.--Zoey Zarg 05:57, 18 August 2008 (BST)


Kill Votes

  1. Kill - What a nice way to make Scent Death that much better of a survivor skill.--Karekmaps?! 03:52, 5 August 2008 (BST)
    The benefit to ferals vastly outweighs the benefit to survivors. I think http://sim.urbandead.info/SIM_stats.php quite well demonstrates that survivors are NOT putting forth effort to use Scent Death in any intelligence gathering capacity. Moreover, a zombie group that cared about not being detected in this fashion could easily avoid it. Either they could fan out so there is not a concentration of them, or they could change their group entries so each one was unique, but still identified the group they are in. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 04:50, 5 August 2008 (BST)
    Makes me wonder which game you've been playing. Scent Death isn't any more beneficial to ferals in this case, it's irrelevant information which zombies are in which groups when they aren't in your own. You're suggesting to preserve anonimity zombies need to lose all bonuses they gain from size and cooperation, and you don't see a problem with that?--Karekmaps?! 05:36, 5 August 2008 (BST)
    Kill/Incomplete - it isn't clear what exactly you're suggesting. Your bullet point mentions a total of five zombies at (1,0), but that box lists six zombies (three each from two hordes). Also, you're saying that the actual mechanic won't give actual numbers, but most of your suggestion deals with actual numbers. Is it supposed to work with a range of 1, for a 9-cell neighborhood read-out, or does it just return info. for four blocks? In the current form, it's all too unclear for me to commit a Keep vote, although the core idea seems sound, inventive and positive. --Funt Solo QT Scotland flag.JPG 18:05, 6 August 2008 (BST)
    Bullet point number fixed. It made no difference to the suggestion mechanics / report result. The REPORT would not give actual numbers (it would use the same terms current scent death reports do for how many zombies from your own horde are present) but obviously the server side code must use numbers, and that is why they are detailed. The proposed range is not 1 block. I suggest would be the same as the current "horde detection" range, which afaik only Kevan knows (I'm guessing its five blocks), although I note he could tweak it as needed to decrease server overhead. Its worth noting that a 1 block range does not always cover 9 blocks; if you are standing in (0,0) as in my example the 1 block range covers only 4 blocks. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 21:15, 6 August 2008 (BST)
    Thanks for clarifying - vote changed due to that. --Funt Solo QT Scotland flag.JPG 03:49, 7 August 2008 (BST)
  2. Kill - Makes the skill a great scouting tool for mrh cows. I don't think the zombie benefit is great enough to balance that, given that it picks up on small groupings of a single horde. Only seeing larger groups (say 15 or more) congregated would be better, IMO -- boxy talk • i 06:57 9 August 2008 (BST)
    How do you figure it improves the utility for mrh cows? Scent Death is already pretty much ideal for figuring out where revive points and active sieges are (simplely compare the SD map to a normal map and use some common sense)- this just lets you know one of the groups involved. If that's a survivor group- well, no benefit to the mrhs, unless maybe they want to make a revive request on an already over-clogged revive que. If its a zombie groups, its still not much help to the mrhs, but its very nice recruiting info for zombies. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 04:32, 15 August 2008 (BST)


Spam/Dupe Votes

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